Reminder, today's conference call is being recorded. I'd now like to turn the conference over to your host, Mr. James Jaye, Director of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.
Thank you, Allie, and good morning. This is Jim Jaye, Nordson's Director of Investor Relations. I'm here with Mike Hilton, our President and Chief Executive Officer, and Greg Thaxton, our Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. We'd like to welcome you to our conference call today, Friday, May 24th, 2013, on Nordson's second quarter results. Our conference call is being broadcast live on our webpage at www.nordson.com/investors, and will be available there for 14 days. There will be a telephone replay of our conference call available until May 31st, 2013 by calling 855-859-2056. You will need to reference ID number 64354851. During this conference call, forward-looking statements may be made regarding our future performance based on Nordson's current expectations.
These statements may involve a number of risks, uncertainties, and other factors, as discussed in the company's filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission that could cause actual results to differ. After our remarks, we will have a question-and-answer session. I'd now like to turn the call over to Mike Hilton for an overview of our 2013 second quarter results and a bit about our outlook. Please go ahead, Mike.
Thank you, Jim, and good morning, everyone. Thank you for attending Nordson's second quarter 2013 conference call. I'm pleased to report that we delivered an excellent second quarter. These results reflect the efforts of our global team, which continues to execute at a very high level. Our customers continue to respond to the value we provide, and we remain focused on meeting their needs better than our competitors. In a continuation of the trend we saw in our first quarter, our second quarter was highlighted by strong top-line organic growth. Once again, this growth was broad-based in terms of product lines, applications, and geographies. The 7% organic sales growth we delivered outpaced the levels recently reported by many industrial companies and is reflective of the diversity of our end markets and our value proposition.
The first year effect of acquisitions added to the top line to bring total sales volume growth in the quarter to 23% compared to the same period a year ago. We also delivered on the bottom line with GAAP diluted earnings per share increasing over the prior year's second quarter to $0.84. Looking forward to our third quarter, we see a moderation in growth from some of our end markets related to the low growth macroeconomic environment. That said, at the midpoint of our guidance, we are still expecting year-over-year organic sales growth against the prior year that, for Nordson, was very strong. With this outlook, we should see improving operating margins as compared to the second quarter. In a few moments, I'll share additional comments about the current business trends and our outlook.
I first turn the call over to Greg Thaxton, our Chief Financial Officer, who will provide more detailed commentary on our second quarter financial results, as well as some comments on our guidance for the third quarter of 2013. Greg?
Thank you, and good morning to everyone. As Mike described, we delivered very positive second quarter results, with sales in the quarter of $382 million, an increase of 21% over the prior year's second quarter. This growth included a 7% increase in organic volume, a 16% increase related to the first year effect of acquisitions, and a -2% impact related to unfavorable effects of currency translation compared to the same period a year ago. On a sequential basis, performance in the quarter represents a 10% increase over first quarter sales. Looking at performance within the segments, Adhesive Dispensing sales volume increased 30% as compared to the prior year's second quarter.
The first year effect of acquisitions drove most of this growth, where organic volume improved by 1%, driven primarily by systems serving polymer processing and nonwovens end markets, offset by some softness in our packaging product line during the quarter. Sales volume growth in the Advanced Technology segment, which is all organic growth, was 14% over the prior year's second quarter. Organic volume expanded in every geography as demand for our precision dispensing and fluid management solutions serving mobile electronic device, medical, and other niche markets remained strong. Within the Industrial Coatings segment, sales volume increased 24% compared to the prior year's second quarter, inclusive of a 13% increase in organic volume and 11% growth from the first year effect of acquisitions.
The organic growth included most product lines and geographies, with the exception of Europe, and this growth continued to be driven by the investments of durable goods manufacturers. Moving down the income statement, gross margin in the quarter was 57%. This performance is equal to our first quarter performance, even with a larger mix of systems revenue in our second quarter. Operating profit increased 7% compared to the prior year's second quarter, and operating margin for the quarter was 22%.
This year's second quarter operating margin is an improvement of 4 percentage points over what we delivered in the first quarter this year, with 59% incremental operating margin on the increased sales volume, reflecting our ability to leverage increased top-line growth. Looking at operating performance on a segment basis, Adhesive Dispensing delivered operating margin of 26%, up 2 percentage points from the first quarter, as operating margin for legacy product lines and recent acquisitions improved sequentially. Within the Advanced Technology segment, operating margin for the quarter was 25%, equal to the prior year's second quarter, and up 6 percentage points from the first quarter of fiscal 2013, where strong sequential sales volume growth generated incremental margin of 58% in the quarter. Excluding the incremental spend associated with the two initiatives we called out in previous quarters, operating margin in the quarter was 27%.
