Everybody, why don't we get started here? Welcome. This is the Macerich Roundtable. Very happy to have Jack Hsieh with us this afternoon, who's the CEO of the company. Jack, why don't you introduce your team, and then I'll turn it over to you for some opening remarks.
Great. All right. Good afternoon, everyone, and thanks, Samir, for hosting this conference. Just want to introduce my team. Dan Swanstrom, he's our CFO. Doug Healey is our EVP, Head of Leasing. Brad Miller is our Senior Vice President, Head of Portfolio Management, and Alexandra Johnstone is our Vice President of Investor Relations and Financial Strategy with Dan. I apologize. I'm going to read some prepared remarks so I don't forget, and you all can ask a lot of questions, I'm sure, afterwards. I'll start with two years ago at this conference, we were basically launching the Path Forward plan 1.0, and it was really just a plan at that point.
I'm happy to say today, after 3.0, we've largely de-risked the Path Forward plan, and I'm extremely excited about the opportunity that not only are we seeing within the portfolio, but the organic growth within the portfolio as well as some of the external growth opportunities that we're seeing today in the market. Just as a reminder, the Path Forward plan rests on three critical pillars. The first is simplifying the business, the second is improving operating metrics, and the third is reducing leverage. In June, at NAREIT, as you all know, we produced the Path Forward 3.0 version, and we are meaningfully ahead of all three of the Path Forward presentations that we've put out at this point. We've completed approximately $1.3 billion of the $2 billion dispositions that were part of our plan.
Our expectation is another $300 million to $400 million of dispositions or loan give backs by year-end, which will bring our total up to $1.6 billion to $1.7 billion out of the two as part of the plan. From a leverage perspective, our current net debt to EBITDA is 7.3 times, which is about 1.5 turns below where we were at the outset of Path Forward 1.0, but two years ago. Most importantly, with the capital that we raised recently, as well as the SNO pipeline coming in, we expect to be plus or minus just around six times net debt to EBITDA by 2028. Operational performance begins and ends with leasing. I'm sure we'll talk a lot about leasing. We've gotten a lot of questions on leasing in our one-on-ones. But the momentum from our record leasing in 2025 has carried through into 2026.
I'm sure most of you have heard about our leasing speedometer, but that speedometer currently sits at 89%, which I think is an awesome accomplishment by the team. If you think about tariffs, wars, all kinds of stuff happening. In spite of that, we've been able to do a tremendous amount of new leasing as part of this plan. Of the roughly 1,000 new leases that were part of the base plan of the Path Forward, we have 950 committed at this point, either committed or under LOI. That really leaves 50 left. Doug, I'm sure we'll talk a little bit later, but we really don't have much new leasing inventory left as part of the plan. Our 2026 renewals are done.
We're well into 2027, and so our leasing teams now are really focused on 2029, 2030, and evaluating a lot of the new acquisition opportunities that we're looking at. With this leasing component of our plan largely behind us, our attention for the team has flipped to convert. So that means basically getting tenants open and paying rent on time. That's what we talk about our RCD, which you'll see our rent commencement schedule slide speedometer. So this is basically an algorithm that we focus on to make sure that we can deliver income SNO on time as scheduled, that we talked about. Our rent commencement schedule stands at about 59% right now. So out of 1,000 spaces that we've talked about, 485 are open and paying rent. 75 are under construction. There's a big group that are in the basically lease permitting stage.
We've got 120 or so leases out that we're negotiating, trying to bring to fruition, and we have 100 LOIs that we're moving towards getting to the point where we can go through and approve these leases. Then, as I said, there's about 55 prospecting that are spread across the go-forward portfolio. One of the things about this operational metric is it's intended to bring more transparency in our progress as we move tenants from LOI to store opening. As you all know, our signed but not open pipeline has reached $128 million out of the $140 million total opportunity that we talked about back two years ago in Path Forward 1.0. Just as a reminder, this is committed organic growth that flows through NOI in 2028.
In order to improve center vibrancy and increase foot traffic and sales, addressing vacant anchor stores was a critical component of our plan, and I reiterated this. All 30 of the targeted vacant anchors are now committed, which is comprising 2.9 million sq ft, and we expect to generate something in the order of $750 million in sales. But more importantly, it's going to drive traffic and leasing into those former vacant wings, which were very difficult to handle. As I noted on our Q2 earnings call, we expect go-forward NOI to grow at least 3% this year, back-end weighted, which implies at least 3.5% NOI growth expected in the second half of 2026. Then to accelerate meaningfully in 2027 and 2028 as the SNO pipeline tenants continue to open and begin paying rent.
