Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Perma-Fix Second Quarter 2022 Conference Call. At this time, all participants have been placed on a listen-only mode, and the floor will be open for questions and comments after the presentation. It is now my pleasure to turn the floor over to your host, David Waldman, Investor Relations. Sir, the floor is yours.
Thank you. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to Perma-Fix Environmental Services Second Quarter 2022 Conference Call. On the call with us this morning are Mark Duff, President and CEO, Dr. Lou Centofanti, Executive Vice President of Strategic Initiatives, and Ben Naccarato, Chief Financial Officer. The company issued a press release this morning containing second quarter 2022 financial results, which is also posted on the company's website. If you have any questions after the call or would like any additional information about the company, please contact Crescendo Communications at 212-671-1020. I'd also like to remind everyone that certain statements contained within this conference call may be deemed forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995 and includes certain non-GAAP financial measures.
All statements on this conference call, other than a statement of historical fact, are forward-looking statements that are subject to known and unknown risks, uncertainties and other factors which could cause actual results and performance of the company to differ materially from such statements. These risks and uncertainties are detailed in the company's filings with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, as well as this morning's press release. The company makes no commitment to disclose any revisions to forward-looking statements or any facts, events or circumstances after the date hereof that bear upon forward-looking statements. In addition, today's discussion will include references to non-GAAP measures. Perma-Fix believes that such information provides an additional measurement and consistent historical comparison of its performance. A reconciliation of the non-GAAP measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures is available in today's news release on our website.
I'd now like to turn the call over to Mark Duff. Please go ahead, Mark.
All right. Thanks, Dave, and good morning. I believe we are finally starting to realize improvements in our performance as evidenced by our results this quarter. I can't understate enough the challenges we've had to overcome. Government agencies, including DOE and DoD and EPA, have been quite lethargic in distribution of task orders under our existing IDIQ contract, and have been slow in the procurement process, still due to the impacts of the pandemic. On July twenty-fifth of this year, just a few weeks ago, the GAO released a report with recommendations for the Department of Energy, Office of Environmental Management, and the NNSA, the National Nuclear Security Administration, to improve their management of excess carryover balances.
At the end of 2021, FY 2021, GAO found that EM carried over around $3.2 billion, equivalent to around 42% of their funds appropriated in fiscal year 2021. NNSA carried over about $11 billion, equivalent to 62% of its appropriated funds. These statistics underscore the fact that the government has not been moving funds into projects as planned, which directly results in delays in field projects and specifically waste disposition activities. Perma-Fix is well positioned to remain competitive when these task orders begin to make it through the procurement cycle, through our existing portfolio of IDIQs, with DOE as well as DoD and other federal agencies.
Despite these challenges, I'm pleased to report we achieved a 20.5% increase in revenue to $19.5 million for the second quarter of 2022 versus $16.1 million for the same period last year. Importantly, we saw growth in each of our segments both sequentially and year-over-year. In addition to our revenue growth, gross profit nearly tripled and gross margins increased from 6% to 15%. Turning first to our services segment, we were able to reach full operational status on several projects that have been delayed due to the impact of the pandemic. In March of 2022, we began to see increases in activity as the pandemic impacts began to subside, which continued into the second quarter.
As a result, revenue increased approximately 31% to $11.1 million in the second quarter of 2022 versus the same period last year. We saw a similar increase in sequential growth of 31% compared to the first quarter of 2022. We are hopeful the federal government will be awarding additional projects in the third and fourth quarters. However, we are realistic that the DOE and DoD have been slow to award new projects. While we remain well positioned and competitive, there is a risk the government could continue to carry over large projects in their budgets, which could potentially have an impact on firms like Perma-Fix.
Nevertheless, our ability to provide innovative solutions for both waste management and radiological contamination, we've been fortunate to be able to secure formal teaming arrangements with large, tier one prime firms, on large bids, strategic bids within the DOE market. Assuming we're successful, on some of these, some of these projects are quite material to our business, contributing meaningful recurring revenues and cash flow, over multi-year contracts. We're also seeing increased activity on the commercial and international fronts. Last month, we were awarded a four-year framework contract worth up to GBP 41 million across three suppliers for the treatment and conditioning of radioactive waste in the U.K. This award represents an expanding market in Europe for our services and defines a lack of treatment availability, and options, to stabilize radioactive waste for long-term storage and disposal.
Turning to our treatment segment, revenue increased by roughly 9% for the second quarter of 2022 as compared to the same period last year, primarily due to higher volume waste. Sequentially, our treatment segment revenue increased 12% over the first quarter of 2022. In addition, we're seeing improvements in our waste receipts, which increased 54%. We had a 54% increase in our waste receipts through the quarter. Given how we recognize revenue on percentage of completion basis, this is a good leading indicator for the second half of the year. In addition, treatment backlog increased to $7.2 million compared to just $6.1 million at the end of the first quarter of 2022.
