Okay, happy to get started here. We're excited to have Visa, Chris Newkirk, who's the Global Head of New Flows, Commercial and Money Movement Solutions. I'm Brian Keane. I cover the payment processors and IT services at Deutsche Bank. And so we're excited to get to all these questions I have for Chris. So Chris, maybe you could just start and give us a little bit about your background. We were just talking about that, and then I know you were Chief Strategy Officer, and now as kinda Global Head of New Flows.
Yeah. Great. Well, Brian, thanks so much for having me, and thanks everyone here and online for joining. Really excited to be here. So yeah, so I joined Visa a little bit over four years ago, Brian, as you said, as Chief Strategy Officer, which was a little bit of a new role for me to play in my career, and I'll sort of come back to that. But as Chief Strategy Officer, you know, my job was to really focus on connecting as a longtime operator, which is what I was for fifteen, eighteen years before Visa. And what I am once again, was to really connect our strategy to our execution all around the world.
And I looked after strategy, interchange and pricing globally, at Visa, and our regional products and solutions teams, which is a sort of, think of that as a technical sales force that does, pre-sale, sales, and then post-sale solutioning for, our products and solutions with our clients all around the world. That team actually, mostly is in the sort of consumer payments and value-added services space. So that was my first, I don't know, two, two-plus years, at Visa, and it was, honestly, it was a great way to get deeply into the breadth, of all we have to offer at Visa.
And then, for about the last year and a half, with our CEO transition, one of the changes, Brian, you know, that Ryan made, was to take our strategy, which has three pillars to it: consumer payments, new flows, and value-added services, and to have, you know, P&L owners, and really dedicated leadership, reporting directly into Ryan, driving new flows and value-added services. And I took the new flows role. So I lead new flows at Visa, which the short version is, you know, it's everything we're doing in payments and money movement globally, beyond consumers paying merchants with, you know, consumer credit, debit, and prepaid cards. So there's a large B2B component to that, and then there's a whole other set of payouts to shorthand the capabilities there.
I'm super excited about new flows, and I think it's honestly the most exciting, part of what we have, going on at Visa, and I'm really excited to talk about that here. But to just round out your question about my background, prior to Visa, I spent fourteen years as a P&L leader in financial services across consumer, small business, and commercial. Mostly in cards, payables, and a little bit in banking, and twelve of those years before joining Visa, I was at Capital One, where I was one of five P&L leaders reporting to the Capital One CEO, leading, small business and consumer cards, small business banking, a little bit of wealth management in the U.S., the U.K., and Canada. So I, was a Visa client for a very long time.
It's part of why I came to Visa, was to, you know, so excited about the opportunities in front of us. And prior to that, I started my career in consulting at McKinsey, doing financial services, technology, and data services in the U.S. and U.K.
Got it. You got a couple McKinsey guys at your guys' shop.
We do. Ryan and I worked together back in the McKinsey days, and it's really fun to be back together again.
Nice. So, you know, the big question that we get from investors is trying to think about the long-term growth, you know, the for Visa. Like, how the growth is gonna work. Obviously, new flows is gonna be a huge part of this. It was a robust 18% in the third quarter and accelerated about four points from 14% in the second quarter. So I guess, first, what drove that acceleration that we're seeing in new flows, and what is the target of new flows revenue growth? Is it? Can it be 20%+ grower?
Yeah. So, let me just go back to the sort of the growth algorithm, you know, for the company. So it's, you know, we've got a like a beautiful consumer payments business, and we're counting, you know, one-- that's one pillar, and we're really counting on new flows and value-added services to drive growth above the growth rate of the consumer payments business. And we've got a lot of conviction that, you know, we'll be able to do that, you know, now and well into the future. If we, you know, think about the sort of the components of that in new flows, now to drill into new flows, we've got a sort of a commercial business that's, you know, B2B payments, Visa Commercial Solutions, which are... You can think about that as both a carded business.
