Please welcome Wiley Collins, EVP Investor Relations and Treasury.
Welcome. Good afternoon, and thank you for joining us for Versant's inaugural Investor Day. We've been working hard to prepare Versant for its journey as an independent company, and we're excited to share our vision for the future. We have a packed agenda today. You'll hear from our leadership team about the businesses that comprise Versant, and you'll also hear from some of our on-air talent and a few of our key partners. We also have a break in the agenda to allow us to catch our breath for at least a few minutes, and at the end of the presentations, we'll have a Q&A session. For those of you with us here today, we also hope you'll join us for a reception after the program.
But before we get to any of that, I would like to draw your attention to the important notice on the screen right now, which concerns forward-looking statements, non-GAAP measures, and other information. But most importantly, let's get the program underway. Thank you once again for joining us, and we'll see you at the Q&A.
Ready?
Set.
Go.
Yeah.
Ready to dance.
Ready.
Ready to dance.
Ready to dance.
Boom. Here we go.
Here it comes. Yes, it is.
There you see the Versant logo.
Wow.
Absolutely magical. We will make history.
Ready to dance.
Oh, take it.
Oh, go, go.
Bummer.
Here comes the world champion.
Oh, my goodness.
The red carpet is heating up. Yeah.
OMG.
OMG.
OMG. Major developments out of Washington.
A lot of breaking news to cover at home and abroad.
If you're looking for some real actual analysis.
We are seeing some relief for the bulls today.
We're also watching one group of stocks that are highly sensitive to commodities.
I think the Nasdaq could be flying tomorrow.
This is going to be different.
This may be the last chance to solve Brandy's case.
He told me everything.
Holy.
Let's get him.
We know you want to look like a certain celebrity, but we don't know who it is.
I finally feel like, you know, I'm marrying my best friend.
It's just like the Brady Bunch, but with no husband.
I'm going to go with everything on the menu.
Are you curious about what's going on here?
We received a distress call from Ark 8.
If you love badass women and good mystery, this show is for you.
Are you ready for?
Reaction is just getting started.
Are you ready for me?
Please welcome Versant's Chief Executive Officer, Mark Lazarus.
Thank you. Thank you. That tape has great energy, and it gives me a lot of energy. Thank you all for being here. We are thrilled to be able to be here today to talk with you about our strategy and our plans. Now, I've spent my entire career in media. That's some 40 years. In that time, I have been a disrupter. I have been disrupted, and I know that this is an incredibly interesting time and a challenging time for our industry. We are certainly aware of the trends, but it is also a time of great opportunity, and I've never been more excited than I am right now because, as you will see today, Versant has a unique set of assets, a dedicated leadership team, and we are prepared to defy expectations, be innovators in the markets that we serve.
This is a company with a mandate to build beyond cable, in fact, beyond media, and we are ready to transform and positioning ourselves to win, so let's dive in. First, Versant is the home to a diversified collection of 11 well-known brands. Our portfolio includes networks, streaming, digital transaction, software solutions, and more. We have spent this last year separating the companies, operating these businesses, and strategically planning for transformation. Unlike most other companies, our brands play an integral role in the lives of our fans, and we know why. Live is still the domain of the television networks, and Versant is there at the moments that people care about.
During the biggest moments for our country, be that election nights or inauguration days, critical moments in the stock market from opening bells to news to breaking news, exhilarating moments on the pitch, the track, the court, or the green, or wherever champions are crowned, or the most talked-about moments in Hollywood by owning the red carpet, if audiences care, we are there, which means that right now, for millions of people, the country's most devoted audiences, not to mention our advertisers and our distributors, Versant is indispensable. Our vision is clear, and you can see it here, but let me read it out loud. Versant is an industry-changing force. I'm going to say that part again. Versant is an industry-changing force in sports, news, and entertainment, home to iconic and trusted brands that inspire, that inform, and delight audiences.
Our unique combination of content and services enrich the cultural fabric, igniting passions, sparking conversations, and connecting people to what they love most. Okay, so what does that exactly mean? Well, at the heart of it, it's about the audiences, the fans, the users, our customers. Last year, 14.4 billion hours of content were watched in our programs. Fully half the country watches our content each and every month, with distribution that puts us well ahead of almost every streamer out there, and it's not just about content. It's also about commerce. Our digital platforms processed 140 million transactions this past year. That includes tee times, movie tickets, video rentals, and video purchases, so this company goes well beyond advertising and subscriptions. It also helps to explain why we'll have such a strong, profitable business from day one.
In fiscal 2025, Versant is expected to generate $6.6 billion in revenue, $2.2 billion in EBITDA, and $1.4 billion in free cash flow. That's a tremendous starting point. We also have an exceptional and experienced management team. Every single person up here has a deep understanding of our industry, a passion for our brands, and most importantly, a strong vision for how to grow their unique audiences and the surrounding businesses. Now, personally, I'm excited for you to be able to meet the team that we've assembled. You're going to hear from the entire top row today about their businesses and about our plans. But I'm also excited for this team because, with this new company, they will have the ability and the resources to invest in these businesses and flex in new ways to bring their best ideas to life.
Our management team will also be supported by a world-class board of directors with experience over decades helping steer public companies, and we're glad that our Board Chair, David Novak, and our Board Member, David Eun, are here with us today. Thank you both for being here. This group will draw on their wide range of expertise across industries, their experience driving innovation and transformation, and I'm thrilled that we will have their guidance. We will operate in four large growing markets: business news and personal finance, political news and opinion, golf and athletics participation, and sports and genre entertainment, and what you'll see is that every single one of these, we have a beloved brand, very large and loyal audiences, financial scale, powerful digital platforms that take us beyond television, and in many cases, beyond media. In each and every one, there are strong growth opportunities.
Yes, we have big TV revenues, but that only scratches the surface, so let me take you through each of these one- by- one. First, business news and personal finance. This is upwards of a $20 billion market, with more people looking to understand the 24/7 markets and looking for timely information about trends impacting their portfolios now more than ever. We are the market leaders with CNBC. Since 2019, the number of retail investors has gone up 40% to 107 million people, and the audience for online business and financial news has grown 25%. CNBC is the number one global business media brand. It is also the leading digital site for business news and the number one media outlet for top CEOs and C-suite executives to get their message out, and if you look at the market for political news and opinion, you'll see a very similar story.
The audience that's interested in political issues and current events has grown 35% since 2019 to a total of 75 million people, and once again, Versant leads with MSNow. MSNow was the number two rated network in every genre for seven straight years and is the number three network so far in 2025, with a lot of momentum since last month's election, where we were the dominant network. In addition to the success on television, it's also the number one digital site for political news and the number one news brand on YouTube in 2024. That shows real range, real scale, real market power. We move to the golf industry. This is a $45 billion market, and it's growing fast both on and off the course, with 59 million fans and counting, up 37% in just two years.
Versant is at the center of this momentum, capturing 40% of all golf hours watched, with more live golf than all other networks combined. We also deliver a suite of services to golfers and golf courses, which you'll hear more about in just a minute. There's lots of opportunity in golf, and we're ready to continue to deliver high-quality media and services for our fans and the broader golf industry. And then there's the broadest and biggest market of them all, sports and entertainment. The popularity for this just keeps increasing with 700 billion hours watched in the industry, and it's a $200 billion market. Audiences continue to gravitate toward these cultural moments, and that command real attention and scale.
From USA on television with the number one scripted original this year in The Rainmaker to Fandango for movie tickets or to buy or rent and stream at-home video, Rotten Tomatoes for review and discovery, to E! Syfy and Oxygen for pop culture, science fiction, and true crime, all genres with proven digital, live, and microtransaction revenue success, we are big in TV, and we have large digital audiences with huge transactional volume. Now, across all of these markets, two big things really differentiate us from the rest. First, it's the strength of our brands, and you can see they are well-known across the country with near-total awareness, and as I mentioned, these are big, profitable portfolios, which have been historically managed with different priorities. Investing to build these brands was simply not a priority. I was managing some of them.