We continue to expand our waste treatment offering to the commercial sector and utility markets, which has broadened our market base and resulted in several new shipments that will likely be sustainable for several years. As an example, our new vacuum thermal desorption system, or VTD for short, offers us a treatment solution for problematic waste streams while providing increased efficiency and productivity as well. Specifically, this technology enables us to extract organic contaminants from soil-like materials, sludges, and non-debris mixed waste streams. We're realizing really strong interest in this system with receipts from several new clients, including both government and commercial sectors, along with the oil and gas industry.
As I mentioned in our last call, the recent omnibus FY 2022 federal spending bill included $7 million in additional funds specifically allocated for the Test Bed Initiative, also referred to as the TBI. Also in that funding bill is referred to as the Low-Level Waste Off-Site Disposal program, which is called the LWOD. This funding line item underscores the continued visibility and recognition within the U.S. Congress for commercial grouting to supplement the current Direct-Feed Low-Activity Waste program, or what we refer to as DFLAW, while providing significant cost and schedule reductions to support the Hanford mission. The second phase of the TBI project, which includes extraction, shipment, and transportation of 2,000 gallons of waste to our Perma-Fix Northwest facility located in Richland, Washington, continues to move forward with the NRC approval of DOE's Waste Incidental to Reprocessing Report.
Basically, the NRC approved of the WIR document that was the next step of the program. This opens the door for DOE to submit the RD&D permit, and ship the 2,000 gallons hopefully before the end of this year, assuming they submit the report soon. Also, we've seen continued support by Congress and local stakeholders associated with the grouting technology as a low-cost and safe supplemental program to the ongoing DFLAW facility. In fact, just last week, the U.S. GAO published a report in which they stated grouting of Hanford tank waste could reduce certain risk by treating supplemental low-activity waste, defined as what we refer to as LAW, which makes up over 90% of the overall tank inventory at Hanford.
Even with the operation of the new DFLAW facility, which is currently scheduled to begin in December of 2023, this facility would only address about 60% of the entire LAW inventory when it's running at full capacity. That leaves nearly 20 million gallons remaining to be addressed within the tank farms at Hanford without a treatment alternative defined for it. As stated by the GAO in this report, the near-term reduction of the tank waste inventory through grouting could accelerate tank closures and save the government tens of billions of dollars while reducing the risk to the environment beginning today.
Perma-Fix maintains these capabilities for grouting in our Perma-Fix Northwest facility, which is already permitted and outfitted to safely and compliantly grout up to 30,000 gallons per month with the ability to expand to well over 1 million gallons annually while dramatically reducing costs compared to the alternative vitrification process. In terms of hiring and stability of our workforce, we've recently begun to realize impacts from the availability of trained technicians and labor that have been common during these unusual economic times. While we've been successful in minimizing these impacts to date, we do recognize the potential impacts to productivity in both our segments if the job market continues to tighten in the coming months. Turning back to our financials for a moment, despite the turnaround, I am obviously disappointed we didn't deliver a positive EBITDA for Q2.
However, we believe that we're well-positioned to continue our market expansion program. Adjusted EBITDA improved to a loss of $403,000 compared to a loss of $1.7 million dollars in Q2 of 2021, and loss of $1.4 million in Q1 of 2022. As I stated in the past, the federal government has been much slower than commercial sector to resume normal operations. However, these projects have not gone away. We believe we've weathered the worst of the storm for COVID-19, and we expect improved activity from federal government to procure the new task orders in the future. To wrap up, we've witnessed solid year-over-year revenue growth in both our segments, and saw a meaningful improvement in our gross margins.
The federal government has begun announcing new projects that have been on hold, and we expect to benefit from those improved budgets and carryover spending from the last year. We have projects ramping up and are bidding on increasing number of projects in our services segment. Within the treatment segment, both our waste receipts and backlog are improving. All this bodes well for a second half of the year and our performance goals. At the same time, we continue to invest in our capabilities and facilities. We've built a solid foundation for growth and a highly scalable infrastructure.
As a result, we believe we're in a great position to take advantage of the pent-up demand that's out there, and as we continue to increase revenues, we expect to benefit from the predictable cash flows of our services segment, and high incremental margins within our treatment segment. On that, I'll now turn it over to Ben, who will discuss the financial results in more detail. Ben?
Thanks, Mark. I'll start with revenue. From our continuing operations in the second quarter, as you said, was $19.5 million compared to last year's second quarter of $16.1 million, an increase of $3.4 million or 20.5%. The revenue improvement came from both our operating segments as treatment was up $687,000, primarily based on increased volume, while the service segment increased by $2.6 million, primarily from increased project work on two large contracts that had not started at this time last year. Year-to-date through June thirtieth, our revenue is sitting lower than prior year by about $3.9 million or 9.9%. This drop in the revenue from the services comes from the services segment as revenue was down $4.6 million from last year year-to-date.
