Welcome, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Michael Lebby, I am the Chair of the Board of Lightwave Logic. It is my pleasure to welcome you to the company's 2023 Annual Meeting of Shareholders. This meeting is also being webcast live, the webcast will be posted on our website for a period of time after the meeting. Welcome to those shareholders participating by webcast. The meeting will follow an agenda, copies of which have been placed on each chair. As it indicates, there will be a time for shareholder questions at the end of the meeting. Before we begin the meeting, I would like to introduce the company's directors who are with us today. I encourage you to take a moment to meet them after the meeting. As I call your name, please stand.
Jim Marcelli, who is our President, COO, and Secretary. Ron Bucchi, who is our Lead Director and the Chair of our Audit Committee. Dr. Frederick J. Leonberger, who is the Chair of our Nominating and Corporate Governance Committee. Siraj Nour El-Ahmadi, who is the Chair of our Compensation Committee. Dr. Craig Ciesla. Also with us is Oxana Holubowsky, a representative of our auditing firm, Morison Cogen LLP. Oxana will have the opportunity to make a statement if she desires to do so, and she will be available to respond to any appropriate questions afterwards. Today's meeting will be in two phases. First, we will conduct the formal part of the business meeting to consider each of the proposals listed in a notice of annual meeting of shareholders dated April 14th, 2023, and to conduct such other business as may be properly come before the meeting.
The second part of the meeting will be my management presentation, followed by a question-and-answer session. The next section, Jim Marcelli, our Corporate Secretary, will be recording the minutes of this meeting. Wendy C. Shiba, the duly appointed representative of Broadridge Financial Solutions, Inc., has been appointed to serve as the Inspector of Election for the annual meeting. Ms. Shiba, would you please stand? Ms. Shiba has signed the oath of office, which will be filed with the minutes of the meeting. Now we come to the formal meeting. For the formal part of the meeting, I will now call on our Corporate Secretary, Jim Marcelli, to establish that we have met the necessary corporate requirements for this meeting.
Good morning. We have proof that notice of this meeting has been duly given and that the notice of the annual meeting of shareholders proxy statement and proxy were mailed on or about April 14th 2023, to all shareholders of record at the close of business on March 28 2023. The affidavit, together with copies of the notice, proxy statement, proxy, will be filed with the minutes of the meeting. As of March 28 2023, the record date of the meeting, there were 414,002,707 shares outstanding. We have 50,322,835 shares present, in by person or proxy at this meeting, which is over 33 and a third percent of the outstanding shares and constitutes a quorum permitting transaction of business. Each share entitles the holder to one vote on each matter that may become before the meeting. A list of the registered shareholders entitled to vote is available by examination by shareholders.
We now come to the section call to order. Thank you, Jim.
Yeah.
Since a quorum is present, I will now call the meeting to order. The meeting will proceed as provided for in the agenda. The items to be voted upon are: number one, to elect one director to the board of directors to serve until 2026 annual meeting of the shareholders or until his successor has been duly elected or appointed and qualified. Number two, to ratify the appointment of Morison Cogen LLP, to serve as the company's independent registered public accounting firm for the fiscal year ending December the 31st 2023. Number three, to approve an amendment to increase the number of shares reserved pursuant to the company's 2016 Equity Incentive Plan from 8,000,000 to 13,000,000 shares of common stock, and to include restricted stock units as a type of award that may be granted pursuant to the company's 2016 Equity Incentive Plan. Number four, to consider and take action upon such other business as may properly come before the annual meeting or any adjournments thereof. Jim, would you please describe the voting procedures?
We will be voting by proxy ballot on the agenda items described on the proxy statement previously sent to you. If you have already turned in a proxy card and you do not intend to change your vote, it's not necessary for you to vote again. However, for those of you who did not turn in a proxy card or if you wish to change your vote. Please get a blank ballot card from Ms. Shiba, our inspector of election, to use to vote for voting today. If you take a ballot, please be sure you print your name and the number of shares you are voting on the ballot. If you have previously sent in a proxy card and you're changing your vote, please note this on the ballot. The ballot must be signed by the shareholder. After you complete the ballot, please give it to Ms. Shiba, as soon as possible, as the results will be announced at the end of the formal portion of the meeting.
Discussion of the proposal. The first item of business is the election of one Class III director to the board of directors to serve until the 2026 Annual Meeting of Shareholders, or until his successor has been duly elected or appointed and qualified. The board of directors is comprised of six directors and is divided into three classes. Currently comprised of two Class I directors, whose terms expire at the 2024 annual meeting, three Class II directors, whose terms expire at the 2025 annual meeting, and one Class III director, whose term expires at the 2023 annual meeting. The board of directors has nominated one Class III incumbent director for re-election and recommends a vote for the election of the Class III incumbent director. Our corporate secretary will now place the names of the nominees in the nomination. Thank you, Jim.
Thank you. The board of directors has nominated the following Class III director to serve for a term of three years or until the successor is elected and qualified: James S. Marcelli. Advanced notice must be given to the secretary of a shareholder's intent to nominate other persons as directors of the company. No such notice has been received. Accordingly, nominations for directors are now closed. The nominee for director receiving the highest number of votes will be elected to the board of directors. The proxies solicited by management will be voted in favor of all director nominees.
I hereby move that James Marcelli be elected as Class III director to serve for a term -
I second the motion.
Proposal 2. The next item of business is the ratification of the appointment of Morison Cogen LLP as the company's independent registered public accounting firm for 2023. The vote required to ratify the appointment of Morison Cogen LLP to serve as our independent registered public accounting firm for fiscal year 2023, is the affirmative vote of the holders of a majority of the votes cast at the annual meeting, entitled to vote on the matter. The board of directors recommends a vote for approval of this matter.
I hereby move that the appointment of Morison Cogen LLP as the company's independent registered public accounting firm for the year ending 2023 be ratified.
I second the motion.
The next item of business is the approval of an amendment to increase the number of shares reserved pursuant to the company's 2016 Equity Incentive Plan from 8,000,000 to 13,000,000 shares of common stock, and to include restricted stock units as a type of award that may be granted pursuant to the company's 2016 Equity Incentive Plan. The vote required to approve the amendment to the 2016 Equity Incentive Plan is the affirmative vote of the holders of a majority of the votes cast at the annual meeting, entitled to vote on the matter. The board of directors recommends a vote for approval of this matter.
I hereby move that the amendment to the 2016 Equity Incentive Plan be approved.
I second the motion.