They were under-resourced, but that won't be the case anymore. Now we will invest back into the business. The second element that differentiates us is our focus on live programming. Live programming is a major driver of today's total TV audience and accounts for more than a third of the viewing this past year compared to just a quarter just a few years back. At Versant, 62% of our audience comes from live programming, largely across sports and news. Live TV is hard. We produce a lot of it. It's what the audiences are looking for. We do it really well. Not that many people do. And by the way, the influence of our audience is truly remarkable. Just think about Morning Joe and Squawk Box. We are reaching the most important people in the world live every day.
We also have long-term relationships with sports leagues, including the PGA Tour and NASCAR, who are fantastic partners, and their leaders are here with us today, and you'll meet them in just a few moments. Just take a look at all of our exclusive programming. We've invested in established leagues like the PGA Tour and NASCAR, as well as the Premier League and WWE. We're also investing in the rapidly growing fan bases across women's sports like golf, volleyball, the WNBA. And finally, there's the Olympics, which, while not exclusive to us, will be on our air live from Milan in a few weeks and again in 2028 from Los Angeles, as well as a large array of college sports. We also continue to invest in sports. We recently announced an extension of our USGA partnership and a new partnership with the Pac-12.
The 62% mix of Versant's audience across live news and sports puts us ahead of established competitors like Paramount, WBD, and Disney on a percentage basis. With this mix of must-see programming, we're entering the market with significant scale right out of the gate. Whether you measure scale by the time people spend with us or the number of addressable homes we reach, Versant rivals that of almost every streamer in the market. Live programming continues to drive audiences, and most of our live events spanning news, sports, and entertainment are exclusive to our platforms and can't be found anywhere else. I'm going to repeat that: exclusive to our platforms and can't be found anywhere else, which makes Versant a valuable partner to advertisers and our pay-TV distribution partners.
You can see this when you look at the details of our audience scale in our core markets and how we stack up against our competitors with leading positions in business news, political news and opinion, and golf. The rest of our content, the 38%, comes from entertainment programming, a mix of live moments, scripted and unscripted programming, and an incredible library that we own and can monetize in new ways, in some cases monetized for the very first time. With this strong foundation, we have a multi-part strategy to win. First, we're going to win with premium content. Content is who we are and what we do best. Our TV business is still big and profitable, and we'll be able to lever our brands. Second, we're going to keep expanding our audience beyond the pay-TV ecosystem.
We're going to reach new customers, whether that's through new video distribution channels or new experiences like podcasts, live events, or transactional. In other words, growth. A third is we're going to scale and launch digital platforms from growing already successful platforms like GolfNow and Fandango to developing new offerings and services that harness the momentum of our trusted brands and that scale of our audiences, and that translates to more growth. And finally, we will do all of this with a relentless focus on operating efficiency and a disciplined capital allocation with our strong balance sheet at the core. That includes directing capital to pursue opportunities that align closely with our strategy as we work to turn our diverse portfolio of brands into an even more diverse set of revenue streams.
We are making acquisitions like Free TV Networks and IndieCinema, which will extend our leadership to new audiences and services. Anand will share more on these in a few minutes. While we're not afraid to, we're also not afraid to consider value-maximizing options for businesses that may not perfectly fit or align with our new direction. It's exactly what we're doing right now with SportsEngine, where we're exploring strategic alternatives. If you take a quick look at our 2024 revenue mix, 83% of our revenue came from our network businesses in some form, while 17% came from our digital platforms and other non-pay-TV resources. Over the next few years, we're going to evolve each of these business models to be more balanced, and every strategic decision we are making is with that goal in mind.
As you can see, in each of our four markets, we are in various stages of this evolution, and how we shift is going to be determined by specific market dynamics and opportunities and needs of our consumers and our fans. Let me give you an example of how we did this already with our golf business. It's the most developed of the businesses we operate in that regard, and it's the best indicator of where we're headed. Fifteen years ago, our golf business was just the Golf Channel, but then we started investing. We acquired the nascent but rapidly growing GolfNow, which is a business where golfers can book online tee times similar to OpenTable or Resy for restaurant reservations. And that took our golf revenues outside of pay-TV. We then started branching into software for golf courses, and we've seen enormous success there.
We recently also added a digital subscription business called GolfPass, where golfers get exclusive content and learn from the great Rory McIlroy and gain other benefits from their membership, like tee times and rewards. So right now, when you look at our overall golf business, about half of our revenue comes from pay-TV, and half comes from GolfNow and our other related services that we offer. We are not in the golf media business. We are in the golf business. And that is the model for what Versant will do across all of our verticals: investment and growth powered by our trusted brands, knowing that we'll have to execute an approach that will be tailored for each of our specific markets and each specific brand. I want to say in closing, Versant's competitive advantage is clear. We are not stuck in old media.
We are being unleashed to grow further and grow our businesses beyond the bundle. Our mission is to expand beyond the multi-channel universe, and these vertical markets all have significant opportunities. In fact, one of our definitions of Versant is vertically ascendant, and we are well on our way. We are a leader in four large and growing markets that are vital to their audiences and their partners, with live programming you just can't miss. We have an experienced management team that is ready to run with these businesses and to use this unique combination of financial scale and flexibility to invest today as we build for tomorrow, and now, to tell you more about our strategy and our plans of how exactly we're going to go about this, please welcome my friend, my partner, our COO and CFO, Anand Kini.
So thank you, Mark, and thank you all for being here. So you just heard Mark review our growth strategy. And that growth strategy is the foundation of our business model, and it's also how we plan to drive significant shareholder value. And we're going to drive it really across three dimensions. So first, our exclusive, mostly live programming and brands make us economically advantaged in Pay-TV. So as a result, we have and will continue to have a highly profitable portfolio of networks. Second, our network leadership and brand strength enables us to grow by expanding our audience and building digital platforms that address a full spectrum of consumer needs in markets that we know very, very well. As you just saw, these markets are very large, totaling hundreds of billions of dollars, and we believe we have a lot of room to grow share.
So our business model isn't just about harvesting current success, but rather it's on building and extending it. And then third, this all comes together to form a stable, highly cash-generating business, driving immediate returns to shareholders while we concurrently transition to a growth platform long-term. We think there are few, if any, other companies that can pursue and execute this strategy. It takes programming that audiences want and can't get anywhere else: brands that consumers love, leadership in growing dynamic markets, a proven track record of building growth platforms, and a well-capitalized financial model that enables the investment. Versant checks every one of those boxes. So now I'd like to dig deeper into each element of that growth strategy and the impact on our business. So let me begin with how we are going to continue to win with premium content and how that underpins our success in pay-TV.
Let me start with some table setting. We're all aware of the structural challenges facing pay-TV, and they are real, whether that's moderate cord cutting, audience fragmentation, or digital competition. However, at the same time, pay-TV is a massive audience platform that we believe will remain highly relevant for many years to come. So even with all the growth in streaming, pay-TV still represents two-thirds of all professional video hours consumed and virtually all the hours of sports and news watched. So in other words, while it's not a growth business, we believe pay-TV's demise has been significantly exaggerated, and we're confident it will be an important part of the media ecosystem and highly profitable for many years to come. And this isn't only because of pay-TV's vast scale. It's also because of our success in this market. We are winning in pay-TV due to our differentiated exclusive content.
There's a specific example that I think illustrates our success and also highlights how Versant is a leading voice in the biggest moments for our country. For that, let's go back to the 2024 election. At every moment on that road to election day, MSNow was there and massive audiences watched. From the State of the Union in March, which generated the largest State of the Union audience in MSNow's history, to the very first Harris-Walz rally when MSNow was the top-rated network in all of TV, to the Democratic National Convention when yet again it was the top-rated TV network beating all competitors in cable and broadcast, and then to election night, where MSNow once more enjoyed great success. Put very simply, MSNow was the place to see and understand what was happening. This isn't only about 2024.
