All right, so we're gonna get started. Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Dae Lee. I'm an Internet Analyst at JP Morgan. With us today is Offerpad's Founder and CEO, Brian Bair. Brian founded Offerpad in 2015 with the mission to provide the best way to buy and sell a home. Fast forward nine years, Offerpad is one of the largest home buyer in the U.S. With that, let's get started. Brian, thanks for joining us today.
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
All right. So we're gonna start off high level. So for those in the audience who might be less familiar with Offerpad, could you give us an overview of what Offerpad is and what makes Offerpad unique?
Sure. Offerpad's a real estate platform. People can come to Offerpad and sell their home within 24 hours. Basically takes them a few minutes to upload their home. We'll give them a cash offer within 24 hours. We also have four distinct services. We have our home buying business, which is straight from the homeowner, a renovation business that will do renovations on behalf of others. People don't look at Offerpad this way, but not as one of the largest home buyers, but we're also one of the largest renovation companies in the country from doing our own renovations. So now we outsource that to others. And we have our what we call Direct+. That's where we allow other investors to buy top of funnel with us, which is our Direct +.
And then we have our partner program, and our partner program is where we work with agents and has four different services to our real estate agents.
Okay. Yeah, we'll touch on renovate later, too. But, I mean, when you look across those, like, major services that you offer, like, what's the mix across those services today?
Yeah, so we're making really good progress with those services. You know, a few years ago, about 90%... Well, probably 95% of everything was through just our cash offer business. Now, about a third of our business is coming from our other platforms. So, like, renovation is making really good headway. You know, what we wanna do, the goal is, if someone comes to Offerpad, we wanna have the solution and, and solve the hardest part, that's the transaction. So when someone comes to us, they can accept our cash offer, or we can give them to one of our partners, if they can help them list up their home on the open market. And always come back and sell it for a cash offer at any time.
So, we're making really good progress with all of those services, and we'll continue to do so.
Okay. And when you look at your cash offer side, I mean, obviously, they have options in front of them. So, like, why do you think sellers sell to Offerpad, and how could you get more homeowners to sell to you?
Yeah, so the easy answer is certainty and control. You know, it—what we provided when we founded Offerpad is to remove the friction out of the real estate transaction. So people could come, like I said, up, tell us about their home and get an offer within 24 hours. Because all the customer does is wanna close their home. They just want their home sold, so that's what we provide. So the certainty and control and removing the friction is key. The other part of that is, as we continue to grow our market share, you know, as we roll out more services, there's a lot of ways to get market share in one market, not just through your cash offer business. So we'll continue to have other services, not just our cash offer business.
Okay. I guess looking across your offerings, how—like, how would you frame how big the opportunity is for you guys?
I'm biased, but I like... As I look at what we wanna do in every product that we roll out, we look at it as: How can we solve a problem, and, quote, unquote, "Why would anyone go anywhere else?" If they can come to us and get a strong cash offer and/or have the choice to list their home on the open market, and/or decide to potentially renovate their home in the future, we wanna provide products that separate ourselves from others, but also gives the consumers exactly what they want. That's the control and to remove the friction from it. So I think the opportunity is massive.
As we saw, before, you know, the music stopped about a year and a half ago, and the interest rates and everything, I'm sure we'll talk about-
Mm-hmm
... you know, you saw our market share continue to grow and grow and grow. And like I said, what we—the service we offer, especially our cash offer business, is exactly what the homeowner wants. They want their home sold, and that's what we can provide.
Okay, got it. All right, so let's touch on the housing market since you mentioned it. So, you know, you are one of the biggest home buyer in the U.S. I do think it's important, and it'll be helpful to hear your assessment of the current state of the industry and, I guess, what key assumptions guide your current operational decisions.
Yeah, so it's, we're starting to see it stabilize definitely from what it was over maybe a year ago or even, you know, several months ago. The thing that's still the most vulnerable is the interest rates. And so from the overall market, you have a seller that's locked into their current mortgage rates, right? And so they're gonna have to give up that mortgage, and so that's where you see some of that. But then you have a buyer that is struggling with affordability. And so one of the things that we talk about all the time is there is less transaction, and, you know, people talk about there's a month-and-a-half supply of homes, which is true, but also you have buyers that are trying to get into that home from an affordability standpoint.
