Thank you, everybody. We're super excited to have Pentair up here with us today. We have CEO, John Stauch, and the CEO of Pentair pool, Jerome Pedretti. Thank you guys for being here. You know, maybe just starting off, you know, the company has, you know, really built a diversified portfolio, you know, not just pools. You know, why is that important, and how does that position the company going forward?
Yeah, so about $4 billion overall in revenue. We like to talk about our portfolio in the sense that we help our customers and our customers' customers move, improve, and enjoy water. I think those themes are resonating nicely, and when we think about that, moving is really pumps and flowing of the water. Improving is generally filtration and/or treatment of the water, and then ultimately, pool is enjoying the water. Now, Jerome will share with you that he does all three of those. But we only let him take credit for the enjoy piece and that's what we look at. But I think that framework helps us primarily in technologies.
It helps us in the way that we think about our channels and go-to-market strategies, and I think it also helps frame how we want to invest in the company, longer term and how we go forward, so.
Yeah, absolutely. Maybe kind of diving into some of the segments, maybe I'll start with Flow and work our way into the pool and the industrial. You know, we've seen strength there in commercial. You know, can you kind of speak about some of the drivers you're seeing on the Flow side and you know, what should we be looking for as we, you know, try to assess the outlook?
Yeah. So, you know, most CEOs aren't this complimentary of a segment that I think people pick on. You know, if you go back three, four years ago, people were asking why Flow mattered to Pentair, and how could this particular segment find its footing and deliver long-term shareholder value? And I'm very, very proud of all of the business leaders within this space because I think they gravitated to: How do we get a little bit slower growth, more valuable growth? And then, how do we really lean in and drive margin and expansion and ultimately cash that the other segments can use to invest? And I think if you look at the margin progression of Flow, it's very impressive. I think we have industry-leading margins in generally most of the businesses that we have.
And I think that really is rooted in the fact that we committed to being better in the commercial industrial spaces and utilizing our strong brands, our hundred-year-old brands, to go out and win business, for buildings, for data centers. What we do well is fire, and we also do wastewater extremely well. And for these jobs that we quoted on, we were able to also bring the input water or, you know, the general purpose water to the buildings. And by having that focus, we've been able to get really higher margins, and we've been able to deliver our jobs more effectively than the competition, and it's been a really nice growth spot for us.
Yeah. Maybe going to Water Solutions. You know, you guys have talked about maybe some opportunity in PFAS, but, you know, there's more beyond that. Can you talk about the opportunities you're seeing in that market and how you see it developing into twenty-five?
Yeah, emerging. You know, still in the early stages, you know, we have eleven to thirteen different filtration capabilities to meet all the PFAS standards. We've always benefited primarily in the food service industry, from customers who care about the water quality and invest disproportionately against not having an incident that comes from their water. So that's always been the leading player in the space. It continues to be. It's where our ice and our Everpure filtration brands work really nice symmetrically together to solve customer issues. It's been a great growth vector for us and an area that I think we see tons of opportunity in the future. We're starting to see emerging plays in PFAS in institutions, institutional drinking water.
But the price point of a PFAS filter is gonna be higher, so we still see a lot of institutions going to bare minimum. But I think over the next three to five years, we really think the levels of quality expectations are gonna rise, and we're gonna see an acceleration in filtration penetration.
Yeah, absolutely. Then to pool, you know, you obviously big kind of surge coming out of COVID. You know, now we're kind of in that moderation or digestion phase, maybe. You know, what kind of demand do you see in the market today, and how do you see that evolving over the next twelve months?
Since we have Jerome here, I'll let him jump in and dive in on this one.
Like-
I will tell you that when my CFO, Bob Fishman, joined the company, he's been with us about five years. I told him pool would be the most predictable and consistent business he would ever experience. He's seen anything but that. And, you know, I just want to lay claim that I think it's been an interesting journey, and I think COVID and supply chain and global inflation have created disruptions in a space that's generally been pretty consistent. I think we're starting to head back to consistency and predictability. What I really want to give Jerome and his team credit for is, if you look at our margins now, you know, gonna be somewhere around 33%. That's EBITDA, so think about close to 35% EBITDA.
