I'm also one of the payments analysts here at Barclays, along with Ramsey El-Assal. Very happy to be joined on the stage today with Paysafe's CFO, Alex Gersh, and Head of IR, Kirsten Nielsen. Thank you both for coming. Alex, well, Kirsten from Florida, Alex from London and then Florida, so it's been a lot of travel to be with us today. So, just to kick things off, for those of us who don't know Paysafe well, can you, Alex, provide a little bit of an overview of your two segments, Merchant Solutions and Digital Wallets?
Yes, of course. So I think that's what makes us unique in the payment space, is that, that we work both in B2B area with merchants, merchants acquiring, helping them acquire customers on the credit card and the debit card side, processing, as well as on the B2C area with our digital wallet. And so, a lot of our competitors do either one or the other. We do both. We have a geographically quite diverse business. We have about half of it is in Europe, about half of it is in the US. We're now very excited about growth in Latin America, as well, as that's picking up. And I think the opportunity to cross-sell between those two, those two, segments is quite, quite exciting. So that... Yeah, that's, that's in a nutshell, our business.
All right. So can you tell me a little bit about the key products in both of those segments? Because I know you have a wide product range. Could you just give us some of the your key go-to-market products?
Well, I think in the consumer segment, it's digital wallets. Those of you from Europe would know Skrill, maybe you know Skrill, NETELLER. These are some of the big brand names. We have a paysafecard, which is our cash product, you know, which is also quite big and very well known in Europe. And in the U.S., it's really just a merchant acquiring service, SMB customers in Europe, and... Sorry, in the U.S., and we do it through the ISO channel and direct. We're focused on growing our direct channel now, and because it's a much higher margin channel for us, and we've been hiring sales people, and we'll continue to hire this year. I don't know, Kirsten, if you want to add anything to that.
No, you're good. All right, so when I think of the end customer, both on the B2C and B2B side, who are these end customers? Who uses Skrill, as you mentioned, who are the end users on the B2B side?
We are huge in iGaming. I think we're probably one of the biggest in terms of iGaming and gambling, certainly in Europe. We have a very large contingent of iGaming customer in our wallet segment. In our eCash segment, we also have a large number of iGaming customers, but then we also have, it's kind of a gift card type of product, where people who want to buy things for their, you know, as a gift card, use us as well. In the US, in the SMB, it's really just SMBs. And we're... One of the keys for us is in our direct business. I would say historically, we've had what I would call micro SMBs, right?
Tiny, tiny, tiny, local shops, somebody's making beads at home, stuff like that. And we're moving up the value chain, trying to get to a higher value, still SMBs, but a higher value customers. We're not so much focused on industries in the US. We're much, much more focused on the state coverage of the different states, so we're trying to expand our coverage in the States. iGaming is very big for us in Europe, as I said, but it also is very big for us in the US, and it's growing at a 60%+ rate. So it's a big, big... It's a big and growing business for us. Overall, it's 6% growth in the quarter, but in the US, it's 50% growth.
All right, so I'm glad you brought that up because I want to talk about iGaming. When somebody says gaming, it could mean a few different things. It can mean video games, it can mean sports, sports betting. Can you define a little bit, and again, delve into a little bit more what you're offering to, like me, for example, as a customer, if I'm using iGaming on the Paysafe platform?
So betting is big. Betting is the biggest component, right? Whether it's in Europe, whether it's in the U.S., we're integrated with many, many betting operators. We're in 30 states in the U.S., I think, Kirsten, right?
Mm-hmm. 33, yeah.
We've added seven states in the quarter, I think, right?
Last year was 7, and then 2 states this quarter, yeah.
Quarter. Last year, yeah, right, exactly. So I think it's a lot of it is focused on gambling, and as I said, in Europe, it's big. However, I think gaming, so we announced a partnership with Xsolla, for instance. Now, that is gaming. That's more. That's video gaming, I guess you would want to call it. And what gaming companies find very attractive is our white label wallet, right? So we can. If they're, what they can do is brand the wallet and keep their customers in their ecosystem and offer them additional products and services. So we are, and Xsolla is the first customer.
We have about 10 in the pipeline, so we are growing in the gaming, video gaming type of space, but by far, gambling is the biggest vertical and the biggest growth we have-
All right.
both in Europe and in the U.S.
All right.
