All right. Thanks for everybody for coming. I'm Bryan Keane. I cover FinTech here at Citi, and we're excited to have Ed McLaughlin, who's President and Chief Technology Officer at Mastercard. Ed and I have done a few of these in the past.
Yeah.
Every couple years, so we're due for an update here. Thanks for being here, Ed.
Good to see you again in a different context.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Different firm here.
Wanted to ask, to get into some of the specifics on Mastercard's technology and innovation, but just before we level set here, just wanted to talk a little. I know you've had a long history at Mastercard. Maybe you can talk about what you've done through Mastercard and maybe how that job's changed over the last several years.
Well, so much has changed, yeah. I have been with Mastercard about 20 years. I was part of the leadership team that was brought in when we were getting ready for our IPO. Prior to that, my background was technology startups. We did not know to call it FinTech then. I think we called it e-finance or something, but we caught up to that.
Yeah.
I joined the firm in 2005, and since then, I have run the global franchise. I was responsible for the emerging and digital payments. I was Chief Digital Payments Officer as we were doing the first wave through mobile. Was CIO for a while, and for the last decade, I have been the CTO for technology and operations for Mastercard. The engineering teams, infra teams, ops, customer care, tech hubs, all of that is sort of my purview. One quick one, actually, because I thought of this this morning. It was really amazing. When I joined Mastercard, the first project I worked on was this Buck Rogers first- in- the world contactless payments on the MTA in 2005, working with Citi and the MTA to see if such a thing would be possible. 200 ms to open the gate, use existing customer accounts.
A few months ago, when we got to celebrate the 20th anniversary of our IPO, I got to take the four train, the Lexington Avenue train, which is what we had piloted on, and watch hundreds of people tapping their devices and iPhones and Android phones to get onto the subway and not even thinking about it. For this conference, how much of this future we are living in now, Mastercard is such an integral part in creating the underlying technologies that made it. It was just an amazing thing to see.
Yeah, no doubt. No doubt. It has been a great 20+ years , I guess, in this business, in Mastercard. It is just really amazing. Wanted to talk about, obviously, the market kind of continues to evolve here rapidly, and you being on the kind of the frontier here on some of the tech trends. Just be interested in your thoughts on what you are seeing out there and how Mastercard’s technology is positioned.
Sure. I am sure that is something that every investor is very, very interested in. One thing that I would say for the tech trends is the advantage we see come with the scale, the assets, the global reach, the acceptance network we have, that we can all apply to the new technology areas. When I think about things like agentic commerce, which I am sure we are going to be talking about, or what we are seeing in cyber, both the defense and in cybersecurity and the marketing opportunities, and things like fighting fraud and working with our customers, where we see crypto and our recent acquisition of BVNK and how crypto and tokenized deposits fit into the Mastercard network structure. There are just amazing new technologies that are coming out that are going to help us do what we do better.
It also opens up new markets, commercial and the complexities that are there. We think a lot of the A2A work will really help with that. When we think about financial inclusion, how we can reach and serve people that we never could before, like we did through mobile, I think all of these things are coming together with both the technology and the market opportunity. But the one thing I will say is, from our thesis, it always stands on the principles that we have built the franchise with, right? To take advantage of these new opportunities, it has to start with trust. Trust from the merchants, trust from the consumers, trust from the regulators that we will have the right technology and we will do the right thing. What is the basis of trust? It is resilience. We know this. We are all consumers. That it works everywhere, every time, flawlessly.
Every person tapping their mobile to get onto the subway know that gate is going to open. That is the foundation of trust, and that is what we deliver. Then I would end with speed, right? How do we get the right things at the right time into consumers' hands, and how, as instant is getting a whole lot faster out in the marketplace, do we make sure our technology is fast enough to keep up with consumer desires?
Just thinking about the Mastercard and that card network, and that is the nuts and bolts of when you think of Mastercard. Can you just comment on how you have modernized that network and what that means and what it has unlocked for the business over the years?
I have to say, I haven't thought about it as a card network in years. I know where you're going with that one. When I think about the foundation network that powers Mastercard, the underlying payments transaction systems, and the reason I'm joking about card is it's probably been six, seven years that the majority of our transactions have been non-card-based. If you think of the vast preponderance, which is tokenization, device-based, subscription, and other type of things, we really are a general-purpose multi-rail payment network that we're running now within a tremendous heritage in cards. You didn't ask, but one question I get all the time is, "Well, when does the card go away?" The answer, in my mind, is when the last person wants one, right?