I put sort of air quotes around, you know, carded, 'cause really a lot of that is virtual payables, business. And the... We'll get to the revenue in a second, but if we look at the underlying drivers of the commercial business, you know, we've seen fairly stable growth this year in terms of the, payment volume on that commercial business of sort of 7%-8%, over the, the first three quarters of this fiscal year. And, we're, you know, very excited about the continued growth, of that, of that commercial business and the opportunity we have to penetrate what's really a massive TAM, massive market opportunity in B2B flows.
The rest of the new flows business is the sort of Visa Direct and cross-border capabilities that we have, that are going after a wide variety of money movement, for lack of a better term, money movement use cases, which can be anything ranging from P2P, both domestically and cross-border, aka remittances, to disbursements and payouts of all kinds, whether they're kind of large business to micro-business, business to consumer, could be insurance payouts, gig economy payouts, earned wage access payouts, or government or development bank, humanitarian organization, NGO payouts to small businesses and/or consumers.
And that Visa Direct business, again, if you look at the drivers, we've seen very strong transaction growth throughout the year, 20% in the first quarter, more than 30% in the second quarter, more than 40% in the third quarter. And, you know, I think that's a testament to continuing not only to issue new use cases, but to really deepen the penetration of our existing use cases in that business. And if I come back to the, to the revenue that you described, we were, you know, single digit revenue growth for new flows in Q1, as you said, 14% year-over-year growth on constant dollar basis in Q2, 18% in Q3.
You know, with respect to the Q2 to Q3, you know, the Q1, I think we've already described as, you know, essentially one-timers that occurred in Q1. And when it comes to the acceleration from Q2 to Q3, the reason I started with the drivers, as we see, I think, strength and stability in the underlying drivers with respect to how that materializes as, you know, revenue, there can be sort of lumpiness and mix shifts in that. And I think you also asked about, sort of future expectations. I would just reiterate that we have a lot of conviction in the new flows business ability to grow, revenue, stronger and on a sustained basis above consumer payments. We've not provided, guidance, on that, actual growth rate or target growth rate.
Got it. Yeah. In my head, I'm thinking 20% potential. You know, the other question that we get often when you talk about new flows is the yields-
Yeah.
Because the yields are gonna be a little bit lower. Can you just talk about what you see in current yields and then the opportunity to grow them?
Yep. So, yeah, we don't disclose new flows revenues and therefore new flows yields. But maybe the way to help you think about it is, again, if we sort of oversimplify it to the commercial solution side of the business and the Visa Direct and cross-border solution side of the business. In the commercial side, you know, to sort of a first approximation, the yields look a lot like the yields in our consumer business. On the Visa Direct side, you know, a way to think about that is when we look at yields on a per transaction basis, they're really comparable to the yields we get in the data processing across all of Visa's business. So, you know, we like not just the yields of the business, but the margins of the business.
Most of the Visa Direct business, the overwhelming share of transactions in the Visa Direct business, ride VisaNet infrastructure, where we've got, you know, massive scale, very good operating costs, et cetera. And so we- while there's a sort of a portfolio of yields and pricing in the Visa Direct business that, you know, come together, we really... It's, it's all very attractive at the end of the day in terms of driving revenue at attractive margins, for us in our own.
Yeah, I was just thinking about that. The margins, because if you're riding on the network, it's not like you're starting a new business where it would be much lower at a loss. You're already using, riding it on the network you have.
Absolutely.
You can scale it that way.
Yeah. I mean, that's one of the beauties of building this business inside, this new flows business inside of Visa, is, you know, we built a lot of what Visa Direct rides on is, as you know, the Visa Debit, VisaNet capability, where years ago we made, you know, the technology investment to enable essentially flows to go, you know, multi-direction on that, not just from a consumer to a merchant, but from a consumer to a consumer, or to a merchant to a merchant, or a merchant to a consumer, et cetera, to really get to enable those flows to be multi-directional.
And so yeah, we do ride the benefit of doing all of this new flows work inside of Visa, with Visa cybersecurity, Visa scalability in terms of transaction handling per second, risk and fraud capabilities that we can add on top of those Visa Direct transactions. Distribution, you know, we have, you know, 14, 15 thousand bank partners globally and, you know, thousands of fintech partners, et cetera, and we get to leverage that distribution, the brand, the trust. It gives us, like, the right to play and be in this conversation, and then do it in a way where we can do it at really attractive margins while we're growing a new business that's still in its very early, and I think, exciting days.
