Great. Thanks everyone. I'm Joe Moore from the Morgan Stanley Semiconductor team. Happy to have the management team of Marvell here with us, Matt Murphy, and Willem Meintjes, and Ashish Saran, CEO, CFO, and IR, respectively. Just quickly, you've heard me say this 75x , but for important disclosures, please see the Morgan Stanley Research Disclosure website at morganstanley.com/researchdisclosures. If you have any questions, please reach out to your Morgan Stanley sales representative. Thank you guys for being here. I really appreciate it. I know you're hot on the back of OFC, so we can talk about some of that later.
Sure.
Maybe we could just start off generally, big picture. You know, we sort of went from this environment where you were supply-constrained pretty severely so. Within a couple of quarters that turned into some inventory access that you're burning off, you know, which tends to happen sometimes in these types of environments. Can you just kind of talk through what you're seeing now and some of the bigger picture trends that you talked about in your earnings call last week?
Sure, Joe. I think, having been through these cycles over the last 30 years, I would say this is not unexpected. In fact, our head of operations, who took a new role a couple of years ago in the middle of the supply crisis, Chris Koopmans, some of you have met him. I said look, [audio distortion] blazing hot, and it's gonna turn so fast, you're not even gonna know what happened to you. Like, we got to be ready." I think from our standpoint, you know, we had a very, very strong period of growth, really starting in 2020 through the end of last year. Outsized revenue performance, you know, the Inphi asset performed really well.
Yeah.
I think the biggest thing that surprised us and certainly has led to the downward revision and kind of the adjustments is really how fast the data center unwound. If you actually look at the rest of the business, you know, and you go back to last year, you know, Enterprise was a really solid performer. You know, actually, even in this year, you know, carrier 5G is gonna grow again. You know, automotive is gonna grow. A lot of stuff in the portfolio is working. Clearly, the shift fairly quickly from the enterprise on-prem and cloud hyperscale data center, that shift, and the, that deceleration of growth was a lot faster than I think we or a lot of people had anticipated.
Yeah, that's certainly something we've heard a lot of. Can you talk about where you are in the bigger kind of journey here that, you know, you started with the storage enterprise networking portfolio. You've obviously acquired a lot of capability that takes you into cloud and common infrastructure in a much bigger way. You have building blocks now that you can go to customers and say, "Hey, we can do a lot of different things for you." You know, where are you with that? Do you have the IP that you need to achieve your bigger objectives? Do you see further M&A in your future? Just maybe talk to the bigger picture strategy.
Yeah. No, I think, I'd go back to, you know, kind of the refrain we had back in October of 2021 at our Analyst Day, which is, look, we did what we needed to do to get the portfolio that we wanted, and we've got that in place, and we feel very good about that. You know, in terms of all the key pieces you pointed out, the end market representation is much broader now. Also just the technology set, right from storage to high-performance, processing, which really came from Cavium. You know, the custom ASIC capability that kind of goes across all the businesses now from Avera. You know, bolstering the mixed signal type of stuff with Aquantia and Inphi, and then having the lever on the optics transition.
I mean, I think it really is a complete technology platform built on, and that's the way we think about it as a company, right? Whether it's the 5nm process or whether it's our packaging strategy, it's really to leverage this breadth of IP to those end markets, which really require high-performance data infrastructure silicon.
I mean, it seems like it's been very, you know, for a company that's done that much inorganic activity, it's been done very thoughtfully. It's been done with a view of what that portfolio looks like. I guess one of the things that I've always been impressed with is the execution around those deals in that, you know, I think at your last Analyst Day, you had the founder of Cavium on stage, you had the founder of Inphi on stage. You know, we don't always see that with these. I don't take that for granted that you sort of keep a lot of the key people. You know, what's been the secret to kind of unlocking value from these acquisitions?
I think it's two aspects. I think you touched on one very important one, which was our approach to people. I think that some of these companies were very, very unique assets, kind of crown jewels for what they did. Our view was, you know, you can't keep everybody, but certainly there's very special people that were involved in creating these companies. To your point, you know, Raghib Hussain is still a invaluable, you know, asset for us. He was a co-founder of Cavium. You know, Loi Nguyen, who runs all of our optical business, you know, he was founder of Inphi. Actually, Puneet Agarwal, who was the co-founder of Innovium, is on the team. He's running all of our data center architecture. I mean, you can...
