Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Sheila Kahyaoglu with the Jefferies Aerospace Defense and Airlines Equity Research Team. Thank you so much for joining us for our second annual eVTOL Summit. Today, we're lucky enough to have Rob Wiesenthal with us, who's CEO of Blade. For those who aren't as familiar with Blade, I'm gonna have Rob give an overview, but I'll give just a bit of background on Rob, who's joined us for a few summits and conferences. He's CEO of Blade Urban Air Mobility since July 2015. From January 2013 to July 2015, Rob served as COO of Warner Music Group, a leading global music conglomerate, so he's had pretty much the coolest jobs on the planet.
From 2000 to 2012, Rob served in various senior executive capacities at Sony Corp and was previously a banker. It's not in your bio, but I recall that. So thank you, Rob, for joining us today and really investing the time to speak with us. So maybe just to start, if you could give us a little bit of background on Blade, the markets you operate in, and how you broadly think about your business?
Terrific. We're gonna put up a quick page to kind of assist with this. Actually, last week was our 10th-year anniversary of our first flight. This was a company that I incubated in 2014, quite small, as we started. We started on the passenger side. And what's interesting about our company is that it really has transformed, where the medical business is now the largest part, most profitable part of our business. But let's start with the genesis of the company, which is the passenger business. We fly more people by helicopter to and from urban areas than any other company in the world. We are obviously very large in the Northeast. We have a big operation in Southern Europe, Monaco, Nice, Cannes, Saint-Tropez, Courchevel, Geneva, and Milan.
We have a very strong, really strong, position in terminal infrastructure, which is critical in both domestic and international markets, which really is a prerequisite for what we call electric vertical aircraft, you may call EVA, eVTOL. You know, we do believe that as we transition from conventional helicopters, which we do on an asset-light basis with our business, transition to EVA or eVTOL, that we are really well positioned to be a preferred partner of all the OEMs for both manufacturing and deployment. On the medical side, we are the largest air transporter of human organs in the United States. We enjoyed tremendous growth, even looking just the last quarter, 135% year-over-year in EBITDA, 35% in EBITDA for the quarter.
Really, new perfusion technologies that allow organs to live out of the body longer have really caused a lot more growth than anyone has expected, and we continue that to continue. Then we also have a lot of fleet commonality with our passenger business. So the same helicopters that you may fly for Blade, say, to the airport during the day, actually fly organ missions with surgeons at night. Overall, you know, last quarter, we reiterated our guidance to be profitable on an EBITDA basis this year, and double-digit adjusted EBITDA in 2025. We reconfirmed our commitment to profitability in passenger in a standalone business because we've invested a lot to grow there.
When you take a look at recent private transactions for organ transplant, transplant businesses, transport businesses, that is, they're really achieving high, high valuations in our mind that really show the value in our stock. So with that, I'll turn it over to kind of more in-depth questions. That's a little quick summary of how Blade is today.
Yeah, maybe just stepping back, given the focus on urban air mobility, and then we'll get to Blade specifically, how do you anticipate Blade participating in the market, you know, with its operating model?
Well, you know, we do have an asset-light model on the passenger side, and that was intentional because the thesis of our going public transaction really was that transition from conventional rotorcraft to emission-free electric, quiet aircraft. And by having enough scale in that business, both in terms of terminal infrastructure, brand, number of flyers, routes, you know, we really believe that we have... We are the one place that a manufacturer would probably have to go to to achieve automotive scale. We are so big, in fact, in that business, that we do believe there will be a cohabitation phase, where you'll have helicopters and eVTOL or EVA kind of living together, because not every platform is right for the mission.
Sometimes we'll go 100 mi to a resort area, or it could be just four minutes from the West Side to Newark Airport, or we could be going to the mountains in Geneva to the Alps. So different aircraft for different use cases, different models, whether it be for a large amount of parties, for our by-the-seat basis or on a charter business. So I think you're gonna, we're gonna have to have a portfolio approach. And if you take a look at most manufacturers, to start, they have one specific platform in terms of usable weight, distance, charging time, and number of passengers. And we have to basically put that into our alchemy to decide what that right portfolio is for us. And what our model is, is to facilitate the purchase of these aircraft by our operators, because we commit hours.
We fly so many hours that actually, many companies rely on those hours to finance aircraft with Airbus, Textron, and others in order so they can purchase them, and so otherwise, they wouldn't be able to finance them. In fact, there are many companies today that solely service Blade on the medical and the passenger side.
... Maybe coming back to that slide and with Blade specifically, you know, how do you think about the most significant near-term and long-term growth drivers of your business? I'm always surprised when I see those medical numbers constantly up 35% year-over-year, and I'm like: "Is that an old slide?" And it seems to be new numbers. You guys continue to grow at a rapid pace. So maybe if you could give us an idea of near-term and long-term drivers for Blade.
