Go ahead and get started. Welcome everybody to the Third Day of the 26th Annual Needham Growth Conference. I'm Quinn Bolton, and I cover the semiconductor industry for Needham. For those of you who don't think this is an important event on the calendar, I just wanna point out that Michael flew all the way from Taiwan last night to be with us here today. All joking aside, Michael, thank you very much for that effort.
My pleasure.
We really appreciate it. For those of you that may not be familiar with Synaptics, Synaptics was founded in 1986. It's a developer and supplier of premium mixed-signal semiconductor solutions that allow people to engage with connected devices and data throughout the home, at work, in the car, and on the go, supplying connectivity, sensors, and AI-enhanced processor solutions to OEMs that design IoT products and devices for automobiles, virtual reality, smartphones, and notebook computers. Joining me from the company, as I just mentioned, President and Chief Executive Officer Michael Hurlston, and Vice President, Head of Investor Relations Munjal Shah. Michael, Munjal, thank you very much for joining us.
Thanks for having us, Quinn.
Synaptics has gone through some, some pretty big transformations since it was founded in 1986. The initial business sort of focused on touchpad and touch screen solutions. You've transitioned to be much more IoT-focused, beginning 2017. Just sort of walk us through the, the transformation of the company and, the, the, focus now on the IoT segment.
Yeah. So first again, thanks, Quinn, for having us, and thanks for the commercial. It was well said. I couldn't have said it better myself. So, when I came into the company, I've been with the company for about four and a half years now, there was a preponderance of our business that was on mobile, and beneath that, a preponderance of the business that was on Apple. So the revenue of the company was roughly $1.5 billion, $1.2 billion of the business was on Apple, and we realized that was a very dangerous situation. In fact, it was more than dangerous. We knew that the Apple was changing their screens from LCD, which is where our socket was, to OLED, and we were effectively on a razor's edge.
We were gonna see that revenue go to zero in some portion of time. So it was more by necessity than anything else that we decided, "Well, hey, we better quickly figure out how to reposition the company." We repositioned the company as Quinn said in his remarks, toward IoT, and we were successful in acquiring a bunch of businesses. We acquired a wireless asset from Broadcom. We acquired a set of processor assets from a company called DSP Group. We added to a portfolio of products we had for the docking station market, in an acquisition from a company called DisplayLink in the U.K. So in those set of moves, we were actually able to keep the revenue relatively flat.
We think of ourselves still in this kind of $1.5 billion revenue number, but really shift almost entirely out of mobile. Now we have almost no exposure to Apple and really have repositioned the company very much toward this IoT market that Quinn alluded to.
You know, CES was last week, a big event that the company had a large presence there. We toured the booth, saw a number of your new products, your simultaneous real-time dual-band connectivity solutions, your Edge AI for user detection, your new Astra family of CPUs and, or MPUs and MCUs. Yeah, what were some of the highlights from your perspective of CES, and how was customer, how did customers respond?
Yeah, we've been super surprised. So, again, you did a great job capturing the highlights. That's what I would give from a product standpoint. Within IoT now, we are trying to move and focus on two areas of our IoT portfolio. One is our wireless connectivity, and we acquired that wireless connectivity asset from Broadcom, and now we're building what we would consider a more broad market solution. Broadcom is very good at delivering high-performance Wi-Fi, targeted at moving video over a wireless link, and what we're now trying to do is take that same database and move it to a more broad market solution, which is more data, characterized by data connectivity.
We think that that's a much bigger TAM at the end, and if we're able to prosecute our business correctly, we think we more than double the serviceable market that we can go after. The other piece of our business that we're very focused on is the processors, and Quinn talked about two areas. One is our very high-performance processors that we think today, today are targeted at set-top boxes, and we have a business there that's actually gone relatively well. But we think we can open that aperture up and go after medical, go after industrial. There's a set of applications that we can use to that make our MPU solution that was shown in the booth go after a bunch of different verticals without having to redo the chip. And then the other area for us is microcontrollers or MCUs.
We showed a solution that has human presence detection, a very simple AI algorithm. If you're in front of a laptop, the screen is on. If you look away, you walk away, the screen is powered down, which ultimately saves, Dell, which is who we're working with on the solution, 25%-30% of their battery. We think again, we can apply that MCU not only to the PC space, but open our aperture and go after a bunch of other adjacent verticals. We've been very, very focused on narrow, application-driven solutions, and what we're trying to do to pivot the company over the next phase is really go after broader markets, make our products more applicable to a number of different verticals, and make them as general purpose as we can.