A move in 25-50 basis points in mortgage rates really affects what they can buy.
Mm-hmm.
And so those are the things that we've been watching very closely. Though I'll tell you that you're seeing the market, especially home prices and things, stabilize again from where they were. But so, you know, that's what we're seeing.
Okay. I guess given the changes you talked about that happened in the industry over the past year and a half, like, how has Offerpad adapted its approach and operations? Like, I think you talked about industry reaching some level of stability, but has your operations reached stability as well?
Yeah. Operations definitely reached stability. You know, we've had to course-correct when you know, when the market started to change and adjust. But we've been... You know, real estate's always doing something in every market. I say all the time, there's always, you can never get a normal market, people say that. It's just, there's always something going on. But we've definitely seen something that I think is really generational over the last year and a half of just everything that we just talked about earlier-
Mm-hmm
... with mortgage rates going up so fast and, you know, home prices in a lot of markets increased 60%, 70%, 80% with 2 years when the run-up. And so you have this, just this kind of standoff right now that's happening. But what we've done is, you know, we've looked at it, and we've been very disciplined in how we're gonna approach it, and what type of home we're going to buy to make sure that we're buying, one, affordability-focused on affordability on the home prices. But also, you know, the markets and where we're buying is a little bit different than what we've seen in the past as well. The markets we're focused on, that's been more of the affordable markets, places like Charlotte and Raleigh and those areas.
Mm-hmm. Okay, I mean, I guess, does that mean you know, a similar shift in the market were to happen in the future, like, could you do things differently to better navigate through that kind of shift?
Yeah, like, first and foremost, we pride ourselves in always adjusting, being flexible, and always trying to get better every day. That's, that's, that's just kind of one of our core messages as a company. As you look through the rapid mortgage rates, there's not a lot we could have... It's never happened in the last 30 or 40 years. But what we have done is, as we roll out more of our asset-light services, doesn't make us so heavy on the asset-heavy services, on the cash offer business. So as you roll out other services, people don't have to look for us just as a cash offer option.
Mm-hmm.
Again, they can list their home or use other services that we have.
Okay, that makes sense. And I guess this is maybe a million-dollar or maybe a billion-dollar question, but, like, where do you think the industry is headed in the next 6-12 months? I guess, first of all, what would you like to see in-
Mm
... happen in the market? And then conversely, like, where could things go wrong?
Yeah, I think in the, you know, even with the, with the recent NAR settlement and everything else, you know, I've been screaming from the rooftops for a long time, one of the reasons Offerpad was founded is the way that everyone looks at traditional real estate is changing, and it's gonna, and it's gonna continue to evolve and change. And everything that affects our life, even from the way that you buy and sell a car to, you know, food delivery, to everything else, is changing, and housing is going to change drastically as well. The customers are going to want consumers want more certainty, more control of, of the transaction. And so, as you, as you look at the, over the next six to 12 months-
Mm
... I think you're gonna continue to see, especially, with the new lawsuit, and you see what happens to buyer broker commission or commissions, you're gonna see sellers get more and more used to dealing straight. I'm sorry, buyers, dealing straight with the sellers.
Mm-hmm.
Instead of having, you know, the. There are a couple things that are significant there, is that, you know, one of the reasons a buyer needs an agent is so they can get access to the home. That's why that's a key point, and to help them with the contracts, and to show various homes. You know, as we look at our positioning, we have an Instant Access product that people can access our homes directly through our app. So they can open the homes themselves. They can submit an offer to us directly. So I think that, you're gonna see that evolve and starting to change over time. And you're gonna see more and more be tech-enabled and more and more consumer control than what it's been.
Because if you really look at it, real estate from the transaction process, you know, and when you sell your home traditionally, yes, you can look at what your home is online and see pictures online, and maybe the price, or a guess of what the price would be, but everything else has been the same since 1984, of the transaction. I mean, everything is very, very... So all of those different friction points are going to change. It's going to be a much easier process in the future. Not in the next six or 12 months-
Right
... but that, over time, that's what you're gonna see.