Overall, performance in the second quarter for this segment was very strong. The Industrial Coatings segment generated operating margin of 15% in the quarter, where increased sales volume and operational efficiencies drove an improvement in operating margin of 3 percentage points over the same period a year ago, and a sequential operating margin improvement of 2 percentage points. We are very pleased with this high level of performance given this segment's high mix of engineered system sales. Continuing down the income statement, reported net income for the quarter was $55 million, and GAAP diluted earnings per share were $0.84. Negative currency effects reduced earnings per share by $0.03 as compared to the same period a year ago.
The current quarter's EBITDA was $95 million, a 12% increase over the prior year's second quarter, and second quarter free cash flow before dividends was $47 million. During the second quarter, we executed on our strategy of returning value to shareholders through share repurchases and dividends, where we invested approximately $22 million under our share repurchase authorization, and we paid dividends in the quarter of approximately $10 million. We have approximately $62 million available under the $100 million share repurchase authorization approved by our board during fiscal 2012. To date, against this authorization, we have invested approximately $38 million at a 15% discount to the closing share price on April 30th, the end of our second fiscal quarter.
From a balance sheet perspective, we remain very liquid with net debt to trailing 12month EBITDA of approximately 1.4 x at the end of the second quarter, and $214 million available under our revolving credit facility. Before moving on to the outlook for the third quarter of fiscal 2013, I'll provide comments on recent order trends. As we typically do, we provided our most recent order data both on a segment and geographic basis with our press release. These orders are for the latest 12 weeks as compared to the same 12 weeks of the prior year on a currency-neutral basis and with all fiscal year 2012 acquisitions included in both years.
Looking at orders for the 12 weeks ending May 19th, 2013, they're down 2% as compared to the same 12 weeks in the prior year. As the second half of fiscal 2012 was particularly strong for Nordson, most notably in the Advanced Technology and Industrial Coatings segments, we're up against very challenging comparisons. Within the Adhesive Dispensing segment, orders over the last 12 weeks decreased 1% compared to the same period in the prior year. Strength in our legacy packaging product line was offset by softness in other product lines. Orders were strongest in the U.S. and Japan. Advanced Technology is the segment with the most challenging comparison to the prior year, and here, orders over the latest 12 weeks are flat compared to the same period in the prior year.
Positive order growth in several product lines, notably medical components, was offset by modest softness in dispensing and test product lines. Segment order rates were positive in all geographies with the exception of Asia Pacific. Within the Industrial Coatings segment, the latest 12-week orders are down 11% as compared to the prior year period. Solid order growth over the prior year for powder coating systems was offset by softness in other product lines, most notably larger dollar systems for automotive OEMs. Order growth was positive in Japan, Europe, and the Americas. Let me now turn to the outlook for the third quarter of fiscal 2013. We're forecasting sales to be in the range of $404 million-$419 million, an increase of 6%-10% as compared to the third quarter a year ago.
This range is inclusive of organic volume growth of 0%-4%, with the first year effect of acquisitions adding growth of 7%. Based on current exchange rates, we expect currency translation effects to reduce sales by 1% as compared to the prior year. At the midpoint of our revenue forecast, we expect gross margin of approximately 58% in the quarter and operating margin of approximately 24%. We're estimating third quarter interest expense of about $3.4 million and an effective tax rate of approximately 30%, resulting in third quarter forecasted diluted earnings per share in the range of $1-$1.09 per share, inclusive of a $0.01 gain related to the sale of an asset.
The midpoint of our sales forecast represents sequential growth of about 8%, and we're forecasting sequential incremental operating margin of approximately 56%. In addition, as we described a quarter ago, our selling and administrative expenses in the third quarter, as well as the fourth quarter, will include planned incremental investments of about $2 million within the Advanced Technology segment . These investments are expected to generate organic revenue growth in fiscal 2014 and beyond. This level of investment is consistent with the amount of spend incurred in the second quarter for these initiatives. With regards to capital spending, we're still estimating about $45 million-$50 million for the full year, which is higher than normal due to specific investment programs in the year. I expect future years' capital spending to moderate back to around 2.5% of revenue.
In summary, we delivered strong second quarter performance, where our global team continued to deliver at a very high level, and we anticipate continued solid performance in the third quarter when considering the weak macroeconomic environment.
Thank you, Greg. Before taking your questions, I'd like to provide some additional comments on our year-to-date performance and third quarter outlook. With regard to the first half of our fiscal year, we delivered excellent performance in sales, operating profit, net income, and diluted earnings per share. Given the difficult macroeconomic backdrop during our first fiscal half of the year, the recent performance is very good relative to many other industrial companies, and I'm especially pleased with 8% organic sales growth over this period of time. As we begin our third quarter, our current order rates reflect the moderation we are seeing in some end markets, as well as more difficult comparisons against a period of very strong growth a year ago.
