Good. Great. Well, welcome to Needham & Company's 27th Annual Growth Conference. I'm Ryan Koontz. I cover the communications and networking sectors here on the equity research team. Really happy to be joined today by Kaltura, a provider of enterprise video platforms. We are joined today by CEO Ron Yekutiel and CFO John Doherty. Welcome, gentlemen.
Good morning. Thank you for having us.
Sure. Our pleasure. Let's start with maybe unpacking some of the great progress you've made in 2024 with the business, shoring it up, reaching profitability. Ron, you want to unpack that for us?
Yeah, happy to do that, and obviously, we're going to talk about through Q3. The Q4 is behind us, and we'll try to stick to that, but first of all, again, thank you for coming, and good to see you all, and hopefully a pleasant and safe new year for everybody and a good year ahead. It's been an interesting journey. We're just talking about that for Kaltura, right? It's post-COVID for the entire video industry has been tough. There's been a lot of corrections that have ensued, starting from kind of overbuying of some video stuff that had happened throughout 2021, and there were reduced demands and budgets because of the macro situation in 2022, 2023, 2024, but also specifically for a company like us in small cap, mid cap.
It's been hurt more than the large cap and even less liquidity because investors that were there before were extremely bullish on the company and were not interested in selling, and here we are in the end of 2024, which we're starting to see the rebound, I believe, and what things can and should regress back to the mean, and things do regress back to the mean. It's not the end for video. It's the beginning. A lot of great things happening, so part of what we've seen throughout this year, and we kind of expected that to be the case in the second half of 2024, and again, speaking about quarter three, was a second sequential quarter of year-over-year growth, sequential and year-over-year growth in new bookings, so new bookings had come down prior to that on a year-over-year basis, and also in some cases sequentially.
In Q2 and in Q3, they picked up both sequentially and year-over-year. The reason that happened was that budgets were starting to come back. People were starting to think less myopically about the future. Right after COVID, they were just thinking about how they could minimize costs and minimize risk around moving to other vendors. Come the second half of 2024, the thought was, well, we actually do want to consolidate vendors, and Kaltura, we'll talk more about that, is the ideal consolidator. We run deep and we run wide, and we enable more products and more use cases than others. By shifting to Kaltura, not only do you get a better product, you also get less total cost of ownership in the mid to long term. People were ready to make that switch.
The other thing is we had matured our recent additions to our product mix, our event platform, our Virtual Classroom, things that we had brought to market after 2020, and when they started hitting all four cylinders, we started to get more, so the combination of the market together with our leadership in the market had enabled booking to start pulling up. The second piece is gross retention, which had come to a very low point for us in 2023. We had shared that this gross retention went down from high 80s to mid 80s and that it was on its way throughout the year to improve back into the high 80s, and we've seen that in the second and the third, in fact, in the first quarter as well.
And so that's happening in part because of less price pressures and in part because we had significant churns coming after COVID for events that had moved back from virtual to physical. And you can't bleed twice. Once the big events of that nature had churned, the rest of it was doing pretty well. And we had since moved dramatically from very large events to a set of thousands and hundreds of events, smaller events for companies. So that's enabled. So bookings better, gross retention's better. So net bookings is in a better spot, and that's pulling up revenue. Maybe I'll leave John to say a couple of words about top line and bottom line because that's been reaccelerating or coming back to being generating profits.
Yeah, please.
Yeah, all of that's translated into an improving revenue and adjusted EBITDA profile. As we said on the third quarter call, we were a bit more optimistic about where the business is headed. So 2024 and what we've achieved to date kind of has pointed us in that direction. And we're very much going to continue our focus on being a revenue growth and a profitability story. And we think we're set up well for closing out the year as well as heading into 2025.
Great.
And Ron, the big drivers there are around consolidation of platforms, different vendors, content sharing. Can you kind of walk us through your value prop there that you really pound with your customers?