We now come to section three, voting. There being no other items to be brought before our shareholders for a vote at this meeting, voting is now complete. All ballots must be turned in to Ms. Shiba at this time. Now I will go to the next section, the results of the election. The inspector of election has tabulated the votes, and Ms. Shiba will now give us the report of the inspector of election. Wendy.
Mr. Chairman, all of the votes have been counted. Based on the preliminary results, James S. Marcelli has been elected as a Class III director to serve for a term of three years, or until his successor is elected and qualified. Number two, Morison Cogen LLP has been appointed as the company's independent registered public accounting firm for 2023. Number three, the amendment to the Lightwave Logic, Inc. 2016 Equity Incentive Plan is approved.
This concludes the formal parts of the annual meeting, and the formal portion of the annual meeting of shareholders is adjourned. I will now provide you with a brief management presentation. The management presentation will remain posted on our website for a period of time after the meeting.
With appreciation here from the shareholders for, all that you've done, especially with the announcement this morning.
Thank you very much.
That's most appreciated, Mr. X, and all the shareholders have contributed to that. Now it's the fun part. We'll get to the management presentation. It gives me great pleasure to give you a management update. As most people are probably aware, we had a press release come out this morning, and I see a lot of smiling faces. Somebody said to me earlier this morning: "Are you smiling?" I'm smiling, and this is a really good day for us. Let's get to the presentation. Obviously, we're a public company, so we have a safe harbor slide. The outline of the presentation today is what we do, some market dynamics, the market opportunity, competition and partnering, commercial strategy and activity, investor and public relations, and then I'll summarize. After summary, we can open up for Q&A.
What do we do? This is a slide that is new for my presentation. We make Perkinamine electro-optic polymers. As you can see from this slide, the polymers get aligned through a voltage, but they start off on this side here. These are the chromophores that we start with some chemical symbols. We turn those into devices, and those devices have an impact. We've shown that the material has high levels of thermal and photostability, long-term storage, and operational durability. We have devices that have fast performance and lower power than existing technologies. You can see from the takeaway at the bottom of the slide, fast, stable, reliable, low power consumption, and very small in size. These are the metrics that folks are looking for with our technology. Another very new slide for me. What is a polymer modulator?
Which is a very simple slide. Now we can see a chip here, and on the chip is a purple sort of circle here, an elliptical circle, and this is representative of our Lightwave Logic Perkinamine chromophore. That goes on to the chip. In this chip, you have an optical signal in, an electrical signal in with data. You mix the two together and you get a signal out that's optical, that provides the information. It's a chip that actually provides optical information. Where these chips go, essentially, is in racks that look like this or go into data centers. This gives you a sort of a very high-level view of the type of technology we're working on. This, one way to look at this is a high-performance engine for optical networking.
You can see from the bullet points here, a modulator combines a photonic integrated circuit. That's a chip with lots of different photonic devices, with radio frequency, RF electronics, so it works at very high speed. Obviously, it uses electro-optic polymers. When you apply a voltage to the chip, we can change the intensity here, and the intensity, as you can see, can be changed to develop the signal with the data. You can see that there's millions of these modulators used in a single data center. A lot of these chips are used to drive signals on the Internet.
The electro-optic polymer slot modulators, they provide faster data rates, smaller sizes, and lower power, which makes the technology very exciting for us as we go forward to take our technology into the optical network and Internet environment. This slide here is a few bullet points, but one way to look at our technology is we solve the problem, not just for this generation, but for a long time. I put here for the next decade. That's a number of years. There's other technologies out there that are good for one or two generations, but the performance of our technology can go a long way because the materials we use, they modulate light really quickly. You can modulate light. A very simple way to look at this is liquid crystal displays.
They modulate light also, but are very, very slow. We have a very fast, much faster technology, and then the right application for this technology is the fiber optic network or Internet. They're polymer-based. Our materials are polymer-based. I think we all know this. We all use polymers today with OLEDs. OLEDs are, stands for organic LEDs, so the TVs we look at and the mobile phones and the PDAs, they were LCDs, but now they're polymer-based. Those polymers actually generate light. Ours modulate and switch light, so it's a different chemical composition. If you think about it for a second, I mean, 10, 15 years ago, were we using OLEDs in our displays? We were not. We don't even think twice about using polymers today. We see the success of OLEDs as being something we can follow with our technology.
Our modulators are very small, which actually is a great benefit to put them inside, boxes that go into these servers and routers in a data center, and these boxes are called pluggable transceivers. This next bullet point is interesting because I've used the word transformational, performance headroom. That means that the performance of the electro-optic polymer material is not just good for one generation, it's good for a number of generations. When you're talking to the end users and they're asking about the implementation of a brand-new technology, they don't just want to put a technology in that's good for one generation. They want to put a technology in that's going to be around for a long time, and that's really important. Lastly, here, we can integrate our devices with other devices onto silicon photonics.
That's really important because these pluggable transceiver boxes are actually quite small, and to shoehorn lots of different components in a small box means you have to integrate them. We did this, not ourselves, but the industry in electronics did this 60 years ago with ICs, integrated circuits. We put a lot of transistors on a chip because then it's a smaller size and lower power. The same sort of effect is happening in our industry, in photonics. The takeaway, polymer technology extends speeds, reduces power consumption, and not just for this generation, for a long, long time. I think there's a few investors in here that were before my time. Back in 2017, which is when I gave my first talk, we had unique chemistry, and this is one of the things that attracted me to the company.
At that time, few believed in polymers. I mean, everybody thought a new polymer modulators had some potential, but the industry reason really wasn't that interested, and that was 2017. If we fast forward to today, we do have unique in chemistry, and we improved the performance of our materials incredibly over the last five to six years. Many now believe in polymers. In 2017, it was a case of, we have this great technology, are you interested? Now, it's very different. Polymer modulators have huge potential for optical networking and the internet in general. The last point, which makes me really excited, is the industry is now very interested in our technology. We've come a long way in, like, the last five or six years, and this is really exciting.
Let's have a look at the market dynamics and potential. This looks like a complicated slide. It's not really about pyramids, but it's about what are the big drivers for this type of technology. Well, at the top there. Oops, go back. There we go. At the top there, we can see a modulator chip. Next generation components will require really high-speed modulators, and then the next line down will necessitate next generation switches, racks, and transceivers. That's at the very highest level. What are the real drivers, the macro drivers, that really go underneath that? Well, you can see here, switch density. This is a big issue in data centers. Artificial intelligence computing, I mean, has become a topical subject over the last two or three months, and energy usage.