Well, I think there's no question on the medical side, we continue to gain market share. It's a very fragmented business. We are constantly competing for, you know, contracts and deals with hospitals, both in heart, liver, and lung. But we are also exploring a lot of other businesses that are everything from critical cargo to organ procurement services, things where we can leverage our core platform, and also looking even at kidney, which is a huge business, which is something that we're not part of right now, that really can leverage our logistic expertise. Now, kidneys typically do not need the kind of rapid transportation, 24/7 logistics that we offer for heart, liver, lung.
But I think that, on the, you know, medical side, we have, you know, the growth will also be being able to do longer flights. Typically, organs would leave, live out of the body only for a couple of hours. With perfusion devices, heart, liver, lungs, you know, we can actually do much longer missions. In fact, with a company called Paragonix, we conducted the largest organ mission in history from Boston to Anchorage, Alaska. And that's kind of incredible. Something that's unheard of. Additionally, not only organ procurement services, where we deploy surgeons to make it more cost-effective and timely, for organs to be suitable for transplant, we're also getting very large in ground.
We have lights and sirens, ambulances, all over the United States at this point, as very well, especially in, you know, key markets by our hospitals. They have payback of just a couple of months, and they're enjoying margins that are much larger than our current margins today overall for medical. And on the passenger side, you know, the growth driver, you know, really will be, I would say, going deep as opposed to horizontal. We are in the most important markets in the world, the Northeast United States, Southern Europe, and Canada. To us, that are those markets today because of conventional infrastructure being restricted until new quiet aircraft are available. And what's gonna happen at some point, there's gonna be a great unlock with eVTOL or EVA, where because they're quiet, there'll be more places to land.
So at that point, we expect the exponential growth to happen. So we have this great profitable business today, in terms of our organ procurement business, actually, in terms of our, air transport of human organs business. On the passenger side, we're gonna continue to grow on a profitable basis, as we've said, you know, profitability in 2025 in passenger alone, and have enough infrastructure to continue this strong brand, number of users, technology, proprietary infrastructure, and even exclusivity, where we have—we're the only company allowed to fly between France and Monaco, one of the huge routes, and now we have interline agreements. We can book directly from Dubai, for instance, to Monaco on one ticket and actually get there.
These are gonna be the drivers of growth, but the unlock for passengers is gonna be when we get to electric, because with quiet, we get more places to land, and every pair of landing zones is a brand-new business for us.
When do you expect that to happen and, you know, to really come into your business model? What-- how do you think about the timeframe, and are you working with a specific operator there? I mean, OEM.
Manufacturer. Well, I think what's been great, as we grow, we have been having conversations with every operator. We did the very first test flight of an EVA in the greater New York City area with the Beta ALIA. I'm really excited about what Joby has planned, and, you know, I've had numerous conversations with them. I think they have a terrific aircraft, and I think the scale that we have, the brand that we have, the infrastructure we have, the things that really provide that competitive moat, have really compelled almost everybody to have conversations with us and I think put us in a position to really help them achieve automotive scale in production, which they frankly need in order to be profitable. So I think we have a great kind of seat to see what's happening.
So to answer your question, I still have to rely on what we're hearing from OEMs and from the government. I think that this recent move you've seen by the OEMs to want to start operations in the Middle East is for a reason. I think the governments throughout the Middle East have been very proactive in trying to prove their technological prowess, and they're interested—they're interested in becoming City 2.0, and you will likely see certification there first. I think that's important to these manufacturers, and I think it's a great proving ground for them. We're excited about it, and then you're gonna see it kind of come back to the United States. I would say, you know, we are hoping kind of 2026 right now, that we'll see some of these in service.
Again, I would say, I don't wanna call it exhibition, but I'd expect very few aircraft, but enough to show all the stakeholders, like local community boards, you know, government officials, the public, that these are in fact emission-free, quiet, and safe to fly. But I do not expect them to be a huge part of our portfolio then, but you will see them in some of our key markets like New York City, in our estimation.
Sorry, I'm jumping around a little bit based on what you just said. Going back to the competitive landscape, you know, can you talk about the competitive landscape for the passenger side as well as medical? You mentioned medical is very fragmented. How do you think about your share?
... Sure. Well, we're very lucky because in our biggest market and probably the most important urban air mobility service that is in the world right now, which is our New York to JFK, New York to Newark Airport product, our competitor is ground. We compete with Uber, and we compete with Uber every day, and we beat Uber Black handily. At times we beat UberX, and then with an Airport Pass that costs $795, passengers are able to fly for as much as they want for as little as $95.