Some of our best centers today, such as Kierland Commons, Broadway Plaza, Scottsdale Fashion Square, and Tysons Corner, are the ones that are furthest along in this elevate and transform strategy. They are meaningfully posting our strongest traffic, sales, and NOI growth as compared to the go-forward portfolio average. It is an exciting template that we are experiencing and seeing. We are confident that the mid-stage development, mid-stage transformation, and early-stage transformation assets that are following are going to experience a similar growth profile. Finally, that brings me to the concept of acquisitions, which is our external growth engine. Let me be clear on how we are approaching growth. We are extremely disciplined, extremely careful on the things that we buy, the things that we believe we can add value to through leasing, development, or intensive asset management. We want assets that are accretive to our plan.
We want assets that are accretive to 2028, and we are focused on strong trade areas and particularly where there might be a catalyst in the center to improve the direction of the property. Most importantly, we want to make sure that they can be financed within the leverage targets that we have outlined. I think what is different today, as it relates to this opportunity set, is our pipeline is basically the most robust it has been in the last two years. It is a combination of off-market and marketed transactions. On the marketed transactions side, if you were to compare malls that we have interest in today that are being marketed, they are meaningfully higher in number and volume as compared to a year ago or a year before that, when we were looking at Crabtree.
We are very confident in our ability to be very selective and very successful as it relates to external growth. With our recent equity offerings, we have the capacity to act on this pipeline in this current environment. No one is building new Class A regional malls. Capital selective and the best retailers are concentrating in the best centers. Macerich has a unique advantage that differs from many other buyers. We have a fully integrated operating and leasing platform, deep national retailer relationships, attractive cost of capital and liquidity, and the speed and certainty to close. That is why sellers or retailers have been engaging with us, most recently at this moment, just like in Crabtree and the Indianapolis case study. To summarize, we are ahead of schedule on the Path Forward plan.
We believe the plan is significantly de-risked, and we have structural tailwinds behind us in the business that will only get stronger, particularly with Gen Z and how they are showing up in the malls and with brick-and-mortar retailers. Our plan has us on track to achieve higher permanent physical occupancy, increased foot traffic, which will drive NOI, lease demand, and rental rates within our portfolio, embedded rent growth, stronger balance sheet, and a portfolio of truly irreplaceable assets in the country's most desirable markets. Our disciplined execution on the acquisition strategy and concrete steps we have taken to improve the balance sheet at the same time position us as an attractive earnings growth story for several years to come. Thank you all for your interest, and Samir will open up for questions or whatever we can talk about.
Yeah, I'll start. I want to keep this interactive, so if you have any questions, please dive in. You talked about that $128 million of that SNO pipeline.
Yeah.
Talk to us kind of how that, what's the biggest risk right now to converting that pipeline into NOI on the timeline you expect?
There's virtually very little risk. These leases are basically, at this point, secured with national retailers. We have a process in place to go through delivery of premises, work through the existing tenant that might be in place. So it's really just more blocking and tackling Mall 101, which this company knows how to do. To me, I think if you were asking me, what's the risk? It's not in the plan anymore.
Yeah.
We only have 50 spaces that are unaccounted for right now. Of those 50 spaces, several are in Tysons Corner. There's a couple in Scottsdale Fashion Square. They're generally really good space. We're just trying to get the right tenant at the right rate into those units. So virtually little risk on that. The new properties that we're evaluating, I take a lot of care and comfort. Can we re-lease these properties? Do they have the right dynamics in the marketplace, the right competitive position? We're going to, at some point, and it might be later this year.
Yeah.
Talk to you about the change in Crabtree since we've acquired it. The leasing momentum. We've talked broadly speaking about what's happened there. The pro forma is better. The lease rates are better. We just secured a very important tenant that's going to elevate that entire next step of tenants coming into that mall. I think when people see that, they're going to get comfort in our ability to execute. When I think about acquisitions going forward, I do need leasing environments to continue to stay the way they are because these are generally assets that may have some SNO, but also have a value-add component to it, which we're very comfortable with. Yeah.
But I guess going back to the $128 million of NOI, how does that flow? Is that majority in 2028 that's going to?
Yeah.
Yeah, so.
Spread between 2027 and 2028.
Okay.