Great. We'll come back to some of those themes that you just highlighted, and certainly were a focus of your Analyst Day. I know we are well into your quiet period, so I don't wanna ask too many questions around the near-term business environment, but just can you share any thoughts on just where do you think the industry is, or the company is in the inventory digestion process? Obviously, inventory's been an issue for most semiconductors last year and probably through the, you know, first half or so of this year, I would think.
Yeah, it was a pervasive problem. You know, you and I have had the pleasure of talking on a number of different occasions. It's been a real pervasive problem for us. I don't think we handled the situation particularly well. That being said, we have seen a general recovery in mobile-facing business. We do have a small portion of our business that still is mobile-centric, and we've seen a recovery there, and I'd say that business, for the most part, is operating where we'd expect it to be. We have a set of products, as you know, Quinn, that are PC-facing. The PC market, I'd say, in general, has recovered for us and is operating as we would expect it.
The big problem for us has been our enterprise-facing businesses, and there we have docking station, we have some enterprise telephony, we have headsets that go into call centers and serve the enterprise. That business is yet to recover. I think we're at bottom. You know, I don't think that it gets worse from here, but we still have some inventory digestion to work through, and we would expect that that's gonna take the balance of this calendar year. At some point, we expect to see a fairly significant recovery because we do think that, as I said a minute ago, our business should be operating about a third higher than it is. We're operating at $250 million a quarter.
We'd expect to be at $350-$375, if things are running as they should. But we're significantly below par at the moment, and that's mostly driven by the enterprise side of our business.
In, you know, through the downturn, obviously, it perhaps causes some companies to get a little bit more aggressive with pricing to try to, you know, gain market share. What are you seeing just generally on the pricing front or competitors starting to get more aggressive, or has it been fairly stable, from your perspective?
Yeah, there's... It's a mixed bag. I mean, I think that, you know, we... Let's talk about the enterprise side, which is kind of interesting. You know, certainly, there hasn't been a lot of elasticity in the enterprise side of the market, and, you know, no matter what we do on price, I don't know that it suddenly moves the needle. I think recently, we've come to the realization, as we've talked about on previous calls, you know, we have a significant amount of pricing power in those markets. You know, should we do something actually on the upside? Should we actually rethink our pricing strategy and potentially increase prices?
That's a process that we're going through right now to look at because of the pricing power, and we realize that some of these markets aren't necessarily inelastic. In the more competitive markets where we expect to see growth, in processors and wireless, for example, we've seen some pricing pressure, but not all that much, right? It's actually been surprising. You know, we operated the business at the peak at sort of 60%+ gross margin. We've given a long-term target of 57, I think that's reflective of 3-4 points of pricing challenges that we'd see in the base business. But generally speaking, maybe we've been pleasantly surprised at the competitive dynamics. I think that the semiconductor business, as a whole, is operating relatively rationally right now in the face of inventory challenges and depressed demand.
You're right, you'd expect more, but we haven't seen the pricing challenges.
Great, and if you do have leverage, and you channel your inner Hock Tan to, you know, take advantage of that.
That is something we're looking at. We are certainly looking at that.
Last sort of, you know, just business environment question from me. Wafer pricing, you know, went up pretty meaningfully for most fabless companies in 2022. 2023, not quite as bad, but still on an upward trajectory. Where do you see wafer pricing? Does it stabilize in 2024, or do you think that could still continue to be an input cost headwind?
Yeah, I think that's a challenge for us. I mean, we have the majority of our spend on one supplier, and that supplier has probably been the least malleable in terms of pricing. So we have not seen the price benefit that we would expect in the face of an overabundance of supply. Generally speaking, I think supply is, we're oversupplied right now on the semiconductor market. That being said, we've actually been able to take some cost out of the business by, you know, on the packaging side, our operations team has done a good job. Some of the other foundries have worked with us on pricing, so we've actually got some pretty decent help.
I think as we look out, you know, we might have to rethink our foundry strategy. It's been to become very, very meaningful with, with one particular supplier.... We might need to go to a more diversified strategy simply to affect better pricing coming out of that, that set of moves.