Lower revenue in the first quarter due to the delays in the project startup of the two large contracts is the main contributor for this shortfall. Our gross profit for the quarter was $2.9 million compared to $966,000 last year. The improvement in the gross profit of approximately $1.9 million was primarily from increased revenue and project margin in the services segment, while the treatment segment increased modestly from higher revenue. For six months ended June 30, our gross profit is at $4.5 million compared to $3.3 million last year. This increase is entirely from the services segment, where the improvement in the margins on the projects we're doing has more than offset the impact of decreased revenue and the higher fixed costs.
On the G&A side, costs, SG&A costs were $3.7 million compared to $3 million in the second quarter last year. The increase of $687,000 was primarily related to increased payroll, travel, audit fees, and stock compensation. For the six months ended June 30, SG&A was $7.1 million compared to $6.2 million in the prior year. Just like the quarter, the biggest impact of this variance was higher payroll and travel, higher audit fees, higher stock option compensations, and higher outside service costs. Our net loss attributable to common shareholders for the quarter was $1.4 million compared to last year's net income of $3 million.
However, of note, the second quarter of 2021 included a gain on the extinguishment of debt related to the company's PPP loan totaling $5.4 million, which was forgiven in June of 2021. Excluding this gain, the loss in the quarter compared to prior year was reduced or improved by $1 million. Total basic loss per share for the quarter was $0.11 compared to income per share of $0.25 last year. Year-to-date basic loss per share is at $0.21 compared to income per share of $0.16 in 2021. Our Adjusted EBITDA from continuing operations for the quarter, as defined in this morning's press release, compared to a loss of $1.7 million last year. On the year-to-date basis, Adjusted EBITDA stands at $1.8 million compared to $2.2 million in 2021.
Cash on the balance sheet was $163,000 compared to $4.4 million at the end of 2021, reflecting the losses of the year is $367,000. Cash used for investing in continuing operations, which is primarily capital spending, is $733,000. Cash used for financing was $444,000, and that's represented by monthly payments to our term loan of $222,000 and payments to finance-related lease liabilities and other debt of $222,000. With that, operator, I'll turn the call over to questions.
Ladies and gentlemen, the floor is now open for questions. If you have any questions or comments, please press star one on your phone at this time. We ask that while posing your question, you please pick up your handset if listening on speakerphone to provide optimum sound quality. Please hold while we poll for questions. Thank you. Your first question is coming from Howard Brous of Wellington Shields. Sir, please pose your question.
Thank you. First of all, congratulations, Mark, Lou, Ben, one on a better quarter and on a significantly better visibility. On your announcement of earnings, and I'm quoting, quote, "Supported our ability to join teams in larger strategic bids." That's one. Secondly, on page 15 of your deck, you talk about participation in several teaming arrangements for large DOE procurements, including Integrated Tank Disposition Contract, which is a Hanford contract. Can you be a little bit more specific as to the opportunities that you see both in Hanford and other?
Well, thanks for the kind words, Howard. We appreciate your support. ITDC is a $45 billion contract for management of the tank farms at Hanford as well as the startup of DFLAW a few years down the road. That procurement, you know, while it's in procurement space and we're waiting to hear on it, there's obviously a lot of sensitivities to it in regards to our team, which I can't disclose until after the announcement. I can tell you this, the department has been staying with their current schedule and they update it frequently that they'll be making an announcement in late September, early October. There were two bidders. We're one of two bidders.
We basically support our core competencies on the contract and would like to think we at least have a 50/50 chance based on the fact there's only two bidders that we know of. Obviously, that's not an official statement. That again is coming up quickly. Hopefully, by the call on Q3, we will have an announcement on that. The other big bid that we've been supporting is the OSMS DUF6 contract. That's for the operations of the depleted uranium hexafluoride facilities at both Portsmouth, Kentucky, and Portsmouth, Ohio, and Paducah, Kentucky. That's a $3 billion contract. Again, we're on a team for that, providing again similar services. There's a little bit more competition on that.
That won't be announced likely for a year, and those bids just went in a few days ago. We're bidding a number of other ones that are not quite as large. There's no billions involved, but strategic that we're positioning for within DOE. We are starting to see a nice little backlog of task orders come in, task order RFPs come in, from the Corps of Engineers through our facility reduction contracts that I've talked about in the past. Those are finally starting moving. None of those bids have been submitted yet. They've been coming out for several weeks. The due dates keep getting pushed, which gets back to the earlier statements I made in regards to how the procurement process is taking a long time.
We're optimistic, you know, on those big ones, that we'll hopefully get some information here, about some awards, in the next several quarters.