Yeah, just to drill down on that a little bit more, Jack talked about the $128 million now being in place or committed, which gives us clear visibility into the total opportunity set of 140 that we outlined at the beginning of the plan. Samir, to your point, in our updated presentation that we put out yesterday, you can kind of see the estimated annual contribution by year. This is on a gross revenue basis of $40 million. Sorry, $30 million in 2026, $40 million- $45 million in 2027, and then sort of ramping up to $45 million- $50 million in 2028. So that is what's underlying this really strong NOI growth that Jack talked about in his prepared remarks, really accelerating and ramping into 2027 and 2028 based on this SNO pipeline that we're almost done executing against.
All the 30 anchors at this point have been committed, right?
You can see on that schedule.
You can see that as well.
You can see in the footnote.
We have 30 anchors committed. We are really excited about these. These are exciting experiential concepts like DICK'S House of Sport, Dave & Buster's, Level99, that are really driving traffic to these centers. We estimate that they will cumulatively contribute about $750 million of sales to these centers, which should drive in-line traffic. We provided an update in terms of the status of those. We now have seven open. Earlier this summer, we opened a DICK'S House of Sport in Freehold, which was an exciting opening, really increased traffic there. It was one of the highest performing DICK'S openings. Most recently at our Annapolis acquisition, we just opened a DICK'S House of Sport there. We have seven open, 13 under construction, five executed, and five lease out. At the bottom of the page, you can see the cumulative openings by year.
We have four this year, 13 next year, and eight in 2028. These will be really strong catalysts to the centers and really position the centers for strength moving forward.
Talk a little bit about the balance sheet that is still a little elevated. It is down from where it was.
Yeah.
A little elevated. What more do you think you could do? What the timeline is?
Yeah, sure. Happy to do that. When Jack and I started, we were close to nine times debt to EBITDA. We outlined in version 2.0, which was our June 2025 NAREIT, low to mid six times debt to EBITDA, and the various pillars or tools that we were going to use to get there. We've executed nicely against those, and in our most recent NAREIT presentation from June of 2026, version 3.0, we improved that target debt to EBITDA down to six times, plus or minus. As Jack alluded to in his remarks, at the end of last quarter, we were 7.3 times. If you include the forward equity, we're a little below seven times.
We have clear visibility with that SNO pipeline that I just talked about, with the organic NOI growth from there, and a little bit of proceeds from our out parcels to achieve that six times, plus or minus, debt to EBITDA.
That includes any capital for the same pipeline?
That's all reflected in there.
It's all reflected.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Six is still a little elevated to some of your peers. Do you think that'll continue to?
I think one of the unique opportunities that we have is we can buy assets all equity and still be accretive financially and delever. The $370 million forward that we issued, if we buy an asset that's in the stabilized 9%-11% range, all equity, it's about $0.02-$0.04 accretive all equity, and it'll reduce leverage by 25 basis points. We do that three times, we're down in the fives. If we decide to do it that way. I think that one of the considerations for us internally is the convert gave us the opportunity to potentially pursue an unsecured investment-grade rating, if we so choose. If we were to do that, I'd like to be in the low fives if we decide to actually get on that kind of process. Secure mortgages gave us the put rights to be able to accomplish this plan.
We wouldn't be able to do it if we were an unsecured borrower. I think we'll make that evaluation. I think in the current environment, with the total addressable acquisition opportunity out there's a couple different ways to delever the business that are earnings accretive, which I think are good.
Correct me if I'm wrong, your rates are weighted average by like 4.75%, 5%, something like that on your debt?
In terms of existing debt?
Existing debt, yeah.
There's a range. We've assumed in our Path Forward plan all basically maturities through the end of the 2028 plan, we assume a 6% refinancing rate. Some are marked up, some are marked down. It varies.
Yeah. Our access to debt, obviously, if we're in the term loan market, we're probably on a five-year swapped inside of 6%. If we're doing a CMBS, we're probably 6%. The convert, obviously, is good for us because we're going to refinance 2.75% with some of the secured debt that we have at north of 6%.
Yeah. I seem to remember you don't have a lot of really low debt coming due the next few months.
No. We've got a loan in Fresno that's.
In terms of the rate?
Yeah.
Like I said, there is a balance. There are a few that are coming due that are below that 6% assumption we use in the forward plan, but there are others that are north of that 6%.
You are buying at cap rates, which are quite high for developers where we were 10 years ago, five years ago.
Yeah.
Pick a number. What does that suggest for the value of the assets that you own in terms of?
