Thank you everyone for joining us on the webcast today for our 2024 Investor Day. I'm Gunnar Hansen, Head of Investor Relations here at Veeva. Please feel free to contact me if you need anything during today's event or if you have any questions in the future. Some quick notes before we begin. We have a series of presentations for the next 60 minutes or so, including comments from a customer. At the end of the presentations, we'll have a Q and A session. During the Q and A session, please submit your question through the webinar Q and A tool to enter the queue. We ask that all attendees that plan to ask questions be ready to turn on their cameras and unmute their mics when prompted. When you're getting close to the front of the queue, you will receive a prompt to enter the webinar.
As a panelist, we ask that you accept the invitation and when we announce you during Q and A, please turn on your camera, unmute your microphone and ask your question. If you have any technical questions, please feel free to submit them through the Q and A widget or email them to ir@veeva.com. Before we get started, I'll read a quick disclaimer. During the course of today's presentation, we will make forward-looking statements including statements regarding trends, our strategies, market size and opportunities, and the anticipated performance of our business, including guidance regarding future financial results. These forward-looking statements are based on management's current views and expectations and are subject to various risks and uncertainties. Actual results may differ materially. Please refer to the risk factors included in our most recent filing on Form 10-Q.
Forward-looking statements made during today's presentations are being made as of today, November 7, 2024. If the presentations are replayed or viewed after today, the information presented may not contain current or accurate information. Veeva disclaims any obligation to update or revise any forward-looking statements in the presentations. We will also discuss certain non-GAAP metrics that we believe aid in the understanding of our financial results. A reconciliation to comparable GAAP metrics can be found in the appendix of today's presentation which will be posted on our website. With that, I'll turn it over to our Founder and CEO Peter Gassner.
Thanks Gunnar and welcome everyone. Before we get started, I'll take a minute on our vision and values. This is how we operate the company and make decisions. We're building the industry cloud for life sciences. That means cloud software, data and consulting to help the life sciences industry become more efficient and effective. We want to help the industry grow and bring better treatments to more patients. Our values help us make decisions, both large decisions like new markets to enter and small decisions like what to do on a product feature or a project. And our values, they're in priority order. The first is do the right thing. That's about knowing what the right thing is and actively doing it. It's about having the right morals and integrity and treating others as we would wish to be treated. Second value is customer success.
And that's for the individuals in life sciences. They have to enjoy working with our products and people. Companies in life sciences have to have positive ROI and we have to be a positive force for the industry. Overall employee success. That's for our team, so that they can work at Veeva and it can be a place where they can do their best work in an environment of excellence and respect and speed. That's to remind us to do things quickly and correctly with high quality the first time, to get things done today instead of tomorrow if we can, even as we grow to be a bigger company. And finally, Veeva is a public benefit corporation. We have to balance the interests of customers, employees and shareholders. My talk today is organized around these four highlights. First, Veeva is a very durable company.
We have a lot of room to grow in life sciences. We're establishing today a new 2030 revenue goal. We're announcing an organic move into major new markets. Veeva is about 18 years old and with over 15 years of growth and profit, we're trying to build a very durable company that will be around for generations. A fundamental part of being a durable company is having the right product strategy. We generally focus on critical systems that are systems of record. We also want to have products that have a suite effect. Individual products are modular, but work better when they work together. Our software products are integrated together in suites and they connect across suites. Our software products fit very well with our data products and are reinforced and optimized by our business consulting.
But above all, each product has to be excellent and continue to get better. Product excellence is never done. This is a very durable product strategy and we need the right team to execute on this strategy. For each product and each product area, we have over 7,000 great people from a variety of backgrounds. Our work anywhere policy that allows us to tap into talent that others might not find. And we're careful in our hiring and followed a structured process we call hiring at Veeva. The basics of this process were put in place about 15 years ago when Veeva had less than 100 people. And it served us very well. And we need to focus on employee success as well. We want Veeva to be a place where employees can do their best work in an environment of respect and excellence.
We also have a multi-product operating model that helps us get to leadership in very diverse product areas. The operating model is a five-page document that all employees understand and something we constantly refer to and carefully evolve. The operating model starts with our values as a base. And then we have eight operating principles that help us make decisions. Things like how we value autonomy, how focus pays off, how we keep things simple and retain the ability to change. We then have 10 operating methods that help us get work done. Things like key projects, reference selling, our annual planning process and our startup model. And then we define our main functional roles and how they work together like product management, sales strategy, supporting functions, what these groups are and how they work together.
We've had success in multiple areas over the years and that's because we have an operating model that gives us an advantage. It's our people and how they use the operating model. Our operating model also changes as we learn and change. It's certainly a living document. Humility is also critical to being durable. We talk about this a lot. Arrogance is a trap that successful companies and individuals can easily get into and it's very detrimental to the long term. We have to be curious and always want to get better. We have to hire people with the proper humility and strive to keep our humility. We should speak softly, perform greatly and ignore the boasting of others. And finally, we need to retain that ability to change. We have processes around that actually because the world is always changing and we need to change with it.
So we're setting Veeva up to be a very durable company that will be around for generations. Okay, let's move into our next area. Long Runway for growth. Life Sciences first. That's a big market. We serve a big market. Life Sciences is a $2 trillion industry that continues to grow and we have a big opportunity in that market. The reasoning behind our $20 billion TAM, it's actually very simple. Industry-specific software and data is critical to Life Sciences. It's really the only way to drive long-term efficiency and some level of standardization and automation that will help the industry grow. Spending 1% on industry-specific technology to get more efficient is certainly reasonable and that should be a win-win for Veeva, our customers and the industry overall. For every dollar of revenue we take in, we want to create at least $2 of value.
Today we are about 14% penetrated in our TAM based upon our estimated revenue for this year, so we have a long runway of growth ahead, and these are the areas that make up our life sciences TAM, as you can see, commercial and clinical, those are the largest areas. Quality is the next one, and finally regulatory and safety. These are also essential areas for the industry. Still large, but smaller when compared to the other three. All right, let's talk about the industry cloud for life sciences. That's Development Cloud, Commercial Cloud, and Data Cloud, all supported by business consulting to help companies with the digital transformation that's enabled by our products in Development Cloud. We started working on this about, you know, more than 10 years ago with a bold vision, and today Development Cloud is becoming the standard technology used for drug development.
And we still have a lot of room to grow and we can always get better. The product areas of Development Cloud, those are in different levels of maturity, from very mature like eTMF and Submissions to very new products like eCOA and LIMS. We're very happy with our consistent progress on Development Cloud. And this is the playbook we'll follow for extending our Commercial Cloud on Vault. Moving from the CRM suite to the Vault platform was a big step for Veeva that gave us the flexibility to get all our applications on the common platform and create three new applications you see here. Service Center, Campaign Manager, and Patient CRM. We have a really compelling vision for a Commercial Cloud, but a critical step along the way is the migration of our customers from Veeva CRM to Vault CRM.
It's hard work in many ways, but we're making great progress. We announced the strategy of Vault CRM about two years ago that we were moving Veeva CRM from the Salesforce platform to the Vault platform. That's the time when development really started. A year later, we had our first customers live because we leveraged so much code and the great Veeva team, the product team that knows that area, we leverage them to get there so quickly. And if you look at this year, we've made great progress again. More than 30 customers live and multiple smaller migrations underway that should be done by the end of the year. In terms of new applications, Service Center came in Q3, Campaign Manager will come in Q4, and then Patient CRM next year.
Next year will also be a big year for migrations, as the first top 20 should be live in Q4 with about 20,000 users in more than 50 countries. We're in active discussions with many of the top 20 and hope to secure multiple commitments over the coming six months or so. We expect that most customers will make decisions in 2025 or 2026. Data Cloud is also an exciting area for Veeva. We're building a comprehensive industry data set covering reference data, deep data, transaction data and Pulse data, all using a common data architecture. All of these areas are important, but Compass is the largest single opportunity. With Compass, we're delivering a modern alternative to IQVIA for U.S. transactional data. We have Patient, Prescriber and National Compass. That's going to be a marathon for sure, but we're making very good progress.
Another way to look at our products is by business area. That's how we manage them internally. There are 10 business areas, each with their own markets, teams and leaders. Our goal is to get all our product areas up and to the right, where they have the high maturity and high market share, where they're helping to simplify and standardize the industry and adding significant value to the industry. You can see that only three of our product areas are in the top quadrant today and even those have room to grow because we keep adding new products and have more companies to sell to. And underlying most of these products areas is the Vault Platform. It's becoming the most important application platform for life sciences. As Development Cloud grows and Vault migrations start to happen, the relevance of the Vault Platform continues to increase all the time.
Vault is unique in the breadth of what it can do. It supports documents and data, R&D and commercial, all in a validated environment, and it helps us be very efficient when we're developing new applications as well. We can leverage all the great platform features instead of replicating things in each application. We continue to invest in the platform and are driving many major innovations such as the Direct Data API and a lot of smaller features that will help with Vault CRM. Over the past two years we've been very consistent with our AI strategy. We've avoided getting into the hype cycle and we focused on adding value to our products, delivering on customer commitments and putting in a good foundation for future AI work. We have a simple AI strategy.
