Thanks for everyone for joining. This is the Visa session. My name is Tien-tsin Huang. I follow the payments and IT services sector here at J.P. Morgan, and wouldn't be a conference without Visa. We're lucky to have Jack Forestell, the Chief Product and Strategy Officer, back with us. He was here last year. I really enjoyed the conversation, learned a ton, and I know he's been in really busy. For those that don't know, Jack joined Visa in 2014. He was Group President of Value-Added Services, and Global Head of Merchant and Acquirer Solutions, and prior to that, he was at Capital One. I know he's been real busy. Visa Payments Forum took place last week. They announced a bunch of new products, so hopefully we'll get to go through that.
We won't geek out and talk too much about it, I hope, but if I had time, we would do that. But welcome, Jack. Thank you for being here.
Huang, thanks for having me. It's great to be back. It's a great conference, so happy to be here-
The-
A nd, I was hoping we could geek out a little bit.
Let's do it. Let's do it. I'm all about that. My kids would be embarrassed for me to say that. So before we start, maybe just again, remind everyone for their benefit and my benefit, just your mandate, what you focus on with at Visa, given the title that you have.
Yeah, sure, no problem. Good morning, everybody. I'm Jack Forestell. I am Visa's Chief Product and Strategy Officer. In short, on the product side, that means my teams and I design, develop, and deliver the product roadmap for the company. And on the strategy side, we develop the corporate strategy, the business unit strategies, and the local regional strategies. We do all of that hand in glove with our engineering teams, with our sales teams, with our local regional teams, and our business unit teams.
Perfect. So before we get into the products themselves, Jack, I think it'd be helpful for us, given... 'cause Visa is such a big company, and-
Sure
We've known it for quite a while. What's the approach towards product development and how you adopt new technologies? There's so many new technologies out there. Since we're at a tech conference, I figured we'd start with that.
Yeah. Well, for us, it all starts with the marketplace and our clients. You know, not surprisingly, it starts with the marketplace and our clients. We literally have over 1,000 Scrum teams coming into work every day at Visa, and the main thing we ask them to do is to obsess about our clients and their users and the markets in which we operate. So those 1,000+ teams are constantly challenging themselves to reprioritize, rethink, "How could I adopt another technology? How could I add a feature? How could I modernize? How could I develop a new product?" So they're constantly doing that to optimize the return that we're getting on our broad-based R&D investment.
From a product perspective, I know it, you didn't just start some of these product that you announced last week-
Yeah
... at Payments Forum. So, how long did it take to develop some of these things and to actually roll it out for the public?
How long did it take? Well, as with many things in life, the answer to that is, it depends.
Okay.
I mean, certainly some things could be a relatively straightforward feature enhancement, might take us a few months, but if you start thinking about a new two-sided network value proposition, right? And we can talk about some of these things as we get into them. Click to Pay is a good example, where, you know, we need the issuing and the consumer user side to be enrolled and engaged, then we need the merchant side to be consuming the APIs. Those kinds of designs, they can take us the better part of a year or more to get the design and development work done, and then they can take even longer than that in order to get the ecosystem work done. So it really depends, Tien-tsin. It could be, could be months, could be, you know, years.
Right. I mean, there's a lot of players in the ecosystem that need to get certified and, of course, tested. So I don't... I can imagine it, it's quite a bit of effort. So, you know, we've had a lot of the players in fintech-
Yeah
A t this conference. We had Marqeta earlier, firms coming in-
Simon
R ight after you. Simon was talking quite a bit about Flex Credentials. I think he called it the most impactful or breakthrough product that he's seen in quite some time. He's a Yahoo! guy, so ... but I'll let you take that in terms of ranking or talking about what you're excited about with all the products that you launched.
Yeah, well, as you mentioned, Tien-tsin, you kind of caught me on a good week-
Yeah
W hen it comes to product news. We had our big client conference last week. We unveiled seven new and emerging products. And I'll just rattle 'em off.
Please.
