Hey, great. Welcome to our investor briefing at OFC. I'm Kathy Ta, VP of Investor Relations, and very pleased to have you all here. You'll see that we have been infinitely more civilized than some of our peer group because we actually have seats for everyone. I do expect the meeting to fill in as we go along. If you have an issue seeing the screen, there are a few seats up in front that you can grab now, or you can follow along with our webcast. Our webcast should be live, and we'll follow along with the screens. If you are following along with the webcast, please turn off your speakers so that the time delay of the audio won't mess us up. With that, I'll introduce the topic for today: Innovating for the Era of AI-Optimized Networking.
I will carefully read every word on this slide. We will be making some forward-looking statements, and our actual results may differ materially from the statements that are made today. You can read the full language to your heart's content on our website. Also, I want to mention that our slides will be available for download at 11:00 A.M. Pacific time, right when we're done with the presentation today and open up for Q&A. I have the pleasure to announce today's speakers: Michael Hurlston, our new President and CEO; Wupen Yuen, who is the President of our cloud networking business; and Wajid Ali, our CFO. Chris and I will be available for Q&A along with the speakers at the end. We will start the Q&A session around 11:00 A.M. Pacific. With that, I'd like to introduce Michael to the stage.
Thank you, Kathy. Good to see many people. The first question I get asked is, why did you come back to optics? Okay. One answer is, I'm absolutely insane. This is a tough business. Alan set us up for incredible success, but this is a tough business. The second answer, and that's really the answer, is the opportunity. I mean, there's no question this market is on fire. As we'll talk about, the switch now from electronics to the optical domain is really what's driving our business and what we see as an unfolding immense, immense opportunity. We really have an opportunity to grow this company both on the top line and in terms of margins and operating margins. We'll go through all of that as I click through. Hopefully, I got this clicker to work.
As we think about the optical domain, this is all about power, efficiency, and scale. As we start thinking about now moving these data centers more and more to the optical domain, which Wupen will take us through, you see incredible power reductions, which ultimately allows these data centers and the AI data centers to have more scale. You can run more workloads in the data center. You can run more servers in the data center at the same power level, at the same efficiency, because we're moving things to a much lower power-consumptive environment. That's really what optics brings. As we think about now moving the switches that are all electronic today and the spine and the leaf down to the optical domain, the power savings that that enables is incredible.
We really believe that this world is switching quickly to the optical domain. If we can execute properly and capture that opportunity, we will do phenomenally well. You can see as we think about the company, one of the core competencies is clearly our components. We have components really for every make and model. You think about now, and Wupen will talk about this, where we believe we're first to market with a 400G EML. We already have 200 G, and we have an opportunity to move that to a differential from a single-ended to a differential, which again saves power. We are not only engaged in the transceiver market, which is an unbelievable opportunity, but we are supplying our components to almost every transceiver going into all-end customers.
We really believe that this is a key differentiator for us, the ability not only to have components, but then to bring those components together in solutions and bring those solutions to our customers. We win kind of no matter what. As our end systems go into customers, we obviously do very well. As our competitors, in some cases, bring transceivers and they bring solutions to the data center, we still win because our components, more often than not, are inside those subsystems. This is really a key for us. As we think about that, again, where do we do really well? It's the marriage of material science and engineering design. That's where we do really well. We have, as many of you know, wafer fabs.
Those wafer fabs really bring together indium phosphide, a material, a key material, gallium arsenide, again, a key material, and our laser designers. The combination of design and material science is really our underlying differentiator and why we do well over and over again, not only in our own transceivers and our own system products, but as we sell our components out to other competitors and customers. That's where we win. This underlying technology in the company, the marriage of material science and design is a fundamental, fundamental differentiator. As we think about the market, again, this is an explosive opportunity. We see a 25%, greater than 25% compound annual growth for the part of the optics market that we play in over the next handful of years. You can see where do we focus? CPO, co-packaged optics, LPO, optical circuit switches.
These are the areas in which we play that we see the greatest market growth. It's an unbounded opportunity, almost, right? As we think about keeping our solutions in the optical domain, our ability to grow and scale the top line while focusing on profitability is where we think we can operate the company. Our scale-up photonics, we saw that last week at GTC. We really think we have a differentiator in our CW laser, high-power CW laser that would go into co-packaged optics. We think we can play even more broadly in that opportunity and optical circuit switches, which Wupen will talk about here in a second. What, again, is a differentiator with Lumentum is our ability to play in all parts of the optical market. Everybody now is focused on what's happening inside the data center because, of course, that's the biggest part of the pie.
Our long-haul optics, which has been a fundamental underpinning of the company for years and years, this is starting to drive. The biggest transport people now, the biggest customers of long-distance long-haul networks are the hyperscalers. As we think about our business and scaling it from end to end, from subsea to long-haul and metro data center interconnect inside the data center, we have solutions for all of it. We're very unique in the optical world in that we have bits, we have solutions for undersea, we have solutions for metro, we have solutions for data center interconnect. Of course, inside the data center is where a lot of the focus is. We do have a true end-to-end portfolio.
This market is explosive not only inside the data center, but also as we're thinking about moving bits under the ocean, moving bits from data center to data center. This is kind of the underappreciated part of the market, a market where we're equally strong and have a very big footprint. As we kind of conclude here, my piece before I hand off to Wupen, a couple of key comments. One, optics brings the lowest power per bit. It really has the underpinnings to allow these data centers to scale up, to allow data centers to carry more complex and difficult workloads. Second, we see this market growing very, very rapidly, 25% compound annual growth over the next five years. This is a very sustainable growth rate that we see, particularly in the segment of the optics business that we participate in.
Finally, and Wajid will talk about this, as we think about our business, we see a near-term track to revenues of greater than $3 billion annually and a 20% operating margin. As we are growing the company, which I do not think anybody questions, we think we can grow it profitably both from a gross margin perspective and from an operating margin perspective. We really, really feel good about where the company is positioned and the opportunity ahead of us. Okay, with that, I am going to turn it over to Wupen, who is going to go through the technical details of all of this good stuff. Mr. Yuen, okay? Show is yours. Thank you.
Thank you, Michael.
Just as you were staring at my picture for a little longer. Before I get started, I want to share with you, first of all, a few kind of top-level views that it will be good for you to think about and kind of put everything we're going to discuss details into kind of a framework, right? Number one, what has changed? The optical industry has been a boring industry for the last 20 years, right? What has changed between the old optics and the new optics now? I think the way I would summarize it really is that optics used to be used for communications. Now it's power compute. That sounds a very simple, very plain sentence, but actually it captures the true essence of why optics is now becoming so big and so important, right?