We have something that works great that everyone loves that we can then add all the new experiences they want on that. When you think about how we're modernizing the network, it really does start with what we call contextual commerce. Think about all the new and different ways that you can use the Mastercard network, and I think there's few players in the world that are more advantaged by the freedom from getting out of the physical world into the digital world. The card was always just a token we gave you to get you back onto our network. How and where you can use your Mastercard credentials, that's changing rapidly, and that's adding more and more opportunity to what we have in the network.
It's also geographic as we're modernizing, the ability to make sure that we can run servicing and processing and persistence anywhere in the world. We operate in 210 different regulatory domiciles and countries around the world. The ability to distribute processing, like you probably saw earlier this year, we're now doing end-to-end transaction authorization in Europe, building on work that we've done in South Africa and other countries. Our ability to reach our customers and serve our customers where they are is a big part of the modernization. Other things I would add is the infrastructure side, our ability to leverage public, private, and sovereign clouds as infrastructure, all connected by that global network fabric.
Maybe the last part you've seen, and maybe the most profound transformation in our business over the last few years, that virtuous cycle as we continue to add more and more services before, during, and after the transaction. A big part of the tech modernization has been the services enablement to leverage not only the transaction flow to make it that much more valuable, to get us more transactions into the system, but also how we can enrich and augment it and create new value streams.
Yeah, you talked about trust and thinking about Mastercard's technology and that network operations. How do you think about, especially in this day and age, the security of it, the resilience, the flexibility, and what keeps you up at night that you constantly have to make sure you're protecting against?
I will say the operations, the security, the resilience, that's what keeps you up during the day, right? That's the job. That's what we do and obsess about every day and every time, right? There are a lot of changes, so we're constantly working to see what might be the next set of opportunities or threats that are coming in the network, and maybe those are the late-night thoughts of how are things changing and what's next and ensuring that we're going to be ready for it. But for security itself, one of the conversations I'm sure as investors everyone is engaged in is this question of attacker and defenders. As new capabilities are coming online, are firms more vulnerable? Are they able to get greater capabilities to defend themselves? I think the answer is both are true.
Right now, particularly in the short term, I think a lot of firms that have never been on the front line before are seeing a whole new set of, I'll call mass-scaled attempts on their networks. It's not anything that's new or novel, but the speed and scale and scope of those attacks are now AI-powered and enabled, and that's what we have to be ready for. Mastercard was always faced with very, very sophisticated nation-state actors, others who would test and probe what we were doing. We see that amplified right now. But over the long term, and I think it fits in with many of your thesis, I think the advantage goes to the defenders with these powerful new tools, but only those that can afford the defense and have the scale and discipline to be able to do it.
I do think there is, any time the market becomes more complex, in essence becomes more expensive in some ways, there's a benefit that goes to the scale players that can amortize across a much bigger footprint. We are investing heavily in cyber, cybersecurity, both to defend our network, also as a real opportunity for us to, again, create more value, serve our customers better, and generate new revenues. You've already seen with AI and what we've done with our decision management platform in fighting fraud today, it's a multi-billion dollar business for us. For the last decade, Mastercard has been a leader in AI. I think that becomes a really big part of where you see our opportunities and advantages going forward. I'd start with that. Resilience is also something you build in.
We had an example that some of you may have seen where in Africa, there was a conflict, or as part of the conflict in the Red Sea, there was a massive cable cut as an anchor drag took out a bunch of the cables going up one side of the continent. There was a natural disaster, a landslide undersea on the other side of the continent, and a lot of the bandwidth was diminished. Many organizations took real impact there. It's a tribute to the resiliency of our network that we were able to ride through that. We'll continue to invest in the scope and resiliency we need for the critical infrastructures that we're providing.
Got it. As an analyst, I get often the question about the competitive environment.
Oh, yeah.
People are always trying to understand potential new competitors into the market. I'm thinking about, I get asked about Wero in Europe and the A2A rails—
Yeah.
—as competition, like, "Oh, there's going to be volume coming off of Mastercard versus these competing networks." Can you just talk a little bit about some of the reasons why Mastercard continues to take share and what's competitive and what's not when you look at some of these other options?