I mean, that was one of the questions I had in here, maybe for later, but, I mean, since you mentioned it, so it sounds like you think NAR settlement could drive changes in the industry that could be favorable for you guys. I mean, does that mean you guys have to shift your value proposition a little bit going forward?
No, actually, we were, I'd like to say I was, you know, this smart, I knew this was happening-
Mm
... but, I knew real estate was changing fundamentally. But what's happened over the last year, especially with the buyer agent commissions and what's happened, is like a lot of our passthrough fees and our service fees are commissions that we pay on the other end.
Mm-hmm.
So what happens, that gives us more ability to control the process. But just like Instant Access, we've had Instant Access since 2017. We've had that for a while. So we're really set up for that, and what you're gonna see. Now, agents aren't going away tomorrow. You know, none of this is gonna happen overnight, and no one really even knows where it's gonna, you know, really, ultimately, land. But once you open that where buyers can have more direct communication with sellers, I think that's when you're gonna start seeing the industry move over and over again.
Okay. All right. So it doesn't sound like NAR scares you, but, I mean, looking out next six to 12 months, are there anything-
Mm
... that could go wrong or, or something that's keeping you up at night?
No, I mean, listen, I would, I'd love to see... You know, mortgage rates are always the thing. If you remember, going into this year-
Mm-hmm
... we were expecting a Fed drop-
Mm-hmm
... you know, of 2, 3, 4, whatever you wanted to believe of what the indication was. So, but what we've done, and this is kind of the part being disciplined, we've built the model now to that, you know, we're prepared for the amount of volume we expect right now and not expecting for hypergrowth or needing that interest rates to drop.
Mm-hmm.
But the one thing that we were talking about this morning that's really interesting about this market is that you have sellers and buyers that are just. There's this massive demand. When you see interest rates go down just a little bit, you see your buying activity or showing activity goes up drastically.
Mm.
I mean, literally day by day. Buyers never watched interest rates this closely in the past. Now they do, for, you know, to get into their home. And then you see the same thing on the selling side as well. So you just see people that are there. There's this pent-up demand that's gonna happen. It's just, you know, and it is a lot of the sensitivity of the interest rates.
Right. Yep. We're all holding our breath for that to happen.
Yeah.
Okay. So digging closer to your business, so, I mean, when you think about driving growth versus improving profitability, like, given where the industry is at right now, like, what's more important?
Yeah. Profitability. So as we, as we look at it, I think we, we talked about in our last earnings call, but, you know, we're really focused to getting to EBITDA profit by the end of the year.
Mm-hmm.
and then responsible, and then growth after that. Again, preparing, knowing what we know now about the market conditions, we wanna get, we want to get profitable, and we're making massive strides and headway, you know, headway in doing that.
Mm-hmm.
And again, what I really like about that, it's not just through our cash offer business. It's through our other channels. And I was telling the, you know, the team before we got here is that a lot of these different, asset-light businesses are, in my opinion, are going to be the lowest volume we've ever seen from those channels. Like, the massive growth in our renovation business, with our really our enterprise B2B business, has grown, in this environment.
So there's a lot of opportunity, but from that perspective, I really like that we're seeing dollars come from different revenue streams, and that's going to help our growth, help us get profitable quicker, and help us invest in growth to grow again.
Right. Okay. And I guess in internet, like, becoming profitable and generating free cash flow could be viewed differently. So just wondering, like, does becoming profitable means you're now generating free cash flow?
Yeah
... or from-
St-
I guess, where, where is that?
Yeah, yeah. So, so step by step, one, get EBITDA profitable there.
Mm-hmm.
And then the next very close step is we want to start creating free cash flow on that end of it. And then once we get this, then, you know, again, start to grow. But we again, controlling what we can control right now is what we keep saying.