He's gonna be in the higher single digits, so you know, when you talk about Rule of 40 being the holy grail, I think Jerome's done that. And we've done this in the wake of one of the lowest new pool build seasons that we've seen in a very long time, which gives a lot of optimism, a lot of enthusiasm to what this business can do going forward. But maybe you can jump in on-
Yeah. So I think this year, you know, on the new pool side, we're thinking gonna be about, you know, 60,000 new pools, but I think that that's really a low, well, a low level. I think, you know, close to a post-financial recession. And I think that, you know, the more natural number would be in the, you know, 75,000-80,000. That's what it was, you know, pre-COVID. So I think we're gonna have a, you know, a good lift, you know, coming up, you know, in the coming years on the new pool side. The remodel is gonna follow, you know, kind of a similar trend.
After, I think that we're excited because we have a strong after-market business, about 60% of our business, but there is a lot, you know, COVID, you know, installed base that has to be serviced in the coming years. So I think that really we're gonna have some good growth, and that's why we think that we can grow, you know, mid-single digit plus, you know, for coming years and expand margin at the same time, because growth is gonna help us to continue to expand margin.
Yeah. You know, a lot of focus in the market on rate cuts. It feels like we're on the eve here of a rate cut cycle. You know, certainly brings implications for residential.
You know, what do you think it could mean for pool? I don't know if you could look back at past rate cut cycles. What do you think the opportunity there is?
I think, you know, we came into the year. I don't think we thought there would be six rate cuts like some people did, but we thought we'd have three or four, and we built our plan around that as a company, and we're about 50% exposed at Pentair to residential globally. You know, probably 30%-40% of our portfolio is North American. We could definitely will benefit from rate cuts. So I'm looking at 2025 maybe being a deferral of what we thought would happen in 2024. But I would say when we start to see one or two meaningful cuts, I think we're still about six months away from what I feel will be the real recovery in our spaces. You know, we'll see it first in pool, right?
Because it's mostly a cash buyer or a buyer who has more money. But some of our other residential business is gonna need time for people to position themselves to sell their home, position themselves to move into the next home. And when they do that, they usually taste the water or see water that they're not used to, and then they want to change that water out to what they had before. And so I think it'd be a little delayed in the Water Solutions and Flow space, and I think a couple of rate cuts this year will at least spur the excitement level of the pool industry next year.
I think it has been a, you know, a drag also, the new pool in the past year and the remodel. So I think even if we just see that, you know, flattening out and starting to start to grow, I think it's gonna be a benefit.
You know, what matters more for your business? Maybe it's different if we look at pools versus filtration. But, you know, between new home sales and existing home sales, what's the bigger catalyst for demand?
So on the, on the pool side, there's a pretty good correlation between new pools and new housing stock, residential housing stock. So I think that those two work hand in hand. So if that, you know, starts to grow, we're gonna see that on the, on the new pool side. But, you know, 80% of our business is with, you know, existing pools. So I think that when you say, you know, existing home sales, people moving, I think that has an impact. The aftermarket, there is a piece of that, and there is a piece of, you know, the natural kind of upgrade or natural life, I would say, shelf life, that something has, on the, on the equipment pad.
You know, as consumers have come under some pressure over the last, you know, twelve, twenty-four months, you know, has there been any mixed changes in your business, or is it, you know, maybe the high-end consumer is just hung in better?
Uh, yeah.
Well, I mean, overall, the portfolio, absolutely. I mean, I think, you know, you hear about de-featuring or you hear about good enough. I think the last couple of years have been about selling products that are generally good enough. And it's been harder to sell some of the more technologically advanced or more expensive products up front that really save you money over the longer term. And I'm hopeful that as the financing comes back in play, we're gonna be able to get back to that level of penetration as we go forward. You can answer the pool one.
Yeah, I think the pool one is slightly different because I think that, like John said before, I think there's more cash buyers, you know, now, so it's a bit more, you know, high-end. And I think those cash buyers before just didn't have a good, you know, start date of the project they wanted. So I think that now they can enter the market, and they can buy a pool. So I think that that mix has helped us, especially on the Pentair side, I think. I think that it will go back to a kind of more normal kind of mix after that.
Yeah, you know, maybe stepping back from the market outlook and going to some more, you know, strategy and company initiatives, you know, transformation in 80/20. You know, I've heard a lot about 80/20 from a lot of companies, you know, the past couple of days. But it's, you know, something that's, you know, very core to you guys, and it's, you know, delivered very, you know, tangible results. So, you know, what does it mean to you guys, and ultimately, how does it affect top line and margins?
