Okay, we'll go ahead and get started. My name is Georgia Calhoun. I'm here with the Jefferies Industrials team, and it's my pleasure to announce Dan Bailey, CFO of TTM Technologies.
Thank you very much. Thank you all for being here today. We've got twenty-five slides here, so I'll go through them pretty quickly, so I can leave some time for questions. The normal disclaimers, forward-looking statements under the safe harbor rules, so we'll quickly go through that. Just to familiarize yourself with TTM Technologies, we are a provider of technology solutions from PCB level all the way up through subsystems and full mission systems. We are in a transition of trying to differentiate ourselves, trying to move up that value chain more into the subsystems, what have you. But traditionally, we have been a technology company, mostly focused on PCBs. We've moved from more commoditized PCBs to more complex, higher-end, less build-to-print, more design-to-spec.
Currently, our scale is about $2.2 billion based on 2023 revenues. The markets on the right are the end markets that we play in, and we do talk to the Street in these end markets. Data center and semiconductors, large area of growth right now, year over year for us. We play in that generative AI space in the data center area. Networking has been about, you know, traditionally been a bigger part of our business. It's about 68% now, waiting for inventories to kind of burn down and start seeing demand there again. Aerospace and Defense is one of our newer markets and one of our strategic focuses. Semiconductor Capital Equipment and Medical and Industrial Automation and Automotive Technology, good core businesses for us over the years.
Kind of being in a little bit slower growth right now, but we have good positions in those markets. As I mentioned, just quickly here, history of TTM. We went private or we went public early twenty, you know, two thousand and one. Mostly, as I mentioned, a PCB manufacturing company. We've grown quite a bit through acquisitions, initially in those PCB markets, and expanding our footprint within the U.S. as well as then overseas through the Meadville acquisition, established an Asia footprint. So we could bring high volume production over to Asia more affordable.
But then in the most recent years, we've been more focused on, as I said, value-added product, moving up the food chain from just the board into things that are above the board, assembly, subsystems, and full systems. So we've made some acquisitions that not only provided additional footprint for us, additional customers, also exposure within AMD, in the Anaren acquisition in 2018, as well as the Telephonics acquisition in 2020. We've also divested some of the more cyclical businesses, so we used to do a lot of mobility. Apple was a main customer at some point in time. We had some Huawei business, and so there was a lot of volatility there with Apple.
And then, when we decided to stop doing business with Huawei during the first Trump administration, that took a lot of our business throughout. So we divested that business. We've also closed some underperforming factories within the U.S. over the last couple of years. And so we've strategically kind of, you know, managed our footprint and our exposure to more volatile commercial markets, with the intention of continuing to grow within the aerospace and defense market, which is less volatile, good, steady growth, and good, strong margins. This kind of goes through that story I just went through. We are trying to differentiate ourselves from our past, which is mostly, you know, commercial or more commoditized PCBs.
The PCB business that we still are in is more complex, higher end, and then we're entering into the more, what we call engineered products or integrated electronics, microelectronics, RF microwave, technology. And then we've also our diversification also is with regards to our footprint. As I said, we do high volume stuff for the commercial side of the business in Asia. We do a lot of... All of our aerospace and defense obviously is U.S.-based. We have quite a good footprint in the U.S. We've got a map of that I'll show you a little bit later. Our strategic focus has three pillars. Diversification in our end markets keeps us from being too volatile in one area or another and/or offsets when one's up and when others are down.
Our near-term focus, as I mentioned, is aerospace and defense, mostly growing through acquisitions there. So we'll jump through that, and then we'll get to the other pillars. Aerospace and defense, as of last year, is about 45% of our overall revenues for the company, and half of that aerospace and defense business is high-end PCBs for the aerospace and defense market. And the other half is more of this integrated electronics, these more engineered products, where we're designing ourselves into the platforms and getting on those platforms that will keep us in there for decades. The way this chart is built, we show kind of the third-party estimation of where this industry or this end market is growing over the next three to five years, about 3%-5%.