It is interesting, Green Street, we bought two properties. We bought Crabtree, they started revising cap rates down. I called Green Street, I was like, "That is one mall. There is almost 1,000 malls. Are you really going to rerate everything based on this one cap rate?" He is like, "Yeah, that market. We used the most recent market data." "Okay." Then I bought Annapolis, in the tens. They started rerating again. All of a sudden, cap rates in Green Street underwriter going back down again. I said to them, "What is really going to change cap rates is debt yields." Right now, debt yields on Class A, class whatever, you are not getting inside 10 debt yield on a loan. If you talk to any CMBS originator, they cannot sell a mortgage on a regional mall under 10% debt yield. It is probably more like 11%.
If it has got hair on it is 12%-13%. Lifestyle center, show up with the same tenancy, talking 8.5% debt yield. There is a mortgage inflection issue happening right now. I do not think it is going to be forever, and I do think that it does not really make sense. I do also know that we have gone from 1,900 or so enclosed regional malls 15 years ago to about 900. That is a massive destruction of value as we have gone through that unwind. That 900 probably has to go to, in the U.S., in my opinion, it will get to 700 to maybe 600. They are still kind of dead man walking centers that will take a long time to go away, but they are eventually going to go away.
The area that we are focused in is in the 300, which are kind of A, and if you add in some of the B+ s and Bs, you get to around 500, 600, in that kind of range. There is no reason why debt yields on an A++ asset should be like a 10.5%. Makes no sense. A lot of our maturities are coming up are like 8% debt yields. If I try to clear them right now, they are going for a 10%. So lender, you want to extend or you want to take your chances out there? I think this log jam will start to unwind as we get through this kind of red line circle. Right now, a lot of lenders did not want to finance malls. That was a few years ago.
Well, actually now you can finance a mall, but it is going to be at 11% debt yield, maybe 12%. If it is really premium, maybe 10.5%. Equity. I bought a partner out when I first got here. They told me this was the worst investment of all the U.S. investments, the biggest write-down. I said, "I am sorry, but I did not do it and I am going to take you out." We have since then been able to really move those assets forward. I think the pension funds that have invested in this will be very selective on when they come in.
If you look at who we're competing against, mostly private equity funds that are using leverage and trying to figure out how to get high teens levered returns in a business that takes a lot of money, takes a big equity check, and always takes more time and more money. Annapolis is a perfect example. If Sandeep were sitting here, he didn't want to sell it. He's like, "Guys, you're selling too early." But the fund had made enough money, and they looked at it and said, "If I don't refi this thing right now," because the acquisition rate was brutal, "I've got to wait three years because I got to pay for these tenants, I got to reopen them, and then I got to try to get out.
Macerich, they're going to pay me for that income in place even though it's not here yet." And we have a capital structure that can not necessarily have to finance in place. You know what I mean? I think that gives us a little bit of an advantage over other people that are constrained with financing assets that are with in-place trailing NOI at an 11% debt yield. No SNO credit, right. You don't get any credit for that. I think that gives us a little bit of an advantage.
Spot market based on debt yield today.
10.5%- 12%.
For your portfolio?
Yep.
No, with cap rates for your portfolio.
Oh, cap rate for our portfolio. If you look at Green Street, I think they've got.
But you're buying. You're buying a couple assets.
Yeah. We bought everything to date has been stabilized north of a 10%.
Right. Would you think 10% is the right number for the MAC portfolio today? Or you think it's?
I think the value of our portfolio, yeah, not significantly inside of that. Some of our best properties are Tysons Corner would be sub six. Scottsdale Fashion Square is irreplaceable, sub six. If someone-.
That said, there's not much trading, right?
Well, the challenge with that is if we try to go sell one of those centers 10 debt yield. Do the math. If it's a billion and five asset, 10 debt yield, someone's got to stroke a check for $600 million. It's a big number.
Right.
There's not many people that can do that right now. CalPERS's not doing that. That's why you're seeing the trades to date have been big institutions being monetized out by the operating partner. Operating partner has 50% in. If they got to promote, they're ahead, and you've got the ability to move that out. But I think in time, these are really, really fortress in their characteristic types of properties. Very-very ring-fenced in terms of things that could hurt it and just a long list of tenant demand to get into those centers. They're the top centers in the country.
Maybe talk about, again, taking a step back, the opportunity set as we think about acquisitions, right? It feels like you're looking at more stuff here, like Crabtree, Annapolis. What does that set look like? Talk about pricing.
