We're really excited to have Paychex back at the conference. John Gibson, President CEO, is here with us. The rest of the team, Bob, is here as well. Thank you all for joining. I've respected and watched John in action for quite a while. Back on the services side, I know you've done a lot on the international front. We've talked about PEO and the acquisitions that you've done there. I'm excited to talk to you about the Paycor acquisition. We'll go through the questions that we've gathered from the investor audience. If there's any questions at the time at the end, I'm happy to take them. Let's get right to it, if you don't mind, John.
Sure. Absolutely. Thanks for having me.
Thanks again for being here. I have to start with a macro question. Paychex has got an amazing view of the economy from an employment standpoint. Give us a state of the union on what you see across your SME base.
Yeah. The state of the small business labor market is relatively healthy and stable. We've really not seen any signs of recessionary signs. It was interesting. I was just looking today - n umber of employee ads are higher than the terms. Good punch-in, punch-out data on a daily basis. You look at our index, which is kind of the parameter that we kind of use. In April, that actually ticked up. We actually saw employment acceleration in the under 50 market, which probably surprised a lot of people. I think when I look at the market overall, and I've talked about this a lot, when we came out of the election, there was a lot of optimism. When we looked at the data, we didn't see people acting on that optimism. We weren't seeing acceleration that one would have expected.
When we get through liberation and all the talk of the tariffs, we did not see the deceleration as well. We are not seeing it either in the hard empirical data that we monitor on today. We pay one in eleven private sector workers in the U.S., have one of the largest HR outsourcing businesses. We are also not seeing it in our engagement with our clients in terms of our clients engaging and trying to think about either downsizings or retrenchments. I think some of that has to do with tension. We talked about it. Small businesses are highly resilient. When you look at what they went through during the pandemic, where a lot of them let go of employees and then struggled to get quality employees back. When we tend to talk to our clients, they are all about, how do I retain these employees? Because we know how difficult it is. I think even in a shallow economic downturn, I think small businesses are going to have a more stable employment than I think we've traditionally seen because of that concern.
Yeah.
No, again, no signs of recession at all.
No, which is great. You have a great view on it. I appreciate that comment you just had there, John, on SMB, because it has that stigma, I think. I think the resiliency is probably underappreciated. I think we've learned a lot since COVID. I would think you would agree with me on that. You've been CEO now for what, two and a half years or so? I'm curious, just from a priority standpoint, given all the learnings we've had and what you just went through, has that changed your priorities at all? I'm curious if you've reordered them in any way.
First of all, you said two and a half years, and it seems longer than that.
Yeah.
It must be CEO years are like dog years, I guess. Everyone is like seven. The fact of the matter is, as you know, I've been part of the senior executive team for well over a decade and have been very actively involved in our strategy and kind of how we've repositioned the company from, as you know, a kind of traditional services, service bureau type of company to really a tech-enabled company, which has really bolstered our advisory services. I was part of that strategic move with the company. The company has only had four CEOs in its 54-year history, and three of us sit on the board. Consistency, steady growth, steady margin expansion is kind of the Paychex way.
The hallmark.
Yeah, it's the hallmark. I don't intend to change that anytime soon. It seems to be working.
Yeah. I mean, like you said, three of the CEOs sitting on the board. I mean, even with Mr. Golisano and the team, I think it's stuck with what's worked. And I've always respected that. Just bringing it up, you mentioned service and how the company's evolved and having tracked it for over a couple of decades. It actually has quite changed a bunch. As an outsource provider of HR tech, you're competing against other service providers. You're also competing against software players. Some of them are going to be here at the conference, John.
Sure.
Can you tell us, as you see it on the ground competitively, has that changed at all, whether it's against your traditional players, maybe more on the in-house side? I know SMB is a little bit difficult with software, but there's a lot of do-it-yourself players that are out there that are attacking at it from different angles, including some of the payment companies that we cover. What do you see? How do you evaluate the landscape?
Yeah. Look, I think there's a lot of ways to attack a very large market. And what customers want and what different segments want differs by not only the segment, but by the owner and what they're looking to do with their business. It also differs from their lifecycle. You mentioned do-it-yourself. We have SurePayroll, do-it-yourself, digital-enabled software. When you look at it, what we've really tried to put together is the most comprehensive, flexible, and innovative set of HCM solutions available in the marketplace so that regardless of whether or not someone's starting up, and we can talk about small business startups, and there's this entrepreneurial spirit, there's more businesses starting today than there were 20 years ago, all the way now to the largest. We're really excited about the Paycor acquisition because it extends us further up market.