Kaltura is a very API-driven business. We've built everything from the APIs up into products. Not to say that we are selling APIs, just we use Lego as an analogy, and they sell planes and cars and houses out of Lego, not just a Lego bag of Legos. Everything is very, very flexible and easy to integrate and easy to customize and easy to extend and easy to enhance. That enables us to go deep into workflows. When you look at other companies, they just offer video for the sake of video. We power learning, power marketing, power sales in a very tight way. The other thing is that we go wide so that we enable multiple use cases. We power both employee experience and customer experience for both learning and training and marketing and sales.
And increasingly, people replace multiple products with Kaltura to power multiple use cases. We have a stat, obviously, average ARR per customer has always gone up. By the way, it is now at about $200,000 per customer. If you look at other companies in our industry, like a Vimeo, their enterprise business is a tenth of that. The average is $20,000. And Brightcove or all the other ones in 2024, it's the highest average ARR per customer, but it's been going up. And we said Q3 was the highest ever as well. And the other part is we track how many, on average, products and use cases our customers use or consume. And that's been going up and to the right. So people buy more, consume more. So to your point, yes, consolidation is important.
And the fact that sometimes we start from internal use case, move external, sometimes we start external, move internal, but we command the whole thing. We'll talk more about AI, but I think a big driver, and it not really hit the top line in 2024, but it will hit the top line in 2025 is AI. But we'll go down that track as well.
Definitely. I mean, looking again back over the last year or so, which particular verticals do you think have been most positive, interesting, kind of really turned up for you?
So the value of Kaltura is really in part because we're so horizontal, in that we're pretty diversified. We cater for both media companies and enterprises of different types and sorts across technology and regulated industries, professional services, and commercial. And we also cater to the education market. And that diversification provided a good hedge in the past for various different growth rates. I'd say as of recent, so because we were busy to be an end company and to make sure that we grow our revenue as well as profitability, we were also selective, especially in these tough years. And where do we get the most bang for the buck for the bottom line perspective and the combination of growth and profitability? So we took our foot off the gas a bit on media and telecom and on education.
Media and telecom because it is less profitable on a gross profit, gross margin level, and also longer cycles. But also post-COVID, that market kind of slowed down even further with new initiatives. And it had since come back. We'll talk about that. But that's one, we took our foot off the gas a bit. And in education, again, the feeling was that from a TAM perspective, total market potential, that is less than enterprise, which is really the main area that we had focused. And within enterprise, I would highlight both regulated industries, banks, insurance companies, government, healthcare, pharma, and the second being technology. So I'd say the ones that are in broad sense, if you look at Q3, media and telecom had come down 4% year over year, where EE&T had gone up 4% year over year. It's not necessarily going to go up forever that.
Obviously, we think everything is going to pull back up and go north, but it's still going to have EE&T leading more so than M&T because of the recent investment cycle up until the new stuff picking up, and then it's going to turn over. We do think it's going to be led by regulated and by tech more so than others, but we are now coming to invest more also in education and the rest.
You have some great brands, right? Some that have signed up to you guys.
Oh, yeah, 100%. I mean, we in each one of the different areas we're at, we have the gold emblem customers. I mean, if you look at, let's start with tech, and we have Amazon and AWS within. We got Oracle and SAP and Salesforce and NVIDIA and Adobe and you name it, some of the biggest. And the reason I pick a few of these is some of them are more EX and some of them are more CX. And we also in some of recent wins. So if you look at the last few quarters that we had brought in Salesforce and Adobe and others, so we're able to land with the external use case with companies that are experts in that as well as otherwise. But that's just tech.
If you look at regulated, you got the five largest U.S. banks with Bank of America, Merrill Lynch, Citibank, Goldman, J.P. Morgan , Wells Fargo, Goldman Sachs, HSBC, and the same with each one of the different sectors we're at, so yeah, I think that is, again, in our industry, a lot of folks are talking the talk about large enterprise, where many of them have done departmental sales or SMB or SME in less the larger enterprises, and we had been born in the large enterprise and have always mastered it, given the unique selling proposition of the APIs, of the horizontality of the enterprise ability of what we do, and we'll talk more about analytics and AI, so that enables us to dominate and continue and grow.
We'll talk later about the growth potential, but there's a lot of white space within our existing customers to grow into.
And how about the macros? Have been difficult? I mean, the U.S., I imagine it's been okay?