All right. Let's talk about grouting. You had mentioned grouting in your comments, opening comments. Obviously, the GAO report, they talk about grouting. The Senate comments talk about grouting. NRC talks about grouting. The scientists all talk about grouting. We know that grouting is acceptable. Grouting is a savings of anywhere, depending on which comment you read, of $20 billion-$40 billion over the life of it. Talk with me about the opportunities in grouting besides the 2,000 gallons for TSCR and others.
Sure.
Please.
Yeah, Howard. It is very encouraging to see all those agencies you mentioned and a few others that have made comments that have supported it and encouraged DOE, in fact, highly recommended to DOE that they, quote, expeditiously pursue grouting. DOE officials, both at headquarters and at Hanford, have all commented that they're very much in support of the TBI program, that they believe that there's merit in this approach, and we'll say repeatedly that they're moving forward with TBI. Having said that, they are in complete control. They control the documents that have to be developed, which includes the final EIS, the NEPA document, the EA, and the RD&D report or permit.
Those balls are all squarely in DOE's court. If DOE wants to move forward with grouting, they can. They have a strategy of pushing and working hard on a DF-LAW facility, getting it running without distraction. They've been vocal about that. But to answer your question specifically, DOE has the ability to start shipping us for grouting the waste that's generated from the TSCR system, which right now sits at approximately 300,000 gallons. That waste is in the tank. It's low-level waste. It's been declared low-level waste by several entities. We can receive that waste starting tomorrow at 30,000 gallons a month.
DOE's position, which has just recently been published in one of the industry newsletters, that their choice is to accumulate that TSCR waste on a continual basis until they have enough for operation of the DFLAW facility, which is about 1 million gallons. That's their decision on that. They can start shipping to us as soon as they want to. Obviously, the 2,000 gallons will come first, as the next level phase. When DOE decides they wanna do that, they can. Our position has been clear, Howard, and that is we'll continue to make sure DOE and our congressional delegations that are involved here all understand the value of grouting and what it means to the department.
Right now, that decision is squarely in the department's purview to make that decision. You know, the cost savings that we've talked about a lot, which is about 10 times less, the reduced carbon footprint from emissions, and the schedule reduction and the risky environment are all considerations that we're hopeful the DOE will recognize the value in shipping some of that TSCR waste in the near term.
It's my understanding that they're going to accumulate 1 million gallons, but they also have money in this budget to treat the TSCR waste. Is that a correct statement?
Right now, there's $10 million from the 2020 budget and $7 million from the 2022 budget. My understanding from the House Armed Services Committee this past year, well, a few months, a few weeks ago
Right.
Asked DOE if they needed more. There's at least $17 million allocated for low-level waste off-site disposition program or TBI, that's available right now. Yes, one could certainly say there's $17 million available for support for treatment of this TSCR waste, at this time.
That's nothing to do with the 2023 fiscal budget. That's twenty... Okay.
That's already approved.
Let me go one more question. You talked about the EPA opening up, which is the Navajo Nation contract. You were one of the winners. Have you started processing anything on that first contract? And secondly, have you heard anything about an additional potential contract availability?
We've heard nothing about the next contract, but we have received the first task order RFP for the first mine, which took a long time to get through the procurement cycle. There was lots of questions. It went back and forth a bunch of times. That proposal has been submitted, and it does include soil sorting, which is, you know, the technology we've been-
Right.
Been using for quite a while. That will represent the first mine to be reclaimed through that program, and hopefully it will be the beginning of many. We're still waiting to hear the announcement on that. We really had anticipated hearing on that before this call, but we can safely say that we'll hear any day on that first task order, on the award of the first task order.
All right. Thank you. Again, congratulations on the better quarter, and congratulations on the better visibility. That's all I have.
Great.
Thank you.
Thanks, Howard.
Thank you. Our next question is coming from David Wright of Henry Investment Trust. Sir, please pose your question.
Hi, good morning. Has work started on the USS McKee project?
Yes, David, it has. That project started in the beginning of Q1. It went through an extraordinarily long transition phase due to the fact that there was a lot of training requirement required of the workforce that was brand new. This is the first time this type of work has been commercialized at the Norfolk Naval Shipyard. The workforce had to go through a number of different training regimens to do the work. That's all been done. They've been through all the initial characterization and got to full operations in mid-July. It's been running through that three- or four-month transition period and mobilization period.
We got the equipment mobilized and all that kind of thing, and they're off and running, and generating good revenue now, beginning in mid-July.
Okay, that's just very recent. Is it too soon to tell if your original cost estimates and the resultant profitability from that job are gonna hold up, given, I guess, that it's fixed price and given that the cost of everything is up?
It is too early to tell. We do have a number of changes that we're talking to the Navy about, so it's definitely too early to tell how it's performing. It started off really good, and then a few changes occurred. We're just working with the Navy right now to get those changes approved.