We kept one of the technical co-founders for many years of Aquantia, and he went off to go do his own startup, which we sort of helped him with. We tend to have that type of approach. At the same time, I would say, we were able to execute all of these deals with, I'd say, pretty meaningful, cost and revenue synergies to make it work.
Yeah.
We weren't afraid to go kind of take out where we needed to, where it made sense to do that aggressively. I think we overachieved on every deal we did in terms of the cost synergies we communicated. Integrated ERPs really fast. Also, I think the revenue synergies is actually really what's given the boost. I think having all these pieces together has really unlocked, I think the potential value of the whole portfolio. I would just finally say, we really saw that accelerate, I'd say, even in the pendency of the Inphi deal closing.
That whole customer set, especially in the cloud, really opened up. I think designs we were sort of crossing our fingers we might get basically just started falling our way. I think our plan, our thoughtful plan about how to integrate that asset and combine forces, it really resonated. Also the scale, right? At some point, customers are saying, "Okay, you guys are $30 billion market cap or $40 billion market cap, or whatever it is.
That's solid, right?
Yeah.
You're big enough and you're strong enough, and their view is you're we don't have a scale problem per se, so we can trust you with our most critical stuff.
Yeah. All right. That's great. Just from my perspective, it seems like the financial execution around those deals has been really good as well. It's the synergies that you talked about, but also just taking businesses that were sort of incented by revenue and moving the incentive structure a little bit more to design wins and things like that.
Yeah, that was part of the pivot. I would say, you know, really on one of them, we leaned a lot harder relative to growth versus sort of, you know, how do you split the baby on the cost synergies, and that was Inphi.
At the same time, that was done in a period of, you know, very high growth, paid on multiple low interest rates, and the strategic aspect of it was so compelling. You know, even though that was a bigger risk and a little bit of a departure relative to the high multiple paid, I think it was appropriate for the time, and it just absolutely delivered, right?
The thing outperformed year one. It's outperforming since we've owned it, and, couldn't be happier. You know, look, it was accretive the first quarter.
Right.
At one point, we sort of stared at it and said, "When is this gonna be?" you know. I think all that's worked, pretty well. As you think about the environment we're in now, and again, we've got the portfolio we want, but to the extent we ever started looking at other things, it would really be the traditional way we look at it. You know, really, what's the where can you drive meaningful cost synergies? Where can you really take, an asset and plug it into our platform and repeat that playbook and then drive value both on the revenue and the cost synergy side? not, t he era of stretching on multiple is sort of over, I think, in a large way for tech M&A.
All right. That's great. Thank you. Maybe if we talk a little bit about some of the businesses now, starting with data center and maybe starting with optical, because you do have OFC this week. Can you sort of talk about some of the new areas where you've seen product introductions and maybe just give us a competitive outlook on optical?
Sure. Yeah. I, you know, I kind of reflect on this. I was at OFC yesterday. I don't know if some of you guys were down there or not, but spent a whole day there, kinda from Sunday night with a customer. I'm sorry, Monday night and then all day yesterday. Give you some reflections. I've been attending that show for probably over 10 years. Not every year, but I've gone. First of all, I'd say that there's always fireworks. There's always a rattlesnake lurking, and there's always some press release and a lot of noise, and you have to sort of sift through it and figure out what's happening. I would say my reflections are, you know, we are just incredibly well-positioned in the optical area.
I think the first sort of big breakthrough was, you know, we were the only company to be able to show working silicon demo and a broad module ecosystem built on the next generation optics platform, which is the 1.6T generation, which also, by the way, has native 200G SerDes IO. That's sort of an episodic leap, right? I mean, you went from sort of 25G NRZ when PAM hit and you went to 50G per lane. You had to sort of implement these more complex DSPs. That's really where Inphi just sort of shot into prominence. Then it went to 100G and now 200G , which gets just vastly more complicated with respect to the DSP and the signal integrity issues and so forth.
It's really what's needed to enable next-generation AI, the next wave of high-performance switches. By the way, you know, since it's native 200G per lane, we are also demoing an 800G solution that's like, you know, half the power or 30% less power than what's already out there, just because now you can go 4 by 200 versus 8 by 100. I'd say from a product standpoint. And that was all very well validated. The theme of all the meetings I had, and it was with a range of people from directly with hyperscale folks to module partners, ecosystem, and at varying levels of management, the big ask was, "Go faster." You know, get your 51.2T platform out faster.