Against this backdrop, the midpoint of our guidance represents 2% organic sales growth on a year-over-year basis and 8% sales growth on a sequential basis. These are solid levels in the current environment and reflect the value we continue to provide to our customers. As Greg said, we would expect to leverage the sequential volume growth to generate higher operating margin in the third quarter. Let me make a few comments regarding our fiscal 2012 acquisitions. We are on track with overall integration efforts and encouraged with the synergy opportunities we have identified, allowing Nordson to bring value to these acquisitions. Regarding performance, sales and operating margin improved on a sequential basis, helping Nordson drive overall second quarter operating margins over the first quarter.
We remain excited about the longer term prospects of these properties, given emerging market opportunities, our development of new applications, and overall market and economic recovery. For Nordson overall, the short cycle nature of our business limits our visibility, making it difficult to forecast beyond the third quarter. Nordson has proven its ability to perform in a variety of economic scenarios, though we are not immune from the overall macroeconomic trends. Shifting to a more long-term view, Nordson is well positioned to continue delivering strong financial results, where we are able to leverage our diverse end market exposure and geographic positioning, our team's ability to execute, and our commitment to continuous improvement. We will continue to drive value for our customers through our applications expertise, differentiated best-in-class technology, and direct sales and service and support. At this time, let's turn to your questions.
Ladies and gentlemen, if you have a question at this time, please press star then one on your touch-tone telephone. If your question has been answered or you wish to remove yourself from the queue, please press the pound key. Our first question comes from Kevin Maczka of BB&T Capital Markets. Please go ahead.
Thanks. Good morning.
Good morning.
Good morning.
Mike, I guess first question, and I appreciate the color you just gave on the 2012 acquisitions, but if you go back to the two big ones, EDI and Xaloy, I thought originally we were thinking in terms of 2012 – fiscal 2013, that we'd see maybe $0.25 or even $0.30 of accretion from those deals, and it looks like earnings are pretty flat as you look at the first three quarters of the year. Can you just comment a little bit more about relative to your own internal expectations, how they're doing? Or is it just some softness elsewhere against very difficult comps that's, you know, in the core business that's kind of driving these flatter earnings?
Yeah. I'd say in the short term, most of what we're seeing is really some softness in the core business, combined with conscious decisions to step up spending in certain areas. I'd say most of what you're seeing here in the short term is a little bit of softness in the core business. I'd say, as it relates to the acquisitions, you know, we made some comments the last quarter that we were a bit behind in terms of a couple of specific end markets, and I'd say we're still a little bit behind where we'd like to be, probably a couple of quarters behind where we'd like to be, in particular in specific end markets.
We are encouraged by new applications, particularly in the dies business, that we're getting some traction on, but we're probably a couple of quarters behind. In the long run, consumption is still strong. Even in this a little softer short-term environment, we're looking at 6%-7% plastics growth. In the long run, when supply and demand are balanced out, we feel pretty good about where those businesses are going, and we're working on, you know, new product development opportunities to continue to drive growth beyond that. We're encouraged. I'd say in the short term, though, it's more of the softer macro affecting our core business.
Okay. Maybe one for Greg. You mentioned the strong sequential incremental margins in the quarter and again, what you're expecting next quarter. When we get out into Q4 and beyond, and we've anniversaried these big deals and you've got some planned higher spending in tech, I'm just wondering if you can kind of frame what we ought to be thinking about in terms of incrementals on a year-over-year basis once things normalize here and we've anniversaried the deals?
Yeah, I think to a large extent, Kevin, some of that depends on what kind of growth we expect to see in those out periods. You know, if you exclude the acquisitions, as we've shown historically, if we're driving that top-line growth, you know, more at a higher rate than what you might expect, the inflationary impact on your spending to be, those incremental margins are very strong. The same would be true in these acquired properties as well as if we're looking at sequential revenue growth over what they're delivering. Although their leverage is not as strong, they're still, you know, on a full year basis, pretty strong performing businesses. Same concept there. If we're generating incremental revenue, that's gonna translate into pretty strong incremental margins.
Again, some of that, you know, the response is a bit, it depends what's, you know, to a certain extent, what's that macroeconomic view or outlook gonna be in that out quarter.
Right. I understand that, Greg, and I know it's hard to call this because you have some variables like mix and macro and other things that are maybe beyond your control. Again, we just saw 59%, and you're calling 56% next quarter. This is sequential, but with the current mix of business, including these lower margin acquisitions, we ought to not be thinking about that as a sustainable year-over-year basis, though, right?
On a sequential basis, yes. You know, if we're seeing growth sequentially, I think that's the kind of mix we could see.
Yeah.
On a year over year-
Kevin, you know, the incremental growth was about 8%, and you deliver those kinds of margins. I think what Greg's trying to say, if you see something in that range, it's not unusual to expect that kind of margin. If it's more like 2%, you're not likely necessarily to see that because we have some, in the short term, conscious step up in strategic spending.
Right.
Again, the tech strategic spending continues throughout the back half at an incremental $2 million rate?
Yes.
Okay. Got it. Thank you.
Yes. Just to be clear, when you say incremental, it's about $2 million per quarter.
Right.
Right.