Okay. Mark, my other question is kind of a pretty high altitude one. Historically, is the DOE contracting process always this long, or does the length of it fluctuate as administrations change?
It does change with administration. I will say, David, that, DOE has done pretty well on several of the big contracts, you know, particularly, Tank Closure, for example, it was delayed three years because it was protested. Y-12 here in Oak Ridge is going through the same type of delays. Once the RFP gets submitted, they typically do pretty well. There is a lot of longer delays based on those protests and those types of issues than we've seen in recent decades. Where the real bottleneck is coming is on the next level down from the tier one, so the task order contracts. That's the reason why there's such a large carryover from each of the sites, is because the primes are just not doing subcontracts.
It's just directly related to slower procurement, less field work because a lot of people are working from home within the government, and just slower procurement cycles across the board. Not just DOE, DoD as well as EPA, every government agency. You don't hear much about it. That's what's so frustrating is companies like ours, and we keep in touch with all of our competitors, we're all going through the same thing. We're waiting for subcontracts to come out, you know, and knowing that these budgets are just piling up, and progress in the field is not happening. There's not much we can do besides wait.
Okay. Well, I appreciate the summary on that. Congratulations on your continued progress, and thank you for taking my questions.
All right. Thanks, David.
Thank you.
Thank you. Our next question is coming from Anthony Harpel, who's a private investor. Sir, please pose your question.
Hey, Mark. How are you?
Oh, we're good, Anthony. How are you doing?
Good. Can you give us a sense of what capacity utilization rates have looked like on the treatment side of your business, where you expect them to go in the back half of the year, given what looks like a market improvement in waste receipts? If you are expecting higher fixed cost absorption in the second half, what should we expect in terms of gross margin flow through? Thanks.
Yeah. We are seeing, as we mentioned, in several different ways, a nice increase in backlog and receipts. We beat our goal this quarter by about 10%. Our goal was pretty high, and that's somewhat continuing. It's a little slow over the Fourth of July week, but it's generally continuing on a similar trajectory for receipts. As far as productivity goes, you know, we've got a team of folks at each of our sites, and they're working full time. We're chugging away. It's difficult to address productivity 'cause we have so many different types of waste streams. Some are real small, some are large.
I can't put a number on it to say, like, we're at 60% of productivity, but we could add a lot more work a lot more overtime and increase that if the receipts came in. Having said that, I'd probably say we're probably it probably are, if I had to put a guess out there, 50%-60% of our total capacity. As I mentioned about the labor, we are starting to see some headwinds in at the Northwest plant, specifically, as the Hanford site, which is an enormous site, you know, of 10,000 people hired, and they pretty soon went on a hiring campaign, we lost some folks, so we had to replace them.
We've been able to replace them, but they're a little bit less productive as far as throughput goes. We're not sure what that impact is gonna be. We think we have a handle on it and we'll be okay, but there is a sensitivity there that I thought was worth mentioning. We'll get through that as our employees get more productive, and we add in addition to those. We do see it increasing, again, getting better. As I mentioned before, when the government starts to spend their backlog or their carryover, that almost certainly generates more waste from projects and provides more opportunity. We know about a lot of those opportunities. Others we don't know about that will just show up.
The fact that we do know about a lot, and we have them targeted for the next several quarters, we do expect, you know, to see kind of a continued growth in the future.
Okay, Mark. Thank you.
Thank you, Anthony.
Thank you. Our next question is coming from Tuck Dickinson, who is a private investor. Sir, please pose your question.
Good morning. One point of just sort of ongoing frustration, I suppose, and I'm sure you feel it too, is you know, we've been hearing about TBI Phase II and Navajo Nation, you know, various questions on the conference call. It seems like for about three years now. Then in this release this morning, there's the comment made that hopefully we see TBI Phase II start to track before the end of the year, whereas in the last conference call you were saying the end of the third quarter. It just seems to be, again, going on for three years, continually pushed back, much as in the same way the whole vitrification cycle has been pushed back for years and years and years. That's just a comment.
I have two questions. One, you're almost out of cash on the balance sheet, but you have a clean balance sheet otherwise with very little debt. Can you speak to what your debt capacity is? I'd also note that, you know, you burned through almost or over $5 million of PPP money and close to $6 million of an offering in October. The cash is gone. I know you funded receivables sequentially in the last quarter, but what is your debt capacity and what is the ongoing strategy for raising funds to pay for the market when it starts to pick up?
Right. Well, Tuck, before I'll let Ben answer this, the debt capacity in a second, but just we share your concern on the TBI. You know, it's equally frustrating to see the endorsements by the National Academy of Sciences and the GAO, and through the FFRDC that we mentioned last quarter, and numerous other agencies, as Howard Brous had just mentioned. We're just hopeful the DOE will revisit their strategy and see the value in moving forward with this. That's really where it lies. We have significant support from our congressional delegations. We just don't know what else to do. We've briefed DOE numerous times. They're very aware with what the capability is.