We are developing application specific bots where we see a clear need and where there's a technology fit. Some of these will be included in existing subscriptions like our TMF Bot. Some will be add on products, some will use large language models and some more specific models for a specific task. We have the Direct Data API in our Vault Platform now to enable the high speed data transfer needed for AI. And we have an AI partner program to encourage innovation and customer choice. So we have a very clear product strategy with a long runway of growth that we need to execute on. We need to focus on product excellence and customer success in all of our business areas. Execution matters most. All right, now let's look forward to Veeva 2030.
First, we're still working on our 2025 goal, which we set in 2019, and we're still on track to meet that $3 billion revenue goal, that run rate goal next year. Another part of that goal is to have room to grow and we clearly have that. We have introduced so many new products since 2019. It's a whole different Veeva from five years ago and the last one, Still Veeva. We have achieved that very well. Still Veeva means that even at 7,000 people, we still have a common vision and values. We work together and we retain that ability to change. That's a very important thing as we look forward. Because the coming five years, those are going to be years of transition for Veeva in many ways. Today we're announcing our 2030 goals.
The first is to achieve a $6 billion revenue run rate in calendar 2030 to basically double the revenue run rate from 2025 to 2030 and double the value that we're delivering to customers in the industry. This plan considers mostly organic revenue, mainly life sciences and mainly from existing products. We have to execute well in many areas to get there and there are certainly a lot of unknowns, but we have the right team and the product strategy to do it. The second is to enter new markets and I'll talk about that in some detail in just a minute. The third is still Veeva, to still live our common values as one team and to retain that ability to change, you know, setting these long term goals. That's something we've done before. It's part of the way we work. It helps us execute.
We have annual plans each year and we have five-year milestone plans that we work toward. We achieved our 2020 goal and we're on track for our 2025 goal, and now we have a 2030 goal that we're working on. Now let me switch over to new markets. I talked about the coming five years as being years of transition for Veeva. Part of that is doubling the company and continuing to innovate and improve, but also new markets is a part of that. We're starting the next big leap for Veeva. You know, when we started Veeva in 2007, it was about pharma CRM and the surrounding products, which we thought could be a $1 billion or so type market. It was kind of a leap of faith and boy, a lot of hard work.
In 2010, we were making good enough progress that we started our next big thing that was Veeva Vault, which we knew had the potential to transform Veeva into a multi product company, into the industry cloud for life sciences. We thought that market could be bigger, maybe 10 times bigger. And you know, years later that turns out to be true. We have a $6 billion revenue goal now and we're building the industry cloud for life sciences. And that's because we started Veeva Vault in 2010. And today we're announcing that we're going into a new major market, horizontal enterprise applications. Not industry specific. It's a very big market, maybe 10 times as big as the industry cloud for life sciences with very different dynamics than an industry cloud in many ways.
It's a return to me to where I started my career at IBM, PeopleSoft and Salesforce in horizontal applications. First, let's talk about the timing. Why now? The simple answer is that we're ready now. Life science is in good shape. Our product strategy is set with plenty of room to grow. We have great leaders in multiple areas. We have live customers on Vault CRM. We weren't ready two years ago, but we're ready now. And why these new markets? Why horizontal enterprise applications? That answer is pretty simple. Veeva has a lot of experience in enterprise applications, both in how to build them, but also how to provide an authentic and differentiated customer experience. And we know how to innovate, we know how to challenge the status quo and execute.
So for our new markets plan, first off, we're just starting on this journey and we want to be very transparent about what we're doing. We have a small team working on new markets and we're taking a platform first approach. We're building a next generation application platform with some major innovations. I'm really excited about it. But it's early new markets is a startup, it's dynamic, it only has specific plans for 90 days at a time. You know, we'll start in a specific area in terms of application area and customer segment, but we don't know which one yet. We're focused on the platform now and I expect that focus can continue for next year or so. We'll see from there. Now, some things we do know. We know we're taking a long term view aligned to our PBC way of thinking.
We'll still do it in the Veeva way, thinking about growth and profit. The expense for new markets is factored into this year's plan, in our 2030 plan. And we're not counting on revenue from new markets in our 2030 revenue goal. Right now. We're just working on the platform, but at some point we'll get customers and then we'll focus on customer success. We know what enterprise customers want in these core applications. They want suites of products that fit together from a partner that executes with quality and innovation and that treats them in the right way without all the hype. That is very clear, really clear. That is what customers want. You know, can we give it to them over the long term or not? That's really the question. We think we can and we will try our best to do so. And execution matters most.
I've started big new things before and know what it takes. You need to identify a big challenge and then really go for it. You need to take a risk with no backup plan because if you can turn back, you will. And let me clarify what the risks really are in this case, it's not a risk to our Life Sciences business or to our existing customers, because this is a separate group, separate technology that reports directly to me. And it's no big financial risk for Veeva at our scale. In development like this, your best chance for greatness is to keep your teams lean. But the big risk is opportunity cost. If it doesn't work out, we've lost time and will not be able to make that up. And then you need a great team.
I think we have a core team now that is great on new markets. That team needs total autonomy. The team will learn from Vault and includes transfers from Vault, but it will go on its own way with a separate reporting structure and platform strategy. We need to avoid the trap of Innovator's Dilemma. It needs CEO focus as well. My focus. It has to be a priority for the company, at the same time protected from the company. That's what we did for Vault and that's what we'll do for new markets. It's exciting times for new markets. We're going to be building this platform for a while, a year or so. We have more specific information to share about which applications. We'll certainly let you know. Okay, before we wrap up, I want to say a few words about capital allocation.
Since we have over $5 billion now on our balance sheet, our priorities are executing on our 2030 revenue goal and starting up new markets that will determine our future. I don't think a major acquisition in Life Sciences is likely. There may be a smaller acquisition or two that makes sense for customer success. An acquisition in new markets might make sense and that could potentially be larger. But we'll be patient here and keep our eyes open to the possibilities and not force anything. And of course, capital return in terms of a share buyback is always possible, but that's not where our focus is right now and it will not likely happen next year. So in summary, it's an exciting time at Veeva, a time of transition. We're building a very durable company.
We have a long runway of growth ahead in life sciences. We have a new 2030 revenue goal, and we're starting the next big leap for Veeva, entering a big new market. And with that, I'll hand it over to Brian to give some more color on our execution and how we can meet our $6 billion revenue goal. Thank you.
Thanks Peter and thanks to you all again for joining us today. I'm looking forward to diving a bit deeper on some of the points that Peter touched on. Three major themes that I'll speak to in this section. First, the strength and consistency of our execution. Second, our path to $6 billion of revenue in 2030 and lastly, growth and profit. Spanning these themes, we have a lot of excitement and conviction about our plan and the opportunity to create additional value for the life sciences industry, for our employees and for our shareholders. Before I jump in, I'll give a directional update on our third quarter which just ended last week. Overall, we executed well in the quarter and expect to report results at or above the high end of our guidance for all metrics. We saw no material change in the macro environment since our last update.
We'll provide our full results as well as our updated fiscal 2025 guidance during the Q3 earnings call, which will be on December 5th, and then looking further ahead, we'll provide fiscal 2026 guidance during our Q4 earnings call in early March. Veeva has a strong, consistent track record of revenue and profit growth that reflects our execution and operating model. Revenue and non-GAAP operating income have both more than doubled in the past five years. We've always worked to have both growth and profit because together they're a flywheel. Profitability provides the fuel for innovation and innovation is the fuel for growth. Veeva is first and foremost a product company and subscription revenue is the primary driver of our top and bottom line results. Today, subscription products account for about 83% of total revenue.
Services makes up the other 17% and includes professional services like implementation and post implementation services and also business consulting. We want our services business to be profitable and it is consistently operated at margins above 25%. We manage our services business for customer success rather than as a primary revenue driver. That means we'll do services that we feel are needed or where we can add unique value. We also have partners that deliver in and around our products. Biopharma remains the primary industry that we serve, accounting for about 94% of total revenue. As the strategic partner to the industry, we partner with very large leading biopharmas all the way to emerging biotechs with under 100 employees. We think of biopharma customers in three groups. The top 20 are the top 20 global biopharma companies by revenue.
They're large global companies that total more than $700 billion of annual prescription revenue and one million employees. Together they account for about half of our biopharma revenue enterprise, which we define here as the rest of the top 50 biopharmas and the top six CROs, is roughly another 15% of revenue, and then the balance is SMB. That includes mid-sized biopharmas, emerging biotechs, and the rest of the CRO market. It's well over 1,000 customers today and about 35% of revenue. We expect these percentages of revenue in biopharma to be relatively stable over the coming years as our revenue grows. As Peter highlighted earlier, we have a long runway of growth ahead in life sciences.
Based on our expected fiscal 2025 revenue, we're only about 14% penetrated in our $20 billion TAM, and more than 50% of our TAM is serviceable today through our portfolio of about 50 products. Our goal is to be the leader over time in every market that we've entered. So while we'll continue to innovate and develop new products, there's a lot of growth to be had from execution in our existing footprint. Execution against that opportunity is what will allow us to deliver on the 2030 goals of $6 billion revenue run rate and continued strong profitability. The $6 billion revenue run rate will come from existing and announced products, and that growth is largely organic. The revenue goal does not assume any contribution from the new cross-industry enterprise software markets that Peter discussed.