Okay. Thank you.
Our next question comes from Liam Burke of Janney Montgomery Scott. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Good morning, Mike. Good morning, Greg.
Hey, Liam.
Mike, on the traditional electronics piece of the Advanced Technology business, you mentioned that there was some potential life in that part of the business last quarter. Has there been any follow-through there? Are you seeing any additional activity?
I'd say minor additional activity there, not a step up in recovery that the industry guys are projecting. I'd say we've seen continued activity, but not the kind of level of step up that you would anticipate with a sort of more robust growth in the more traditional packaging and test and inspection. The industry analysts are still forecasting that to start to pick up in the second half of the year and be pretty solid into next year. I'd say, you know, we had some orders then, we have some orders now, but not a trend that we're ready to call yet.
I mean, even with that piece of the business sort of muddling along, the rest of the segments, mobile, the special electronics and medical are all humming along okay?
Yeah. Mobile still continue to be strong. MEMS still strong. The medical stuff is doing very nicely. It's more the traditional, back end kind of stuff that is really not doing much yet.
Okay, great. Thank you.
Our next question comes from Matt Summerville of KeyBanc. Please go ahead.
Morning. Couple questions. If you look on a year-over-year basis, your revenue's up round number $70 million, your operating profit's up about $1.5 million. I know FX is a drag. You mentioned growth spend. Can you talk about what the other buckets are, if you will, that impacted that year-over-year leverage and how we should be thinking about that as we model the rest of the year?
Yeah.
You wanna go ahead, Greg?
Well, I was just gonna make a comment. Matt, some of what we're seeing, second quarter versus prior year second quarter is mix. If you recall, prior year second quarter, particularly in adhesives, was just kind of a knockout quarter for us, a high water mark in terms of operating margin. What we're seeing this year is not as strong performance in that portion of the business. Part of it a revenue issue and part of it a change in mix from what we saw last year.
Greg, is there any way you can sort of quantify or isolate what you think the mix dilution was on margins for the whole company year-over-year?
I'm gonna make a high-level comment, and Greg can correct me if I'm wrong here. You know, the acquisitions have had, you know, if you look at it year-over-year, margins are down about 3% or 4%. About half of that sort of the new acquisition mix, and half of that is largely in the sort of core adhesives business with some volume decline and then mix between the sort of three segments we have there. If you look at sort of packaging versus, say, the nonwovens and product assembly. They have some different margins based on cost to serve kind of activities. It's sort of half and half in those two areas, roughly speaking.
It's a portion of it is the dilutive effect of the acquisitions as we talk about the year-over-year margin trend, and then the other half, both within this, call it the core segment margin dilution, and then the step out in this advanced tech area, of this $2 million.
Mike, can you maybe spend a moment just talking about the linearity or lack thereof you saw in incoming order rates. Are things volatile week to week, month-to-month? Are you seeing any discernible change in trend?
The answer is they could be volatile week to week, depending on whether big systems orders come in or not, and depending on whether they're in the quarter last year, a year ago. You can have some volatility there. I would say certain segments or product lines have improved in the short term, like packaging, for example. We've seen a definite uptick, and others in the short term have maybe gotten a little softer. Greg called out some commentary around the auto side, and that's really year-over-year comparisons of some big platform orders last year that we didn't see come in in the same period this year. There is some volatility there.
Maybe just a comment or two at a high level around the macro piece might be warranted here. If we go back a quarter, we were suggesting that for the year, to get a 2%+ sort of macro GDP growth of the year, we needed to see sort of 3%+ in the second half of the year. I'd say most of the economists that we follow, and particularly one in particular that we use, IHS, still sees that happening, but probably more of a slope, so more in Q4 than in Q3, and not as much delivery in Q2 as would've been expected sort of a quarter ago. They're still optimistic about that piece of it.
I would say also in many of our end markets, our customers are still what I'd call cautiously optimistic about systems orders coming through, talking to us about placing those orders. We haven't, we just haven't seen those come through yet. We're a little cautious around that, and that's factoring into the guidance we're providing for the next quarter.
Just maybe one more, Mike. In terms of the Advanced Technology business, I guess, well, what are incoming order rates and the discussions you're having with your customers telling you about their new product pipelines and their CapEx spend, particularly as we head into fiscal Q4, just bearing in mind the comps actually even get tougher?
Yeah. I would say in general, on the mobile side, you know, folks are pretty optimistic. Now whether those orders get placed in Q3 or Q4 or slip to Q1, you know, not as clear. I mean, they're indicating they're gonna come in this year, but you know, they could easily move them, you know, a few weeks or a month, and they'd be in the next quarter. I'd say they're still pretty optimistic about new products coming out. The timing, I think, is maybe a little bit questionable at this point. Again, I'd say generally optimistic, generally suggesting they're gonna come in this year. You know, we're probably hedging our bet a little bit there that maybe some of that slips into the early part of next year.
Thanks, guys.