The takeaways from these are the need for space, the need for speed, and the need for green, the need for lower power. The end users need to seek an optical balance to make sure these drivers will drive the next generation system and subassemblies for using these components. We see polymer modulators as a key component, a key enabler for the end users to achieve these types of macro criteria. This is really exciting because what we're seeing here is that these are problems, these large companies are having, and we have a technology to really address that. This graph on the left, let's just focus on this one. I hope you can see some of the writing at the back. This graph says the time it took to get to 1,000,000 users.
On the top one there is Netflix, and it took three and a half years for Netflix to get to 1,000,000 users. The one at the bottom, which I've outlined, ChatGPT, it took five days. I mean, it just got caught on like wildfire, right? We've all heard both positive and negative things about artificial intelligence. It's not my job to comment on that, but the observation from a Lightwave Logic standpoint is, wow, when you see something like this taking off in less than a week, it has an impact on this graph here. This is computing power in artificial intelligence systems. What this graph is showing is from 1960, 1970, 1890, 2000, they call this the first era, and then you've got a modern era.
When you start getting to 2020, look at the slope of this curve, and this vertical is computing power. Now, it's measured in petaflops, and so I'm not sure we all understand what a petaflop is, but the way I look at this is if you think about the Internet as the U.S. highway system, and you've got all these freeways with a number of lanes. The computing is basically the intersections. What this is telling us is that the intersections need to have three, four , five, six lanes, because if you, if you're in L.A., I mean, or in New York, it's the intersections that clog up first because they got to get the traffic to the right destination. The computing power is actually doubling every two to four months. It used to be every two to four years.
This is providing an interesting situation. The traffic and computing power is driving power consumption in data centers. The next slide I've showed before, but I'm gonna put it up again because it's pertinent. This creates an incredible Achilles heel for the end users. What do I mean by Achilles heel? Well, look, the power consumed is going through the roof, and it's on a trajectory that it doesn't make a lot of sense. You can't sustain that. The traffic, which is the data that gets down the Internet, used to be because we had dial-up modems, and then 15 years ago, it's because we're using lots of video, and video was consuming a lot of traffic, and it still is a lot, but in the last year, that video has been supplanted by artificial intelligence computational power.
Now we're seeing a trend of using even more, and so this traffic and this power is a huge problem for folks who run data centers, as you can see here. This is a major challenge for those guys and the service providers. We see this as the Achilles heel, and we see we have a technology to address this Achilles heel. Where we enter the market is chips like this. We call them engines, polymer modulators, and they go into these pluggable transceiver boxes, which are these guys. Now, there's lots of different designs. As you can see here, there's a number of different designs here and another number of different designs here. This is the latest one everybody's using, and it's called an OSFP, an octal small form factor pluggable. It's not very big.
It's about the size of my finger, about 4 inches long and less than 1 inch wide. Whereas these original guys just had one or two fibers going in the end, you can see here, these guys have eight fibers, and some have 16. Again, really complex, which means you don't have a lot of room to have a lot of components inside this little box. Plus, if you get a lot of components in this box, it can become really hot, consume a lot of power. That's a big problem. The folks and the end users, the data centers, are trying to figure out how to increase the speed and keep the power down so these things don't become hot, 'cause when they become hot, they use a lot of power. This is where we enter the market.
If you take the market, just looking at two types of these transceivers, there's the 800 G and the 1,600 G, or some people call it a 1.6 terabit transceiver. These are the ones that the folks are looking at today to deal with a lot of the increases in artificial intelligence, because the data center guys need to have boxes, transceivers, that deal with this extra traffic. This is a complicated slide. The one at the top is the 800, and the one at the bottom is the 1,600. These are graphs that came from Arista, so this is not our data, but we're just showing you what their data is. They're suggesting that with a 5-nanometer DSP working at a 100 G, that's the sort of power consumption they're looking at, 15 picojoules per bit.
They did some testing with one of the competitive modulator technologies, that's thin-film lithium niobate, which is listed here, and they've got it down to 12, and they've been innovating to try and get rid of the DSP chip, and they're suggesting that they could get it down to eight or six. We know with our technology, we're on this red type of curve. That's exciting. We know we can provide value to these guys in the 800 G pluggable optics market, as well as the 1,600. Our goal is not only to go fast, but to reduce the power. In the 1,600, they're suggesting that the DSP is 3 nanometers and 200 G, and if they get rid of that, they might be able to get to five. We know we can beat these numbers. This is really exciting.
If you look at the words on the left-hand side, power efficiency is key. We expect to see a rapid adoption of this type of technology over the next 24, 36 months. We will have to be mindful of any corresponding customer power requirements. Each customer has their own power requirements, of course, but in general, you know, the takeaway from this slide is that polymers fit this profile really nicely. This is another Arista slide, and I've sort of modified it a little bit. They plotted a roadmap of using these transceivers, so 400 G, 800 G. I've just talked about 1.6 terabit or 1,600 G, and they're even thinking about the next generation, which is 3.2.
When we look at this, we go, "Wow, this is where the competition is today." Everybody's thinking about this type of box here. This is what everybody's trying to prototype right now. We have a technology that takes us all the way up to here, and this is really exciting. The way you work out these transceivers, this is 16 channels at 100 gigabits, so you can get 1,600. This box here is eight by 200, 16 by 200. I put question marks here because I don't know what the industry really wants, but what I do know is our technology is aligned and can fit that performance profile, and that's very exciting. The market. I'm gonna give you some market numbers. Before I do that, I just wanna give some definitions.
This is for our first application of our electro-optic polymers. In orange, is the total of addressable market. Folks in the industry call it a TAM. In this yellowy, olive yellow color, we got the SAM, which is the serviceable addressable market. How big is the market we can reach? The orange is the total size of the market, and the yellow is what in the marketing world called a serviceable, obtainable market. What you can actually obtain with your available resources. As you build your available resources and you become better at scaling, this yellow becomes the same size as this darker yellow. To begin with, you start with this size, but your obtainable market will increase once you get more mature in the marketplace.
For the first applications, you just look at two transceivers, the 800 and the 1,600, the ones I just showed you before. You look out to 2035, these are the units. The forecasting, this is LightCounting, which is probably one of the most reputable market research companies that do this work. They're predicting 40 million units of 1.6 terabit, by 2035, and over 70,000,000 units of the 800G. nice growing market, but just two transceivers, and there's plenty of transceivers out there. It doesn't even include telecom. We haven't even included telecom. We haven't even included non-fiber optic markets. This is just two types of transceivers. All right? The SAM, which is the graph on the upper right, you can see by 2030, this is even five years closer.