Got it. All right. I wanted to, you know, focus a good number of my questions kind of coming out of the September 7 Investor Day. You know, sort of theme really to us was sort of accelerating growth, and I know you used that in some of your slides, kind of, you know, call it Synaptics 3.0, real focus on IoT, and a move into sort of the, you know, to take your beachhead at sort of the higher end of MPUs and wireless connectivity and broaden that out. And so, you know, I guess, what, how do you see the company, you know, repositioning? What are the, what are the strategies to, to kind of, you know, further attack that processor and wireless connectivity space?
Yeah, we talked about it last night. It always amazes me how much work you do on this stuff. It's the level of detail you have is impressive. Look, I think on wireless, start with the wireless story. You know, as you know, having followed the company, we acquired an asset from Broadcom in 2021, and we've developed our own capability. We've hired a bunch of engineers. We've figured out how to work with that database and repurpose it.
The Broadcom database that we got is very much focused on this high-performance part of the market, this video transfer problem that I described earlier, and we're still in the early innings of that, but we think we can affect a lot more design traction on security cameras, on, you know, set-top boxes, things that move video around. Drones is another good example for us. So there are places that we think we can inflect with this high-performance piece. But to really be effective and grow our business, we have to get into a broad market where we're moving data rather than video. To do that, we have to redesign the database for cost. We have to do some things on the interface side. What kind of chips will it interface to?
Ultimately, we have to bring in an MCU, because in that piece of the business, you don't have—you're not gonna design alongside an Intel processor, a Qualcomm processor that can host a wireless stack. So you need something that's gonna run your software, and that's an MCU. So we're focused now on bringing a broad market solution to market, first, with the connectivity piece, and then secondly, ultimately bringing in from the processor side, and we'll talk about that in a minute, and bringing those two pieces together. So we think that we can double or, you know, more than double our serviceable market by inflecting and going after this data piece.
We'd expect to be sampling our first chip in the second half of this year, so we're almost done with the engineering work on that device, and we'd expect to bring that to market in the second half. On the processor side of the business, as I said, actually, we're not necessarily—at least in the first phase—we don't need to do a lot of new silicon and a lot new engineering work, because we think we have what we need at the very high end, an MPU, a multiprocessor unit, that's a quad or octa-core device that would go in and run an operating system in a bunch of adjacencies, video conferencing, even some of these really high-end home appliances would use that. Automotive is a potential application for that.
So there's a bunch of things that we can do with our existing asset by repositioning it and redoing our software. There's a mid-tier asset that we got from DSP Group, that's a dual-core device, again, an MPU, a little bit tiered down, that we think we can use for home automation, we can use it in appliances and things of that nature. Again, same silicon, just broadening the verticals that we go into. And then finally, on the MCU, and this is where I think things get very interesting, we did a deal last year where we acquired a company in Israel, Emza, that does this human presence detection that you saw at the show. It's a little AI, you know, it's this very simple AI use case where, as we said, if somebody's sitting in front of the PC, it does detection of that.
It uses a camera to detect whether that event has occurred. It's computer vision, this idea of now having a camera being able to make decisions automatically. We can take that same circuit and repurpose it to a bunch of different verticals. Home appliances is a good one, and industrial and meter reading, license plate reading. So we think, we again, no new silicon, but just going after broader verticals, and we're in the very, very early innings of that. What we saw at CES was customers that we'd never heard of, that were outside our comfort spaces, the PC, the set-top box, the enterprise telephony. We saw a whole range of different customers from verticals that want to use these processors in different ways, but take advantage of the underlying AI engine.
You know, who knows why people want this AI, but they all think that they have, you know, use cases for AI, and we have exactly the right engine for them to use.
It's probably the same question for both wireless and processors, but can you talk about your go-to-market strategies as you start to address these different segments? I think in wireless, you've talked about module partners and trying to expand your partnerships there, but you know, kind of talk about the go-to-market strategies as you expand, you know, your footprint.
Yeah, that's our challenge, I think. I mean, I think, turns out the difficult thing is the technology, and I would say maybe more by luck than anything else, we kind of have that solved. But the problem we're running into is the one you just touched on, and that's an interesting one. We're a company that's geared up to support big customers, Amazon, Google, Samsung, HP, Dell. I mean, we do business on scales of tens and $20 million. If we really are successful in going broad, you know, we have to be willing to do business with million-dollar customers, and a lot of them. And to do that, you know, you know, it's a good leading question.