So all the peers talk about new flows in the commercial market as growth opportunities. So I was hoping you could just talk about how Visa differentiates its strategy and its assets versus the peers and new flows.
Yeah. Well, rather than do like a direct compare or contrast, maybe I can just tell you why we have conviction that we're gonna continue to succeed and grow this business really strongly, based on both looking in the rearview about what's worked and about, you know, what what's gonna come to market. So I guess I'd outlined, Brian, a few, you know, a few factors that lead to that conviction. First, it's just like the staggering, like the breathtaking size of the opportunity of the market that we're going after. So we recently resized this. We've, you know, we've shared this publicly. You know, in the markets that we operate in, there's $200 trillion of flows that we're going after in the new flows business. You know, I don't know, numbers sometimes get so big, it's like...
It's really, like, hard to make sense of intuitively. Like, so how big is $200 trillion? I mean, other than just saying, like, it's really, really big, I mean, some of the things that I think about. All right, so last year, federal income tax revenues in the U.S. were, like, $4.5 trillion, give or take, right? So that's like an annual kind of flows number, $4.5 trillion. So the, the, the TAM that we're going after is, whatever, 44 times, the size of, you know, U.S. federal government revenue. It's like a massive. I just use that as kind of one benchmark. You know, a second would be just in terms of how big the opportunity is.
You know, as you know, we did, you know, $1.6 trillion of commercial volume last year, in new flows. I mean, there are a lot of doublings to be had of that business and still be in the, you know, kind of single digit, high single digit share of the opportunity. So, look, there's a massive opportunity. That's number one. Number two, then when you actually get into the user experience, like the end user experience in those flows, whether they're B2B or any of the other types of flows that, you know, we're gonna talk about, and the user experience, frankly, is not that good on average, by and large, in these flows. That's particularly true in the B2B context. So there's $200 trillion of flows.
$145 trillion of that is B2B, and $55 trillion is, you know, the other sets of kind of disbursement, payout, P2P, push payments, payouts. In the $145 trillion of B2B, you know, go spend time with, like, the, you know, the function inside your company that is doing buyer-supplier payments, and you will just, you know, you might be surprised at how much manual work is still going on there, and it's so vastly different than how good sort of core consumer banking and payments experiences are, you know, thanks to Visa and our partners and, you know, who've really done an amazing job bringing really slick consumer experiences to the consumer payments experience. That hasn't happened yet at scale in B2B, and it's absolutely going to happen.
We're gonna see a consumerization, what I would describe as a consumerization of those B2B flows. It's gonna be mobile first. It's gonna be much simpler and much more empowered, but there are big problems to solve there in terms of, you know, why don't those flows work very well today, well, there's different kinds of data reconciliation. I've got to match an invoice to a payment. I've got to match a payment to an invoice that I sent out. All those data flows need to work, et cetera, so we can talk more about that, but so number one was massive opportunity. Number two, or massive TAM, number two is, you know, that there's, you know, real problems to be solved.
There's major advances to be made in the digitization of those payments to make them seamless and simple for end users, and that's totally core to what Visa has done in the past and will continue to do in the future. So if I go to number three reason to believe, is the product market fit we have with our solutions in the market today. So in the B2B space, you know, we have a powerful set of solutions in market today, and then, and we'll continue to innovate behind those to solve problems in the B2B space. We've got you know, if you think about what we're doing in Visa Commercial Solutions, the growth strategy sort of shares a lot in common with the consumer payments growth strategy that we've talked to you about. Fundamentally, it's about getting, you know, growing credentials, growing acceptance, and driving usage.