Five years closer, if you total the 800 G and the 1.6 T market, this is about 10,000,000 units. The assumptions we made when we put this together for the 800 G, that's about 15% of the TAM. That's, you know, you've taken quite a bit of haircut, so much smaller than the total available market. In the 1,600, we've actually assumed 25% because our technology is more suitable for the higher speeds, because we know our competition can't compete, so we expect a slightly bigger share as you go to the faster speeds. When you fold that down into the obtainable market, 20% of that SAM is about 1.600,000 units for the 1.6 terabit, and 1.400,000 units for the 800 G.
You total it up, 2030, that's 3,000,000 units. That is a huge opportunity just on two types of transceivers, and I haven't even talked about other markets. When you put all this together in a table, and you look at the market potential, you can start seeing here, you can see the TAM, which is the total available market. The numbers come down to about 3,000,000 units, as I just indicated. Even without the other markets that we've included in this calculation, this is a substantial business opportunity. This is a reflection of the combined effect of positive demand for higher traffic and lower power consumption drivers. This is really exciting. Competition. Everybody knows we're not the only technology that makes high-speed modulators on the marketplace.
I've updated this table, and you can see it's quite a complex table. There's a lot of data here, I'm sure some of you will look at this afterwards and ask me questions. I've really just highlighted a couple of things here. One is, there are other technologies. There's barium titanate, some people call it BTO. There's thin-film lithium niobate. Lithium niobate was the original incumbent, that Fred here really innovated with in 25 years ago. There's indium phosphide, and there's silicon. We've all heard of these different technologies. One of the things that's really exciting about our technology, not only has it got high performance, it's actually really small, and really small counts for a lot.
When I go to the next thing, you can see here in this rating here, the relative size footprint, one is best. You know, whether you're putting polymers into plasmonic devices or you're putting polymers into a slot, it's a really tiny device, and that's what a lot of folks are looking for their integrated PIC chip or their photonic integrated circuit chip. If I go to the next slide, I mean, there's some other really nice advantages here, but I'm not gonna belabor the slide. You can see from the ticks on the right-hand side, we have a very nice position vis-à-vis competition. Tiny, this is just one word on this slide.
This was a prototype 800 G module that was made with for Arista, there was a use of a thin-film lithium niobate modulator chip. I've shown this slide before, so some of you have seen this slide before, right? The size of this chip, which is eight modulators, is 9 millimeters by 15 millimeters. That's a huge space in a transceiver box. There's been other thin-film modulator chips I've seen a lot bigger than this. When you look at what we can do on this slide here. Let's see if I can get that in. This is eight of our modulators in 1 millimeters by 9 millimeters. That means there's a lot of real estate left for other things, for other electronics.
You're not really taxing the designer of the transceiver with the space issue. It's over 10x more capacity than competition. This is just a one by nine. You can't really see a lot of detail there, but this is the first time we've shown a one by four PIC chip. This is four modulators on one chip. All right? You can see here, the signals come in here. Here's the four modulators, and this is the output, and you can see a lot of the tracks and things. The interesting thing is this is one millimeter by 3 millimeters. This is really tiny. We're showing you a PIC chip. This is a four-channel polymer PIC layout. We've got Mach-Zehnder interferometers on this. We've got fiber arrays on east and west, with edge couplers.
This is designed for very high frequency operation electronically as well. This just gives everybody an idea. It's not just single modulator chips now. We're designing PIC chips, photonic integrated circuit chips. Partnering. This is a new slide I put together for this meeting, and competitive polymer positioning. Vis-à-vis, on the vertical axis, is silicon foundry compatibility. The horizontal axis is a figure of merit. The figure of merit is, you know, what the end users are really looking for is low voltage, low power consumption, high bandwidth, high speed, and really small size. If you multiply all these things together, then I guess you have a figure of merit. Now, the interesting thing is silicon foundry compatibility.
We know silicon modulators have really nice compatibility with foundries because they're silicon. That's easy, right? We know silicon photonics and even the ring resonators have really high foundry compatibility. When you start talking about lithium niobate and barium titanate, it's really difficult to have these technologies in a silicon foundry. There are folks working on it today, but this is not obvious. This is difficult to implement into big silicon foundries. Then you've got indium phosphide, which actually uses its own foundry, right? Because they have indium phosphide foundries. Some people are trying to get indium phosphide into silicon foundries, but it's difficult. You know, from our standpoint, you know, it's sort of mid-range, but in the low part of this. If you look where we are positioned, electro-optic polymers, we have great silicon foundry compatibility.
The figure of merit, when you look at these metrics here, allows us to perform really well, even though some of these technologies have great performances in certain areas. We've seen really high bandwidth in some indium phosphide, but you've got to be able to couple that with very low voltage, low power consumption. We've seen folks at barium titanate, that's a material that people say have really high r33. It has a high Pockels effect, but that's not the only thing the end users are looking for. They're looking for all of these metrics so that the modulators work really well in the system. When you multiply these together and you look at the figure of merit, that positions our technology very nicely for scaling and ramping. These are new pictures.
You can see here, different types of SEMs from foundries. I'm not going to get into a lot of details of the foundries, but I think the message here today is we're receiving devices back from foundries with great performance. These are new SEMs for a lot of you, and I think I've got another one here that is really sort of exciting from our standpoint. If you looked at our press releases late last year, we did a acquisition of a company called Chromosol, and the core skills with a technology called atomic layer deposition really improved with that acquisition. We also got some IP and some patents. What I'm showing here is an SEM of what ALD is. It's atomic layer deposition of a dielectric-based encapsulation, and you can use this for chip-scale packaging.
What it does is it seals the polymer, and it's like it puts a container or like a package over the material and protects the material from the elements of the atmosphere. A lot of people use ALD techniques. In fact, if you look at the OLED industry, the organic LEDs, they do exactly this to protect the polymers on the displays you look at every day. We've taken this technology. We've worked it in terms of low temperature performance. This is an FIB analysis of what it looks like. You can see here, this 130 nanometers is very clean. It's a lovely barrier, and we're doing some really nice work here, and it's a clean, high quality interface. This is some of the work we've done since we did the Chromosol acquisition. This is really exciting.