It's been better and increasingly better. Again, we expected that to be the case. And you mentioned the U.S., yes, in the U.S., but Europe had rebounded. Again, Q3, there was a significant nice pop coming from Europe as well. And we're seeing that part of the world growing. We're still kind of from a booking perspective, kind of 70-30 in favor of North America compared to Europe. It is not the larger piece of our business, but that piece of the business is jumping very nicely. And we expect that to continue to be the case. And we're definitely global. We have Asia-Pac, less of Latin America. But bear in mind that in the good years, we had more salespeople. We have taken it back by about 25%. And now that we are back to being profitable and reaccelerating growth, we could start putting more people to play.
And given the halo effect of the customers that we have, we could do a lot more. And speaking about customers, used to have been that our revenue or that our booking was about 50-50 between new logos and existing. And then in recent years, given the hardship of these years, it had moved to more 75-25 in favor of upsells because new folks that hadn't worked with you would rather stick to their existing vendors and just reduce price. And even if we are expecting that to grow. So we have growth both in NDR, which we could talk more about in retention, but also growth in new logos. So it's exciting.
Let's talk about the NDR, the retention pop back up north of 100% again. What's behind that?
So it was 106 pre-COVID at 2019. It was also 119 at the height of COVID, but it was 106 prior to COVID. And then it had come down three quarters prior to last Q3, prior to last reported quarter to 98%. And then it started picking up. Now, first of all, we said that that was going to happen because NDR is a lagging indicator. We have talked about gross retention, and we've seen the jump from mid-80s% to high-80s%, which we had anticipated. And so the combination of higher bookings and upsells and better gross retention had yielded the better NDR, and that had taken it back to 101%. We expect more of that good stuff to come around.
When you look into the future, look, if you compare to pre-COVID, when we were again at 106, we didn't have all the suite of products for CX. We didn't have our event platform. And so the average revenue per customer had been materially lower, and it had since grown and grown and grown and grown by a vast number. So we believe that we're going to be able to continue to push that number up, whether it is to the exact number that was before, high or lower. We're not going to provide guidance here, but we think there's a lot of upside.
That's great. Great to hear. Just one other word on price, because we have to mention, you mentioned macro. Also on pricing, we've seen a little bit more price competition in the education space. We've had opportunities to increase pricing across some of the other sectors that we focused on. So it's worth noting.
Literally, we reported that last quarter that we have a certain set automatic renewal increase in price and whatever. Last quarter Q3 that we reported, we generated three times the new booking that we did than the year before just from automatic price renewals. It wasn't because our business is three times bigger. We all know the growth rates of the business. That means that we're not only able to hold and provide better NDR than all the other companies, we're able to sell back up.
Fantastic. Let's shift gears and talk about innovation a little bit. Some of the things you're delivering, you delivered in 2024 in terms of filling out the portfolio and how should we think about new features coming in 2025 and your portfolio there?
Kaltura has always innovated faster because of that Lego approach that we had built. From the ground up, everything is API-driven, which enabled us to not only add capabilities in a scalable manner, but also assemble them into products and introduce them into multiple products simultaneously. Last year was not different. We had innovated across a variety of different areas. We had, if you look at the video lifecycle from content creation capabilities like Greenr oom effects and studios to authoring stuff through content management with much more advanced tools and capabilities around templating, et cetera, to engagement. We had more gamification. We had more tools that enable, and again, we'll get to AI capabilities in a second, which very much touched on that, and distribution. Across the entire gamut and added it into all of our products.
We also further solidified our platform and made it continuously stronger to fit greater and greater scale and greater security and greater compliance. And we, for example, launched more local regional clouds running on AWS. So that would enable GDPR requests around different areas and security and stuff. So a lot of stuff around different areas. The part obviously I want to highlight more so is AI, which is also an exciting area, obviously, as we hit 2025. And the big opportunity there again is to be able to connect content creation and content distribution into one virtuous cycle that connects it all together, into this flywheel where the customer is in the center and you're creating videos that are individually hyper-personalized and hyper-contextualized for the individual need. And so if you look at the history of our company, we started from content management.
