All right, good morning. If I could ask for people to start finding their seats, we'll begin here shortly. All right, first of all, welcome to Monolithic Power's 2025 Investor Day. For both people in the room and online, it's going to be a great day. For those of you who don't know me, my name is Tony Balow, and I'll be helping emcee the event today. First, I have a few housekeeping things to go through. First, please take note of our Safe Harbor Statement. A full list of risks and uncertainties can be found on our website. Second, if I could ask you all to please silence your cell phones for the event. Maybe most importantly, the bathrooms are through the door, past registration, and down the hallway. All right, finally, let me just cover the agenda for today and what we'll be going through.
First, we'll start with Michael, who will give some words of welcome. What we'll do is move into a series of presentations from our product line managers, who will talk about what they're doing in the world of power and other things in data center, in automotive, robotics, and more. At that point, we'll take a short break, at which point Michael will come back on stage and talk about some of the innovation that MPS is planning for the future. Bernie will come up and update the financial model, and then we'll go through some Q&A. After Q&A, I'd invite everybody to grab some food and join us in our demo area, where we have a number of stations that showcase MPS innovation and technology. With that, we'll start with a short video, and then we'll have Michael.
Who would have thought we'd be scanning all of human knowledge in the blink of an eye, charging our cars like we're charging a phone, communicating in new languages? At MPS, we know that's only the beginning. We are looking to the future, to what's next, to discovering the next medical breakthrough, to transforming how we move through our world and accelerating our ability to protect it. We know that what's next is already in motion. That's why we're here, to reimagine, redefine, and reenergize humanity's efforts towards our greatest achievements. At MPS, we're not just providing power. We are powering possibilities.
On the stage, Michael Hsing, the founder.
First of all, thanks for coming. You will not regret it when you're coming. For those people who didn't come over here, they will be regretting it. It is all about, you know, all those numbers. I still have to remind you, some of the numbers give you a summary. Most importantly, we're going to have a lot of fun. In the last few days, maybe you're sick of artificial intelligence. We're talking about real intelligence here. That is what you're going to see. It is all about what's coming and how we can improve our life and how we can do better a lot of things. What today is intended to be, I want it intended to be short, very short talking. You see the real stuff. Let's go through this quickly.
First, here is, let me, 10, 12 different things go into my mind. I don't know which one will come first. Maybe, okay, instead of I do that, before I forget, this last meeting was in 2018. It's seven years ago. There are a lot of factors causing us to do the seven years later. Pandemic was one of them. Hopefully next time, seven years, we're not going to do seven years. We have more exciting things to show you sooner. Today, we want to, I want to emphasize that what we did in 2018 in the back of the room here. Oh, we are also here. What we said, what we presented, and there's a lot of impressive, I have to say myself, we have a lot of impressive pages.
For probably most of you, you don't have it. Okay. We want to remind you, a couple of pages. Okay. Some of the stuff we didn't really get, really successful. We also talk about the things that are not very accessible. Okay. I had to be fair. This one, you know the number, 25% Kaggle. I didn't hear anything. I guess this is fair. I guess this is fair. The 24% you didn't applaud it. Okay. If you look at the, this is the 21st year. It's the seventh year from 2018. If you look back from IPO days, that number, that's the reason you didn't applaud it, was even higher. Three times seven years, yeah, we slowed down a little bit. Okay. All right. We took a million shares, about roughly about a million shares off the table.
Increase of dividends, we started with like $0.25 or $0.30. I do not remember exactly now. It is over $1.50. In total since 2018, it is $1.5 billion returned to our shareholders. All right. Since then, we growed. This is 2018. Now we have something over 32 or 34 in the offices all over the world. The R&D centers, the purple ones, we grow the R&D center. Last, the manufacturing. Before, we were a lot more concentrated. Look at now, we grew out of one place. MPS keeps evolving. We are a global footprint. We have manufacturing partners outside of China. More importantly, MPS does not make anything. We can portable to wherever we can find a manufacturer. MPS, the keys, all the things we do here is our knowledge.
We do not manufacture anything. We are making, using our knowledge and then making money. We do a lot of product and have a lot of funds and it makes a lot of money. You guys do too. If you own the share for seven years. Next one. Since then, we have 30,000 customers. I will talk about it later. Thirty thousand. It is Kamala's serendipity. I will cover that later. This is geographically very even. What is MPS' growth drivers? You meet a lot of people who want to talk about artificial intelligence powers. This is all the area. It is all our baby. We are equality. We are not biased to anything. Even AI, we talk about it. We did not know it is coming.
As long as we do everything the best, some of the stuff listed here may be the hardest things for next year. We do not know. As long as we do the best, we have a chance. That is the segment where we are involved. Now look at this busy page. We have over 4,000 products. This is not intended for you to remember it. This is the intention. We talk about only 50% today. These are the products. The other products, I said equally important. Now the segue is I let the rest of the people talking about this is 50% of our business, how the sausage is cooked. All right. Okay. Jing Hai. Okay.
Thank you, Michael. Welcome, everyone. It's so great to see you all. My name is Jing Hai. I'm in charge of computing power for Monolithic Power Systems. I might know some of you guys from the past Analyst Day. I still remember in 2013 when I had the first Analyst Day presentation. I think the crowd is maybe 20% of this. Look at this crowd. Welcome. Today, I'm going to take all of you through the journey of computing power evolutions. Computing power has been a challenge for the industry throughout the years. As you guys have seen in the GTC the last couple of days, one is the GPU and the other topic is power. How to solve the power problem. That's who we are.
Let's travel back to 2018 when I presented the story and we predicted what's going to happen in the next several years. Everyone remember this page? This is the slide I presented in 2018 right on this stage. Back then, you know, we are seeing something's changing. There's a transforming of power industry that we kind of feel it. We can feel that the power is eventually going to go to a point that there's no solution actually back then going to solve the issues, the problems that the computing, the GPUs and the CPUs are facing. Michael used to call this the Jing Hai's Law. What is Jing Hai's Law? Let me explain it.
We predicted, we predicted every two to three years, the processor, especially the AI process, GPUs, TPUs, the power level is going to increase by 100%, basically double the power level. Imagine when the GPU has more power, they're going to take more space on the board. When that happens, what left for power? What left for us? We're shrinking, right? The space available for power is shrinking. That follows the same law that every two to three years, the space available for us is half. That is a big problem. To solve that problem, you know, every power supplier, vendors, IC manufacturing like us, we all scratch our head, try to see what is the best solution we can offer to the market. Of course, pushing the frequency to reduce the size of our converters itself.
More importantly, how can we change the architecture of the power delivery? That was the next slide. We actually predicted this before, even before 2018. I remember I presented this in APAC 2016 or 2017. We were proposing, let's do multiple stage to solve this problem. The 12-volt power delivery is not going to support enough juice to the CPU. Let's do 48-volt. The 48-volt opened up a new area for us to invest. This is our DCX converters back then. The structure change really changed the whole power delivery industry. Look at the GPUs in the market right now. It's all this stage, two stage. Another interesting slide we presented in 2018. Back then, a lot of people are focusing on CPUs. Everyone knows Granley, Perley, Whitley.
Actually, in this room, there's this investor friend just asking me, "Hey, MPS, are you familiar with Whitley? What's after Whitley?" It is all about those buzzwords. My take on this is, that's great, but let's look at the different dimension. This is a dimension we were focusing on, not just focusing on CPUs. The data center is going to transform to AI data center. At some point, all the other processes, the GPUs, I always make analogy. CPU is more like managers or directors in the company. GPU is all the workers. We need the workers to do all the heavy lifting job. We focus on GPU. At the GPU, we know there's Ampere, there's Hopper, there's Blackwell. That is the roadmap we're focusing on. We also look at the ARM processors and the Tensors, the TPUs.
Now you imagine back in 2018, there's a huge map in my brain, not just this dimension, but it's two-dimensional. Every category has roadmaps. And MPS is heavily investing on that. That's how we be so successful after five, six years. Another nice picture. Everyone remember this picture? That's the first SXM card NVIDIA announced. And you can see that the power is almost half of the size. And that's a GPU. That's MPS. So we look at this picture and we immediately realized we're going to do something. Because if we continue to follow the same power solution approach, it's not going to fit. Again, back to Jing Hai's Law. You're not going to have enough room once that middle piece grows by double the size. So look what we have. That's the scorecard. And I was surprised. I was surprised. Back then it was like $24 million, $25 million.
We were just touching the surface. All of a sudden, in 2021, it doubled. In 2024, it's a big jump. I look back, try to figure out what did I do right? What did we do right to make this happen? I think there's a, I always use this 3D methodology. 3D means define the ecosystem, design the right part, and deliver the part. Those 3D is so important. Those three pillars are always critical to us. We're not just focusing on designing the part, but we want to focus on define, develop the ecosystem with our customers, try to solve their problems. I think by solving our customer's problem, and then we design, execute, we deliver, that's how we make it successful. We're always ahead, six months to a year ahead of everyone else, try to solve the problem.
Now let's zoom out. Let's zoom out. We did this architecture change, 48-volt solution, and also the monolithic design as always. Right now, at this day, MPS is focusing on further optimize, improve our entire phase design. That's the key to the success. We also introduced our ZPD technology for the next generations of power computing, computing power. What's next? Everyone has the answer because the data center is going to grow. The rack power is going to, I wouldn't even say grow, going to explode, right? From 100 kW to 600 kW. With all those power, imagine how you handle all the power flow into the rack and then how we deliver directly to the processor. That's what we're going to focus. This chart looks like Blue Angels taking off. Everyone look at this chart.