We expect the mix of total R&D and commercial revenue to shift from roughly 50-50 today to about two-thirds R&D and 1/3 commercial in 2030, and please note that these figures include both subscription and services revenue by 2030. We expect subscription revenue to increase as a percentage of total revenue as our renewal base gets larger and we work to drive efficiencies in our services business. We expect that subscription revenue will go from 83% today to about 87% in 2030. Our services business will continue to grow through 2030, but at a slower rate than subscriptions and will be primarily driven by business consulting. We're maintaining our non-GAAP operating margin floor of 35%, which is inclusive of new market investment and reflects our continued focus on profitable growth.
These are ambitious goals, but we are confident in the products, the Veeva team and our operating model. One of the key things that operating model needs to support is an effective product adoption cycle. This is particularly important for us since we are a multi product company and Veeva's approach to product adoption is unique. It starts by identifying early adopters. These are companies and people who have a real need who want to build and innovate with Veeva and where our timing matches their timing for a specific product. Our main focus at this stage is getting those early adopters live and successful because early adopters help us improve the product. Once we have a base of early adopters live and happy, then we can start the cycle of reference selling. Reference selling requires product excellence, but it's an authentic way to sell that's rooted in customer value.
We'll also continue to expand and refine the product as we continue to learn. The last phase is market leadership and our goal is to be both the market leader and a leader that is liked. Doing both of those things over time and across many customers is really hard to do. It's not typical for leaders to be liked and it requires a lot of partnership, execution and humility. We need to keep adding value, creating deep partnerships and scaling best practices for the industry. Early adopters, reference selling, leader and liked. This is our general cycle, but every product is unique. Buying cycles, market dynamics, the macro environment and the quality of our execution are going to vary so every product looks a little bit different. One thing we do focus on across these phases are key projects.
Delivering customer success on key projects is a key part of how we learn and improve the product, how we showcase value in newer products and how we accelerate reference selling. The product quadrant that you've seen before reflects where our product suites are today in this journey and represents them from product maturity and market share perspectives. Most areas, seven of the 10 are still early, tying it back to the product adoption cycle. Early adopters are at the bottom left where product maturity is lower and so market share is as well. The early adopter phase is about getting to product excellence quickly rather than rapid top line growth. Reference selling is when we have those customers live and happy and the product is ready for the broader market. The vast majority of our new customers adopt during this phase.
For products in the top right, market share and product maturity is high. Incremental growth in those products is driven by late adopters and by new emerging biotechs just getting started in that area. Now the product quadrants a view by major product area, but each of those areas includes multiple products which are at different phases of maturity. So let's take a deeper look at clinical operations, or ClinOps for short. As an example, we have eight products today in ClinOps and I'm highlighting five of them here on the left. eTMF was Veeva's first R&D product and it's the clear market leader today with about 75% share in terms of revenue. It's one of our most mature products and yet it still has room to grow.
Part of that is that some of our enterprise deals are still ramping and part is that some customers don't yet use eTMF. All of our other ClinOps products are still in early days and that includes RTSM, which is the largest single product market we see in ClinOps. Zooming back out, this is now a broader view of Veeva's major product opportunities across the business. Five of our products are clear market leaders today. CRM, PromoMats, eTMF, Submissions, and QualityDocs. Each of these were introduced more than 10 years ago and they're some of our most mature products. Together they account for more than half of our subscription revenue today and they still have some room to grow after those. We have a lot of products that are in or entering the Reference Selling stage.
CTMS, QMS, Crossix, Link, EDC, Safety, and Site Connect, to name a few. These products are the key drivers of the 2030 plan, and then there continues to be a strong pipeline of newer products that are closer to the early adopter phase, including Compass, eCOA, RTSM, and LIMS. These products will continue to contribute through 2030, but more of their contribution will likely be after 2030. Veeva is a multi-product company, and this works because of our unique operating model. Our 2030 plan includes many products, but each one has a dedicated team focused on creating customer success and product excellence in that product. We keep these teams focused and lean so that they can move fast. The way we spend also reflects our product excellence focus. This chart shows how we invest in our subscription business.
As you can see, we spend nearly three times more on product than on sales and marketing and that reflects our focus on delivering value for our customers. Product excellence, innovation, deep partnership. That's what customers want from Veeva and that's where we invest. Our sales and marketing teams are very efficient because we have good products and services. And we believe that the best way to get sales and marketing efficiency is to make the best products. We're also very efficient and focused with our G&A spend. We call those supporting functions internally because their main goal is to help product, services and sales to be as productive as possible and enjoy their work. At Veeva, because of this approach, we have a consistent history of profitability and have exceeded our 35% non-GAAP operating margin floor in each of the last five years.
Looking forward, you can expect the same focus on profitable growth. While there may be some puts and takes to profitability through 2030, we will continue to operate efficiently and to invest where we see opportunities for growth. Wrapping up this section, we remain excited about the path ahead. We will continue to focus on strong, consistent execution and the twin priorities of growth and profitability. And while there's a lot of work to do in the next six years, we've charted a path to $6 billion revenue run rate in 2030 and have high conviction in the ability of our focused teams to continue delivering and expanding the value to the life sciences industry. And with that, we're scheduled for a 10 minute break before we turn to Paul to get a customer's perspective. Thanks so much.
All right, welcome back everyone. I'm thrilled to introduce our customer for fireside chat discussion this year and that's Markus Schümmelfeder who's the CIO at Boehringer Ingelheim. Boehringer Ingelheim, as you may know, is a top 20 biopharma. They have over 50,000 employees globally. They have a very strong focus on developing novel therapies for areas of unmet medical need like mental health, oncology, cardiovascular, renal and metabolic diseases. Boehringer Ingelheim is a very research intensive company. In fact, they have one of the highest R&D spends as a percentage of sales in all of top 20 pharma. They anticipate about 45 new treatment launches through 2030 across human and animal health. Markus, he's the global CIO responsible for all of it. His role spans all company processes, all parts of the company. Welcome Markus, and thank you for joining us.
Thank you, Paul. It's great to be speaking with you and the Veeva financial community.
All right, Markus, so let's jump right in. You've been an IT executive in the life sciences serving the life sciences industry for a very long time. You keep your pulse on what's happening in the industry. Certainly do benchmarking. I'd love to hear your thoughts from an industry perspective as you think more broadly, what do you think about as maybe the top priority for technology, that technology can solve? What do you see as the opportunity there?
I think everyone is aiming for the same target, to get safe, effective medicine for patients and animals faster. To do so, we need to get our processes better connected across areas and the full value chain from research through development, clinical production, supply chain and so on. We need to get the systems consolidated and clean data to get meaningful insights, all that to make better decisions. And then there's all the talk about AI. For that you need to get a better data foundation. You need to get it right first. Or as I used to say, no data, no AI. And we are losing a lot of time at the wrong place. Like non-automated processes, unavailability of data and the inability to overcome these shortcomings fast.
We know we must speed up everywhere, particularly in drug development, ultimately for the benefit of the patient and the animal. For that we need a global platform to connect processes and more so to integrate data. Historically we had a very fragmented landscape from R&D to commercial, and that is what we're changing now. With the help of Veeva, the key ingredient to speed up is creating a holistic perspective on data, platform and process.
So Markus, you know the industry's operated in this fragmented way that you've talked about for a very long time now. Can you give us some thoughts on maybe why that's? Why has it been so hard? Why has it taken so long to solve this?
Yeah, it is not that easy. It is about both systems and processes and additionally we are in a very regulated environment that controls those. On the process side, there are many players, each providing the perfect solution for a single problem. Meaning the industry still operates largely in silos. On the system side, historically there was no global player that can bring together all the processes on a single platform to connect the dots. But Veeva took it on early to bring quite a number of capabilities together on the common platform.
So as you think about the overall journey, where, where do you think the industry is on this? I know we've made a lot of progress as an industry for the last four years, but. But what, what's your take? Where are we along this journey?
It is still early in the journey. I think compared to other industries such as semiconductor, automotive, we are still not as automated, still too little in silico, more manual than manufacturing processes. This is the journey that we're on. I would say we are about a third of the way there as an industry, but with endless possibilities to make good things happen. You have to put the right foundation in place and then we can expand and layer in new things on top of that.
So maybe one good example, now bringing it down a level to inside of Boehringer Ingelheim, is your One Medicine program. It's something that you've been public about. I know you've been a key part of. It's a major transformation project for Boehringer Ingelheim. It spans clinical operations, clinical data, regulatory and quality. Over the last couple of years, you've achieved a number of major go-live milestones, and I know that you have a major milestone happening this month, in fact, around clinical operations and regulatory. Can you talk a little bit about why you decided to do the program and what you're trying to achieve there?
The One Medicine program was about developing medicine faster with One Medicine, meaning working as one. Thus the opposite to working in silos. We ask ourselves how can we do that? And first we needed to address the fragmented system and process landscape. As said earlier in R&D, there's a lot of niche vendors and that creates challenges. Financial viability, it's slow, it's expensive, often disconnected, integration is hard, and so on. Secondly, we wanted to partner with a platform and a vision that goes beyond where we are today and that was Veeva for us. Looking back, I think it was a bold move to bring various parts together as this was not an easy task and surely we are among the first ones to try it this way. But we are not there yet. Boehringer Ingelheim is on a journey with our One Medicine program.
Becoming faster for us means bringing our life-changing, innovative therapies faster to patients, and this is important to a lot of people who are in need of these and who may not have time to wait.
Markus, thank you for putting your trust and confidence in Veeva, and you know, which. Which raises one final topic for us. You know, you've worked with a lot of vendors over the last 20-plus years as an IT leader, and maybe you're sharing your final thoughts on Veeva. How would you think of Veeva as being different as a technology provider, but also how would you think about Veeva as being different as a company?