Today, as you know, you can hear last week in GTC, without optics, AI does not scale, right? It's now in the middle of the compute revolution, and that's why the opportunity is really big, right? That giving you kind of the overall framework. Let's talk about the intra-data center growth. I want to give you some ideas why it becomes so big again. When we were so all big in the cloud networking from, let's say, mid-20, the first 10 years of year 2000 to maybe 2022, 2023 timeframe, all we hear about is cloud computing. Cloud computing only used today, we call it the front-end network, right? That was already pretty exciting. When AI shows up, the GPU connectivity basically required a brand new network. It's called a back-end network. It's a 5x the capacity of the front-end network.
All of a sudden, you have an instantaneous big jump in the capacity required for optics. Third, which is yet to come, and you also kind of got a hint of this last week at GTC, is that when the GPUs are really connected with the scaled-up optics, the capacity requirement is 10x of the back-end capacity. Think about one being the front-end, five being the back-end, the scaled-up is 50x, right? That coupled with all the computation requirement needed for AI, whether it's training or inferencing, is what's actually really causing the optics to be now thoroughly in this whole revolution of compute. The third point, I want to just echo what Michael just talked about, right? What we're seeing now is that it's not only data center itself is growing like crazy, but also that traffic has to be diffused out of data centers.
Why? What's causing all this? First of all, the GPUs are hungry monsters. You got to feed them with data, right? People today are building data centers. They will actually match the fiber capacity into data centers with the kind of power wattage they're going to actually consume. Why? Because that's proportional to the compute, number one. Number two, today, a lot of data centers are, because they're so power hungry, they have to build near power sources. Guess what? Those areas don't have fibers. Therefore, laying down new fibers, new data centers also requires more transport capacity. Number three, there are some DCI-level cross-data center training work that's going on, right? All this all combined together is also driving, as Michael talked about, the transport transmission in a traditional sense, but again, to serve compute, it's not to serve communications, right?
These are the kind of driving factors, right? It's really driving the optical business. Coming back to this and then say, okay, what does it take to serve that market, right? This is where things get really interesting because the customers, now hyperscalers, are looking for performance, speed, scale, quality, and security, all five of them, right? That's not your grandmother's optics anymore. It requires not only one-dimensional performance or innovation. It requires a scale, quality, security, everything, the whole nine yards. Optics has to go into a very different game to really make itself a growth, a platform that our customers finally can actually count on, right? One of the things we hear all of this today is actually you're not scalable, you're big enough, and so on and so forth, right? That's where Lumentum actually comes in.
I want to come back to Lumentum's story is that Lumentum's 25 years' experience in the optics domain, scaled up all these technologies and all the investment and all the fabs and manufacturing capacity is what actually positioned Lumentum squarely in the middle of all this optics revolution because of these requirements coming from the application itself. With that, let me jump into the details of my presentation. Okay. First of all, the optical bandwidth growth, we talked about it already, right? The front-end and the back-end now, then including the scale-up growth, is really driving a huge amount of, let me call it optical lanes, right? To actually meet that optical lanes, the traffic growth, the number of optical lanes now they have to increase by a lot. They also have to increase in speed, right?
Frankly speaking, without that optical lanes being ramping at the same time with power, with the efficiency and speed increasing, the left-hand chart of the power consumption growth is going to be even more, right? As you can see, more and more, the optical, the communications, and then the computation that's caused by the optics become a very dominant part of the whole equation in figuring out how to scale the AI infrastructures. In order to address the power consumption challenges that data centers will be facing, there are a few very important points we will actually go through. Number one, you use higher and higher speed optics, right? Because by and large, when you go to the higher data rate, the power consumption does not really increase very much.
By scaling to a higher bandwidth, higher data rate, you scale down the power consumption per bit on a per bit basis. Number two, another way to address it is like what we discussed last week at GTC is to use co-packaged optics. What it does solve the problem for you is that it removes the copper loss between the switch to the front panel, right? That loss is huge at 200 gig per lambda or per lane, right? Saving that actually is a very major saving in terms of getting the power consumption down. Third, another way you can do this actually is to change how you do switching. Today, all the switching is done at the electric domain.
At some point of the network, it might be advantageous to actually do it in an optical way so that you remove all this very power-hungry silicon switching and also, frankly, remove some of the pluggable power consumption too. I'll give you some more details in that regard. Finally, one last thing we'll talk about today is I also talk about how data center interconnectivity can be served with the technologies to at least make the power be more available. You may not lower the power consumption, but make it more available to the data center locations. As the data center comes to scale in capacity and also in scale, just in size, there is a very clear trend now going forward that the traditional guided mass night VCSEL-based solutions is not going to be sufficient. It doesn't have enough distance.
You can go probably 30 m at 100 gig per lane, maybe less than that for 200 gig per lane if it's ever doable, right? Therefore, when you scale up to 100,000, 200,000, a million GPUs, the only way to connect at such a vast scale and also at such a high speed is through indium phosphide, right? Whether you do it with the traditional indium phosphide, EMLs or lasers like that, or with the CW laser or CW photonics, overall, the amount of indium phosphide usage is only going to increase. Therefore, once the data center folks have installed single-mode fiber as their structural connectivity plan, there's no reason to go back anymore, right? Definitely single-mode fiber plus high-speed indium phosphide is the direction that industry is going.
Lumentum, having invested in indium phosphide for the last 25 years, built the fabs, built technology bases, foundations, and the reputation for quality, were well poised to benefit from this indium phosphide taking the leadership in the market share. Over the last, I guess, 25 years or 20 years or so, right? These are just kind of some of the publications we have done in the industry, all the way from 40 gig, 25 gig, all the way to actually 400 gig. Just now, we actually announced a 400 gig device. I'm going to show you some of the eye diagrams here. It's actually pretty amazing. One thing I want to share with you too is the following, right? People talk about leapfrogging, leapfrogging, leapfrogging.
I think in the semiconductor world, frankly, there's no leapfrogging because every single generation of technologies, considering performance scales and quality and speed, you really have to build on a very solid foundation of the previous generation, right? One of the core strengths of Lumentum really is that 25 years nonstop continual innovation and continual scale-up of our operations. That's what's causing us to be able to really implement the next speed node much, much faster than anybody who doesn't have the same kind of history and scale as we have today. We talk about one of the first things you do is to increase the data rate per lane, right? We're happy to report that we're going to have two demonstrations at this OFC. First one is a 400G EML, right? Actually, when I first saw this eye diagram, I was really impressed.