So just last month, MSNow was the number one network in all of cable on election night, and you're going to hear more about that from Rebecca in a little bit. And we're going to keep building on this momentum into the 2026 midterms, the 2028 presidential election, and all points in between. Just like with major news events, there are countless examples of our success and value in sports. Mark already talked about our breadth in sports, but we also have great depth, and I think it's the combination of those two that make us truly indispensable for sports fans. So we have more NASCAR Cup Series races than any other platform. We have 45% of all Premier League soccer matches aired. We're the only outlet that's going to have more than 50 WNBA games, including the playoffs.
Where WWE's largest television network partner with live events every week of the year, and we have more than two times as many PGA Tour events as any other network, and in just a few weeks, we're going to be airing 475 hours of the Milan Olympics. Importantly, other than the Olympics, all of these sporting events are exclusive to Versant, so viewers can't get them in any other way. Now, whether it's through sports or news or entertainment, Versant's brands reach the entire U.S., and they really connect people to what they love. Our programming resonates broadly across various demographics and also attracts some of the most sought-after audiences. It's really what makes our network so valuable, whether you're talking about audiences, distributors, or marketers, so in America's heartland, it might be NASCAR and the WWE. In urban areas, it could be the Premier League, PGA Tour, or CNBC.
And of note there, the Golf Channel and CNBC feature audiences with the highest household income across both all TV networks and the largest streamers. Or if you're looking to reach women and also a lot of men, it's the WNBA, MSNow, or E!. The point is, no matter what part of the country or what kind of audience, Versant is the place for hugely popular, exclusive, and live programming. And that's just our existing audience. Our brands and market leadership enable us to reach new audiences, expanding and growing our business. These new audiences will be from outside pay-TV. So pay-TV today comprises 67 million households, where we are very well positioned with broadly distributed networks and a profitable business model. And yet, this is still only about half of U.S. households.
So to reach the other half, we are going beyond pay-TV through things like AVOD and SVOD, over-the-air and social media, and also entirely different non-video formats like audio and live events. And through these new distribution channels, we can nearly double our audience reach and monetize our content in new ways. That's going to evolve our revenue mix and drive growth. And importantly, this isn't just some kind of aspiration or future plan, but rather it's an effort already well underway. And on this, we have momentum. So whether it's our news digital sites, apps, YouTube presence, live events, all of which are market leaders, to adding over-the-air distribution to Oxygen Network. So we reach new viewers who can access the network through an antenna. And that now currently accounts for about 20% of Oxygen's audience.
And as Versant, we're now investing in a new set of growth drivers to further expand the audience: things like a D2C service for MSNow fans, a Fandango ad-supported streaming offering, and an acquisition of a company called Free TV Networks. You're going to hear about all three of these today, but let me spend a little bit of time on that very last one. I mentioned that about half of U.S. households are not pay-TV subscribers. And to help address these households, we recently entered into an agreement in principle to acquire Free TV Networks. If you're wondering what the company does, well, the name kind of says it all. It offers free ad-supported networks delivered on a digital broadcast over the air. So consumers access these networks at no cost, either through a physical antenna or through certain video distributors.
And then through its long-term carriage agreements with local stations across the country, Free TV Networks reaches basically all U.S. households with a TV. The company was founded by Jonathan Katz, and he had built a similar business, which he sold to Scripps Networks back in 2017. So he has a proven track record of growing these businesses rapidly. The company currently has four networks, each of which target a distinct audience with relevant library titles from third-party studios. And over time, we plan to add Versant Series to the programming schedule as well. And we potentially will add new networks too. While Free TV Networks is only two years old, it's already seeing really good traction with audience and advertising. Now, as to why we're bullish on this business, it's really because the fundamentals of the business and the industry are very strong.
So the aggregate over-the-air audience is increasing industry-wide. There's about 20 million households today access TV exclusively over-the-air, and that represents about 16% of all households in the U.S. And importantly, this represents just viewers who use their antennas exclusively. The available market for OTA networks is much larger than that because it also includes, for example, those who can access OTA networks through their video distributors. And with home antennas now costing as little as $20 and streaming service prices continuing to increase, over-the-air has emerged as a very cost-effective option for consumers. And we see these favorable trends in ratings. So two of the top 25 rated networks in all of TV are in this over-the-air category. And competitor over-the-air networks are realizing double-digit ratings growth year- on- year.
The audience strength then is translating to healthy monetization, with scaled OTA portfolios generating hundreds of millions of revenue, and to be clear, Free TV Networks is small today, but we plan to invest, and the growth potential is significant, and the business naturally extends to FAST channels too, and then more broadly, this business is aligned with our strategy of expanding audience, addressing non-pay-TV homes, and driving growth, so I just reviewed now some plans on how we're going to reach new audiences. I'd now like to cover how we're thinking of launching and scaling our digital platforms because that's also a way that we expect to meaningfully grow and evolve Versant's revenue mix, so today we operate two large popular platforms in GolfNow and Fandango. These platforms have done really well, but there's still a lot of untapped opportunity.
Just to take one example, despite its leadership in golf course management software and tee time reservations, GolfNow is only used by about a quarter of golf courses and represents less than 10% of total golf rounds booked. It's a very similar story for Fandango in terms of its relative share. With the strength of these products and the size of the relevant markets, the opportunity to gain share is clear, and that's a focus of our investment and execution plans. You're going to hear more specifics on exactly how we plan to increase share from Will McIntosh, the leader of those platforms, later today. At the same time, we are also focused on developing new platforms. So for Fandango, we're moving into the business-to-business services, much like we did with GolfNow. We're doing so through the acquisition of IndieCinema, which makes a software platform for cinema operators.
For GolfNow, we're expanding internationally, and we will take our expertise to new markets, including a CNBC subscription service focused on the retail investor. You're going to hear more about the CNBC and golf opportunities later, so let me dig into that first example, IndieCinema. So Indie offers the only full-service operating system for cinema operators. It's a comprehensive solution addressing all operator needs, going from ticketing to point of sale to inventory management to real-time analytics and more. It basically encompasses everything a cinema operator needs to run their business. We think IndieCinema has the best product in the market with a great opportunity to win significant share. So most existing technology services for cinema operators, they're legacy-based, they're challenging to implement, and they're fragmented. In contrast, Indie offers a modern cloud-based platform with significant native functionality as well as integration to top third-party services.
So it offers a unified one-stop solution. It's also global in scope, as Indie brings customers from around the world. So with Fandango's deep relationships with cinema operators, we're well positioned to grow Indie by offering it together with our existing Fandango ticketing service. Indie is already generating significant cost savings and incremental revenue for its customers, and we are confident that we will now do so for a much larger universe. And that includes more than just cinemas, even if that's our initial focus. We see potential to support thousands of other entertainment venues, which taken together comprise an over $50 billion marketplace. Financially, our acquisition of IndieCinema and pending purchase of Free TV Networks don't impact our capital position and liquidity much at all. And we expect them to positively and quickly contribute to the P&L.
These deals underscore how we identify and execute upon strategic opportunities to drive Versant's growth. We look for businesses that are aligned with our four-core markets, focused on natural extensions of our brands, and help transition our business model, because that's how we win. As Mark said, we win with more premium content reaching more people as we expand our audience and driving more experiences, services, and platforms. Then that translates to a strong, dynamic business that can drive value in the short, medium, and long term. Now you're going to hear from each of our business leads about where we're headed. And we're going to start with CNBC and Casey Sullivan.
You want big. You want important. You want game-changing.