Two years ago, I was still thinking, yeah, with NVIDIA, AMD GPU, beyond the 1,000 W. Is that even possible? How can we handle this and that? All of a sudden, without even noticing, boom, we're at 2,000W . We're even beyond that. It is very hard for us to imagine what's going to happen. The power just keeps growing up. What that means is it will drive this power growth, will drive the fundamental VR solution and the density. Also, we will drive this to a different structure, which I will talk about later. This is what we do now. MPS do all the power solutions to power the core directly. This solution, whether you want to do a discrete design with IntelliFace, with our digital controller, or you want to integrate everything together, make a module.
Furthermore, since you do the module, nobody wants to put capacity, or there's no room for the caps underneath the processor. We integrate all the caps into the module. This is what we do now. This is what we are providing also at this stage to provide the 48 to 12-volt conversion. This is really our focus. Our focus is to take the 800 volt coming to the rack and how we convert it down to the next level. That will solve a big problem, I will tell you in the later slides. Now look at the modules. Back then in 2018, we just announced this beautiful module at the bottom. Back then I was, wow, how can we do that? It was so small, everything integrated. Within a year or two, it follows Jing Hai's Law again.
You know, we doubled the density. So within two years. And we did not stop there because we understand the need for the vertical power delivery. And we know the height of the module needs to shrink. And we also understand the space of the capacitor is gone, occupied by those VRs. So we need to integrate everything in there. So we jumped from 0.75 amps per millimeter square to 1.5 amps per millimeter square in a few years. And then we did not stop there. So I am very excited to see this baby to come to earth. And it is three amps per millimeter square. Very small design. And everything is integrated, everything integrated. So we are going to announce that in a few months. And by the next time you guys come in for next year's Investor Day, and this is going to be right here. So what drives this?
How can we convert that into such a small device? Here's the answer. MPS founding technology is monolithic. By doing monolithic, we integrate all the pieces, all the converting, the power, the control, the brain, the muscles, everything into one die. Look at that. Isn't that beautiful? It's so simple. Simple is the best. When you put everything in one die and you manage to communicate in between those silicons, you minimize so much, so much hassles in the design. You don't have to worry about interconnections. You don't have to worry about the noise coupling. It just seems very elegant. This is a discrete solution going to be look like. Monolithic is the best way to do power integration to improve the density. We didn't stop there.
With all those great modules, what really helped us is now we can move the power stage laterally, resides on the side of the processor with huge PDN losses, 150 microohm. All the current has to go through that to the processor. Boom. We move to the back. It is not a brand new concept, but the way how we implement it is very novel. Because our power stage is so small that we can't even have space for the caps. Also, the PDN can be dramatically reduced by 5x. Again, we didn't stop there. The next move is, can we put more processor, more power stage and a controller all into one block? Very thin, compact, and including all those capacitors. Now it will be very simple. You go there and you take over the whole space at the bottom. There's no caps.
The cap layer is right here. You use the BGA. We call the direct power ball mapping. All the power, the plus minus, goes straight to the GPU, CPU power pins. There is no lateral power flow whatsoever. That has provided us the superior PDN performance. What's next? Let's just pause here. Try to imagine what does it even mean, a 600 kW rack. A typical rack is the size of my height, a little bit fatter than me. It is right there. That rack is going to take in 600 kW and burn it. The only output of that is heat, nothing else. 600 kW, if I do the math correctly, then that means, all right, a typical household oven is about 1,500 W. That means you need over 150 ovens in that rack. It is all burning at the same time. Imagine that.
MPS, we need to provide a solution to take the power in and deliver it to each individual GPUs, 144 of them. With the precision, accuracy, and with speed. That's the mission we're taking. Are we ready? Is the industry ready to do that? All right. This is the similar slides we show. I can tell you today, yes, we are ready to take the challenge. We're set to deliver a product in the next few quarters. That part will convert a plus minus 400 volt to the 48 volt or 50 volt, give or take, with six kW and above power. Imagine that power density. This is what we're doing today. With that, let's recap. It's a $4 billion SAM industry and still growing by this latest power shift from 100 kW per rack to 600 kW, even higher. There's more opportunity there.
Today we're providing all the powers for our CPU or server board, our GPU cards, pretty much everywhere. We didn't stop there. Our next mission is how can we deliver the rack power from the input, high voltage input to this. Beyond that, what else can MPS help for the data center? I don't have a clear picture for the data center, entire data center power right now. Like the short video says earlier, MPS, we are powering possibilities. We don't want this possibility. There's a lot of possibilities here. The data center may not look like this in the next five years. That is why we are here to support them. Again, it's all about power, power and the power. That's my journey of computing power evolution. Hope you guys enjoyed it. Thank you, everyone.
Good morning, everybody. I'm Alan Chen.
I have the good fortune to lead automotive here at MPS. It is fitting, actually, that automotive is going after AI and data center. Because in fact, Jing Hai's Law, the famous law that you guys all now know, actually applies to automotive as well. The thing is, it happens in automotive about three to four years after AI data center. The wonderful thing about MPS is Jing Hai and his team, they develop these incredible technologies, these solutions. They deploy them, they deliver them at scale. He does his 3Ds. Then three years later, we add the 4th D. We divert them to automotive. It is happening right now for the compute power. It is also happening in this transition from 12 volts to 48 volts. We are going to talk about that today. I think we are going to cover three things in the next 15 minutes.
I'm going to go back and reflect back on what I told you was going to happen in our business back in 2018 and how we did. We're going to take a look at how our automotive business looks like today. Finally, we're going to look to the future, some of the major trends shaping the future of mobility and where MPS plays a critical role in this space. Let's start with what I told you was going to happen in 2018. I said three major things. The first thing was that we were going to grow our business beyond the $53 million that we had done that previous year with a nice, beautiful pipeline of design wins. The second thing was that we're going to do that by growing our customer base as well, pushing into the upper echelons of the global tier one community.
The third thing I told you was that we were going to diversify our business across several major application categories. Let's take a look at how we did. On the first one, I'm very, very proud to show this. Over a decade of consistent growth, 44% CAGR since 2013, about 34% since 2018. Compare this to the overall automotive semiconductor market, which was about one fourth of this overall growth rate. This really is actually echoing the overall MPS story. People find out about us for the first time. They learn about a technology, they try it out, they love it, and they come back for more. This is that MPS story in the automotive world. Really, this is still just the beginning.
The second point about growing our customer base, we've tripled our customer base now from just about 50 customers to almost 150 over the last seven years. This is a mix of the major tier one suppliers. It is the automakers directly, and it is even some of the new EV makers. In fact, we have some of our cherished customers here. They're going to be showing you some cars afterwards. Really, really cool technology out there. On the final thing, growing our business across five major applications. You hear Michael, you hear Bernie talking about ADAS wins, digital cockpit wins in our earnings calls. What is this? In ADAS, we power millions upon millions of cameras, now radar as well. Of course, we are the power solution for many of the ADAS SOCs. Today it is domain controllers. Tomorrow it is going to be more integrated.
Digital cockpits, you can think about USB charging. Now it's all Type C, very high power. Most importantly, infotainment systems. About one in three or one in four infotainment systems among some of the top automakers in the world is all powered by MPS. Finally, lighting is anything that is dynamic. It has these cool animations. You're going to see one in the back after this. Motor control is body control. If it has a motor, we can drive it. The final one, electrification. This is actually a new growth category for us. This is not a material portion of our current business, but we have a lot of wonderful future activities happening there. Okay, that's a look back at how we did versus what we told you in 2018. We basically delivered on every single one of our commitments.
Here is where MPS stands today. Annually, we're delivering over 1 billion devices automotive grade into the market. This took us the first 10 years of our history. We did a billion in total. Now we're shipping that on an annual basis. This number is going to continue to grow. We're also now recognized as what they call a preferred supplier amongst many of the top global OEMs. They recognize us for the technology, for our ability to move very fast. In some cases, we saved their butts back in 2022. Recognized as a preferred supplier, that means that when they go to tier ones and they say, "Hey, choose power for your solutions," we're on that list of the top preferred. Finally, we've built out a portfolio. We now have over 1,200 solutions across all of this to offer end-to-end solutions for customers.
If you're doing an infotainment system, if you're doing an ADAS domain controller, it can be all MPS. Built a very, very nice situation for today. Let's take a look at what's coming next. Basically, all the automakers are talking about software-defined vehicles, SDV, right? This really is just the latest kind of way to call what we previously in 2018 were referring to as autonomous connected electrified mobility. Today they call it SDV. I'll give you an example. I actually just bought a car a couple of months ago that is sort of this first generation of SDV. Just last week, I got in my car to come to the office, and I got this message on the center screen. It said, "Hey, congratulations and surprise. Last night we installed an update.
Today your audio system just improved dramatically, and you get level three hands-free driving on the freeway. Think about that. Your car doesn't just get worse as soon as you drive it off the lot. It actually evolves. It gets better. It enables really cool features over time. That's the promise of SDV. We're just now at the beginning stages of this evolution. There are a couple of things that have to happen in order for this to really thrive the way automakers have in their goals. Five major trends. Let's talk about it. On the very first, car compute. Think about the hundred plus ECUs that today exist throughout your vehicle. That's all consolidating into one massive computation box. The ADAS and IVI functionality, that's combining into one system. In some cases, even one chip. We call it the super chip.