Our next question comes from John Franzreb of Sidoti & Co. Please go ahead.
Good morning, guys.
Hey, John.
Morning, John.
In the expected margin improvement from the acquired businesses, how much of that's gonna be volume driven versus, how much can you do from internal cost savings?
Yeah. If I look at it, you know, John, we still have the same kind of leverage that you know, as Greg said earlier, in our business, so we expect significant incremental margin. In the short term, we're seeing a little bit of the reverse side of that as the volume in certain areas was a little softer. We do see significant synergies, and our expectations of these businesses were sort of high teen businesses that we ultimately could get to the mid-twenties. That sort of move from the high teens to the mid-twenties was largely on the sort of cost side synergy type of improvement.
You know, there's some margin improvement from things like strategic pricing and things like that, but largely on the cost side. We do see some volume leverage potential, and right now that's a little bit negative as opposed to positive.
Looking at the geographic mix, the order's down 9% in Asia Pacific. Can you kind of talk a little bit about what's going on there? What's the biggest drop-off?
Yeah. It really is across all of the businesses in terms of orders at this point. I'd make the general comment that we made on about sort of the business in that customers are still, I'd say, cautiously optimistic, but we're not seeing that translate into the order flow yet. I'd say China is a significant part of that. Part of that in the comment, the earlier question on the back end packaging and the technology side.
Mm-hmm.
Part of that affecting our other businesses, if you look at sort of the latest macro data on China, it's a little soft. We're still pretty confident that the government is gonna impact that to deliver their sort of 7.5%-8% GDP growth for the year. Right now, it's a little softer, and that's translating into people, I'd say, holding up on the order side. If you look at sort of the project activity, it's still very robust, but it's not translating into orders at this point. I'd say that's a fairly substantial China effect there.
Industrial Coatings, if I heard correctly, the orders are down 11%, and you said the powder coating side of the business was up, but the automotive OEM side was down?
Yeah.
Can you just talk a little bit about what's going on, the dynamics there?
Yeah. I'd say this is largely probably a timing kind of issue. If you look at in our sort of 12 weeks last year versus our 12 weeks this year, we had some large platform-type orders come through last year within this quarter that really kind of distort that a bit. You know, our view is over the longer term, that kind of corrects itself, but in the short term, that's kind of distorting the numbers. From our perspective, that's not a fundamental hey, auto is falling off. It's really a timing issue.
John, those can be large dollar system sales, so the timing of when those hit in the quarter can really skew the numbers.
Okay. Thanks, Greg. One last question. On the share repurchase, in the last quarter, or the one just completed, what was the average purchase price you were buying back at?
Hang on a second. We need to look that.
Yeah.
Look that up. If you recall, when we talked about that, we've got an authorization. We said we'd like to be optimistic or opportunistic.
Right.
We also have to offset the dilution, which I think we said was sort of in the mid-$30 million range. You know, we're trying to do two things, be opportunistic but mainly offset that dilution to start.
Right.
John, we bought back a little over 340,000 shares at $65.69 per share.
Okay. Thank you very much, guys.
Okay.
Our next question comes from Jason Ursaner with CJS Securities. Please go ahead.
Morning.
Hi, Jason.
Morning, Jason.
Just in adhesive, you mentioned strength in systems during the quarter offset weakness in packaging, but then in the most recent orders, it was strength in packaging offsetting other lines.
Yeah.
Was there a clear inflection point you saw during the quarter from an order perspective? You know, did it coincide with the launch of the joint product with Henkel at all?
You got that correct. In the quarter, the packaging business was softer, but we've really seen from an order standpoint in the last number of weeks that picked back up, which is encouraging. I'd say the impact of the launch has not really been felt there. I mean, we have, you know, over 100 quarters for new systems there, but we're just starting to deliver the first few, so that's not a big impact in the quarter or a big impact in the order rates. We're very encouraged, though, with the customer reaction to that complete new product line, and we think it's gonna be very successful for us. That's really not impacted the near term.
We are certainly encouraged to see the packaging piece come up, particularly in a backdrop where food and beverage consumption is actually pretty modest, and it actually was down in the quarter, you know, overall food and beverage consumption. To see packaging start to pick back up, it's very encouraging.
Jason, I'd characterize the product lines within that segment as packaging is the largest product line in that segment. That tends to be the steady performer. Where we say it may be down, we're generally not talking about big movements. The other product lines that are more, you know, call it larger dollar systems oriented, you'll get the timing impact of when those systems may or may not hit. You'll see larger swings in those product lines.
Okay. In plastics, I guess, can you give more detail on the difference in order rates between the system OEMs that are building new machine type of capacity versus more replacement demand from end users at utilization? You know, are you seeing growth in the latter or both down right now?