The way you do that in the B2B space, though, has to be differentiated from what happens in the consumer space, and so we have B2B solutions that we offer on the issuance side to grow credentials, so we have a payables automation platform. We have a virtual commercial payables platform. What those two platforms enable our clients to do is either the bank issuer client manage the capability to issue virtual credentials to their clients that provide control, transparency, data reconciliation in those B2B flows, or to allow our clients to give that power to their end users, and what's so powerful about that in these virtual payables is what you can solve for is, like, look, a business owner is different than a consumer, right? Or a business client is different than a consumer client. There are different user types, right?
There's the business owner, there's the bookkeeper, or the, you know, treasury function. There are field salespeople. And, for B2B payments to work more seamlessly, those different users need different sets of capabilities. And so what our commercial payables platform and virtual payables platform enable our clients to do, and their clients to do, is to issue a virtual payable credential with totally customizable and configurable controls around that. So you might give your field salesperson, you know, the ability to spend a limited amount at a limited set of, you know, endpoints like, I don't know, hotels and restaurants, quick service restaurants, if they're on the road doing sales. You might issue a single-use credential that's only for use to pay a particular invoice with reconciliation back to the buyers and suppliers that payment's been made.
So the ability to meet the needs of different users in the B2B space context is I think what's gonna really transform B2B payments over the next kind of five, eight, ten years, and so we're very much focused on bringing our solutions to market, and this is my long way of telling you, like, number three, we've got solutions that fit, but equally on the acceptance side, we have solutions that enable Visa Accounts Receivable Manager, which we've launched in the U.S. and will roll out to the rest of the world, enables the acceptor of the virtual credential to automate the acceptance of that virtual credential, to, like, pull the virtual credential, match it to the invoice, straight- through process the payment, and then, again, feed back into their ERP or whatever their platform is, that that's been paid out.
So sorry, number three, you know, reason to believe is that we've got, you know, really good product market fit for our solutions. And then number four, I actually touched on, which is the ability for us to leverage all of Visa to grow this business in a way that is, you know, highly efficient and effective. We've got distribution, we have the relationships, we have, you know, sales force in the market all around the world that we can leverage. We have Visa technology that we can either just reuse or we can, like, slightly repurpose or recombine in new ways. And that's, you know, an incredible privilege and a real sort of advantage.
And so while we've got certainly, like, more work to do, and we've got, you know, an ambitious product roadmap to continue to build and ship solutions that really resonate with the market, while we've got, you know, work to do, I think we've come a long way in terms of lighting up the frontline of Visa to go after new flows. You know, our teams have had to come up learning curves and have conversations about products and solutions that are... You know, they're different, and some of them are different and more complicated than sort of consumer payments use cases. But I think we've made really significant strides in terms of upskilling the, you know, our frontline at Visa. We have more work to do, and we'll continue to drive innovation, but really so much of the focus is about continued execution.
Yeah, yeah. It's definitely, I think Visa has, you know, it feels like it's an offensive strategy with new flows, but, you know, it could also be seen as defensive where it refers to competition. Lots of payment experts point to growth in A2A or account-to-account payments as a competitive threat. How do you see account-to-account payments, and what role is Visa seeing with the FedNow and other real-time payment rails?
Yeah. I guess a couple thoughts there, Brian. I mean, certainly the growth of RTP systems around the world is like a secular trend that's you know here to stay. And you know fundamentally it's about the modernization of domestic payment infrastructure, and like that's a good thing. I mean, we're in the digitization of payments business for a whole bunch of reasons, including like it's just a great place to be and a force for good in the world. And we absolutely support the growth of RTPs all around the world. I guess I'd make a couple of you know points though with respect to your question.
You know, the first is, there's more to a payments network and a payments ecosystem than the, kind of, call it the core infrastructure layer that connects one account to another account. You know, a payments network that, you know, that works for payers and payees, you know, has to have, security, scalability, you know, economic incentives and business models that work, that pull in both, payers and payees. You have to have, you know, rules that are understood by the participants, both by the sort of the providers and by their end customers, and drive value for those end users. So, you know, you can think about, for us, all that we do around fraud and security, risk management, disputes, chargeback rules, et cetera.