It's just all about their overall strategy for those tanks and hopefully that'll begin to loosen up, and we won't be using the word hopefully anymore. With that, I'll turn it over to Ben to address the rest of your question.
Yes. Of course, Tuck Dickinson, cash is always the most visible thing on the balance sheet and the indicator of our success. The recent past quarters have certainly had an impact, but our working capital remains positive. There is a point in time, and our availability on our revolver remains healthy. It is over $4.5 million, almost $5 million. Our debt is low, as you mentioned. If you look at the cash flow and you'll see it when we file, a big chunk of that was paying down vendors. That, you know, is a timing issue. We've got certain receivables outstanding. Cash kind of fluctuates given the time.
Of course, it has everybody's attention at all times, and we are constantly forecasting out. Of course, with the low debt load we have, we have financing options available to us if we need them. We're, you know, obviously, in communication with those opportunities at all times to make sure we stay liquid. Very good observation.
As regards treatment revenues, I mean, there's something for everybody, like in your commentary, I think today. You know, on the positive side, the carryover spending, the backlogs up a little bit, waste receipts are up a little bit. It just feels like treatment revenues cannot get out from behind the eight ball. My question is there any chance that the government is really sort of adopting a new strategy that would sort of leave a steady run rate of treatment revenues, say just either side of $10 million a quarter, that it never really ramps up, you know? Excluding Hanford, obviously, which would be a big boost if that goes through.
I mean, just the base revenues seem to run now in that $8-$9 million range, you know, sort of best case recently. Maybe you get up to $10 million, but it's just a feeling that that thing just doesn't move. What's your sense on that? I know you mentioned about, you know, there is some potential risk here in terms of when the government actually starts to spend money, even though it looks like they really need to spend the money. That doesn't necessarily translate into a projection of when and if they start doing it or if they may have changed strategy.
Yeah. We share your concern, Tuck, in regards to that instability and quarterly revenue and just a projection that you can, you know, that's sustainable. We've been looking at that for several years and we put together a strategy to for waste sales to do everything we can to avoid that risk from, particularly from DOE. That's been a direct result of our international expansion. We've expanded into commercial industry. We're getting a nice steady stream of commercial waste now. We've gotten well over $1 million in international waste in the last 18 months, which was, you know, all new. It's very high margin. Everybody's happy with it. We've been able to treat it and send it back to their original countries for long-term storage.
It's significantly, like 90% reduction in volume. We're getting waste from other commercial industries, like the oil and gas industry and the pharmaceutical industries, that are material amounts of receipts. Our goal has been to expand beyond that, the general reliance on DOE particularly, to get those other waste streams rolling, to be able to put the technologies together and in place that provide value to these commercial clients over what they were originally doing. It's been working. COVID has had an impact on it. You know, it's very difficult to say, "Hey, the last two or three years, this is what's happened," because everything's been upended in regards to productivity across the board.
Our goal is to do exactly what you just said, and that is to get to $10 million a quarter, and then go up from there. I think with all this new market expansion, particularly international and commercial, that we can get there and not rely so much on the lumpiness of the federal government.
I'll just add to that if we get 10 per quarter, we're gonna do just fine. The problems of the past year and a half have been because it's been running more like half of that. This past quarter was the first quarter in probably two years that we saw a number up that high. I think it was up about $9.5 million, and that's a real positive sign.
Thank you. Our next question is coming from Ross Taylor with ARS Investment Partners. Please pose your question.
Thank you. Gentlemen, many of my questions have actually already been answered, and I would like to join the congratulations and thanks for the diversification efforts you're making. Can you give us an idea when you think and when you see yourself able to get to that kind of $10 million a quarter on a run rate? Sustainable run rate.
Yeah. Well, thanks for the kind words, Ross. The bottom line is it's really difficult to project that. It would be total speculation to say when we'll get to the $10 million. It's certainly, as we said, at $9.5 million sales receipts last quarter. We're starting to see, as I mentioned last several quarters, our RFPs that we're getting for waste treatment continue to keep the same trajectory, and they're going up every quarter. We had a really good June overall in RFPs and receipts. It
With a little bit of slowdown the first week of July and getting back on track here now for this, the latter part of July, we'd hope that we'd be at that same level, this quarter and the next, which are typically our two best quarters. I think we're on track, but I can't commit to when we're gonna actually get to the $10 million overall. As long as we see these receipts coming in, we'll catch up on the productivity side, you know, shortly thereafter.
Basically, the pieces are in place to get there, and it doesn't take a lot to push you over the top on that. You're pretty close, so we shouldn't be surprised that you could achieve that as we roll into coming quarters.
If the procurement cycle and the backlog spending would get back to normal, we're pretty confident we should be able to get in there to get to that level in the next several quarters.