No, I would say on the end user side, we're seeing sort of the replacement business be pretty steady. I'd say on the new system side, for some of the new applications, we're starting to see that pick up. In sort of one film application, the biaxial film application, that's the one where there's sort of a short-term mismatch in supply and demand with some lower capacity that went in last year. That's the one we're working through. We're focused on really offsetting that with the new applications, and we're getting some traction there. The end users are continuing to buy at a pretty steady pace, not too different than what we see in our other businesses in terms of, you know, parts revenue being up as operating rates remain solid.
Okay. Just following up on the questions on the tech orders, what was the month-to-month linearity like there during the 12-week period? I guess I'm just trying to understand if the softness in orders for test dispense was more correlated to the overall semi cap industry where it's actually been improving month-to-month or if it's more, you know, company specific to the underfill dispense market, given the capacity that got put in last year ahead of deliveries, or would have been towards the later part of the period?
Yeah, we're taking a look at it. I mean, right now, for overall advanced tech, we're looking at sort of the latest orders being essentially flat. Greg's kind of taking a quick look here to see if we can answer.
Yeah, I don't think in terms of volume. You know, we typically don't look into the particular 12-week period. Specific to your question, I don't think we see any discernible pattern within those 12 weeks.
You know, as we talked about before, and the earlier question was around sort of launch cycle on new products that we could have Q2, Q3, early part of Q4 look different year-over-year based on sort of launch timing and patterns. As you recall, we had a pretty solid Q2 last year and a step up in Q3, and then a solid Q4, but a little softer on the tech side. Right now, we're seeing it kind of flat on an order basis. You know, that could change depending on where these sort of new orders fall. As I said earlier, our customers are saying they're gonna fall within the year. They can move back between Q3 and Q4.
You know, we've hedged that back a little bit just based on timing, where we've got pretty good view to the new platforms. We're encouraged by that, but the timing's not as certain.
Okay. Appreciate all the commentary. Thanks.
Our next question comes from Christopher Glynn of Oppenheimer. Please go ahead.
Thanks. Good morning.
Morning, Chris.
Morning.
Just wondering if you can make a comment on what Japan operating margin is historically relative to the overall and what the FX impact might be on that currently?
The margins in general in Japan are good. We've got a good position in unique products that we fine-tune for that market, so they're good. They're as good as sort of the overall business, and in some areas maybe a little bit better, depending on the particular product line. On the currency side.
You know, Chris, clearly, the yen had the biggest impact on a regional basis with the currency impact, which, of course, we said was about $0.03 impact in the quarter.
It's largely translation.
It's largely the translation effect of bringing back those revenues and spending back in the dollar. A weaker yen obviously has hurt.
Okay. On ATS, wondering if looking at the long-term growth, you know, you have really tough comps here, but it is pretty seasonal. I'm just wondering to what extent you think comparisons on an annualized basis have potentially reached a plateau of sorts in some areas.
I'm not 100% sure I understand the question, but let me just comment on long-term growth. If I'm not addressing it, come back. We still view the tech segment on a long-term basis over the cycle to be something that we can grow organically at sort of double-digit, around 10%. That's in part the mix of what we see on the medical side, and that's in part a function of some of these niche applications on the electronic side, as well as broadening in our sort of fluid management, EFD type businesses, broadening the general assembly applications from where we are today. Long term, we still see that as something that approaches double digits, sort of top line over the cycle.
In the short term, you can have sort of the timing issues associated with the systems, orders and so forth. I'm not quite sure that's answering your question.
Yeah. Well, I guess you know, as you're framing it as through the cycle, we've had several years of very strong double digits. I'm just wondering if that double digits through the cycle needs to be marked to market to your view from here over the next few years, you know, given that you've been significantly above that for a few years?
Yeah. Let me just kind of break that down a little bit. I would say on the medical piece, we're encouraged. I would say on the broadening of the EFD business to more general applications, we're encouraged. I mean, obviously, we don't operate outside the macro environment, so when we make those kind of comments, we're thinking more of global growth in the 3.5% and not 2% range. You know, your guess is as good as ours is what happens in the short term. What I'd say on the electronic side is two things. We still envision, you know, we have the drivers of underfill, we have the mobile piece, we have the niche market applications.
What I'd say as the wild card is what do you think is gonna happen with the traditional backend packaging piece? If you think smartphones aren't gonna grow at 50% rates now, they're more like 20%. In the future, maybe they're more in the teens. That's a you know sort of a negative impact. On the other hand, if you do think some of the more traditional applications are going to come back from something that's been 0% to negative over the last probably 18 months. That's the potential upside in the near term. It's, what's the balance of those two? It's hard to call at the moment. As I said earlier, the industry sort of analysts that follow that back-end piece expect to see some improvement this year and a pretty solid next two years.
We have to see that play out.
Yeah. The other dynamic I'd add is and where we may see a moderation in growth rates for devices like smartphones, the other dynamic of new features being embedded into these phones or new models or new product introductions, that of course is another driver of revenue for Nordson.
Great. Thanks for all that color.
Okay.