We, you know, we've built, you know, over time with our partners, a very robust ecosystem that, you know, you can see by all the success we've had, you know, has a network and creates that network effect. And so there's- I'm not here to make a bear case against, you know, you know, RTPs. I'm just pointing out that, like, there's more to creating a payments network than that sort of connectivity layer. And we have invested decades to build that kind of ecosystem with the well-understood practices and, you know, an economic model that works for participants and incents people to participate in our network, and, like, really breathtaking scalability, cybersecurity, fraud management, et cetera. And that's, you know, that backbone is Visa Credit and Visa debit.
And one of the beauties, and as I say in the Visa Direct business, is we're leveraging all of that investment in Visa Direct in a way that's, like, highly, highly scalable. And the growth that we see in Visa Direct is in, you know, many, many markets around the world and coexists, you know, alongside other domestic schemes. And we add value. You know, the market is telling us we add value in what we're doing with, you know, all the ways in which I described. The second thing I'd say is, we're very happy to work, and we do work with RTPs, you know, around the world. Very close to home in my business, in Visa Direct, we are connected to more than 70 domestic payment schemes, more than 10 RTP schemes.
One of the things I think that was, you know, really most important in our strategy, you know, articulated, you know, several years ago, was that to really win in this money movement universe, we needed to move beyond. We have a beautiful network, and, you know, we currently, you know, most of the volume is on our network, but to really be able to reach the last mile, we had to pursue a network of networks strategy, and so therefore we are connected to different domestic payment schemes all around the world. You know, equally in the value-added services side of the business, which obviously I don't run, you know, we found really good opportunities to add value, again, in collaboration with our bank partners to those RTP schemes.
You know, the RTP schemes, the payments are immediate, and they're, you know, not reversible. The kind of risk management and fraud systems in place, you know, they're new payment schemes, and so they attract fraud as new payment schemes often do. You know, we have proven our ability to meaningfully add value in terms of fraud and risk management. So, you know, we've talked about this. We did a pilot with Pay.UK, and we uplifted the fraud defense, fraud success rate 40 points, by taking our risk management know-how, our AI, our machine learning, the models that we've, you know, the neural net models that we've built over time, and applying them to the A2A transactions. So that's a success story we've been public about.
We've, you know, turned that into a value-added services product for RTP schemes called Visa Account- to- Account Protect. We are, you know, we're doing that also in Argentina. We're launching Visa Protect. Again, same thing, we proved our ability to add value on top of the scheme there, and, you know, we're launching in Latin America, and I think we'll continue to see that Visa Protect product grow. I guess the last thing I'd say on the, you know, on how we work with RTPs is, you know, we are. You asked specifically about FedNow. Sorry, which is what made me think of this. You know, so we're a certified service provider for FedNow. And, you know, what does that mean for our clients?
Visa has a solution called Visa Faster Payments Gateway. What that enables our clients to do is to connect once to Visa's Faster Payments Gateway and get access to multiple faster payments, like modalities. Our clients can connect to us once and send us messaging in various different, you know, formats, which we will reconcile for them, and they can leverage the Visa Direct network through the Visa Faster Payments Gateway, and they can also access the FedNow. Maybe a long way of saying, you know, we welcome the continued digitization of domestic payment schemes, and we, I think are very excited about our ability to partner in some of the ways that I've described and add value to them.
Got it. Got it. Want to drill down on Visa Direct, B2B, and cross-border, if I can fit three questions in on that. I guess first on Visa Direct, that's been a standout in growth, transactions up 41%. I think you even mentioned this, 31% from 31% and 20% the prior two quarters. So a really nice acceleration. What's resonating? What's driving that growth, and what might be some new use cases to keep that kind of growth going?
Yeah. So it is really a portfolio effect, Brian, of, you know, we have 65 use cases, we have 2,800 programs live, we have 500 enablers who, you know, help bring Visa Direct solutions to the last mile with our clients. You know, most of the transaction volume that we do today are domestic use cases. You know, what's resonating in the market? It's everything from, you know, P2P transactions to payouts for gig economy earned wage access. We've spoken about, you know, a couple of the earned wage access deals that we've struck to enable workers to get paid, you know, real-time promptly for their work when it's completed.