We need a channel, and we need to develop a different, a whole different go-to-market motion. We're doing this in phases. I mean, phase one for us is to, you know, try to use on wireless, is to use module partners that can open up the next phase. But ultimately, we will, over the next few years, we're gonna have to build out a channel and a different way to go to market. On the processor side, again, we're trying to meter this, so we're, we're actually self-governing a bit, where we're gonna we've done a sort of a soft launch in November. We're gonna do a more meaningful launch coming up in the, in the first and second quarters, but we're not gonna try to engage a very, very broad number of customers to to begin with.
We're gonna try to self-govern until we have this channel built out, and we have the right go-to-market capability. We don't have that today. That's gonna turn out to be the work in process for Synaptics.
Got it. And within the wireless, one of the segments you highlighted was sort of the Bluetooth Low Energy and Thread segments. So you started with a lot of Wi-Fi or Wi-Fi/Bluetooth combos. You know, as you attack that broader Bluetooth and Thread opportunity again, you know, what are you doing to do that? You know, talk about some of the products on that roadmap. Do you have them already? Do you need to sort of develop them? And again, it sounds like a similar channel where you've got to maybe create the channel as well.
Yeah, that one is probably the one area, as it turns out, that we are gonna need technology. So we inherited this Broadcom asset. There's Bluetooth in everything we do. Everything we do is typically a wireless LAN and Bluetooth combination. But it's Bluetooth, a dual mode, where you're really enable Bluetooth audio, the car kits in cars. So it's a higher-end Bluetooth than the really, really mass-market, high-volume opportunity is this Bluetooth Low Energy that Quinn just referred to. That one is one where we're gonna need to take that same Broadcom database and do some fairly innovative things to get ahead of competitors like Silicon Labs. Nordic have done a great job in this market and built up billion-dollar businesses on Bluetooth Low Energy.
We think we have the right ideas to get ahead by one or two generations, whatever we have to do. I mean, we can't be in there with some me-too stuff, so we have to innovate. That one is again a work in process, I'd say. We have or we think we have a great chip definition. Our engineers are already working on bringing something to market on the BLE front, but that one is really a level of innovation that it requires a level of innovation that is a challenge.
As you expand in connectivity from sort of high performance to broader markets and Bluetooth Low Energy Thread, what are the impact on margins? You know, on the one hand, it's probably lower ASPs, but on the other hand, maybe it's a much more fragmented customer base, and you might have less pricing pressure because the volumes at any customer are lower.
Yeah, that's right. I think you got it right in your question, Quinn. You know, our view is ultimately this is gross margin accretive. You know, if we look at our wireless business today, it's slightly below the corporate average in terms of gross margin. Our target, as we've said, is 57%. The wireless business operates slightly below that. It's probably because we're dealing with relatively large customers today on that front that have pricing power, and so our ability to really command high gross margins is a challenge. If we're successful in building this broad market strategy, I think you start looking at you know higher than average corporate gross margins simply because they you know as you say the customers have less pricing power when they're buying fewer units.
As we, you know, look at the processor strategy to develop, you know, kind of, I'll call it, more general purpose MPUs, MCUs, you've announced the Astra platform, which I think is not just hardware, but also a software, and development kit or framework. Talk about the importance of having that software, you know, design development kit.
Yeah, I mean, look, I - that's one of the things that I'm most proud - people talk about the financial performance of the company, you know, over the four and a half years that I've been there, and obviously, we're super proud of that. But from an engineering standpoint, one of the things I'm most proud of is our software development process. Our software development process was very broken when I came into the company, and you know, each customer was getting a different software delivery from us, and that's just impossible to scale. There's no way you can scale that model. We have retooled everything over the course of the last couple of years, such that we deliver software in a very metered fashion.
are time boxes, so, you know, customer has a bug, it's only gonna be delivered to them in a certain window of time that's on our natural release scale. This process that we've built up, and it really enables us to get the scale. If we were where we were, you know, a few years back, where there's no way we could even aspire to this broad market strategy.
We think we actually can take this now one step further, where a customer that wants to buy a microcontroller, a lower-end, single-core processor from us, or somebody—that same customer, and there are many of these customers that wanna buy at the high end, an octa-core that is running an ARM A79, for example, we can actually give one software load that scales top to bottom, and you can compile in or compile out different features depending on what you're trying to do. So we've built up a lot of extensibility in our software. We think the differentiation as we look forward is that very same extensibility. We can run the same software load top to bottom, which I think our customers really like.