There are no competitors in our passenger business in the U.S., in New York, and for our leisure markets on by-the-seat basis, we have 100% market share on by-the-seat basis, and on charter, probably about 70% or 80%. We're very well positioned there. Then in Europe, we do have competitors, but again, this exclusive license issued by the governments of France and Monaco to fly people on a by-the-seat basis between those two countries give us a very strong advantage. Then also, we're the only company with passenger lounges there. Also, we just recently have a completed build-out of Terminal 1 and Terminal 2 at Nice Airport, where we're the only company with helicopter lounges and terminals in Nice Airport.
We also give you the ability to land on the tarmac in Nice, so hypothetically, if you're coming from anywhere in Southern Europe and you need to connect to Nice, you land on the tarmac, you go through a private security for helicopters only, get put into a Blade van, and go straight to your gate, and you do all your customs and immigration by the helicopter. And so you're not only saving, for instance, while you're saving an hour flying from, say, Monaco to Nice, as one example, you're also saving another 40 minutes, maybe an hour, being in the airport altogether. So it's a fantastic product, and, you know, we're talking about a product that's around EUR 200, you know, outside special events. So I think that is, you know, really the competitive advantage there.
And then I think on the medical side, it's really scale our logistics capability and technology that we've, you know, really started the genesis on the passenger side, our access to our on-the-ground lights and sirens, SUVs, and the fact that we now have a mix between aircraft that we don't own, that we can use on demand, and now we're starting to add some own fleet, which has provided a great enhancement to margins. You know, we're expecting 25% margins or better because of bringing some of these owned assets. While we're asset-light, things like medical, where you're using those assets and sweating them 24 hours a day, is just more much more economic than not owning them. On the passenger side, because of the seasonal nature, the asset-light model works really, really well.
And again, just finally on the medical side, I mentioned, you know, the scale is a competitive advantage, and you being able to leverage our passenger business. But also I just think, you know, the breadth that we have in the United States across all the hospitals is something that really has given us a real edge. Again, we're competing mostly with mom and pops on that, and we also have great relationships with the hospitals, where they actually want to use us both for conventional organ movements, but also when they use perfusion devices from other companies.
Maybe if you could talk to us about, you know, some of your experiences in and around the world. What are some of the challenges of layering more on more flights into U.S. airspace, I guess, in particular, and what's your outlook for the potential number of EVA flights out there in Manhattan, and how do you think about navigating that complexity?
Can you actually restate the first part of your question? I didn't hear it.
Sure, sorry, if you didn't hear me, I apologize. You know, how do you think about operating in busy markets like New York City? And if EVAs come in there, how will you guys balance the complexity? How do you think about the number of EVAs flying around New York City?
Yeah. Well, I think, you know, there was a line used by Mark Moore, who was a leader in urban air mobility for many, many years, saying, "Dark skies, where there EVAs all over the skies, landing on top of buildings." That's just not the near-term or even the mid-term reality. These are gonna be shared operations where you're on a schedule or operating continuously from fixed points. You're not gonna go on an app and all of a sudden have an aircraft land in your building and for $40, go wherever you want. As much as I'd love that to happen, that's not the way this is gonna start, okay?
I think that one of the competitive advantages that we have is that we know that not only when EVA or eVTOL arrives, that that is gonna open up a new business, but it's gonna take a bunch of years to open new landing zones, okay? So we're still constrained by new landing zones, and that's why we have proprietary infrastructure. A lot of times it's exclusive, and we think there's a very big window where we will be the only people, the only company able to utilize both the infrastructure in terms of the landing zones, but also the, the terminal infrastructure that's required to get the kind of volume that you need to run every five minutes, different flights. And to give you a sense of the complexity of when EVA comes here, it's really not that different. Let's think about it.
We market to you, you understand the brand, we go into the lounge, we check your ID, we assess your luggage, you get on the aircraft, it's a five-minute flight. You land at Newark, at a lounge we actually have, say, at Newark Airport. What's the difference? The difference is that aircraft is gonna take the same amount of time, will still be flying Visual Flight Rules, okay? Will still be landing fees. It's gonna take the same amount of time, but it will be quiet and emission-free. But it's the same experience for the passenger.
I think actually on the interiors, because they were meant for consumers first, as opposed to, say, military or oil and gas with leather seats and such, it'll be a more comfortable experience perhaps, but the overall product really isn't gonna change, and in fact, we think the cost structure, because of, you know, landing fees and personnel and such, won't be that different in the beginning. But over time, given the fact that there's so many fewer moving parts in the EVA or eVTOL, the price will go down. And I do believe the governments will work with us to provide incentives to switch to electric aircraft. That could be longer operating hours, so not having curfews, that could be lower landing fees. But in terms of the experience, I don't see any type of operational complexity.
