Hi there, so thank you for just continuing with the day. It's my pleasure to introduce Ryan Corbett, who's the CFO at MP Materials, and I think the way we'll start off, Ryan, thank you very much for doing the discussion today. Let's just jump right in. This virtual conference has been focused on battery materials, which technically your products are not directly involved in, but so can you just give us your perspective on a brief overview of your mission, and in particular talk about market structure, how the rare earth magnet market differs from the battery market in terms of structural dynamics?
Sure, absolutely. And hey, Laurence, thank you for having me. We appreciate it. Happy to be here. You certainly, you know, while we are not in the battery, we are close by to the battery. And we often get confused as being a battery material. And I think a lot of critical minerals these days sort of just get characterized as such. But rare earth permanent magnets are generally found in the motor. And what we do at MP Materials is own and operate the Mountain Pass Mining and Processing Facility, which is in Mountain Pass, California, which is one of the world's largest rare earth mining and refining facilities. We have, for the past many years, been one of the world's largest producers of rare earth content.
About a year ago, we embarked on ramping up our refining facility to produce the separated rare earth products, namely NdPr, neodymium- praseodymium, that form the fundamental building block of permanent magnets. In addition to that, we have what we call our Stage III at our Independence facility in Fort Worth, Texas, that will take that NdPr oxide and produce finished magnets. And so you know, the thing that's so fascinating about you know where we sit in this supply chain is you know if you think about an electric vehicle, for example, and you know if talking about battery materials, you generally have you know a very big battery you know converting stored energy into motion via a drivetrain via a motor. And rare earth permanent magnet motors are the most efficient form of translating that stored energy into motion.
In terms of, you know, other use cases, of course, it can go the other direction as well. You know, using an example of a wind turbine, taking motion and converting it into energy, you know, oftentimes, you find rare earth permanent magnets as one of the most important pieces of that puzzle as well. In terms of market structure, to your question, you know, this is a part of the supply chain, you know, not unlike many others, but there, there's a pretty acute issue, specifically in the rare earth space with concentration of this industry in China. Today, about 60% of rare earth mining is done in China, about 85% of rare earth refining, and about 90% of magnet manufacturing is done in China. And so the single point of failure risk of this industry is, is extremely pronounced.
I think, fortunately, you know, MP Materials is an alternative to that in a lot of ways. You know, certainly given the fact that we are a scaled producer, we do sell our products into the Chinese market. It's an important market for us given, you know, 90% of magnets are made there, and we're much, much larger on our up-and-midstream business than we are today, at least in our downstream business. But it's an area of focus for, you know, policymakers, for, you know, EV manufacturers, for robotics manufacturers, you know, you name it. We're having that single point of failure, obviously, over the long term is of significant consequence and concern.
And so that is the mission of the business to really solve that issue, to bring the full rare earth supply chain back to the United States of America, back to the Western world, and do that at scale. And so, you know, there's a lot of hopeful projects out there. There are a lot of, you know, potential, you know, projects to address one piece or the other within this supply chain. But we believe that it is critically important that if we're actually going to make a difference here in the relatively near term, we need to be able to address each piece of this value chain at scale and be able to compete in a real way. And so that is, that's the mission of MP, and that's what we've been executing on.
You know, often we hear the discussion framed in terms of people thinking about the volume leverage to EVs, you know, like, you know, 10% of the market moves to EVs, it gives you this much demand. People don't seem to have much of a sense for, like, the sensitivity to the type of EV. So just to be clear, can you give a sense for, like, what the potential impact is and how important could other applications, you know, heavy-duty trucks, aircraft, you know, just, you know, where, where could there be some flex in the models where the kind of headline doesn't capture it?
Sure. Yeah, I think there's a lot of you know discussion on this and frankly confusion and particularly when you look at how our commodity has performed over the last couple of years. I think there's a lot of questions, given the fact that certainly there were some pretty ambitious targets and estimates out there in terms of how quickly the world would move to you know pure BEV. You know, not all of those estimates have been hit, but you look at the world's largest auto market in China and you know now the world's largest exporter of vehicles. You know, I saw a headline today. They're almost at 50% penetration on xEV across you know BEV and PHEV.
You know, I think fundamentally the thing to think about is one of the many reasons that we really like our position in the motor as opposed to in the battery is changing battery chemistries and then certainly changing overall powertrain strategies. Plug-in hybrid as an example is not nearly as impactful for us in terms of the content of magnets, you know, in the motor. There is a pretty significant amount of magnet content in an internal combustion vehicle to begin with. I think the big uplift, though, that you see is in traction motors, and so you know, one of the things that we've seen and we get a lot of questions on is plug-in hybrids have actually taken off not just in the United States, but in China as well.