We were top right quadrant in Gartner, number one company five years in a row in content management. But then we moved into content creation. And then now we're moving into hyper-personalized content creation where every content is created on the fly for individuals. So keep in mind education. We started from managing all the content, moved into creating tools for them to generate the content, and now using our Class Genie, automatic upon request or upon proactively initiating, pushing for you a hyper-engaging experience that's immersive in part video and part text and part flashcards with graphics that provide you the exact information you need.
So, for those of us who remember Khan Academy, there was this initiative that you would have a set amount of videos and a tree-like structure, and you would be recommended of certain videos for your next course or your next interest, depending on your grades, depending on your interests, depending on whatever. Now you don't need to prepare that tree. It's created on the fly. So we take all the content we're sitting on this treasure trove.
The education market.
Education, for example, but not only corporate learning as well, reskilling, upskilling. People need to move around. So we sit on all the content of half of the R1 schools in the U.S. We sit on all the content of 28% of the Fortune 100. We sit on all the content of large media companies. And so what we've done is we've atomized it, and we've enabled this content to be repurposed in a way that is then delivered as new clips for the exact need connected into the workflow of individuals. So it completely changes the concept of content in a way that is, A, taking out content that had been stale and bringing it in front of people. Consider universities sitting on a ton of content. Nobody knows where to look for it. Nobody knows where to find it.
You have a very specific question, and we know where the hot topic is down to the second, and to put it together in a way that's the most engaging way, and now you get the exact answer for your question, and it recommends the next question, and it automatically generates the quiz for you with the questions, and it's connected to your grade book. The whole thing is like this tutor that enables you to learn on the fly exactly what you want to learn. We're doing two things in AI. I mean, the more basic one is text in, text out, or video in, text out, but generating. It's things like the quizzes automatically generated. It's transcription that we now do ourselves based on Whisper, which is AI-based as opposed to third parties.
It is emails sent out, a bunch of different things before, during, after events with AI. But the more interesting part is where video is generated, and it's going to cause for a lot more video to be created, a lot more video to be consumed, a lot more ROI, and it could completely erase also other adjacent markets like content production, so consider what large organizations are spending to produce content, and they're producing it usually for a video that's high resolution, but it's for the same video for everybody. It's not hyper-personalized, and if you could take off that cost and give them a tool that does this on the fly for the right people in the right time in their CX journey or in their EX journey, employees and customers, and then connect that to the flywheel, then that completely changes everything.
So that's why we feel very good that we're not only going to revert back to the mean, and we've all got to go back to finance. We've been a Rule of 30 company before COVID, but we could hopefully come back and do even better given where the world's gone because what we have now, which we didn't have before, is a lot more around product portfolio because we expanded into events and into the CX journey, and we're consolidating both, but we're also coming with AI, which is really exciting.
Is that tech stack all internal, open source, licensed, partners?
It's a good question to ask because.
How do you pull that stack together so effectively here?
Yeah, it's a good question to ask because historically, when we started off, we did release under an open source license part of our backend. We use the Affero GPL license, AGPL. And so basically, if somebody wants to use it, they need to contribute back what they did. But that was a subset of our backend, not the applications on the front. And since we haven't added certain things, but we were the first and only open source community for video management at the time with hundreds of thousands of things. In fact, some very prominent websites today use open source stuff to power and distribute and engage with a lot of videos using Kaltura. But since it's not open source, but it's a very flexible stack that is API-based, we do have more than 120 partners that are integrated because it's easy to do so. So it's exciting.
Excellent. John, can you walk us through a typical customer contract, sales cycle all the way through contract, how long they are, terms, renewals?
Yeah, sure.
I'd say though, we don't necessarily have typical contracts like that. It depends on the part of our business. If you talk about the enterprise side of the business, that's one thing. The M&T side of the business is another. Those contracts tend to be, the sales cycle tends to be longer. The deployment tends to be longer. They certainly tend to stay with us longer because they're locked in. You think Vodafone when we talk about logos associated with that type of a contract. On the enterprise side, a bit of a shorter sales cycle, say 6 to 12 months, a little bit of a shorter deployment, probably about 6 months or so, and contracts that are typically 2 to 3 years. And generally, we do a pretty good job of renewing them. Also, they tend to be usage-based as well.