Our twenty twenty-four view for our company is that we're going to grow more than that this year. Again, we closed the acquisition last year that we, you know, or we closed it two years ago, kind of finished the integration mostly through last year, starting to reap the benefits of the integration of that company. The AESA radar is the full mission systems, the key product that we bought from Telephonics, and it is a driver of future growth for us. I think we also do a lot of communication systems, sensing, identify friend or foe. I've got some pictures of some of the programs we're on in there. A picture of that A&D business as of Q2. Our book-to-bill is very strong, so above one.
So we're getting good visibility and good, strong pipeline for our future growth. Our backlog stood at about $1.45 billion. That'll play out over the next couple of years, so about half of that, about 70% of our annual revenue for next year is already booked in that backlog. We're aligned well with the key defense programs. Again, I'll show you a picture of those. We're on, like, F-35, F-16, and some of the big radar programs. And again, we're focused on engineering product now. So if you look at the chart on the right, in 2017, the light blue color, we were mostly selling PCBs into the aerospace and defense market.
You see the other darker blues that we've started bringing in through the acquisition of Anaren and then Telephonics over the last three to four years. More integration or assembly of things above the board, as well as RF components and microwave components, microelectronics, and then full mission systems, like the radar that I mentioned. So the PCB part of our business has become slightly less than half, right around half of our overall A&D offerings. And then when I say A&D, look at the pie chart in the middle, we're mostly D. So 88% is defense, space, about 7%, and commercial aero is 5%. So very little exposure to that commercial aero right now. But so that presents growth opportunity in the future.
Here's just a picture of the programs, just to give you an idea. Obviously, we sell mostly to the large prime contractors, OEMs, Raytheon, Lockheed, Northrop, and L3Harris. Boeing, as I said, is on the commercial aero side, but that's a smaller portion in total of our overall business. Pictures on the right show you some of the platforms we're on. What we like about the A&D programs, you get your product designed into their contracts, those programs, and you're on them for decades. We do sell also directly to some of the government customers, Army, Navy, and Air Force, and some international ministries of defense. Most of that is through FMS, although we do have some direct foreign sales.
And as I mentioned, future expansion, commercial space and commercial aero, do offer some continued future growth for us in markets that we can capitalize on. That's the aerospace and defense side. In the commercial sector, there are a few mega trends that we are, you know, a part of. On the top there, Internet of Everything, increasing electronic content in automotive. You know, your automotive, your car is now a, you know, a computer on wheels, so the more electrification that's in there, the more sensing that's necessary. We do more of the higher-end sensing stuff. We're in ADAS systems, the crash avoidance systems and what have you. We're not as much in infotainment and such.
Robotics and wearables on the medical devices, we do those, you know, diabetes sensing devices and what have you. And then on the bottom is where a lot of attention is right now. The hyperscalers, the cloud, the generative AI business, the data center and computing. We are well-positioned in that area as well. So to give you an idea of the overall, the five different end markets that we measure, I talked to you about aerospace and defense. As I said, that's the largest one. The rest of them, we call our commercial businesses, but we break them into automotive end market, about 16% of our sales for 2023. Data center computing was about 14%. That's grown because of the generative AI, which is driving a lot of growth this year.
So as of Q2, that was up to about 20-21% of our business overall. Medical, industrial, and instrumentation is about 17%, and networking, about 8%. I think automotive, MI&I, and networking have probably come down a couple of percentage points and been offset by the data center computing growth since last year into the first half of this year. On the right, again, shows you kind of what the third-party estimates of growth in those areas are, and then what, you know, our comparative is for 2024, whether we're going to be growing at or above or below. Automotive and networking being the ones where we think that, you know, our share or our growth this year is a little bit slower than what those five-year CAGRs are.
And really, it's more to do with continued inventory drawdown, I think, in both of those markets. I think they were overbuilt. And then the automotive, a lot of questions going on there as far as, you know, transition to BEV and what have you, has been slower in the U.S. and Europe. China's doing everything on their own, so that's taken away from some of our market here in the U.S. But overall, well-positioned in all of these end markets, and we think, again, provides good diversification to be across these markets, especially, the aerospace and defense, being as large as it is now, really smoothing out the growth from year to year. Next pillar, differentiation.