So in Europe, I think it's more kind of digital wallet focused. So you're gonna be able to top up your account, right, with hundreds of different payment types or different currencies, right? Or you can receive that money from a friend, and then what you can do in the wallet, right, is bet on, you know, thousands of merchant sites. You could, you know, send money to a friend, et cetera, and then you can get that money out, right, easily and instantly. So it's all about that kind of flexibility of getting money in and out and, and what you can do within the wallet. Whereas in the U.S., we're really, more of the gateway, right? Where we're connected to all of the, the operators essentially.
So when you're using your credit card, your debit card, or doing your bank payment, we're powering that in the back end and bringing in other popular local payment methods as well.
All right. Very helpful. Thanks. Now, I want to shift gears a little bit and move over to your sales strategy. Now, Paysafe has a fairly new C-suite. You and CEO Bruce Lowthers came in in 2022. So when you came in, you saw the sales strategy. What was working? What was not working? Just wanted to expand on that a bit.
So I think, and I mean, I can't take credit. This is Bruce's thing, right? So I think what Bruce saw is Paysafe came together through acquisitions from a bunch of companies, and they just were left alone, right? And he saw a lot of synergy and ability to sell products, a suite of products, rather than, you know, one, you're just selling wallets and somebody else selling acquiring. Create a sales organization that goes out, targets, and can sell multiple of the products that the company has. So there was a restructuring where the sales became under one person, Rob Gatto, who is a Chief Revenue Officer, and that was the big change.
And what we're now doing, this year, we announced we're gonna add about 170 salespeople to the organization. So what we're now trying is we're focusing on what we call enterprise customers. Now, well, for us, enterprise customers is $100,000 and up, right? So we're, we're not talking about Walmart here, right? So, so it's but we're focused on those types of customers, and we're focused on our direct channel in merchant acquiring. So what we're trying to do is those salespeople, about 100, will focus on the direct channel. About 70 will focus on this enterprise channel, and that will bring our total Fortinet- carrying people to, like, 300 or something. Do you remember? I don't.
Yeah, we're adding about 170 this year overall, which will essentially double the-
Double, yeah. So we see some very good green shoots. It's early, but we see some very good green shoots about the, what we can get out of those people, the productivity. We certainly see a lot of synergies in trying to sell products to, you know, integrated products to our customers, rather than selling separately. And we wanna step on the gas when it comes to sales. That's what Bruce wants to do, and that's what we're doing right now.
All right, so you mentioned some salespeople are vertical, sorry, sort of enterprise-focused. How about verticals? Do you target certain verticals, or is it not working out?
We target certain verticals in Europe and in the e-commerce, iGaming. You know, yes, we do. We target. We have some travel stuff, crypto, those we target. On the SMB side, it's really just geographically focused, right? So we're putting salespeople in the states where we don't have a lot of presence, where we think there's a lot of opportunity, and we're going after those. So it's slightly different. For SMBs, it's verticals. For enterprise, it's verticals. For SMBs, it's more geographical.
All right, and just, my last follow-up, you mentioned you saw some green shoots. You know, where are we now in the process of optimizing the sales? Are we still sort of closer to the beginning than the middle, or closer to the end? And how should we trend over the next couple of years?
Well, we've only... So out of the 170, we hired about 55 in the first quarter, right? And they don't really become productive until six months. So when I see green shoots, these are literally green shoots, right? So we need to see how that goes. We need to see or what we're able to do. But we doubled our enterprise sales from last year in the quarter. We doubled our enterprise sales in terms of the number of merchants we signed. So those are the green shoots. But, you know, I don't wanna overstate it. They are green shoots, and we need to see proof. Of course, we can always flex from the cost perspective. We can always flex this. If it's working, we can add more salespeople.
If it's not working, we can flex it the other way. So we just have to watch it very carefully.
All right. Now, moving on to something equally topical. On the earnings call on Monday, you mentioned an initiative of portfolio optimization. Can you talk about why this was necessary and what you're trying to do here?
Go ahead. Go ahead.
Oh, on the... Yeah, so that's—I would attribute more of that to the SMB business and merchant acquiring, and it kind of syncs up with what we're doing to hire more direct, you know, salespeople. But where we see some of some mixed headwind, when you look back over the last, you know, year and even in Q1, is where growth is coming from. So we've had a lot of growth in our ISO channel, which, you know, is through third parties. We also pay residuals for that, right? Which has a margin impact, and lower performance from our more direct sales business. And really, when you kind of drill into that portfolio, we see kind of higher attrition in one of those books. They tend to be just smaller, more micro merchants with more natural attrition.