Polymer stability. This is not meant to be a technical talk, so I don't expect everybody to be super technical PhDs in the audience. One of the things the end users ask us is, "So what is the reliability and the stability of this material?" You know, we've hired Marwan here as Director of Reliability, and he's putting together a first-class reliability team to make sure we not only have two of these graphs, but a lot more of these graphs, because this is what the end users want to see. The top one just shows you thermal stability. There's 400 hours, but you can see here the change in Vπ is minimal, and this is a stress at 85 degrees. This is a thermal stability test. You can see the results are looking really nice.
Obviously, we're going to keep these in the oven and keep this going. In terms of photostability, I just wanted to show there was a whole bunch of questions: Have you done more than 5,000 hours? This is running about 9,000 hours, and with pretty good optical intensity of 1550. We're getting some really nice performance here over the long term. This is going to increase this year, and it's going to increase next year. Everybody wants to see this type of data, because this is exactly what happened in the OLED business about 10 years ago. They asked for data like this. Once they saw data like this, then everything ramped up. Reliability data set is being built for end user evaluation. Let's talk about commercial strategy and activity. This is our business model.
It hasn't changed since the last slide I gave you. It's this three-pronged approach, where you've got product sales, patent licensing, and tech transfer. That hasn't changed. The technology that folds into this is the chromophore and polymer matrix IP, Perkinamine series materials, devices and PIC architecture IP, fabrication and processing, high speed package and assembly design IP. What that will bring is obviously the output, what everybody here wants to see, which is license and royalty fees, device and PIC optical subassembly sales, technology transfer license for OCTs in tech transfers, too. The goal here with this business model is to become a leader in the engineering and manufacturing of electro-optic polymers. With this, I think most folks have seen this slide before.
These are the representative interactions, all levels of the value chain, from optical component suppliers, to high speed optics manufacturers, to optical networking equipment companies, to the internet service providers, which really influence all these levels. There's many verticals here, but these companies are all sort of part of the optical network, and they make the infrastructure for the Internet. These are the types of companies that will use our technology. You can't do licensing without a strong patent portfolio. The patent portfolio is really based on materials. That's the Perkinamine series, the device PIC, fab, and design, the optical subassembly package concepts, just like the atomic layer deposition that I showed you, and obviously, new patents that we want to acquire and file continuously.
What it really boils down to is that we're developing a polymer-based technologies for licensing that really will engage with the Internet and optical networking and data centers. We're creating a strong moat and know-how to carve leadership in the high speed modulator game. We have unique chemistry to create unique polymers that we can design and create and strengthen this patent portfolio. This portfolio enables this license and tech transfer for long-term revenue generation. You have to put this in place. It takes a long time to get patents and know-how. We have to be very aggressive at this, but it drives the licensing opportunities. A lot of folks have heard that we've been expanding. I think you've seen it in some of our documents.
Before I go through the words, let's have a look at the pictures. The last picture I showed of our facility had the parking lot essentially empty. That's because when I took the photograph, I was in at 6:00 A.M. in the morning, and nobody had arrived. I went out at lunchtime, and you can see the parking lot is full. I know there's some people go up to companies, and they count the number of cars in the parking lot, and our parking lot is full. This is the front of the facility, and this corner here, if you go off in that direction, and that's the front there, and then you see the side, and you can see the front actually adjoins the back. The back is the place that we're actually moving into, expanding into. It actually adjoins.
We're actually going to knock a hole in the wall and just walk through. It's all part of the end of one building, and this is the back. If you go to the end there, and here, and you look down, we go basically about halfway down here. You can see some of the pods here. The folks in there are actually moving out at the end of May, so they're already getting ready to do that. It's gonna take us about a couple of months to refit it a little bit, but it's pretty much set up. Probably around about July, August, we'll be moving in. Some of the things that we're going to be doing. Now, remember, this is about 10,000 sq ft, and this is adjoining, so we're gonna be a single unit, which is really exciting.
It's about a 72% increase in the current space, but this is what it's going to be used for: production, device, test, and evaluation, production reliability, laser characterization, SEM analysis, and a big area of expansion of our chemical synthesis production line. That's really super exciting. Obviously, there's gonna be some offices and meeting space for the new staff. Look what's happened in the last six, seven months. Maybe it's eight months. I mean, we have had 11 recent hires, and this is exciting times for us. We're really building the team to create a world-class team to service our technology to the end users. We see that we have the team and the production facilities to make this technology, and I'll use this word like I did last year, ubiquitous.
That's really one of the key reasons why we're really excited here. A growth funnel. A lot of these companies that get into business usually show some type of funnel. This is our type of funnel, how we look at the marketplace. We have value proposition, prospects. You know, what's the value proposition? Expand awareness and value proposition of our modulator technology. Well, I've been doing this since 2017, so a lot of talks or technical talks, as well as the banking type talks. Prospecting, talking to potential customers in technology. We've done a lot of this in the early days of the technical conferences. Screening some of the friendlies, some of these technology partners and customers, to form a lead list.
Selecting your friendly ones, the ones you really want to work with, to work with the technology. The customers who see our technology as enabling their business to be more competitive. Lastly, that turns into, you know, full-blown customers with technology licensing and optimizing for scaling. We are undertaking multi-level and cross-functional engagements with the goal of establishing revenue-generating clients. I mean, this is what the funnel is all about. A lot of companies show this type of graphic, and this, for us, is growth commercial planning. This slide here, I've sort of expanded the top to show you the type of representative actors that you need to talk to for the value proposition. You've got your prospects. There's a little bit of information here.
I'm sure most people in the audience won't be happy until I go into more detail, but for right now, this is the guidance we're giving. This just shows you, this funnel is working. It's in action, and this is part of our commercial activity that is, we see developing well in 2023. One of the things that I didn't really call out, I mean, there's key pull drivers from the hyperscalers. These are the data center guys, artificial intelligence. Quantum computing is now becoming quite topical, too, but it's still in its early stages. Then there's the key push drivers, you know, the folks who are doing the silicon photonics platform providers, the fabs, and the foundries. This pull and push is something that we're really taking a very close look at as we build our commercial business.
This slide here is a slide we're proud about because this is really part of the press release this morning. A license agreement template for our first commercial license, we're excited to talk about this today. Thank you. I don't think I'll be able to answer all the questions you have on this, but I'll do my best. What we have done is, given what this is, you know, what does this consist of, and why is this important to us? I mean, this is our first commercial market acceptance. That's really what it means. I know you may have a lot of questions about, you know, what's the royalty and what's the revenue coming in. I'm sure you're going to get these questions, really what this means is the market has accepted our technology.