You know, our AEC demos as an example, I mean, that's a real trend that's happening. Again, we're intercepting that trend, that market with our PAM technology from 200G to 800G. You know, demoing all of those solutions with us and our partners. We've got every, basically, cable manufacturer partnered with us. So real strong demand. I think the idea that, you know, pluggables are here for the, for a, the foreseeable future is definitely the refrain. Certainly, we're aware that there's always different architectural solutions that get proposed, whether it's co-packaged optics or linear drive. Some of these have been around since I started to go to OFC in 2012. You know, it was sort of like, "It's, it's coming. It's coming." I think we feel really good about where we sit competitively.
Strong customer feedback on the total solution and discussions, to your point, Joe, about more broadly, especially with the cloud type of companies, how can we do more together relative to that whole portfolio?
Yeah.
With physical layer leadership, ASIC capability, switching, and thinking about, you know, next generation AI applications and things like that. A lot of real positive, real positive show.
Yeah. I mean, it seems really strong. I know at one point, Ford Tamer had talked about, you know, we're gonna maintain 50% share over time, it seems like that was pretty significantly conservative based on what we're seeing today.
It was, yeah.
Can you talk about that in the context of hyperscale budgets coming down? It seems like this is gonna be an area that's somewhat protected. Even NVIDIA had issues last quarter, which is obviously in a protected area as well. How do you see that tug-of-war between, the budgets are coming down…? This is an area that's key to these new workloads that we see coming?
Yeah. I think budget's coming down for sure. I mean, I think some of our customers are here right? They're probably talking about OpEx and CapEx and how they're gonna go extend the life of platforms longer and get more efficiency. I think that started kind of at the end of last year, and that's continuing. It's definitely not a, not an if they're going to upgrade, it's just the timing of which I think this, you know, if you think about even, like, one example, right?
The upgrade, the networking upgrade to 51.2T, I mean, that's gonna drive a 4x increase in network capacity, right? By the way, they're not gonna do this asynchronously. They're gonna wanna make sure everything's ready from the AECs to the NICs, to the switch, to the optics, so that's coming. I think, you know, then I'd also say that there's other things that are happening independent of budget, and AI would be one of those. I mean, there's a lot of talk about 800G, and it's coming in the future. I mean, we went to massive high-volume production last year on 800G.
That was for AI. That wasn't for switches, right? I mean, this was for AI cluster applications. That obviously has had no budget constraint 'cause that's actually where everybody's putting their energy. The final thing I would just say is that even some of the upgrade from NRZ to PAM still isn't done. I mean, we had one of our customers talking to us about, "Look, we were a little bit slow, and there's been some delay to go from sort of 100G to 400G," but that's actually happening next year, you know? While there's been some delays, and certainly there's inventory adjustment that we're going through right now, our module partners were bemoaning their inventory issues as well.
Everyone sort of sees the path out of it. The higher level, you know, where the puck is headed, especially into 2024, is just very, very strong from an optics standpoint, and the whole ecosystem around it.
Yeah. You know, the other growth driver, big growth driver that you have in data center will be cloud custom silicon. I know you've pushed the timeframe out a little bit on the financial targets there, but can you kind of talk to those opportunities? I think, you know, with as much specificity as you can give us, kind of what types of programs are those, you know? I know there's custom activity in every part of your business. In, you know, optical there is, in DPU there is, in storage there is. You know, it feels like you're talking about here more compute offload stuff that's incremental to those opportunities. Can you talk to that?
Yeah. Maybe on the on that part. I think as we get closer, I'm hoping, you know, we can talk in a little more specificity. As you can understand, Joe, given the confidential nature of these and the fact that these products are basically even if we're building the whole chip, it's their product. You know, it's gonna have their logo, you know?
I think there's a lot of sensitivity. I would say generally, it's a diverse set of applications, many of them and most of them are compute intensive, that really plays to our strengths from our Arm CPU capability, you know, which we got from Cavium, it sort of advanced along the way. Relative to the timing, yeah, it's pushed out by a few quarters.
You know, I think the one thing I regret is we've done a pretty good job and have a good track record, I think, of, you know, being able to size new growthy opportunities for investors, and then kind of bringing them along.
Yeah.