Actually the total amount of magnet content in the plug-in hybrids in China is higher per vehicle than the magnet content in the pure battery electric vehicles. We get a lot of questions as to why that is. Generally, you know, what you see there is those plug-in hybrids oftentimes are either, you know, EREV form, which, you know, we may start to see a little bit more in the United States here coming up soon, but they tend to be higher-end vehicles with, you know, both a pretty substantial internal combustion powertrain with magnets in it and a pretty substantial battery still and a full traction powertrain, you know, where you kind of get battery or so you get magnet content, you know, even I do it. Okay. So you get magnet content, you know, across both sides.
So it's not always the case, but we don't really lose sleep in terms of if you look at, you know, the various ranges of forecast from an electric vehicle perspective, you know, we look at xEV, plug-in, straight hybrid, you know, full BEV. That's not really driving a massive plus or minus for us, particularly when you look at, you know, how much more room to run there is.
You know, to your point on some of the other use cases, Laurence, you know, I think the thing that we also sort of, you know, think about when we look at just the scale of potential demand over time, you know, thinking about robotics as opposed to just, you know, electric vehicle and broader sort of, you know, clean energy use cases, I think a typical EV may have two kilograms of magnet content with a really big battery. You know, being at a battery materials conference, you know, maybe this moving this direction is less popular, you know, an EV's a big battery, small magnet, a humanoid robot, much smaller battery, but you can have up to double the amount of magnet content in a humanoid robot than you do in an EV. The range is sort of two to four kilos.
And then you think about the fact that, you know, some people are talking about having a billion robots out there in the not too distant future, you know, you know, you think about just the sheer amount of magnet content that would be required there. You know, it's, you look at some of these estimates out in 2040. You'd need 20 times the magnet capacity to meet some of these robotics forecasts that we have installed today, and then you put sort of our initiative into context. You know, we don't need to be the dominant magnet provider. We're a thousand tons of NdFeB magnet capacity in our initial phase of our Fort Worth facility, Independence. You know, the current market is nearly 200,000 tons. So, you know, from that perspective, we're a relatively small player. Certainly our mid and upstream businesses are, are much more scaled.
But that kind of gives you the sense of, frankly, the opportunity set in front of us as and when these different opportunities start to really come to pass.
And so one theme today has been the secular push to just bring down the cost of being an EV. And I think, I guess you have the analogy also to the cheaper robot. And there are multiple paths, you know, cheaper battery materials, packaging solutions, improving the durability, recycling, a lot of discussion on recycling economics. What can MP contribute to this directly or indirectly?
Sure. That's a great question. I think fundamentally the reason that NdFeB permanent magnet powertrains have such a high market share in electric vehicle applications today is because of their inherent efficiency benefits. You know, on an order of magnitude of 10%-15%. And so when you think about the fact that magnets represent several hundreds of dollars of content in an electric vehicle versus the battery maybe being tens of thousands, if you can, you know, shrink that, you know, required size of battery for any given range, you know, that tends to be the direction that, you know, automotive suppliers and OEMs are trying to go. There's always a discussion of different motor technologies, and there will always be a, you know, variety of different motor technologies.
But fundamentally, I think that rare earths are inherently driving efficiencies to allow electric vehicle adoption, and the like. You know, certainly over time, I think, you know, one thing that we focus on quite a bit is not just purely from a dollars and cents perspective, but from a supply chain security perspective. You hear a lot about, oh, you know, okay, you know, assume rare earth motors are gonna be the standard and rare earth magnets are gonna be the standard because the efficiency is so clear. How do we reduce the amount of rare earths within, you know, any given magnet? You know, you hear a lot about that. And generally what that focus is on is reducing the heavy rare earth content within any given magnet.
And that's something that we spend quite a bit of time on, you know, on our own in developing our magnet technology. You know, given, you know, we at Mountain Pass do have both, you know, very significant amount of light rare earths and heavy rare earths, we're, you know, skewed certainly towards the light rare earth side. So, you know, continuing to find efficiencies and bringing down the content on the heavy rare earth side is something that we can contribute. You know, I think that for us, you know, our current business plan, given the scale of our upstream and midstream business, we did not go into the magnet business out of necessity. We went into the magnet business as a logical extension of our midstream business to satisfy a very clear demand and ask from our customers.