And then we, you know, can maybe talk about some of them and weave it through the next 30 minutes or so. We introduced a new set of tap to features. You'll all be very used to personally tapping your phone or tapping your card. We're extending that capability to a set of new use cases. We introduced payment passkeys for digital authentication. We introduced a revamped Click to Pay experience and approach to deploying it. We introduced Pay by Bank as a brand-new payment option and network that we operate in Europe that we're bringing to the U.S. We introduced Visa Protect for account-to-account transactions.
This is a fraud management tool that takes all the capabilities that we've developed over the years and deployed to Visa card transactions and starts to apply those to the fraud problem in account-to-account transactions. We introduced Flex Credential, which Simon and Max, as you said, are great partners on and love, and we love what they're doing with it. I can talk more about that later. And then lastly, we talked a little bit about an approach that we're developing to enable unlocks of payment data for the purposes of making better shopping and better buying, better discovery experiences. We call it data tokens.
Yeah.
A lot packed in last week.
So what's the theme that you would say, Jack, across all of those?
Yeah, here's what I say, you know, forgive me for waxing nostalgic, but it was 50 years ago last month that Visa processed its first electronic authorization. I think that was the beginning of the migration from analog payments, analog money, to digital money.
Okay.
It was a long 45 years, from then until about five years ago. A long, slow process where we had to invest and invest, invest. Then we saw, over the last five years, a massive acceleration, an adoption of digital payments on the part of the consumer, on the part of the seller, on the part of our entire ecosystem. And so the thematic here is, these are products that we are designing for a digital-native world. In the past, we've had to design products and services that straddle, that hybrid, that can be used in the physical world, that can be used in the digital world.
But if you think about everything I just said, and we can get into the details of it, these all just presume digital-native behavior on the part of consumers, on the part of sellers, on the part of our whole ecosystem. So we're sort of turning the corner into fully digital, and we're gonna invest heavily in the right product set to deliver the most seamless, secure experiences, payment experiences, that we can for that world.
Yeah. No, I like the way you frame that because, you know ... Maybe we'll start with Flex Credentials-
Sure
Because that, from a digital perspective, right, everything is on demand. The consumer wants to be able to choose things, and, you know, before, the merchants are curating what you see in terms of checkout. But now, I think this sets the table for the consumer to make a decision with what they have with one point of contact from Visa.
Correct.
Am I correct? So-
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tell us why that's important?
Well, so think about how we created the ability for a user to choose how they fund a transaction using our card-based val prop in the past. Because we couldn't assume a two-way interface with a card, right? You can't talk to a card and tell it what to do. We were confined to hard-coding the functionality of a card into the credential, into the plastic itself. Credit card's always a credit card, a co-brand card's always a co-brand card, a debit card's always a debit card, a card equipped with pay in four is always a pay in four card. And then we ask the user to make a physical decision of what to pull out of their wallet at the moment of purchase. Well, in a digital world, no such constraint.
We have a two-way digital surface that is constantly and always there with the seller and with the buyer, and we can assume that. Flexible Credential takes advantage of that by saying, "We're going to give. We're gonna enable an issuer or financial institution to issue a single credential to their user at the beginning of their relationship, and we're gonna enable the financial institution and their user to configure that however they want." So imagine you go into your mobile banking app, simple controls that say, "These categories, these types of purchases, are going to be pay-in-full debit transactions. Those ones will go to my revolving line. These ones could be pay in four.
Those ones could be funded by rewards." Eventually, you can add capabilities like the initiation of account-to-account. It's a flexible chassis off of which multiple different forms of payment can hang, and we don't have to be constrained by the card form factor anymore. It's a fully digital capability. And one last thing-
Please.
You can tell I'm excited about this product. As a financial institution, we ... Because of the way things were structured in the past, you had to go through a process of continuously re-underwriting your customer. You know, Tien-tsin Huang, on day one, I give you a debit card. Maybe two years later, I wanna give you a revolving line of credit.
Right.
Now we have to have a new set of interactions around that, new card, new account, new... Gone. One credential at the beginning of the relationship can latently deliver all capabilities. We just have to let you know and engage you along the way with that very same credential, so one credential for life evolves for everything.