If you're just waking up, you're going to want to pay attention to this. The action is just getting started. We've been following this deal for quite some time. We are putting $600 billion to work. Yesterday's NBA owners meeting was shocking. Movies will be one of the last things to be replaced by AI. It's a real bet on growth. CNBC has never been so busy. The largest IPO of the year so far. Tariff impact is showing up already. Straight to the Asia markets at this hour. If you like earnings, you're going to love this week. Another record high for stocks ahead of a very big week for your money. A great part about live TV is you get to see the answer. This is the greatest show on earth.
Please welcome Casey Sullivan, President of CNBC.
Good afternoon, everyone. That video captures everything that I love about this brand.
I've been lucky enough to be part of CNBC for more than a decade as CFO, head of our international business, and leader of the global ad sales strategy, and for the last three years as president. Every day, I'm reminded that now, more than ever, CNBC is a powerful, essential global brand. You may have noticed our new logo. It's a symbol of the direction where we're headed and the exciting new chapter we're headed into. We are the number one destination for global business media. Our insights reach 500 million people around the world every month. And in my mind, just as important as our scale is who we reach.
As you've heard already, the most influential CEOs and leaders turn to CNBC, with more than 200 CEOs of S&P 500 companies appearing on our air in the past year, and it's not just the business world. We've had over 180 interviews with top administration officials, including President Trump in 2025. They all come to CNBC because they know what we stand for: reporting that is fast, accurate, actionable, and unbiased. Our balanced perspective has made us the epicenter for all things business, where the leaders of major public and private companies come to set the global agenda, and as a result, for 30 years, we've cultivated the most highly educated and most affluent audience in all of cable television. The numbers confirm CNBC is winning the decision-makers that move markets and shape the global economy, like financial industry professionals, retail investors, and high-net-worth individuals.
These are the valuable, sought-after viewers that our guests, partners, and advertisers want to reach, and no one else can attract, but our relationship extends far beyond just TV. We enjoy leading scale with our global digital assets as well, with the most visitors and most time spent. We want to super serve our audience wherever and whenever they turn to us, whether that's on our network, global digital platforms, YouTube channels, newsletters, or through subscription products like CNBC Pro, and I want to be clear. While the business news space may be crowded, the unique combination of brand strength and engagement puts CNBC in a class of its own, with no meaningful competition in our space. It's why CNBC is already making headway towards diversifying our revenue mix, and we're just going to keep that momentum going.
Now, that all starts by continuing to deliver premium business news content, whether that's Joe Kernan, Becky Quick, and Andrew Ross Sorkin holding a Fortune 500 CEO to account right here at the Nasdaq, or Jim Cramer and Carl Quintanilla broadcasting live from the floor of the New York Stock Exchange, or David Faber breaking news on a major M&A deal on the Faber Report. That unrivaled access of our world-class talent means that we can deliver exclusive, timely information in the moments that matter. We're committed to reaching even more consumers with this information through video and other formats, like events and podcasts. Now, we have many vehicles to drive that growth, but today I'd like to focus on two specific areas. First, given the value of our platforms, brands, and audiences, CNBC is a compelling partner for premier business and financial firms.
So we'll continue to develop strategic partnerships that accelerate our growth. And second, we see an opportunity to expand our own platforms to address broader consumer needs and interests. I'll start with the partnership approach. We're constantly evaluating partners that value the strength and credibility of our brand, the quality of our journalism, and the power of our audience. But we're also looking for companies that are leaders in the sectors driving today's economy so that we can extend our offering to the areas our audience cares about most. We've done this by aligning with AI companies to develop new products for our consumers, exploring audience needs around crypto, and today by stepping into an exciting emerging asset class, the prediction markets.
If you've been watching CNBC, you know that prediction markets are quickly shaping how investors and business leaders think about important events, whether the Fed will increase interest rates, who will win the next presidential election. So today, I'm pleased to announce that CNBC has entered an agreement with Kalshi, the leading prediction market platform. There are three ways this relationship will work. First, it will enhance our editorial coverage. Every day, our anchors and analysts unpack the biggest questions facing companies and the economy. And now they'll have access to exclusive data from Kalshi to more deeply understand public consensus in real time. Second, there's a significant growth opportunity for our business. As part of this deal, Kalshi's prediction markets will be profiled across our platforms. We've also agreed to a multi-year commercial relationship around advertising and customer acquisition.
Finally, Kalshi will help us connect with a generation of younger, digitally native audiences. Since many of Kalshi's users are under the age of 40 and increasingly consume business news through data-driven formats, we will also have an exclusive markets page on Kalshi's platform. And I should say this is just one example of how CNBC is forging new strategic partnerships to deliver accelerated growth. Another way that we'll deliver growth is by investing in new services that expand both our audience and monetization. We're taking deliberate steps to evolve our entire digital ecosystem with a clear priority around subscription, reflecting our deep belief in the value of quality journalism. So we asked ourselves, where do we have a right to play and the resources to offer a compelling, differentiated, and superior solution? And the answer could not be clearer: the retail investor.
You heard earlier about the rise of retail investing. This is an impressive growing market with millions of active retail investors who represent over $5 billion in weekly trading inflows, and many are already CNBC fans. We know these investors already subscribe to services to support their investing and financial needs. In fact, households earning over $200,000 pay for, on average, three finance-related subscriptions, and there is a market of 18 million people who are both active retail investors and business news subscribers. That tells us something important. There's a major opportunity here. With CNBC Pro, we already have the foundation and an established audience that is able and willing to pay, but we're ready to go further. Here's what investors have told us. Current subscription products are fragmented, subscale, narrow in focus, and lack the trust and depth that CNBC can provide.
What they want is stock recommendations, tools and data, real-time information, and a smart, actionable analysis from a brand that they trust. And get this: half of consumers we surveyed say that all four of those elements matter most in a business news product. So we're evolving CNBC Pro and launching a new product that brings all of this together, + robust portfolio tracking, advanced charting, AI-powered quantitative analysis, and community tools. Supporting all of these features is a deeply personalized experience that harnesses the power of AI to deliver content feeds that are tailored to each individual user. Work's already underway to build this comprehensive must-have service for the retail investor. And over time, we'll explore other areas of interest like wealth, energy, options. So in closing, let me say this: it's not lost on me that most in this room know CNBC intimately.
It's a privilege to play such an important role in what you all do day in and day out. And it's in conversations I've had with so many of you in this room about what CNBC means to business and the markets and how we can raise the bar even higher. That's what gives me tremendous faith in the future of CNBC. So as you've heard today, that future is already coming into focus. And I'm proud to be part of the journey. And knowing that I'm in a room full of investors, we wouldn't be super serving our audience if I didn't give you some exclusive CNBC content. So I'm pleased to welcome two people who are instrumental in our efforts: our Editor-in-Chief, David Cho, and Co-anchor of CNBC's Squawk Box, Andrew Ross Sorkin.
Thank you. Good afternoon, everybody.
It's a privilege here to be with David, somebody I've actually been competing against in a way for a long time. You've been in this business now 30 years.
Yeah, long time.
Long time. You've been at Barron's, you've been at Washington Post, and you came to lead CNBC. Just about in August now.
Yeah, that's right. Four months.
So the big question is you had a pretty good gig before this. Why did you decide to take on this opportunity and to come to Versant?
Oh, to hang with you, of course, on this stage. No, no. I mean, listen, there's a lot that went into it, but I would say a big reason why I decided to come is actually because of the spin. You know, that may sound strange, but to me, the spin represented opportunity.
It represented we would be free to go for it, to innovate, to form partnerships, some of which Casey talked about, whether it's Kalshi or an artificial intelligence company. We would be free to sort of go for it. But the spin, to me, also meant that you'd be urgent for us to do it. There'd be pressure. You know, I kind of wanted that startup mentality. It's just the great thing about CNBC is we're well-capitalized, and then we also have an established name brand. We don't have the same struggles of other startups. My only question really was, is the leadership team right? You know, is it a right group of people? And as I got to know Casey, Anand, and Laz, you know, I felt this was the right team to join. You know, they were urgent, they're idea-oriented, they don't really operate on egos.