I've seen a lot of vendors over the years, different technologies, different platforms across all areas. For some other large vendors, we get releases and we have to go into testing mode afterwards. Heavily standard things are not working, not connecting. That is not what I get from Veeva. We get quality from Veeva. Things plug in and work and that is important. Otherwise we would lose time and traction. That is what I expect in general, but you don't get it from everyone, and here I appreciate what I get from Veeva. There's a vision and a delivery on that with quality, so let me share one story. I met your CEO, Peter, about eight to nine years ago when we were looking at our first application with Veeva beyond core CRM. And we were quarreling a little bit about the price. I thought it's too expensive.
Peter said, "Markus, sorry, this is the price, but you get a really good quality with it." But he promised me that what we get would be good and you have to pay for quality. So we came back together about a year later, but he delivered everything he said, and that has been consistent in our relationship. You have a clear vision and you deliver on it well. You also have sincerity about life science and your products, and you're truly interested in ensuring that we succeed. You're committed to make success happen, having a shared ambition with your customers to become better, delivering relevant and good quality results. And I like that.
Markus, thank you so much, and thanks for sharing that personal story that you had, the interaction you had with Peter, and for sharing all of your insights today. I'm glad that we were able to deliver on the quality that you talk about. The entire Veeva team I know works very hard to earn your trust, so we're glad to hear that that's paying off. Thank you again for taking the time to talk to the Veeva's financial community. Very much appreciate.
Was a pleasure for me. Thank you.
All right, and with that, I'll turn it back over to you, Peter, for some closing comments.
Thanks, Paul and Markus, and thank you to our customers for your partnership and to the Veeva team for your outstanding work and your dedication to customer success. It's an exciting time for Veeva as we look ahead. We'll now open it up to your questions.
Great.
Thank you, Peter, and to everyone for joining the webcast today for our 2024 Investor Day. On for Q&A will be Peter, Brian, and Paul. They should be joining us now. As a reminder, if you'd like to ask a question, please submit your question through the Q&A widget or raise your hand through the Zoom function. To kick us off, our first question will come from Rishi Jaluria with RBC.
Do we have Rishi on?
I see him there. He just needs to unmute his mic and turn on his camera.
So there we go.
Apologies for that. Zoom decided to crash halfway through becoming a panelist.
So, always nice, always nice.
But we really appreciate the time all the detail, you know, new target models and everything like that. Maybe just two quick ones. Peter, I want to ask a little bit more about the push into horizontal apps. I recognize it's still early. You know, I remember when we used to talk about Vault LIMS and the opportunity there and this almost feels like a little bit of a continuation of that. Maybe help us understand though what, what's driving the desire to go into that. And you know, given that there's a lot of opportunity in life sciences, you're going through this transition from Veeva CRM to Vault CRM, which is obviously a very big heavy lift. Why not maybe explore opening up the Vault Platform and let other ISVs build on top of that.
You're obviously very, very familiar, better than any of us with how successful an open platform strategy can be. So maybe walk us through the thinking and logic there, feedback from customers and then I've got a quick follow up.
Yeah, that's an excellent question. So in terms of why the horizontal applications, I think we can add value to the world there, right? We can take our skills and add value. We're good at enterprise software, cloud software, providing an authentic experience. I think there's room for the company with our type of execution values and a long-term PBC orientation. It's a differentiating thing. So if you can add value to the world, you should do it if you have the capacity to do it. And that's something we have now. Yes, lots of room to grow in life sciences, but things are set up well and they're growing and we have good leaders. We don't, you know, we can do two things at once now.
Now, in terms of your question about the Vault Platform, that's really built for industry-specific, you know, applications, and it's got a heavy burden that it's carrying, really helping to automate this industry. And as you mentioned, it's got a lot of room to run. So we don't really want to defocus ourselves there either by entertaining opening that up to outside developers, which you know, that's a whole different kettle of fish, right? Doing that, not technology-wise, but go-to-market-wise. So we don't want to really disrupt things there. And then, in terms of the new markets we're going after, we want to keep that Vault Platform pure on the industry-specific applications so that we don't have entanglement between the two sides of the business. Autonomy is an incredibly important thing.
You know, if you read that book, Innovator's Dilemma. It lays that right out there. The problem is you have to be very disciplined to do it.
Yeah, understood.
That's helpful. Color.
Then maybe I want to understand, and maybe this is for all of you and for Brian especially, why introduce a 2030 model today? I mean, there's still the 2025 model out there. It's still a year away. Obviously you're on track to achieve it or maybe even slightly exceed it. 2030 is a long time away. We don't know how the CRM transition.
Is going to go.
All these new initiatives, what drove the decision to give such a long term outlook today?
Thanks. Okay, maybe I could take that one. You know, the setting the goal helps to determine the outcome. Right. We set the goal publicly. Our customers know it, you know it, all the Veeva people know it. And we set that goal in time so that we can make that outcome a reality. So that's the main thing, you know, we'll reach our goal next year. So in effect, if we didn't set that goal this year, we don't actually have a long-term milestone goal anymore. And we need that. We need that. It's part of our operating model.
Wonderful.
Thank you so much.
Thanks, Rishi.
Thank you, Rishi. Our next question will come from Ken Wong with Oppenheimer.
All right, perfect. Everyone can hear me.
Okay, we can hear you, Ken.
All right, great. I wanted to not surprisingly build on Rishi's question in terms of the push to horizontal apps. Peter, I think right off the bat. Like we've been getting questions about risk. You sort of addressed the risk earlier. But as we think about where you might want to enter from the horizontal side, is it fair to assume you would stay within your core competency and sort of that customer engagement, CRM-ish side? Or are you guys, you have grander aspirations beyond the commercial side of horizontal apps?
Yeah, we haven't picked an area yet. Now in terms of experience for Veeva, it's quite a variety. Some of our applications are used in the manufacturing area. The quality applications you mentioned, rightly, the CRM, our first application, the clinical area, that is more, that's neither manufacturing or CRM. So I don't view our experience as confined or dominated by any one area. It is in the area of critical systems. You know, that's where we really are and you know, we just don't know yet. Right.
We have, we have to have a lot of optionality. I mentioned the 90-day plans and it's really the truth. That's the heartbeat of a startup. 90 days is an eternity and if you make your decisions too far ahead of time, you actually close off your potential and you can't do anything about it anyway. So for curiosity's sake, absolutely. In the first, oh, it was probably 18 months of Veeva, there was only 90-day plans. That's it, only 90-day plans, and same way with Vault, only had 90-day plans in the beginning, and that's my way and our way of reinforcing that the heartbeat of a startup is different. It has to be different, so don't have answers, but that's okay because I'm confident that information will come in and then you can make better answers rather than making it in the absence of information.
Got it. Perfectly acceptable. Sounds like an exciting time ahead for you, Peter. You kind of back in the toy store I guess.
There you go. I don't know if it's toy store, but yeah, I think it's an aggressive thing. I think it's a way we can contribute to the world through innovation, both in the product and in the way we approach customers. It's actually could be differentiating. You can't point to another large enterprise software company that's a public benefit corporation. Yep. You know, if you really think that that doesn't matter. It's not correct. It does change your outlook and what you do.
Brian, maybe, maybe for you. Look, I think you'll learn very quickly. That U.S. analysts are fairly simple. Peter, and you guys put a long-term target out there and our math gets you to a 15% CAGR. And I think kind of simplistically we're. Thinking, oh, okay, that probably means that. They're going to grow 15% in the near term. How should we think about kind of that trajectory and you know, whether or not that's a fair assumption for us to use as far as the nearest term growth. Growth prospects.
Yeah, thanks for the question, Ken. Nice to see you again. So as you're doing the math on the annual growth rate, I think the thing I do is make sure you're looking at the annual revenue rate at the end of 2030 being $6 billion. And I compare that to the $2.7 billion annualized rate at the end of Q2. So when you do that you should get something like 13% annual growth. And so we'll set guidance annually as part of our annual guidance setting process. As Peter said, this is about having a goal and moving the company towards it.
We'll release our annual guidance at the end of Q4 as we usually do, and release annual guidance for next year at that point.
Okay, perfect. Thank you, Brian.
Thank you, Ken. Our next question will come from Joe Vruwink at Baird.
Okay. Hi everyone. Thanks for the time today. I maybe wanted to pick up after Ken's question. The five-year targets, they always seem ambitious and that, lo and behold, you know, they come up and we're talking about new higher target. I guess I wanted to ask the question just relative to the low double-digit growth that's in place right now. Can you maybe just outline some of the key drivers you see as bringing a bit of a step up in the growth rate as you look forward? Are there certain strategies or elements of the business that can just contribute in a bigger way than have been contributing recently?
Yeah, thanks for the question, Joe. Appreciate it. So when you look out at that growth, about 90% of the overall growth is coming from subscriptions. So it remains the key driver of growth in the business. And within subscriptions, R&D is the main driver. It's about three quarters of the overall growth of subscriptions. But beyond that, it's really a broad product set. And I think that's one of the things that's so unique, looking forward versus looking back is it's a wide range of products. And so we spend a lot of time talking about the multi product operating model because that's so important to the future of Veeva. And then the other part I'd say is that services, while it's 10% of the growth, is still a contributor to growth.