This is really a very, very clean eye diagrams, very centered, no skew, looks beautiful, right? This one, we're going to have a demonstration together with Keysight at their booth, right? This I would think probably one of the world's first 400G EML. On the right-hand side, actually, is even more interesting. This is a Mark Zander DSP integrated chip, right? That you can control the chirp. It can go to longer and longer distances, even over campus. Also, this actually is driven from a DSP, right? Now it demonstrates that a DSP and 400G combination is now possible, right? This will be a demo at our booth, right? I would say this definitely put us at the front runner as a leader for the 400G per lane generation.
That will put us in a really strong spot to be the first to address the market with 3.2-T optics. The second thing, what you'll do, a little bit of physical description here, is that how do you get the power down at a given data rate? One of the things that if you understand the semiconductors is following, right? While digital circuits are scaling as a smaller and smaller node of a semiconductor, the analog portion doesn't scale very much, right? Therefore, like the drivers, TIAs, things like that, the way to get the power down is by lowering the swing voltage, right? The lower the swing voltage is required, the lower the power. What we have developed is so-called differential EML. Basically, you drive it in a differential way, the natural way you're coming out of a DSP.
By being able to do this, you basically half the voltage swing that's needed, which then results in a power consumption saving, right? In addition, because you drive it in a differential way, you also give you better signal integrity, improve the performance of the optical modules, right? This actually is a new technology we're bringing to market. This can also be extended into 400 gig per wavelength going forward, right? This will be on top of the another two technologies we just showed on the previous chart, right? To again extend the use cases, the performance, and the scale of our indium phosphide leading-edge high-speed devices. The third way we talk about already here is how to reduce power consumption is to minimize the loss itself, right?
Because when you drive an optical module from a switch, that long trace of 20 inches or so of copper traces is very, very power hungry, right? Therefore, the way to actually remove all that power is by integrating the optics right next to the switch and really making the distance so short that it almost doesn't cause any power consumption, right? If you do that, you probably can save more than 50% of the power consumption, which actually makes a big deal. You also remove the DSP pretty much completely from that optical chain, right? Now, our innovation actually, which is like we talked about just now from Michael, is that our Raman pump technologies, again, developed over the last 20 years, has given us a foundational technology starting point to develop an ultra-high performance, high-signal integrity, and high-power laser that's ideally suited for this application.
This was the announcement at GTC last week, right? This basically highlights Lumentum's laser is being used together in the CPO platform, both for the quantum switch and the spectrum switch, right? If you look at this chart, something, a little detail there, you will see that the density of the CPOs on the switch is very high, right? Actually, NVIDIA talked about the use of a micro-ring modulator, right? That is the cause of such a high density or the so-called showline density of the CPOs, right? Our laser is specifically designed to match the need of performance for the micro-ring modulator. We believe the micro-ring modulator is now being proven feasible, will become the norm going forward. Therefore, we're highly confident with our laser's position and performance.
We're definitely increasing the scale of these lasers to meet the future demand of the CPO going forward. Now, it's going to take some time, right? It's not going to be overnight. It's a very complex technology over time, but we do believe that the future is going to be pretty bright for this technology. We talked about it already, right? Because of CPO, there's a word called a blast radius, right? You have this big switch. If the laser fails, it's going to be a big problem, right? Therefore, our Raman pump technology and proven reliability is the core, right? That got our customers' attention, get their confidence, and everything is going pretty well. Of course, we'll be ramping up pump lasers as we speak as well because the transport capacity is also ramping up very quickly.
If you put all this together, right, actually Lumentum has a full roadmap covering the next two generations, three generations of optical technology. We're just taking this really from the page of GTC from last week, right? Right now, we're in the 800G generation. Next year, it'll be 1.6-T generation. Two years later, we'll be 3.2-T generations. We have a whole slew of devices, whether it's a single transmitter, EML transmitter, or high-power lasers, right? Whether it's a pluggable module or in CPO form factors, we have technology to actually serve it all, right? These are all on our roadmap, right? We do intend to not only have the technology, but also have the scale to serve at the timelines that the customers need. Finally, we're not talking about today is the scale-up optics on the last row, right?
Today, it's still very much a copper cable going to a copper backplane going forward, right? At some point, when we go scale beyond a few hundred GPUs, it's going to become very, very challenging to scale at that data rate over that number of GPUs. At some point, optics has to be used. We think that in the next few years, that's another opportunity that we at Lumentum intend to address in a big way. Hopefully, that will again add to the future opportunities for Lumentum going forward. Okay. That was about indium phosphide. If I've not convinced you with indium phosphide, our strength and position, let's talk more. We'll talk also about this optical circuit switch, right? This is a brand new innovation that I've been talking about. Lumentum, again, is in a very strong position. Why?
Because Lumentum has been doing MEMS-based free-space optics design for the last 25 years. Our first WSS were actually built on MEMS. Every single MEMS problem that everybody has seen, we've seen it all. And with reliability to demonstrate for it, we have billions, more than a trillion actually MEMS hours operating in the field, right? This actually allows us to put together a very simple, very elegant MEMS-based OCS design, right? That got our customers' attention. Not only the performance is fantastic in terms of insertion loss and also return loss and things like that, but reliability was really, really, really important for the customer because this, again, had a huge blast radius if the MEMS fails, right? We are very proud of this because it's built on, again, a strong foundation of 25 years of work on MEMS-based optical products. This just shows you the history.
I'm going to go through the details. I think 25 years ago, our first WSS was based on MEMS. We have continued that MEMS evolution development over the last 25 years, right? To this day, it's used in some of our other WSS products. That's why we gained our customers' confidence to use our OCS, which is almost like a transparent, no-penalty kind of optical box, the best that you can think about. It's very simple. One of the big things, if you think about the numbers, right, it's actually kind of mind-boggling. You think about a regular data center switch, probably a 102-T switch or a 51.2-T switch, the switch plus the optics can cost you 1,500 watts to 2,000 watts.
That switch, think about that switch, maybe two RU boxes, four RU boxes, with switch chip inside with all the front panel modules, about 2,000 watts. Our OCS consumes less than 150 watts, right? The power savings, if you use this architecture, is meaningful. Now, you may not use it at every single layer of the switching, but certainly at the spine level, using optical switching actually makes a lot of sense, right? Therefore, we are really confident about the opportunities of the optical switch. Certainly, analysts have told us that and told the world that it's probably a billion-dollar opportunity or more in the next few years. Certainly, in some of the other hyperscalers, people are using OCS for their own architectural choices, right? We see OCS as being not only customer-specific, but maybe become an industry-wide opportunity for the OCS.
