Tsakos Energy Navigation Limited (TEN)
NYSE: TEN · Real-Time Price · USD
39.27
+0.72 (1.87%)
At close: Apr 24, 2026, 4:00 PM EDT
38.51
-0.76 (-1.94%)
After-hours: Apr 24, 2026, 7:57 PM EDT
← View all transcripts

Earnings Call: Q3 2024

Nov 26, 2024

Operator

Thank you for standing by, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Tsakos Energy Navigation Conference call on the third quarter 2024 financial results. We have with us Mr. Takis Arapoglou, Chairman of the Board, Mr. Nikolas Tsakos, Founder and CEO, Mr. Paul Durham, Chief Financial Officer, Mr. George Saroglou, President and Chief Operating Officer, and Mr. Harrys Kosmatos, Co-CFO of the company. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. There will be a presentation followed by a question-and-answer session, at which time, if you wish to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad and wait for your name to be announced. I must advise that this conference is being recorded today. And now I pass the floor to Mr. Nicolas Bornozis, President of Capital Link and Investor Relations Advisor for Tsakos Energy Navigation Limited. Please go ahead, sir.

Nicolas Bornozis
President, Capital Link

Thank you very much, and good morning to all of our participants. I am Nicholas Bornozis, President of Capital Link and Investor Relations Advisor to Tsakos Energy Navigation. This morning, the company publicly released its financial results for the nine months and the third quarter ended September 30, 2024. In case you do not have a copy of today's earnings release, please call us at 212-661-7566 or email us at ten@capitallink.com, and we will have a copy for you emailed right away. Please note that, parallel to today's conference call, there is also a live audio and slide webcast, which can be accessed on the company's website on the front page at www.tenn.gr. The conference call will follow the presentation slides, so please we urge you to access the presentation slides on the company's website.

Please note that the slides of the webcast presentation will be available and archived on the website of the company after the conference call. Also, please note that the slides of the webcast presentation are user-controlled, and that means that by clicking on the proper button, you can move to the next or to the previous slide on your own. At this time, I would like to read the Safe Harbor Statement. This conference call and also the presentation of the webcast contain certain forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Safe Harbor Provision of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Investors are cautioned that such forward-looking statements involve risks and uncertainties which may affect TEN's business prospects and results of operations, and before passing the floor over to Mr.

Arapoglou, the Chairman of Tsakos Energy Navigation, I'd like to congratulate the company for being awarded Tank Operator of the Year after the inauguration of the first private naval academy in Greece. That shows the efficiency of the company's operation and also its focus on the welfare of the crews. And with this, I would like to pass the floor to Mr. Arapoglou, the Chairman of Tsakos Energy Navigation. Please go ahead, sir.

Takis Arapoglou
Chairman of the Board, Tsakos Energy Navigation

Thank you, Nicholas. Good morning and good afternoon to all. Thank you for joining our call today. In a market admittedly off its earlier peak, yet still with firm business and geopolitical fundamentals, TEN continues to be sustainably profitable, steadily generating equity, maintaining its healthy cash position, increasing its dividends by 50%, offering a substantial dividend yield on today's price, and continuously renewing and increasing its fleet with state-of-the-art vessels. The company's industrial model, characterized by nearly $2 billion of forward contracted accretive revenue and proven operational excellence, ensures the continuation of its stable, sustainably profitable performance and the rewarding of its shareholders, handling market cyclicality in an efficient way. So congratulations once again in order to Nikolas Tsakos and his management team on this performance and best wishes for more successes going forward. And with this, thank you and over to Mr. Nikolas Tsakos.

Nikolas Tsakos
CEO, Tsakos Energy Navigation

Thank you, Chairman, and good morning and good afternoon to all our listeners. It has been a positive nine months, and I think it has been a nine-month milestone growth period for the company. We have been given the ability to reallocate some of our older assets, monetize them, and move forward with state-of-the-art new vessels, a 21 new vessel program, acquiring five vessel companies earlier in the year, taking delivery of dual-fuel vessels, and we're still with 12 vessels to be taken delivery starting from April 25. We're going to be taking over three or four vessels within 2025, so it's a very active period for the company. We've been able to be active, increase liquidity, significantly pay down debt, continue and increase our dividend policy both for the common and for the preferreds.