You know, we started talking about automotive a few years ago. There's no revenue. It was organic, ground up. We said, "Hey, we think this is a $100 million business." This is back when we were, like, $2 billion and change in revenue. That's a pretty big deal. Then we got there, right? Then we kinda moved the goalpost to $200 million, and we hit that last year, and now we're saying it can go to $500 million. I think 5G we did something similar.
The difference on the cloud one, which in retrospect I would not have done, is we for the first time put a time bound on it, which was, "Hey, in this four quarters, this is what's gonna happen this four quarters." Looking back, obviously, we had not anticipated exactly when that was gonna happen correctly. It's, it's moved out. That's more of a function of what you said earlier, which is really just trying to sweat it out with the existing platforms longer that they have, and that's sort of their corporate decision. We still view these as very compelling, part of their next architecture and mission critical to what they do. Probably not gonna happen all this year. We said just take about half of it and move it out.
Even then we've gotta really see how the year unfolds, Joe.
Yeah.
It's been pretty dynamic, so.
I mean, in your defense, every next generation server platform has sort of seen the same thing.
Correct. Yeah. The server platforms-
It's not been the-.
... themselves have moved out. Some of those were attached to that cycle in the context of, "Hey, we want everything synchronized." You know, if there's a whole thing, like a server platform just moves out six months or nine months, you're probably gonna get drug with it.
As we segue to enterprise networking, I mean, just more generally as I think about these inventory corrections in data center networking, how much of the weakness you're seeing is you kind of proactively cleaning it up, you know, and trying to get ahead of it and reduce inventory so that you can have a better backdrop in the back section?
Yeah. You're talking about enterprise?
Yeah.
Primarily data center too, but, like, to the extent that...
I feel like some of this is the market being weak and some of this is Marvell kind of actively making sure that that inventory gets cleared out.
Yeah. That's, you know, generally, to your point, it's a broader business, geographically it's dispersed. You know, last year, we saw China really start to inflect negatively, right?
That's sort of their own, their own issues in that country. You know, again, we kinda let that inventory float down. A lot of that goes through the channel, right? That's an opportunity to work with the customer, with the channel partner, versus some high volume mega socket that's one customer, one deal, and then it's a little bit harder to manage. Yeah, very much so at the end of... In fact, I think in our December call, right, Ashish?
I mean, we talked about the fact that, hey, look, for the China enterprise, you know, look, enterprise for us was growing, like, 50% a year.
Like, every quarter annually for a long time.
Mm-hmm.
Okay. I think we were pretty transparent that, look, we think probably this calendar year, there's going to have to be some level of reset inventory correction
To your point, yeah, we're actually trying to do that more, I think, prudently and aggressively now and get the channel in the right place, the customers in the right place. Let them schedule around what they need so that we have a much better picture of supply and demand, and quite frankly, have a better setup for the second half. This is in the context too of, look, supplies opened up, lead times are coming down. We also wanna get those over time back into a more normal place. When you go through that, my experience is it's a little bit better to just get it flushed and get it clean so you have a better baseline that you can grow off of.
Yeah.
That's how we've thought about it. At the same time, we're very mindful of people placed orders that were not cancelable, you know, so okay, we gotta take it, but let's figure out a way to try to get that to match your demand a little bit better. We think that that's a better... My experience, that's a... Rather do that for the long term-
Yeah
Make that decision now.
I mean, that 50% growth profile that you've talked about that you've maintained, you know, That's actually been going on for quite some time. You go back to the Cavium days and their business in enterprise networking would significantly outpace their customers' growth, but it's also coincided with, you know, large inventory build, large, customer prepayments and things like that that happened in that space. Can you kinda give us a sense for what that growth trajectory looks like over the longer haul and, you know, how long it takes that inventory to clear out and what the growth looks like thereafter?
Yeah. I think, That to me , looks like a more normal traditional supply-demand, inventory kinda rebalancing. You know, commentary, quite frankly, out of the North American companies has been actually surprisingly generally positive, if you look at their view of the market. They're not saying it's growing gangbusters, but they're also not signaling, you know, a major, you know, impact. I think on the China side, by the way, it was so low. My opinion is it's gonna come back for sure, especially after this party congress is over. I think there's gonna be tenders and bids. I think they're gonna resuscitate their economy a little bit. You know, we're certainly hopeful by the back half that that comes back. Over the longer term, you know, we've always...
We look like we just totally undercalled it, which we did, but we've always said, "Look, we think enterprise is kind of a GDP as a market grower.