Like in the discussions, we get to truth and ideas. It's been a great team. So I think we can take some really big swings.
Okay, so here's the question that I have for you. Because you've, and we've, as I said, we've both been competing against each other in this space for a long time. I want to know how you think business journalism has fundamentally changed over the period of time that you've been in it now, but maybe more importantly, where you think it all goes, what it actually ends up looking like as we're all sitting here trying to figure out the future.
Yeah, well, listen, it's journalism and business journalism in particular, it's always changing. It's been changing for all the entire 30 years I've been in it.
But if you look at the landscape now, actually, there are news organizations that are doing very well. They're like growing revenues, they're growing in prominence. And what they're doing is they're putting up, and we've seen this kind of increase over the past couple of years, they are increasingly emphasizing exclusive, high-quality content. And they're asking people to pay for it. And I don't think everybody can do this. Like, I think local journalism has really struggled in this regard. And there's some that just chase cheaper clicks, and now they're struggling to put up paywalls. Let me tell you, CNBC definitely is worth paying for. It's definitely worth paying for. If you think about by the time Jim Cramer wraps, we've got about 80-85 interviews a day. Many of them are exclusive, the stuff that you can only get at CNBC.
Those stories, those journalism, they move markets. Let me give you a couple of examples from the past few weeks. A few weeks ago, Kraft Heinz announced that they were going to explore splitting. Mac and Cheese was divorcing from ketchup, basically. Later that afternoon, your co-host, Becky Quick, she called me and said, "I have an exclusive here that the guy who put ketchup and Mac and Cheese together and is their biggest shareholder, Warren Buffett, is not happy about this." We broke that story on air. We published a story, we alerted it at that moment, and the stock moved 7% off that story. It moved because that story came from a trusted brand and a trusted journalist. You've probably experienced this a lot of times too, as you've sort of done this.
Around that same time, actually, we broke one of the biggest stories in technology, which was the $100 billion deal between OpenAI and NVIDIA, and when we broke that story on air, and we broke it online too, the markets were down 1%, and the markets ended up up 1%. That story literally moved the markets 2%, and if you're anywhere in business or in technology or in the markets, that information isn't nice to have. It's essential to have. You have to have that in the moment it's breaking. You know, if you love Mac and Cheese , you'd probably want to read that story too, so I think if you look at that, I'm pretty confident people will pay for that. Companies will pay for that. You know, there are partnerships to be done with artificial intelligence firms on all of this. The future is bright on that front.
Okay, so here's a question for you. One of the craziest things that I find about my job is not just who we have on our broadcast and the exclusive news that we're able to bring people, but actually who's watching it in real time. Which is to say, I think myself, Joe, and Becky every single morning, as we're looking down at our email and oftentimes our phone, are getting literally text messages from some of the leading CEOs in America to the White House, and you can feel it, you can see it.
Sometimes they're writing in real time about a guest that's coming up or a question that was asked saying, you know, "I can't believe this is happening," or, you know, "You should really go figure this out." And my question to you is not just how important it is to be able to capture that audience, but what you think you're going to need to do to keep and grow that audience.
Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, I was in the control room, I think, when I was watching you guys down at the NASDAQ. And literally this morning, you were talking about housing and the Fed. There were Trump administration officials tweeting at you, answering the questions that you were raising on air in real time. It's amazing to see just our power to convene and to gather that influential people.
I saw it at your 30th Squawk party too. Just the people in that room, it was like the power brokers of business and politics and Bill Murray. You know.
Bill Murray and Warren Buffett at the time.
Warren Buffett, there we go. But that's a very unique part of CNBC, this power to convene. And, you know, so I'll say how do we have to keep that and continue to put out high-quality programming, no question. But I also think a big part of CNBC's future is that you take the greatness of what we're doing on cable and you bring it before the massive audience we have online. But you've got to bring it into forms that digital audiences will consume it. Not all digital audiences will just take in the cable stream raw. So that may be part of it.
But I think if you put it in forms they can really absorb it, then we're going to expose huge audiences to our highest quality content.
Okay, final question. We talk about leadership on Squawk Box all the time, the philosophy of leadership and who's good at it, who's not good at it. I'm curious right now, when you think about the leadership in the world of news, of live, you know, what does it actually take to be effective now? And how is that different than before?
Yeah, I mean, there's a, listen, there's many answers to this. I think the guests on Squawk would have many answers to this. I mean, I guess to me right now in this moment, what you see is essential over and over again is leadership in the midst of change. And we've got to be adaptable.
We've got to understand how platforms are changing, the rise of LLMs. We've got to be flexible and adapt to that. Let me give you like an example of this. You know, Casey talked about this outreach to retail investors. I think we have incredible expertise on air on shows like Halftime and Fast Money. Some of the biggest names in investing are on our air every day. You know, one of our keys is to take that greatness, those names, because investing, like you can get investing information, but investing decisions are often made because you trust the person that's telling it to you. When Jim Cramer says, "Buy this dip," or "Don't buy this dip," it creates waves because people know him and they trust him and he's been around in investing for so long.
So taking all of that and bringing it into the digital space will be one of our keys. But that's going to take a change in how we do things. You know, the two newsrooms are going to really have to work together, communicate, see this future together, and so leadership at CNBC will be bringing that kind of unity in the newsroom.
David, I want to thank you. I know you're excited. I'm here because I'm excited about this. I genuinely am, and now I want to turn it over to our colleagues from MSNow, which I'm also very excited about.
Thank you. Appreciate it.
Thank you. Thank you. Thanks.
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. We the free, we the proud, we the brave, we the people.
Please welcome Rebecca Kutler, President of MSNow.
I think I might have seen that video about a thousand times, and I still say wow every time. And that is why we are just so thrilled to be here with you and share with you our vision for MSNow and tell you about what we are building. It's about the power of democracy and what it means to be both an informed and an engaged audience.
That is what will be at the core of everything we do as a brand moving forward. Because our audience knows that we, MSNow, is the place for politics. I spent my entire career at the intersection of politics and news, covering breaking stories, producing presidential debates and election nights, and leading newsroom innovations in a rapidly changing media ecosystem. And I am leveraging every ounce of that experience as we write this next chapter for MSNow. This is an exciting time for our business. As you all just heard from Mark, political news is a growth category. So let me walk you through a few facts that might surprise you. Let's start by looking at the entire $59 billion cable business. We often hear about the impact of sports, which is important.
But did you know that it's news programming that accounts for 25% of all hours watched on cable, including billions of hours on MSNow? Right now, three of the top five cable networks in the United States are all political news. It's also true on podcasts, YouTube, TikTok, three important platforms where we are active and we are growing. There is so much energy and interest in political media right now. And that is only going to ramp up as we look ahead to 2026, a pivotal midterm election, and 2028, the next presidential race. And MSNow, we are poised to capitalize on all of this momentum. While the challenges of cord cutting are real, our viewers are bucking some of those trends. In fact, MSNow viewers are 60% less likely to cut the cord, making our network must carry for pay TV distribution partners.
And over the last decade, as much of the industry saw substantial declines, we at MSNow have nearly doubled our audience in prime time. Let me repeat that. We have doubled our audience in prime time. And beyond viewership numbers, our business is strong. Over the last five years, we have delivered the highest revenue in our network's three-decade history. In other words, despite the headwinds of cord cutting, when you look at the two metrics that matter the most in our business, the dedication of our audience and our financials, MSNow has a strong story to tell. Let me show you another fact that I think is going to surprise you. The MSNow audience is a lot more politically diverse than most people realize. Yes, Democrats are and always will be essential to our brand and our DNA. But they're actually only about half of our audience.