Mm-hmm
... is there's over the last year and a half, there's all the uncertainty, and so having to evolve and adapt to, like, the way we did. Again, I like with the position we are right now, but now we got to focus on let's get EBITDA profitable, then cash flow profitable, and then...
Okay. How close behind is cash flow profitability behind EBITDA profitability? Is that something you can comment on?
Yeah, I think - I don't know if I could comment on that with ... I'm looking at my CFO right here, and he's getting nervous of even anything that I'm going to state. No, no. It's - What I will say is that. One should follow the other one fairly closely. I would ... I mean, we've been as disciplined as we have been with our OpEx -
Mm-hmm
... and our margins from our asset-light businesses. We're making really good headway on that end.
Right. And it is just interest that sits between EBITDA and free cash flow, right? Okay. All right. Okay, so let's dig into your cash offer side. So I know you, you said you're you know, prioritizing profitability, but, you know, top-line growth is obviously very important as well.
Mm-hmm.
So, like, what are the key drivers of your top-line growth?
Yeah, and this is, this is, this is interesting because I feel like what I, what I hear a lot is, "When are you going to start buying, you know, thousand of homes-
Mm-hmm
... a couple thousand of homes a month again? This is why it's really important for us to be disciplined. Like, for example, if I'd have done that three or four months ago, and interest rates did what, what no one expected them to do. So we just got. We, we want to stay disciplined and continue to grow.
Mm-hmm.
Not, you know, not hockey stick growth, but look at our revenue, make sure we're buying the right type of product in this environment. Again, like I mentioned, affordable. Now, we're starting to widen our buy box, so we can see... And that's the other thing to explain. So everything for us is a risk metric of every home that we buy. And so as market has more uncertainty, our buy box narrows.
Mm-hmm.
And as we see more certainty in the market or, you know, and this is very market-specific, subdivision-specific, you can see our buy box continue to grow and grow. And so when you open up from the price point to the type of home that we buy, and everything else. And I will tell you, the one thing that has played nicely in this environment is, I mean, just the. For us on having the renovation skill set we do, a lot of the people over the last year have been people—it's really been a life moment, that they, they're not moving because they want to move, they're moving because something's happened, that they have to move.
And so us being able to acquire their home, but also put renovation to that home and put a better product on the market for the next buyer, is, has been really important. And so it's, it's, in some cases, these people don't have another option because their home is, you know, really rough to live in or other situations going on. We can go in there and take that and again, put a better product on the market once we buy it.
Okay. And I guess, you know, you kind of touched on this already, but, I mean, what do you need to see to accelerate your pace of home acquisition? And does that require additional investments?
Yeah. So I would say, we're starting to see a little bit of that now, but I would say more consistency in the mortgage, and just the, I'm a broken record-
Mm-hmm
... the interest rates on that end of it. And again, in normal worlds, it wouldn't be, but just because the affordability is so tight on these markets of people getting into the home. So those are things that we've. So we're watching that very, very closely. And again, it's all market-specific. The Midwest is much different than, like, the Phoenixes and, you know, Denvers and those areas, you know. And so we're just looking at, you know, so we can accelerate that.
Mm-hmm.
But in the meantime, as we're doing that, and being disciplined on what we're buying, and, we feel buying the right product in this environment, we're also focused on the other three, service products that we have that we can grow, like we've seen with Renovate. Our, the ability to get, in this time, to get top of funnel from-- not just our straight to consumer marketing and advertising, but through our agent network. And so we have-- We, we launched a product with our agents, and so agents are coming to us first before they list a house on MLS-
Mm-hmm
... to see what we can pay for that home. So we're getting top of funnel different places that help balance sheet and CAC and see all those things.
Right. Before we get to your source of traffic or source of
Mm-hmm
... seller leads, but you're still taking share even in this rate environment, right? So you are still driving solid.
Right. Yeah, because, you know, I think we're, like, 2%-4% during, you know, when, during the normal times, I would say, or back before the music stopped.
Mm-hmm.
Now, we're still, compared to the transaction, we're still getting, you know, good market penetration.
Got it.