We are facing an environment where there is a huge appetite for our services by our major clients. About 60% of our business is being provided by six major energy companies. I think Exxon is in the forefront, followed by Equinor, Total, BP, and Shell. All of them first-class names to which we were very proud to be partners in energy transportation going forward. There is a big appetite for good quality ships. We are at the crossroads of technology changing in our business. The prospects, the medium and long-term prospects of the business are positive, I think, as we have stated in our press release. However, we as a company, as the Chairman said, we have been trying to take the edges out of cyclicality, and I think we have been successful for the first 31 years so far, never stopping paying dividends even through difficult markets.

I think our President is going to take us through all the cycles we've been through, but always coming out stronger as a company in every respect. However, our share price, which peaked sometime in the summer. There has been quite a lot of profit-taking from that, which I think we're very positive to see because we have been a company that back in 2019, together with the whole industry, we're trading in single digits. We almost tenfolded. There's a lot of profit-taking, but we still believe that we're trading not more than two or three times earnings, where all our clients to whom we represent have an average of at least ten-time earnings.

So we do not expect to immediately trade the ten-times earnings, but at least double where we are today, I think is a fair valuation, and we are aiming to achieve this by explaining the different model, the industrial model of TEN, which we are actually an industrial mover of energy for the major oil companies. As I said, milestone 2024 so far, big growth, very exciting prospects going forward, business at least close to $2 billion of new business coming in. We have significantly increased our rates from all the 30 vessels we renewed with our chartering department. And with that, I will ask our President to give us a quick overview of what's going on with the company. Thank you, George.

George Saroglou
COO, Tsakos Energy Navigation

Thank you, Nicholas. Good morning to all of you joining us for our earnings call today. 2024 continues to be a good year for tankers and for TEN for the same reasons that played out for the last two and a half years. We are one of the largest and most established energy transporters worldwide. We had transported 460 million barrels per day in 2023 safely. That's.

Slide number three, yes?

Slide number three, yes. That's about 23 days of U.S. consumption or 5% of global oil consumption. We have celebrated 31 years in the public markets. And since our listing in 2002 in the New York Stock Exchange, we have paid uninterrupted dividends to our common shareholders. We have built a big, modern, diversified fleet. We have developed an industrial shipping model, and we have one of the highest repeat-caliber clients with ExxonMobil leading the way with 22% of the revenue, followed by Equinor, Shell, Chevron, TotalEnergies, BP, and others. As we have embarked on our decarbonization journey and started our green energy program, we find ourselves in 2024 as one of the largest dual-fuel operators with vessels in the water. We have six LNG Aframax-powered vessels and being the carrier of choice of energy majors for their transportation requirements.

We continue to fix vessels whose charter expires or book new business. Currently, the backlog that we have is $1.8 billion. This is minimum secured revenues, as the majority of these fixtures have also some profit-sharing element, and these charters have an average duration of two years. Thanks to our fleet modernity and the efficiency of our technical managers and their purchasing power, the economies of scale, we have one of the very high fleet utilization in excess of 92%. We have a company built with very solid balance sheets. Our fleet fair market value is around $4 billion. We have a low debt of $1.8 billion, and we have 30 million common shares outstanding. The Tsakos family and the management of the company are strong supporters with 30% plus of the shares outstanding in them.

Despite being a top-of-class operator, the valuation of the company is low, very low. In 2023, the earnings per share returned $9.04, and so we trade that two times and a bit over two times earnings when our major clients trade at least 10 times earnings. Moving on to the next slide, TEN was created in the aftermath of OPA 90, which is the regulation for the double hull, for the introduction of double hull vessels. Since then, we have faced six major crises, and we managed every time to come out of each crisis stronger and bigger. If we look at the fleet that we have built today in slide number five, you see a very diversified fleet that caters to the needs of our clients, spanning from crude carriers to product tankers, LNGs, and shuttle tankers.