We estimate now with the extension of about our $10 billion TAM with Paycor, we've got about a $100 billion TAM. You lay on top of that our advisory services. That's been an area that we've made a lot of progress and investment, made some acquisitions to extend our capabilities. What we're finding clients of all sizes are wanting is not just the technology to enable their efficiency and enable their engagement with their employees, but HR professionals, owners of businesses, CEOs are taxed today. The complexities of the employee-employer relationship are as difficult as I've ever seen them in my entire career. Navigating that, you can automate the task, but you can't automate the strategy. How am I going to deal with this engagement issue that I'm having with finding qualified employees? That's where our advisory services comes in.
Now you layer world-class technology built for any type of situation. Then you layer on top of that the ability to advisories. Now you throw on top of that our massive data set and now the capabilities of AI. Now we can actually present solutions to our HR advisors to proactively reach out to the client, talk to them about retention or engagement strategy. My view is from an industry perspective, as you said, I've been in a long time. I've seen the point solutions. I've seen the one massive ERP. I've seen open systems, closed systems, do-it-yourself, total outsource, global outsource. I've seen them all. EORs come in, went out, came back. They're back again.
Yep, back again.
I've seen the whole evolution of trying to manage employees in a global scale. It has only gotten more difficult, more complex, and the technologies that can get applied to it have never been greater. I'm extremely bullish on the industry. I'm extremely bullish on where we're positioned. Like I said, I think we now have one of the most comprehensive. There may be somebody who would debate me on that. I do believe now we have one of the most comprehensive sets of products and solutions for any company of any size.
One argument you can make if we're doing that debate would be retention and thinking about retention. I think having followed the name so long, it feels like we've been at an elevated level of retention for quite some time. You just talked about the advisory piece, the data, the AI, and everything else. What would you attribute this higher level of retention to? Is there a rank order in your mind for that, John?
It is interesting. You would say our industry is more competitive than ever. You would say there are all these startups. There are all these tech startups, all these people eating away. We have the best retention we have had in the company's 50-some-year history. Why is that? It is fundamentally value. It is value-based. The fact of the matter is what I said before. Because of the breadth of our products and services, we can flex with the client as their needs change. We start off with a startup company, and they continue to grow. We have products and services to do that. They want to expand their reach to other states, other geographies. We can help them do that. I really think what customers, at the end of the day, what they realize is they come back, they have got a great technology platform at Paychex, solid foundation.
They've got great support on that technology, being able to maximize utilization of it, how they're using it. Their employees get taken care of very well, which is important. I think we offer these advisory and ancillary products and services that make them very sticky. I think it fundamentally boils down to once we get a client into our ecosystem, they stick, they stay, and they buy more. That's our growth engine. It has been for 54 years.
Yeah. So let's then dig into Paycor, the thesis on buying Paycor now, given how well, like you said, everything is going. You did mention you're expanding the TAM to $100 billion. I appreciate that. What does Paycor bring that you couldn't develop or go after on your own?
I think we could have gone after anything on our own. We have a great balance sheet. We have a lot of ability to deploy capital, but you always have to make that build versus buy decision. We thought it was a great opportunity to pick up a great asset in the industry that was going to give us a lot more capability further up market than we've traditionally played. That was an area we were investing in. That's very typical to what we do. Whether you go back, and we were working on our technology solution, our digital solution on the low end about 14, 15 years ago, an asset came to the market, SurePayroll. We acquired that asset, leveraged that asset. Today, continue to operate that brand. We had our own PEO or HR outsourcing division.
It was predominantly concentrated in a few geographic states. When I came in, that was an area we really wanted to expand and grow. We were growing it organically, as you recall, at a very good clip, double digits rates. When I looked out and said, how long is it going to take us to get a national footprint? Lo and behold, the largest privately held PEO came available at a relationship with Mark Perlberg, who is a great gentleman who just passed away, greatly missed from the industry perspective. We had a great relationship, and they were ready to transact. Instantaneously, we became a national HR outsourcing provider with that acquisition. It was a timing opportunity. An area we were already strategically wanting to go, and acquisitions allowed us to accelerate that. The Paycor acquisition is a great acquisition.