For us, that's huge. That's really huge, right? We're supplying the material. There's a license initiation fee. There are royalties per unit. There's some minimums as you go up in years, and there's some minimum sales volumes. I haven't gone into any of the details, but certainly, you know, we've been talking to a number of folks, and one crossed the finish line, and that's what the PR was this morning. In doing some of this activity, you got to put a data sheet together. This is just one representative data sheet of the Perkinamine Series 2 material. There's other data sheets, but I just wanted to put one up for representation. Now, I don't expect anybody to read the words at the back of the room or even at the front of the room.
The reason I put this up is that this is a commercial data sheet. This is what you send out to customers and when you want to talk to them about the materials. There's high activity, high stability chromophores now in what we call limited availability. Some of the specs are shown in this table. I'm not going to go through the details, but I'm sure you will a little bit later. Going to the next one is, what's the commercial plan that's behind this data sheet? You can see here, Perkinamine is the 2 series, the 3 series, the 5 series, and then, you know, our team is working on the 6 series, and that's not ready yet. It's still in development.
In terms of licensing, these are the materials we expect to see licensing both this year and next year. For us, this is really exciting. We want to increase the commercial acceptance of our technology. I mean, when you think about what happened to the OLED business and the folks who did the OLED displays, they also wanted commercial acceptance. When I worked on the technologies in the nineties, I mean, blue and green, and they last a couple of hours, and I gave up on it, and I went off into semiconductors. You know, the folks in that area worked really hard, and they sorted all the problems out. Now we use it, and we don't even think about it. That's our material roadmap.
Third-party verification is always really important when you go talk to the end users because they ask you as a company what the performance is, but they also want to see if other people can use our materials and also get good performance. This is a bit of a word chart. I don't expect anybody to read any of this stuff because it's super technical, but the point is, I mean, there's the references at the bottom if you want to go and look up the papers. These are a bunch of companies. There's SilOriX, there's Polariton, there's KIT, there's a couple of others here, the ETH Zurich, which is a university. They've combined and used our material and produced world-class results, in fact, world record results. That's something we should be proud of.
Our EO polymer, used in different device designs, in silicon slots, in plasmonic slots, in plasmonic ring resonators, all have produced world-class results that have been shown at industry conferences, the OFC, the ECOC conference. This is pretty exciting. This is really good third-party review. Some of the market reactions we hear at some of these conferences, as well as talking to some of the end users, I don't know if I want to go through every one of these, but certainly, we fill the industry gap. We reduce the power consumption. These folks say, "We want to get on the list for a prototype. We want to run live traffic." Folks just come up to me and ask these things now. This is not pushing a technology like I was trying to do in 2017.
These are folks who are realizing we have something that's really exciting. What do I got here? Our investment, we... Look at this one here. At our foundry, we are worried about the investment into thin-film lithium niobate. That's one of our competitors. It may only be for one generation. With polymers, our investment will be worthwhile and better ROI. This is one foundry feedback. They see our technology going in terms of generations towards the end of the decade, and that's really exciting for these types of folks. They like the fact that, you know, you can put on our polymers quite easily. The hybrid PICs is a term that we've coined to show you can put polymers with silicon photonics, to get the best performance. Using foundries make really good business sense.
We hear that a lot. We do see the request for more reliability, and we're not going to be secret about this. I call it a reliability data set. That's what we're working on right now. Folks want to see more reliability results. We're doing that. There is other opportunities like LiDAR and sensing, too. The feedback has been strong and constructive, and that's exciting. In terms of investor relations, we work with the MZ Group. This is the data for the last 12 months. We can see that last 12 months since I had the last year's annual shareholder meeting. We've had 10 investor conferences, both in person and virtual, 26 press releases. I don't think it includes the one this morning, + 146% 30-day average volume.
I know the volume today has been really nice. It's probably over 3,000,000 now. 81 buy side and sell side meetings. We've been engaged a lot with the financial community. Look at this one, I mean, a + 154% increase in institutional ownership. That's really good. That's really exciting. That's just showing you that we're becoming on the radar, not just of the tech companies, but of the financial industry. You know, I think most people know we've been added to the Russell 2000. There's been an extremely active cadence of meetings with institutional investors, research analysts, et cetera. That's been pretty exciting. In terms of public relations for the last 12 months, this is the data that MZ Group have put together, 60 unique media opportunities.
They believe we've reached an audience of over 80,000,000 . That can expand to a much higher number, depending on how you want to look at it. That means we're reaching a lot of people. Then, you know, some of the things that we've done in terms of exposing ourselves, you know, Bloomberg Radio, Trade Talks, Laser Focus World. As some of you folks reminded me yesterday, that my children call me Doctor Doctor, and I checked with my son yesterday, and he said, "Yep, that's not going to change." That article came out last week, and it put the company in really good light. These things are happening on a regular basis, and I think there's going to be a few more coming up soon after the announcement this morning. That's great for us.
We're getting some really good presence, both in the industry and the financial side of things for a small cap company. To summarize, this slide shows you a bunch of boxes, but what do the boxes really represent? We have great material science. We have great technology. We're using that for designing state-of-the-art polymer, photonic integrated circuit designs. We've got high-speed design and packaging. We've got a powerful patent portfolio. We're entering some really exciting markets, selling components, licensing the materials, partnering with foundries and other players like transceiver companies. We're now developing material and device data sheets, and we have a world-class board, technical advisory board as well, as well as a team we're working with very closely, the MZ Group, that we feel has done a really nice job on the IR and the PR side of things.
What are the takeaways from the presentation? Our technology is competitively superior and unique. We continue to increase our commercial progress, and I guess today is the first public viewing of that. With our partners, we are positioned to scale polymers for optical networking, and we believe now we have the team, resources, and plans in place to really make polymers ubiquitous. I'll finish with one slide, and this is the one slide that's probably going to generate a lot of Q&A. It's the press release that came out this morning, and unfortunately, we didn't even have time to get it ready for everybody to come in this morning. I just want to focus on one thing. I mean, okay, the title is Lightwave Logic Begins Commercialization of EO Polymer Materials.
This thing here, this comment I made here, "This material supply license agreement for our Perkinamine chromophores recognizes market acceptance and competitive advantage of our technology and validates the first prong of our business model." It's that validation, the acceptance in the marketplace, that is really making myself and the team, which I think has done an incredible job to bring us to this point. It's not all my work. The team has done a great job of bringing the technology to a commercial data point, and that's all summed up in this press release as of this morning. I think that's it. Thank you. Officially, do you want to?