Yeah. Can you walk usage-based?
Interesting.
And then, how about the upsell process when you go back and customers' usage is up or add a new module?
Yeah, look, Kaltura has always done a really good job at managing their customer base. Certainly, and Ron knows this. One of the things that I was very focused on when I came onto the business. I joined in February for those of you that don't know. So been here, whatever that is, 10, 11 months. There's a tremendous amount of upside for the business. Typically, the business may sell a certain product set that could provide a service for the internal part of a business. Ultimately, there are opportunities to upsell and do things on the MarCom side, which could be more external and vice versa. So we've been really, really focused on generating as much revenue from our existing customers as possible. And I think you've seen that in early days and the results we've thrown out over the last couple of quarters.
Yeah, definitely. And Ron, on the streaming side, you've talked about M&T, you've re-entered a little bit. How do you think about that space overall going forward in media?
It's a good space. We've been growing. I mean, the good thing about media and telecom is that quite often when you hit the right deal, it grows organically. Take Vodafone. We started with one country. We're with nine. We're powering millions of households, and it's been growing steadily.
It's a mid-market though, isn't it? Like globally fragmented?
It is to some extent, so let's go back to what we do, which is a bit different than some of the other folks doing media and telecom. So years ago, up until 2014, we were what's called kind of an OVP, online video platform, like Brightcove and like others. But really what it did, it kind of offered YouTube-like capabilities around a player for delivery, which wasn't really TV experiences. It was all online, whether it's second screen or it's not the number one thing that a Disney would care for or for any cable company would care for. When we moved in 2014 to full-on television, it's because we saw these markets converging, and we used to have been NDS or Cisco or Ericsson, which is dedicated hardware and non-cloud-based and non-mobile device-based, had become over the top.
And in fact, every company had become somewhat of a media company. What's Red Bull? Is it media? Is it marketing? What's National Geographic? Is it education? Is it marketing? Every company is a media company. And the technology became very similar. And so we completed what we needed. We were more short form, ad based, and we moved into long form, more subscription based. And so then we full-on launched the TV. Ever since, the bigger part of our business and the one we focus on is TV-grade deliveries, which could be either tier one, tier two large telcos or large media companies. And there's easily a thousand of these to be had because media security is as important as food security.
Governments nowadays, where the world is going, where it's gone, are not going to outsource their media to a different country to provide the news or to provide entertainment to the people in that country. So every single country has at least four or five large assets, if not a lot more, depending on the country, which would be either telcos or quad play, triple play, whatever it is that need technology. And so what happened there was initially, we invested more in it, but it wasn't yet profitable. This year is already turning and becoming profitable as a business if you take it all the way down a contribution margin, which is great. And we're able because of that to refuel and invest more.
It also went quieter for a certain period because a lot of these very big projects, they weren't ready to invest more right after COVID. Now we're seeing it, and what's happening is there's a lot of TV initiatives that are still using the IPTV systems and that are old and that are legacy, that are not maximizing revenue opportunities and are not offering the nimbleness that's required, and the devices are falling apart, and they want to move to an Android TV-based, over-the-top-based delivery that's cheaper on the device side with a replacement cycle. With that replacement cycle, here we go. This is where Kaltura comes in because we are doing some of the best. I mean, this is Bouygues Telecom. This is O2 and Telenor. These are big, big assets, and Vodafone is the coveted prize.
And we've been there for 10-plus years, celebrated recently and going strong and continue to grow. And so people do come back to Kaltura. So there is absolute opportunity. AI there as well for recommendation and for workflow management around publishing that's reducing costs and increasing revenue opportunity, not before even talking about connected TV. And that could be an add-on to what it is that we do. It's just a matter of playing the symphony smart in growth versus profitability. And you can't invest in everything at any given time. You got to be focused. And focus means what you invest, what you invest a bit less of. And there's been some setback in how much we've invested in that, but there's now rejuvenated. And from a go-to-market perspective, we don't need to build much more.