And so we've got this business consulting team that we started a few years ago and that's really starting to drive growth in the services segment. And we see that continuing out to 2030 as well. I think you're on mute, Joe.
Oh, we had you on mute.
Sorry, sorry, sorry about that. I wanted to ask just kind of the tenor of conversation. Specifically when you engage with your R&D customers, it certainly seems still like a very dynamic environment. You've heard some anecdotes recently of large pharma still prioritizing their clinical pipelines, I guess, is the activity Veeva sees not talking about the industry but just narrowing in on your conversations? Are you seeing things quiet down a bit where there is a level of interest in thinking about the next few years and getting the right technology strategy in place, even while we might be facing headlines around certain drugs proceeding forward not proceeding forward, which is impacting some more service-oriented businesses in the space.
Yeah, I do think we see a sort of a longer sine wave. Our revenue is not so much impacted by services on a specific clinical trial, but it's about, you're putting in capabilities for the long term. So we kind of operate on the longer sine wave. I also think execution is back in style. There was a time maybe you know, three years ago where it was, you know, sort of quick hitting AI, you know, COVID kind of stuff. Now I think, you know, long term execution is back in style and for that you need systems, processes and data. That's what you need. It's that hard work and we, that's the way we play in that area. So I wouldn't say there's any dramatic uptick. But yeah, it's companies are looking for that efficiency.
Thank you.
Thank you, Joe. Our next question will come from Ryan MacDonald at Needham.
Hey guys, you got Matt Shea on for Ryan tonight. Thanks for taking the questions and putting this together. Really appreciate it. You know, maybe just to continue on the theme of, of new markets. Peter, just curious how you're thinking about industry verticals to go after, any industry verticals that you think are particularly ripe to disrupt or play specifically to Veeva's strength. Sounds like manufacturing could maybe be one. But any other good targets at this juncture? Just kind of how are you thinking about your expansion outside of Life Sciences?
Yeah, in new markets it's really not. We're just really focusing on the platform so far, the technology platform that we would use to build our applications and we think we're going to make some real breakthroughs there, but we're not. We're.
And then probably, I would say next we're going to probably look at the application area, which application area might be good, and after that we might go into which segment but which industry segment. That's, that's the whole thing on this one. It's, it won't be industry segment specific. So we're very early and that, you know, we're certainly going to let you know when we have more information.
Okay, appreciate that. I guess maybe stepping back then and talking about more of the core. Good to see some of the progress with Data Cloud and I guess based on our checks it seems like your ability to integrate and de-identify data across data sets is a point of differentiation relative to some of the competition out there. So curious if that differentiation is actually resonating with the market.
If kind of buyers to prospective buyers, you know, understanding that. I guess on data solutions generally, are you seeing pipeline and demand build at this point, especially after kind of a rather difficult 18 months in that space, if you will.
Thanks, guys. Yeah. Yes, we are seeing pipeline built particularly for Compass. As the product gets more mature, as we get more customers that have success, it does build with our data solutions, particularly Link and Compass. One of the things to know is that we're taking a really different differentiated strategy based on what's out there today. So that can slow you down sometimes because we're having to teach people that, well, the way you've done it before, the way you've licensed it, the way you've looked at the data, we've got a different way that we think is better.
There's only a subset of people that want that different way at first, you know, which is if you're selling a replacement part, you can tell people, hey, you had a spark plug. I've got a better spark plug. We're really having to show the market that there's a better way to do it. And it is around the linking of the data as you manage, as you said, the common data architecture, things that are built for specialty medicines versus, you know, retail medicines. So it's making progress. We're happy with it, but as I mentioned, it's going to be a marathon in that area.
Great.
Thank you for the question. Our next question will come from Kirk Materne at Evercore ISI.
All right, there we go. Hi, guys. Thanks for taking the question. Peter, I was kind of curious. When you think about the new markets, you guys have a platform that's very differentiated. I guess when you think about you all building it, why not more of like an app marketplace strategy where you guys could co-invest with people and take more shots on goal, if you will, through entrepreneurs. And I guess, frankly, from a cost perspective, you know, maybe offshore offset some of the cost to you directly. So can you just talk about why it's better to kind of keep it all in Veeva versus more sort of almost an investment philosophy on that front. Right?
Yeah, no, you bring up an excellent point. There's a few ways to do these things, right, but you have to pick one way to do it. You can't be trying to pick both. So I'm not saying that the way we're picking is for sure going to turn out the best or not. Right? Those are predicting the future, which is notoriously difficult to do. But I believe it's a differentiated strategy to really say, no, we have to deliver the value to the customer, the end application and probably the services and some consulting around that. To be really, really invested in that customer's success with our product holistically. All in. So to almost cut off our other options of what to do. Another model would be sort of something like AWS does.
Hey, they step back and they build a platform and they leverage and they don't get in the middle ground and, you know, build applications and things like that themselves. That's also a pure model. I think Veeva's bigger value and what we know more is actually at the application level, we know the platforms for building our own applications, but at our core we're not a, we're not an ecosystem company.
Right.
Where you could compare us more to something like a SAP or, or a Workday or, or something like that that really develops great applications. So that's where we're going to focus and we'll see. Yeah, we'll get our report card six years from now.
Fair enough. And then just one more for you. Obviously, you know, from a market perspective, a lot of discussion about autonomous agents and what that means, frankly, from an application perspective. Can you just talk about what you all are doing on that front? And then I don't know if Brian, if you want to comment just on, in case, if there's any sort of GPU costs or things like that to you all, as I imagine you all are playing around with some of this technology.
Yeah, but we call that bots. You know, I, you know, people call it agents. The reason why I call it bots is, you know, I feel like, okay, it's a robot, it's going to do a low value thing that you don't need that, a repetitive thing that you don't need a human to do. And we have some of those in our software today. We have our eTMF bot. It's used heavily right now and we'll introduce more over time whether and how we'll do those. Some will use a large language model that needs a GPU, but some won't, they'll use very specific models.
Our eTMF bot is a very specific model that doesn't need a GPU, is trained specifically on what it's doing and sometimes we'll follow an approach where a customer is going to bring their own model because it has their own specific things and we'll provide the interface and the data to plug into that. So I don't, I don't see a margin hit with Veeva. I don't see this as an area where we're going to dive down deep on the compute power like that. If we get something so compute intensive like that, that's a place where customers are going to be hosting their own models for that. And by their own models I mean that will come from the big one of the big platform players. Thank you.
Thanks.
Thanks Kirk.
Our next question is from Karl Keirstead from UBS.
All right, great. Thank you. Maybe I've got two questions and I'll ask both. So Peter, many years ago Veeva leaned into your call it version one of this strategy called outside Life Sciences. I could be wrong, but it feels like it's faded a little bit in the last couple of years. So I wanted to ask you what did you learn from that version one that that makes you and the team a little sharper about this, the second swing of the bat to help us maybe get comfortable that this one can be a lot more successful than the first shot. And then Brian, on the, on the numbers you guided to about a 5-point decline in operating margins through fiscal or calendar 2030. I'm just curious. Peter mentioned that that embeds costs associated with this new markets push.
Are you able to bracket what the impact is like for instance maybe two points of that five-point decile is the cost to execute on this new vision? Some kind of framing would be helpful. Thanks so much.
Okay, Karl, on the first one, this was many years ago we decided to go after the consumer packaged goods area. Right. Industry-specific application for consumer packaged goods which we did. And we're, we're happy with that business. It's a profitable business for us. It's, it's just not that big. That's not as, as big of a market. We also leveraged our core Vault platform so you could kind of think of that as, as an add-on onto our industry cloud for life sciences. You can kind of think about it that way. This, what we're doing now for horizontal because that's something different.
Right.
These are not industry specific, not the same platform. This is the very big swing when I look back on consumer packaged goods and you know we're happy with that. It's a nice business. It wasn't, it's not a next, it's not a next leap. It didn't have the potential to be bigger than, than what we're doing. So you learn from that. But it was never intended to be the, the next very large leap.
Okay, thank you, Peter.
Right. Then maybe I can pick up the second question, Karl, which is around the margins. I'd encourage you on that 35% to think of that as a margin floor rather than margin guidance. We've had that same margin floor for the past several years and exceeded it. We're going to continue that same lean operational focus as we look out. There's some puts and takes looking out to 2030, of course, but we're not giving long-range margin guidance. What we will do is give margin guidance annually. We'll give our FY26 margin guidance as part of that process.
Okay. Awesome.
Yeah, thank you. Yeah. Karl, this is a little more background on that. You know, we run the company through our vision and values. Right. Do the right thing. Customer success, employee success. And we're a PBC, so we got to think about investors, you know, shareholders and think about customers, employees. I've always said, you know, if a business needs profit to be viable. Right. Otherwise it can't go anywhere. 35% plus is always my, it's just our, hey, that's what we got to do. That's the baseline. Sometimes it's going to be a little more, etc. But that's not, we really won't turn the dials on a short term or a year by year for that.
Because if you look at things like this, you know, horizontal business applications, yes, we only have 90-day plans, but gosh, that's really what's important is what's the trajectory? What does that business look like in 2040? Right. It's really that long of thing. You know, I was at Salesforce.com for example, in 2002. You gotta think, you gotta think out like that. So I just want to make sure we have some room so that hey, on a particular time frame, we need to do what's right. Right. Then rather than saying, okay, we gotta manage things 10, 90 days.
Yeah, got it. Thanks a lot.
Thank you.