In terms of a, you know, sort of financial impact from these new efforts, you know, as you move into broad markets and Bluetooth Low Energy and Thread, as well as the general-purpose MCUs, do you think that's sort of a one to two-year, you know, kind of process in terms of product definition, sampling to customers, getting design wins? You know, how should investors think about, you know, when some of these new opportunities become sort of meaningful for you?
Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, the wireless piece, obviously, we had a running start on that because we're already in the high-performance market today. And again, you know this very well, that business was really plagued by significant inventory challenges. We had it running at $200 million+, which for us is a sizable business. It got reset to almost zero. We're climbing back out of that now, and I would expect that business to get to par, you know, sometime, par being back to $200 million, sometime even this calendar year. So we expect to grow back into where we were on that business, relatively quickly. But from there, I think it really starts to move. I think in 2025, we'd expect it to grow very, very significantly.
We, as you know, have put out a target that says in the next three to four years, we're at $1 billion in that business, and I feel like we actually have line of sight to that. We can see the growth rate, the design wins coming in that, that support that. So that's a more near-term set of events. Getting back to par and then growing from there is, you know, this calendar year, par, next calendar year, I think really, very, very significant growth on top of that. Processors is a little bit longer journey. I think on the processors, you know, we expect to build this foundation this year. We expect in 2025, really to be engaged with customers in a fairly meaningful way.
I think the first real revenue you're gonna see from the fruits of this broadening is 2026 and beyond.
Yeah, makes sense, especially on the software, because the software development that you need and processor is probably one of the first things you select when you're doing a new design, so.
Yeah, that's, that's right.
I know we've spent a lot of time on your newer sort of IoT core focus and processors and wireless, but don't wanna overlook the enterprise workspace business. At the Analyst Day, you sort of talked about this being a 8% TAM through fiscal 2028. I think that's probably a little bit faster than what I would have thought an enterprise IT or PC client growth rate would be. Can you discuss some of the new opportunities you see in that segment? I think Analyst Day did—you know, we've talked about the presence detection, but you know, also things like multi-protocol wireless headsets, wireless docking, you know, flexible meeting rooms as some of the opportunities you highlighted to maybe grow faster than you know, some of the underlying markets.
Yeah, I think, you know, we're still excited about this business. It's obviously great gross margin for us, and as I said a minute ago, in some of these areas, we have pricing power. So we really like where we are, and those are important focus areas. I think, you know, on near-term opportunities for growth are in video conferencing. We have initial designs in video conferencing, but very little to do there. We think we can do more. We think we can bring some of the collaboration functions, Zoom, Microsoft Teams, to desktop spaces, whether that's on the PC or whether that's in the, like a telephone or some sort of pseudo device that sits on the desktop.
In docking station, you know, the docking station market, I think is gonna grow from where it is, just because it's been so moribund over the last couple of quarters. But as you look forward, you get to par with the docking station business, the opportunity is to put wireless in the dock. Maybe not the wireless docking stations that we've talked about before, but an IoT dock that has the ability to do software downloads to it, to update it from an IT department, and also the ability to do some on-screen display. And I think we showed that at CES, where you can reserve a desktop or a space through the dock, and the dock will put, you know, a reserved or something like that on the screen.
You know, we like in the, even in the core TouchPad business, we like the fact that the TouchPads are getting bigger, there's haptics coming in. So we think that there is a number of interesting little, I would say, niche-y growth drivers that we can take advantage of in those businesses. And as you said, it's a, you know, mid-single-digit grower. It's not as nearly as exciting as our processor and wireless space, but I think there's, there's growth in it. You know, the first thing we gonna do is get that business back to par, which will look like outsized growth as we, as we get back to where we should be. But from there, you know, it's a modest grower, but there are opportunities to, you know, breathe life into that business.
You mentioned the bigger touchpads and bigger screens. I think certainly one of the themes at CES was bigger screens in automotive. I saw one vehicle that had an advertised 8K screen in the back seat. So, yeah, it-- they're certainly getting bigger. You guys have, you know, highlighted the digital cockpit as an opportunity. You know, the larger touch-enabled displays, pillar-to-post. You know, maybe spend a minute talking about the automotive display opportunity as you see it.