Finally, right, we talk about power consumption reduction based on the speed, based on indium phosphide innovation, based on the use of optical switch. Finally, it's about the power availability, right? Now we talk about data centers have to be built next to power sources. Or frankly, when the AI cluster costs so much power, you need more data centers kind of close by. The connectivity, the data center interconnect connectivity is now requiring more and more, I would call it pluggable optics, right? This again hinges on our indium phosphide innovation in the coherent optics domain. This is actually a huge opportunity. This year, combined between the pluggable coherent optics plus the coherent components, roughly the size of the market, about $2.5 billion, will go up to about $7.5 billion, right? It's also coupled by the fact that so-called Shannon limits have been reached, right?
You're not getting more efficient as you move along. Technology is not really making transmission more efficient. The more bandwidth you need, the more channel you need. The more channel you need, the more pluggable you need, right? Therefore, the ramp of the volume and also the market size becomes proportional to really how much bandwidth you need, right? All these benefits coming from the scaling of the Shannon limit now have been reached, right? Overall, we're very excited about this opportunity as well. Again, it's based on our long-term investment, fab scale, and quality and reputation of the indium phosphide technology that we've been building at Lumentum. How do we build this, right? Again, we talk about the scale really is really, really super critical. I think when the back-end network showed up, everybody was caught by surprise, right?
We at Lumentum were able to really ramp our indium phosphide capacity really quickly. In the last 18 months, we basically doubled our capacity on indium phosphide. We have a long-term plan to also increase the indium phosphide capacity even further beyond this to serve the EML, to serve the CW laser, to serve the ultra-high-power lasers going forward, right? We know how to ramp indium phosphide, including changing the wafer size, including more machines. All these are fully automated that guarantees the quality and also scalability. We're really proud of the work doing here. On top of that, considering all the geopolitical challenges, we actually have a very large operation for assembly and test in Nava in Thailand. That's where we put all our tests, the backend test and assembly processes over there, right?
We have our wafer fabs all around the world, in Japan, in Europe, in the U.S. We have our assembly and test operations in Thailand. We are also very well set up as a global company to serve the needs of our hyperscaler and customers, right, and meet their needs on all different dimensions that we talked about in the very beginning. Just to summarize, right, Lumentum is a company I want to give you the view, right? Lumentum's company fundamentally built on its chip, fab, device strength, right? We also coupled with that the free-space optics, the pump-based technologies that we have done over the past 25 years. The indium phosphide portion of it is very well suited from speed, power consumption, scale point of view to serve the future.
We put it together into some kind of module products to accelerate or to get us closer to our customers. Coupled with the optical switching, that's also super important for our customers to scale their network. Finally, the ZR coherent optics is able to scale the distances, right, allow us to be in that part of the market as well, right? Overall, I would say Lumentum is very well positioned in its entire AI-driven optical evolution. Hopefully, then we're able to see our business growth accordingly as what we talk about next. If you have time, come to our booth. We're going to show you the whole nine yards of this. You will have the optical switching in terms of per fiber switching, right, the OCS. You see the optical switching by wavelengths, the WSS. You see ZR optics.
You'll see the data center optics all there. You'll also see the 400 G demonstration in our booth as well. We're not disappointed if you come to our booth and take a look at what we have to offer to our customers and to the industry. Thank you very much.
Can you hear me okay? Too close? Okay. All right. Good morning, everyone. Thanks very much for that whoop. What I'll do is I'll talk a little bit about our model and how we really think we're going to be able to execute to the model that we're going to put in front of you today. The punchline Michael started with right away. That was our ability to execute to a $3 billion top line plan, which should give us an operating margin profile that's greater than 20%.
In previous investor briefings, we've spoken many times about the natural leverage in the business and whether that natural leverage comes from the capital investments that we've already made that we're able to scale, or it's through some of our foundational R&D investments that we've had that allow us to execute quickly on new opportunities as they arise. Wupen talked about two critical foundation technologies that I think deserve to be re-mentioned. One is really around the foundational technology that we've got in our WSS products that's really allowed us to scale quickly. That's going to allow us to scale very quickly with OCS. We talked about OCS at our last year's investor briefing. This year, we're now in a position to be able to communicate that we're going to be shipping OCS products in the second half of calendar year 2025.
We're seeing extremely strong demand from our customers and pull from our customers. The operating margin profile of our OCS products is able to benefit from the foundation technology that we've got, both with MEMS and with WSS products. That's the first one. The second one that Wupen mentioned is really around the years of pump technology that we've got. We talked a little bit about ultra-high power lasers in our previous investor briefings, but really to see it flush through and for us to be able to have a large AI infrastructure customer providing us with a lot of demand for that product has come through because of the foundational technology that we've had in the past and that we've been able to leverage from and to really support the financial model that we're going to talk about today.
Effectively, our capital deployment strategy as we move forward has not changed. It is to have those core foundational technologies that we can leverage as we see new opportunities in the market. A couple of things that many of you asked, whether you are speaking to me or to Chris or to Kathy, is, what does the next $500 million quarter look like? We have publicly communicated that we expect to be able to achieve that $500 million quarter and the associated operating leverage associated with that by the end of this calendar year. You can see the last time we were at $500 million, it was largely because of strength that we saw in our telecom business, although we did not see as much DCI demand at that time.
It was mostly just kind of natural telecom business, as well as a lot of the 3DS demand that we had. That was kind of the old $500 million. The new $500 million is much more split evenly between our data comm chip demand. We'll start to see some OCS shipments as part of that $500 million, but also our cloud module customers coming online. The other 45% is really our telecom business. You can see that we've kept it a little bit muted, not because we don't expect to see those historical type of growth numbers in telecom, but just so that we can use that as a point of upside and focus in on our DCI products, specifically our tunables products as being the main reason behind us getting to our next $500 million.
You can see that the industrial tech portion of our business as part of that future quarter is substantially less than what we've had before. That has obviously changed a little bit of the dynamics in terms of what type of operating margin profile that has. Having a good sense of what that looks like from a product mix standpoint really kind of drives the thinking around not only our R&D, but some of the CapEx investments that we're going to make in order to support numbers beyond what we see by the exiting of this calendar year. There will be time for Q&A at the end, so you can ask questions then. Michael talked about the $3 billion. Again, I'd encourage everybody to think about that on a quarterly run rate basis, right?