Thanks, Sean.
Thanks, Karl. Our next question will come from Annie Samuel at JPMorgan.
Hi, thanks so much for the question and for everything today. You know, in your prepared remarks, you kind of outlined a number of products that are moving into reference selling that are really going to be kind of driving a lot of the growth over the next five years. And I know you don't like to get into it, you know, kind of by product line was hoping maybe you could just kind of help us contextualize, you know, how those should be growing, you know, kind of relative to your core business. When we think about you know, kind of that. And I think you said it was 13%, you know, kind of CAGR over the next couple of years.
Brian, you want to take that one?
Yeah, I'm sorry, and I had a little blip in my Internet there. Do you mind just repeating that? Apologies.
Sure. So you know, in the prepared remarks you had a really kind of helpful chart that showed the products that are going to be moving into reference selling. And that is really going to be kind of what's driving the bulk of your growth going forward. But if, you know, how do we contextualize the growth in those areas relative to the core to kind of build up to that 13% CAGR over the next five years to get to that $6 billion?
Yeah, thanks for the question. Sorry for having to have you repeat it there. So I think the way to think about that is again that it's a really broad-based strategy looking out to 2030. So we tried really hard to say, hey, can we pin it down to one or two things. But it's really not. It's a lot of products contributing and at different phases. You saw this, those five products that were on the left of that chart, which are the most mature products and they still have room to grow, so they're still contributing through 2030. I think the point we were making on that group in the middle is that those are major markets for us and all of them are entering that steep part of the product adoption.
So those are key contributors, but there's contributors across that whole slide and also products that are not on that slide. So the key thing for us is about that multi product operating model and having lean, really focused teams on each of those products because it's such a broad based growth strategy through 2030.
Thank you. And then maybe just one follow up. I see you kind of look at investing in some of these new markets. How should we be? I know you've kind of talked about 90-day plans and you've kind of talked about the 35% margin floor, but how should we be thinking about the pacing of investment? Is it going to be one of these things where you kind of start small and as you start to realize you can kind of learn, then that you're going to start spending more? Should we think of it as, you know, kind of a more measured investment over the next five years?
I, I think the most accurate way to think about it is starting small, starting small and probably staying small a bit and then a kind of a more measured increase there. That's, that's my best guess at this time, but gosh, it depends on a lot of factors, right? I tell you, 90 days from now, boy, we'll have a lot more information. So, you know, unfortunately or fortunately about that, it's, you have to embrace that uncertainty now. What we do know is we want to keep that expense as low as possible because the expense will mainly be people, and you want to keep that as low as possible to retain your speed, so I don't worry about the expense there. I would just worry are we putting in the right quality based on things? That's my, my main worry right now.
Perfect.
Thank you.
Thanks.
Thanks, Annie. Our next question will come from David Windley, from Jefferies.
I get connected. Hopefully you can hear me. My question, Peter, is around kind of focus and the history in your clinical ops or what I think you call your R&D area. So predecessor clinical operations software vendors. So I'm thinking like Phase Forward now, part of Oracle, like Medidata, have kind of lost focus and forfeited their leadership positions. As you're expanding out and creating this Skunk Works to focus on horizontal. How do you avoid that loss of focus in the core?
Yeah, David, that's excellent. That's a really excellent question. So broadly speaking, the clinical area, which would include clinical operations, clinical data management, that's about one third of our life sciences opportunity. Because it's a large area of spend for life sciences and involves a lot of workflows that even go out to the research sites. It's very technology heavy. So we focus there. In a couple ways we're going to do that. Our new markets, which actually we don't call Skunk Works.
Right.
This is a major priority for the company. Not, not a Skunk Works. There's only one of these we got going on. So the main thing is that's reporting to a person that is reporting to me and has nothing to, you know, shares no technology, shares nothing, no distraction from the clinical people. And then inside of Veeva, we have leaders of our clinical data management area in our clinical operations area and they have dedicated development teams, they have their customers. There's nothing in their way and they're quite seasoned. Now we step into, we have a method of measuring and monitoring. This is a little deeper in our operating model than you might want to know.
But for each business area, there's twice-yearly very in-depth strategy reviews where we're looking out three or four years and I participate, then there's a set of peers participate in them and that's where we're really stressing ourselves by area. Are we doing the best we can? Are we getting lazy? Are we getting arrogant? What can we do now to. So, yeah, this is. I always tell people, David, it's the downside of capitalism. There is no free lunch, there is no resting.
Right.
It's somewhat depressing. It's an endless game. But yeah, if you lose that fire, you'll get. It won't happen now. Also, when you're the leader, if you lose that fire, you're not going to be liked. And that starts the ball rolling too. So I want to set a high bar for Veeva, and part of that is giving these people the autonomy. We have a virtual CEO of clinical operations and clinical data management, and they know they own that ball and it's my job to replace them if they don't have the fire.
Right?
That's, that's my job. So I, I don't want to let our customers down. What if most of the customers are using, you know, the, this clinical software from Veeva and we start, you know, dropping the ball? It's gonna slow down the whole industry. But what if we use our position to gain more market share, to innovate more, and then, who knows, because there's more standardization, we can make some kind of a breakthrough that enables a process that really changes the way clinical trials work. Wouldn't that be a good thing to do? I think there's opportunity that can be created on top of a more standardized clinical universe. I talk to clinical leaders all the time, David, that they don't think the clinical trial process as it is now is really optimized as much as it could be.
So I think we're excited to really answer your question. We're excited about the clinical, and if there's anybody here working in clinical that's not excited, I need to move them out.
Really.
I'm sorry to be that blunt, but that's the job.
Got it. If I could ask a follow up, a little bit of a different version of an earlier question about the amount of pharma restructuring that seems to be going on right now, or at least we're seeing the announcements, the culmination of some of that restructuring. And I guess I am wondering, within the context of what you just said, about the opportunity to change how clinical trials are done, which is desperately needed, those restructurings would seem to be some, you know, some acknowledgement of a need for that. And so I'm wondering if that's catalytic to adoption of platform, not just app, but platform and suite or do we need to be braced for those as being a short to intermediate term disruptor to decision making, as you saw, I think maybe a year ago, kind of creep in? How should we think about that? Thank you.
I would say, you know, I don't want any kind of overreaction on this because as, as we said, we will meet, you know, meet or exceed our guidance in general restructurings. Those are, those are a short term. Those are usually a short term detractor. When there is that now, I haven't seen it, I haven't seen it be rampant yet. We haven't seen that. A bigger short term distraction for us is when there's, there's people reaching for the stars and this is the next great thing. Right, because that says we got to go right now, we can't build core capabilities. Right. Those are sometimes detractors. The best environment for us is when they have their structure and they're really focusing on optimizing and efficient sizing. That's the best for us. So it's a pretty good time for us.
I wouldn't say it's an overly exuberant time, but it's a pretty good time.
Thank you.
Thanks.
Thanks, Dave. Our next question will come from Brent Bracelin from Piper Sandler.
Hello, this is Brent. Can you hear me?
Okay.
All right, guys. So Peter, we all have a little bit of déjà vu here with AWS, but I just wanted to take a step back and make sure we're thinking about and framing this opportunity correctly. You just put out this $6 billion. Goal. Is the right way to think about it that $6 billion is the path that you see with Core Products getting you to that $6 billion? And when you talk about horizontal, it's almost a moonshot where you're going to say, hey, we're going to do something else. Not really going to contribute much to that 6 billion, but we're. You sound excited about kind of doing something else. Is that the right way to frame it?
Yeah, the $6 billion is certainly inside of Life Sciences. Nothing to do with the horizontal application and largely with the products that we have today that we've already announced today. So that's an execution, you know, 99.9%, whatever percent of the company is on that. And then there's a small group that is working on new markets now. We're excited for that. In the same excitement when we started Vault in 2010.
Right.
It's that same excitement. You don't know how long it takes for it to contribute some revenue. Right. We know it doesn't. It's not going to be material to that $6 billion in life sciences in 2025 or sorry in 2030. So we're starting something new and that's a trap also for big companies. Sometimes when you start something new, you're tending to put it on the structure that you have on the larger company and have the goal posts and the milestones and like that. You really can't do that, you know. So we're excited about it. We got 90-day plans and we see where we go. Very different than the OLS. Right. The OLS was adjacent to life sciences using our core platform. This is something where we're really going out there.
Very interesting. And I found it curious that you put new markets as the first bullet in the capital allocation approach. To me that suggests, and the reason why perhaps you didn't do a buyback is you do want to have the flexibility to do M and A. Is that the right takeaway? You were very clear you're not going to do a buyback. You got a lot of cash, you're generating a lot of cash flow. Is that the right takeaway that like you want to have the flexibility to do some M and A in this new area if something were to pop up.
That's, that's true. We want to have that flexibility. We don't plan to do share buybacks in the next year because we want to have that flexibility and really see what happens. And then also just I wanted to be clear that that $6 billion. We're not going to be, you know, buying revenue inside of Life Sciences. That's not what we need to do. Might be a little bit of tuck in acquisition that fits for the customer success but nothing large there. It's just that financial flexibility. If we would, you know, buy something for the new markets, it would be something that could help and set us on a trajectory for the long term. Not again. We're not going to be, we're in the innovation space there. We won't be buying revenue.