Yeah. Maybe it goes back to the idea of change being the constant, and so much is changing. We talked about the last 20 years' experience at Mastercard. It has always been a highly competitive market. Each time we see some of these big market transitions, there's always questions of new and emerging competition. We saw it in e-commerce, we saw it in mobile, we saw it in digital. We'll see it in the current AI and agentic era. It gets back to the values that we have at the network, the scale and distribution we already have, the operations skill and discipline, the acceptance network that we can bring and tailor to these new environments. Really, the only arbiter of whether a competing technology or solution or a Mastercard solution gets adopted is the experience of the consumer.
It's the value it provides to the merchant, it's the compliance to the regulations within the marketplace, and those are all areas that we've excelled. If you look during this highly competitive period from, I'd say about 2020 till now, we've gone from switching 60% of our transactions to over 72% of our transactions. That's materially the market voting during this time that the value of the Mastercard network was bringing, and their ability to serve their interest in business better by working through Mastercard is one of those things you pay off. I'll tie back to some of, again, our AI investments, the ability to fight fraud, the ability to provide things like Zero Liability consumers or guaranteed payments to merchants. Those are the real values that Mastercard has always had.
I have no doubt it'll be a competitive market, it'll continue to be a competitive market, but the assets we have, the capability we have to innovate and bring new value into the market, I think that's the key differentiator for us versus others that are out there. But we earn that every day.
Wanted to move over to AI and agentic commerce. Can you just talk about some of the risks and opportunities AI presents to Mastercard and your services suite?
Sure. Well, let me start with, and we touched on it earlier, some of the risks. Clearly in the cyberspace, how AI can be used for that. I break it into two things. You have attacks on the network that we talked about, the attacker, defender, and where we are there, and the vigorous defenses that we put up and vigilance we always have. We are also seeing a lot of attacks using payment systems, and that is the whole scam environment that we see, the fraud environment that we see. And that is where getting back to the value of a Mastercard and the brand promise is so important, is people do have recourse. We do stand behind those transactions for them as opposed to some of the competitive alternatives that you have talked about.
We have made significant investments and are generating a lot of value in the entire ecosystem in our network and helping people fight fraud. We stop tens of billions of dollars of fraud attempts every day. We continue to up the AI models and capabilities we have to prevent that. One of the ones we have talked about quite publicly is our Decision Intelligence, or now our DI Pro, where we found not only in certain super high-risk sectors a massive shift in our ability to detect fraud, up to 300% sometimes, but also what we are seeing is that it is reducing the number of signals and false positives, so more good business comes through the network. So that is how we are harnessing new technologies and new capabilities to both defend the network as well as to protect everyone who is using it.
I think it is that use of the unique data we have, the heritage we have in applying it to generate new value that will really help us in the baseline AI era. AI is much more than the question of what we are doing in cyber or what we are doing to prevent scams. When I think about it from Mastercard as an entity, it has benefited us in so many ways already. All of our employees, very early on, we gave access to AI productivity tools to make sure they could do it, use it to use their job better, and we have seen strong results from that.
But the more important thing I think we did is we looked at each of our jobs and our job families as a collection of skills, and we said, "What's the workbench that helps them do that job better?" And probably the clearest area and one closest to my heart is what we've seen in software engineering. So 100% of our developers have AI assistance for the software engineering they're doing. In certain areas, we've seen not only 50% increases in throughput, but a real reduction in defects and an increase in the quality of work that's coming through there. And it's not the access to the tools. It's the learning, the focus, it's building the harnesses, it's applying it to your environment where we've made those investments and we're seeing real return.
So you'll see AI helping, not generically, but very, very specifically across different jobs and job families. So AI supporting the sales and sales function, AI supporting product management and product development functions, and that's really what we're seeing with that workbench concept, and it's paying off for us well. The other thing is if you think about operations, another thing near and dear to my heart. So much of what we do in ops is things like signals intelligence, managing the fleet, understand what we're doing. So again, this idea of human- computer interaction and to be able to offload some of the cognitive things that would always been part of operations, to run more efficiently, to be able to scale more, to distribute more around the network. We're seeing solid returns there on that.