Yeah.
Then we can outgrow that.
Look, I think when we said it was 4% or 5%, you know, we thought we could do a little better. Of course we did 40% or 50%. Got it. Missed. You know, things went better. Shoot us for that. I do think it probably goes back to.
We're okay with that.
It's okay, we'll take it because actually we stepped up to basically a new base, you know, in terms of where... We'll take it. It's, it's merchant products for the most part that got leveraged across a whole bunch of companies, and we gained share, right? That's, you know, obviously the leverage you get because you're not... The R&D leverage is quite high. I think over the long term, it'll be a grower for us but it's not gonna be at that rate. Certainly can we outgrow the market? I think that's... Once things are normalized, I think that that's a reasonable assumption for people's models, you know? I mean.
Right
I wouldn't say anything's changed there. We just kinda keep chunking away at it.
Yeah. All right. Well, you have a couple of growth stories that are working really well this year in carrier infrastructure and automotive. Maybe starting on the carrier side. You know, you talked about 25% sequential growth in 5G infrastructure this quarter. You know, that surprised me a little. It's not, you know, I think that reflects maybe the strength of some of your 5G programs, but can you talk to the drivers of that growth?
Yeah. I think a couple things are going on. The first is, I would just say, and every seasoned investor knows this, which is the famous quote, you know, "Carrier is lumpy.
Okay? It's just a. Normally people say carrier is lumpy when it's down, and they say, "Well, you know, carrier is lumpy." Sorry. You know, actually we're saying, look, carrier is lumpy. It's got a head of steam on it, which is great. Part of it too, why it looks a little different maybe, I think, than kind of some broader industry commentary is you gotta remember, we didn't have a whole lot of 4G content at Marvell, right?
We really hit that, the 5G inflection. When people talk about comms, there's kind of that offsetting issue, you know, legacy equipment going down. You know, 5G is where all the CapEx is going. That may be a little bit of it. You've got India, which is very aggressively finally, you know, rolling out 5G networks in a very big way this year, so that's part of it. Then I think some of our content gain we've gotten over the years where our customers are introducing the new, you know, older platforms are rolling off, new ones are kicking in with our solution versus what the incumbent was.
That's probably some of it, Joe, and I think it probably has a very strong, obviously for Q1 and probably continues again in Q2, and then we gotta kinda see where it goes.
Overall net for the year, we do see 5G up again. We're very pleased with, you know, the trajectory of that business. It exceeded our original $600 million target. Kind of got there last year. It's going to grow again this year. Over time it'll moderate, you know, but there's still some content gains that are in front of us, and it's been a very good business for us.
Joe, I mean, one thing to add also to your 25% is our customer base is a lot more diverse today.
Those customers are doing well, quite frankly, right? If you look at the share gains we're executing on, we're seeing those benefits, right? As we kind of ramp. What we still see in front of us is another very important socket we've talked about, right? Which is completely in front of us, right? I think we can continue this growth for a while.
Yeah. I do think the impact I think there's even an accurate acronym for this now that some of the base station companies called NRVs, you know, Non-Reliable Vendor.
I think there's a NRV kind of rip-and-replace going on in Europe, certainly in other parts of the world. That basically, that share is actually starting to move and ascribe to some of our reliable vendors, I guess as the operators would say. That's probably a little bit of it too. Look, we'll take it in a choppy world and, you know, we'll take some growth right now.
I'm discouraged that that vendor is still not reliable, anyway. Another conversation. You know, I do wanna leave some time for the finance questions. Automotive, can you just talk to the growth drivers there, automotive Ethernet, and what are the prospects for expanding the scope of your automotive business over time?
Sure. I mean, I think this is a great story for us, right? As much as much as, you know, sometimes we can get easily characterized as, "Well, Marvell is just a roll-up. You just bought these companies. You didn't put in..." I mean, our, the success of our organic investments, you know, really where we thought the portfolio had some potential, which was pretty thin, slim pickings, quite frankly, the original Marvell, if you just sort of unpacked it. Where we, where we put energy, it's done well and automotive was a great example. That business is, you know, gonna grow again this year for us. It was about $200 million last year.
The exciting part about that, Joe, is the design win activity is been through the roof the last two years and to a level where the lifetime revenue we're winning is so far in excess of the revenue we've got that it gives us a lot of encouragement for where this is going. One of the reasons is the initial deployments of this were either in the case of traditional kind of combustion engine vehicles, it was more of a one-off link here or there. That's the last few years. Then the EV guys just went all in on it.