Perfect. So I know that that's gonna bring a lot of questions around pricing and how it goes about, but I think the big thing that I've kind of observed, and tell me if I'm wrong, Jack, is this is already in the market in some places, right, with Debit Plus.
Mm-hmm.
Conceptually, you have a buy now, pay later that can rotate into debit, into any bank account. Talking to Simon yesterday, it feels like there's a lot of movement on the ground with it already. Am I correct? This is something that is already active, you're just making it more broadly available.
Yeah. This one actually started a couple of years ago-
Yeah
I n Japan. It's another thing I love-
Please
A bout this product. So many of our products start here in the U.S. This one, we started with SMBC-
Mm
O ne of our largest clients in Japan, and they've been delivering this now for almost two years with a product called Olive in Japan. They are, I think, around 2 million new accounts into the process, so their customers are absolutely loving it. We've been working with them to develop the product, to refine the product. Affirm is about to launch the product in the next few months. You mentioned Debit Plus. They already have a Debit Plus product in the market. This is a new fit-for-purpose chassis that they're going to be able to put Debit Plus onto and build even more functionality over time.
Yeah, great one. Yeah.
And then, of course, Marqeta, a great partner with Affirm and with Visa, and I know Simon's excited about all the inbound inquiry that he's had about how he could deploy this with his, the whole rest of the Marqeta client base.
Okay.
Just lots and lots of activity around this...
Okay
I n the last year.
No, good. Like I said, I think it's a big change. So maybe let's unless there's other questions or topics on that, let's talk about Tap to Everything, I think is how-
Yeah
Y ou labeled it. And I was gonna ask the question, is that you always give this update around tap to pay. I think we get it every earnings call around how it's driven a lot more, you know, transactions on the face-to-face side, post-pandemic, including in the US. Is this gonna maybe bend the curve on more transaction penetration with this Tap to Everything concept? I-
I think it'll help. I actually think the curve's already bent.
Yep.
You know, we're outside of the U.S., we're already at about 80% of all face-to-face transactions are tap-to-pay. In the U.S., we're at about 50. I've never seen a market stall, so quite confident that we've got the terminalization in place, we've got the cards in place, the consumer behavior is coming along nicely. We, you know, we need to keep doing our work. Like, for example, transit use cases are really important to instigate the initial set of tap behaviors in some markets, so we continue to work with transit operators across the U.S. to make sure that we're covering that off. But we think the curve's probably already bent. We're already gonna get there. What we've seen is, like, we processed last year over 80 billion tap transactions. That's, like, three times more than what we processed just four years earlier.
Mm-hmm.
When users do something 80+ billion times, growing at that rate, they are telling you something. They're telling you they love this. And so what we said is, "Well, how do we take this thing that humanity loves so much, the ability to just simply tap and have this secure, seamless experience, and then deliver it to a bunch of new places? Where is there friction that we could take out using it?" So we came up with four new experiences. One is Tap to Phone, which can enable anybody with a mobile device to accept payments. Basically, takes payment acceptance and turns it into something as easy as downloading an app. Got a phone, download an app, you can start accepting payments. The second one is what we call Tap to Confirm.
You've all probably experienced disruption in a payment transaction, where someone says, "Hey, there's something going on here. I think there's some risk involved. I'm gonna send you a one-time passcode," blah, blah, blah. You know, very disruptive experience. Instead of doing that, you can just tap your card to your phone, confirm, keep going. Load, right? How often have you had to try to load a card into an app or into a card-on-file situation, and you're typing in... It's a minimum of, like, 25 numbers. It's not a good experience. Why can't you just tap your card to your device in order to load? You can now with Tap to Load . And then the last one is Tap to P2P, right?
I don't think I have you in my contacts for P2P, Tien-tsin, so if I did want to P2P, here, here we would be typing in contacts or showing each other QR codes.
Just tap it.
Why can't I just tap my card to your phone and make that payment happen like that?
Yeah.
Well, you can now.