We're not going into this business sort of trying to follow the you know the Chinese rule book, if you will, given the scale that they have developed over the last several decades. We're not going into this assuming we're gonna come in with a lower price magnet. It's almost the opposite in the early days, unfortunately. But I think with scale, with efficiency, with technology, with automation, I think we'll very rapidly come down on the cost curve and be able to be competitive you know globally within this business. And I think the you know the amazing head start that we have is being globally competitive on the up and midstream side of things.
But you know, the way I think to continue to enable rapid electrification is to provide security of supply where we can have a diverse and robust supply chain in the Western world and ensure that there are not, you know, a continuation of certain trends where you've got trapped capital and you've got investments that cannot, you know, that can't produce when you've got the geopolitical uncertainties that we have today. And so I think that that is sort of the major contributing factor.
You know, I think the last thing I mentioned, you know, you asked about, and mentioned recycling, again, being sort of a primary product producer, I would not be surprised if over time, as feedstock becomes more readily available, if we become one of the world's largest magnet recyclers.
At the end of the day, you know, and to your point also on efficiency and, you know, bringing costs down, one of the, you know, major uniquenesses of our fully vertically integrated model is a significant portion of material in magnet manufacturing is lost, after the, you know, production of magnetic block in slicing, grinding, you know, cleaning, coating, making the right magnetic shape, you know, all the way from soup to nuts. You can lose 30% of your material as waste or, you know, what we call swarf in magnetics and magnetic manufacturing. Having the capability to turn those products back into their component parts, you know, at Mountain Pass is something that is, you know, very unique to us.
You see a lot of, you know, point solution providers, you know, that are just doing magnets south of flake, for example, needing to try to rapidly build up partnerships, you know, from the ground up to be able to address all of these issues to be competitive, and we have this unique opportunity where we've got the capability to deal with swarf. We've got the capability to deal with finished magnets, and so I think that positions us very, very well and allows us to, you know, address those needs. I think at the end of the day, from a cost perspective, there's a lot left to do in terms of sourcing the right feedstock, from a recycled product perspective.
I think the thing that's also, you know, fascinating and I think a really important point to consider is I think a lot of, you know, product manufacturers will go into this saying, we want recycled only.
And the reality though is, in order to do recycling at scale and to do recycling cost competitively, recycled magnets with magnets being such a custom engineered product have different makeups across every type of magnet, different, you know, percentages of Nd and Pr and heavies and this and that and the other thing to be able to manage the variability in recycled feedstock, but have low costs. Having the huge amount of very consistent primary feed that we do at Mountain Pass, being able to absorb pretty significant variability in recycled feedstock, given the consistency of our existing upstream asset or upstream feedstock is one of the reasons that we will be able to be incredibly competitive on the recycled side.
And so I think that that is sometimes underappreciated in terms of people talking about recycling, you know, having it all under one roof, I think is absolutely critical.
And so on the, you know, you mentioned sort of the custom formulations or custom magnet designs. Can you just dig into that a little bit? How flat or open is the IP in magnet production? And how can MP distinguish itself from Chinese competitors on that front? Or is it simply a matter of being competitive on the vertically integrated cost position?
Sure. Yeah. And look, to put a fine point on that last comment of yours, having vertical integration is important from a capability and scale perspective, but we absolutely are not taking, you know, we say we're not gonna rob Peter to pay Paul, right? We're not sending through NdPr oxide at a discount to our Magnetics facility in order to be able to win business on Magnetics. As you can imagine, you know, we are many, many multiples the size in the midstream business than we are on the downstream. And so, you know, magnet manufacturers are our largest customers. And so we're certainly not trying to compete against them on the price of the upstream feedstock.
And so, to answer the you know the latter part of the question and thinking about IP and the IP landscape, you know, interestingly, a significant amount of intellectual property on the magnetic side was developed in Japan over many, many, many decades. You know, Japan led the world in you know magnetics manufacturing for a very long time until the Chinese you know took their sort of typical industrial playbook and derived very significant scale there. I think the good thing about where we sit today in the magnetics landscape is there's a pretty significant amount of foundational intellectual property that has expired or is rapidly expiring.