And maybe the last is AI enabling the value or the products and sales we've had. So for years, we've used machine learning, back propagation, AI techniques to fight things like fraud. Now we're seeing with the introduction of agentic and cognitive, we can make our services and our services and offerings that much better. So you may have seen things like our Virtual C-Suite, where we're providing small businesses access to those tools to help them run their business better and get expertise. We have another one I love is our customers and issuers can configure rules on our network itself. Great differentiated capability, but it can be complex. So we're adding agentic capabilities to help them better define and run the business they're doing with Mastercard.
And then the last, and it goes back to where we started, things like contextual commerce, where how do we bring the value of the Mastercard network and enable it for everyone using AI to change consumer experiences out in the field? And that's, I always say, the history we've done and what we're building on is whether that transit example I gave you at the beginning, to apply our network, or an Amazon in e-commerce, or an Uber in mobility, a Spotify in digital media, all of those have benefited from being able to access the Mastercard network. And our consumers benefit by being able to have access to all these new experiences, and that's where we really see the agentic and agentic payment side coming in.
Yeah. Then just to follow up on that, on agentic commerce, we have obviously seen Muse and others launch recently. How do you guys see that kind of agentic commerce evolving, and what are some of the revenue opportunities?
Yeah.
We always get the question, is it a positive? Is it a neutral? How do you think about that as we move to agentic?
Yeah, I would say a couple of framing thoughts on this one for everyone, because I know there are so many questions around that. In some ways, it is what we do all the time in technology. It is a question of clarity and proximity. I think the clarity is absolutely there. We have already seen over 40% attributed product searches or consumers searching for information about products they are going to buy are AI-assisted in some way today. So, for certain of those products they are researching, taking the next step of saying, "Okay, great, now buy it for me," just simply seems like a logical next step. Now, are the agents there today? Some are doing better than others. It is a mixed bag, but you can see the direction of travel of where it is, and the question is the timeline for that.
What it means for consumers is something we have seen over and over again. They want to know that the environment is ready, that Mastercard is ready for them when they want to take advantage of that. Again, the only arbiter of a new way of doing things, new contextual commerce, is the value consumers perceive out of it. So, actually, before we came up, we were joking about this. We saw this with mobile payments a dozen years ago when we launched Apple Pay. One of the top consumer questions was, "Can I still use my card?" The answer was, "Of course." Then they were very interested and excited for that first, second, third tap they started to do on their mobile, and it has really been a decade that we saw the behavior transition. I am sure you will see the same thing with agentic.
People want to be able to take advantage of it for a specific use case, for things they want to do, but what will be most important to them is, can I use my existing credentials with my existing accounts and make it part of the way I do things? Because I am still going to tap to get on the subway. I am still going to have a Netflix subscription. I am still going to be going into the grocery store and want to use my account in different ways, and agentic becomes additive to that, which is how we see it as a great new revenue opportunity. It is not only in the consumer payments that I know we are all focused on, because we are all consumers. Think about the complexities of B2B.
As that gets more streamlined, the ability to inject things like virtual cards and the advantages of the Mastercard network actually become easier to introduce that into the environment. We also announced earlier in this year machine-to-machine payments, and I think that is a whole new economic sector that is going to come out as agents who want to source from other agents need a financial underpinning to which to do so. The ability to use the existing networks and tap into the 3.7 billion accounts we already have on the network becomes a huge advantage for that. We see new types of commerce. We also see what used to be monolithic transactions potentially becoming multiple transactions. People take things that used to be a subscription, a set and forget, and have their agent become much more dynamic around that.
I think it becomes very, very additive, not only to Mastercard's network and our opportunity, but for consumers' corporate lives as they introduce this to do things they couldn't do before or things that were hard to do before. So, really, really excited about the potential there. I think the good news is, just like we said, when do cards go away? When does agentic happen? It is when individual consumers around the world decide it is better for them, and they will want to tap into it. One final thought, because it does come back to those foundations. Just like Mastercard helped define and invent the tokenization and token standards that mobile payments are based on, we have the same thing for Agent Pay, and it is already out in the marketplace. So, the ability to get a secure token that you can dedicate to your agent.
Years ago, in Internet of Things, we had talked about non-human actors participating in the system, and we are building on that foundation. So, I can put a secure Mastercard token from my account into my agent, just like I might have put it in my subscription service or put it into my mobile earlier. We have now parameters around what we call Verifiable Intent, so we know this is what you intended to do. Strong identity for agent actors so merchants can know who they are doing business with, just as we have always identified merchants on our network. And the ability to provide consumer protections around those transactions. That is why OpenAI, Spotify, and others are really adopting and partnering with us on this agentic framework.