In Q2 of fiscal 2025, we achieved $400 million. The way to think about $400 million-$500 million a quarter is really just our EML capacity coming online. Our EML capacity will double between the Q2 that just ended and the Q2 2026 that we have talked about. That will be a big source of the delta. Us really being able to ramp up our Thailand facility to support the tunables demand that we are seeing because of data center interconnect, those two things should really drive the majority of the delta in terms of getting from $400 million to $500 million. $500 million-$750 million a quarter, the reason we are able to talk about it this year is because of OCS and ultra-high-power laser.
The bridge to think about is going from the $500 to the $750 are really those two major product lines driving a substantial portion of the growth from where we expect to be at the end of this year to when we get to the $750 million a quarter. The other positive thing that you'll see on the next two slides is that our gross margin profile for both of those product lines that are going to drive that growth are above the corporate gross margins of the company. The ASP profile are substantially different for both of those products because the ultra-high-powered products are chip products, chip-based products. OCS is more of a module-based product. The ASP delta is substantial. Both of them carry a combined gross margin profile that is above the company gross margin average.
You will see some nice gross margin leverage for both of those. You will see some nice operating margin leverage. A lot of it has to do with the fact that ultra-high-power laser will be produced by us in two of our fabrication facilities. OCS, a lot of the work will be done at our Thailand facility that we will be investing in in order to take advantage of the leverage there. When you flow that through, when you flow that revenue growth through to operating margins, because the gross margin profile is better than the corporate company average and the R&D investments, much of those R&D investments have already been made. We have that as a baseline. Those same R&D resources can then move on to the next generation of OCS, which Wupen has not talked about yet.
We really don't see a major increase in operating expenses as that flows through. The target financial model. Last year, when we got up and talked about our target financial model, the first column had a $1.6 billion-$1.7 billion number in it. That effectively equated to $425 million a quarter at about a 10%-10.5% operating margin profile. You can see from the progression of results that we've had for the last number of quarters, as well as the guidance that we provided for our fiscal Q3, really we've fallen in line with the gross margin profile and the operating margin profile that we communicated to all of you last year. The $2.4 billion model we also presented to you last year.
There have not been really any changes to that with us being able to start to get towards 40% gross margins and operating margins that start approaching 20%. As we get into volume production for both OCS products and our ultra-high-power products, we will then see the bridge to a $750 million quarter run rate. We should be able to see operating margins that are greater than 20%. You can see that we see a path to start nudging up against 42% gross margins with operating expenses being 18%. If you start to quickly do the math on 18% on $3 billion and you compare it to really what we are spending right now, you can see that actually there is a lot of investment that is built into that number as part of the $3 billion model.
There is certainly opportunity there as we continue to use the same foundation of resources to drive that level of revenue. That is really kind of how we are thinking about the model moving forward. You can see that really not a lot of changes in the first two columns from what we had presented last year. All right. I think I have said everything here already. There probably should not be any takeaways that you have not already kind of thought through. With that, I am going to pass it to Kathy to start the Q&A session.
Okay. Thanks, Wajid. We will be taking questions from the people in the room. If you have a question, please step up to the microphone that is in the center aisle here. Please say your name and the firm that you are from for the purpose of the webcast so that we can capture all the information. I will take this microphone off the stand now so you can cut it.
Vivek Arya from Bank of America Securities. Thanks for hosting this very informative day. I had a few questions. First is the timing, Wajid, for the $600 and then the $750. You mentioned that the delta was really OCS and high-power lasers. I am surprised not to hear transceivers right in that. What is the market for OCS today? What is your share? How much do you think, where is that market going? How many customers? It seems like a very niche market. For it to generate a large STEM and for you to have a high market share at accretive margins.
Okay. Wupen and I will talk through this one together in terms of market share. I do think that my view is I do think the market is evolving. We are starting to see bottoms-up demand from multiple customers in multiple geographies. I think OCS right now, I mean, we can look at TAM information and kind of conclude based on how we think the overall TAM is working. Based on what we are seeing from a bottoms-up standpoint, our internal forecasts are very well supported. I would say our below 50% market share in terms of the opportunities that we are seeing over the midterm. Just to be not to be cute about midterm, we have openly talked about $500 million being by the end of this calendar year.
$600 million, we will probably see six to nine months after that just in terms of run rate and based on what we understand about the timing of our 200G EMLs ramping up. I mean, there's a lot of products I haven't mentioned just to keep the storyline simple. The reality is that 200G EMLs are also ramping up in the timeframe of the beginning of calendar year 2026. We're going to start to see OCS ramp up probably around the middle of calendar year 2026 in high volume production. We're going to start shipping now, but we'll start to see high volume production. Ultra-high-powered lasers probably the middle to back half of calendar year 2026. I don't want to put a timeframe on the $750, but that's really the progression of the timing of volume shipments.
As we get closer to that, we'll be able to put a stake in the ground and say, "Okay, within this six-month period, this is when we see it hitting." I think the other thing is that we have undercalled in the very first slide, I was open about it. We have undercalled our telecom demand. We're seeing WSS demand. We're seeing tunables demand. We're seeing CDM demand. A lot of it, until our customers report, we can't actually tell how much of it is natural telecom and how much of it is actually related to data center growth. Across all of those product lines, we're seeing an uptick in demand. Even though I'm calling it DCI, I think there is definitely some DCI.
I do think that there is also some underlying telecom demand that is coming back that could kind of push and pull on our revenue profile, mostly because of how we can supply to that demand profile rather than the demand from our customers itself. I hope that makes sense. I do not know, Wupen, you want to.
Oh, okay. So on OCS, right? I think you were right. OCS is still a nascent market, right? Again, one customer has a very specific use case. The volume is pretty high. And there are other customers who are actually looking at it as a way to either spine switch replacement or in some cases actually scale it up, right? So there are multiple use cases, right? Today, our share is low, which is getting started. But like what you said, right, we do have visibility into ramping up to some really meaningful volume second half of 2026.
One quick follow-up. In your EML lasers, how do you decide whether to use it in your transceivers versus selling it to others? What are the differences in margin and your opportunity?
Yeah. I mean, just kind of backing up, as we've been taking a look at our capacity, one of the conscious decisions we've made is actually the difference between our EML lasers and our CW lasers just given the margin profile per wafer. The margin profile per wafer is better on EMLs, and it's less so on CW lasers just given that market dynamic. As our capacity is ramping up, we now have more room to ship our own CW lasers, whether externally or internally for our own demand. Our thinking is that if we have a customer that wants our EMLs as part of the transceiver solution, we will go satisfy that customer first and then take a look at the margin profile the second. Then we look at capacity, and then we decide on CW lasers.