At the same time, of course, the power demands, Jing Hai's Law again, is doubling to 10xing in some cases from one generation to the next. The need for power is ever present and even more urgent for this application. At the same time, the landscape is crazy crowded. It is super crowded. You have, of course, Silicon Valley titans. You have regional upstarts. Even some automakers are saying, "Hey, I want to control my Silicon destiny. I am going to do this myself." The common thread across all three is that MPS is engaged with all of them. I will give you an example of why. DRMOS, remember that monolithic image that Jing Hai showed you guys? The same exact thing showed up for automotive a couple of years ago. MPS was the first to release this for automotive and to deploy this at scale.
Today, millions of cars on the road run thanks to MPS DRMOS. With our monolithic technology, we can shrink it, have higher power performance, and so on. Like some of our competition is now finally catching up to our first generation. We're like two to three generations ahead. We're actually moving on to vertical power. Talk about having to cram more stuff into the same size. This is what's going to enable a lot of these guys to achieve those goals. It doesn't just stop there. DRMOS is the gateway. That's the first thing. We've now crafted an entire solution. It's two dozen kind of devices that work in concert. It's DRMOS. It's safety monitoring, supervision kind of functionality into an overall subsystem. This is what folks can use to quickly enable their power strategy for a lot of tomorrow's car compute.
One of our partners actually did an assessment with us once. They said, "You know, what would be the equivalent cost if I tried to do this myself and build this from scratch?" We saved them something north of $200 million when they leveraged this sort of solution that we've carefully crafted over eight years. Okay, the next thing. ADAS sensor, the proliferation of sensors throughout the vehicle, both outside and inside. Level three cars and robo taxis are here. I mean that literally. We've got three of them sitting outside. You're going to see them after this. In order to achieve that level of self-driving capability, hands-free driving, most automakers are saying, "You know what? I need to rely on a multimodal strategy." What does that mean? It means camera, radar, lidar, ultrasonic, maybe thermal imaging in some cases.
Lidar in particular for me is very interesting these days because even just a couple of years ago, you guys probably know this, it was perceived as way too expensive, a ridiculous option, not even remotely considered for cars. The costs for this have dramatically fallen. In fact, some lidar sensors today are on par or even cheaper than airbag sensors. If you have this option, you absolutely can consider adopting this. We've got a great lidar technology demo next door from one of the top makers in the world. What's our proposition for ADAS sensor? It's this. Using our latest generation process technology, we're able to offer solutions that are one fourth the size of the nearest competitor. One of the biggest barriers for software-defined vehicles, ironically, is software. That's actually the hardest piece for a lot of the automakers.
Anything that we can do to help cut down on that development expense, development time is actually a huge benefit for these guys. With these kind of solutions, we can enable something called artifact-free sensing. We have very, very low noise, so they do not have to use software to additionally filter that out. The digital cockpit. Your in-cabin experience. It is very simple. It is about more. More speakers, more motors, more screens, more bespoke of an experience for the passengers as they are on their journey. The car is not actually getting bigger, right? The cabin does not get any bigger. The space that you have to cram all these additional electronics, that does not get any bigger. How do they achieve these kind of goals and enable more technology inside of the vehicle while maintaining the same size? Here is our solution for this.
This actually leverages two things. One is, again, that process technology enabling us to build more with less. The second is our latest generation of power conversion algorithms, which fundamentally enables you to deliver very fast performance but dramatically reduce your external components. This is the way that our automaker customers can dramatically reduce their size, cram more into the same form factor, simply do more with less. Oh, and that's not it. Song, as well after this, is going to be showing you guys a whole new category of products that today we don't participate in, which is audio in the vehicle. We have some really fantastic—you are going to hear it, literally hear it next door afterwards. That is an entire something like $600 million market that MPS does not today participate in. Okay, two more things. First, high voltage.
Contrary to what you're reading in the news, EVs are not dead, okay? They're actually not slowing down. They're still growing. They're just simply growing at different rates in different regions. EVs for sure are still continuing to gain adoption. The trend here is also the move to higher voltages. We're going from 400 volt architectures now pushing into 800 volt architectures. This enables faster charging times. This enables higher performance. What's also happening is that automakers now are actually doing vertical integration. They're actually developing a lot of these subsystems themselves because this is how you differentiate the car. This is how you say, "Hey, what used to be a supercharged V6, now it's my traction inverter. It's even my onboard charger." The name of the game here is system solutions because they're not power experts necessarily. Certainly not power conversion experts.
We come in, we say, "Here's an entire module. Software is pre-programmed in here. Go ahead and use it. They can quickly deploy, get to market faster." Another example of this, we'll be sampling this later this year, is our latest automotive BMS solution. We have embedded algorithms. This works in concert with a series of these devices. It dramatically reduces the software overhead otherwise needed to do your battery management solution. With this kind of solution, you can actually increase the EV range. Oh, and then Chris actually after this is going to be speaking on some more of the battery management technologies. Finally, 48 volts. There's one thing I want you to take away. It's that 48 volts is not a question of if. It is merely now a challenge of when. It is going to happen.
The 12 volt power architecture that exists today, that's a dinosaur, okay? That came out in the 1950s, and it survived through 70-something years of automotive development. Think about what a car in the 1950s had electronics-wise, and think about what a car of today is, right? The physical wire harnessing of vehicles is insufficient. It's actually impossible to power most of the demand that these guys have. They have to go to the higher voltage because by going to higher voltage, you go and shrink your cabling, a dramatic reduction in the weight. When you couple this with zonal, a much smaller, simpler architecture. This absolutely has to happen. Depending on the automaker, you either hear them publicly saying they're going to do this or quietly behind the scenes, I think they're scheming to enable this.
The thing actually also with 48 volts is once people finally realize they're ready to do it and they absolutely must do this, they need to get to market in a very short amount of time. They have to have module system kind of solutions, and that's what we're offering. You'll see this next door. This is a drop-in. It's about the size of this little clicker that is the entire power stage to take you from 48 volts down to a low voltage domain. Three of these guys is sufficient to power the entire automotive electronics demand for the car. It's a very, very nice solution. Quick, quick drop-in, very little software development overhead. What's the through line across all five of these applications? In every single one of these instances, the need for power is increasing significantly, sometimes 2x, sometimes 10x depending on the system.
It is not just power that converts or distributes from point A to point B anymore. This power needs to be safe. It needs to be smart. It needs to be scalable. Most importantly, it needs to be systems-oriented, total systems-oriented. Look, I am really proud and humbled by what our team has accomplished. We have grown eightfold in seven years to over $400 million. We look at the opportunity in front of us. It is from the power content expansion. It is from these additional opportunities, these kinds of products that we never even participated in. We are looking at a SAM that is over $10 billion. Truly, for automotive, this is still just the beginning of our journey. Thank you.
Hello, good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I am Song. I am manager of Thunder Alloy Portaline.
Today, I want to tell you some very amazing MPS products and technology and how they enable the next generation of intelligent robot. Automation is a big market, multi-billion dollar market, and with different segments. By the way, MPS plays in all these segments. We offer microcontroller, power management IC, motor driver, BMS, and sensors. Today, I want to focus on one segment that everyone is talking about, which is robotic. We have a total solution for both motion control and power management for different types of robots. You may notice in the robotic industry, the growth is really driven by the humanoid robots. Today, I want to explain how MPS plays in this fast-growing market segment. MPS AI power solution powers the brain of this robot. The ADAS solution Ellen just mentioned also used here.
The heart of this robot is a battery pack, which is managed and monitored by the BMS IC. The brain and hearts are very important for robots. The robot also needs muscle to move around. That is where you see all these joints: shoulder, elbow, hip, and knees, and also hands. All those are driven by actuators. Each actuator has an MPS microcontroller, motor driver, DCDC, and position sensor. Overall, we have about 45 MPS products worth over $150 inside this humanoid. Unlike the industrial robots or service robots, the humanoid robot presents some interesting and also technical challenges. I want to explain what those challenges are and how MPS can shape the future of robotic motion by solving those challenges. The first major challenge is actually the size.
Humanoid robots resemble human beings, so they need to have the size of a real human being. Today, actually, I want to introduce a friend we invited. I don't know if he's already checked in. Okay, maybe let's see if—okay, he's going to say hello to everyone. Yeah, this is my $150 friend. Hello. All right. You can see this is—I'm talking about a real human being. This is a real kid. Okay. Thank you. Here's the challenge. If you look at his hand, right, there are about 15 actuators inside this hand. Each actuator, there's a coiled motor of this size. We have to feed all the electronics, the microcontroller, the motor driver, DCDC, and sensor into this small motor. How can we do it? Only MPS can do it because we have the highly integrated solution.
We also have the innovative package. By combining this, MPS can make the smallest coiled motor in the world. The next big challenge is really the precision control. For robots, humanoid robots, they're supposed to perform some very delicate, fine tasks. For example, picking up an egg without breaking it. That requires precision control for both the speed and position, right? I want to use this video to demonstrate. You can see here, right, how by combining the MPS best-in-class sensor technology and our control algorithm, you can achieve this kind of accuracy and consistency, which allows the humanoid robots to perform all these fine, delicate movements with high precision, with consistency, right? That's how we did it. Okay, what's in the future? MPS is not just a semiconductor IC company. Our expertise actually goes beyond semiconductor.
We have our own in-house motor design experts and mechanical design experts. We do not make motors or actuators, but those guys, they help us invent and design all these innovative motors and actuators. We even have a physicist conducting all the fundamental research on magnetics. In addition, we partner with all the major global robotic companies, both in the U.S. and in China. We are always at the leading edge of the technology revolution. MPS expertise is not just limited to motion control. I think Alan just mentioned the ADAS solution for physical AI. That can also be applied to robotics for autonomous robots. Also, MPS is a wireless charging expert. Later, you will see in the demo area, we have a three kW wireless charging station that can charge robots wirelessly.