We're targeting for us, I'd say for like A- to B+ , our expectation is stabilized yields with SNOW and all these other parts kind of in the 9%-11% range. If we decide to go look at an A center that can go up to an A+ , I think we're probably looking at stabilized yields in the mid to lower, kind of in that 8% range, and then maybe going in as in the 7%s. We're not going to chase anything in the 6%s. We just don't. The math for us right now doesn't make sense for that. I think the opportunity set is big enough where we have plenty to be selective around at this point. These malls are big, and they're big commitments.
We want to make sure that the two we've done to date, we're extremely grateful to have, and so we want to make sure we can continue that.
Very similar pricing to kind of what you've done in the past, right? Yeah.
Probably similar, yeah. I would say similar, yeah.
Even with rates where they are today, have you seen any shifts? Maybe it is a little bit too early.
I think it is a little early still.
Yeah.
Rates going up are not going to affect debt yield.
Yeah.
Certainly going to affect IRR and going in cash on cash. By definition, these assets, you cannot just buy them and set it and forget it. You really have to get in there and take a tenant out. NOI goes backwards before it goes forwards. If it is vacant anchors, you might have to buy it. Then you got to go cut a deal with DICK's. Ed is not easy. Everybody wants to deal with him. So that deal looks like $15 a sq ft in rent, $150 in TA. So that is another $18 million check you got to write, not including the box. If you want to chop the box up, costs a lot of money. So all these things really cost a lot, but once you get them set, it is an awesome business right now.
In terms of what we see right now, I talked about on the call some of our later stage transformation assets. That would be like Kierland Commons, Broadway Plaza, Tysons Corner, Scottsdale Fashion Square. If you looked at June year-to-date Placer.ai traffic, that is traffic on those properties June 2026 versus year to date June 2025, our go-forward portfolio is flat. The range on those four properties is 10%-20% net increase. If you looked at NOI for our go-forward portfolio during that period, 2.5%. In those four properties, 7%-14% increase. That is how that SNO kind of comes in. Sales. Our go-forward average for this period, June year to date, was about 3.7%. For those four properties, the range was 6%-18%. You know why? Well, put a new Aritzia store in. You put a new DICK'S House of Sport in.
You put these new restaurants in. They can bring a million new customers of traffic incrementally into the center. Give a customer another reason to want to come to the center. More frequency, more dwell time, more variety. I feel like that is our job. Our job is to make sure we get the best retailers, the best merchandising mix, make sure they are doing the best job, make it really easy to get in and out of these centers. If you got problems with parking, that is bad. We are competing against open air centers and other malls, so it has to be very frictionless for people to come in. Gen Z is awesome. They come in all the time. All the time. They are coming into the malls, taking selfies. We open a DICK's store, place blows up.
Trying to get my wife, who is a baby boomer, into the mall is very, very difficult. If she wants to do luxury, she will go, "I will go to Fifth Avenue. They will come to my house. I don't want to go to the malls, all these people walking around. I got to walk out with a Gucci bag." She doesn't want to do that. The retailers have to address that, and baby boomers and millennials are starting to come back to malls. When we open an Eataly, we will bring that in.
If you go to Simon's The Mall at Short Hills, it is an awesome mall. Everybody wants to get bigger. If you look at the profile, it is the moms, it is the Gen Z-ers, it is the boomers that are in there. They spend a lot of money in there. But you have to get the anchors fixed. You got to get the right elevated tenancy. The fact that we went from whatever, 1,900 enclosed malls down to 900, it is going smaller. The retailer demand is equally going the other way, right? Aritzia has got open to buys. Zara wants bigger, better stores in their better markets.
What percent of NOI are those top four assets?
Well, they are JVs, so if you look at them, I would say the range of NOI at share is probably $20 million- $60 million, in terms of NOI. Scottsdale and Tysons are both 50/50 JVs. Broadway and Kierland, the same. Tysons is going to pro forma out at $120 million NOI, just the center. Scottsdale will be about $110 million. If you add the hotel and the resi and the office, Tysons will do $150 million to $160 million. So it is big. They are big assets, big complex assets.
Jack, can I ask you on dispositions, your guidance is, I think your guidance like $300 million or $400 million?
Between now and year-end.
Yeah, now and year-end. You're still under contract and close like $130 million or something, right?