So the enablement for all of this to take place across those four different options, what needs to happen, just to... for all of our benefit?
Yeah, I mean, the underlying use cases on our end are already there, so we can already get that done. Then it becomes a question of certification and deployment with the endpoints on either side of our network. So that's where the second chapter of that product story I was telling you starts.
Mm-hmm.
We've done our work. We're ready to go. We're ready to launch. We've got a launch schedule that's lined up by geography and test clients in different places. But, you know, it's always a process to get the last mile laid down in a two-sided network like this.
Yeah. I mean, the Tap to Phone, the tests I've seen are great. I would imagine to certify as well, that experience fits so well with value-added services in terms of risk and security. Is that the vision, Jack, around, you know, breaking into some of these newer categories and driving some new revenue streams?
Yeah, I mean, just like picking on the Tap to Phone example-
Yeah
That was one that we launched a couple of years ago. We did a big pre-certification program. Apple's been a great partner on that front.
Mm-hmm.
Last year, we processed, I think it was about 100 million Tap to Phone transactions-
Mm
Up 700% from the prior year. So yeah, once you get the flywheel spinning, and it's a great experience, we tend to really see the scale come behind it.
Okay. So one of the products you talked about was Pay by Bank.
Yeah.
Coming to the U.S., I know open banking was a big topic, of course, for Europe, but with that coming here into the U.S., what's Visa's role with that? How do you see that developing?
Yeah, Pay by Bank is... Look, it's a business we've been in for a little while now.
Mm.
We acquired a company in Europe called Tink in 2022. And it is a native pay-by-bank and open banking capability. In the ensuing two years since we've owned Tink, we have seen our payment initiation volumes in Europe grow exponentially, right? So there's clearly appetite for pay-by-bank solutions. We've always been intrigued at the complementarity of pay, pay-by-bank and card in the U.S., right? That even predates our 2022 acquisition of Tink. So as we've gained the experience with Tink, as we've refined the product, we've been working behind the scenes to create the foundations for deploying it here. That includes bank connectivity, that includes agreements with banks and processors to make sure that we've got high-quality ability to authenticate customers and link back into them. We've signed some pilot customers, and now we're ready to go and launch a pay-by-bank service.
What that means, by the way, is, you know, imagine the trust and the reliability, the security, everything that we build into a Visa transaction, including the branding of Visa that surrounds it, in a very simple digital experience that you'll encounter, in certain vertical use cases, where your seller is going to say, "Hey, would you like to pay by bank, facilitated by Visa?" It'll be as simple as clicking that button, authenticating with your bank, and the payment will happen.
So the natural investor question that I will get from that is, you're feeding the beast of Pay by Bank, and it's an option away from card. You're talking about it being complementary, so can you elaborate on that?
Yeah.
Is this incremental?
I mean, there's a big user base of Visa cards out there that loves using their cards, and there's a big base of sellers that love accepting it. They love the quality of the transaction, the pull-through rates. We're pretty confident that that is all in good shape, and that's what we've seen in Europe, too, by the way. This has been going on for quite a while. What we see, though, is there are these stubborn categories. Think about loan payments, rent payments, life insurance, healthcare-
Mm-hmm
L ong-term care, education. Big, chunky, tend to be larger tickets, lower velocity payments, where, yes, there's some degree of card acceptance, but the penetration rate is relatively low, and ACH is the dominant form of online or electronic payment today. That ACH transaction is just a bad transaction.
Right.
It's full of friction, it's got fraud problems, and we think we can take that friction away. We think we can provide a safer and more secure, more seamless transaction and add to the overall volume and help our financial institution partners, our seller partners, deliver a better experience right alongside cards.
Right. So this is the powered by, branded by Visa idea. Okay, great. Thanks for going through that. So just going through down the list then, e-com, of course, Click to Pay, always a lot of investor interest around-
Yep
A round e-com. So, give us a little bit more. We just did a survey, Jack. I don't know if you saw it, and I think we still found around 30% of the market is still guest checkout. So it's-
Yeah
A s mature as people think it is, it feels like there's still a lot of white space. So how does Click to Pay change that or, or drive up the penetration?