It's kind of one, two, three. That's how we're thinking about it.
Thank you.
Hey, guys. Thanks for this briefing, Chris Rolland from Susquehanna. Just a clarification on OCS, and then I wanted to hit EMLs. First of all, on OCS, the $1.25 billion by 2029, that market, just to clarify here, this is for the full box as opposed to WSS components. And the margin profile of the full box.
Is greater than our company average.
Is greater than corporate average.
Yes.
Okay.
Is greater than our company average.
Great. Thank you for that. Yeah. Sorry, one follow-up there would be if you had a market share expectation or something like that around this. I know it's fairly limited market.
I mean, if you just do the math, right, it clearly says we're in the kind of 30%-40% market share number based on the high-level math. But our bottoms-up level is kind of coming to the same result. It actually feels like customers are coming to us first just based on the intensity of how quickly they'd like to see our products and when they'd like to come in. But it just might be a bump in the road, and it'll normalize there. That's why we're very comfortable with the numbers we're presenting on OCS to you.
Chris, we have a big advantage on high port count. As you get up to 300 by 300, we think we have a big advantage. On lower port counts, more competitive, still we're a major player. You can see our share getting into the 40s very quickly. I think the market is moving to the higher port count. As that happens, it plays to our strength.
Fantastic. Thank you, Michael. On EMLs, and this is really a debate, I think, here at OFC, EMLs versus SIFO, it seems like EMLs at 800 and then 1.6 have a speed advantage, speed-to-market advantage. How are you guys thinking about some experts claim that the gap for SIFO is narrowing. How are you guys thinking about your position in EMLs? How are you thinking about this going forward, your capacity ramp?
Is there a situation in which SIFO ramps quickly and you have additional extra EML capacity? Is that fungible for something else?
The capacity is fungible. I'll answer that part of the question because we're constantly making allocation trade-offs between EML versus CW laser and then within EML, internal, external, and then within external, which customers. I'll hand it over to Wupen.
Yeah. The EML versus CW laser or CW photonics is not just technology per se, right? Actually, last year until earlier this year, the EML supply, I mean, we talk about it, was just inundated by EMLs, right? And people say, "Oh, EML is not quite available. Let's go to CW lasers, go to CW photonics." Guess what? It's also constrained, right? People have a, I think they have maybe an intuitive feeling about, "Oh, just choosing one versus the other." The fact is, indium phosphide is the constraint, right? Therefore, we're like, "Okay, let's focus on EML, making sure we make our gross margin dollars there." Now capacity ramps up, we also serve the CW laser, right? That's one very important factor that kind of caused that shift a little bit. Silicon photonics, of course, it's actually coming, it's actually getting better.
Frankly speaking, though, almost everybody uses the same silicon photonics foundry today, right? That could also become a constraint, right? I think as technology starts to kind of play itself out, it's going to be performance and also the availability of capacity, right? Like we said, we're going to optimize for our gross margin going forward. We have both technology we can serve the entire market with.
Sounds like a good plan. Thanks, guys.
Thank you.
Hey, guys. Tom O'Malley with Barclays. Just really quickly, the theme of the show here is both the optical switching and then also co-packaged optics. To the extent that you can on a like-for-like basis, I don't know if we're talking about the aggregation layer or you could talk about the scale-up, can you talk about what you would get from an ASP perspective from a module today versus all the cool solutions that you showed? Then kind of the second part of that question, if you look at your financial forecast, is there an internal assumption about how quickly that takes off and where you see that taking off first inside of the rack or at the aggregation layer?
Let me answer that question. The way we look at it is following, right? I probably will not answer the ASP question, but the way we look at the math is following. We believe we'll have a meaningful share in the CPO market, especially for the laser part because of performance advantages, right? We think we're going to have a pretty high market share in the laser side, right? Then on the pluggable side, we're going to have a lower market share on the pluggable side. Therefore, you actually calculate the opportunity, the revenue opportunity per switch for us is almost the same, right? The CPO approach will have a higher gross margin, right? Therefore, for us, while some of our peer companies have a very high share in the pluggable space, this will be a headwind.
CPO is going to be a headwind for them. For us, actually, it's not so much of a headwind because of the share being different and the strengths being different, right? That's kind of how we are looking at the headwind of CPO in our business. Maybe you can answer the second part of the question.
Yeah. In terms of material revenue, so material levels of revenue, not $10 million or $20 million here or there, if you just take a look at our CapEx profile, obviously, EMLs will benefit the financial profile first just because we've been working on that capacity for almost a year now, right, in terms of putting that in. We're starting to see the benefits of that. The second part will really be OCS because OCS, there's some backend investments that we need to make in our Thailand facility, but those are quicker to get to and quicker to kind of shift over from a volume standpoint and actually achieve that revenue profile. Then ultra-high-power lasers, we do have some capacity at our facility in San Jose, but we're going to be making incremental investments there.
We will start to see that CapEx profile come in in the middle of the year next year and then start to be able to ramp volume levels of production on ultra-high-powered. Some of it is our customer's roadmap, but some of it is just constrained by the timing of how the CapEx will all work and whether it's a backend CapEx or a frontend CapEx.
Just one more, if I may. On the telecom side, some good growth assumptions and where you guys see yourself at the $500 million. When you split that out between transport and transmission, can you talk about what's generating that growth? Just remind me just so that I'm straight, in terms of the ZR revenue that you guys get or the ZR plus, is that all still going to be in the data comm side or the telecom side? Tell me how you're going to define that in that growth.
Yeah. On the ZR side, a lot of the growth that we're going to see is because of our tunable lasers, right? Our tunable laser demand is just, it's really high. All the way kind of backlog that we've got right now that we have unfulfilled all the way out to the end of the calendar year that we see demand from customers. We actually have two different manufacturing locations trying to meet that tunable laser demand, which really is going into ZRs of our customers. That's kind of how we're thinking about the ZR demand. On the rest of kind of telecom, if you put the DCI aside, we're seeing a lot of growth on the transport side of the business with our WSS products and our CDM products. That's where we're seeing a lot of demand.
Now, could some of it be telecom? Could some of it be DCI? That I'm a little bit unsure of.
Pump lasers as well, actually.
Pump lasers, sorry. Pump lasers are really high too right now.
Thanks, Simon. Leopold from Raymond James. I want to get a sense of how you see the mix of the flavors of lasers going forward in that there's sort of conventional wisdom as CPO starts displacing more and more VCSELs, and then CW maybe gets squeezed from the top from EMLs. Does EML get squeezed by coherent devices coming in the data center? I'm trying to think about not this year, but years out, what does the mix of laser types look like? Ultimately, what does that mean for Lumentum?