Okay, very helpful. And then my last question is for Brian. I think the last time you gave us a 35% long term target, we had a lot of indigestion around that number. I think Tim stressed the plus. I think back in the day it sounds like you're stressing the plus again, but when you gave that target, I think the lowest annual operating margin you delivered over a five year period was like 37%. So it was 35% plus. 37% was on an annual basis, was the lowest. Is that kind of the similar framework how you came up with it for the next five years? Similar philosophy?
Yeah, that's exactly right, Brent. So the plus is important on there and that's because we treat it again as a floor rather than guidance. So it's not a target, it's a floor. And Peter spoke a little bit earlier as to why we think about it that way. We will give annual guidance on the margins. That's more specific and we'll do that for FY26. But this is a floor that will not go below helpful color.
add a whole wish list of things I want to talk to you guys about. So I'll yield the floor now, but super helpful. Thanks for hosting this today, guys.
Thanks, Brent.
Thanks. Thank you, Brent.
Our next question will come from Stan Berenshteyn from Wells Fargo.
Hi. Thanks for taking my questions. I wanted to maybe dig in a little bit more into the longer term revenue guidance. I know it's been a frequently asked question here, but if you think about the way you've been parsing your clients, right, you have the top 20 is 50%, I believe the enterprise, including CROs is 15% and then 35% for SMB. If we fast forward to 2030, Brian, can you maybe give us a snapshot of how you think those segments will look like on the client side?
Yeah, so as we fast forward to 2030, I don't think we actually see a major change in that, Stan. Of course there'll be little tweaks here and there as we go. But overall we think that the growth is going to be proportional as we look out to 2030 to the mix of revenue today. And that's because the proportion of opportunity is roughly the same as the mix of revenue. So we don't see that changing too much. Maybe just a little bit on the margins as we move out.
Okay, Peter, maybe just a quick follow up here on the CRO business. I know you've called us out in the past as you wanting to have closer relationships there. Anything to call out here? Any progress that you're making with these conversations on the CRO side?
There's progress. I think there's progress. We can't quite see it in the financial results yet because it's actually a long, long lead time.
Right.
When these CROs start winning bids and they're using the Veeva technology in that bid, well, then that study's got to start and then that sometimes we get paid after that. So I think the leading indicators are good, but nothing dramatic yet. I'm always a little bit impatient there. You can ask the internal CRO team at Veeva. They tell me I'm impatient.
Great. Thanks so much.
Thanks, Dan. Our next question will come from the line of Craig Hettenbach from Morgan Stanley.
Hi. Can you hear me okay?
Yes.
Oh, perfect. Maybe bringing Paul into the discussion just on Vault CRM migration and beyond the three early adopters. As you talk to other large top 20 global, maybe you can touch on just some of the things that you think are resonating most in terms of their excitement, in terms of moving to the platform and maybe one of the things that's giving them pause or they want to kind of work through.
Yeah, thanks. First, thanks for bringing me in. I was enjoying listening to Peter and Brian. I can do that all day long. But so first, the migrations are going well, right? We're starting to get into the thick of that. We have a couple of smaller Veeva CRM customers that we're migrating right now and we're in conversations with virtually all of our customer segments. SMB Enterprise top 20. So with regards to what's resonating most. So one is the, the path to get to Vault CRM. We're making that, we're making that as easy as possible. We're doing a lot to help our customers get there. And I think there's an appreciation for the investment, the care, the deliberate approach that we're taking to get our customers to this new place. But I think bigger than that is what we're delivering beyond just the core system. Right.
We're delivering a lot of innovation because it's on the Vault Platform. It's a platform that supports documents and data. Content is really critical in the industry. This idea of being able to be more digital target and personalize customer, customer communications, the excitement around getting to true customer centricity. So it's the innovation, right? That's what's driving excitement, is the innovation, the new features and functions that we'll have, but also some of the new products. Service Center, Campaign Manager. Even with some companies that in the top 20, they know they may not get to those products in two or three or even four or five years. There's a lot of engagement.
They're very excited. They're very interested in where we're headed, and in some cases they want to help drive our direction because they want us to be ready for them and to be able to support their vision over time after they move over to Vault. So it's really about the kind of the innovation in terms of what are they most concerned about? It's the unknown. Right. There's the fear of the unknown, and as more time goes on, less becomes unknown, and certainly next year will be a big year as we do our first top 20 migration. We'll have that completed by the end of the next year, and then that unknown tends to go away, so super exciting.
We've got a big innovation roadmap we're going to execute on the migrations and I think it's driving a lot of momentum with our customers.
Great. And then just a quick follow up.
For Peter, in the R&D segment, and understanding the ramping EDC deals are a nice tailwind the next number of years. Outside of that, any particular areas within R&D that you're most excited about next one or two years that you expect to really drive growth in that segment?
One or two years. I would say you're right about the EDC, that clinical data management to drive growth. I think the newer products in clinical operations as well, the Study Training and the Site Connect. I think those are primed to contribute quite well there. Also a lot of our large, in terms of revenue, are large ramping CTMS deals and QMS deals. Right. That are, that are still ramping. So in terms of revenue contributions those are probably large. In terms of seeds planting for the future, the ePRO. Right. That's a, that's a big area. The products maturing where and we're ready to, we're ready to see some things there in the randomization and trial supply management. You know, very small in terms of revenue but a large opportunity so we can plant some seeds there.
Also, I would say the LIMS area and safety I think is also. It's a big area when you consider safety and the add-on products of Signal and Workbench. I think that'll be more of a linear type of thing, but you never know because there's a couple real legacy providers there. Right. And if those, sometimes what happens is a legacy provider will, they'll stumble for some unknown reason. Right. And when that happens and we have live customers, it can cause a little flurry of activity there. That could happen. I'm expecting it won't, I'm expecting it'll be a long slow grind. But there's potential that that ramps quickly. And we're prepared for that. We prepare for these scenarios actually in our services.
We cross train the areas in our services because it's a little unpredictable when the demand's going to come. If we don't watch it, that'll be the rate limiter. Our services people, when a demand comes unexpectedly, so that's the one that I think it'd be a little unpredictable. The safety one. That's helpful.
Thanks a lot.
Thanks, Jay.
Thanks, Craig. Our next question will come from Gabriella Borges of Goldman Sachs.
Hi, good evening. Please pardon the audio-only feed. Peter, I wanted to ask you the question about new markets in a slightly different way as it pertains to your R&D building blocks and some of the IP that you have. Is there a way to think about the core building blocks that you have today? What proportion of them, maybe qualitatively, if not quantitatively, are more life sciences specific versus what proportion of them could maybe be universal and applied across different end markets?
That's a thoughtful question. I think to step back a little bit. You asked what could be served by both. I will answer that, but first, we are not leveraging any of the software we have for life sciences or the people. Those people are dedicated. They're doing what they're doing. There's absolutely no disruption. We owe that to our customers. Our business is growing and going to double over there, so we do that. There are ideas that we leverage. I guess that's more proper way to say it. There's ideas and leverage learnings, so there's tapping in and learnings between the people, mostly at the core infrastructure and platform level.
Things where people talk and think, wow, if I had to do that over again, kind of, here's how I do that, you know, so that there's that internal experience, but there's actually no crossover of software because you need that autonomy.
Right.
The new thing needs to know that Big Brother is not going to help them.
Right.
You're out there on the island and you got to make it work and it's exciting. That's how you move fast.
That makes sense. One other question I had was on the election and how to think about implications from administrations coming and going and policy changes. Peter, you've seen a number of administration changes over your tenure. How are you hearing? What are you hearing from your customers on either their hesitation on investing in their product stacks or in their revenue stacks because of a change in administration, or conversely, perhaps there's been uncertainty going into the election and now that we have an outcome, is there less uncertainty? Any comments you have or any observations around that?
Yeah. Paul, you want to take down your. I know you work more in terms of the IRA Act in the government area.
Yeah, I'll take that one. Thanks for the question, Gabriela. So you're right. I mean we've seen a lot of administration changes. This is certainly not the first one that the industry's seen and historically there hasn't been a significant change or impact because of a near term change, because of an administration change. A lot of times the policies and people, they tend to take time to play through. I think your point about certainty is a good one. Certainly having some certainty and clarity does help the industry. But I wouldn't say we've seen anything material in terms of customers acting differently and I don't expect to see that. Certainly not over the short term. Over the longer term, there's a lot of variables right in terms of getting policies in place and seeing what actually will play out.
But we haven't seen really anything materially, any volatility or anything that's been impacting over the short term.
Thanks, Paul. I appreciate the observations.
Thanks, Gabriella. Our next question will come from Andrew DeGasperi from Berenberg Capital Markets.
Sorry, can you hear me now?
We could.
We hear.
We heard you. A little bit of echoing. Let's try that again. Oh, Andrew, you're on mute.
I wanted to ask a question on. The sales and marketing expenses, as you. Add people, do you think that's going? To ramp up. Sales and marketing expenses generally as a percentage? I don't expect it to. No, I don't. Our sales and marketing expense as a percentage of what we spend, I expect it to remain relatively constant at least in the next, you know, year or so. It may potentially go down a little bit, but I don't expect it to materially go up. The reason why as it returns to growth in terms of that business, that industry, do you think that is baked into your long-term targets?
Brian, do you want to take that one?
Yeah, I missed the first part of that question, Andrew. Was that, was that around the life sciences space specifically or new markets?
I mentioned biotech industry in particular, which has been weaker for the last two years. Do you see that coming back as part of your long term targets is baked, sort of some kind of baked in and return in activity? There's.