The other half, independents and Republicans. And when we look at the growth of our audience, the broad appeal that we talked about, that has been a big driver of our recent success. MSNow has seen double-digit growth from Democrats, independents, and Republicans. And we are the only news network that can say that. Of course, there are still ebbs and flows in television viewership. You already heard about the attention we command during an election year. And while it has hardly been a slow year for news, it is what I actually like to call the off-season for politics. In 2025, we are seeing exactly the level of volatility in our audience that we would expect after a presidential campaign. But that volatility, it does not diminish MSNow's track record of growth over the long term. Look at this.
20 years ago, we were averaging 375,000 viewers in prime time. 10 years ago, 686,000. Today, that number has grown to nearly 1.2 million viewers. That is a steady growth trajectory over the past two decades. And as the midterms take center stage in our political conversations, we expect viewership increases to follow once again. We're already getting a glimpse of our potential. A few weeks ago on election night, as the results rolled in and candidates took to stages around the country, MSNow, we were number one across all of cable, not just cable news, all of cable. And that momentum, it did not end on that Tuesday night. In the weeks following the election, our viewership was up 34% across the day in total viewers.
So in many ways, this is just the opening act for what we expect the potential for the next three years to look like. At the same time, we are rapidly growing in ways that go beyond traditional ratings. Let's look at the entire MSNow ecosystem, which is designed to reach our audience on a growing number of platforms. One example that comes to mind, a recent interview we did with Speaker Mike Johnson. It was right before the longest government shutdown in history. He sat down with our senior Capitol Hill reporter, Ali Vitali. It was a conversation they had. It aired on Morning Joe, and then we put that same interview, we put it on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, YouTube, and that powered the entire news cycle, and the numbers bear this out.
When we consider the whole MSNow ecosystem, we have one of the most loyal and engaged audiences in all of media. Let me give you a few stats. Our fans, they are loyal. They consume an average of eight hours of MSNow on cable each week. We call that engagement. And MSNow has ranked first or second in engagement in all of cable for eight consecutive calendar years. Our fans, they are online. They spend more time on our website than any other political news site. And our fans are social across TikTok and YouTube. In 2025, our YouTube channel has driven more views than CBS News, NBC News, and ABC News combined. We are running neck and neck with Fox for first place this year. And nowhere is that cross-platform appeal of MSNow more evident than in our growing podcast business.
This is allowing us to reach new audiences and monetize our content in new ways. We are quickly building a strong slate. This includes audio-native megahits and showcasts that extend the reach of our top programming. This year, MSNow is on track to see more than 135 million podcast downloads, far more than many of our digital-first competitors. And we are excited to continue investing in this space, with new shows continuing to drop. Just this week, Rachel Maddow presents Burn Order. It dropped just a few days ago. It's already near the top of the Apple Podcasts charts. In short, MSNow enters a new era as a proud Versant brand. We are starting from a position of strength. So much of our strength, it's derived from our trusted talent. They reach loyal audiences across multiple platforms. Let's look at this example.
Nicolle Wallace. She also launched a podcast this year, The Best People. It shot to the top of the Apple charts. It stayed there for three consecutive weeks in number one, and now we can take each of those podcast episodes. Of course, we put them on YouTube, but we also give them a weekend slot on linear television. This makes us more efficient and more effective at reaching our audiences everywhere they consume content, and then there's Morning Joe. It's the most watched cable morning show in the nation's capital. It's where the country's top politicians and policymakers turn to see and be seen by their colleagues.
Joe and Mika's high-profile viewers are a premium demographic, which is why, as the show prepares to mark its 20th anniversary, they have just launched a newsletter to extend their influence into the afternoon and further engage one of the most coveted audiences in all of television, but beyond our headliners, we are building something new, an independent news-gathering operation. It is driving the headlines. It is led by the Emmy, Murrow, Pulitzer, and Peabody Award-winning journalists that you see here, and our reporters are already making an impact. We are breaking exclusive stories ahead of our competitors and delivering essential coverage to our audience, so as you can see, we are building something here with a plan to expand by pulling multiple growth levers for our business over the next few years. First and foremost, the path to the 2028 presidential election will run through MSNow.
And if recent history is any guide, that means double-digit audience growth. I want everyone to remember that right after the midterms, basically one year from today, the 2028 election kicks off. We expect MSNow to be the home to many of the cycle's biggest live moments across two contested primaries and the general election. And I think it's fair to say that every candidate will need to spend time with our audience. On top of that, next year, we will be unveiling the first-ever D2C offering for the MSNow community. You already heard how this fits into Versant's overall strategy. But let me speak to what this means for MSNow. This is an inflection point for our brand and for our business. In MSNow's 30-year history, there has never been a serious investment in digital.
Our audience has never been given the chance to engage with a direct-to-consumer product that is built for them. It's kind of crazy that no one has built something to reach this incredibly valuable audience until now, because the opportunity and the potential audience is significant. From the 24 million Americans who currently pay for a political news subscription to the 130 million political news consumers in the U.S., the appetite is there. But why do we think our product will stand out? Well, we think about the marketplace. And there are a couple of strategies that we believe show promise for us. Fox, yes, Fox, they have proven that you can build a subscription model catering to superfans. Meanwhile, The New York Times has built a digital business by investing in verticals, audio, games, cooking. We have taken those lessons.
We are building a product that will include the best of both. Our D2C offering will allow users to watch MSNow's linear feed live on the app, which our superfans will love. Let me be clear, this product is not your typical streaming service. It's not just another news subscription. It will be a membership community designed to serve our core audience in three ways. First, unlocking access to our talent through live and virtual events, providing curated insights just for them, not another endless doom scroll, and empowering communities with new moderated spaces for intelligent discussion. Because while others are attempting the same old SVODs, MSNow is building a membership community. What does that mean? We know in this fragmented landscape, people are craving connection. We see it in our live events, which, by the way, we expect to triple next year.
So when our fans sign up for MSNow's D2C offering, they will be able to interact with people who share their interests and their passions, whether that's neighbors in their local communities or people from across the country. Right now, we are doing consumer research. And we are talking to superfans and future fans to find out exactly what they want. We are aiming to launch this product next summer, just as the midterm elections are heating up. Our D2C product will be an important part of the overall MSNow ecosystem. This will help amplify and connect the different parts of our business: cable, digital, newsletters, podcasts, live events. Because in every arena, we have the runway and the strategy to grow. So if you take anything away from this presentation, let it be this. We are focusing on gaining market share across our entire ecosystem.
And we are committed to dominating the election cycles over the next three years. And we are going to turn these strengths into the ideal launchpad for our new products and platforms. There has never been a more important time to do the work that we are privileged to do. We are built for the future. And the future for MS is now.
Do you see what I see? Let's go. Wow. Big wreck. This is an epic finish. The world's best will take another victory. A quacksit into the top corner. I am very pregnant. I'm still going through a divorce. Do not surrender. I like new places. Betrayal can come from every corner of life. I've got two words for you: killer grannies. We'll talk about that red carpet fashion. We're celebrating all the love and success in this room. Hot guys in a hot sauna talking hot goss.
Wow, that sizzle was stacked. Honestly, it's a hard act to follow, especially since right about now, you're probably wondering what are two half-naked guys in a sauna doing here.
I'm Lonnie Martz.
I'm Eyal Booker. And we're the hosts of E!'s digital series, Hot Goss, where we spill all the steamiest celebrity tea from a sauna. We are a little underdressed for Investor Day, but we didn't want to miss this chance to tell you how excited we are to be working with Val and Matt. They're like an entertainment and sports power couple, almost like a platonic T. Swift and Travis Kelce. And now you're going to see exactly why we stan them. But first, please welcome to the stage Julia Boorstin, CNBC's senior media and tech reporter.
Now, that's a hard act to follow, for real.
Welcome back, everyone. First, a disclosure, because many of you may know me in my role as senior media and technology reporter for CNBC. In that role, I cover many of the topics and dynamics that you've heard discussed on the stage here today. But today, I'm here as a member of the Versant team. So, as you could tell from that video leading up to this, we're now going to shift gears and talk about Versant's strategy, specifically in entertainment and sports. And we're going to dive in with the two leaders of those businesses. Please welcome Val Boreland and Matt Hong. Hi. How are you?