Now, we still want to get that back. We still want to grow that back-
Right
... because our buy box has been a little more narrow, so we want to open that up and get more. And like I've always said, our ability, because of our renovation, we can buy older product, property, properties that need a little bit more work.
Mm-hmm.
So we can also buy the kind of grade A properties, but go down the funnel. So we can turn that. And the easiest switch we can turn on, I guess what I would want to communicate-
Mm-hmm
... the easiest switch that we can turn on is buying more homes. That is something that depends on what we want to pay and what our risk tolerance is. So, and, you know, again, those are things that we watch daily.
Okay. And you also evolved how you, you know, source sellers. So can you talk a little bit about how I mean, I guess what you used to do to attract sellers, and what's new coming out of the market correction?
Yeah. So, you know, the kind of first phase, the difficulty of especially a model like ours of telling the world, you know, really what we do, is you gotta hit it, you know, through TV, and radio, and billboards, and all the traditional marketing that you'd think of, and then, of course, all the, you know, call to action marketing, all those things. That's been great, and our brand awareness has been, especially in our markets we've been in longer, really strong. But what we've done now is we wanna be a solution center for everybody, and that's not just, you know, sellers and buyers. We wanna meet them where they're at.
So if they have an agent, now we have a product, you know, through agents, that the agent can bring us a home before it hits the market. So... And we're seeing massive increase of requests coming in from the agent community. And because they're dealing with the same thing that we see in our straight-to-consumer platform, a lot of the homes that they have that they're getting also are not list-ready. Some are going through a life moment and those kind of things. So we're a great outlet for an agent to have a cash offering, but also for us to get more top-of-funnel requests and get more looks at what's out there in the market.
Okay. And then I guess one last question on your growth algo. The market expansion was one of your longer term growth drivers, so, and but you put that on pause during-
Mm
... the market correction. So, like, when does that, you know, resume?
Well, and I'll tell you what, what's really cool right now is that market expansion from our cash offer business. We wanna really invest and get in more market penetration in our current markets.
Mm-hmm.
But what's awesome now is that we're in markets like Oklahoma City and Minneapolis, that we don't have our cash offering, but we have our renovation offering.
Mm.
And so our renovation business is there, so we can actually go into markets differently than we've ever had before, and our cash offering can actually follow our renovation business into a market. A lot of the renovation partners we have now are in multiple states and more, and so we can actually grow, and it can help grow our footprint on that end, too.
All right. And it sounds like you're, you're itching to talk about Renovate, so let's, let's talk about it.
Yeah. All right.
You generated $5 million in revenue last quarter.
Mm-hmm.
That compares to $12 million from all of 2023. So you, you kind of talked about this already, but, like, what excites you the most about Renovate?
Yeah, well, I think there's a lot there. You know, we have our renovation business overall. That's when we buy on our own behalf. We have to buy, renovate, and sell a home in 100 days. That's our target on the cash offer business. But then we can let people plug into that, to our renovation teams on their own behalf, like I mentioned. What's really exciting is you can add value to a home through renovation. That's really important. So we can do that on our own behalf through Offerpad, and then other people can use our resources to do that as well. But also there is a key.
We have where we're a little different than most, we have the boots on the ground in most of our markets because we, we need that for our own behalf. And so people can plug into that, use our resources, get the cost efficiency, the time, the quality that we do on behalf of Offerpad homes for their own, for their own home. And so, what I really like about that, and you look at, you know, some of the numbers you quoted there, I mean, we're just at, in my opinion, the tip of the iceberg of where that's gonna grow to.
Because as, you know, people talk a lot about, you know, the SFR world and the investors, and you have really your big five, some of your publicly traded company and all that, but 97% of your of the SFRs or the renters out there are smaller groups that own them. And so they have two issues, normally, is sourcing, where do they find the homes? And two is renovation. And we can solve both those issues for them.
Mm-hmm.
So that's where I get, I get excited about that. But also, just as we continue to grow, we also get cost efficiency overall. So the more renovations we do, it can save us costs on materials and all the other things by continuing to grow, grow in the markets.
Okay. And you touched on this a little bit already, but who are your Renovate customers today? And I guess, what differentiates your renovation service from the choices that they have in front of them?