I mean, the good news is years ago, we would've said... We would've been sitting here saying it was 70%.
Right.
You know, we're kind of cornering it.
Right.
But you're absolutely right. There is too much friction still to this day in e-commerce, and I would say that the friction is there for two reasons.
Okay.
One, we don't know who you are in e-commerce, right? Two, even if we do know who you are, we force you into a position of manually key entering a bunch of data. It's kind of as simple as that. Now, think about how we solved that first problem, we don't know who you are, in the physical world. It's a relatively elegant solution, and we said, "We're gonna give you a payment credential. We're going to put a chip on a card with tokenization, cryptography on it, that makes that card unique, and it's bound to the credential. Then we're gonna take this thing, and we're gonna get it to you, right?
We'll deliver it to your home, or you'll come into a branch and pick it up and demonstrate your ID, and as such, we know you are in possess..." So we've linked your identity, hard-coded, we linked that identity to the possession of the card with the tokenization on the card and a credential. The act of doing those things, bringing together the identity, the tokenization, and the credential, virtually eliminated fraud and friction in the face-to-face environment. In the online environment, we haven't been able to do it, and the missing link has been the identity.
Right.
We've got the credential, we've got the tokenization, we just couldn't link identity until now, and I mentioned a product that we launched last week. It's called Visa Payment Passkeys, and what it does is takes the native biometric capabilities of your mobile device and uses them to bind that biometric to your credential, right? It produces a set, now I'm gonna really geek out. It produces a set, a set of passkeys-
Mm-hmm
A private key that's stored on the phone and a public key that's stored in our servers, and that enables us to validate your biometric identity, and the tokenized credential that you're in possession of wherever you show up in digital space shopping. So we're gonna go from a place of, "I don't really know who you are. I might have to do a one-time pass code. I might have to go ask you to go sign into your bank app," to, "All you're gonna need to do is a simple facial recognition or thumbprint biometric recognition on your phone, and you're good to go." So that's number one.
Mm-hmm.
Really excited about how passkeys are going to simplify identifying users. Two, the forcing you to manually key enter the information, we are taking a different approach to deploying Click to Pay around the world. In the past, you've seen versions of Visa Checkout where we might interrupt a checkout flow. You might be in the middle of, you know, buying your pizza, and like, "Hey, attention, could you actually just sign up? You know, put in your name, address, your card number.
Right.
It breaks the flow. It and no e-commerce merchant really wants to see that. We're right now, teams around Visa all over the world are working with our bank partners to pre-enroll, bulk enroll millions and tens of millions, hundreds of millions of users around the world. We're making Click to Pay a feature, a built-in feature out of the box of a Visa credential, so that you're just enabled by default, and when you show up to a merchant that takes it, you're gonna be able to do that biometric, execute that biometric, and then just flow straight into an experience where your payment credential, your shipping address is all pre-populated. So we're really excited about both the combination of passkey and Click to Pay. We're piloting in Europe.
We're seeing multi-hundred basis points lifts in our transaction success rates and significant reductions in fraud, so good stuff all around.
Right, so you're binding all of this to the phone-
Mm-hmm
A nd of course, authenticated through the biometric. So you just said it there, Jack, you should see lower fraud from this, correct?
We are absolutely seeing lower fraud from this.
Right, and so the idea was, you know... I'm just trying to think relative to before, you can't cheat the reality that whether it's on iOS or Android, none of that matters, right? It's really bound to the phone.
Yeah, yeah, and I should say this is all built on a set of open identity standards. It's called the FIDO standard, Fast Identity Online, that we've adopted, that's supported by all the major operating system and all the major browsers. So deployable everywhere.
Okay, good. So, not to ... Just as you're talking about this, I know there's always partners you have to work with to get everything off the ground-
Yeah
A nd integrated, and talking to a lot of different players in the ecosystem. The issuer processors are important, the merchant acquirers are important, of course, the issuers are important in a four-party model. Tell us about this Pismo acquisition.