But what we're trying to do is add, you know, value-add services, some of which we already rolled out in Q1, like chargeback protection and then backup terminal, then we're rolling out some additional services there. Hiring more direct agents, not just in total, but specifically in new geographies that we were more active. We were active in about 21 states in Q1 versus, you know, mid-teens, typically where we are. So we're really trying to shift that balance towards more of the direct sales force and business so that the margin mix improves a little bit. So that's really what we're doing there, just kind of improving the foundation and the mix of that business.
All right. I'd just like to one follow-up, because I think you, you mentioned it here, and maybe Alex, you did before, too. Just contrasting your direct and ISO business, is whether you just, you know, walk us through-
Yeah.
We basically understand how that breaks out.
Yeah, exactly. So if you're not familiar, ISO, they're kind of independent sales organizations, right? That's very common in the industry, but you're going to market through, you know, a third party, right? And that's a pretty big book for us. So in the Merchant Solutions business, that's, you know, ballpark, 45-ish%, and that has a residual fee that goes with that, right, that you pay to them. And so it turns out to be a lower margin business, and that's just where we've seen stronger, stronger growth, really. So we like the growth, but there's puts and takes on the margin, right? Where the direct is your own, you know, direct sales agent, right?
So they're on your payroll, but it still is a much higher gross margin business, and so that balance for us has just gotten a little out of whack over the last year or so. So we're trying to improve the mix of that there. The other portion of that, which what you'd also consider direct, is e-commerce, right? And that's where we continue to see, you know, close to 30% growth. And that business partly really driven by iGaming and some of the growth there with new and existing merchants. So it's really about growing that e-commerce channel, growing that direct agent channel, kind of tempering that mix a little bit with the ISO not being so outsized.
Mm-hmm. And so, a similar question to what I had on the sales strategy. As far as this portfolio optimization goes, are you closer to the beginning, the middle, the end? What progress did you make in Q1?
Towards the beginning, yeah.
We're in the beginning.
All right.
We said we would spend, I think, around $25 million this year, kind of, investing in portfolio optimization and the sales initiative, which would include some of the new hires. You know, we've probably spent about 20% of that so far. Yeah, we're starting to see some of the benefits, but I think they'll be more second half weighted, so I'd say kind of early innings. But we're really trying to condense this into our 2024 plan, right? So that you then start to see some of that uplift in 2025.
All right. Now, we talked about e-commerce just a moment ago, and I think that's been an area where you've had double-digit growth. Can you talk about what verticals in which you're seeing a lot of this, some of your strongest growth right now?
It's iGaming by miles, right? So we are looking at other things, of course. And I think we'll, again, with the sales strategy, we'll go after some of the enterprise customers. I hopefully will achieve more of it, but it is iGaming today, and it is incredible, and it's continuing to grow. And with the U.S., iGaming really in its nascency, we see a tremendous growth ahead just in the U.S. alone. We're integrated with many, many different operators. The minute they go into the state, we go with them. So it's really just a question of getting more states and then getting more customers, right? So I think it's a very exciting part for us.
All right. So when we think about growth in the industry, should we just, is it sort of a secular growth, or do we think about, you know, whenever you read a new state opens up, you break out the champagne in your offices, and it's like, okay, here we go?
Well, we don't. We're much more low-key than breaking out champagne.
Okay.
We don't do that. But I think... So for us, it's a built-in growth business, right? We're already integrated, so an operator will use us, no question about it. Why wouldn't they, right? We already have integrated with them. Now, we will benefit when they start getting customers, and those customers start betting. That's not something that happens in five minutes, right? So you have to. To me, this is not a question of growth, it's just a question of when, right? Some states may go faster, some states may go slower. Ultimately, the way I see it, I used to be the CFO of Flutter, and bought, actually bought FanDuel for Flutter. And I can tell you this, every state will want money.
This is one of the very few ways for the states to get more money. So outside of Utah and maybe Hawaii, where you probably won't see betting at all, you will have it in almost every other state. And it's just a question of... So it's literally just a locomotive going down. It's just a question of speed, right? And as long as we're integrated with the operators and as long as our operators are successful, there is nothing really for us to do, just, just be successful with them.
Would you say a lot of the growth comes from new geographies opening up? Or if you have some state that's already, which is already legal, do you still see growth there as more-
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
People start coming in?