Differentiation by engineering depth, early engagement with our customers, and building, you know, designing our product into their specifications, building good technology breadth, and then our global footprint, as I've discussed. The next chart gives you a picture of where we're headed from a standpoint of engineered products versus commercial PCBs. So on the commercial markets, we do just play in that PCB range, and then some RF components. So really tier four products. In the aerospace and defense market, the reason that's strong or a strategic focus for us is to get more into those higher-end engineered products. As I said, get sticky with the customers, get involved early, get our engineers out there designing our product into their overall program, and then staying on that for decades.
This is the kind of picture of that process of, you know, from concept to prototype to low rate production into full production. You can see that across those end markets, aerospace and defense, that's a much longer cycle. So once you get in early with them, you're gonna have a good picture of what your revenues are, your business growth opportunities over a long period of time, when you're in with those customers. As you move down to the lower end, where you're in consumer products and what have you, you know, you might win one this year, but then they redesign next year or in a couple of years, and you might be designed out of it, so.
Or in some of those areas, we're just building to print, so no real value that we're adding with our engineering technology and what have you. So try to and move more to the right end of this scale, where we're embedded with our customers more. Our global footprint is a differentiator for us. We have 18 North America operations, so from a PCB manufacturer, by far the largest PCB manufacturer in the U.S. The color differentiation here, the green primarily serve commercial markets, and the orange are the A&D markets. So you can see all of our A&D work obviously is done in the U.S. or the North America plants. And then Asia, we've got some plants that in the U.S. are used for kind of design and prototyping.
Once you get to large rate production, that moves over to our Asia footprint. We have five factories in China, and we've opened one in Malaysia, which is the next chart. We made the strategic decision to invest in a state-of-the-art very automated high technology manufacturing site in Malaysia to give an option from mainland China. Some of our customers were demanding that, others were starting to ask about it, so we needed to offer that due to the geopolitical concerns going on with mainland China and how that plays out over the next few years. So we now have you know invested in and stood up a full new manufacturing site. It was brought online as of the end of last year.
We're currently involved in going through qualification testing and certification on part numbers for key suppliers or key customers that helped us invest in this facility and are going to put product out there. Another footprint, acquisition or augmentation that we're going through right now is Syracuse. This was announced a few months ago and just broke ground, I think in June or July. This is to address higher end, more high volume, Ultra HDI product that the U.S. government is going to need in the next coming 18-24 months. So we've got a few major customers that are signaling the demand here.
We've been doing prototyping and small production at some of our facilities for this product, but when that gets to the higher scale, higher rate demand, we're gonna have the need for a purpose-built facility for that, so we've broken ground there. It is on the same campus as an existing site that we have in Syracuse that does assembly. This would be a PCB factory, and then may feed the other facility as well as straight into customers. But this is going to give us another, you know, another high-value entry into the A&D market. Last pillar there is just discipline, operational execution, earnings power, and then cash flow generation, managing our financials very well. So this is just a history of where we've been.
Annual revenues as well as annual operating margin. You can see the operating margin kind of peaked and went down, has kind of been flat over the few years. Some of that has been due to you know just the market you know realities. I mean, mobility, as I mentioned, we had to get out of that market. We were just you know, it just wasn't profitable for us once we got out of Apple and the Huawei business went away. So we sold that. We closed some underperforming business sites in 2022, 2023. And now we have line of sight towards what our target is here. Our target top line growth over the long term, 4-6% top growth year over year. Our target operating margin is 11-13%.
So you saw in that chart, you know, on an annual basis, we've been about 9%. A couple of quarters last year, we were above 10%. And so we know that there's a path towards 11%-13%, as long as we execute and we get through some of these strategic decisions that we've made. So, EBITDA margin would then be 4% above that, 15%-17%, with CapEx still at 4%-5% of overall revenue, from our strong cash generation. This is that bridge, kind of just taking you from just below 9% in our last fiscal year, showing you how we believe we can get to 11%-13%.
Plant closures, as I mentioned, we did close three American plants, one Asia plant last year, and we're probably 50%-60% of the way through transitioning that product to other U.S. plants. And we'll... That'll generate a, you know, 100 basis points. The cost recoveries is really just being able to price in some of the inflationary costs that we've seen, cost growth that we've seen over the last couple of years, especially in the A&D market, which, as I showed you, had that longer life cycle, so it takes a little bit longer to price in the product, or price in the profit into the product.