Our next question comes from Walt Liptak of Global Hunter Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thanks. Good morning.
Hey, Walt.
Hey, Walt.
I don't wanna beat a dead horse on this timing of the tech orders, but could you just help me check some logic on here? My understanding was early in the year, the electronics firms design new products, and then your equipment gets, you know, customized to what they're doing, and then the orders go out in the second quarter, and then the equipment gets put in place in the summer so that new products can hit the Christmas selling season. Is that right? If things pushed out a little bit, why did they push out?
What I would say is that's generally true for the more traditional kinds of applications. I'd say the mobile device in particular moves around a bit based on when particular customers decide to drive their launches. Some have come out right now with new products. Some are rumored to come out in the next month or two. Some are rumored to come out in the sort of late summer, early fall. I'd say the one thing that's a little different from that, Walt, is sort of the smartphone piece, which tends to have a different sort of launch strategy and some, you know, some competitive dynamics going on there that don't fit the sort of traditional back end, so they can move around a little bit more.
That's really the commentary we're making is specific customers are talking about different timing, and it can move around, you know, several months at a time, maybe even a quarter at a time. So that doesn't fit necessarily with this Christmas scenario, whereas historically, most of the traditional back-end packaging pieces that were linked into the PC side in general did fit pretty well to that sort of commentary.
Okay, good. Thanks for that. Then, you know, in your commentary, you talked a little bit about the acquisitions and in one of the questions, but I wanted to see if I can get a little bit more clarity on, you know, exploiting the EDI and just some more color around that sales trend that you're seeing. I think you said it was up sequentially, but you know, what's going on there with the different customers. My understanding here too is that, you know, the tooling is based on new product development, you know, what geographic regions for those acquisitions are positive or negative.
Yeah. I'd say just a general comment that we're trying to make is on the film side of the business, there's a little imbalance on capacity at the moment, particularly on biaxial film. That affects the EDI business more than the Xaloy business, which goes into both film and to injection molding applications. The overall end demand for plastic from a consumption standpoint even now is running in that sort of 6%-7% range. That's a good positive trend. In the short term, in that one area, we've got you know a bit of an imbalance. I'd say Europe in general for both businesses like we see in our core businesses is pretty soft given there's a recession going on there.
Even in Germany, you know, where a lot of the sort of OEMs are concentrated for these kinds of businesses, things are soft. I'd say we're encouraged a bit more. U.S. is okay in the emerging markets. You know, we're encouraged, but I'd say Europe is the one that's particularly soft there, and more on the OEM side versus the end customer side.
Okay. You mentioned a couple of times the integration efforts and, you know, that you're getting into mid-teen or mid-20s margins. I wonder if we can get a timing on when you think you might get there and, you know, what the macro needs to look like and, you know, what are some of the efforts? Are there plant consolidations going on, or is this procurement synergies? Just some detail on the kind of cost takeout that you can do?
At a high level, we, you know, we started with one sort of modest facility consolidation. We do see, you know, leverage from a procurement standpoint. You know, you have to go through the sort of the qualification process that takes a little bit while, but we do see significant leverage on the sort of low cost sourcing initiatives that we have underway. We do see some benefits around segmentation and some strategic pricing. In particular, I'd say, you know, the businesses are a bit behind where we are in our Lean Six Sigma effort, and we have tons of projects that are lined up that we're executing there around the Lean Six Sigma activity, and that they're gonna play out over the next couple of years.
We're really encouraged by what we see there. The real upside, quite frankly, is gonna be on the top line. We're getting some encouragement. You know, we've had some, you know, we're doing the typical sort of cross-selling activity in the short term where you have, you know, one's a customer of one business but not the other. The real leverage is coming on, gonna come around in the long run on the integrated sale of, say, the sort of total film applications as an example, and we're getting some interest there at high level customer. And that's the kind of thing that will probably play out, not this year, but in the next couple of years.
We have to do some structuring to make sure that we've got all of the sales and support people trained, cross-trained and the engineering organization supporting them, and that takes a little bit of time. At the end of the day, you know, there's upside on the top line as well. We're pretty encouraged by what we see in the traditional areas I mentioned, and then in the extensive list of project opportunities from a Lean Six Sigma standpoint.
Okay. Got it. Okay. I've got a few more questions, but I'll take them offline. Just a kind of last one on this, you know, the acquisitions that you've done in plastics. You know, where are we at now? Are we done now? Are there other acquisitions that you can add to this portfolio?
What I would say is one of the things that we commented on, when we made these acquisitions is it was we wanted to get scale to be a leader from a technology and a market standpoint, and we've got that. But we also mentioned there that these were fragmented around individual products that make up sort of the chain that mirrors what we do in our adhesives business. There are still additional opportunities to upgrade and consolidate in a fairly fragmented market. There's additional opportunities we're looking at.
Okay. Got it. All right. Thank you.
Okay.
Our next question comes from Charlie Brady of BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead.