If you combine that with the fact that, you know, and this is something that hopefully, you know, folks will start to get a better appreciation of as, as we enter magnetics manufacturing and magnetics production is we've had a very methodical approach over the last several years of surveying the IP landscape and understanding what we consider both white space and green space, which encompasses areas of, of the IP world where, you know, there is no protection and, you know, we have freedom to operate and then areas where there was protection and there no longer is and we have freedom to operate. And we've actually utilized quite a bit of, you know, frankly, before AI was a sexy thing to say, but AI to, to look at the landscape, which is incredibly broad and figure out what types of formulations are open for us to use.
And then, you know, the next step of that where we're at right now is iterating and iterating and iterating on that and then looking at the products that we're able to provide ourselves from our upstream business and finding new and better ways to do this. And so I think the great thing is, you know, we don't have this innovator's dilemma where we've got a bunch of, you know, infrastructure, a bunch of capital that was invested five years ago or 10 years ago or 15 years ago that really operates best with this formulation or operates best if you do it this way. We didn't have to worry about that. We had a clean sheet of paper and we were able to look at both the IP landscape and just general manufacturability and say, what is the most efficient way to bring this capability to bear?
And so, you know, the way that that manifests itself, you know, in customer interactions is oftentimes in the magnetic space, these are custom engineered products, right? And so we'll get, you know, a spec sheet that'll say, you know, this is the remanence we need, this is the coercivity we need, this is the shape we need, this is the size we need, and it looks like this and it's, you know, got this many segments. And we'll say, well, you know, what is really the max operating temperature you're gonna see here? And it's like, oh, well, you know, it's really 130, but we measure it at 150.
It's like, okay, well, if you just measure it at 130, you know, we can do this, we can do that, we can make it this shape, we can do it with this many segments, you know, that sort of thing where we can make a much cheaper magnet that hits all your specifications. And so as opposed to just doing a build to print, really the back and forth with our technical team that's developed a pretty significant amount of knowledge, I think is a real benefit to our customers.
I think the thing also that, you know, we can do a better job really explaining and showing to, you know, the public is within this facility that we've built at Independence, this 250,000 sq ft facility. We have a full new product introduction facility and laboratory that's thousands and thousands of sq ft dedicated to every single piece of the operation that we have, you know, that we will be doing at very significant commercial scale, slightly shrunk down with, you know, complete analytical capability to be able to iterate on these processes, you know, in real time, and do it in a way that's a lot more efficient.
That's what we have been doing to develop our own set of capabilities and our own set of formulations, you know, to meet our current customer needs, but importantly also look at future customer needs, future, improvements in the way that we do our manufacturing to be, you know, cheaper, better, et cetera.
You mentioned economies of scale a couple of times. Can you put that in perspective for the Magnet business in two ways? One is if you were to scale up the Magnet business to match your upstream production, roughly how much would that represent in terms of, you know, sort of percentage of the car fleet or the EV market that you'd be serving?
Sure.
You know, roughly how much would it cost? And you know, what sort of scale do you need to get to, to be competitive with the Chinese producers where economies of scale are no longer the differentiating factor in the relative price?
Sure. I'll take the first part first. You know, the way we sort of roughly, and again, it's hard because it depends on the car, it depends on the Magnet, it depends on the yield loss, depends on a whole host of things. But really simplifying, 1,000 tons of magnets, which is our initial scale, is about 500,000 cars. So if you think about that and what that means in terms of NdPr oxide, the upstream feedstock that we're providing at Mountain Pass to your point on fully vertically integrating, 1,000 tons of magnets roughly just cut it in half to think about the oxide tons required. It's about 500 tons of oxide. So theoretically, 6,000 tons of oxide is about 6+ million vehicles. You know, so that's a third of North American automotive production.
And so again, I think that's super important to think about in terms of our addressable opportunity and how important this is and us being one of the most scaled providers on the up and midstream. Again, you tell us either North America's going to 100% EV and we're fully vertically integrating, we can only address a third of it or, you know, North America's only going to a third EV. We're the only North American producer and probably will be for a very long time, you know, that we could just sell into North America and, you know, be totally fine. And so it's a pretty amazing scale of opportunity ahead of us. And again, this is just talking about EVs, leaving out all the other opportunity that's out there.
and so, you know, that is something that we're tremendously excited about, you know, in terms of thinking about, you know, how you go about and what would make us want to, you know, go to that scale of production. You know, there's a lot of things that need to fall into place to really, you know, continue to expand the downstream footprint. And to your point on economies of scale, like what is that cutoff point? I mean, again, we're a thousand tons. The Chinese market is almost 190,000 tons. Within the four walls of a facility, you start to lose economies of scale at some point, you know, you could easily triple our facility and, you know, still kind of be achieving, you know, great economies of scale within those four walls. But it's not just about that.