Yeah, so just a reminder, about twenty-four months ago, we embarked upon a transformation journey, and think of this as a, you know, within Pentair, underneath the three segments, we're a collection of acquisitions over thirty years, and I just didn't feel comfortable as coming from my CFO position and the CEO position, that we had addressed how to run these businesses most effectively and the channels that they serve, and driving efficiencies business by business, so underneath this is the ability to look at eleven individual business and hold business leaders accountable for the results. And the beauty of the transformation is providing four proven tools to those business leaders for them to use differentially across their businesses, so those tools, again, are value-based pricing capability. We're probably halfway through that journey from realizing the differentials.
What's different about this pricing activity is this really matches our products against our competitors, looks at the value proposition that we're claiming versus what our competitors are claiming, and tries to get the appropriate end value price, and then how do we optimally share that through our channels? The sourcing initiative is bringing an outside partner in. We needed to do that because so many people inside your company are defensive around saying, "We've sourced it effectively." So we needed a fact-based solution with a partner that had a database of global suppliers, and we needed to concentrate our sourcing spend that way. Our footprints are more than just factories. They're also warehouses, sales offices, and everything else. So those are the three big streams that we're ultimately going after.
The fourth stream is organizational efficiency and excellence, which is really: how do we spend less adding it up, and how do we spend more creating it? So moving G&A to sales and marketing. Those are the four bodies of work. When we were going through that journey, I stepped back and realized that all of the complexity wasn't being fixed. We were still giving the sourcing partners only a percentage of what they could source. We were only looking at value pricing and sourcing. So I decided to embark upon the 80/20 journey. Now, ironically, when I said this in Analyst Day, I thought we were dusting off a 1980s tool from ITW. And, you know, my channel checks were with companies, and a couple of them speaking here today, that are really 80/20 zealots. And so we embarked with an outside partner....
And I was very clear on the fact that they had to be P&L leaders who understood how to implement 80/20 in a pragmatic way. And so now we've done all the training across the company. We've had three deep dives into three businesses where we're farther along. We're not really gonna expect to see that benefit the next year, but I'm really excited about the progress. So I've challenged everybody here. You'll hear companies talk about 80/20. I would ask you to ask about their metrics, what's in Quad 4s, what's in Quad 1, what's their strategy? You'll find in a hurry if they're just saying 80/20 as a prioritization tool, or if they're actually using 80/20 as a value creation tool.
Yeah.
I do think there'll be a separation there because people want to be 80/20, but you've got to be really deep in the data to do it effectively. I'm proud of the teams doing it, and then as a CEO, I have to give them permission to walk away from non-value-added revenue, and we have to change our metrics and our incentives to encourage the whole organization to drive value. Last point on this, I said this earlier. I've changed my numerator from revenue to realized standard margin. That's where we compensate because what we want is high-quality revenue. We don't want lower quality revenue.
You know, you mentioned being about halfway through the 80/20 journey. You know, is the second 50% harder than the first 50%? Or, you know, and that maybe low-hanging fruit came first, or is it, "No, it's actually easier because we set the foundation, and now we're leveraging that?
So we finished all the training for everybody, which the training is you learn how to use the tool, and you get the math and the real data associated with your business. The first wave of 80/20 will really just be Quad 4 exits, you know, getting your low-hanging fruit. Quad 4s are parts that you're selling that you don't really want to sell to customers you don't really want to sell it to. The next stage is, how are we performing in our Quad 1, our most valuable products to our most valuable customers? You should see an improvement back on on-time delivery, quality, and growth.
And then the next two are the harder ones, as you mentioned, which is: how do you migrate your B parts to your A customers that you don't want to really sell, they don't really want to buy, but you've created an industry that needs it? And then the final one is also hard in the quadrant three in the lower left, which is you've got loyal dealers for long periods of time, but you're probably over-discounting them, overvaluing them, and they're becoming a little pesky to the, to the larger dealers because they're going and competing on price. And, you know, you basically have to start to exit away from them. But those are the harder parts of it, to your point, and I think those won't happen until 2026 or 2027 in the way we're looking at it. We'll get the low-hanging fruit in 2025, primarily.
You know, the 80/20 initiative, you know, I think it's pretty clear why it's good for margins, you know, being more efficient, focusing on what really matters. You know, ultimately, is it also positive for revenue? And, you know, how does it kind of go from, you know, a margin driver to ultimately a revenue driver?