We just need we can put more salespeople and sell more, and we've already built it, and by the way, last point about media and telecom, used to have been that we were mainly the backend system. We have since built our frontend set of solutions, and there are companies out there that are using both, and so the pie is bigger.
Great. Excellent. Let's talk about competition a little bit and what your most recent view of the landscape is and maybe some commentary on the Brightcove takeout, where you think that's going?
Yeah, I wasn't surprised about Brightcove going out. They've been there for a long haul, and it's been kind of stuck there for a while insofar as enterprise value, far before the whole discussion around the industry situation. And so I congratulate them for the transaction and wishing Bending Spoons well. And we do expect this industry to continue to consolidate. There's too many players out there. There's no need for that. Kaltura is the leading vendor to consolidate because we run deepest and we run widest. So we are able to add elements and technology and grow, which we've demonstrated. And we're also able to cater to all these different industries with all these different products. And so that's a natural player to grow. And this is why we've been doing better and growing when others have not.
So I think that actually increases the opportunity because there's even more business to be had around the consolidation of this space. And I think Kaltura becomes even more attractive in a situation like this. Otherwise, we haven't seen any other major change. But what do you want to add on consolidation?
Yeah, no, I mean, we pretty much, I don't want to say we predicted this, but it's not that we didn't expect it. We've been talking about the market needing to consolidate for some time now, certainly since I've been part of Kaltura. So no surprise there. The only thing, if you do have money in Brightcove, when you get it back, certainly we welcome it in Kaltura. So from a marketing perspective, if not, if you're not investing in Kaltura, you can start now and then just top it off when you get the money back from Brightcove. Our growth profile has been better than theirs.
I like it. And Ron, as you get back into growth and if you set some growth targets, what parts of the business are you most excited about investing in, reinvesting in, and driving that growth and creating that flywheel?
The good news is that we don't need to have a revolution here. It's not even evolution. We're already on that path. We're seeing the booking go up. We're seeing net dollar retention. We're seeing gross retention. So I think we are already in the rearview mirror, most of what we needed to have done. We needed to have continued to adjust our spend after a certain investment cycle, which we've done, and continue to bank on the new products that we've done over the last few years and together with the consolidation story and now with AI. So really for us, as we look into the future, the current market, and I mentioned kind of alluded to that earlier, we looked into the white space opportunity of our existing customer base.
And that could grow by another 2.5x based on our assumptions for the existing product sets that we have based on other vendors or other opportunities today. So it could be 3.5x what it is now. So just selling them more, consolidating more, and as the markets move to be more efficient and customers move to consolidate vendors, we think that's completely doable. So we don't need to do an awful lot if we add that together with AI. But that being said, we've added industries over the years. We weren't born in all these, and we were adding them. And just to give you another example, other than media and education, is banking, where we sold to all these big banks and then worked with Bank of America on launching a solution for wealth managers that would go in a highly compliant way to create and deliver them videos.
It's not yet hyper-personalized. Now it's going to become hyper-personalized. But that in itself doubled that account and more. And these are multi-million-dollar-a-year accounts. And we've always had a growing number of these large accounts. And we can now replicate and sell and do that with more banks. So do we envisage not only expanding and reinvesting, as I mentioned, in media and in education now that we are profitable and growing and have the ability to do both, but to continue to go down the track with potentially further solutions for healthcare around patient management and around remote health for government, around smart cities and around defense? We have contracts, as it were, around these types of topics. And we could go deeper even with existing customers. And I could think of a few other ones that make sense.
So this is, again, if things were well, when we IPO'd the company and we're growing at a certain level and the industry was doing at a certain level, the plan was to further verticalize our business and build more tailored solutions and to go way deep and to grow each one of them into a multi-hundreds of millions of business. So there's a huge opportunity, but it's a crawl, walk, run. And we are very much humbled by the last few years. And I think we've always been pragmatic. We've never over-promised. I think we've generally delivered based on what we said things are going to be.
We definitely were not happy and not content in any way with the results in recent years, but we find some solace in being better than the other players in this industry and understanding that we have a sustainable competitive advantage and that we have fallen forward, not backward in building all these things that are now enabling us not only to continue to do better, but to rebound even faster because we now have all these additional products and now adding AI.