Of course. Of course. Yeah, I mean, there is. I don't think there's a state in the United States. New Jersey was the first one. I was there from day one. Literally, we did a deal with Trump Casino to do our first when Governor Christie allowed operators to come in. We were only allowed to do casino. We were not allowed to do sports betting at the time. This was 2013, right? So, and we had to marry up with the brick-and-mortar casino at the time. So we did the deal. I mean, it was $10s of millions in 2017. It's $1 billion now.
Even that went from, I think, when they opened, it was $200 million in their, you know, GGR for the first year, and then by year 5, 6, it was over, you know, $1.2 billion. So that kind of shows you how the adoption, you know, takes time to kind of ramp.
If you ever go to the Netherlands, where Flutter has its betting thing, I mean, you could see it. Let me tell you, we're not even halfway done with that, right? The states are now competing with each other for bigger gambling share because there's so much taxes involved. So this is— There isn't a state in this country that I think is mature.
All right. And just for some audience education, can you talk about? It seems like there's a little bit of a difference between sports betting legalization and gaming, like gambling, casino gaming.
The only difference is that gambling casino is state-regulated. Sports have to be federally regulated-
Oh
... which PASPA, which is the law that was passed in the United States. Well, sorry, the Supreme Court made it legal with their decision. That's the only difference. But yeah, I mean, it's, it's-
Even where that's, but to that point, there's kind of more room for not just, you know, adoption in the market with the sports bettors, but adoption of additional legislation, potentially, you know-
Sure
... in states that might only have online, you know, sports betting today, and maybe they add online casino, you know, in the future.
It's a lot of money to the states, right? It's a lot of money to the states. I mean, and they're all looking at the U.K., and they know how much gambling operators pay the U.K. government. Huge, huge amount.
All right. Since you're a big player here, do you see much growth from taking market share from other competitors?
I think right now, the market is so new. As long as you're integrated, you're going to grow. I'm not sure that we are at the stage now of maturity, where people start thinking that way. Eventually, they will. But today, I think there is an opportunity. As long as you're integrated into the opera- with the operators, and we're integrated with most of them, I think you should be able to do it very well, and we have been doing really well.
All right. I just want to move over to e-commerce a little bit. When you look at e-commerce now, in your portfolio, do you think today's high-growing verticals will be the same ones you're going to see in a couple of years, or is it fairly dynamic?
Well, I think the ones that are growing today will continue to grow, but I think there will be new ones added. I mean, you know, I'm generally, I'm very excited about crypto, not trading so much. We do that, but that's not. But actually, the ability for people to use crypto to purchase things, right? So our white label wallet is being used by crypto operators. We're signing them up. They're excited about working with us, but because regulation. Well, forget U.S., of course, it's not in the U.S., it's in Europe, I'm talking about. But because regulation isn't fully settled, it's slow, right? So to me, you know, I'm quite excited about. And we know we will have the regulation, and I think that's, that's, that's another very, very exciting vertical for Paysafe to play in.
Do you think having more regulation will be a bit of a catalyst for crypto's growth on your platform?
Well, I always, I always like to think about it. So if you think about gambling in the U.S., right? Many years ago, it was illegal, and it was a lot of it. There was a lot of it, but it's nothing what it is now, right? Because a lot of people don't like to do illegal things, or they don't like to do things that are not even illegal, but maybe not, you know, they don't... They're not sure, like, and you can't market things that are, that are gray, right? On television, you can't do billboards, you can't do any of the, I mean, I, yeah, I'm driving from New Jersey here. I mean, there's 5,000 billboards of every, every sport betting operator you could ever imagine, right? This is exactly, this is what happens when things get regulated.
Operators like us, who have a product that the customers want, benefit from that when mass market adoption of these things becomes clear. It only becomes clear when the banks are comfortable with the regulation, you know, merchants are comfortable with regulation, and people like us are comfortable with regulation. Things are much easier and grow much faster, and I expect that to happen with crypto.
All right. Apart from iGaming and crypto, any other verticals we should keep our eyes on?
I think kind of broadly for kind of entertainment and discretionary for us, that when we say gaming, too, like Alex said, we don't just mean gambling, but also would be, you know, video gaming is kind of a complementary vertical for us, where we have a nice sweet spot, and I think we could do more. And then I would think kind of broader, your travel and leisure as well, not the Delta Air Lines of the world, but your more kind of middle market type, your cruise lines, airlines, and things like that. So when we look at kind of that entertainment space overall and the experiential economy, we think that's where we're, you know, best suited for in terms of the complementary nature of our user base and then merchant base.