Incremental revenue is really as a, the kind of the takeaway box at the bottom says, this bridge does rely upon some of those commercial end markets like auto, MI I, coming back up to where they were maybe a couple of years ago, in networking, once they get through their inventory, depletion and get, you know, start building to demand again. The Penang plant here shows about 1%, it's actually running about 160 basis points, 170 basis points of headwind force right now. So that'll drive about 1.7%, once we get to breakeven, and then even more than that, once we get up to, you know, the margins that we do expect there. We're projecting that to happen later half of next year, to when we get there.
So that's a big, big headwind right now, probably the largest piece of the pie. And again, it's, it's execution that we need to get there, get through the qual testing and, and start driving revenue. The Telephonics synergies is just, the tail end of, getting through the synergies of that acquisition, which occurred in twenty twenty-two. The only thing that's probably left there is a little bit more, continued, refinement of the supply chain and our supply chain management in that area. You know, especially defense as a whole, has kinda struggled with supply chain since COVID. You know, we as a company that acquired Telephonics, just needed to build a, manufacturing team to manage those relationships and manage that supply chain.
We're getting very, very close to kind of maximizing that, and recognizing the full synergies that we had put in our buy plan for that. So again, all of this well within our control, except for maybe that incremental revenue on the commercial side, but that's probably the smaller piece of this. The rest we can we see, you know, our ability to do that, and that'll drive you up to about those 13% operating margin. Just a picture of our cash flows. Our goal is to get to 10% of cash flows from revenue, which allows us to then make capital expenditures of 4%-5%, which manages maintenance and growth.
Our CapEx has been a little bit high over the last couple of years because of Penang, but it'll level out again going in the next couple of years. Capital structure is very strong right now. We actually just did reprice our Term Loan B, saved another 50 basis points, but we have nothing maturing into 2028 on our Term Loan B, and then our notes mature beyond that. So, our leverage is about 1.45 right now. Our goal there is one or 1.5 to two. I think we're at 1.4 as of the end of Q2. So, good, strong balance sheet and room there if we need to borrow.
From capital allocation strategy standpoint, as I mentioned, we're investing in our differentiation in our engineering as well as our footprint. We've got those two sites that we've spent money on, and we've got to get them up and running. Repay debt till we're less than our 2%. So currently, we're not going to be doing any repaying of our debt because our leverage is below our targets. And then returning capital to shareholders. So we do have a current share buyback program. We've been active in the market, especially through Q2. We bought enough shares to buy down the dilution that came from our insider share vesting, so. But it will continue to return capital to shareholders when opportunistically. Going forward, more of the same.
So continue to our focus on the diversified end markets and our global footprint, invest in RF and advanced technology capabilities, and then engaging with our customers early, and then continuing to have solid financial management with our strong balance sheet, our low debt level, and generating cash flow so that we can continue to focus on return to shareholders or investing internally. That's the end of my chart, so I can open it up to Q&A. Got a few minutes.
Hi, in A&D, the backlog you talked about, is that all subassemblies or assembly systems, or some of that PCB as well?
Some of that's PCB as well. It's a mix, but the PCB backlog is generally only, you know, 60- to 90-day turn, and so the majority of what's in that number is really the integrated electronics. Like I said, that's that number is gonna play out over the next couple of years. So if you look at, like, the 90-day spend versus, take that out, the rest is gonna be longer term. Anything else? That was all very clear then. Good. Sure.
Just on the margin side-
Yep.
-that the only element of that getting to, what was it, 13?
Yep.
It's like four hundred basis points of margin improvement that was tied to volume recovery. Was that, like, 100 basis points out of that 400 ?
I think volume was 70. Right, so that's kind of the incremental revenue. What else would you put into volume? I mean, I guess, you know, Penang is volume, but it's, yeah, it's, you know, we have a factory right now that's just, it's all built, it's incurring all of its fixed costs, it's depreciating, we've got CapEx, operating expenses there. Every incremental revenue dollar there is going to start generating. But yeah. Yeah, I mean, you can put that into volume, but it's just, it's a startup factory, so it's going to get there.