Nice to see you, Julia.
Good to see you.
I have to tell you, I tried to convince Matt to come out in a towel, but I couldn't get him to go for it. It's not on brand.
It's not on brand for him. That's not it. Yeah.
So I want to start off and hear a little bit about your backgrounds and how your various experiences are informing the way you're approaching your new roles. Val, let's start with you.
Sure, sure. Hi. I'm Versant's President of Entertainment. And I was at NBCUniversal for the last nine years, where I led programming strategy and content acquisition for the cable networks and for NBC. I was also part of the original team that started Peacock. Prior to NBCUniversal, I led programming strategy at other cable networks like Viacom, that we now know as Paramount, and Lifetime Television, which is part of A&E Networks. And I've led all aspects of programming, including original programming, live content, content strategy, and acquisitions.
So what about you, Matt? What's your background? And how does it play into your approach to this new role?
Yeah, well, I'm the new kid on the stage. I joined Versant this past June to oversee USA Sports, which is the new name for our sports division. I previously was the president of PlayOn Sports, which is a streaming and ticketing platform in the high school space owned by KKR. And then I previously worked at Turner Sports, now TNT Sports, for 11-+ years, the last role as COO. And then prior to sports, I worked in digital at Thomson, which is now Thomson Reuters, and then six-+ years at AOL prior to that.
In a different era of this media ecosystem. Val, earlier, we heard a little bit about what's going on in entertainment. And one thing that I report on every day, including today, is how incredibly competitive this market is.
And the fact that Versant is going to be a smaller player relative to these media giants raises questions about how you're going to approach that. What's your strategy?
Yeah. So, Julia, I wouldn't say we're a small player. We're actually a big player. We have really big brands. Versant's viewers watched billions of hours of content on their entertainment networks last year. And that's because we spent decades building these networks and a deep connection to our fans. So we're going to continue to do the things that we do exceptionally well with these big brands. So let's first talk about E!. You heard Mark and Anand talk about the importance of live programming. Well, E! is going to cover the live red carpets of the Oscars, the Grammys, the Emmys, the Met Gala and more.
And next month, we're actually kicking off awards season with a live broadcast of the Critics' Choice Awards ceremony, which will be hosted again this year by Chelsea Handler, which is great because she's not only a brilliant comedian, but she does her best work in live. And tomorrow, for the first time ever, we'll be announcing the Critics' Choice Awards nominations live on E with a simulcast on USA Network. So let's talk about USA Network. It's a top-five cable network for 30 years running. Matt and I actually work as teammates programming USA Network, which caters to an audience that enjoys both sports and entertainment content. And the types of entertainment content I look for rely on recognizable IP and well-known personalities. So this summer, we had our original scripted series based on the John Grisham novel, The Rainmaker, which premiered stupendously, had a really great first season.
And we've actually already announced that we're picking up a second season of that show. We have another scripted series that is based on a very popular book series called Anna Pigeon that will be premiering next year. And of course, USA Network does unscripted content. Currently, we have a show called Everything on the Menu with Braun Strowman. Braun is a very popular and very large WWE legend. Favorite show. Yes, Matt loves this show. It's doing really well. Actually, tomorrow is our season finale. But I'm pretty optimistic that we'll pick up the second season of that show as well. And third, we have true crime. We have a long history of serving this audience on Oxygen. And as a result, we've built a large library of content. Our most popular show, Snapped, is about to celebrate its 700th episode next year.
And the great thing about this content is that we own it. So we're able to monetize it by selling second-window rights to third-party platforms. And then finally, we have Sci-Fi. It's another discrete and passionate fan base that loves our science fiction, fantasy, and action content. And we're excited about the original scripted series. We have a third season of returning next year called The Ark. So simply put, our strategy is to keep super serving these fandoms with our scripted, unscripted, live, and sports content and to continue to build our content library so that we can leverage them in new ways through licensing, distribution, and building our own AVOD content so we can continue to grow our audiences.
So maybe not as large as some of the other media conglomerates, but with these dedicated fan bases and really deep into that area. The true crime category, whenever I see these stats, it's just fascinating. How obsessive those fans are.
I know.
But when you look, though, at this idea of competing with the larger giants, Matt, walk us through here what your strategy is for sports. Because you're competing not just for eyeballs, but also for sports rights.
Yeah, I mean, Julia, I'd say like Val and Entertainment, for sports, we're taking a very targeted approach. So really, our strategy is to align with sports programming that we're confident that we can be ROI positive with, so that we can generate returns via distribution revenue and advertising revenue. And then from there, we go deep in both quality and quantity with the leagues that we partner with.
So to illustrate, on USA Network, we'll have 1,400 hours of live sports in 2026, which is about four hours a day of live sports on USA Network. As you've heard, this includes top-tier programming from NASCAR, from WWE, from Premier League, from the PGA Tour, and from many others. +, we'll have 17 hours, or excuse me, 17 days of the Winter Olympics in 2026 on USA Network. So that's over 2+ weeks of Team USA on USA Network. Switching to Golf Channel, we'll have 3,200 hours of live golf and studio coverage in 2026.
So that's nine hours of live per day from the PGA Tour, the LPGA Tour, the DP World Tour, and then from innovative new programming that we'll try, such as the Golf Channel Games in a couple of weeks with Rory McIlroy and Scottie Scheffler, and then the reboot of the super popular reality golf show, Big Break, later in 2026. So as Val noted, our audiences watched well over a billion hours of live sports across Versant networks in the trailing 12 months. And so really, what these numbers show is that the strength of linear continues to be substantial. And for live sports, it's unmatched.
And these deep, passionate fandoms. And I know we're going to be hearing more about golf coming up right after this conversation. So you mentioned some of the sports you mentioned are going to be broadcast in partnership with NBC.
How are you going to manage sharing those rights, and not just the rights, but also the production and the talent?
Yeah, I mean, the short answer is we will be quite independent from NBC in all of these areas going forward. So I think Anand and Mark talked about rights, and we'll start there. So with the exception of the Olympics, Versant has direct contractual relationships with each of the sports leagues that we've talked about today. So whether it's NASCAR or the PGA Tour or WWE, we're independent from NBC going forward and have direct contracts with each of these networks. And most of these deals are long-term, too, so lasting well beyond 2030. It's the same thing for our talent.
So, our on-air commentators and announcers, direct relationships for every on-air person that you'll see on USA Network or Golf Channel, with the exception of the Olympics coverage. But for every other sport, direct relationships with talent going forward. And then last is production. So here, I'd say we're not only distinct from NBC going forward, but we're, I would say, differentiated from the rest of the industry, including the streaming companies. And so really, that's about the model that we have for production going forward, which is a combination of quality but also efficiency. And so one of the things that the spin has done has allowed us to essentially build our production team from scratch. So we started with a core group of, I would call them, industry experts and well-renowned production personnel that will serve as the core of our production team going forward.
And then because we didn't inherit a large legacy employee base for production, we're really supplementing and adding to this core team a large network of freelancers, which really then speaks to the efficiency and the nimbleness that we'll have going forward. So in the past few months alone, other networks and streamers have approached us about producing live sports for them, which is, I think, a testament to our model of both quality but also efficiency.
Now, Matt just mentioned the strength in linear, but also talking about the context of competing in this streaming world as well. I want to hear from you, Val, a little bit about your plans to build your entertainment division beyond linear. You've mentioned how many billions of hours have been viewed, but a lot of that is happening outside the cable ecosystem.
What are your plans and your strategy when it comes to building these brands outside of linear?