However, charging is something that is gonna be very important. We've already spent time with the local governments and municipalities about how to bring charging into various FBOs. Beta's done a great job with Atlantic and other FBOs, and so people are spot on, and I think that's gonna get solved. That's the only real infrastructure challenge, or let's call it, you know, milestone you're gonna have to is getting charging. And I think frankly, there are gonna be enough places to charge, you know, you know, a little bit away from the Manhattan area, so that won't be an issue. But and then finally, in terms of other challenges, the initial EVA that you're gonna have are not gonna have the same amount, carry the same amount of passengers or the same amount of weight that we do today.
So many of them are for two passengers, three passengers, four passengers. I think Joby's four passengers and 1,000 lbs. Typically, we're about 1,300 lbs and six passengers. That really factors into your economics. So even if an eVTOL is less expensive to operate, if you have only four seats and 1,000 pounds, that's a very different economic proposition on the revenue side to a company like Blade, than it is to be able to fly six people with their shoulder bags.
That is, that's super helpful. These are very insightful. So I'm debating which of my questions to ask because you, you've covered so much ground, Rob. So in terms of just the IP of Blade around technology, and experience provided to the customer, what do you think is the biggest competitive advantage that Blade has? You mentioned some of the exclusive flight routes that you have, one of the only helicopter ports that you have in some regions. So what do you think about the IP that Blade brings in terms of the technology?
Yeah. Well, look, in terms of, you know, the competitive moat, there's no question that the most important competitive moat is infrastructure that cannot be replicated in the most important operating areas in the world: New York, Southern Europe, Canada. It just can't be replicated. At some point after EVA is proven out, you will have more places to land. Now, in terms of technology, we've now spent close to 10 years building a consumer-to-cockpit solution. So that's everything from the consumer-facing app to an operator dashboard, where our logistics people actually communicate directly through to our operators in terms of scrambling aircraft.
So actually, we're in a situation now where when you book a seat on an app, and that aircraft, whether it be an amphibious seaplane or a helicopter, is booked, it can automatically create another flight, pick the operator through our staff here, and that operator dashboard talks to one of our operators that has aircraft, finds the right positioned aircraft, and then puts that back on the app for sale, and it's managed that way. We also even have in-cockpit technology that enables pilots to, in real time, manage manifests with respect to weight and balance. Weight and balance is really, really critical in terms of safely flying aircraft, so we help them with that, too, dynamically updating manifests. It used to be before Blade, you'd have to lock in a manifest for a helicopter operated the day before.
Now, within 15 minutes, we can update that manifest so that pilot knows how to fuel properly, and where to seat the passengers and how much baggage they can take as well.
And maybe, you know, just in terms of covering we've covered a lot of ground, just in terms of wrapping it all up, do you want to give us three takeaways you want investors to walk away with, both on Blade today, but as we think about the future of Blade and incorporating electric?
I think that, you know, when I take a look at Blade today, I think that one of the biggest opportunities that's clear, where we have an incredible competitive advantage, is on the medical side. I continue to be impressed by the significant growth, the high margins, the profitability of that business, and that allows us to fund our passenger business. However, I want to make it clear that passenger business will not be needing funding in 2025. So at that point, we're gonna have this great business that grows by itself without outside capital, and when EVA or eVTOL are here, that will provide exponential growth because we're already there with brand, with scale, with technology, with hundreds of thousands of flyers in the most important markets in the world.
When we're in a situation when electric is there and it's been proven out, we will be able to enjoy the fruits of our labors by taking advantage of new landing zones as they appear. So both of these companies kind of feed upon themselves. And on the medical side, you know, time-critical logistics, you know, critical parts, moving those things, there's so many verticals in moving critical cargo, and that we really think that that growth is there. And also, you need to understand, that is related to EVA as well.
One of the things I'm most excited about is that, you know, I would like to conduct one of the very first drone flights moving either things that we already do, like blood samples, tissue samples, or even an organ, bypassing the need for ground on the medical side. So EVA has important implications for our medical business also. So I think from an investor perspective, the idea to invest in this really rapidly growing medical business in terms of air transport that leverages the passenger business, having the company that is best positioned to take advantage of the deployment of urban air mobility with respect to eVTOL going forward, I think, you know, I'm obviously biased, but I think it's a really exciting company to both work at and to invest in.
No, that's, that's great, and you guys have a lot going on, and, we wish you the best, and thank you everyone for listening in, and if you wanna chat further with Rob, we could coordinate that as well. Thank you so much, Rob.
Thanks, Sheila. Appreciate your time.