Just as we've seen in each era, e-commerce, mobile, digital, now agentic, I think it's getting the right frameworks and parameters in place, which we have. It's the ability to use the scale and acceptance of our network, which is there today, and allow consumers to figure out in their lives and in what context this makes the most sense for them. Our promise, that brand promise, is Mastercard is already ready for it for when you are, and that's where we see a growth opportunity.
Another big growth avenue, obviously, is what we're seeing in digital money.
Yeah.
Blockchain and digital assets continue to evolve. How is Mastercard playing in this space, and what opportunities are there to capitalize on the growth?
Well, it's always and already been a big tailwind for us, and I think with the CLARITY Act and other things that have helped normalize some of the regulation around it's been really, really helpful. But what you've already seen is that interface between the fiat world and the crypto world is something we've always enabled. So it's another way that you can use your Mastercard credential or your payment instrument to move money into and out of what we would see in the crypto world. The other thing, just like we talked about agentic, there will be environments where a programmable crypto piece of money is a better solution. So through our BVNK acquisition, we have the ability not only to bring money into and out of the crypto world, we have crypto- native capabilities that we can introduce into the network as a true multi-money network.
We've processed well over 100, I think over 150 different currencies today. Adding new currency and payment types to the network is actually a pretty natural extension. It will allow us to work with new crypto, just like we've worked with fiat money in the past, and leverage the scale and the acceptance and the capability the network always has. I think it will allow us, particularly in sectors like cross-border, maybe in the machine-to-machine or agentic-to-agentic payments that we've talked about, have a different programmatic underpinning, which gives you new capabilities, but one that actually ties into and augments the multipurpose or general-purpose network that we have.
You mentioned BVNK. You guys have made several acquisitions in the sector. When you think about it from a technical perspective, what does BVNK have or some of the assets that you're making you couldn't build yourself, that buy was the better option?
Yeah. I have to give it to you from a technical perspective because that's what I do. Anytime we see a shift happening or an opportunity happening in the marketplace, you go through the analysis. Do you develop it yourself? Do you partner with someone for that? Do you make a strategic acquisition to bring it in? Really, I think the key on a strategic acquisition for us is where can we get differentiated assets that immediately augment the value of our network, that will also benefit from coming through Mastercard distribution and the other capabilities that we have? As every investor knows, that's how you make and balance those decisions. BVNK, I think, was a great example with their history and operations they already had in the crypto space.
The ability to immediately add that to what we had done for bridging money in and out of the crypto space, and the ability to have those capabilities rapidly added to the network at a proven level just accelerated everything that we were wanting to do. There was no need or reason to recreate it when we had a great asset and a previous partnership with them around that. I'll highlight another example, and this is one of the ones that I've been just so happy is now part of our system. A few years ago now, I think, we brought in a company called Recorded Future, and they do signals intelligence for threat.
If you think of everything that is now happening and what we talked about earlier in the attackers and defenders and AI and crypto space and everything that is going on, working with Recorded Future, first, it expanded the buying centers that we are talking to. Half of their business was, non-mathematical half of their business, a portion of their business was working with things like government agencies. We now have a channel where other Mastercard capabilities we are already engaged with and partners with new types of firms around there. As we build our cyber business, it becomes a great channel for us. They also had unique data and insights, and data is the hardest thing to reproduce, right? It becomes the real asset in the AI era.
Their knowledge of what was going on in the cyber and crypto space and our ability to bring that back into our fraud scoring systems to make them smarter than anything else out there, because they had access to underlying data that none of our competitors would, the ability to bring that and work with our customers in new ways as they are looking at what are their cyber threats and the information they want, the signals they want, just like the government agencies used to want those signals to make their security operations all that better. It was a great way of getting a whole unique new dataset that would make what we were doing richer, that would get us access into buying centers we did not have before, and we could immediately bring it into the network to scale it and bring value for it.
Those are the type of things that I look at, and I think you will continue to see us constantly looking in the market for those accretive ways that we can accelerate things that we would want to do anyway, get access to unique data or assets that would be hard to reproduce, that have been incubated for a while, and the ability to scale it through the existing distribution channels that Mastercard have. That is really been the winning formula for us in our acquisitions across the years, and you will continue to see us focus in that area.