With all this competence and expertise, I'm confident that MPS can really shape the future of intelligent robots. Now I want to switch gears. Robotics is an emerging market. MPS is a major player here. I want to talk about another market, which is different. This is the audio market. The audio is a very mature market. There are many competitors in this market. How does MPS play in this market? About 13 months ago, XINE, a Dutch startup company, they are the leader in digital audio processing. They joined MPS about 13 months ago. After joining MPS, we can really leverage all the MPS power technology and their digital processing capability. This opens up another $1 billion new market for MPS. It is true that there are many players in this market.
Many competitors compete in this mass market consumer segment, which they trade off the audio performance for cost. MPS is different. Our focus is really on the high-end consumer automotive and also professional audio segments. In this market segment, the audio performance is the most important consideration. Let me explain why MPS is better than our competitors. First and foremost, MPS offers the best high-fidelity audio performance. I remember Michael once said about this audio performance from XINE. I remember he used three phases. The first is rich texture. Second is wide, dynamic. Third one, I forgot. I think it is a clear spatial resolution. Michael is a real audiophile. I think he has an expert opinion, right? That is why we say high-fidelity audio performance is very important.
The other thing, if you look at all these amplifiers, the high-power amplifiers, they dissipate a lot of power, generate a lot of heat. When you look at these high-end amplifiers, they always have these huge metal heat sinks attached to them to dissipate the heat. Very few people realize, actually, a large percentage of that heat is due to the idle power loss when the amplifier is not playing music. MPS has a very unique spatial modulation scheme. That reduces the power loss by 90%. This allows us to remove all these heat sinks, make the amplifier much smaller, much lighter. We also have this, what we call intelligent noise cancellation. This is very important when you listen to music while driving.
With MPS, we have a multi-core micro DSP, like a mesh network we use in the audio processor for streaming and for this noise cancellation, right? This technology can selectively cancel the road noise, engine noise, without compromising your driving safety. That is very important, which means you can actually listen to the studio quality music on the road. That is a big deal. Last but not least, MPS, our solution provides a cost saving in the system cost and space saving, and also very easy to use. The end result is this. I brought this up on stage before the presentation. Actually, I do not smoke. This is not my cigarette. This is a highly integrated, high-performance audio amplifier module as well as this size. This is revolutionary because it is replacing the expensive and big amplifiers.
Yesterday, my boss, Maurice, he asked me a question, how big is big, how expensive is expensive? I couldn't answer. I asked Michael for help. Today, he brought his Macintosh amplifier here from home. That amplifier costs $6,000 and weighs 200 lbs. Now I have the answer. How big, 200 lbs, how expensive, $6,000. Today, in the demo area, you're going to see how this small guy is replacing that expensive Macintosh amplifier. You will have the opportunity to enjoy this unmatched sound. You will ask me, what does this unrestricted freedom mean? This morning, Michael has to ask someone to help him lift up that amplifier and put it into a car and drove here. For this guy, you can essentially put it into your pocket. You can go anywhere you want. That's how we define unrestricted freedom.
That's the end of my presentation. Thank you so much.
All right. Hello, everyone. Thanks again for coming. Just a time check. I think we're probably about, what, two-thirds of the way, almost done, right, with the speeches? Anyways, I appreciate you paying attention. I want to give you an update on battery management. Some of you were here in 2018. I had literally just started working here. I put together a plan for what I was going to do with this product line. Now, two things that I talked about. One was that we were going to create a brand new product category called BMS. Ellen talked about this. Others talked about it. This is not a power chip, so totally different than what MPS typically does. I'm going to speak about that in a second, but we did it. We have it.
We're making money from it. We're on generation three now. That was a success. The second thing I told you was on the battery charger side. This is more of a power chip, right? What I said was we were going to go after notebook, smartphone, computing applications with a smaller integrated FET solution. The result of that, there were some good and some mixed results. On the positive side, we've just released our first laptop notebook charger, hitting the market now with first customer designs going to production now. That is doing very well. I'm very proud of that. On the smartphone side, it was a kind of a funny story because I remember going to Michael, presenting this product to upper management, saying, "Okay, this is what we're going to do. Huge market.
Everyone knows that." He said, "Okay, be careful because high risk, high reward, but at the same point in time, we only have a couple of chips in this entire phone, right? We do this. Revenue goes way up." I was thinking, "Okay, this is great. I feel good." It just evaporates. I think the purpose of this meeting is we want to be frank with you, okay? We're a company that likes to take educated guesses and calculated risks. I mean, you saw from the previous presentations, some of these risks pay off massively. If you miss 100% of the shots, you don't take. I want to continue showing what we've done, but that was kind of the history. The message here is the green energy transition.
Why I picked this is because last time we talked, a lot of semiconductor companies focusing on battery management just focused on smartphones, battery chargers, smartphones. That's the biggest market. That's what you have to attack. Now everything has changed. It's not just EVs that are prevalent. Energy storage. I mean, all the way from the point of electricity generation from wind or solar, these massive grid-level energy storage systems are storing that energy. I mean, you can listen to the previous Tesla earnings call where Elon said, "I always told you this is going to grow faster than automotive." It is growing faster. This market is huge, especially since a lot of solar farms are already installed and they do not have storage. That means the electricity is intermittent. This is a huge thing that we're going after.
As Jing Hai mentioned, it goes into the data center as well. Data center has its own battery backup. These huge boxes are going to end up being at the data center on premises. Your home, right? You've got the Powerwall or other type of products, your home battery. All of that trickles down to your portable devices, your vehicle. It's now a complete ecosystem. Batteries are everywhere. That's the message today in terms of what we have products for all of this stuff. Going back through what happened from last time until now, we said we were going to come out with our first BMS product. Again, this goes inside of the battery pack. It monitors, protects temperature, voltage, current. It's a monitoring device, a precision accuracy device. We did that. By the next year, we had shipped over 1 million units.
We also came out with a fuel gauge, which happens to have the best accuracy in the industry. It is a separate chip that calculates how much runtime you have, state of charge. We secured major design wins in this grid storage market, which was huge because, as I've said, that's the fastest growing market. In 2024, last year, we released our second-generation part. We are now on our third-generation part sampling. Basically, you want to have product velocity. You want to constantly show your customers you're innovating, you're incrementing, you're adding new features, this type of stuff. We have several design wins at the largest e-bike manufacturers in the world. Flashing forward today, what are we doing now? Obviously, newer BMS with new features and higher voltage, this type of thing. We are also sampling an active balance solution.
You will see in the demo section about this, but basically, the idea is you have a ton of batteries in series, and they are not all the same capacity. They are not all the same state of charge. Traditionally, you just dissipate that energy and waste it. Active balancer can take the high one, move it to the low one, vice versa, shuttle that energy around, longer runtime, longer battery life. Very important for energy storage and other large battery applications. Finally, the turnkey BMS. One of the common threads of these conversations we have had today is that MPS is not just developing ICs because there are a lot of people developing ICs. We are developing full, complete modules, full boards with software, all of this stuff. Why?
Because that enables our customers to design faster and increases the market we can attack, the tail customers, if you will. Oh, sorry, wrong button. Okay, why are we winning? As I said, more than just one chip, right? This is what goes in the battery pack, whether you're talking about a server backup, energy storage, what have you, similar. We actually produce this ourselves. We did all the design. We did all the software, the whole thing. Instead of just selling one chip, two chip, we offer this complete solution. This, I think, is a great idea because we leveraged this back when my previous job at Qualcomm, we would build the entire phone. What advantage did that give us? We knew all the issues that customers would have before they had them.
We knew what we should do better, like with new products and innovations, because we did the entire system. We were not just selling one part into a system the customer is designing. That is a big advantage, but clearly, other people could do this. They may be behind, whatever, but they could do this. What we have to do and what we are doing is constantly using these platforms to offer something differentiated. That means higher voltage BMS, right? Where the competitor might take two chips, we can do it in one. Better accuracy fuel gauging, active balancing, all of these companion devices that increase the SAM of this type of a system. Okay, where are we going now? As I mentioned, this is where we are currently playing.
These markets are growing, as you know, and we have new products sampling right now and later on this year to expand what we can attack in these markets. There are many other things that are huge that we are also developing stuff for a little bit farther down the road. For example, for notebook, this has BMS and charger sockets. We already have the charger. We're developing on the BMS side. Automotive BMS, Alan mentioned that earlier. Power tools and appliances. The common trend is everything's going higher voltage, higher power. Exactly what Jing Hai said in the server, Alan said in automotive, it's all the same situation. Circling back on the battery charger, all that other stuff was about the BMS. The battery charger, a lot of people think this is a charger, what you plug in. That is an ACDC, different terminology.
The charger goes in the laptop. It's the thing that's charging the battery or in the smartphone, taking the power from that, regulating it to the battery. What we've done here is we've created a solution that is essentially half the size of the existing solutions. All of the existing solutions on the market are discrete FET controllers. You've seen this in the other presentations where everyone's showing, "Yep, here's what the competitor's doing. Here's what we're doing. All the FETs are inside this one thing," right? I don't have to re-explain that. What is the benefit, right? This delivers much faster charging time and half the size because the thermals are better. In addition to that, it's much higher efficiency.
We have customers coming to us saying, "Hey, we actually care about the power consumption from the wall when we're plugged in." This is higher efficiency because it's all integrated. That helps them meet their ESG goals, for example. The other thing is it can enable smaller and thinner designs. Now, I want to touch on the fact that you might say, "Okay, what happened to you guys in the smartphone charger could happen to you in this space too." What is the difference? The difference is in smartphone, we were selling a charger in one system that we do not control. We do not make the PMIC. We do not make the CPU. We do not make any of that stuff. It would be the equivalent of looking at what Qualcomm does. They make the entire thing, right?