Yeah, I'll talk it, and you can talk a little bit-
Okay
... about pool. I think you got to take on faith. The first part is math would say there's about 4% of your revenue in the bottom quadrant. There's no way my team's gonna listen to me because I've been telling them they have to get out of it, right? But the reality is, I think if you got half of that revenue out of your organization in year one, that would be very impressive. So think about maybe going backwards a couple of points in revenue. But then what should happen is because you freed up all these resources. Think about resources today being compliance resources. You know, we got ESG reporting. Anytime you put a product out there, you've also got to support it with customer service, you've got to support it with inventory, you've got to support it with freight.
You got lower volumes. That's the complexity that you're really trying to manage through. When you free yourself from that complexity, you've got time now to focus on why customers came to you in the first place, which is: how do we grow our very best parts with our very best customers? You should see a pickup in organic growth with that set of customers, and it's measurable. And I think then you know where your core growth is going. So yes, I would believe it's a core growth accelerator, probably six months into the journey, and we should be able to have measurable, differential, core growth acceleration from the 80/20 efforts.
Yeah, I think on the pool side, we measure, you know, how we perform with our top customers, right? Differently, how we perform with the smaller. Because I think we want those top customers to get to perfect. So we sign, you know, one, our biggest customer, pool Corp, to perfect, and then after we'll do it with the other one. And we do that also on the dealer side, you know, what tools can we provide those dealers, to the top dealers, to be, you know, doing much better and help them grow? So I think it helps us really to focus. That simplification helps really to focus on growth.
Yeah. You know, maybe turning to margins.
You know, 2023, you know, really nice 200 basis point expansion, 2024, you know, guide calls or something, you know, 200 plus. You know, I guess the company seems very well on its way to, you know, hitting that 26% margin in 2026. You know, I guess, what else is needed to get there, and how do you feel like the company's running against that plan?
So publicly, we committed to 24% by 2026. With, as in our Analyst Day, we pointed to the fact if things went right, we believe we could achieve that 26% ROS. Again, not really knowing what revenue number it's tied to. The real commitment was $100 million of EBITDA contribution every year in that LRP.
Clearly, as you take a look at our forecast this year, you know, we're tickling 23%-ish, which would mean that, you know, if we get this type of progress and we've got $100 million of the $260 million of transformation realized, and we still have $160 million more to go in the next two years, it's probably not going to take a rocket scientist to say, "Hey, John, Bob, you need to take these margins higher." And I think as we come out in 2025, we'll assess the progress we made, and we'll start to share what we think we can really achieve in the longer range.
Yeah. So I didn't mean to get ahead of you with that 26%, but, you know, a lot of momentum seen.
Yeah.
All right, maybe before I, you know, kind of get to the rest of the question list, does anyone in the audience have questions that they would like to ask? ... okay. You know, maybe going to, you know, going from, margins to competition. You know, there's definitely more public competitors versus history. I guess, do you feel like competition in the market has changed versus, you know, five years ago?
pool has more public companies, and yes, I do believe competition's changed, and I think it's gotten better, and I think when your competition gets better, it forces you to be better, and I think the whole industry is gonna benefit from it. I think, you know, we've always competed with the same companies, but when you have to publicly disclose your results, and you have to publicly disclose your performance, it's a whole different feeling, right, and so we now have comparables on the equipment side of pool to two other publicly traded companies. We can also see what public company distributors are reporting, and I think data is more freer Flowing, share is less of a guess and more known, and I think that's all good for business.
Yeah.
And it's good for customers, too, 'cause it keeps us all honest.
Yeah. I mean, maybe kind of staying in pool, you know, can you talk about the go-to-market selling strategy? Why are the relationships with the distributors and the pool builders or installers so critical?
Yeah, so I think that for us to focus with the dealer or a pool builder is important because I think the dealer does two things. He sells a pool, he sells basically an equipment pad. You know, the consumer is gonna buy a pool, but doesn't know what goes on the equipment pad, and then the second, he's gonna select the brand, he's gonna pick which brand is gonna go. So that's why I think that we have a, you know, strong relationship with those dealers, and especially, we're saying we have 17,000 where we have loyalty program with, but, you know, 4,000 which are really strong.
And then, you know, the relationship with the distributors is very important because we are a manufacturer. We let them, you know, distribute, so they have branches. They really have the kind of a day-to-day relationship with those dealers. And I think that, you know, that pull-through between, you know, the dealer and distribution really works well, and that's why I think that we have a strong value prop for distribution, for the dealer, but also for the consumer at the same time, and when we align those, that's where we win.