We already had nice size in the up market. This really strengthens our capability up market. It also extends our product suite in ways that we were looking at. They have some great things in more complex talent management and workforce management, particularly very complex timekeeping with larger companies that now we can take into our ecosystem. There is a tremendous cross-sell opportunity for us to take all of our products, all of our advisory products, all of our other products, and move it into their ecosystem. You add to that, they had a strong relationship with the broker channel. We have a stronger relationship with the CPA channel and banks. We had a broker channel program, not as large as theirs. Now we got new go-to-market capabilities and referring partners. So very excited, we completed the deal.
A week later, they had their Paycor Connect+ conference, which was for all their top customers and their broker channel. We went down there. We had not even started cross-selling at that point in time because we were still in the process of training the sales organizations. We had the conference, and two days later, we had our first PEO sale. I know from being there and talking to the inside sales team, they're clamoring for the ability to have the advisory services. What they're hearing from their clients is that they've got the technology support that they need, but the HR organizations are extremely stretched. They are looking for additional support. That is where our managed services, that is where our HR outsourcing solutions go in.
They're real excited about being able to, they had actually created some partnerships with some other firms to be able to meet that need. Now we're going to be able to really come in and I think really offer a full suite of services to their customers. You increase your TAM, $10 billion. We probably sped up our roadmap by five to seven years of what it would have taken us to get there. You establish yourself a new go-to-market partnership network that extends your referral network. You have tremendous cross-sell opportunities, both their products and our client base and our products and their client base. We just think it's, like I said, we're going to be better together. I believe that.
Yeah. No, so you went through the complementary distribution and the cross-sell opportunity there, John. Just thinking about, for those maybe less familiar, you'll have platform decisions to make and some branding decisions to make. Of course, this integration is done. You've done a good job, of course, with Oasis. And you mentioned SurePayroll back in the day. How risky is this acquisition in your mind, whether it be from a cultural, platforming, technology execution standpoint?
I'll take the first one you mentioned, cultural, which is the hardest one to always judge. The other things, we know this business. We're in this business. We've been in this business. We had a scaled-up market business. So we knew the business. It's not like we couldn't run it on our own. What I would tell you is one of the key things when we went through the process was really talking about the culture and the people. That has really exceeded my expectations at this point in time. We've actually added two members of their executive team. Adam Ante, who was their CFO, is going to be our business unit president. He's going to be running our large enterprise, which we branded Paycor in the up market.
That's how we're going to go to market in the up market is we're actually, much like we did with Oasis, we reverse engineered our PEO into the Oasis brand. We'll do that on the Paychex side, on the enterprise side of the marketplace. They had a lower-end market business as well. We'll move that into our ecosystem. That's very similar to what we've done with other acquisitions. Very happy we've got Adam on the team. He's on the executive committee now. We bring that business unit. They had a great guy in product. Our product person was transitioning out from a retirement perspective. Ryan Bergstrom is going to be our head of product for all of Paychex. He's working on the integration of the roadmap.
Like I said, now when I look at the technology roadmap and I look at the investment, because there are no synergies in technology, although we have exceeded the initial numbers that we provided to the street and are very excited about the cost synergies, we are really trying to figure out how do we drive further innovation. They have a capability, their Paycor embedded, which is another exciting thing for us. It is one of the areas we were looking to start investing in, which really gives us then the capabilities to go to other partners and allow them to embed our HCM ecosystem into their technology platforms to create a seamless customer experience on the other end. I am excited about that. They had just been starting to launch that.
That's something that we're going to continue to look at how we can develop and expand as well.
Yeah. I think when you guys, you took some of the guidance up and you're honoring, of course, Paychex's hallmark with everything you've done with margin and accretion and protecting margin, et cetera. Of course, it'll accelerate growth. I'm curious, just bringing it back to the bigger picture, John, and thinking about margins. There's so much going on in tech right now. I'm sure we'll talk about AI. With this best-in-class margin, is there room for you to potentially sacrifice margin and accelerate growth? It doesn't look like you're doing that here with Paycor. Is that ever a consideration? Is there stuff that's out there and available for you that you could invest in, but you're choosing not to, to respect the hallmark? Again, with all this tech available, maybe there is a chance to accelerate growth.
How do you balance that sitting in your seat?
I'm always surprised at why people say you have to balance two things. Why can't you have both?
Okay.