Okay. What do you think the magic thinking is on the idea of waiting till they get 1 million gallons?
Right now, you know, DOE.
2000.
As I've said before, you know, they're trying to get this very, very complicated plant started. They're putting all their resources on this plant, this DFLAW plant. They're trying to make sure the regulators are on board with them and that the regulators are supportive. It's extremely complicated plant, one of the most complicated plants that DOE's had in many, many years. They're putting all their focus on that, and making sure that it gets done. I don't know when they're gonna start to recognize, hey, this can be done in parallel without a distraction. You know, I've met with some people this week. I was in Hanford all week, just got back last night.
The TSCR, which is a hugely successful program, it's pulling waste out of the tanks, providing initial treatment to strip out the cesium and iodine, and it's a very low level, low activity water. Once that 1 million gallons gets reached, then DOE's gonna be faced with a decision of do we shut the TSCR down or keep it going? At the pivot point that one would think that you wanna keep it operating, and begin to ship the waste off-site. Now, I don't know when that's gonna be 'cause it's up and down all the time. I don't know what their plans are.
One would think that the opportunity to start treating waste off-site, and disposing of and actually closing tanks, would be something that DOE would view as a big accomplishment, in addition to getting the DFLAW plant operational. We've always said that we've always viewed TBI as a supplement to DFLAW, because we know the investment the government's put into that plant, but they can certainly start moving some waste off-site tomorrow if they wanted to.
Okay, this is basically just it's a bureaucratic situation as opposed to there's no technical reasons why they need to hold off. It's just this is how they're-
That's correct.
Thinking about it.
Yep.
Can you go into a little bit more depth in the opportunities coming in the balance of the year with regard to ship decommissioning?
Yeah, the ship decommissioning is not as far as the other. You know, I mentioned before. There's a GAO report that came out. There's 48 ships to be decommissioned in the next 40, 48 months or something like that. I think those are the numbers. About 25% of those were nuclear. Right now there's limited movement on what those ships are, which ones they are, and how they're gonna be procured. I can't tell you which one's the next. I was told very informally that the Sam Rayburn was next in line. We know that the Nimitz and the Enterprise aircraft carriers are in the 2025 timeframe. 2026 will be procured in 2024.
We really have very little clarity on which ships are coming when, and what's gonna happen next. I don't know if it's a matter of funding or just lack of intel or lack of planning or just not advertised, but I'm afraid I can't give you any details that I know of on specifics on what's coming next. There's certainly stacked up within the Navy to happen in the next four years.
Okay, now you've got a labor force now in Norfolk that you trained up that, you know, are getting up to speed and the like. Does the Navy appreciate that in this kind of environment, the most inefficient thing to do is to let you lose that labor force through lack of work?
Oh, I sure hope so, Ross. We're trying to make sure they know that so that we can just move them on to the next ship. That is absolutely our goal. That's why performance on this ship is so important. It's a very complicated project to basically clean out about 140 rooms that are contaminated and some tanks while you're there in the hustle and bustle of Norfolk Naval Shipyard. We're rolling. You know, we're not behind schedule and things are at least not behind by much that we know of. It seems to be going pretty well relationship-wise.
As long as we continue operations without any hiccups, we're confident that the government will understand, hey, here's a proven group of people that have been trained and demonstrated performance. Hopefully that'll continue.
Yeah. I do have to say that if I ever start to think government actually understands how to do things, I just have to listen to one of your calls. It reminds me that I shouldn't smoke opium at work or something. Okay. That's really about it. I think that you guys, you know, you're executing as well as you can. I appreciate the fact you've broadened the reach of the company more into commercial, because in the end, you have a capability, it makes sense to use it. If it turns out that down the road somewhere you've got enough commercial business that, you know, the government business ends up being something that you pick up when you feel like it, that would be a wonderful situation.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Our next question is coming from Ryan Hamilton with Morgan Dempsey Capital Management. Please pose your question.
Good morning, everyone. Thanks for taking my call. I would also like to echo the congratulations on the diversification and the progress being made. Most of my questions have been answered, but the one that I'm curious on, I think I ask this almost every quarter is, could you walk us through what you're seeing as far as bidding activity goes, number of your competitors that are bidding, the size of the projects, and just the overall number and how it compares to maybe the last couple of years?
Yeah. That's a lot of data, Ryan, but let me take a stab at it. You know, we have both segments track separately. On the treatment segment, as I mentioned earlier, our number of RFPs every month continues to go up from January. I think I addressed the specific number on last call, but it continues to go up, and the value of those bids is going up as well, which has resulted in what I just mentioned, $9.5 million in receipts last quarter. It's a direct result of that. We're encouraged by that.