Ah.
I don't think we've, you know, you and I have talked about it exactly, and it, it's going a little bit closer to the bank core processing side, as well as just an issuer capability, which I think gives Visa a little bit more control to drive, innovation and change at the, at the edge, as they say. But you tell us, what's the thesis of Pismo?
Yeah, that's ... It's, it's a really fun one. And like everything we've been talking about, whether it's passkeys or tap to, or Click to Pay auto-enrollment, or the flex credential itself and digital instant issuance, all these things, all of those capabilities are capabilities that our financial institution bank partners absolutely need. And what we find is they absolutely want them, and many of them are incredibly sophisticated and actually have already built those capabilities on their own, but many of them aren't.
Right.
Many of them need a little bit of help. What we were finding is, as we're trying to deploy these capabilities, our issuer partners needed help on the issuer processing end. You'd often find that even if you had a really savvy issuer processor, like a Marqeta, the underlying core ledger in the bank wasn't capable of integrating with these new capabilities. We set out to find a capability that we could offer our partners that not only could provide them the digital issuer processing capabilities out of the box, but if needed, 'cause could also back up and provide a microservices-based, cloud-hosted, modern core banking infrastructure, 'cause that's where we see banking infrastructure going in the future. We found this little company in São Paulo, Brazil.
Mm-hmm
C alled Pismo, that had built the most state-of-the-art core banking infrastructure and issuer processing infrastructure. We closed the deal in January. We couldn't be happier. It is ... You know, the idea is that we're taking that Pismo asset, that team, that capability, and immediately integrating into Visa and bringing in an offer to the whole world. It happens to be based in Brazil. We've got a lot of great clients in Brazil. We love that business in Brazil, but the idea here is much bigger. The idea here is to take that capability and really bring it under the Visa umbrella, and use our distribution and our connectivity to really scale it and distribute it. So we're excited about it.
Right. So the intention is not a local solution. This is-
New
G lobal.
No, no. That's right.
Okay. No, it's fun. I think it's, it's a change, but yeah, and I know that side is harder to, you know, to innovate. There hasn't been as much change as we've seen on the, on the merchant side, but I would think there's a lot of opportunity to change the foundation in developed worlds, but it also could... or in developing, but it sounds like it could also apply to the developed side.
Yeah, absolutely. Think about where banks are in terms of their digitization journeys and the conversion of their own infrastructure. It is a common problem, whether it's an emerging market or a mature market, whether you're a medium-sized bank, large bank, small bank, fintech, they all have the same issues, so.
Okay. So Pismo is fun. Think of, you know, so in your role as a strategy officer, and M&A, of course, has got to be a part of that.
Yeah.
Update us on the scope of things that Visa would be interested in buying versus building.
Well, I'm also the Chief Product Officer-
Yeah
S o I'd always rather build it.
You're biased to build, I would imagine.
But, like, we can't, you know, at our scale, and given what we you know the waterfront that we cover, we're never going to have all of the ideas, and we're never going to get out of the gate as fast as some of the great innovators out there. So we can't always build it, we know that. We're gonna sometimes need to buy it. So we're constantly looking at the entire business. We look at the consumer business, which tends to get a little bit more geography specific. I'll come back to that in a minute. We look at the value-added services business, which tends to be more capability-driven, then we look at the commercial and money movement business, which also tends to be a little bit more capability-driven.
So we're constantly looking at the whole world, saying: "Who's got the best capabilities out there? Do they make sense for us? Could we build it ourselves?" And that's how we end up making those choices. I'll go back to the consumer business for just a minute, 'cause I just gave you an example where we made an acquisition happen in a specific geography in the world, but the intent was really to bring it out and scale it.
Right.
We made another recent. It's a joint venture investment in Mexico, a company called Prosa.
Prosa.