Marketplace payouts, so, Airbnb is a, you know, good example of that, where if you're an Airbnb host, you can go onto your account on Airbnb, and you can get an instant payout leveraging, the Visa Direct capability. So there's been a, I think, really strong adoption of a number of those sort of domestic payout use cases. Cross-border in Visa Direct, is a smaller share of transactions, but also growing very, very strongly and frankly, a really key strategic focus for us. So, you know, Q3 year- over- year, cross-border, use cases for Visa Direct almost doubled on a year-over-year basis.
That's, you know, really important for us, 'cause as we talked about, you know, yields earlier, there's more opportunity for us to add value in a cross-border transaction than in a domestic transaction and get FX attachment and, you know, drive better yields because we're adding more value to those transactions. And so we really see growth across a wide variety of use cases. And, you know, I do want to say that some of the acceleration that we saw, I think we've talked about this as well, some of the acceleration that we've seen has been like the pleasant surprise. Sometimes we get asked, like, "What's surprising you?" It's the pleasant surprise of very rapid adoption of an interoperability solution that we have in Latin America, where we connected two P2P wallets.
So that one, as you can imagine, is lower yielding. It's domestic. It's not sort of the cross-border. But you know, again, it's running on, like, Visa's scale business. So while the yield might be lower, the revenues and the margins are still really attractive to that. I think you asked me three questions, but I'm not sure I answered all-
Yeah
All three, Brian.
That was pretty close. You know, we talked. The last one was just on Horizons, but you talked about some of the cross-border opportunities. So we can move on to B2B. Commercial spend volumes were up 7% in the last quarter. I think a lot of folks are trying to figure out where we are in commercial spending in this uncertain macro environment, so I'd love to get your thoughts on that. That's one. I feel like this is an analyst call now. I'm going with a part two question.
The second part of the question is just understanding there's been some concerns about virtual cards and being higher pricing and maybe some pushback on virtual cards and cards because they have higher, you know, interchange rates in it. So maybe you could just talk about that. Are you seeing any pushback on pricing for virtual cards? So first one is just what do you think about the commercial spending volumes environment in this macro? And then also on any pushback you're seeing on virtual card acceptance.
Yeah. So, with respect to the first, yeah, I think I'd just unpack the growth rate, a little bit. So what we see, if you look U.S. versus non-U.S., for instance, in non-U.S., rest of the world international, we've seen, growth rates that continue to, in the commercial side, that continue to outperform the consumer payments growth rate, which is, you know, core to our thesis in new flows. If we look at the U.S., you know, we've seen, and we've talked about this, what others have also talked about, which is, you know, a little softness in the kind of middle large market, and more kind of steady, on the small business side.
If we sort of double-click into the U.S., what I would describe we've seen is, you know, for instance, T&E, that recovered extremely strongly after COVID. There's a lot of pent-up demand, not just on the consumer side, for people to go take vacations again and see parts of the world, but on the B2B side, for people to get out and see their clients in person. And we saw a really strong performance in T&E, and I think what we've seen recently is just more normalization there.
And then if I pull way up across U.S. and international, I'd say the same is true for cross-border in the commercial space, that we saw a very strong kind of post-COVID cross-border spend, which is, again, back to sort of normalization. That's what we're seeing in terms of kind of the macro on commercial. I'm sorry, what was the second part of your question?
On the virtual card.
Oh, on the virtual-
Yeah.
Yeah. Look, the key in B2B is to for us to be able to, you know, sell on the value that we're providing in the payment and not, you know. So the quote, "direct cost" of acceptance is just, you know, sort of one piece of the equation. I think we're having a lot of success. So go back to what I said, you know, the core strategy, you know, drive credentials, drive acceptance, drive usage. On the drive acceptance side, we're having a lot of success. Again, this is about sort of educating our frontline and then really educating our clients.