Yeah.
I basically, you know, compare internally and externally to the HVAC space for pool. It's industry-wise, it's similar. I think what's different is, and unique, which I believe drives our equipment margins, is that we ultimately own our own technology. So if you take a look at the technology on a Pentair pool pad, it's gonna be different than what our two equipment main competitors have. And I think that's good because we're claiming that ours is better, they're claiming theirs is better, but it's proprietary to you. But what's unique about this industry is you think a lot of our margins, our distributors make almost like margins, and our dealers make like margins.
Yeah.
And so that helps pull the professional channel. We're dealing here with electricity and water, so we don't believe that this should ever become a do-it-yourself space. This should be a professional trade channel space, and our equipment is getting more technologically advanced. It's working with each other more integrated as a system. And so having the best dealers who understand that product and can install, and having distributors who can answer those questions, and then us, as a company, being able to field support those dealers, that's critical to the growth strategy of this business.
Yeah.
And when we're all doing it well, and we're pulling incremental content and convincing consumers that they should have saltwater pools, they should have water chemistry testing, they should have automation, we all win. And when we all win, it's a much better space.
Yeah, can you talk about why automation is so important for Pentair, and ultimately, how you can use, you know, automation within pool, maybe to increase the value add that you're providing to the-
Yeah
... installer, and ultimately maybe use that to take more share of their wallet?
Yeah. I think it's important for everybody along the chain. I think it's important. Automation is important for a consumer or pool owner, just because I think they're looking for that effortless pool and where, you know, managing their pool with their phone rather than having to go in the backyard. I think it's important for the dealer, because the dealer, you know, not just makes money, but can control also those kind of pools and being able to be much more efficient because they can go to that backyard only if they need to. And I think it improves that from distribution as well. So I think that it helps the whole channel, and what we've seen is that pads, which are automated, pull more, you know, equipment, more technology.
So I think there's a 30% uplift, and then after you capture that also on the lifetime value after the fact. So I think it pulls a lot of auto equipment as well, and that's why automation is good overall.
Yeah. You know, Pentair competes on the higher side of the market and is always kind of known as being, you know, an innovator, you know, kind of leading that in the industry. You know, what do you guys see in the pipeline that gets you excited on the innovation side, you know, and kind of, you know, keep that differentiation versus the competitors?
I think that the two main one are, you know, one we just talked about, which is, you know, automation. The second one is, you know, about water quality. How do we improve the water that the people are swimming in? And so that there is, you know, less chemicals, and I think it's more healthy, so they can enjoy the water even more. I think those would be the top two ones, but I think that the other ones, you know, continue to innovate on, you know, lighting, you know, heat, and the other products as well. I think they are all important so that people can, you know, really enjoy their pool.
Yeah, Sorry.
Well, I just want to add that I... You know, I'll give you a fun fact, hot off the press, that we spent a lot of time calculating, too, mainly because of our ESG efforts as a company. You know, when you have a pool today, let's pick an area that's had one hundred straight days of one hundred degrees, maybe Phoenix or Scottsdale, you're saying: What's going on with water evaporation? And, you know, the levels of water usage in a pool are about the equivalent of having a half an extra person in your household. I know you don't think about that, but think about showers, think about toilets, think about dishes and dishwashers. So pools, by their nature, don't consume that much water, and I just want to make sure that we throw that out there.
But it does have an energy consumption, and most of our technology advancements have always been about energy savings, but it's now really geared to energy usage. And so, listen, people wanna leave a better world for their grandchildren, and they wanna be able to use products in a, in an enjoyment, like a pool, and say, "This is not hurting the footprint of the world." And I think we are continuing to evolve our innovations in that way, and the next one is the water chemistry. We don't need to use the types of chemicals that we do today in pools because of advanced filtration treatment.
Yep.
And so I think it's always about being the leader of what's next that makes this more environmentally sustainable, makes it more enjoyable, and makes it more effortless, as what Jerome said.
Yeah. I think there's a question.
Hi, thank you. With some of the advancements you've made on the technological side with a lot of these innovations, how do you see that changing your pricing strategy going forward, especially looking across the different segments and customer bases?
I think that with, you know, every innovation, technology innovation, I think we will be, you know, pricing that to what makes sense for the value proposition for our channels, so for the dealers and for the homeowners. So I think that when we launch new products, usually we see an improvement in a pickup in margin, so I think we feel pretty good about it.