As far as it's very difficult to track and define RFPs that are coming up on the waste treatment side because they're typically a very quick request for quotes that you provide and you don't always know what's coming until they've already generated it. We don't track that the same way we do in the service. On the services side, when you have projects and typically complex requests for proposals, RFPs that are coming out, you can track those. We have right now literally about $500 million in opportunities in the services side between task orders and projects that we know are coming out from all government agencies that we're either provided initial responses to or that are scheduled to come out. Very optimistic about those.
That's by far, at $500 and some million, more than we've ever had on our hot list to come out. That's about two quarters projection, so $500 million over the next two, maybe two to three quarters that we expect to come out. Really good backlog on opportunities on the services side. On the treatment side, it's difficult to define, but we do see that continued optimism due to the fact that it's wrapped up in procurement. We're just not seeing the RFPs end up in our office as fast as we'd like.
No, that's great. What are you seeing as far as the number of companies bidding in addition with you on a lot of these contracts?
You know, it really varies depending on the complexity of the work. On the highly complex radiological work, there's very few, 2-3, which has been very encouraging. We like the super complicated, complex type of work because we have the team of health physicists that are really top of the industry and recognized as being so. Those guys are certified health physicists and nuclear engineers that know how to put together approaches that reduce risk. It's not just low cost, knock something down and take it away. Those are the ones that we'll have a higher win probability on and lower competition.
On some of the other ones we're doing for the Corps of Engineers, which is removal of buildings, but not quite as complex, we'll have as many as six or eight competitors. That's been pretty stable number overall. On the waste treatment side of the house, we typically have one or two competitors that have a different offering or different solution, not necessarily treatment, either disposal or something else. It's much less competition on the treatment side of the house.
Okay, great. A lot of this activity that you're bidding on these projects, are most of them cost plus or are they fixed as far as, you know, what you're gonna recapture?
You know, we have bid. If you look back at our history, most of our contracts in the last several up until this past year have been T&M cost reimbursable. Most of the ones on our hot list, and I mentioned the $500 million, I'd probably say the majority are gonna be fixed price task or types of work. We do have. As I mentioned, there's two large ones with Howard's question in the beginning for tank closure and for the operations of the DUF6 plants. Those are certainly cost reimbursable with some fixed unit rates. The cost plus, in other words, with fixed unit rates on some components of it.
Some of the larger ones will be cost-plus T&M, and some of the small to mid-size ones will be fixed price. It really ranges, but we're seeing pretty much a mixture of all of it.
Well, I appreciate the color, and keep up the good work. Thanks a lot for your time.
All right. Thanks, Ryan.
Thank you. Our next question is coming from Michael Prouting of 10K Capital. Please pose your question.
Yeah, good morning. Appreciate the call and all the detail that you've been able to share with us. One question I had for investors who are less familiar with government contracting, and I don't wanna put you on a record here as being critical of people or an agency that you need to keep on your side. For investors less familiar with government contracting, I wonder if you could just sketch for us a couple of things. One is, I guess, the level of decision makers within the DOE that need to be making decisions. You know, like, is it multiple levels or, you know, just try to characterize that better for us.
Then secondly, I'm just curious, you know, say if you put yourself in the shoes of those people at one or multiple levels, just, you know, from their perspective, what may be delaying whatever decisions they need to make, is it information that they're lacking? Is it the fact that engineers need to like dot all the I's and cross all the T's, add in some item? Is it career caution? Is it that people are retiring and being replaced? Or is it they're just too busy with other projects? Or maybe if you can just characterize both of those issues. Thanks.
Yeah. Mike, it's really difficult to address the procurement cycles and why it's taking so long in these things. You know, I think it's a combination of everything you said, including working from home, employees retiring, and hiring new people, and those types of things. Just the fact that it's backed up. You know, COVID had a big impact the first year, particularly, and it just hasn't loosened up since then. I can't really put my finger on one or two things. You know, if you ask a government official, they'd probably tell you that, you know, hey, it's the prime first-tier contractors that aren't putting out task orders either, on the DOE side, particularly.
On DoD, which is, they'll typically come out with task orders from the government. They're scattered around. I don't know. I really don't know what all the reasons are. You're right, I do have to be sensitive to being critical of our clients 'cause there's never any value in that. Hopefully these comments will be taken out of context along the way here, but I don't think many folks would argue that across the industry that the procurement cycle has just been much slower than we're used to in the last several years, as compared to prior years. I do have to believe it's all a legacy impact from COVID, to answer your question.
Okay. Appreciate the color. Thanks.
All right. Thanks.
Sir, there appear to be no further questions in the queue. Do you have any closing comments you'd like to finish with?
No, I'd just like to thank everyone for participating in our second quarter conference call. We remain extremely confident on the outlook of our business, and we appreciate the continued support of our shareholders, and look forward to providing further updates, and developments, as they unfold through the quarter. Thank you.
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. This does conclude today's conference call. You may disconnect your lines at this time, and have a wonderful day. Thank you for your participation.