Yeah. We provided an update on there too. Just as a reminder, at the outside of the plan, we outlined $2 billion in terms of dispositions. About 75% of that was our malls, what we classified as Eddy malls in the Path Forward presentation. About 25% of that was outparcels. As you see in our latest report here, the mall side of it has been substantially de-risked. We've got about $1.2 billion of that closed. There's another, about $150 million, that has debt on it that's not part of our go-forward portfolio. The mall's substantially de-risked and almost complete. What the team's focused on now is getting the remaining outparcels done. It's about $500 million in total. To your point, Samir, we've got $130 million closed or under contract, and we expect to get to $300 million to $400 million total this year.
The $130 million plus the, call it $150 million rounded, of not part of the go-forward portfolio. That gets you a lot closer to that $300 million number. In 2027, it's largely the outparcels that will round out the disposition program. We've talked about this in the past. The outparcels require some work on our team to ready for sale. Completing some entitlements to maximize value on some land components, doing some blend and extend on some net lease, doing some reparcelization. Once that prep work is ready, the team will take that out to market. We're progressing towards that $300 million to $400 million sold or under contract by the end of this year, and that'll leave $300 million into 2027.
Yeah.
Progressing towards that $300 million to $400 million sold or under contract by the end of this year, and that'll leave $300 million into 2027.
It looks like you still have activity. I mean, it is already September.
Yeah.
I am just wondering.
Yeah.
Yeah, and just back to school, we have not announced this, but if you look at the back to school traffic, it is the highest percentage traffic we have had the last five years. That is with half the stuff open. I know it is going to get better. We have seen it at Freehold. Center-wide traffic is up 9% since the DICK'S House of Sport opened. DICK'S House of Sport opened in Annapolis. I think the first two weeks, they had 110,000 people go through the door. It has had a massive boost to that center. We had a handshake on a retailer that is going to take the Sears vacant box, so that part of the wing, which is the weakest wing by the food court and the theater, that is going to be the next step of evolution. Uniqlo opened. It was a smashing success.
We still have the other 50-yard line space available that we are trying to figure out the highest and best user for that location. We are in this period where the retailers that are the new ones, so not new ones, but like the big, new, important open-to-buys like Aritzia, you want to get them if you can. Gap, Gap is doing a great job, right? If you listen to Richard's call, the Gap was up 9%, right. Old Navy still got some work. Athleta needs some work. Banana is still great, but they are solid. But the Gap is really, really doing particularly, especially with the GapKids. We just opened a new Gap store. It is 8,750 sq ft at Freehold, and we opened it in the last month. It is a smashing success. He wants to be back in the malls. He left.
Gap left these centers over the last 10 years, right. They are trying to figure out a way to get back in. The challenge for Gap is they need currently about 9,000 sq ft, and they can do about 300 a foot in sales, and that ain't going to get it done in our best centers in center court. Just can't drive the volume. I said to him, "Look, you got to rethink your footprint if you want to be in the best malls right now. Figure out how to do less with more because Uniqlo is going to do better than you. Zara is going to do better than you. Aritzia will blow out. Skims can do more than." They've got to figure out a way to reconstitute because they left a lot of these centers.
They used to have probably some of the best space in these malls and prior to Richard's leadership, they kind of lost their way a little bit, but they're back. Coach is back with Tapestry. American Eagle is doing great with Aerie and their brands. Why are they doing great? The customer. That Gen Z customer that we all talk about. If you listen to any retailer call, listen very carefully, they will talk to you about that Gen Z customer, trying to figure out how to meet them. They're already showing up. They want physical. They don't want to do everything online. But you got to show up the right way. As a landlord, we have to show up the right way. My little Gen Z committee, it's a pretty cool committee. We meet with them like, "What do we need to do in these centers?
What's the long-term prospect list that we need to bring in?" We can't really rely on the boomers or millennials at this point because that's our effective silver tsunami, if you were to compare it to senior housing. It's big. It's only getting more spending power, and every day it gets older and more frequency into the centers.
I know that we're out of time here, but we got a couple rapid-fire questions that I need to ask.
Okay.
So, number one, if long-term rates stay higher for longer, which has the biggest impact on your sectors? Higher refinancing costs, lower transaction activity, or less new supply?
We'll end up buying more centers if rates stay elevated like this.
Yep. Number two.
We're highly confident about that.
Got it. Over the next three years, will third-party capital become a more important source of growth for public REITs than balance sheet capital? Yes or no?
For us, no.
Number three, for your sector, will same store NOI growth next year be higher, the same, or lower than 26%?
It'll be higher.
Great. Thank you.
Thank you all.
Thanks.
Thank you.
Thanks.