All right. Thank you. So now I just want to dig in a little bit more to your B2C offerings. We talked about your wallets, Skrill and NETELLER. For those of us who don't have them, I just wonder if you could get into those a little bit. How are they different from each other? Are they appealing to different consumers? And for maybe many of us in the room, we might have a PayPal wallet. How would you compare and contrast your product offerings with, you know, other things like that?
Well, first of all, everybody should get a Skrill wallet now, because otherwise I don't need to explain to you, you'll know it's the best wallet there is-
All right.
And all you need is just-
We'll get on it.
Look, I think there are two things about our wallet. Number one, it's our ability to appeal to merchants with both the acquiring and the wallet capabilities, right? We have significant number of cash points, over 1 million in Europe, that you can deposit money onto your Paysafe card, which is now also a wallet, because we've included pay in and out capabilities onto the Paysafe card. You know, we are very well known in Europe for gambling, particularly Skrill, although in some countries it's Neteller. But I-
Just two different brands. The backend is the same.
Yeah.
It's essentially the same. Yeah.
Yeah.
Some markets it just tends to be more popular than NETELLER. But sorry, keep going.
Yeah. No, no, no, no. I just think what we try to do with this earnings is we're trying to say, "Look, don't think of it Skrill and Neteller or Paysafe Card. Think of it as a wallet platform, which can serve customers in Latin America, in Europe, and which can offer different types of products and solutions to different people, depending on what you want." Clearly, the RP of an iGaming customer, a gambler, will be huge. It's the biggest platform.
But if we want to grow that business and grow that universe, we have to appeal to a much broader audience, and that's what we're trying to do with this platform, which, which includes Skrill, includes Neteller, includes Paysafe Card, includes digital white label wallets that we're doing, and includes the business wallet that we're going to launch in the US with a merchant wallet, I should call it, where we would allow merchants to have smaller merchants to have various capabilities in the wallet. That you could settle into the wallet, you could have, for instance, you could get a working capital loan. You got the wallet. We will integrate a working capital loan provider, who can provide it to a merchant, and we'll just take a small piece of that.
You can integrate all kinds of things into that wallet, which would allow merchants to have an easier way to manage their business. It's in its infancy. I'm not suggesting that this is going to be a huge business in the next few months, but it's how we take our wallet know-how and knowledge and use it differently now, in different places, to try to appeal to a bigger audience.
All right. Very helpful. Now, I just want to pivot over to actually company growth, company margins. As I mentioned before, you reported, I think, on Monday, and I think if I look at the 2024 guide, it looks like we're talking about 6%-7% revenue growth for the year, high twenties, the EBITDA margin. Can you talk a little bit about the puts and takes on this growth and margins?
Yeah. So I think. So in terms of, you know, the growth is slightly better than we expected. We saw some more crypto, because as crypto prices went up, we saw some more crypto activity. We saw some more gambling activity. So the growth on revenue is slightly better than we expected. The $25 million, of which, as Kirsten just said, a proportion of it was what happened in Q1, that's obviously impacting the margin. It will impact it for the whole year. We said out of the $25 million cost, 60% will be in the first six months of the year, and 40% of the cost will be in the second part of the year.
So that clearly has an impact on margin. But you know, the way I think about is we need to continue to drive, I mean, in order for us to improve our margins, the simplest way to say it, right, the math says your cost must grow slower than your revenue, right? That's what we need to achieve, right? And I see a path in which as we improve the margin on our direct business, as we expand the wallet capabilities and add more and more customers to the wallet, as the e-commerce continue to grow, we should be able to grow our revenue faster than we grow our cost, right?
And so I think we are certainly expecting margin to improve by the latter part of 2024 from where it is now, but then we can—we want to see that continued improvement in 2025.
All right.
That 7% tier, 6%-7%, keep in mind, last year we had a bit of a good guide or tailwind, I should say, from, you know, interest revenue on flow that we get on our consumer deposit. There's a little bit of an FX, you know, benefit there, too, which we don't have this year, right? So when you think about 6%-7%, really, that's comparing to maybe more of a low single-digit growth last year.
Mm-hmm.
So we see that as kind of a higher quality, true organic, you know, growth year, just showing continued progress in the turnaround of the business.
Yep.