Yeah, we can now begin our question and answer session. I would ask everyone to limit their question to one per person so we can make sure we get everyone. Yeah, feel free to get started. Any questions?
Donald will ask you one.
I'll go first.
Okay, go ahead.
Doctor, Doctor, the slide talking about serviceable obtainable market share, it said by 2030 and then 2035 is where mass commercialization would most likely be taking place. Is that the proper way to interpret that slide from a timing perspective?
No, that is a market slide that we did not produce. It's not a slide. I mean, that data is produced by LightCounting, and it's what LightCounting sees as the market. Where is it?
It's that one.
Yeah, this one. Basically, what this slide says, this company, LightCounting, they do the market analysis of this market, and they talk to all the usual suspects, the data center companies, the transceiver companies. What they're forecasting is by 2030, the serviceable available market is gonna be about 10,000,000 units of these transceivers. What they're really saying is when they count it all up, it's gonna be about 110,000,000 units. That's a huge number of transceivers. This is 2035, all right? That's a big one, but I really didn't want to focus on 2035 because that's a long way out. When these market research companies look out, you know, 10 years, there's probably a little bit of an error bar here.
The point is, you know, their forecast for 2030, which is about here, is probably much more reasonable and much more accurate. When I look at this graph, the 10,000,000 units is probably a pretty good forecast of what the market needs in terms of the transceivers. This is the market we know we can get into with our partners.
Can you go one more slide over?
Yeah.
More to my question, 2030.
Yeah.
This category, that one, we really forecast is gonna be seven years before the numbers.
No, that just shows you the size of the market in 2030. I mean, this year just shows you how they see this market building. They see in 2025, there's gonna be about, what is it? 80,000. There's gonna be about 80,000, right? Here, it's gonna be about 3,000,000 . If we can get all of the 80,000, then we've attained our obtainable market. We may get more than 80,000, and then we'll be going into this market. This is our view of what we think is obtainable, given our resources. That could change. As we scale up and we get more confident in volume scaling, it's gonna move more towards this job.
Yes. Another question.
In relation to the same data slide that you're talking to, in terms of, like, 2025 with 80,000 units, if we got them all, that would be great, but are we talking Lightwave Logic devices inside of those units? How many modulators would be? I mean, you're saying you need to have 120 modulators in one transceiver, potentially. I mean, obviously, that's not for the first ones, but you know what I'm saying? Can you give us some indication as to? [crosstalk].
This will be the PIC chip.
PIC chip.
It'll be a chip. The chip may have a number of modulators on it.
Can we get some kind of estimation as to when, say, for example, in volume terms, we could reach a break even, not need outside financing?
We haven't given any guidance on break even at this point, but certainly we, with Jim and I, are looking at internally. Yeah, we haven't got to the point of being public about those types of metrics. I think the focus right now is to make sure we get market acceptance for our technology, but that's something, you know, we have a handle on internally.
Thank you, great job, Lightwave . Talking about that 80,000, I know you got to be careful with this one. How much, how much revenue, if somebody had 80,000, what is the revenue on that? What is the, what is the value that a Lightwave Logic would get out of that? I don't have a sense of, you know, is this a $25,000 chip, 80,000 represents $25,000. I know our margins are really fantastic but is there-
So-
Can you give us a sense of that?
Yeah. I mean, in terms of the model that we put together internally, transceivers are, you know, like any other technical product. When they first come out, they're really, really expensive, and they have a learning curve in terms of price reduction each year as they increase in volume. Our model follows just the normal metrics on that. We certainly haven't put in what the transceivers, the average selling price, and we haven't put in what we think the chips are in terms of the bill of materials at this time. We have internal numbers that we have on that, but we just haven't made those public yet. In terms of trying to really address your question, we see this as being super attractive, and we're continually working with the end users to get better clarity on those numbers, because these are brand-new markets. If you look backwards, you'll see some certain trends. We have a pretty good idea what those learning curves would be, how the price reductions would be, and what our profitability would be, but we haven't come public with that yet. Another question. Okay.
I'm curious about analyst coverage. It doesn't seem to me that you're gonna get any analyst coverage until you can discuss those type of numbers.
We've been talking to a number of analysts, research analysts, and I think as of right now, I don't believe anybody's covered us. I'm not the type of person that goes and talks to analysts and demands coverage. They will cover us when they have enough information. I mean, even this morning, a number of analysts were sending emails to me for more information. We're being watched, and we'll be monitored very closely. I can't predict when it will happen, but it was just like in 2017, I stood up here, and somebody said: "So when are we gonna go to the Nasdaq?" I said, I remember, if I remember correctly, I said, "We want to go organically when we're ready.
We don't want to do a reverse split or anything like that. It took us about three and a half, four years to do that. We will get research analyst coverage. I just can't tell you exactly when. What I can say is, that there's at least a half dozen people watching us really closely that I'm personally interacting with. So it may happen, but the focus for us is commercial progress. As long as we're making good commercial progress, the coverage will happen. I believe as of today, I don't believe there's any.
All right, just two questions. Now, there's been a growing volume of shorts against the company. It's ranging between 20,000,000 and 21,000,000 shares that we know of. Is there any investigation into illegal naked short selling activities?
We are aware of that situation, and internally, we've certainly been reviewing that with counsel, but that's really all we can say at this point.
Can you tell us how many foundries you're currently working with? At the end of last year, you said we were working with five. You had anticipated two more. If you've dropped some, why have you dropped some? The scaling issue, can you address scaling? Are you satisfied with the current scaling?
We haven't given any guidance, at least right now, on the number of foundries we did last year. We have much tighter relationships. In terms of scaling, we are much more comfortable this year with scaling than we were last year. I mean, I'll be honest with you, working with foundries is, yes, they love using the technology, and it's not difficult for them to utilize designs because we're compatible with silicon processing. They're doing the fabrication, and not us. It takes time to make sure that they're following the recipes correctly. What I can say is that the chips we're getting back from the foundries are performing really well. We've been very happy with that progress.
I will also say that some foundries are better than others. You would expect that anyway. Not all foundries are the same. Not all foundries have the same type of teams and take the same approach. There is some variability, but we've had a very successful year working with the foundries. I'm not gonna go into the number of foundries like last year, because I think it's much more important now as we're much closer to commercialization. We have to be a little bit more sensitive there. If I can, I will give some public guidance when it's appropriate.