Yeah, I mean, we were first to market with a solution that integrates the touch and the display driver. So, you know, we took our old historic technology that you know well, that was positioned in mobile, the touch controllers and display drivers. We were selling both of those in disparate paths to the automotive market. We came up with the idea, okay, let's combine them into a single circuit, and that was a huge differentiator that enabled us to really get out in front of the automotive market. You know, the smaller screens, like a, you know, 10-inch, let's say, takes one TDDI circuit. If you get into maybe a, you know, Tesla-sized screen, it's two, sometimes three. These pillar-to-post, which we are coming out from Mercedes and other makers that we're working with, are four, five of these TDDIs.
So the bigger the screen, the better it is for us. I think what we're adding to the car is this Smart Bridge that we've talked to you about in the past. It's a second piece of silicon that sits immediately behind the TDDI. That's a video conversion. We do that well. That comes from our docking station heritage, where we're converting one video type to another. We do that, and we add this feature called local dimming, and local dimming is... You know, in simple terms, it just ups the contrast ratio of the screen, so we can create whiter whites, darker darks, and really create an OLED-like experience on an LCD screen. The LCD today, the state-of-the-art in TVs, in phones, is an organic LED display. In cars, it's LCD, primarily cost, but also because OLED fatigues.
If it's in a hot environment, it will fatigue. So the automakers really want to use LCD, with a Smart Bridge, basically creates an OLED-like experience on an LCD panel.
Yeah, some of the local dimming displays you had at CES or demos at CES were pretty impressive. So you could definitely see the difference. Lastly, before I get to, you know, one or two perhaps financial questions, is there anything that you want to call out in the mobile market? I know it's a smaller part of the business. I think you previously said, you know, you see inventory kind of back to more normalized levels, but is there anything to call out?
Yeah, I mean, just, I think, you know, you know, our relationship with Samsung that's been documented. There was a launch, yeah, I think yesterday, and we participated in a pretty meaningful way in that one. So our relationship with Samsung continues to grow. We think there's opportunities to do more with them. We're now pretty fully penetrated at the high end of the market. As you know, we had the flip phone before. Now we're in kind of their flagship, the Galaxy S series. We think we can do more, however, at the lower ends, because they're migrating the flexible OLED screens down into some of their A Series phones, and we think there's opportunity for us to increase our relationship there.
China, which is an interesting market, a lot of people are staying away from the China market. It's been good for us. Almost all the makers, Oppo, Vivo, Xiaomi, Honor, Huawei, all of them are using our touch controller solution, and, you know, we continue to do well there as the high end of the market continues to be a more meaningful part of the SKU stack in China, you know, we think we'll do well. So, that's been interesting. We think there are new display types coming out that will increase the signal-to-noise problem. People are considering introducing screens that have more pen enablement, perhaps some privacy modes, things like that. Those new panels also present opportunity for us, particularly, maybe not from a volume perspective, but from an ASP perspective.
Perfect. I'll close with one financial question. The company set a long-term gross margin target of 57%. You guided December to a range of 51%-54%, so call it 52.5. So you've got about 450, you know, basis points to get to the long-term target. What are the biggest drivers of that mix? I'm sure revenue plays a part, mix plays a part, but you know, how would you walk us through the bridge from 52.5 at the midpoint to the long-term target?
Yeah. I mean, again, very, very fair question. During the pandemic, the business was running at 61, so we were really running hot. We think that the walk from 67 to 57, some of it's price, we talked about in one of your previous questions, that's, you know, a couple points of it. A bit of it is mix. We are doing well in wireless, we are doing well in mobile, we are doing well in PC. Those are all below sort of the from a-
Enterprise, you said, is weaker.
The enterprise is weaker. So we would expect as enterprise, the walk now back up from 52.5% to 57% is all mix. That is all mix, and it's driven by the fact that our enterprise business, which is all, you know, 60+% gross margin types of businesses, has been operating at a substandard way. We expect that to recover sometime this calendar year, and as it does, we would see the gross margins back into the 57% range.
Perfect. All right, well, I think we will wrap it here. Michael, Munjal, thank you very much for joining us at the Needham Growth Conference. And again, Michael, especially thank you for traveling all the way from Taiwan.
It's great. I appreciate it, Quinn, and thanks for putting in all the time on the company. Really, good questions, and hopefully-