It is fair to say here, especially talking, that change is the one constant here.
Yeah.
So, I guess, in that, if we keep that in mind, what are some of the five or so non-negotiables when you think about critical building, scaling, and managing technology, and will help Mastercard continue to win in the future?
Five? So you're going to back me into an enumerated list?
Yeah. I call out five.
I got to pick—
Three to five.
Three to five. All right, out of the universe. Well, like any good technologist, I want to start at zero, right? You start at position zero. The one thing I just want to highlight, we talked about earlier, is I think has always been, but particularly going forward, trust will be the highest card because of all the change, because of everything that's happening. I always say the Mastercard brand is a promise. You all know it if you're using a Mastercard, right? That it will work every time, that we will be a good steward of the data and information that comes from the network and how we use it to make the services that you get better. Trust that we have the highest level of ethics as an organization, and I think that is a huge asset in uncertain times.
Everything I would talk about, I think reinforces and underpins Mastercard's trusted position with consumers, regulators, merchants, and others around the world. Hard asset to reproduce and one we defend every day. If I had to then think about what are some of the key elements that help us through or will allow us to thrive in this area with so much change and so much happening, I will come back to scale. The advantages that the datasets we have, when I look at things like applying AI to transaction history, we have a relevant training set of half a trillion transactions easily that we can pick up signals that no one else can. That fraud attack that's happening in Portugal right now will be in Bolivia next week, and we can see that and share that.
The scale of what we have across the network, our ability to make investments in things like cybersecurity and bring them to partners is a real advantage and a real advantage we can go down. Having 100+ million acceptance points, almost 200 million acceptance points, I think, around the world are a scale that we can bring to anyone. Having 3.7, I think, billion accounts on the network will allow a new agentic player to tap into a scale that they can only get through a Mastercard. We'll continue to emphasize the natural advantages that gives us and play as a scale player in the marketplace, because as we've seen over and over and over again in technology, there's natural advantages to there. Second, I'd say speed. Our chief architect would love to say instant is getting a whole lot faster.
The things you are seeing us do, for example, with same-day settlement, people getting the money through the system faster. The speed of being able to bring new products to market as we apply AI into our engineering and being able to get that value out to our consumers faster. Even just the speed for consumers to make sure that you are getting the instant, the feedback loops, the reactions you want. A real emphasis, I think, not only scale, but the speed it can give. While I stay with the S is security, and we have talked about that already. It is foundation to the trust, it is foundation to the mission, it is who we are to make sure that as we run these critical infrastructures around the world, we are always delivering the highest level of security.
That security also gives us commercial advantage, as we can use those investments in security to generate value for customers across the network that will benefit from that value that we are creating for it. Resilience, we have talked about that. I think resilience goes unsaid, right? The knowledge that your Mastercard will always be there, land anywhere in the world, we will be there every time. I think as a Mastercard cardholder, you have seen that resilience in action. That is that foundation that we will continue to leverage new technologies for, and we will make sure we invest in any new technological solution we have. If that agent doesn't work, it will be a long time before you go back to it. If it works flawlessly, you would always want to use that with your Mastercard. Resilience is a key in the future.
I will end, and it was funny, we just did an update to our board of directors on our tech strategy, and it is kind of funny to have to say this as a tech guy, but in the end, I think any technology approach, any tech strategy is actually a people strategy, right? All this capability, all this great stuff is available to everyone. It is who we are, how good we are at it, and the purposes we put it towards. That is where I feel great. That is where I feel the best about Mastercard is over the 20 years, the skill, capability, the expertise of our technologists in payments technology as we keep inventing the future. That foundation is probably the greatest asset we have is the people.
I will end on people, because the one thing I can also assure you is we never ever forget who it is for. This is how people get access to what they need for their families. It is how they get to work in the morning. It is how you can land anywhere in the world with complete confidence that you can get a car, you can get to your hotel because you are using our Mastercard. We take that mission to heart every day. That is where the trust comes from. That is what enables and animates all the use of technology that we have, is who it is for.
All right. With that, Ed, I think we are all a little bit smarter. Thanks for that and thanks for being here.
Thank you. Take care.