Hey, thanks. Morning, guys.
Morning, Charlie.
Morning.
Can you tell, I maybe missed it, the mix of parts for total company and for Adhesive Dispensing in the quarter?
Yeah. Charlie, total mix was off if we think about the legacy business, 'cause that's a benchmark that you all are familiar with, was about 45%, that was down about 1 percentage point from where it was last year. In terms of segment, again, adhesive tends to run a bit higher than that total company average, but not too far away from that point.
All right. Thanks. Can you give us what the cash from operations was in the quarter?
Yeah. Cash from operations was about $63 million in the quarter.
Okay. I guess I just wanted on the packaging, your commentary on packaging softness. I guess that's you know kind of continuing to be soft because of overcapacity. Could you just expand on that a little bit? I mean, is it stable where it is, or is it getting you know better or worse? When you-
Are you talking about on the plastics side, or are you talking about on the cardboard paper type side, Charlie?
Sorry, the plastics side.
Yeah. What I'd say is the operating rates are going up. The sort of trigger for new investment is getting closer, you know, based on operating rates going up. We're still seeing overall demand, which then translates into operating rates, demand being up 6%-7%. It's really just an absorption timeframe. Yes, it's improving. There were some large orders in late 2011 and 2012 that created a little bit of short-term overcapacity, particularly with the softening macro environment.
Okay. Great. Thanks. That's it for me. Thank you.
Okay.
Our next question comes from Greg Halter of the Great Lakes Review. Please go ahead.
Yes. Good morning.
Morning.
I wondered if you could comment on the competitive environment in each of the three segments?
Just overall, we've got, generally speaking, good competitors in each of the three segments. We haven't really seen any significant changes that I would say in the quarter. You know, we continue to focus on, you know, the model, the business model that makes us successful, which is starting with technology. You know, we've invested in each of our areas in new technology, like the Freedom System that's come out this past quarter in the adhesives area, but we've got similar innovations in our technology and in our coatings business. Our view here is to continue to stay ahead of the crowd by being that technology leader and then providing the best support and service. At the end of the day, we haven't seen any significant changes within the quarter in the competitive landscape.
All right. I just wanted to be clear on the swing in the other expense and other income, the $565,000 versus $137,000. Is that primarily due to the foreign currency translation?
That's correct.
All right. Thank you.
Okay.
Again, ladies and gentlemen, if you have a question, please press star then one at this time. Our next question is a follow-up from Christopher Glynn of Oppenheimer. Please go ahead.
Get the context around some earlier comments earlier in the year for expectation for flat full-year margins, if a certain growth rate realized the macro has come into play, and there's some, you know, negatives relative to the full-year growth rate to get to flat margins. Just wondering if overall we could kind of reframe that comment?
Yeah. If you look at the comments we made last quarter, what we suggested is if the overall global sort of economic environment for 2013 was about what it was in 2012, so read that as 2.2%-2.3% kind of GDP, and we were able to generate the same kind of revenue growth that was sort of 7%-8%, then we would expect that our margins would come in at that sort of, I think it was 20-
24.
24% range. You know, our view is still the volume leverage is there if we can deliver that kind of top line. Our view in the current macro scenario is most economists still think the second half is gonna be considerably stronger so that the year comes in at that 2.2% kind of range. I'd say they've shifted it a bit more to stronger Q4 and slightly weaker Q3.
Calendar.
Calendar is what we've seen. Q2 is probably a little lighter than they would've forecast a quarter ago. Read that as more back-end loaded. I think there is a potential impact if they're right, and who knows whether they're gonna be right, that some of that slips over into the next year as it relates to our fiscal year. We'd still. If they deliver that, we think we're gonna grow above that, and the margins, based on our incremental performance would be there. I'd say what we're saying right now, at a high level, they're still encouraged macro-wise. Our customers are still cautious. We've shaved back our near-term Q3 projections based on, you know, based on really just not seeing that translate into orders, even though our customers are telling us they're gonna place them.
Great. Thanks again.
Okay. Allie, we have time maybe for about one more question.
I'm actually showing no further questions at this time.
Okay. Well, let me just make, you know, a couple comments here at the end. You know, number one, a strong quarter, and our team did a great job in a fairly soft macro environment. Number two, we're very focused on delivering value to our customers, so if there's opportunity to secure volume out there, we're gonna get it. We do need a little help from the macro environment, but if that materializes, we'll be able to deliver, and we'll be able to deliver the incremental margin. It really just comes down to whether or not we see that translate in the next quarter or so. I would say that our customers are more optimistic than pessimistic, and it may be just an issue of timing.
Thank you for participating in today's call and continuing to support Nordson.
If you have any calls, this is Jim. I'll be around today, and be happy to take any follow-ups that you might have. Thanks again, everybody, and enjoy your long weekend. Bye-bye.
Ladies and gentlemen, this does conclude today's conference. You may all disconnect, and have a wonderful day.