Today, we have a pro forma fleet of 74 vessels, 62 operating in the water, and 12 new buildings under construction. The red and the blue-colored vessels in the slide denote vessels trading in the spot and period market with profit-sharing, while the black-colored vessels on fixed-time charters. As you can see at the bottom of the slide, 31 out of 62 vessels in the water have market exposure. That's 50%. This is spot and vessels with profit-sharing arrangements. And 49 out of the 62 vessels in the water, or 79%, are in secured employment, time charters, and time charters with profit-sharing. The next slide basically shows our access to our capital markets. We have grown the company since you see in blue the common capital raisings that we have, and the red is through the preferred shares.

We have retired four series of preferred shares for $223 million, and we have used the capital markets as a growth engine for our fleet renewal. We have built an industrial model in slide seven, as you can see, with the list of our charterers. As you can see, this is a blue-chip client base, with the biggest client being Exxon, followed by Equinor, Shell, Chevron, and Total. On slide eight, the left side of the slide shows you the all-in break-even cost for the vessels on a net income basis. Basically, the time charter vessels serve to cover the operating expenses, the finance expenses, and all the other overheads that we have, while the spot trading vessels basically serve for the upside and the dividend distributions to our shareholders.

For every $1,000 increase in spot rates, this has a positive impact of $0.16 in annual EPS based on the current vessels in the spot market as of the nine months of 2023. Managing debt is an integral part of the company's strategy and capital allocation. We have grown the fleet significantly with larger, more specialized vessels. The debt levels have remained more or less at a level that is very manageable. The net debt to cap currently starts at 44%. This shows the fuel. The next slide, slide 10, shows the fleet renewal and green ship growth since January 1st, 2023. We have sold 13 vessels with an average age of 17 and a half years and 1 million total deadweight, and have replaced them with 21 vessels with an average age of one year and 2.3 million deadweight.

This doubling in quality and the size of the fleet will help the company springboard the next growth phase. How do you think translate financially? Harrys?

Harrys Kosmatos
Co-CFO, Tsakos Energy Navigation

So, I guess I'll take you over the financials on.

George Saroglou
COO, Tsakos Energy Navigation

Thank you, George.

Harrys Kosmatos
Co-CFO, Tsakos Energy Navigation

Thank you, George. I'll take you over the financials of the nine-month and the three-month results, so during the first nine months of 2024, TEN operated 62 vessels, three more than the equivalent 2023 period, of which 11 underwent scheduled dry docking. As a result, the corresponding fleet utilization for the 2024 nine months was at 92.2% from 95.6% during the same 2023 period. As energy majors' appetite for term employment increased, emphasis was placed on attaining such secure revenue contracts to take advantage of the elevated rates offered, and as a result, the mix between secure revenue and spot-related charters was revised: 82% and 45% fixed versus spot for the 2024 nine months, as opposed to 77% and 54% for the 2023 equivalent period.

In this backdrop, and in a somewhat waning Chinese oil imports environment, something which lately seems to be reversing, TEN in the first nine months of 2024 generated gross revenues of $616 million and operating income of $236 million, which included about $49 million of capital gains. Fleet operating expenses of $147 million increased in line with the larger number and size of vessels in the fleet after the various acquisitions and divestments during the nine-month period. Operating expenses per ship per day, however, were 3.3% lower from the 2023 nine months at $9,306, thanks again to efficient management performed by TEN's technical experts onshore and onboard the vessels. Time charter equivalent per ship per day during this period, impacted by the aforementioned dry dockings and less days in market-related contracts, settled at a still healthy $33,390, 3.6 times higher than the above daily vessel operating expense rate.

Reflecting all the above, a net income of $157 million was recorded for the first nine months of 2027, generating EPS of $4.62. Adjusted EBITDA for the 2024 nine months was at $314 million. Interest and finance costs of $87.4 million during the 2024 nine months reflected the new loans for vessel acquisitions and new building deliveries, as well as continuing elevated global interest rates. Despite the material drop in spreads, TEN has met its duties due to its pristine track record on its debt obligations. However, this inevitable and controlled cost increase was to a large extent mitigated by about $4 million in reduced coupon payments on outstanding preferreds from the amount paid during the equivalent 2023 nine months and $5 million savings in forward bareboat hire from the repurchase of two Suezmaxes on leasing contracts in the summer of 2024.