I mean, we're a consistent high rule of 40. Isn't that what all technology companies strive for?
Yeah.
We've been at it for 54 years.
The prosecute guy was always harder for me to absorb that. Now I appreciate rule of 40 is important. Yeah, you guys have been way above that.
I'm just right to say way above that for decades. I guess our point is I don't think we've ever felt that those two things are mutually exclusive, that you shouldn't strive and push yourself both to position yourself in markets where you can grow at an acceptable rate and where you can grow profitably. No question. Sometimes it's very struggling when you're in irrational markets where people will spend more on a Google word to get a customer. You have a higher cost of acquisition than I know you'll ever get in the lifetime value of that customer. Because I've been doing it for 50 years. I know how long they'll stick. I know how long they'll be sold. I know how long they're going to go out of business in the small in the market.
I'm going to pay a salesperson whatever I have to do to get them away from the other provider. The good thing is right now in our industry; there's this thing that we're getting more balance. Now there's a little more balance in growth and profitability. I think we're very well positioned there. We believe that we can continue to grow the company high single digits and continue to expand margins for the foreseeable future because we've been doing it for decades. We're not going to give up and force ourselves into choice. I never feel constrained because I get asked this question a lot from investors. I've never felt constrained in the boardroom or anywhere else about investing in the business.
Our filter, if you're going to sit in my seat, my filter is we're going to invest for a return on investment. It's an interesting thing. We're not spenders. We're investors. My team's heard me say that before. It's really easy to be a spender. I have a lot of people come in the boardroom and pitch an idea to me, and we're going to spend money. That doesn't mean you're going to make money. I think we always have a return on investment mindset in what we do. That's just in our DNA.
Yeah. Bob's always reminded us of that. Paychex definitely is always very disciplined on that and respect the company for it. Just to pull forward here, let's talk about the tech stack. It is a tech conference, John, and thinking about modernization and automation and AI and all this stuff. Maybe AI we can talk about separately. Just the tech stack itself, now that you're looking at Paycor and understanding maybe where you are, where are you in the modernization journey?
I do not think we have ever been better positioned than we are today from that perspective. I would go back to what I said. I have been here over a decade, and this has been an area of transformation for us. We have been investing a lot in technology. Sometimes I do not think we get all the credit that we should get. We have both built it, we have both acquired it, and we have integrated it. I believe when you look at now with the addition of Paycor, it is what I said. We have the full spectrum of capabilities across the entire HCM, regardless of size, regardless of need. We have done that in a manner that I think creates an open network. I am really excited about the speed.
We're talking in quarters, like in one quarter, we're going to be able to integrate our ancillary products in the Paycor system. In the course of six months, we're going to be able to do the reverse on theirs. That's how open their system was. That's how open our system is today. I think we have a tremendous technology platform. The other thing that I think that goes unrecognized is we do not talk a lot about it, and it's not sexy. We've invested a ton in the back-office operations. When we looked at synergies, particularly, what I find in a lot of the tech companies in our space is everything is on the UX side. Everything is on that feature side.
We have not only kept up with that, but we have also been investing in all of the back-office money movement capabilities, the ability of all the tax. I mean, we transact and move a trillion dollars of money every year around our economic system. Last year was over a trillion dollars between all of our businesses that we have. All of the investment we have made there is why you see a lot of the margin expansion that we have, the efficiencies. I would tell you that when we went through some of the disclosures post-close and began to show the technology team at Paycor what we were doing on a back-office efficiency perspective and the way we were doing banking and the way we were doing payments and the way we were doing all the other things, they were pretty amazed.
The other thing we do not get credit for is a huge investment that we made over the last 10 years to totally re-architect the back end of our system and parts of our front end of the system to enable our clients' employees to become customers digitally. The other thing about the way the world was is we would go to a customer and a client, and they would have 10 employees, and all those employees were tied to that. We could not bill an employee per se. We could deduct something. We really saw this opportunity to create this marketplace because a lot of our small, medium-sized businesses, they cannot afford to put the benefit suites together that large companies can. We certainly can. We have the 30th largest insurance agency. We have some of the best relationships with the carriers.
We had no mechanism to have that employee buy from us and then for us to have a relationship with that employee from a commerce perspective. We started working on that. It took a lot of work. A little bit, we chipped a thing. That was when we chipped that a little bit at a time. Last July, we introduced the Paychex Perks product. It is a marketplace for our employees. Every time they come in into a role or they have a life event, we use AI to figure out. They change a deduction. We know they probably had a baby. Now there are all kinds of things like life insurance and other things we can present to them. It is done in an open enrollment form.