That's a different nature altogether. That's one where we said: "Look, we have a specific issue where we're not able to process our own Visa transactions for a long set of reasons I won't get into, in Mexico, which means we can't bring a lot of these great digital capabilities to Mexico." It's very hard for us to deploy tokenization, and identity, and all these things. We need a path to that. And so we worked hard with a local company called Prosa, who processes transactions, to create a joint venture structure that's going to enable us to bring VisaNet processing and all these capabilities there. That one is a purely Mexican solution. It's going to help us build a business in one of the most thriving, high-growth economies in the world.
The idea there is not to bring it out, but rather to really focus on our business in Mexico. So it's a good example of, like, we've got that kind of scanning and activity going on in countries all over the world, in addition to those capability and product plays like Pismo.
Gotcha. So that solves a very specific problem with Prosa to extend more on value-added services and get more data. So that builds up another question I know we've been asking a lot of the companies around data. Of course, Gen AI is a big-
Mm-hmm
I s a big topic, but with this push towards credentials, tokenization, and digital ID, there's so much-
Yeah
D ata that Visa sits on. I mean, even the newer stuff you're talking about, growing 4x, 8x, is still gigantic by itself. So what's the data play for Visa? Has that evolved in the last year, especially in the wake of all this talk around generative AI?
Yeah. Well, we don't do anything else other than data.
Yeah.
Like, we don't make anything.
Yep.
We ingest data, we interpret it, we add value to it, and then we ship it back out the other side of the network. So we're fundamentally a data-driven network, and so it's really at our core. So everything I've been talking about so far really is rooted in data. Now, there are certainly interesting opportunities that the next generation of technology, including generative AI, might present for us. And I'll give you a couple of examples.
Please.
Our risk services business in the value-added services space, I mean, we've been deploying AI and machine learning to develop risk models for 30 years, right? We see 200 billion transactions a year. We score them all within inside of a second with hundreds of parameters using AI and ML, and we do that and defend $40+ billion worth of fraud from the network. That said, that capability, when you overlay the ability to generate synthetic data, the ability to ingest more data sources, and the ability to apply generative AI across it, we think that capability is going to get even better and more extensible, right? I mentioned on my list of products earlier, one called Visa Protect for account-to-account.
Right.
That's exactly what we've done there. We've said, "Hey, let's take that capability that we use in card. We'll use synthetic data. We'll use generative AI to take it and translate it into an account-to-account world and start defending account-to-account transactions against fraudsters.
Right.
So that's a great example. But there are other more interesting use cases. We have even more interesting use cases. We've known for a long time that our transactional data could be incredibly powerful in delivering a better shopping and buying experience for you, Tien-tsin. But we've been reluctant because we view that data as yours.
Right.
We don't want to let that data get out of your control and your oversight, and so we're introducing a new product. This is early-stage development. We'll see how it goes. But taking our tokenization technology to basically secure your data and enable you to permission it. So think about being able to show up at a platform or a seller in digital space and say, "Yeah, I'd like to opt in to getting a better discovery, a better shopping experience, using my Visa data in a secure way." Enabling that platform to then use your transactional data to build and deliver that experience while you stay in control of the data, you can revoke that permission anytime. You can manage all of that inside your mobile banking app.
Those are the kinds of things that we're working on and thinking about when it comes to the next generation of data play for Visa.
Yeah, it's almost like a passport of data that you can bring with you-
Exactly
A nd traverse across different environments, what you're talking about. Okay, yeah, we only have, what, 30 seconds left? I know we talked about a lot. Time flew by. I have more questions, but yeah, so you know, if we're lucky enough to have you back next year, and we're thinking about some of these products, what should we be studying, and what do you think is worth digging deeper into what we've talked about?
Yeah, I... Look, we're, we're continuing to invest in, in what I talked about in the beginning, which is the next generation of products to enable digital. We talked about seven of these. We've got more in the hopper.
Mm-hmm.
We haven't had a chance today to talk about what are we doing in emerging markets to actually help really start to cover the long tail of consumers and sellers. We've got some good stuff in the pipeline there, so maybe next year we'll talk a little bit about some of that.
Perfect. Thank you for the time, Jack.
All right.
Always enjoyed it. Thanks, everyone, for tuning in.
Thank you.