Cash at bank, at the end of September 2024, was at $386 million, $9.5 million higher from the December 2023 level, and that is after having paid $258 million for common and preferred dividends for growth projects and the exercise of the above leasing repurchase options. Now, the results for the third quarter of 2024 were equally attractive, considering that 3 out of the 11 vessels that underwent dry docking happened during this quarter. A fleet of 62 vessels, as opposed to 58 in the third quarter of 2023, generated gross revenues of $200 million and operating income of $57 million, compared to $187 million and $53 million for the third quarter of 2023, respectively. Neither of these two comparable quarters had gains or losses from vessel sales.

Fleet operating expenses of $49 million for the third quarter of 2024 were 1.6 million lower from the 2023 third quarter level, despite the three dry dockings mentioned above and the larger fleet size, both in terms of numbers and deadweight. Operating expenses per ship per day were at $9,188, almost $1,000 lower than the 2023 third quarter number. Time charter equivalent per ship per day closed the quarter three and a half times above the opex number at $32,539, about $1,200 higher compared to last year's third quarter. The resulting net income of $26.5 million, producing earnings per share of $0.67, reflected the $5 million increase in depreciation and amortization costs the larger fleet entailed. Adjusted EBITDA finished the quarter at $100 million, $8.5 million above the level of the 2023 third quarter.

As of September 30th, 2024, the fleet's fair market value was about $4 billion and total debt $1.8 billion, corresponding to the higher fleet size as a result of four dual-fuel LNG-powered Aframax newbuildings and five more second-hand vessels entering the fleet. At the same time, net debt to capital remained at a very comfortable 44%. In ending and supported by the aforementioned results, TEN will pay a second semi-annual common stock dividend of $0.90 on December 20th, 2024, bringing the total distribution for 2024 to $1.50 per common share, 50% higher than 2023 amount, yielding approximately 7.5% on today's price. With this, I turn back to Nikos for the closing remarks.

Nikolas Tsakos
CEO, Tsakos Energy Navigation

Thank you, and thank you for describing a very busy period in a very efficient and timely way. I think what is important is that we are maintaining our industrial energy transportation model. We try to take enough advantage of the upside where the market is, but we always, and I think what is important of our long and continuous dividend payment. If you go back to the expenses slide, and I think this gives a very good description of, yeah, there you are. This is slide number eight. I mean, the way we have been able to go on for the last 31 years, we make sure that our first-class charters, who are more than, I think, 60% or 70% of our income, come from long-term employment and profit-sharing arrangements.

They cover all, and when I say all, our obligations, including depreciation, our interest, paying down depreciation and debt repayment for us is very similar because of the modernity of the ships that we have. So that's how we fare. I mean, we might not be the most exciting shipping company out there, but we are an industrial company. We want to keep TEN for the next generation, a bit like the Patek Philippe advertisement. You never own one; you keep it for the next generation. And that's what we are here to do. And that has kept us going for 30 years, being able to pay dividends for 30 years. Our peer group, which is first-class companies out there, which we are proud to be associated and operate in the same environment, all of them have a different strategy.

And we are all for diversity. Otherwise, it would have been a very, very boring peer group if we all did the same. You have companies. Most of the companies out there, they focus in one segment of the energy transportation. And although it's a very fragmented industry, they play a significant role. Companies are in the VLCCs, other companies on Suezm axes, other companies are just product carriers. We are, for diversity, we are what they call, it sounds corny, one-stop shipping, but we are. I mean, we have everything from VLCCs down to up to LNGs and up even higher to shuttle tankers and smaller product carriers. So we do what our client wants us to operate. We have a huge operating capacity. I think the biggest from the whole peer group. I mean, we actually train our own crew in our academies.

We have hands-on management of this. We have hands-on management also on the commercial side with offices around the world. We have academies in the Philippines. I mean, we take shipping seriously, and that's why we are able to have these results through the cycle. I was very, very happy to see that our operating expenses in an inflationary environment with bigger ships had a 10% increase, and I think that is a decrease in our income hadn't increased. That was very, very complimentary in difficult times, so I believe we should be looking at closer to industrial or infrastructure company valuations rather than just shipping valuations.