Do you think about inorganic M&A at all fitting into this?
Yeah, but John.
Yeah, I mean, certainly we think about it a good deal of the time in terms of what could happen in this market, what makes sense for us. But we always do it with a lens of what's in the best interest of our share owners. As mentioned before, that we kind of touched on it already. We did expect something to happen in the space. And we saw that with the Bending Spoons announcement around Brightcove. But our main focus is showing up every day, executing and delivering the organic component of this business. That's what's really important. That's what's going to drive value into the stock. That's going to put us in a much better position vis-à-vis whatever we would do from a strategic or inorganic perspective.
Ron talked about just a short while ago, this company was a Rule of 30 company. We still know the reason, and we're not going to light anything up by providing any guidance. We'll do that in the second half of February when we announce the full year and fourth quarter, but we absolutely are headed back in that direction. The guide that we've given for the full year already, that's out there, is a Rule of 5 getting through 2024, and we certainly think that there's more to come that we can do a lot better than that.
And that's after +30% became -14% in one year. So then -14% became +5%, right? So we're climbing back.
Right on.
And in terms of capital allocation generally, kind of day to day, John, how do you think about that in terms of buybacks?
Yeah, well, I mean, we have a buyback that's out there already. We put that in place in the June timeframe. And when I say we, I include the board since obviously they had to approve it. We felt the value of the stock at the time wasn't reflective of what the value of the company should be on an overall and per share basis. So we put in a $5 million buyback. The numbers I give you will be through September 30th since that's when we last reported. We're about 40% through that $5 million. So we have some powder left in that regard. We're also, we absolutely are not only comfortable about where we're going from a revenue and adjusted EBITDA, certainly driving that down. Cash flow from ops, free cash flow also moving in the right direction.
So we're certainly looking at our overall capital structure. We're going to do what we need to do to optimize it and expect more in 2025.
Great. We have just a couple of minutes for questions. Any questions from the audience? Anybody want to lob in?
For all of you that are lining up to buy the stock, KLTR.
Great. Ron, any last comments you want to make in closing up here?
I mean, look, this isn't Amazon, right? It's a small company, but that's been in a very, very troubled industry, and opportunities emerge when the markets are not perfect and there is a gap, and this entire market came down and now it's coming back up, and Kaltura has always dominated this industry, and so we believe that we could definitely continue to expand. We know how to do that. We've delivered on our promises to date, and we continue to, we'll continue to work hard to do that, and that's both growth and profitability, and again, if you use the Rule of 30, yeah, it's going to go up and to the right, and it's a good opportunity for folks.
Excellent. Well, thanks so much for joining.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Great job.
Wait, there was a go ahead, Neil.
Neil, go ahead.
Talk about your white space being 2.5 times your installed base. What are the areas you go after first? And talk about the potential of some of that.
The question was about the white space and existing customers and the opportunity and how you're going to approach that upsell opportunity.
Yeah, so from an industry perspective, again, we're leading with more regulated in tech rather than education and media and telecom given the past and recent investment, not because we're not going after them. It's going to take a little bit longer in some of these other ones. But when I say a little bit, it's not years, it's quarters. Because M&T, we're already starting to put more salespeople. And education, we're adding certain capabilities that are going to help that as well. But I'd say from a potential size and immediateness, these would be the two sectors. From a product perspective, again, the new product around Events and Webinars and Virtual Classroom that are real-time based that are now tested and successful and growing are probably going to lead the ability to consolidate the space in the VCMS customers that we have, the video content management system customers.
So I'd say these products would be the frontier of this. It'll still be larger enterprise across all these. It'll still be more focused on existing rather than new, not because there's not going to be new, but because we could easily continue to expand with less CAC as we continue to expand margins. But we're going to do both. And it's going to be both North America and EMEA. But again, EMEA is bouncing back very nicely. I still expect North America to be the larger part of the market, but it's going to be both. And it's going to be with a bit more salespeople now that we can start putting more people in. So that's going to factor in as well. But we're going to do this gradually and like always, prove it before we talk a lot.