The employers are able to now go to their employees and say, "I'm offering you these benefits, but it's costing them nothing," because we deduct and take the payments directly from the employee. We launched that in a beta in July. I think we started to roll it out in phases to our roughly 13 million employees of our customers. We have over 180,000 customers today buying something in our marketplace. That was just with the first 20 products. We have about 100 different products that we want to test and learn and figure out where the right things are. Where are we? We have more capability up market. We are more integrated. We are more open. We have more access to new markets and new customers than we have ever had in the 54-year history of the company. I like where we are from a technology perspective.
It has to help explain the retention back to the earlier conversation. All of the back-office work that you've described, I mean, it has to be showing up with some of your NPS scores and everything else.
Yes.
Let's do, we got 10 minutes left. I just want to make sure we hit these last few questions. I do want to hit PEO, but let's just stay with tech and AI. I think Andrew went to HR Tech last year, and I think the conclusion was that you guys have put out a lot on the AI front, Flex Engine, AI Insights, and FlexPerks, you mentioned. What do you see? I mean, now that you've been out there a little bit in the marketplace, are you doubling down in certain areas? Is there more to do? Talk about what you're sort of measuring here to say, "Hey, we could do more or not."
Yeah, I think when you look, I think from the tech perspective, we have the full portfolio. Now you got to keep up. I'm not sure you ever have everything you want or need because the world's always evolving. Certainly, you mentioned AI. AI is an area that we've been focused on. I always remember this. We won a HR Tech Award for the best use of AI in a product or Retention Insights. Now, this was three months before ChatGPT was relaunched. I can remember a lot of people going like, "Well, what's this AI thing? I don't understand it." Four months later, and even our board was a little, "Okay, that's kind of neat, whatever it is." Six months later, they're going like, "How do we double down on investing in this?" We have a unique opportunity at Paychex.
We pay 1 in 11 U.S. private sector workers. Because of the nature of the small, mid-sized businesses, a lot of people work for multiple companies. In any given year, about 26 million employees pass through our system. We have a comprehensive data set on this. Now we have AI on top of that. You talk about retention. The fact of the matter is a lot of the back-office uses of AI is in our customer service and in our retention. Intelligent pricing, being able to, we basically record, transcribe all of our conversations with clients. We have an AI tool that immediately sends a red flag to the service provider if we are seeing flag words or we are seeing issues. All of those things we have used AI for. As you mentioned, we start embedding that into our products.
I think that's a great opportunity. Where we are now is beginning to really look at, we just announced the compensation capability through a partnership. Now a client, when they onboard or are hiring an employee, can look at a compensation database. For small, if you're a big company, you're going like, "Yeah, well, so what? We have a comp survey." If you're a small business owner, you can't figure out how much is a chef making in Rochester, New York, unless you talked about it. We know how much a chef's making. We know if it's going up. We know if it's going down in a given market. We're zoning in on that. We're now then arming our HR generalists because now we have a bigger advisory team.
We're arming HR professionals with data analytics insights that they now can have more strategic conversations with our customers with. That gets back to the value piece. I believe this. I believe this. AI is not worth anything if you do not have a lot of data. It is very expensive to train these models. I believe that in this world of AI, large providers with large data, who I would count us as one of those, are going to have a competitive advantage over anyone else. We're going to be able to operate more efficiently. We're going to be able to make better decisions. I know I do by looking at the data. Every morning, I can get up and I can tell you how many employees were added in our system real time, how many terminations were there.
Tell me how many people punched in yesterday, how many punched in a year ago yesterday. Those are insights that are very helpful for us in leading our business. When you put that in the product and you package that data and that insights and put it in the customer's hands, no small provider or no point solutions provider is going to have the wealth of that data. The problem is all that data has been floating around our system. I call it, it's an exhaust of Paychex. That's what it is. We probably talk to close to 5 million small businesses every year. As many as we add, we have proposals, we have close rates, we have prospects.