That's a complicated question.
That's loaded.
Yeah, that's a loaded question. I think a couple of things. Number one, 100G per lane is going to be there for a long time, right? The way we look at it is following. The 100G is going to be continuing to ramp like this, right? There's going to add 200G on top of it, right? Within each bucket, there's going to be a share between EMLs and CW laser. Today is probably still mostly EMLs. That could change, right? 200G per lane probably started with the EMLs and maybe gradually shifting over to CW lasers, right? Overall, I would say if you look at this, that's why I think we look at it as we've got to be there for all different categories, right? 200G or 100G per lane and CW and EMLs, right? It's going to evolve, right?
Today, 100G, 200G like this, and you're going to see the sheer split in between the two, right? I think the CW, the ultra-high-power CPO, is going to come in probably in the next two, three, four years. It's going to gradually eat into, probably not scale up, more scale out, right? It's going to start to replace some of the EML or CW laser market share, right? Again, once we are actually well positioned in there, it almost doesn't matter to us, right? I think for the scale-up portion of it, it's probably going to come in 2028 timeframe-ish, probably still a few years away.
What about the idea that coherent light devices from the likes of Ciena or Cisco get inside the data center?
Yeah, that's actually something we didn't talk about. We may talk about it in the future. I think coherent light is becoming increasingly interesting because the challenges at 400G per lane going forward for any distance at all becomes really high, right? As we're now getting closer and closer, have a close look on technology itself, I think the challenge is going to be, it might make sense now to think about paying a little bit of penalty on the power consumption, but really get much more low budget, right? I think it's becoming really interesting. We're definitely not absent in that investment either.
Great. Thank you.
Karan Juvekar and Morgan Stanley on behalf of Meta Marshall. Two quick questions. One, kind of if you're expecting a 25% growth CAGR and doubling EML capacity this year, why not commit to further capacity expansions going into.
Sorry, why not?
Commit to further capacity.
Commit to further capacity expansions beyond calendar 2025?
Oh, I mean, we are committing to capacity expansions that we've already made, and that CapEx is going to start coming in in calendar year 2026. The lead times are six months, nine months, twelve months for even simple things like reactors. Many of those commitments are currently being made, and some of them have been made six months ago that we're not going to see until calendar 2026. I think we always want to be thoughtful about how quickly we pull the trigger on CapEx, and we are certainly leaning in, but we're not using some of the market growth numbers to determine how we allocate or deploy capital. I'll be honest with you about that. It is a very balanced and thoughtful approach, but it is taking time just because of the lead time offsets on CapEx.
Yep. Makes sense. Another quick question, just timeline to CloudLight vertical integration, any updates there, and how you're thinking about that?
Yeah. We're definitely doing it, right? As you know, CloudLight has a silicon photonics-based platform. We're definitely vertically integrating our CW lasers into our silicon photonics platform. As we talked about just now, we've been favoring EMLs just because of the gross margin. Now we're also using our own laser for our own internal use. Again, we're not going to conflict with our external laser customers. We're going to be whole slew, putting our own silicon photonics, our own CW lasers, and our own detectors actually in our CloudLight kind of the module products going forward.
Yeah. Thank you.
Hey, guys. Ananda Baruah at Loop Capital. Thanks for all the information. It's really great. I guess a clarification quickly, and then two questions. Wajid, on the EML business, did you say that your first order of business will be to serve your merchant transceiver customers?
Our customers, yes. Yes. I mean, if we've got a customer that wants our EMLs and our transceivers, job number one is to get our EMLs into our transceiver customers. Because even though the margin dollar profile isn't as good as selling to somebody else, it certainly creates a competitive advantage for us that Wupen convinces me is better than today's margin dollars.
After that, did you say you take a look at the margin profile?
Of the EMLs. Of the EMLs that are left over, we allocate that capacity. I think that sometime in early calendar 2026, maybe even exiting calendar year 2025, we'll start to have some capacity for more CW lasers. I talk to our head of fab operations almost every other day to kind of understand that. It is certainly at top of mind for us because Wupen is bringing in CW laser demand, and we want to make sure that we're able to commit to those customers based on the capacity we see as well as the risk management of our EML demand.
That's helpful. Is that to say the decision is, was it gross profit dollars or operating?
Margin dollars per wafer.
Got it.
Because the die size is different between EMLs and CW lasers.
Is this your heat map going forward?
That's your heat map. Yes, that's right.
I got it. That dovetails into my second question, which is I believe in the slide deck, 2029, like Lumentum focused TAM, was it $30 billion?
Yes, that's correct.
$3 billion is this target out there that sort of suggests, it's not a 2029 target, but it sort of suggests 10%. So 10% share. Can you foot the $3 billion to the $30 billion and kind of share-wise, how do you guys think you'll smooth it out?
It's not tops down. Anand, it's bottoms up. I think as we work through OCS with various hyperscale customers, we'll be able to have a more thoughtful answer to that. The 25% is more about kind of the long-term consistency of the CapEx we're creating and not trying to say 10%, but I'll give it to Chris to give a better answer.
Let's not get apples and oranges. The $30 billion is five years out. Wajid highlighted a nearer-term $3 billion objective. I would also say that clearly where we've highlighted market leadership positions on the components, lower ASPs, better gross profit dollars. I think you'll see across our portfolio fairly high relative market share across components and then transceivers, share gainer, OCS, we should come out of the gate very strong.
That's awesome, guys. Thanks so much.
Thanks for the question, Joe Cardoso from JP Morgan. I guess just one bigger picture question for me, and particularly on Michael's comments yesterday on the CEO forum or CEO panel, I think you made a comment around not getting paid for the value that you guys are deriving and maybe from an industry perspective. It kind of echoes a similar comment from your peers, but where they saw an opportunity is more on the industrial portfolio. As you think about Lumentum's opportunity, particularly that you're more weighted towards communication, how are you thinking about deriving that value for yourselves? Is there any particular areas of the portfolio where you see that as more low-hanging fruit, etc.? Thanks for the question.
Yeah, look, I think there's a significant opportunity for us to expand gross margin, right? I think, as I said yesterday, I don't think that we get paid for what we do. I think as we go through the portfolio in the next year, there's going to be areas where we're going to focus the high-margin parts of the business. Wupen spent the time talking about EML lasers. We think that we do very, very well there. There are parts of the portfolio that frankly don't deliver the margin, and there's no growth attached to it. If you think about the older telecom side of the business, we're engaged in that today. Is there an opportunity for us to do some cleanup in the portfolio? That's what we're going to look at, I think, over the short term.