We've done third-party research, which I think is highly salient in this space, to describe really the value that we can deliver through virtual cards to buyers and suppliers who maybe today we've not done a good enough job, but I think we're doing an increasingly good job, of really explaining the full economic cost of their current buyer-supplier payment handling. When you actually take into account all the sort of manual pieces of that, the cost of trade credit, et cetera, versus what can be achieved through virtual credentials, we're doing a better and better job of articulating the value, and our clients are telling us, and their end users are telling us, that they're really finding like a high degree of salience of our virtual commercial payables.
Got it. Got it. Wanted to ask on cross-border in particular. We've been talking about that, but in particular, I was hoping you could talk about, touch on, Currencycloud and what your capabilities are there.
Yeah, Currencycloud was a was really a terrific addition to to Visa. So Currencycloud, what that brought us was a platform that had, you know, several things that were additive to what Visa does, both in our core consumer payments business and in new flows. So the two that I would highlight is really a more flexible cloud-based set of FX capabilities that enable us to offer, for instance, real-time, in my business, in the new flows business, real-time FX rates, as opposed to what we had been offering previously, which were kind of twenty-four-hour, one-day holds. And what that's enabled us to do with our partners is to offer real-time, so they can offer real-time FX in a more transparent way and grow their business.
So we've attached that Currencycloud real-time FX capability to Visa Direct. That capability is also live and attached in our core consumer payments business. So for instance, we have a service called Persistent FX, which you know allows the holding of FX from the transaction all the way through to settlement so that can be disclosed and highly predictable, and the consumer knows what they're getting, and that's. Just think about over weekends how valuable that can be. The second really core capability that Currencycloud brought to us was a set of capabilities around you know licensed payment activities in the U.S., Canada, U.K., Europe, and Australia to be able to collect. So if you think about Visa Direct, it's mostly been disbursements, push payments, et cetera, not entirely.
You know, where Visa Direct will go increasingly is, you know, pay in and pay out capabilities. And you know, some of those require, like, regulatory licenses, et cetera, which Currencycloud has brought to us. The third thing is multicurrency virtual wallet capabilities, which are highly applicable in the consumer space, but actually also applicable in the business space, to enable consumers or small business owners to, you know, have accounts in local currencies in a wide variety of currencies. We've brought that to market, as you know, with Zing and HSBC in the UK on the consumer side.
And we also have deployments on the business side that allow, for instance, a small business owner in the U.K. to collect, you know, payments in the U.S. and U.S. dollars, and then decide whether they wanna hold them there, convert, send them back to the U.K., or maybe they wanna hold dollars 'cause they have their own supplier payments to make in U.S. dollars, and they don't wanna take currency risk, et cetera. So those are the three, really core value adds. The Currencycloud, we're super excited to have the Currencycloud team on board.
Got it. So I think we have about sixty seconds.
Okay.
I wanted to wrap on just what surprised you the most in New flows as you've taken it over? What could be the kind of biggest key trends to watch over the next several years?
Yeah, I don't, I mean, I mentioned one surprise, which is just the sort of take off of one particular thing that we launched in Latin America. I think I'd say, Brian, it's less surprise. Okay, I'm gonna try to do this in forty seconds. Less surprise than validation of a thesis that, you know, that we had many, many years ago. You know, we're, we are succeeding in this business. We've, you know, validated. You know, think about like, well, someone did a PowerPoint where they said, "We could go after this kind of new flow space and look how big the TAMs are," et cetera. You know, we have proven that we have the right to play. We have, you know, a solid and growing set of solutions to win in the space.
We've got the right to play, we've got the distribution, and the scalability that I described. So it's. I would say it's much more a validation story. In terms of trends to watch, I think a couple. One is like the consumerization of B2B. What I would describe as a consumerization of B2B. Those B2B experiences, they're not great, but they're gonna be much more consumer life, mobile first, et cetera, over the years to come. Embedded finance, which, you know, just means kind of everyone talks about embedded finance.
All that means is taking a financial services transaction and embedding it, you know, in an existing user experience and meeting the users where they are, and I think those are gonna be, you know, two very, very big drivers for, you know, our growth and the improvement of the B2B space over time.
Okay, awesome. Thanks so much, Chris.
Thank you, Brian.
Thanks for doing it.
Yeah, appreciate it.