I mean, we tend to go up and down together with our peer group, whether we have been able to, or we're trying to, and we have been proven to be able to take out the edges of a cyclical market as much as possible. I'm sure there's even better to do, but we always try to do better every day. So with that, I would like to open the floor. And all of us are here to answer any questions that you may have. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. If you'd like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad. A confirmation tone will indicate your line is in the question queue. You may press star two if you'd like to remove your question from the queue. For participants using speaker equipment, it may be necessary to pick up your handset before pressing the star keys. Our first question comes from the line of Poe Fratt with Alliance Global Partners. Please proceed with your question.

Poe Fratt
Managing Director, Equity Research and Senior Transportation Analyst, Alliance Global Partners

Hi. Greetings. If I could, hi. If we can just sort of focus on the macro initially, can you just sort of give me an idea of sort of how you're thinking about with the U.S. elections, the potential for tighter sanctions on Russia, Iran, and potentially Venezuela?

Nikolas Tsakos
CEO, Tsakos Energy Navigation

Sure. Well, I have to be chosen as Secretary of State to be able to answer this, but just a poor Greek ship owner. But I mean, as long as it affects us, I think we are in general, shipping flourishes when we have open borders, open seas, and there are no sanctions. However, we are in a situation where 25% of the world fleet, I mean, that's a huge world tanker fleet, is what we call a gray fleet, which means that the remaining of us, the 75% that, of course, do not participate in any sanctioned business, are able to take advantage of the first-class business without the competition of rogues undercutting the market.

So I think sanctions right now are working for the benefit of first-class companies in our peer group because we do not have, I mean, the average age of what they call the gray fleet is above or close to 20 years. So we don't want to have those ships again in the Med or in the Caribs or in the Far East undercutting good-quality, responsible shipping operators. So in a sense, it has a positive. And on top of that, of course, we are not navigating. We never put our seafarers at risk. And our charter has never, never insisted. I mean, the quality of the charter we operate never insisted for us to ever cross the Red Sea if we didn't feel or our captains do not feel safe, and they do not feel safe.

And I think I respect, that's why we're doing business with the top-tier clients. I know other colleagues of ours that actually charter ships to lesser concerns are continuously pushed to cut corners and try and put their seafarers in danger and cross the Red Sea. And we had incidents that could have been environmental disasters and also with human loss. But this is something TEN does not do. Now, if with a magic stick one day we can put the world in peace, I think that would be even better for shipping. We would have gotten rid of a big number of older ships that are really run down so they could not charter to major oil managing energy companies again. And we will have more places too. There will be huge reconstruction, hopefully, in the Black Sea of Ukraine and Russia.

If there is peace in the Middle East, which there is room on the East, there will be huge reconstruction there. Yeah, a peaceful world is a much better world for shipping. Sorry for the long answer.

Poe Fratt
Managing Director, Equity Research and Senior Transportation Analyst, Alliance Global Partners

No problem, Secretary of State. When you look at it, Nikos, with the potential of tighter sanctions, if they did restrict the flow of oil out of Iran, especially, does the dark fleet get or the darker gray fleet, as you say, do you think they get pushed into retirement, or is there potential for some of those to get cleaned up and move into the unsanctioned fleet?

Nikolas Tsakos
CEO, Tsakos Energy Navigation

I think a big part of it will not be able to re-enter. The majority of those ships will not be able to re-enter the competitive market. I mean, energy shipping, LNG and tanker, and LPG, and of course, oil are very, very under tight environmental concerns from our clients. I mean, every ship has to be inspected every six months in order to, and if it's not in a perfect state, it will not be touched. So I think those ships will take a very long time to be in a perfect state, and it won't be worth for it because there will not be a reason. So I think we will see an increase of scrapping of all the tonnage.

Poe Fratt
Managing Director, Equity Research and Senior Transportation Analyst, Alliance Global Partners

Okay. Great, and then can we just talk about the new build program? I think in the Q2, you indicated that you had about $110 million to spend in CapEx for the second half of the year in 2024. Can you give me an idea of how much was spent in the third quarter and then how much will be spent on the new build program in the fourth quarter?