How do we get the gross margin up overall into the 40s?
Got it. Maybe a clarification for Wajid is just as we think about the financial model you laid out today, is that kind of baked into that, or is that?
It is not baked into that. The model does not take into account the daily emails I get from Michael Hurlston on the orders that have come in and the standard margin per order. It does not contemplate that, no.
Got it. Appreciate the color, guys.
Hi, Ryan Koontz with Needham. Just followed up on your telecom commentary there. Sounds like you're being conservative. What do you assume for a TAM growth right there in the telecom sector? We're talking mid-single digits kind of thing, or?
Yeah, low to mid-single digits for classic telecom outside of DCI.
Yeah, right. And then with respect to DCI and NZR, what does your attach rate look like there? Is it higher when you go to a DCI model than traditional systems? Maybe you could talk about the mix and how that changes your attach rate, margins.
I think from the component point of view, your typical laser, for example, I think the attach rate is as high or maybe even higher for the traditional kind of telecom products, right? But look at our kind of high-speed product for telecom, for coherent transmission, the attachment is also very high, very high. I think overall, I would say maybe close, very close to each other because, again, it's built on the component strength, right? DCI or transmission, it's the same.
Yeah. And on.
Like data com, yeah.
That's great.
On ZR specifically, is that a market you're going to try to compete in competitively as a module supplier?
Yeah, we think so. We continue to have that opportunity going forward, right? 400ZR is kind of a current tense. The future tense is going to be 800ZR and 1.6-T. We definitely will be playing those work too.
Great. Thank you.
Hey. Good morning, everybody. Hi, Michael. Tim Savageaux from Northland. Got a couple of questions. First, in terms of differentiators, you focused a lot on design, material science, Wupen said chip, fab, device. Didn't really hear manufacturing in there anywhere. Does that potentially portend a change in strategy in terms of manufacturing internally that has arguably been a source of execution struggles for the company? Question one. Question two, what's going on with Amazon? Everyone's issuing warrants. You aren't. What does that say about your potential market share across the board? That's it for me.
Yeah, Tim, look, I think that the manufacturing is sort of a means to an end, right? We think we have a flexible manufacturing footprint. We've got Chinese manufacturing. We've got a footprint in Thailand, as you know. That actually has allowed us some measure of scaling into these various opportunities. Having that has really enabled us on transceivers, for example, to capture market share probably quicker than we would have had we gone outside. As we look out five, six, seven years, how are we thinking about it? That's still a question, I think, for me and I think the rest of the management team. Very, very important, but is it really going to be a gross margin growth driver? We're going to take a look at that. What was the second question?
It's a little company in Seattle.
Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Thanks for that question. Look, we supply, yeah, we supply our lasers to people that are going to supply into Amazon. That's really our means right now. We don't have a direct relationship per se, something that I think we can grow into quickly as we think about the transceiver opportunity, OCS. It's a move that we can get into Amazon. Today, our path in is through other transceiver suppliers that are taking our lasers in.
Got it.
Just to point out, I mean, as you all know, the warrants are dilutive to gross margins.
It's a rebate.
It is effectively a rebate that you're providing. Irrespective of kind of that you're using equity for it, it is a gross margin decline.
I mean, if it's $4 billion, then it's super dilutive, right?
Yeah, exactly. Just so that we're aware of that.
Hi, this is Yang Pu from BNP Paribas for Carl Ahman. I have a question about Pixel. You had a slide showing that Pixel share is going to decrease from like 40% to 20%. That's fair. We are moving from Pixel to EML. Some companies are showing 200 gig Pixel in the show floor. I wonder what's really, if we just look at data center, what's the real application for 200 gig Pixel? Do we still need that? Do you think that 200 gig Pixel already missed the adoption window?
That's a great question. I think the 200 gig Pixel, I think you will find applications in AI clusters, right? Even if it works, it needs a heavy DSP compensation. The Pixel technology is just very challenged at this data rate. With a heavy DSP compensation, you probably can still reach like 20 m-30 m, something like that, in that range. It would be very much limited to an AI cluster kind of thing. It cannot be a cross data center kind of scaling, right? It does not do really kind of real scale-out implementation, right? I think it will remain more of a data AI cluster scaling kind of application.
There is still some space for 200 gig EMLs for server to switch connection?
Yeah, something like that. Something like that. Or GPU to switch or switch to server, that kind of thing. Yeah.
Okay. The next question is about CW laser. You're in your first flight capacity. I know it's fungible between EML and CW. Just how fungible it is, like what's the real lead time to switch between each application? Also, how fungible it is for ultra-high power CW lasers?
Yeah, actually the fungibility or the time to switch is just really just the lead time for the fab.
Okay.
Yeah, we started wafer, started EML, starting a CW laser just when it starts. It's just the lead time. It's the same tool, same equipment, everything.
Okay. What about?
There is no real change time.
What about ultra-high power CW?
Same. Same kind of thing. Yeah. It's just the lead time, the fabrication lead time.
Gotcha. Can you give us a little bit some sense about the margin for ultra-high power CW laser comparing to EML and the regular CW?
Ultra-high power is above our company gross margin average. I think that's about all I'll say about that.
All right. Thank you very much.
Hi, this is Emily from Generation. I have two questions. First one is a clarification question. We talked about from $500 million per quarter run rate to $600 million run rate is about six to nine months. I want to ask if we achieve actually $500 million per quarter earlier than the end of calendar year 2025, are we still looking for six to nine months to achieve $600 million, or are we imply it's?
I'm not going to put a stake in the ground right now. It was more directional. It was a directional statement about kind of the timeline between when the products hit. It's really about products and CapEx coming in to drive that level of growth. The other thing is we see customers pulling in and pushing out, making roadmap changes, even across an 800G line, depending on different components. I think just more as a general rule, it's six to nine months rather than a stake in the ground.
Got it. Second question is about OCS. Are we looking for a particular customer in list, or are we looking at multiple customers who are top list?
Multiple customers.
Okay. Great. Thanks. Okay. I think that is all of the questions that we have. I would like to invite you to visit us at the booth. Our CTO, Dr. Matt Cusack, will be hosting office hours today.
Office hours.
Yeah. There will maybe be homework involved, but there'll be office hours at our booth at 1:30-3:00 P.M. today or tomorrow from 10:00 until noon. Yeah, if you could come during those time windows, that would be great. We can be sure to have Matt on hand to answer your questions about our demos. Thank you very much for attending. Really appreciate your interest.