It's very easy for them to get other sockets in that market. For the notebook, MPS has everything, right? I mean, Bob over there, he's been growing this market for years. I think we have almost every provider designed in for core power. We have graphics power, point of loads, the USB stuff, the backlighting. For us, it's actually a huge advantage. Go to the customer, say, "You want a complete solution? You want a solution that works really well together? That's sticky." The relationship is good, this type of thing. It's a completely different story for us. Okay, I'm looking at this clock, and yesterday, it took me 20 minutes to do this presentation, and now it's only 10. I'm wondering what I didn't say. Anyway, thank you.
The schedule is that we have a break and then we take a pool.
Do we want a break or want to keep going? Keep going? All right. We keep going then. Great. Okay. We go through some highlight, dim light, and I go through a low light. Okay. There are a lot of good things, okay? Something did not happen, okay? I will show you that. It is not quite in vision, okay? I will show you the low light first. It does not go. Oh, oh, remember this one? I was very, very enthusiastic about it. The reason I talked to, okay, I just reminded everybody. I was impressed myself. I even made an AI algorithm. That is back in 2018. I thought this idea, and we use some kind of intelligence, and we can make a product. This is based on algorithm software. Put on the website, our customer can program the product. We can program it.
They can all do it, program multiple parts. And we can ship it. Oh, there's a programming here. We can ship the product in less than a week time. I checked with our customers. I checked with everybody. It's a great idea. It didn't happen. Okay. My analogy is we know there's a lot of fish in the Pacific Ocean. I've dropped a hook in there. I didn't hook it or anything. It has to be there's a lot of reason why it didn't happen. The serendipity comes out of this is we know how we're going to increase customers. From that time, we have less than probably just a few thousand customers. I don't have exactly numbers. Now we talk about 30,000. I spin the story around. It's dim lights and I turn into a highlight. It is true.
We want to keep diversifying. The more customer, the better it is, more stable the company it is. We're committing in the directions. For e-commerce, we still believe that. From this, we learned it. We created MPS now. That is the reason we increased so many customers. This is since 2018. Okay, that's one low dim light. The other ones was not so dim light. We mentioned about this. We didn't know. We really don't know what is the market segment is all about. I know, in my opinion, when I built a house in 2012 or so, there's a lot of things missing in the market. I can't pinpoint what should be done in there. A lot of software, a lot of building automations, and a lot of big companies want to do a building automation all failed.
Also, this building, we have all the thermal controls and the air conditioning and the air quality. You can't control it. It's so bad. All the other building is facing the same kind of problems. Even go beyond that, I'm looking at how we're going to install these electricities. You have electrician, you have AC wires, and 110 in the U.S., and in Europe, it's 240 or 220. All of these, these are 100 years old technologies. Why do we need that? Finally, I think we can do it. We figured it out. It's ease of use. It's ease of use for many, many different sensors. Temperature sensor, why do you need a thermostat? You don't need it. These are all our customers. Why do you need an access point? Why do you need a motion detector?
All these products, all these sensors are very low cost. It's about one or two dollars. Finish your product. Why are we not adopting these? By the way, these are all our customers. Also the lighting. I talk about AC. These are most of the power in the modern building. It's the AC and also lighting. Why does it have to be run in high voltage, AC to DC, which we provide a product for that? Can we go just there's no reason for it. We can provide DC into lighting, into the entire building. We talk about 48 volts, right? That's going to happen. We can provide MPS now making MCU. We can easily program the MCU, communicate to these sensors. This is what we want. This is what we want to do. We want to control that. Actually, go beyond that. It's life quality.
Your lighting, your air, your sound. Sound does not mean only your music you hear. It is your environment, noise. Why do you have to cancel the noise cancellation only on your ear? How about we cancel it in the air. We can do the same things. We have those technologies. Sound just presented in a cart. How about we present it in the room? We can filter out the noise. We do not want to hear that. Essentially, go beyond the building automation is to improve your life quality. The lighting, why do you have to under this sunlight is changing color from day to dawn or from morning to in the middle of the day? Your circadian rhythm is dependent on the sunlight. You spend 90% of time in the building, and you have one kind of color. Can we change that? We can change that very easily.
Okay, why didn't do it? We start to do this. We start to figure out ideas. The key is cheaply. Sometimes in this room, since we have about an hour or so, you take a guess, what's the CO2 level? It rises 1,000% from before you come in to now, 1,000% and increases a huge amount. What does the CO2 level do to you? You don't think it clear. Next meeting, I want you to think clear. You can ask better questions. This is what we do. We made a box all based on MPS product. You will see it. We're going to demo it today. I can tell you another story. It was Eric Sanders. He joined a company.
The reason he joined a company is I start to do for my home, changing it and do for the company. He does a subcontracting, do all this work. He has a lot of experience for intelligence building. It's a nightmare. It doesn't work. It's never been popular. I told him this concept, I'm going to make this box. He said, can I join the company? You will talk to him today. He knows a lot more than I do. You will see the demo today. What's the advantage? Almost forgot. What's the advantage of it? Every box is scalable, and you can connect multiple boxes. For a medium-sized home, one box, you can cover everything. You just plug in the wire and runs on the default modes. Everything works. You have a control pad on the wall.
Energy saving. This is 10%-25% energy saving because you get rid of all these AC to just AC to DC. We do a high efficiency AC to DC central rather than discrete. And 30%, this is a conservative number. Think about it. All these commercial buildings, especially, they need a metal conduit. All the AC wires have a high in the metal pipe. If you do not know what the conduit is, and these are all DC wires. We do not need that. We converted this area into this and using just DC wires. We talk about confident well-beings. Not only this today, we do not have air. We do not have air controlled. In the next few months, particularly this building, we will convert that. Also, we are MPS. We are building this product. We are building this product for MPS use first.
We're building in China, have multiple offices, two in Netherlands, one in Spain, one in Taiwan, and here also. We're using our product. We eat our own dog food. Do this, make this happen, improve the life quality here within the building. That's what we want to do. At the same time, if you have a million sq ft building, that will enable its own ecosystems. All these are our customers that we're going to work with us to make this thing happen. How do we really monetize this one? I know there's a lot of value. We need a partnership. We don't have those sales channels, but these are the value. Okay. Next things. That's another low light. We can turn into a highlight. Ultrasound. We didn't 2018 didn't talk about it, but 2018, 2017, we talked about ultrasound chips. Guess what?
We generate less than $1 million revenues. The reason is, okay, there's a lot of reasons. Maybe we have a lazy sales force. We're not marketing, address the marketing correctly. Our customers' design times are too long. There's a lot of reasons. Here's we only three guys in the product line. We make the whole chip sets for ultrasound, except GPU and these FPGA product. We have a new architect. Those guys writing, making their own chip, write their own software. Here we go. We made a full system. I tested it myself. I don't have a plug in that. You will see it today. This is the full system. This is about three years ago, two years ago. What's the specification of the system that they asked me? I said to build the best one.
Build the best one and the best. These and the best one is over $200,000, $200,000 system for cardiac. At MPS, we can do a software. Nobody sells everything in one system. We can make a vascular, abdominal, and cardiac. It is all software configurable. As a matter of fact, you see it today. It is all there. Our imaging quality, I cannot say better. Okay, I cannot say definitely it is not worse. Some is better, some is similar, just similar enough to see it. See clear. It is equivalent to these $200,000 systems. There are a lot of them. These kind of low-cost systems enable another market segment. I call it AI enablement because you can do remote diagnostics, remote medicines. These are how we commercialize it. We do not know, but there is a system there.
We can be through a partnership, through a partnership, through we sell ourself. Okay, build the sales force and build, sell it. You go through FDA approval, which is very this type of a product is very easy to, it's not invasive. I keep threatening it. I sell $2,000 on Amazon. It's a consumer device. Just screw everyone. This system, it's all these things. Worst case we sell chips still. It is a system. We can license it. We can do a partnership. We can do all kinds of opportunities. The key is we monetized all these three people's efforts. They spent two years and they spent a little over $1 million. That's my excitement coming to the office to see all of this happened. It's a lot of veterinary opportunity, which doesn't require FDA's approvals.
Okay, and the future telemedicines, remote diagnostics, and I think it's the consumers. I want to want it in my homes. Okay, not this big. We can be even making a smaller. This is everything's inside. I want to make a portable one. Put it inside. I can check myself. It's like a blood pressure meters. That's the next things we're going to do. Okay, for the next analyst meeting, we'll do that. Okay, and today actually you can check yours whether you have a clock or not. All right, next things. We go so quickly. Okay.
Hi everyone. My name is Bernie Blegen. I think by now many of you have been here. I see a lot of familiar faces from seven years ago. And it's just really it means a lot because that means that you stayed with MPS.
For a lot of the newer faces out here, I hope we'll have an investor day before the next seven years. We look forward to seeing you again and that you will stay with MPS and that you heard something interesting today. One thing that you all know very well if you've listened to our calls is we have what I call the Michael and Bernie show. It's sort of point and counterpoint. I just want to not correct, but just add to what Michael just said. We do not have a lazy sales force. Okay. Back in February, we provided guidance and it looked like this. Today we're providing guidance and it looks like this. We've increased the revenue outlook for Q1 and we've narrowed the bandwidth there.