Nikolas Tsakos
CEO, Tsakos Energy Navigation

I don't know. How is that the spending? I do the earning, so.

Poe Fratt
Managing Director, Equity Research and Senior Transportation Analyst, Alliance Global Partners

Okay.

Harrys Kosmatos
Co-CFO, Tsakos Energy Navigation

So the total program was just over or approximately $950 million. The remaining for this year, so to give you kind of more updated figures because from the 6K, things have changed in terms of new loans acquired and the equity statements paid. So we still have for the remainder of the year to pay $21.5 million, of which about two-thirds of that will be bank debt, and the rest, call it $89 million of equity. The remaining, we're still discussing with various banks in raising commercial financing. Today, on the 12 vessels, we have kind of agreed signed on three, and we are very close on signing debt arrangements for the majority of the others. So as you can imagine, the payments would alter. But to give you kind of a high-level answer, so as I said, approximately $21.5 million remaining in the fourth quarter.

And for 2025, we expect, and assuming those bank loans will come forth, we're very close in a green, approximately just over $100 million of equity payments that we expect, assume to come from our own coffers, if you like, for 2025. So it all depends on the various installments that we need to pay, and sometimes they flip into the next quarter or the year following.

Poe Fratt
Managing Director, Equity Research and Senior Transportation Analyst, Alliance Global Partners

Yeah. I was trying to focus on what the total installments were irrespective of how you finance them. So Harrys, how much did you spend in the third quarter in installments? Okay. Maybe we could do a call later this week. That would be helpful.

Harrys Kosmatos
Co-CFO, Tsakos Energy Navigation

Yes, I can. Because each vessel has a different kind of pattern. So we can have it offline just to give you kind of a general and down-to-the-dollar detail.

Poe Fratt
Managing Director, Equity Research and Senior Transportation Analyst, Alliance Global Partners

Okay. And.

Harrys Kosmatos
Co-CFO, Tsakos Energy Navigation

Exact number.

Poe Fratt
Managing Director, Equity Research and Senior Transportation Analyst, Alliance Global Partners

Then in the second quarter, there was a little bit of twist I saw in the financials as far as now you have time deposits. Do you have a time deposit figure for the third quarter? I think it was $94 million in the second.

Nikolas Tsakos
CEO, Tsakos Energy Navigation

Approximately 10.

Nicolas Bornozis
President, Capital Link

Very interesting thing. Do you mean pushing the time deposits?

Nikolas Tsakos
CEO, Tsakos Energy Navigation

We try to keep the majority of our cash rolling and having interest on a daily basis. So we have an average interest income of more than 4% and 5% of the 4. So we always have time deposits, and the money, the $400 million or $380 million we have, is earning the 4%-5% interest on a daily basis, regardless if it's time deposit or not. So the majority of it, you can consider it that is on time deposits.

Poe Fratt
Managing Director, Equity Research and Senior Transportation Analyst, Alliance Global Partners

Understood. Okay. Great. Thank you so much.

Nikolas Tsakos
CEO, Tsakos Energy Navigation

Thank you, Paul.

Operator

Thank you. As a reminder, if you'd like to join the question queue, please press star one on your telephone keypad. Our next question comes from the line of Climent Molins with Value Investor's Edge. Please proceed with your question.

Climent Molins
Head of Shipping Research, Value Investor's Edge

Hi. Good afternoon. Thank you for taking my question. I wanted to start by asking about your two Suezmax new builds to be delivered throughout 2025. It seems you recently secured a contract for the second one. Could you talk a bit about the duration and the terms of the contract on these two vessels?

Nicolas Bornozis
President, Capital Link

Yes. I mean, these are three- and five-year contracts for those ships to one of our two biggest clients. We're not supposed to spill all the beans here over the phone. And at very, very accretive, the minimum, if you look on page 8, where we have all-in breakevens, I think our minimum rate for the next three to five years is almost twice our breakeven. So it's going to add a significant amount of net income, cash flow, and for us who are big shareholders, dividend going forward.

Climent Molins
Head of Shipping Research, Value Investor's Edge

That's helpful. Thank you. I also wanted to ask about dry docking days during the quarter because that weighed on utilization, but on top of that, there was also some commercial off-hire. Could you talk a bit about your dry docking schedule going forward, both for Q4 and for 2025? And secondly, we are now two months into the fourth quarter. Do you expect to incur in commercial off-hires while during the quarter?