Yeah, I think I wanna make sure we all recognize that, you know, we don't look at our automation as an app, you know? I mean, an app is how you interface with the things that you control in your house. You could have a whole automation unit or whatever. What our automation really is, is how do we work within the protocols and the sophistication of the equipment to optimize the use of that equipment?
Yeah.
You could, you could do that through our app, which we think is a simple way to do that, or you could use that through a home integration system. Either way, we have to continue to maintain all those protocols to evolve our technology. We think the biggest opportunity is most people don't calculate how large their pool is, and they don't optimize the variable speed pump-
Yeah
... to only turn the water once every twenty-four hours, which is really all you need to do, right? They turn high, low, medium, and you-- there's a way that you could calculate that. There's also a way that you could control or start to control the autofill on your pool to take advantage of weather patterns, like rain-
Yeah
... in certain areas. So that, that's how I believe the technology's gonna evolve, and I think there's a value proposition on that.
No, I appreciate that. You talked about, you know, clearly, you know, pools use electricity. Electricity prices have-
Or natural gas.
Or, or, or-
Or solar.
Yeah, or solar, yeah. The, you know, obviously, people wanna be, you know, be energy efficient to, to help the environment, but also, you know, as electricity prices go higher, the, you know, the savings go up as you move to energy efficiency. You know, is there like a-- Do you think there could be room for, like, a high-grading opportunity, you know, as people maybe prioritize the more premium energy efficiency, not only because of the environment, that's great-
... but also because they're saving more money each month?
I think we look at our products. We not just, you know, prioritize the ones which are more energy saving. I think we provide that energy saving, you know, across the board, across our different products. So our pumps that we sell are I3, which is the most efficient one. I think it's sold, you know, across all type of pools. You can, you know, turn the water on one, on a simple pool, but then you might need two or three on the high-end pools. And I think that's why we've managed to deliver some very impressive, you know, energy savings, you know, year after year after year, and we've been in Energy Star for more than 10 years.
We were the innovator on hybrid heating, and we still have it, and we sell it, and it could work off multiple different heating sources-
Yeah
... and you could optimize which one you want to use when. So those tools are out there. That's not as deeply penetrated as you would think-
Yeah
... because most regions are either natural gas dependent or they're electricity dependent.
Yeah.
Yeah, maybe if you could, just following on Toby's question a little bit, as it relates to pricing and promotional activity in the markets today, just kind of what you guys are seeing real time through the quarter, any real change or anything of note there?
We'll speak to what we did. We won't speak to what competition did, 'cause we don't necessarily know that, but you can... We're now through the early buy price increases for next year. We announced those September 1st, and Jerome?
Yeah, we announced a 3.9%, you know, price increase on average on, you know, that's what... So it's been communicated to the channel, and I think it's going through, and I don't think we see a lot of pushback from our dealers. I think it's kind of-
But for the rest of-
Expected.
Yeah, and for the rest of the portfolio outside of pool, we make those decisions closer to January 1st, and we see we're in a normal inflationary environment, and I say normal being wage inflations feel like they're gonna be back to more normalized rates. And from a commodity standpoint, there's nothing really accelerating on the heavy headwind basis, so I think we're gonna be looking at more normalized price environments, where what we expect our realized price to do is offset 100% of that cost play on the term. Did I answer your question?
Yeah, and on promotional activity, any change in promotional activity?
No.
No, I think we continue, you know, doing what we do well, and, you know, stay close to the dealers and making sure we're loyal dealers and, you know, try to get some people, more people in the county. That's the goal.
We do try to incentivize dealers for the things we really wanna sell, and-
Yeah
... we throw some more money at that, so.
I mean, maybe last one from me. You know, how is demand in the market, you know, across the three verticals? And, you know, anyone where you're seeing rate of change to the positive or negative?
No, you know, we're unfortunately we had to adjust our revenue downward for the year. I say that because we didn't adjust income or EPS down, which lends you to believe we would've crushed it if we would've got that revenue, and that was disappointing. But I think for our residentially exposed businesses and the demand in industrial and commercial, I'd say flattish from quarter to quarter, where everybody's sitting there waiting or deferring bigger decisions until they know where interest rates are gonna go. So I think we get better from here, is the way I would describe it, but I don't know when it gets better from here.
Yeah, yeah. I appreciate that. Well, we're up on time. You know, really appreciate you guys-
Yeah
... coming. Love the conversation.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you.