The plant closures have already happened.
Yeah.
Cost recovery, like, you know, pricing has gone through. Revenue, obviously, that you're waiting on. Maybe just the timing of the synergies and then the-
Sure
ramp of the plant.
Yeah, I think timing of the synergies, by the end of this year, I think we're going to be mostly done with that. We're going to get through that. And then ramping up the Penang plant, as I said, I think we're expecting breakeven by the middle of next year now. And then beyond that, it'll get up to, you know, the kind of the average revenues of the company or average margins. So, you know, breakeven point saves us, you know, a hundred and seventy basis points from where we are now, gives us that back. And then when you get to, you know, low teens of operating margin, it's going to get even better, right? So, I mean, you know, you're going to get most of the way from nine to thirteen, just getting Penang up to a, you know, regular operating margin.
Does that PCB that goes into the F-35 the same as the PCB that goes into commercial markets, or is there anything different about how it's built, or qualification, or complexity, or-
Yeah. I mean, all of our PCBs are really, you know, individually designed, right? I mean, there's not a high level of commodity stuff here. But, you know, you touched on a point there. The key thing in the aerospace and defense industry is the level of qualification it has to go through, and the rigor, and the reliability that you have to build into that. Because especially if you're sending something to space or you're using it for something to protect our nation or protect our war fighters, you don't want it to fail, right? It's not as important if your phone fails, you go buy a new one. But if, you know, something that these guys rely on, a weapon system or, you know, communication device, within a...
You know, with one of our, our strategic assets, you don't want that to fail and lose lives. So it's the rigor that it goes through for testing is higher. I would say, too, that the technology is moving more towards high-end. Traditionally, the aerospace and defense technology was probably at maybe a few, you know, few ticks behind where the commercial market was. Because of that reliability, you want to use trusted, and known, technology. But as I mentioned, that Syracuse, building that we're building for Ultra HDI product, that is getting closer to, you know, cutting-edge technology that we're using in the commercial world, and we're starting to do that in higher volume for the U.S., for the Defense System Department.
Just what is the payback timing on that Syracuse facility?
Yeah, I mean, I think, you know-
Or targeted returns, like, how do you think about that $100 million?
I mean, when we look at the ROI on our investments, we generally are looking for a, you know, payback period in less than three years. So... Mm-hmm, you're welcome. Sure.
How different is the competitive set within the Ultra HDI versus PCB?
Are you asking kind of low-end PCB versus high-end, or are you asking more-
High-end PCB-
Defense versus commercial?
Maybe first defense, and then I understand commercial is primarily Asian players are there. There's certainly other local-
Yeah
... PCB manufacturers for defense.
So if you're talking about more defense and U.S.-based PCB market, we are a dominant player in the U.S.-based PCB. We're the largest by far. Number two is much smaller than us. Our main competitors there are oftentimes embedded within the prime contractors or our customers, whether they want to do it themselves. So it's a make-buy decision, whether they do it themselves or buy it from us. On the Ultra HDI end, on the very high-end technology, I think because of our capability and our years of experience here and our engineering knowledge, there's not a lot of competition there, especially for providing this to the government.
Which is why we've got very strong support for and good belief that we'll be able to fill this factory, when the demand comes, and because we're one of the, you know, one of the only guys who can do it. So I think that might be the end. We got 30 seconds left, unless there's one quick one.
What's your capacity?
So we do show that in our earnings presentation deck. It's about 65, 64%, I think, in Asia Pacific, and it's maybe in the 30s or 40s in North America. It's more meaningful in Asia Pacific, and because the way that we measure it is not as applicable to the quick turn, higher mix work that we do in North America. So you don't want a North America facility to be 60, 70, 80% utilized because we get more money for a quick turn product that comes in and says, "Hey, I need this in a few weeks," or whatever. And so we charge them accordingly.
But we need room in the factory to be able to throw those in and get that done. And then I think in the Asia Pacific, that mid-sixties is good. Right now, there's one factory that's really at full capacity because it's doing a lot of the generative AI stuff. So, but that's kind of the average for the whole region. Okay. Thank you.