Yeah. So I think it's important. So we don't. I'm not ready to talk about who we are yet, but think of, you know, some of the big SFRs, you know, think of some of the larger enterprise customers, REO customers, those kind of things, or groups that are out there, that, you know, on that end. But we'll have from very small to very big, depending on where they're at. But what's important in some cases, you know, so why use us instead of somebody else?
Mm.
And actually, one of the things that I'll always say is, you know, you go into somebody, they have their own renovation, they're using a different vendor, and I'll say: Just go side by side. Give us 10 homes, give whoever you're using 10 homes. And because of everything that I mentioned, a lot of even our people on the ground are the guys swinging the hammers, don't know if Offerpad owns this house or somebody else, so they're getting that amount of quality. So just having the boots on the ground is one of the secret sauces, and getting the benefit of all of our costs and efficiencies because of our Offerpad business as well, that they can plug into is really important.
It would be really hard to do that business if you're doing it as only a standalone business.
Mm.
If you talk about all the service lines that we have or product lines we have, they all tie in and mesh with each other, and, you know, create the flywheel. One builds up the other one, and as more business comes, excuse me, the other ones will share in that as well.
Right. So I guess they see it in the results. Okay, and can you talk about the economics of Renovate and how you think about it contributing to your contribution profit?
Yeah. So, you know, our, we're anywhere from, the Renovate's anywhere from 20%-30% are the margins on the renovation business. And so we will see that continue to grow. And what's interesting also about that is, when I say it's kind of just getting going, is a lot of the renovation business that we're seeing right now are more turn properties, 'cause people aren't buying new homes that need full renovations. So you're seeing a lot of the turn, you know, $5,000-$12,000 renovations, paint, carpet, and we do that very well, you know, and very quickly. But as the market starts to free up a little bit, and as you'll see, we're seeing much larger renovations, so $50,000, $70,000, $150,000.
I think we have our first $200,000 renovation, $200,000 renovation. And so we're capable of handling all that, but it's really, it gets. When you start doing that at volume, it can really add to the bottom line. And like I said, we were built to do that anyway, and it makes everyone better on that end. So, but like I said, we'll continue to see that grow.
Right. And, could you remind us if Renovate is in all of your markets today, or is that still kind of actively expanding?
I think, you know, and so, it's in most. I think we've done. I heard last week, or I saw last week, I think we've now done. We have had a Renovate customer in almost every one of our markets. There might be one or two we haven't, but we're getting a really good footprint across the board. And that's, that's what really what's also been nice about, you know, with every adversity, there's always some positive.
Mm-hmm.
Because people, just like, you know, we're not buying as many homes, we can focus on growing out some of these other service lines. They're not buying as many homes, and so we can develop what they need together, and you know, from smaller to large. The other thing that we're releasing this week is what we call Reno Captain. That's something that our customers can come into, and they can see really up-to-the-minute reporting of where their home is in the process. It helps us internally, it helps us from a cost perspective. They can actually go out there and see what we charge and bid it out.
And so it's giving the customer more control on the renovation side and more insight to what's happening in the project. And so we've tested it, and so I'm excited about that, to add even more technology to our renovation team. Because renovations is as much about logistics as it is about swinging hammers.
Mm-hmm.
That's one of the key factors. So the more we can accelerate and get more powerful tools out there in the field, they're gonna be... I'm really excited about Reno Captain.
Okay. And we can open it up for audience questions. If anybody has one, you can raise your hand. Last one on Renovate. You know, you're focusing on the B2B side right now. Any thoughts on doing Renovate on the B2C side?
We've talked about that a lot. So right now we're focused on the B2B, getting the logistics and where we need to be, but we see a really big opportunity. As more people are locked into the equity of their current home-
Mm-hmm
... and more people are gonna be adding and upgrading and different things, our renovation teams are there on the ground, can really help that. We're, you know, phase one is focused on the B2B side, as we continue to grow that, but we are definitely will be looking at, I don't have a time frame, but B2C. There's an awesome opportunity there.