We gather a lot of information, but there was no way to really tap into it and then really to get it down to the fact that I, as CEO, can make a decision on it. AI is allowing us to do that. I think the power, not only can we use it to power our business, but when you turn it and begin to say, "I can help a client power their business by giving them insights about what they could be doing to retain their employees at their restaurant. What could they be doing to attract employees at their restaurants? What could they be doing in adjusting their benefits portfolio to be more competitive?" I think that that's going to be something that others aren't going to be able to compete against.
Yeah. No question.
Sorry, I got a little side.
No, no, no. It's good. I'm just excited. One more follow-up, and then we'll move on. Just on the data side, you have so much of it, John. You just went through that. That's very, very clear. And I underappreciated some of the touch points. I've been asking the other companies this, right? Is it the next step for Paychex? Is it more growth-oriented or cost efficiency? You mentioned productivity a little bit, but do you see a balance of where there's more potential for Paychex?
See, I do not understand why people always say you can only either got to be a growth company or a profitable company. How about both? My point is with the team is very simple. We are going to grow revenue with AI products. We are going to monetize the data. We are already doing that.
Yup.
That is going to be a multi-$100 million business in a few years. I just know it is just by the early signs on it. We are going to use that insight, and we are going to use AI to drive cost out of the business. Now, when I say that, we are really focused on the task side of our business and wanting to take and talk about reinvestment. I am wanting to reinvest that in customer success, in advisory communications.
When I'm having a, when we're having a conversation with one of our clients, I want it to be about something meaningful that's going to help them be more successful as a business, not taking a number or taking an address change form, if that makes sense. Their employee doesn't want it. They don't want it. It's wasted energy. That's where we're really applying it. When you're in a huge transaction business like ours, if you can automate the transactions, the efficiency is going to come.
Fair. Fair. No, that's good. I'll remember to ask more about balance next time. All fair points. No, learning a lot. Thank you for that. I have to ask on PEO, not to skip around, but the one learning so far in a pretty extended results season, the last few seasons, Paychex has been outperforming the PEO group and I'd say uneven results, softer results, whatever you want to call it within the public PEOs. What's driving that? Is there something that's changed internally that's driving that outperformance?
I think one of the things, the two things I would say over the decade kind of work that we were doing that we focused the company strategically on was one is to make the company a technology company. I think we already talked about that. The second was to really focus the company with HR at the center. I think if you would have went back a decade, people would have said we're a payroll company. Maybe some people still do. We do not consider ourselves a payroll company. We are a human capital management company really focused on helping the employee-employer relationship improve. That is kind of where we are. That is usually HR. We have been focused on that. We think the PEO is a great opportunity to do that. The only thing we like about the PEO model is it brings scale.
Again, it allows small and mid-sized businesses to punch above their weight in the way that we approach procurement of benefits and gives them access to better benefits than they would otherwise be available in the market today. Certainly, we saw that many years ago. Healthcare is a major challenge. I mean, you step back and just say, what's on the minds of small, mid-sized businesses? It's pretty consistent. In fact, NFIB's report was out again today. Tracked and find qualified people. It's hard. It's tough. Second, getting access to affordable benefit packages that helps me do one. It is. Third is getting access to affordable access to growth capital. It's a big problem. It's not just the cost of capital.
If I get worried about the interest rates, I've talked to people at the Fed and everywhere else, regional banking partners that we have. It's hard for small business owners, even if they have a great return on investment, to access the capital they need to be able to do that. As you know, we've got involved some businesses from that. I just think as you step back at it, we're very focused on solving those problems at the center of what we do. The PEO is a means for us to be able to do that. As you said, we've been growing. We're excited employees faster than our competitors.
No, it's been nice to see, I think, with the balance, back to balance and having the Florida piece. We come back to this, right? Thinking about Oasis and the execution on that. I know it's been some time, but the result has been good. We will see if it continues. We have 45 seconds left, John. Any sort of closing comments, things you want to underline? We covered a lot, and thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Yeah, no, I just want to thank you for having us here and giving us a chance to tell the Paychex story. It's an amazing story. Fifty-four years ago, $3,000 and a small little company in Rochester, New York. Today we're a leading technology company in human capital management, paying 1 in 11 private sector workers, presence in Europe. Tremendous return, total shareholder returns when you look at our dividend, we just increased it 10%. You're going to get a good stock appreciation at the same time. You have a management team that is committed to a long-standing tradition. Let's grow and grow profitably. I think that's kind of our story.
Great. We'll leave it at that. That's perfect. Thank you, John.
Thanks.