All right. Helpful. So and forgive me, forgive me if you've already answered this, so I just want to make sure. You mentioned some increased investments that you're going to be doing this year. What are these investments in particular, and how should I think about the impact on the P&L?
So this is the $25 million, right? So it's the sales force, and it's the portfolio optimization. Those are the two: investment in the sales force and the portfolio.
Yeah, it's about half and half or so, yeah.
All right. And, I think the other thing, one of the things you highlighted in your earnings slides is you have leverage sitting now about 4.9%, down a little bit from last quarter. Can you just remind those of us in the room the origin of this leverage? Yeah.
Yeah, some of this predates the current management team and me to some extent. But yeah, so 4.5 times, you know, net leverage ratio at the end of Q1. That's down from, you know, 5x, you know, at the end of the year. The way I would kind of think about it, if you look at current era, meaning from when we went public to today, you know, we started off with about $2 billion of gross debt. We're just under $2.5 billion now. That really came through the acquisitions of some assets, particularly in Latin America, building out our real-time payment capabilities there, some assets that complemented our prepaid solution in eCash.
So really, that's mostly attributed to those deals, and then we paid down some of that since then. And so really the rest is more what I would call kind of legacy. So if you remember how, you know, the company was, you know, built out over, you know, 20+ years, really 25, kind of a history of some homegrown, you know, innovative businesses that grew, and then some smaller acquisitions. And then you, of course, had the Blackstone CVC take private in 2017, which would have contributed to a bulk of that.
So it was the $2 billion kind of inherited through this era, you know, the Latam deals, and then the subsequent focus on deleveraging that's gotten us to the 4.9 today, and we're continuing to drive that down as we grow EBITDA, too, of course.
Yeah, we've set a target for ourselves by the end of 2025 to be at 3.5 times, right?
Mm-hmm.
So which is much more palatable to a public company, right? So I think that's what and we're -- I don't see any reason why we won't be able to achieve it.
Right.
All right. As we get to the final few minutes of this panel, I just want to ask you how you think about capital allocations generally.
Well, we're in a great position, I got to be honest with you. You know, generating $300+ million cash a year. So if you look at the quarter, right, we were able to pay down some debt, $15 million, right? We were able to buy back stock, all right, $14 million, right? And we were able to continue to invest in the business. We spend about $100 million on CapEx every year, plus, you know, give or take a little bit, and we will continue to do that. So we are in a great position to maximize our capital position as the situation changes, right, as the circumstances changes.
But, you know, as you know, one of the reasons why I came to the company is because I could see what Bruce was going to want us to do operationally. I certainly think from a cash perspective, the company is in a very comfortable position to be able to achieve all of those goals, continue to invest in the business and return some money to the shareholders and deleverage, which is really a priority.
All right. And my final question: What, what assets or any qualities about the company that you think are misunderstood or underappreciated, that you want to highlight to people here?
For the more investors?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it's really, and Alex, I think, kind of kicked off with it. It's more, it's not really an individual capability or asset, but really the collection. So I mean, plenty of companies can do acquiring. You know, once you kind of take that globally, the universe gets, you know, smaller, right? We underpin that with a really strong, you know, global universe when it comes to, you know, licensing and KYC capabilities. We've got 300 professionals focused on risk and compliance. You know, that's kind of that merchant side, right? The B2B side, and then, you know, but not many companies then, you know, couple that with, you know, almost on a 12-month basis, you know, 18 million active consumers, right? So we've got, you know, the prepaid, you know, consumers in business and that large cash network there.
And we've got the digital wallet assets. We can bring in hundreds of local payment methods. And so I don't think we were really organized in a way that really captured the value of that, and demonstrated that to investors. So I think now, with the changes that Bruce and Alex have made, to optimize the business, to improve our go-to-market motion and build out a sales engine that didn't really exist before, it was very siloed. Now it's kind of one set of a sales force, you know, selling the entire suite of Paysafe's products across our verticals. It's just organized in a way to extract that value and show that to investors, and we have to probably do a better job communicating that. Then I think it just comes down to executing. We've got a plan in place.
It's still kind of early innings. We've got to reduce the leverage. I think that's kind of a hangover, you know, for some investors, right? So I think once that gets down to a more palatable place, we start kind of rebuilding credibility, right, with the investment community. I think, I think it'll be better understood.
All right. Well, a great way to end it. Thank you both very much. Alex, Kirsten-
Okay.
Thanks for joining us at Barclays.
Thank you. Thanks, guys.
Thanks for having us. Bye.