It does not necessarily say that the back half of the year has changed materially. We do not know anything new about that, but at least the momentum going into the year is remaining ahead of schedule. That is a very positive story. When we look at how we compare back to 2018, this has been a very interesting week for me because we have heard so many stories, particularly from the product managers. What has come across is that there are some very consistent themes, and I want to pick on a few of them. One is we heard from Jing Hai that he had a vision seven years ago for what he saw as the opportunity for MPS and for the broader market in the data center. It is interesting because you roll forward seven years later and the vision really has not changed that much.
It's been adapted to the new market conditions, but the vision's the same. There's nothing better than having a good story that ages so well, as he's told. The next is we had Alan who got up here in automotive. Oh, by the way, Alan will sell you a Zeekr out here. Just talk to him. We've got the paperwork all lined up. In any case, he actually gave a very good story saying that a lot of the technology we develop, derivative products come from that. A lot of the same themes that you heard as far as like higher power, 48 volt, on and on, these are derivative technologies. We create a platform technology and then you're able to apply it to all of these other end markets. We had Song who got up here.
One of the things that might have been underappreciated is the fact that on robotics now, AI enablement along with ADAS and actuators is what's really going to make this market explode. Hopefully the product doesn't explode, but the market. It is that level of integration that we do that differentiates ourselves from the competition, these system-level solutions. That is really important. In fact, we even saw Song's new friend who came and joined us for a little bit here. We also proved that Song is indeed very human. What was that third thing again? Finally, we had Chris who came up here and showed us that not only can you try something against Michael's best wishes and fail, but you still have a job seven years later. That also goes to the culture of we're risk takers.
As Michael said on the e-commerce, maybe that did not work out the way we believed. You know what? We learned from it. We course corrected. We are going to improve it. We found new attributes that we can monetize. That is also part of the MPS story. When I look back at our numbers, maybe like yourself or like me, you look at it, we were at $500,000. I could not even, like, that seems so recent. I could not believe we were so small. When you kind of do the report card against the financial model from 2018, we wanted to, we aspired, I used to say aspiration a lot when I first became CFO, to have 20% year-over-year growth rate and it proved out that we are over 25%.
When you look at the gross margin, what we're really trying to solve for here, and I'm going to make this more complex than it really should be, but we want to have a range that we have the freedom in order to experiment with new markets and new products and new technologies that may not be with our corporate average, but over time are going to accelerate our revenue growth. Ultimately, the combination of those two will create and generate the highest free cash flow for our investors. When you look at operating expenses, the percent of revenue, unfortunately, the 50-60% of annual revenue growth, we'll put that in the fiction category. There is a very good story behind that. What that is, is that we continue to invest.
I think you saw Michael's presentation, the number of different locations, the partnerships that we've developed. I'll show you a slide in a second on the headcount and all the partnerships we have. We continue to invest because, as you're going to see in a slide here in a little bit, the products that we have under development today are the future revenue streams that enable that top-line growth. That is all a part of what is the highest level of free cash flow we can generate for the investors. Finally, the operating margin, we show expansion consistent. Capital allocation, particularly over here, augmented by the stock buyback, is an important component because we have not historically done large acquisitions. We do IP or we do talent tuck-ins. Outside of that, this has been a very organic story.
We believe that it's important that we make those returns of capital to you. If I keep hitting this button long enough, it'll flip. This is a chart that you already saw when Michael presented. Again, a point I want to make is that even though we only grew 1.5% there, we outperformed the market by over 10 percentage points. That's what we continue to do. During that period of time when we only grew 1.5%, we still expanded our R&D headcount by 8%. That's how we invest, even if the economic conditions don't favor that level of investment. Obviously, I want to take credit for the 25% or 24.9% and the return of capital to you. I also want to take a few other elements here.
This is important to look at. The employee base that we have has more than doubled in that time. You can see as far as major sites or operations that they have doubled. When you look at foundry partners and capacity, this is incredibly important because what we want to do is be able to provide to meet our customers' requirements. We demonstrated, particularly during the supply-demand imbalance back in 2021 and 2022, that we had capacity and were able to provide parts where our competition could not. That became a huge market opportunity as far as share gains, which is continuing. It is ongoing. It was not one and done.
As far as being able to deliver the highest level of innovation, a reliable product, to be able to exceed customers' expectations and be able to deliver parts so they do not have capacity anxiety, that is a winning formula for our customers. It is a winning formula for our investors. You can see our products have more than doubled. Our patents have nearly doubled. As far as the quarterly dividend, even I cannot do the math, but it looks good to me. The floating bubbles. I love this chart. What we are trying to do here is demonstrate exactly what I was talking about earlier, that MPS over five years has had the highest growth rate. It is one thing to say 24.9% versus a market that grew at X percent. It is another thing to see how much that really looks like and how did the competition do.
It's interesting because I hear a lot of people and they say, well, TI, they've got their own fabs or other companies, they have a lower-cost model than you. We operate within a gross margin for a particular reason. It's to generate to accelerate our rate of revenue growth. I think that that formula, when you look at how we're differentiated from the competition, it proves itself in this one chart. I'm getting better at clicking. The key to it, and we've talked about this in the past, is the diversification by end market. Here you can see that when Jing Hai was presenting back in 2018, enterprise data only represented 7% of our overall portfolio.
I've had people who've come to me and say, you know, Bernie, except for enterprise data or AI, you need to just be middle of the pack like everybody else. We are not. In fact, we were able to grow when all the other companies were not because we had made investments seven, 10 years ago that timed with the market. We did not know exactly that AI was going to, ChatGPT was going to grow the way it did. All we are doing is, it is portfolio management, it is its most base element. If we put enough bets on the table and we make them low cost and we support them and we learn from that experience, we will win. The outcome, it is interesting because we do not actually go in and design what next quarter's numbers are going to look like.
It's a byproduct of everything that you've heard from all of our product managers and Michael. It's great. I have the easiest job in the company. I just report the good news. This to me is a very interesting and telling slide. I hope that after this and you reflect on what you've heard today, that maybe this could be a benchmark to say what differentiates MPS. It goes like this, we develop new technologies, and this is not all inclusive. This is just meant to be a representative list. The technology is what drives our SAM expansion. If you look at all of these, you can go back even to all of the different earnings calls that Michael and I have had. We've told you this was coming down the pike.
The length of these lines show how long we were committed to the development of these different products here along the way. When you come up to here, you go, yeah, I just heard about the silicon inverters for green energy. In fact, I'm looking here, the BMS and the Active Balancer, those are all Chris's business. They're right there. They're really poised just to start to take off and generate revenue. You can go back here. This is Michael, the analog to digital converter. We have the first offering is for security systems, and now we're going into the medical devices, the ultrasound. All of these do. You go down here. We were developing our own Class D Audio, and now we've extended that development with the addition of the XINE R&D engineers. This really drives it.
When you look ahead, again, the representative of everything that you've already heard as far as power isolation, multi-phase architecture, and automotive BMS, it continues to drive. We're not done yet. We're just starting. Here you look at the diversified SAM expansion and growing from $10 million to $16 million and now up to over $27 billion. That's just a reflection of the fact that we are so diversified. As Michael said at the beginning, we've only showcased half of the market opportunities that we're going after right now. If we had more time and maybe next time when we rent SAP, we can have you there. Okay. How does this all land? I'm here for one thing only, really. It's to give you the new model. Oops, the new model looks a lot like the old model.
We're targeting growth of 10%-15% above the market. If the market's growing at 5%, we get to 15%-20%. That's largely unchanged from what we've been talking about. What's interesting about that, and Michael referred to it, is a lot of companies face the law of large numbers. It's hard to grow because you have a bigger base. Because we're so diversified, we're going into so many new markets. Even in the markets that we're in, we occupy such a small percent of market share that it's all just green space that we can grow into. On the gross margin, again, we want to keep the flexibility in order to drive the highest free cash flows and at the same time be able to develop new products, which today may not offer a gross margin at our rate, but that will over time.
It is very important because we have talked about today, what are some of those growth drivers? Integrated solutions. We were talking about everything that has higher power and has to be smaller. For our customers, they are demanding more integration. Alan used the number that we saved one of our customers that wanted to go with their own, $200 million of foregone development costs that they did not have to incur. We are approaching this. We are not a pass-through for these other third-party components. We are selling designs, and our total cost of ownership to our customer is being recognized and valued. The gross margin allows us to have that freedom. I did up the operating expense that we will still have margin expansion, maybe not as aspirational as in the previous model.
It is very important to us that we stay steady in being able to return up to 50% of our excess free cash flow back to our investors. With that, if I have done this correctly and I hit the button properly, we just do the Q&A. Thank you.
All right. For Q&A, we will have Michael join Bernie back on stage. There will be a couple of runners with mics in the audience. Please use the mic so that we can get the question onto the live stream as well. I would ask everybody to just announce their name and their firm. One question only so we can get as many in as we can. We start right over here with Ross.
Hi, Ross.
There we go. Hi guys, Ross Seymore from Deutsche Bank. Just a question on the ED segment and the power management.
On one hand, you had Jing Hai's law and all of that. The complexity goes up, the power goes up, the size goes down, etc. On the other hand, the market's concerned about the fact that more competition's coming in. It seems like a lot of the incremental competitors are happy to operate at significantly lower performance and/or price and margins than you guys. How do we reconcile the fact that the performance needs are going up, but the profitability of going into that market is going down? Is it something that's commoditizing, or are we just waiting for the next phase of growth that will reward your innovation?
Yeah. I don't see it as a commoditizer because this is a very fast-growing market segment. The performance and the customers pay for performance. What does the performance mean?