Harrys Kosmatos
Co-CFO, Tsakos Energy Navigation

Okay, so in terms of dry docking days, I mean, we usually assume anywhere between, let's say, on average, about 30 days, 35 days, and we expect in the fourth quarter to have three to four vessels undergoing a scheduled dry dockings.

Climent Molins
Head of Shipping Research, Value Investor's Edge

That's helpful. And for 2025, how many vessels?

Harrys Kosmatos
Co-CFO, Tsakos Energy Navigation

It's plus one because one will have to go dry dock by the vessels on the bareboat, so we will not incur that cost. So three or four vessels that will pass their special survey, we will incur the cost, and one it will not have any bearing on us. Sorry. And your other question?

Nicolas Bornozis
President, Capital Link

For next year.

Climent Molins
Head of Shipping Research, Value Investor's Edge

For 2025?

Harrys Kosmatos
Co-CFO, Tsakos Energy Navigation

Yeah. 2025, it is estimated approximately 10 vessels will have to undergo a special survey, dry docking.

Climent Molins
Head of Shipping Research, Value Investor's Edge

Makes sense, and then on the commercial off-hire for Q4?

Harrys Kosmatos
Co-CFO, Tsakos Energy Navigation

Sorry?

Climent Molins
Head of Shipping Research, Value Investor's Edge

On commercial off-hire for Q4, do you expect to incur any off-hire days on top of the off-hire for dry docking?

Nikolas Tsakos
CEO, Tsakos Energy Navigation

I think we will be in the same utilization period.

Harrys Kosmatos
Co-CFO, Tsakos Energy Navigation

Yeah. I mean, considering that we have like 92% because of all this dry docking, so we would expect that in the fourth quarter, utilization will be higher than that. So no additional off-hire days because of our vessel operations, we do not envisage any surprises.

Climent Molins
Head of Shipping Research, Value Investor's Edge

Makes sense. Final question from me. This one is more on the modeling side. General administrative expenses increase substantially both quarter over quarter and year over year. Could you talk a bit about the drivers behind this and whether we should think about it as a one-off or not?

Nicolas Bornozis
President, Capital Link

Yes. This is a one-off because we have, as I think you have seen, an incentive plan, share incentive plan for our personnel. So that is taken so it's really not a cash. It's not really a cash increase. It's just an increase that we have to take in consideration for the incentive plan. So it is a one-off.

Climent Molins
Head of Shipping Research, Value Investor's Edge

For Q4, we should expect G&A to revert lower then?

Nikolas Tsakos
CEO, Tsakos Energy Navigation

Yes. Yes.

Climent Molins
Head of Shipping Research, Value Investor's Edge

Makes sense. That's all from me. Thank you for taking my questions.

Nicolas Bornozis
President, Capital Link

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes our question and answer session. I'll turn the floor back to Mr. Tsakos for any final comments.

Nikolas Tsakos
CEO, Tsakos Energy Navigation

Thank you for listening in. I hope that our revamped presentation keeps you all a bit more animated with the slides. I think the slides are going to be on so you can study a bit more the company. We still believe that we are a very good opportunity, a buy opportunity. We, as management personally, whenever we're allowed, we're buying ourselves. We've never sold one. I know that the share price has moved from single digits up to 30, so many people are taking profits. I think there is a significant upside, and the company is trading at a very I mean, we're actually trading at a multiple that predicts that we're going to be out of business in the next six months. We hope with $1.8 billion forward and a lot of new ships coming, this will not be the case.

Nicolas Bornozis
President, Capital Link

Looking forward to be able to get the share price, make the share price great again, as someone said, and move up forward. The team will be in the United States early December doing a non-deal roadshow. We would love to be able to see you either face-to-face or a Zoom call on your side or those that are in the United States. With that, I would like to thank you and wish you a very happy Thanksgiving to everybody. I hope our CFO's presentation of a big dividend would help Thanksgiving and would not steal Christmas. Thank you very much. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. This concludes today's conference call. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.

Powered by