Okay. And does that require additional investments, or is what you have already enough?
Depends on how we look at that-
Mm-hmm
... as we grow. We have, for what we have now, from the investment side, our team filled. They can handle some more volume now, but that's always something what's nice about renovation: you can grow it with the volume that comes in as well-
Mm
... different than some of the other things. So that's, so we'll be ready for the volume there.
Okay. Any questions?
As you go to the B2C model, or when you look at that, would you consider, would you consider going with a partner?
In which, which aspect?
Well, take, for example, Frontdoor, right? Which does repairs, not renovations, but they've, they insure appliances and HVAC systems in people's homes, and they've got a lot of contacts already. If you're talking about a customer who may be locked into their home and is looking to do a renovation efficiently, that might be a way to touch, you know, a lot of customers quickly.
Yeah. No, it's a great point, great question. That is something we'd definitely be looking at partners. We're— You know, there's different things as our company evolves. Right now, with our four services that we provide right now, a lot of them are one-time transactions. As we evolve, we want to be with that customer for the next seven to 10 years by rolling out other products. And so when you talk about, like, even the renovation is a great way, you do renovations, but then there's other services that you can do that you can provide homeowners over time, that you can be in front of that homeowner all the time. And so that's— So there's a big opportunity there. Anybody but Sam Steiman ask a question.
As the SFRs have sort of stepped back from buying, it sounds like you're getting some of them now on the renovation side. Is there the opportunity over time to get some of those renovation customers to also tap into Direct+ when the market recovers?
1000%. Yeah, and that, that's where... Again, the one thing from our top of funnel, and without to get too weedy here, we've now, for the first time, about a year ago when we launched the service lines that we did, allowing the SFR groups that you're talking about access to our top of funnel. So when we get a seller that comes to us, what the seller doesn't see is that we're shopping it to multiple cash offer buyers besides us, but the what we call Direct+ buyers. If somebody can pay more for us, more than us, great. We'll sell it to them, we'll make a service fee. And so that will continue to evolve over time as well.
And what's good, and that's the point I was making with some of those players, is that not just the sourcing of the home, but then, they'll need renovation done, and we can normally do that more efficiently. So, the Direct+ side and then the renovation side, which ties in great, we can deliver a great product to them.
Any other questions?... Okay, so let's touch on your liquidity position real quick. How do you feel about your liquidity position? As you scale up, I mean, like, how comfortable or confident are you in growing your access to liquidity?
Yeah, I mean, so we've been, again, back to discipline and look at our liquidity position, and you know, we built the company to the liquidity position we're in right now, and as we go forward. You know, but we're always gonna look at other ways to, you know, right opportunities to put more liquidity into the company. But for right now, as we and that's one of the things we've talked about in as we look at 2024 and 2025 of our cash position, to make sure that we get profit. We control our destiny on that end of it, and then look for other opportunities as well.
Okay. All right, we have 1 minute and 30 seconds left, so last question: So looking out 3-5 years, does Offerpad look different than it is today, and perhaps versus some of your competitors? And are there any key financial milestones that you hope to achieve in that time frame?
Yeah. So I think, I think where it's gonna look different is you're going, you're going to see it just be more balanced in, in, in the, the type of services that we have. Like I mentioned, you know, what we'd like to see is, you know, 25% in each one of it from coming from our renovation business, our cash offer business, our Direct+ business, and our partner business, and that's really what we're just to balance it on that end of it. The cash offer is the foundation to open up all the opportunities for everything else. And, you know, I've said this several times, but, you know, I never founded Offerpad to personally own the most homes in America. That's not what I wanted to do.
I wanted to completely change the way that selling and buying of a home happens.
Mm-hmm.
And so as you go there, and you can get more partners to come in, you know, so it's not always Offerpad buying the homes. So you're gonna see that, just more of a diversified portfolio overall in our product mix overall, in the next sooner than later.
Okay. And generating free cash flow?
What's that?
Generating free cash flow.
Soon as possible.
Okay.
Yes.
All right. All right, with that, we'll wrap up. Thank you.
Thank you very much.