Not the unit or price is a part of it, of course. It is a total in the end, it is a total ownership, total ownership cost. You may pay us, okay, you may buy a more power-efficient problem. We are not there yet. We are still trying to figure out, increase the efficiency, reduce the heat. We are still at that stage. In the end, really the winner will be the total cost of ownership because you save electricity. That is the market. Okay.
If I can add just one more quick, and I apologize. One of the things that we do is we innovate faster than the competition. Where we bring our technology to intersect with the opportunity is when you have a change in the market. It is not just we are not going for pin-for-pin replacement. We are going for ADAS. We are the first to the market.
We're going with 48 volt. We're first to the market. These are examples. We always get the first-mover advantage. How our customers decide that they want to operate after they're in the market, that's up to them. We don't control that. We always look for being first.
Hi, Josh Buchalter from TD Cowen. Michael, Bernie, Tony, thank you for hosting a very informative day. A lot stayed the same in the story since the 2018 analyst day, but maybe following up on Ross's question, it does feel like the competitive environment has picked up as you've been early into these exciting markets, but now there's a bigger seemingly target on your back. I think you used to say you call yourself like the gorillas and they can't punch down to you or something.
How are you seeing your competitors sort of react as these markets have taken off and you've seemingly captured a lot of value in very important markets, in particular in the AI one? Thank you.
Yeah, those kind of things. I'll let the numbers speak self. Okay. And MPS, okay, if you remember the histories of MPS, we're from a nobody 20 years ago. All our competitors maybe doubled the age, a lot older. Early days, our investors keep asking me, okay, why are all these large companies going to do it? You cannot do it. Oh, they cannot do it. You can do it. I'm tired of answering that question. Okay. Here, all the people here, we have lots of them making products and lots of them making a lot of money. That's all that is. Okay. Okay.
We have a lot of questions. Okay. Yeah.
Yeah, thanks. Rick Schafer, Oppenheimer. Kind of a two-parter, Michael. The first is you guys were really clear how accelerator power is increasing dramatically each generation. And so I'm curious your view, Michael, and what the theoretical limit or is there a theoretical limit to how long we can stay on lateral power versus making the leap to vertical because obviously there's a big holdout there. And then the second part of my question, because it seems like it'd be a huge TAM expander, we're getting pretty close. I mean, some of the new CPUs for server from AMD and Intel are pushing 500W . So how close are we to seeing that 12 volt to 48 volt conversion for x86 CPU and server?
Okay. Let me answer the second part first. The 48 volts is absolutely happening now.
We're shipping those products. From now, I think Jing Hai can answer better. We have a free section so you can talk to all the people here in the demo site. Jing Hai can answer you better. From now on, everything's going to AI, it's all 48 volts. Going the next couple of years is a 400 volts DC, not AC anymore. That Jing Hai has talked about.
The other thing, what was the first one?
First part of my question is okay.
Can you hear me?
Yeah.
Is it working? Oh, sorry. My first part of my question was just, is there a theoretical limit? Like how much longer can you extend the life of lateral power?
I will let Jing Hai answer from the module side. The fundamental is the same as everything else, the transistor level.
How can we improve our transistor? It's like a MOS slot. We call it Jing Hai a lot. It's the module density, power density. It's the transistor. From MPS starting, I can tell you numbers, amazing myself. I started this. I made a first transistor, which is about 20% smaller than or more than 20%, 80% smaller than our competitors on the market. That was late 1990s, okay, and early 2000s. That's how we win the product. Since then, the current product we have it, it reduced another 90%. Just imagine the journey I started. Now MPS, all the IND people doing this, reduced another 90%. Originally we have a 1% of a size. Keep going, MPS keep inventing these new types of transistors. Same as the rest of industries for digital, for digital circuitries, for GPUs, for CPUs, same journey. We're in a different path.
Okay. Yeah, sorry.
Yes, thank you, Torres Farming, for his detail. Michael, maybe I can follow up on that because the way I looked at the slides earlier was that you are going from XPU, GPU power management to rack power. A lot of your competitors are probably still focused on the GPU power, right? Is there anything else that you can share with us without obviously talking about trade secrets and things like that? It does feel like you are now moving to a more total solution for rack power, including power supply, higher voltages, and so on and so forth. What do you need to invest in process technologies in order to deliver a total power solution for rack power? Thank you.
That is a good one. Okay. Yeah. We already said we increased the current density to three amps, okay, a millimeter cube. Okay.
For these GPU powers and memory powers and the CPU power delivery, we already moved that direction. The other direction is Jing Hai said it. We're going to announce a product. We're going to sample a product in the next few months. It's 400 volts DC dropped down to 48 volts. I can tell you this, I'm leading a project going AC to 400 volts DC. What kind of technology? We talked about it in 2017, 2018. We are working on a silicon carbide project. We're shipping those products now. Not for mass market. MPS is never going for a mass market. Okay. Unless we can dominate. We go for the mass market, there's a clear reason. Okay. We can control it. Okay. Otherwise, diversified.
Silicon carbide we produce, it's not in the selling as a dumb power device, a passive power device. We integrate it with our controllers. That is the value. We do it and go even beyond this 400 volts DC. There are a lot of other applications to it, okay, other than data center. Yeah. Okay.
Thanks for right here. Thanks for allowing me to ask a question. Gary Mobley at Loop Capital. Bernie, you are guiding revenue at the midpoint, 2% higher than your prior outlook for the first quarter. I also hear from you, you do not have seemingly as much visibility into the second half of the year. My questions really are, what's driving the upside in the first quarter? Was it broad market strength? Was it better than expected share in the enterprise data market? How does the rest of the year set up?
Is the essence of my question.
Sure. Let me give a backdrop that there's the old Chinese proverb and curse, may you live in interesting times. I would probably offer that we're all getting sort of whiplash. It's not just me, it's everybody in this room with the changes or potential changes or threatened changes in tariffs and trade policies and things like that. Those are all outside of our control. When I look at Q1, I'm actually able to see what's in my backlog. What POs do I have for what products? As I said, initially in the year, we have stronger early momentum than had been anticipated. There are a couple of exceptions. I won't talk about them now. Overall, it's pretty broad strength that we're seeing.
When you look past what I have as far as backlog, it does get a little bit more blurry. I mean, I can point to indicators where we fundamentally believe in our total numbers as far as what we can achieve for the year. But until I can see something that's fundamentally changed and it hasn't, good or bad, I'd rather stay neutral in the second half.
Let me spin it the other way. Let me see here. Wow.
Ten days from earnings call now?
Yeah. Quarterly.
We don't tell you some numbers already, it looks stupid. That's all right. We have to tell you something. Our job is we want to have a very consistent result. Yeah. I don't want to disappoint you. I don't want to look ourselves foolish. Okay. That's what Bernie's thinking. Oh, we should save only ten days. I didn't remember.
I didn't know that. Don't get excited. Everything else stays the same.
We wanted to make it worth your while to come out here. Reduce the numbers.
Hi. Thanks for hosting. Great Analyst Day. It's Will Stein from Truist Securities. Bernie, you mentioned tariffs a moment ago, and I wonder, it's also sort of two parts. Are you seeing any sort of secondary effect that's driving demand volatility among the customers because of that? The primary effect as it relates to your foundry strategy. You talked about, I think, going from five to 13 partners. I assume that's factories, not companies, but maybe it's companies. Maybe you're going to have more factories. You talk about China plus one.
Can you just linger on that topic for a moment and talk about your ability to supply in the light of sort of volatile, unpredictable tariffs? Thank you.
Yeah, these as Bernie said is our controls, but we control our destiny. Do you want to manufacture in one place? The answer is no. It doesn't matter. You have a tariff or you don't have a tariff. It really doesn't matter. We need to diversify our risk. We did it even before this trade war happened. Long, long, long time ago. That was actually, by the way, we ran out of supplies. We ran out of capacity. We diversified. Remember, MPS don't make anything. It doesn't make anything. MPS doesn't make anything. Wherever the capacity is, wherever the manufacturer is, the best manufacturer is, we go for it. We don't make anything.
Our supply, as long as we have availability, we'll go for those just normal business growth, the business expansions, capacity expansions.
If I can add to that real quick, nobody knows what the future really looks like. What I can offer is because we've built up this diversified capacity and diversified R&D capability worldwide, MPS has proven to be able to be nimble. We can move more quickly, either in a defensive move because there's been a change in the market, or as we capitalized in the supply-demand imbalance back in 2021 and 2022 on opportunity. I think that when you look at positioning, while we can't tell you what the future is going to look like, we can tell you that we can be the first company to take advantage of it.
Thank you.
Maybe a little longer term and then a little shorter term. Bernie, I want to go to the slide you said that was important, kind of listed all the different kind of product areas and that. As you look through that slide, are there any particular areas of focus? Meaning in the past, the history of the growth of the company, sometimes there's been big areas of growth. ED, AI, power was one of them. Is the view that it's going to be more diversified as we look over the next kind of two or three years? I do not want to come to a comment, understanding in the shorter term, understanding that there's a lot of uncertainty in there, but you're confident in your own abilities. How confident you are in our abilities, meaning the numbers that we have out there? Because there are numbers, not your numbers.
How does that look for the year?
Again, I keep saying, okay, we cannot, we know some market trend. Of course, we know it. Okay. Early, all the people we said here, that's how we're predicting it. At the same time, a lot of times I put the brake on these. I want to have a very diversified growth and growth customers and also expanding our product portfolios. You remember in 2016 or 2017, we started to do, oh, we're going to do data converters. That is 2018 or 2019. We're going to do MCU. All these products are very fundamental for our future growth. We're not picking on one area. That will defeat our purpose. We will be very, very, okay, you will not like us. Our stock is going up and down.