That was sort of if you could go ground up, why would you not actually pick a, you know, highly reliable Ethernet backbone to connect everything in the car, right? Content was very different on those. EVs are doing really well. I mean, that's just been a share gainer, so that's helped us. The game changer has been that all of the major traditional automotive companies with big combustion engine and engine platforms are also moving aggressively to the concept of smart vehicle, connected vehicle, et cetera. Those new platforms that we see coming, and you see it More of the hype comes from some of the ADAS companies, right? Where they're winning here and there, but we partner with everybody, Joe. We're like, we're Switzerland on this one, right?
Yeah.
We basically, we're in all the platforms. When the traditional gas-powered vehicles start rolling this in, it's just a huge content gain for us.
it just opens up a larger number of vehicles. We invested to win. We, this was a negative P&L for a while. We put a lot of energy into it, we believed, and now it's a profitable business where we can actually kind of. It's in a great place because it's growing every year, so we can add R&D and keep funding it and meet the. it's, we've turned it from a, from a start-up to a, to a real business. I think over the next 10 years, networking and automotive will be just a very, very important trend, I think that Marvell will be a leader in.
All right. That's good to hear. Maybe touching on financials, I mean, one of the surprises out of the quarter was the gross margin hiccup in the April quarter. Can you talk to, you know, the drivers of that and then, you know, how you talked about that getting back to model over the next few quarters. Can you talk about what it takes to kinda get back there?
Yeah. Maybe I'll let, since we gave Willem an amazing gift, as his first quarter as CFO. It i s a wonderful, gross margin, guide. Willem, why don't you give some of your thoughts on that.
You know, clearly the primary driver there was the mix, right? You know, specifically if we start in data center, you know, clearly saw another step down, leg down in storage. Then, you know, that was a bigger step down than the general, data center product. We saw a decrease in that as well, as the inventory correction sort of broadened and it was certainly deeper than we had expected in Q4. Then in addition to that, we saw, on the carrier side, weakness in the wired business and that's typically a higher margin business. Then, you know, that was offset by this 25% growth that we were talking about in 5G.
When we look at the merchant networking silicon, and that was down as well, and it was really offset by ASIC businesses that were starting to do well. When we look at the sum of that and the lower revenue, certainly we had some lower absorption as well. As we look at the rest of the year, you know, at some point we do get through this inventory correction, our mix will start normalizing. We're fairly confident that exiting the year we'll be close to sort of bottom end of our long-term range of 46, 64-66, Joe.
There's no areas where there's like-for-like pricing differences or?
Yeah, really not, right? You know, our business is really long-term in nature. We have long-term contracts and certainly nothing like that where we just, you know, change pricing, have some volume discounts or anything like that.
Maybe just to wrap up, because we only have 1 minute left.
So much to talk about with you guys. Can you talk to your financial objectives, you know, going through a macro rough patch?
Yes, sure.
You know, how do you protect the investments that wanna have versus optimizing earnings in a-
Yeah, maybe two aspects to that, just quickly. You know, when we look back at last year, you know, one of the things that's gonna be my primary focus is free cash flow, Joe. You know, when we look at last year, we were really investing in working capital on some of these supply chain agreements, right? That, that piece is largely behind us. There's an opportunity for us to really focus on getting inventory lower, improving our DSO, really improving free cash flow. You know, we're in the near term focused on repaying this June $500 million bond. Once we get through that, clearly there's an opportunity to, for us, and we're excited about, you know, starting buybacks again.
Our capital return policy is actually to do a minimum of 50% through dividends and buybacks. You know, in the second half of the year, I think, you know, if we're able to do more, we're happy to be flexible around that. You know, I think the second part of that question was around capital allocation. You know, we're clearly, we have all these design wins that our customers are relying on us on, and we're really focused on executing on those first and foremost. Clearly near term it's pretty choppy and so we're hyper-focused on controlling OpEx.
Also going through our capital allocation, process and, you know, and as far as there's opportunities and projects that are maybe slightly delayed, to just tweak those investments and optimizing. So that's sort of that, that OpEx guide that we gave, towards the end of the year.
Great. Well, thank you very much. We'll wrap it up there. Thank you guys.
Thank you, Joe.
Thanks, Joe.
Thanks, Willem.