Okay, great.
Yeah, thanks for that. So, you know, as we look out, I mean the macro environment, as Peter said, is really hard to predict. And so what we try to do is take a balanced view, knowing that there's some cyclicality, it'll go up, it'll go down, but we sort of take the current state and project that out knowing that it will be a little bit more lumpy in actuality. So it's been a bit of a balanced view.
Okay, thank you, Andrew. Our next question will come from Brad Sills with B of A.
Oh, great.
Hey. Hey guys. Great to see you. Thanks so much for doing this. Great, great to see the long term targets here. I wanted to just ask a question around the key growth driver there, R&D. You know, I look at that slide that shows the cohort of customers, you know, by number of products and you know, you see, you know, a healthy mix of those that are at five or more. I mean if we were looking at this slide in 2030, you know, what would that look like? I mean is there, you know, more room at the high end? You've got a lot more than five products in the stack. And you know, I guess the question is really around what are the keys to expanding that?
Obviously, maturity of product is one, but are there any go to market initiatives such that, you know, cross sell is becoming, you know, more of a focus of just more modules and so anything on the go to market side, that could be key to that too, please? Thank you.
I can take that one. I guess when the products get more mature then we just have more shots on goal. We're so I expect that's just going to go up, the number of products for customers. Right now LIMS is very early, for example, but gosh, a lot of our customers could use LIMS and would use it if it was ready in the rep and selling mode. For example, our CTMS product, we're doing a lot of work, we did a lot of work this year to make our CTMS product more relevant for smaller biotechs so that they can use it for oversight of CROs. Okay, that's going to get more cohorts down into that side. Safety. We have a couple of large customers live on safety.
As more word gets out, okay, we can get more Safety into the large customers and then, you know, it's not a major source of revenue at this time. It probably won't be over time. But another thing we're doing is the Vault Basics where we're reaching down to provide a very simple zero-cost implementation for companies of under 200, under 200 employees. So that's gonna. And when we do that, they often get broad suites at once. They might get a whole suite or a whole, another suite. So that's going to increase. And then there's the fact that we're adding more products. So yes, I don't, I think it's going to be not uncommon in the future. You know, we have 10 Veeva products.
Great, thanks, Peter. And then another question if I might please. On the commercial side, you know, with the replatforming effort, you know, as you get to the other side of this, maybe two years from now where the majority of your big pharma customers are on the new platform, could that be an unlock for that number of average products going higher in the commercial suite? You know, it's been bumping along around four. But again there's a lot more in the suite than four. So you know, just curious if that is, you know, potential hurdle and do you see that as a catalyst as you, as you get through the replatforming?
Oh, it's certainly. Yeah, I'll take that. Apologize. It's certainly a catalyst because. Well, if you look at the macro level at what we're doing, we have we started out in CRM way back when we started on Salesforce.com and then we did some add-on products and then we started Development Cloud. That was. Well and now Development Cloud is bigger than the commercial side because we have that freedom of movement on the Vault Platform. We could create the products that we wanted exactly how we wanted, integrate them together. Now what we're coming back is going on the commercial side and retrofitting the house. We've had two barriers there. One is the barrier of our Salesforce.com contract wouldn't let us do things like Service Center, Campaign Manager, you know, Patient CRM.
So we know we no longer have that barrier and we had a barrier with the IQVIA data too that we have to break through and somewhat we still do with our antitrust lawsuit, but we're starting to make traction there. So in the data products alone, we can have five, six products in there. So if you look at 2030, I would like the commercial area of 2030 to feel very similar to the Development Cloud does now. So it's interesting right where we started and then this is really humming. We got to come back here and run that same playbook. I think sometimes in life sciences people would think, well, that's not possible. The commercial area of sales, medical marketing is just not that organized.
I think partly one of the reasons why it's not that organized now is there's not a good comprehensive tech platform that can help organize it. So it's a significant area of spend for our customers. They actually spend more in sales and marketing than they do in R&D. So that would say there's actually higher potential for technology to help them. So I'm very enthused about sort of commercial 2.0 for Veeva.
Great to hear. Thanks, Peter.
Thanks, Brad.
Our next question will come from the line of .
Hey, how are you? This took a bit to load. Thanks for taking my question. I've just been on concurrent earnings calls, so I'm sorry if you guys already went over this, but I was curious. On pricing, I know you guys give ample heads up on to your customers on CPI adjusted pricing increases, but we do keep hearing from CROs and other. People, companies who serve the same pharma. Markets, about how tough the pricing environment is and how negotiations are. What are you guys seeing and how are you guys able to have an? Upper hand in the pricing conversations in this kind of background environment?
Yeah, I'm happy to take this one. So, you know, first of all, Jenny, I think the way we think about pricing is that we don't do price increases on our product. We have an annual CPI inflation increase and so we do that in a really customer friendly way. So we announced that once a year it applies to every customer. It's well in advance that they can plan for it and then they can put that into their budgets and we roll that through for the next year. And so we don't provide long term guidance around that. But it's been a really good approach that's customer friendly. And we don't get into the game of annual price increases like other companies do. Peter, I don't know if there's anything you want to add to that.
Yeah, I think our customer relationships, we try to keep them very predictable. So we have our subscriptions, we don't increase the prices, we don't lower prices. Usually our systems are really systems of record. So it's not a type of a commodity thing where they're buying it trial by a trial by a trial. So you certainly can ask for lower prices. That's not uncommon. But I think our customers have learned, hey, Veeva is just a very predictable company. And so we try to not spend our effort in this negotiation area, it doesn't help us or our customers. Got it.
Thanks for taking the question.
Thanks Jenny.
Thanks, Jailendra. Our next question will come from Dylan Becker at William Blair.
Oh, you're on mute, Dylan.
Can you guys hear me?
Yep.
Okay, perfect. Thanks for taking my question. I'm on for Dylan. Maybe just thinking of this from an AI perspective, I know you guys touched on. You guys have a simple approach for this, but as you continue to partner with ecosystem players and drive use cases across the R&D and commercial suites, do you have any thought process about how this develops over the next couple years and if it may play into the adoption curves on some of these different product suites and how that all plays into the 2030 targets?
I would say it'll play out gradually as we, you know, as we have more bots and, and they're using more cases. I don't think it'll be the major driver of the adoption of these products because they're, they're really core systems of record that they're, they're putting in for the long term and also they know that they will have to, to get any kind of clean data to put any type of AI on top of it. They'll need core efficient, you know, core systems. So I don't really think it will, but we'll see. We're always monitor it closely and see, see what goes on and adapt from there.
Awesome. Thanks guys.
Thanks.
Thanks, Dave. Our next question and potentially last question will come from David Larson at BTIG.
Hi, can you talk a bit about the elections and what impact that might have on your book of business, if any? We saw with IQVIA sort of major delays. They're saying they were client related, I suspect, and this is just me talking that it might have been election related and they want to see sort of what Robert F. Kennedy Jr. might have in mind with the Trump administration. Any impact at all on your book or not? What do you think?
Yeah, we haven't seen any impact yet. I mean certainly early in the cycle and I think a lot still has to play out, but we have not, it's just, it's generally not part of the conversation that we're having with customers. Remember a lot of the, that we've talked a lot about these core critical systems of record and they're generally planned over longer cycles. So a near term impact, although it might seem significant like an administration change, doesn't necessarily impact that long cycle that they've been planning for. So no, we haven't seen that and I know there's variation and fluctuation in clinical trials and that sort of thing. We also haven't seen the impact of that on our business because remember a lot of that one, it takes time to play through the system.
But two, our business is broad, it's diversified and we're selling enterprise capabilities which are less sensitive to fluctuations in let's say number of clinical trials as an example.
So it sounds like demand is very steady and very consistent despite the challenges and fluctuations we're seeing in the CROs.
It's a good way to characterize it. It's been pretty stable over the last, certainly hasn't changed over the last 60 days since we've given you an update, and I expect it to remain somewhat stable.
And then just one more quick one for me. There's a couple of entities like Doximity as an example and then even LinkedIn where there's a lot of biopharma related digital sales that are pretty scientific and academic in nature. My view is that as you guys develop and expand your CRM solution, you're basically enabling the reps to perform a lot of those functions. Would you agree with that or, or not? Your internal reps are now able to do a lot of that work with your platform. Would you, would you agree or not?
Yeah, I would look at those kinds of channels as additional channels in terms of how customers go to market. So there's third party kind of social network for HCPs like Doximity, potentially like LinkedIn as a communication channel. That's one of many communication channels. I think what we're seeing is with our broad Commercial Cloud portfolio, with products like Crossix, we're able to measure and have insights into what's happening on those platforms and we're able to feed that back into other channels like the field channel, which is highly unique. So we can start to create synergy across those communication channels. So there's a lot of excitement about what we're doing. And I would say the rep doesn't replace those digital channels. The digital channels don't replace the rep. Our opportunity is to bring those closer together and to synchronize how customers do that promotion.
So I think we can our opportunities to make it more effective over time.
Thanks very much. Congratulations on building a great business.
Thanks David. Thanks for the question.
Thanks David. And I think this ends the Q&A portion of our call. Peter, I'll turn it back over to you for any closing comments.
All right, thank you to everyone, to our investors, our shareholders and everyone who joined this call, and thanks to the Veeva team as well for all the great results, and we'll see you on our Q3 earnings call. Thank you.