You also need to think about every piece of the puzzle, every piece of the supply chain. So again, I think that one thing that's really underappreciated. You hear a lot of folks talking about, oh, we're gonna go do magnet production. Okay, great. They're gonna do magnet production and they talk about, oh, well, you know, we'll get oxide from MP. We'll get oxide from, you know, somewhere outside of China. We're gonna get the metal. You gotta turn the oxide into metal, and there's not a tremendous amount of North American metal production. There's basically none other than what we are building. There is none.
You know, we also have relationships and tolling partners, you know, broadly throughout Southeast Asia where there's much more industrial density in that space, but there are a lot of things to think about that need to be built at scale in order to really drive this business, and so, you know, I hope that, you know, we are identified as really trying to be thoughtful in bringing commercial scale to each of those pieces of the puzzle before trying to go whole hog into one or the other, and so that's really how we think about it is, you know, restoring the full suite of capabilities, and then again, we don't need to own the market. We are totally open-minded to working with customers, suppliers, et cetera, and continuing to build scale in each piece of that supply chain.
But the exciting thing is I feel strongly that we are, you know, leading the way on a lot of these areas. And, you know, it in some ways we solved hopefully, you know, in the relatively near future here, the chicken and egg problem. No one would come and build a magnet plant without security of upstream supply. We've demonstrated our ability to be a scaled producer on the upstream side of things. We were not content to sit around and wait for a downstream industry to develop on its own. And we found a really thoughtful way to enter this business. And so, you know, we will continue to push forward on that. But again, a diverse, you know, set of players in this space is absolutely the key to continuing to drive sort of further supply chain security.
Because again, I think it's about single point of failure risk. Single vendor risk can, you know, be a thing too.
And so let's tackle that, tease out two threads there. First, in terms of what this means for your balance sheet and your CapEx, how you think about the CapEx for the balance of 2024, 2025, how you think about cash inflows versus what you need to spend to scale up, you know, to get to your production targets.
Sure. You know, I won't get ahead of our Q4 call here where we give sort of formal 2025 CapEx guidance, but we tried to give, you know, some pretty clear indicators of, you know, how we're feeling about things, and our last call, you know, importantly, I would flag from a sources and uses perspective, you know, while commodity prices continue to be challenged, and, you know, we are absolutely in a pretty critical phase of ramping our midstream assets, and so we are absolutely not at sort of our, you know, run rate cash generation capability in our core business. We do have the fortunate, you know, ability to bring in a very significant amount of capital to the business, non-dilutive capital to the business, you know, over the next, you know, 12-18 months.
You know, we laid out about a quarter ago $190 million of identified cash inflows that would cover a pretty significant amount of the remaining, you know, capital requirements to sort of finish our main set of projects. Last quarter, we collected on $20 million of that in receiving a tax credit. And so of the $170 million that's left, $100 million of that is in the form of customer prepayments as we continue to progress on our Independence buildout in Fort Worth, and then the remaining $70 million is made up of both 48C and 45X tax credits, either related to the former in the Independence facility and the latter on the Mountain Pass facility as we continue to execute on critical mineral manufacturing where we've got the 45X production tax credit for those. And so, you know, that is nothing to sneeze at.
It's something we're, you know, we're pretty happy about. We think it's an important, you know, thing as part of the IRA that really, you know, again, I think there's a lot of focus on IRA and what does it mean? What is it gonna look like under a Trump administration, Trump 2.0, et cetera? But, you know, these are areas of the IRA that are, you know, absolutely generally bipartisan, supporting domestic manufacturing, supporting critical minerals manufacturing that, you know, with the actions we've seen, you know, even just most recently, you know, as recently as last week in terms of, you know, this geopolitical uncertainty of having access to critical mineral supplies, you know, as bipartisan as it gets. And I think a real focus of the incoming administration in addition to the outgoing administration.
So, you know, we feel quite good about that. You know, in terms of, you know, capital outflows, on the flip side, we had guided initially 2024 to be about $250 million of CapEx. We flagged in our last quarterly call that that will come in closer to $200 million, you know, and that $50 million will roll over, you know, before we had that timing shift. You can imagine we would've gone from $250 million, you know, and had a very significant dropdown in capital spending required in 2025. You know, given the fact that we're just coming to the tail end of that $700 million plan that we had laid out many, many years ago to do completion of Stage II optimization, build out the initial Stage III facility, the Independence facility, you know, heavy rare earth separation and some of our other initiatives.