We did not go up and down anyways. Oh, that is right. Other people said, well, the victim of our own success. Okay. So be it. Okay. Earlier I said it, I am presenting all these products. Okay. We talk about 50% of these. Okay. Other ones, it may come in the next couple of years. Some things became very hot. As long as we enjoy doing the we provide the best things, best performance, cost performance. One day these things are going to happen. We will be there. That is our strategy. It is our culture on there. The next one is okay. Quinn? Okay. Oh.
Quinn? Joe, what do you assist?
Quinn Bolton with NATO. I guess a two-parter. First, on the data center, the high-voltage data center opportunities, you are looking at AC to 400 volt and then 400 volt to 48 volt.
Can you just give us a sense how much of the TAM would be AC to 48 volt? You've been in 48 volt to 1 volt for a while. You've been very successful. It seems this higher voltage opportunity could be significant. Maybe I missed it, but I don't see sort of a relative sizing of the market you're moving into for data center versus where you've been. I've got a follow-up question.
Yeah. Frankly, I don't know. All the data centers will move into that type of architecture. Jen probably can tell you more. I know it's big. This is at the very beginning. All right. It's the second question.
Second question too.
Do a quick one on that though.
I mean, going back to building out your toolset and the technologies that we showed, we've been doing, we talked about power isolation. I think about 2018, 2019. That is fundamental to being able to do the high power that's required in the rack and in the data center. Again, it's building out the portfolios and it's understanding our customers' most difficult challenges. That's where we succeed.
Yeah. Also, to do this type of development work, it's not contracted to what we do somewhere else.
Yeah.
The building itself is going to be DC power. We were pushing that in the directions because there's a building automations, the box that we made it. It's all going to be changing the way we look at supplying powers.
The second question, I'm kind of as you move into the higher power, higher voltage markets, I want to come back to this idea of discrete solutions versus integrated. I think discrete, you've proven at lower voltage, lower power is more efficient. As we move to higher power, Infineon and some of the discrete FET guys will say, hey, we'll put multiple die in a package, but each die is process optimizing so we can have the best FETs in that package. As things are typically on running at high power, they'll say that that gives them advantage. I was hoping you could sort of respond to those kinds of questions.
Yeah. Quinn, you always raise the good technical questions. Okay. It is. Okay. Once you have the feel the power, have the need for power density, the integrations, the better power device, it all counts.
Also efficiency. Efficiency, you can trade off with size. Okay. Some of the ones like the energy storage for power grid, there's less care about size. Okay. They do care accuracy. Other ones is like in the data center. Absolutely, they care about size. They care about the heat generations. Again, MPS is getting to a silicon carbide business. We are not, this is 20 years ago, we did an integrated silicon power device on silicon. Now it's okay. Our power device is a lot better than the discrete one. In the high power in the silicon carbide, so far, I see all the numbers were a lot better. It's the same journey to me.
Okay.
Hi. Adam Rich from Vaughan Nelson. Obviously, you're an innovation company.
You look back the past seven years, you exceeded your revenue. Either your pace of innovation was faster or your return on your R&D was higher. Any insight into what that was? Looking out over the next three to five years, do you see anything that can accelerate pace or increase your return on R&D?
Maybe Bernie can answer better. I don't know. We don't do return on investment. We know all the projects. I don't believe big R&D dollar creates the better result. Most of the time, I feel it's inversely proportional. I'm not joking. In our business, I'm not talking about every other company. For MPS, three people developed this ultrasound. I was told to have a real ultrasound company take 50 people in five years to do it. Of course, they're not stupid people. The system screwed up.
That's efficiency we're talking about. For the last seven years, especially the last couple of years, we didn't know AI was going to take off. When the ChatGPT took off, we're going to grow 24% or 25%. Okay. I think we're lucky. If you're looking back 21 years ago when the first time IPOs, we actually followed the same trend. Those are probably higher. I didn't calculate it. Early days. We keep doing the best. We keep embedding on the right area. Those things will happen. May not be Jen said it was 2019, we're going to intercept. Our customer must use us. Actually, a couple of years later. It didn't happen. It didn't happen more than we expected.
If I can add a couple of comments here. Earlier, I made the observation that I have the easiest job in the company.
It is true. The reason for that is everything that we did seven years ago is what is coming to market today. We have been able to,
including e-commerce.
It is on the horizon.
Okay.
When you look at how we are different from a lot of our competitors, particularly in analog, people come here and they want to pitch an idea. Guess what? We do not have an ROI model in the company. It is true. When we have a go- no-go decision, it is based on two criteria. One is, is it fun? Two, is it engineering differentiated? Is it solving a problem in a different way than our competition? It is not like, does it hit the ROI? Another aspect is we are fabless. We do not make anything. We are getting compensated for our ideas, for our innovation and our execution.
As a result, we do not have a high capital investment. It is really human capital investment. Then making sure we do not put up some cumbersome administrative process that slows people down from having fun. Maybe one follow-up. How about from your customers? Are you seeing their pace accelerate? Obviously, you have had auto market, a huge change in how fast new products are introduced. Are you seeing that in other markets? And maybe could that accelerate y'all's?
I wish they can go even faster. Yeah. I wish, yeah, they go for, they are not fast. They do not move very fast. Okay. They are moving, but not moving. Better than not moving. Okay. If it is a not moving market, okay, MPS will have more trouble. Because we advance product, they are adapting to those products.
If it's a market fast-growing company, you look at it, all these fast-growing companies, we're with them. For those that are more stagnant, okay, and more supply chains emphasized, okay, we made a pretty good inroad, okay, and a growth in there, but it's much smaller.
By the way, I understand the tempo of the room. It's because the carbon dioxide has gone up another 100 % points.
Yeah. Not next time. Okay. I think we have a lot more time to answer questions. I'm not going to finish. Okay. We have some food and more importantly, the demos. The demos. Some of them, it will blow you out of your mind. Okay. This one. You will see those products. You will see those products. A couple more questions? Okay. Yeah. Okay.
Yeah. Thanks for taking the question.
Joe Petrarca from Wells Fargo. Right. You talked about, I think on a slide I saw, you've got foundry capacity for $4 billion. And if you think about just modest growth for the industry between now and 2027 and your outperformance, can you talk about the comfortability of just increasing that capacity and the planning that goes into that, thinking about just the revenue growth opportunity?
Oh, I'll take it. There are a lot of things that I'd probably say that I'd rather be lucky than good. We came up with an idea years ago that we wanted, we were at the time probably at that $500 million or $500 million level. We said, we want to have capacity of $2 billion. I said something like Q3 of 2021 or something like that. Everybody made their models that go exactly to that.
What we do is we pick large targets. Then we get everybody aligned around delivering that because it has to be a company-wide organization effort. We pick the target. It's big. It's audacious. We have a track record of executing against it. That's all that went into picking that particular number.
Two more questions.
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Go ahead.
Hi. Thank you. This is Neo Liu from E20 Capital. Because there's too many business-related questions, I'd like to ask two technical-related questions. Firstly, for the BCD technologies, it seems like the break departure of MPS. In our slides of a couple of years ago, you will keep showing it. You have progress to shrinking the nod or BCD ports. But since like two years ago, this slide's gone. I'm wondering, is the process progress has hit a wall?
You cannot shrink the node size anymore. Especially considering you have a competitor, Infineon, just announced a BCD technology improvement last year. That means does MPS still leading this technology or you're just on par with others?
We're far ahead. I can tell you we're far ahead. We didn't deliberately remove it because we have so many things to show. I thought you guys are getting sick and tired of seeing the same things. That's the reason. We will show you something new. I said earlier, the competitors and how we shrinked, and what is there a wall for improving the power density, it's fundamentally it goes to a transistor level. We keep improving that one.
Let me take one more add there.
I had a funny conversation with one of the engineers who's responsible for continuous improvement. Back then, we had a chart and it said BCD2, BCD3, BCD4. Then we had all these things of what the new attributes were and what it gave us. They're better, faster, smaller, higher integration with software, things like that. I went to him and I said, "When's BCD7 coming out?" He goes, "seven? I want BCD64." It's like,
you know. Let me answer the other way. You can't think of what's the room. Okay. We're using 16 nanometers, maybe 45 equipments. Okay. There's a lot more room we can improve on. We're always using the trading edge product, a trading edge equipment. That's our models. Our competitors have all these captive fabs. They're over the 90 nanometers for powers. Well over 90 meters. Okay. 90 nanometers.
We will keep using the smaller node. That is to take advantage of it.
Last comment for me is that 10 years ago, BCD was a primary differentiator for a number of reasons. Just like it was the BCD technology 10 years ago, modules and system-level integrated solutions is what differentiates us today.
I'll go for last questions.
I have one follow-up. Also technical. Because Wen Jinghai mentioned about the ED solutions, I keep thinking about improving the power densities. To me, it's like you will make a die smaller because you have the monolithic solution. There is a market or a customer saying when you keep shrinking the die size, when you put the driver and the DRMOS very close, then you test it and the thermal will impact each other.
That means for the future ED solutions, actually the improvement to get a higher power density actually can only go for a packaging side. For the silicon side, you just have minor improvement. Thanks.
What is our power densities? It is still lower than what the GPU does consume. That is total consumption. Would you say we generate on each phase, entire phase, or those H modules? We are far less than the GPU consumption is. Very, very little. Crosstalk on the thermals is not a factor at all. We do not have that problem. One last question. All right. Do not have it. Good. All right.
Thanks so much. Yeah. Thank you.