Is there still a poling issue?
Is there a poling issue that you're still addressing hurdles?
We don't believe there's a poling issue. I know there's a lot of discussion about poling by investors and folks in the community. We don't see it as an issue.
Can you give us any idea as to when you might be able to reveal to us names of licensees?
No, I don't think I can answer that question. I would like to, but I don't think I can right now. Let's think about this. You know, this is our first material supply license. The impact of this is commercial market acceptance. That's really the impact. We have to look at what's really important with the press release this morning. You know, we made some commercial traction. The market accepts what we have, and I think at some point, we may be able to give some guidance, but It's not now.
One of the things that the long-term shareholders, we look at every word. Jim Marcelli, when he stood up there one time and said, "When this thing starts rolling, it's really gonna roll." I think we all have that in scripted somewhere in our... Now we have our first commercialization announcement. Is that rolling ball, do you anticipate that sometime in the near future, that you're gonna have even another one here pretty soon? Or is this kind of a gap, and you kind of wait and then something else comes?
I mean, I can't really give you any details of that, but what I can say is that, you know, this year I've been focusing on commercial activities. If you think about the business prong, license is one of those prongs, tech transfer is another one, and the third one is products. We're looking at all three of those. I can't give you any details of, you know, when all three are gonna hit, whether it's gonna be simultaneous, or one's gonna be more advanced than the other. What I can say is that we got first commercial material supply agreement, we published that today on the licensing side of things. What that has really done is that's shown. It's gonna show a lot of people that at least. There is really good market acceptance of our technology. It's not just an R&D electro-optic polymer material. This is something that somebody has taken very, very seriously, and that will expand. I can't give you any detailed predictions on that, other than the fact that my job is to really focus on expanding that business side of it.
First, Dr. Lebby, thank you very much for all the work that you and the team have brought to us as shareholders. Very, very much appreciated. I guess my question is, I saw a pivot that was very exciting for me. In the past, you made the connection, a lot closer to video demand, and then when you started, you say, reflecting more on artificial intelligence and the demand that is increasing, doubling every two to four months. I wanna make sure I heard that right?
Mm-hmm.
Do you see us being connected more in the future in that very hot sector, with artificial intelligence?
So- [crosstalk].
I guess my second one is following up. We didn't talk any about today, and I understand this, about the connections with super computing and Perkinamine 5. I just wonder if you'd reflect on our connections with some of those sectors going forward.
I think the way I've answered this question before in terms of artificial intelligence, is we're not directly connected, we're indirectly connected. Our technology is not going to affect the processing computational power of, you know, microprocessors or GPUs, because they're all electronics and they're all transistors. What it is gonna do is, because those chips are gonna be bigger and they're gonna generate more computational processing actions, if you like, that's gonna generate more traffic. More traffic means that the data that goes through the fiber optics is gonna fill up. Instead of having, you know, six freeway lanes full, you're gonna have 10 freeway lanes full. We see the effect of artificial intelligence indirectly really benefiting us because the traffic's gonna increase.
The traffic that's gonna go in and out of the data centers is gonna increase because of artificial intelligence. Yeah, our technology is not gonna go into a microprocessor IC, but it's gonna go in front of the laser that sends the light down the fiber optic, and if there's more traffic needs to be driven, yeah, we're gonna get that benefit. I also see that a little bit in supercomputing, but I think the big one is to watch how artificial intelligence really takes off. As we all know, there's positives and negatives about that, and even the government's talking about it. The interesting thing from our standpoint is people have gone crazy. This is really exciting.
I mean, everybody's, like, logging in and, you know, trying to generate, you know, paragraphs or letters a quarter the size by using keywords. I mean, we haven't really explored that effect yet. It's only really started. What we do know is that, you know, the Microsofts of this world and the Googles and the Amazons are investing billions of dollars to upgrade their data centers and their networks to support it, and that's great for us.
One other question on the presentation. You didn't really cover anything as far as the goals and, you know, previous goals and forward goals for next year. One thing that comes to mind is the tech transfer agreement. Can you tell us what is left to finalize the PDK and get a tech transfer agreement? You had spoken about joint PRs at some point. Can you give us some indication as to where we stand and what might be needed still in order to get a finalization of a PDK, and what goals we might have for next year?
Last year and the year before, I gave yearly goals, and I think that's okay if you're pre-commercial. You know, what we gave here is, you know, we gave more of a licensing roadmap. I mean, that's more sort of what you would expect from a commercial company. Doing yearly goals, I think, should step aside to, you know, real commercial goals. I think that's what we really should be looking forward to do. We've made really good progress with our PDKs. We haven't given too much in terms of detailed guidance, but we're very happy with our relationship with the founders, and so that's progressing very well. We will give more information as we feel comfortable with that, but that's progressing. I mean, like I gave an earlier answer, I'm not gonna get into too much detail, but you're right in that observation, and that's something we are aware of. Yeah.
Do you anticipate? [crosstalk]. Do you anticipate, end user validation, public validation in, quote, unquote, "the near term?" I mean, you've announced the partnership here, but it seems to me that the market might be looking for, you know, one of the large end user clients to validate the technology.
That's a question. It depends. Some of the end users are looking to get ahead of their competition, it just depends on who you're working with. That may happen, and it may not happen. If the end user wants to do that, we'll be there, giving guidance with the end user. You know, we're open to whatever situation is required. You know, if you looked at that competition slide with some other modulator technologies, there's other solutions there. Some folks looking at this are going, Well, if we can develop this quietly and get ahead of our competition, that's huge for us. You know, I can't give you a categorical yes or no answer, but it definitely depends.
Number two here. I hate to show my ignorance here, but, when a data center wants to do the forklift overhaul, it doesn't make sense for them to just change out 10% of the modulators or transceivers. You have to do the whole thing. Isn't that correct? It's like a weakest link in the chain, so your first order has to be millions, not hundreds.
That could very well be the case.
Thank you.
I'm afraid shareholders have already asked questions. Management will be around to take them afterwards, but if anyone who has not yet asked a question who would like to?
Did I see an aluminum electrode on that modulator?
You did.
Okay.
You spotted that very well.
That's good. Yeah. That's... Gold was an issue, right?
I mean, we've used both gold and aluminum. As you're aware, when you work with different foundries, you have to become competent with not just one metal. Yeah, well spotted. I'm happy to take questions afterwards, but maybe we should have a quick break so I can get a drink.
There are no further questions at this time. This concludes our question and answer session. Thank you for joining.