Frankly, I think, you know, in a world where you're seeing so many projects with cost blowouts, like, you know, I think when this is all said and done, when we are finished, we will look back at the capital spent, versus, you know, what we had laid out from a design perspective back then and we'll be within spitting distance, we'll be within 10% of that number. And so we feel good at, you know, we continue to feel, you know, pretty good about that number. So, you know, that would necessitate that, you know, we'll have a nice reduction in capital intensity. You know, that's not to say that we don't continue to find really exciting opportunities to invest in our business. I think that is a great thing about being a growth company.
But importantly, we are transitioning into a state where, you know, I think about it as the number of in-flight projects, you know, that need to be completed are shrinking. And so from a discretionary cash flow perspective, I expect to see a very significant increase over the next several years. And you know, then we will continue to weigh what is the best use of that capital, you know, with exciting projects that we can continue to do versus, you know, other uses or, you know, areas to deploy that capital.
Then just very quickly, how important is diversifying either your customer base or product mix? Are there key litmus tests customers are telling you they need to see, to validate your Stage II, Stage III production before you can even consider expanding the scope of either?
Sure. No, I think from a Stage II perspective, I mean, to sort of zoom out and again, something that I think is kind of fails to be appreciated is we are currently qualified with our products and selling into three of the top five global automakers, whether that's via other magnet suppliers, our own products directly to them via magnetics agreement, et cetera, and so, you know, I would say our you know, just looking backwards from last quarter's production on oxide, while we continue to talk about how, you know, we need to continue to get better, we need to grow production, we need to get to our target, you know, LTM as of last quarter, we did over 1,000 tons of NdPr production. Like this is no joke. This is real scale.
And so if we're doing that and selling it all, which we are, you know, that would require that we are pretty well qualified into, you know, some of the most scrupulous and demanding customer sets in the world on Stage II. So, you know, customer qualification and diversity on the midstream side is, you know, a non-issue on the Stage III and Independence side of things. What we are looking at is continuing to stay true to our business plan, which is in the early days ensuring we have, you know, great customer alignment, approach this as a partnership, and be able to have a high volume, low mix set of initial customers where we can drive scale rapidly. We don't want a customer that's giving us 50 parts in 50 tons per part.
That doesn't get the job done from an ability to really drive early scale. Eventually, will that be of interest to us? Sure, but right now that's not the right fit for us. You know, I do give, when you look at sort of the landscape of automotive suppliers in terms of, you know, automotive OEMs walking the talk. GM has been at the forefront here and, you know, has put a lot of trust in us as we have in them, you know, to be able to deliver on, you know, our commitments. You know, I think they absolutely deserve a lot of credit there. I think there are others that are gonna be fast approaching.
Frankly, as we get into production, there are certain automakers that just, you know, frankly couldn't get out of their own way in terms of being able to accept the fact that, you know, we don't have a facility to give them samples out of today, but we will. By the time we have samples, we probably won't have any product available to sell them. So, you know, that is kind of the state of affairs for a lot of discussions right now. Of course, you know, there's always a discussion on, you know, how do we expand thoughtfully over time? So, you know, pretty soon we'll be making, you know, real automotive, you know, quality and scale magnets, so that probably will change the cadence and shape of conversations that we have in that space.
Then one last quick one that came in is, in terms of robotics customers, do you have customers who are looking at U.S.-based robotics production looking for U.S. magnets or are they all kind of international customers just looking for diversity of supply?
We see it all over the board, you know, all across the board. You know, robotics, you know, let's say industrial automation and robotics sometimes can get kind of smushed together. And so, you know, we have conversations, you know, if you think about large scale industrial applications that require motion, semi-cap equipment, you know, things like that have real magnetics needs. And so, you know, we talk to those sorts of players all the time that absolutely want a diverse, you know, set of suppliers. But then you've got sort of the newer upstarts on the humanoid side that, you know, haven't driven manufacturing scale yet. They're sort of building their supply chain from scratch, you know, organically now before they're at scaled manufacturing. And so we have those conversations too. I think all of them are a great opportunity.
Again, what it comes down to is exactly what I mentioned before. We are not demand constrained. We're really trying to find the right partners at this point, you know, to continue to kind of grow, thoughtfully, you know, into this opportunity.
Okay, great. So that's the questions that have come in. So thank you very much, everyone, for listening. Thank you, Ryan, for the discussion today.
Thank you.
Let me pass the conference back to JDS.