Right. Yes, well, obviously, I'm very excited about our linear networks, but we have real opportunities in digital, social, and streaming. Our E! digital studio creates original programming and pop culture moments, not only for fans, but also for talent. You saw Eyal and Lonnie in their towels from their sauna, well, that show, Hot Goss, was created by our E! digital studio, and it became viral. It's generated approximately 90 million video views and has become our fastest-growing short-form franchise on E! digital. And as a result, we're going to develop a longer-form version for YouTube. Another great example is the very popular GlamBot. So the GlamBot is a high-speed robotic camera that captures these dramatic slow-motion video portraits of celebrities on the red carpets. You can actually see some of them in your screens.
This has blown up on social. It's a social media sensation. And again, not just with our fans, but also with the celebrities who can't wait to have their red carpet looks captured. So I have to tell you, I've witnessed some of the most famous stars, film, TV, and music stars waiting in line to get their picture taken by the GlamBot. And Julia, you and I know that celebrities rarely wait for anything, but for GlamBot, they make the exception. And then I have one last example, which would be streaming on our Fandango at Home AVOD service. We're currently developing a content strategy that leverages our substantial library assets. We're working on strategic content acquisitions with third-party studios, and eventually, we'll create original programming. Fandango at Home is going to present a valuable opportunity to reach streaming audiences.
And we can effectively use our linear networks to promote back to the AVOD service. And I work very closely with Will McIntosh on Fandango at Home. And I know he's going to come out in a little bit and talk more about it. So I'll stop there. I didn't even get into FAST channels and podcasting. We really have a lot of opportunities to grow beyond linear. All of these different platforms. And I'm excited to try out that streaming platform. As a media reporter, very curious about that. Yes, I know. It's exciting.
So in terms of growth opportunities, Matt, you have talked about wanting to partner with the sports leagues. And Versant did just sign an 11-year deal with the WNBA, which is a very fast-growing league, something I've reported on a lot for CNBC. What happens next in that deal? Where do you see that going?
Yeah, so we'll start with what attracted us to the WNBA. To your point, Julia, it's a league that is experiencing, I would say, hockey stick-like growth, both in terms of audience and revenue and all of the metrics that we would track. For us, importantly, it's a property that we feel like we can get ROI from, from the various sources of revenue that we talked about earlier. So in terms of what that property looks like for us, starting in 2026, which is the first year of an 11-year deal, we'll have 50-+ games. We'll launch a regular season franchise of Wednesday night double headers on USA Network. And so that'll be the franchise that we build relative to the sport and to the league. We're also covering the playoffs. And then in three of the 11 years, we'll have the WNBA Finals.
Our strategy is to make the WNBA appointment television. I think part of why the league chose us is because of our history and our expertise and our ability to have done this with other of our league partners and programming in the past, whether it's Premier League, which has aired on USA Network since 2013, or the PGA Tour, which first aired on Golf Channel in 1999. I would say that our leadership team at USA Sports has a lot of experience doing this in terms of quality of production, how we program the assets, marketing, character development, and storytelling. We have a lot of experience helping a league to grow their fan base and really creating a sticky connection with fans. That's what we're looking forward to doing with the WNBA.
That's the one I'm the most excited about: WNBA.
It's huge. You're right.
It's huge. And it really does seem like this is a tipping point year for women's sports.
Yes, absolutely.
And I do cover sports media and rights. And one thing we've seen with all these rights negotiations is that Amazon, Apple, all the tech giants are getting involved in bidding for these rights. How are you going to compete with those bidders?
I mean, I'd say not only are we currently competing, but we're having quite a bit of success. So we talked about the WNBA deal, which was a competitive marketplace for those rights.
You also heard that in the last five months, we've locked in a long-term renewal with the USGA and the 11 championships and the majors associated with that property, and then another competitive deal that we won relative to the PAC 12, which will allow us to have college football and men's and women's college basketball. Again, all of these deals are long-term, so they're somewhere between five years and 11 years. If I'm looking at it from a marketplace perspective, what are some of the reasons that we as Versant or we as USA Sports are attractive to league partners? First of all, I'd say we will go after sports that we feel like we can help grow, again, with that overlay of ROI. So we'll continue to be disciplined about where we can generate a return from distribution and advertising revenue.
We talked about the unique reach that television provides and how that's attractive to league partners. I'll reiterate our success that we've had with other programming in terms of production and marketing and promotion and how we've been able to grow other properties. And last, I'll say that sports is a very relationship-based business. And our leadership team at Versant, as well as at USA Sports, has deep and long-standing relationships with a lot of league partners, two of which you'll hear from or we'll hear from soon here. So I think we're very much competing and competing well for the properties that make sense for us and will continue to do so.
So before we hear more about those relationships and the Golf Channel, I want to ask a final question of you both, because this is new business.
What do you think is the biggest misconception for each of you about your business and their future at Versant?
I'll go first.
Yeah, sure.
I would say the biggest misconception about our business is that we'll be challenged without NBCUniversal, and I can't argue that what we built as part of NBCUniversal wasn't very successful and very profitable, but we weren't a priority for the company, and as Mark mentioned earlier, we at Versant get to invest back into our businesses and create more opportunities to experiment and move quickly. I talked earlier about the faster green lighting, like the season two of Rainmaker. We can create new partnerships. We just announced that we have a new partnership with the Screen Actors Guild Awards to cover their red carpet next year, which is great because that adds yet more live programming into our slate.
We're going to create more licensing opportunities. We're currently in negotiation with multiple streamers about licensing our content library. And actually, just this week, we closed a really big licensing deal with a major streamer that we're going to announce in a couple of days. So please keep an eye out for that announcement. And Julia, it's just revenue opportunities like these that are going to be easier to develop as an independent company. And actually, I have a great analogy to describe this, and I know Matt loves this one. I say that it's like being part of a popular singing group, that being part of NBC is like being part of NSYNC or Destiny's Child. And at Versant, we're solo artists. We're Justin Timberlake and we're Beyoncé. And they both achieve great success within their groups.
But as solo artists, they had the freedom to make decisions that best suited theM&Allowed them to thrive without limitations. and that's the kind of experience I'm really excited to have at Versant. I like the Beyoncé analogy. Yeah, that's why I like that. Yeah. That makes him Justin Timberlake.
So Matt, what's the misconception that you see out there you want to dispel?
Yeah, I mean, we've talked about this amazing programming that we have that differentiates us. and sports is very much about that next rights deal, and it's a competitive marketplace, and you compete to try and get that next rights deal. and it's a bit of an arms race. but I would say the biggest misconception is that we'll kind of fall victim to that competition or victim to trying to compete on programming alone.
Really, what we're going to do is we're going to focus on properties that make sense for us, that are ROI positive, that may mean that we're not in the mix for properties like the NFL or NBA, which for us, we wouldn't be able to get a return on based on our current set of factors, but we'll really focus on properties that work for us, and then, as you've heard today, using those properties to grow adjacent synergistic digital properties, so GolfNow and GolfPass and then future businesses that look like GolfNow and GolfPass, and so it's about transforming the sports business, and really, it's that transformation and working with Val and Will McIntosh on that transformation that I'm personally most excited about
Well, it's certainly a fascinating, exciting time for the industry and for Versant in particular.
Val and Matt, thank you so much for joining us here today and letting me be part of this conversation.
And Julia, we want to thank you because we heard that it's your birthday. It is my birthday. So thank you for joining us on your birthday. My pleasure.
Yes.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Thank you. Thank you.
Now, to continue this conversation about sports, I want to welcome and invite up my colleague, Rich Lerner. He's been a fixture on the Golf Channel since 1997. Please welcome Rich. Thank you. Appreciate it.
Julia, thank you. Great to be here. It is my privilege now to introduce you all to the leaders of two of Versant's most significant sports league properties, partners. Please give a warm welcome to Steve Phelps and Brian Rolapp, gentlemen. Steve, good to see you.
Good to see you as well.
Hi, Brian.
Good to see you.
Just having a fun golf conversation out in the lobby. Are there any other kind? No. Talk some golf. So for those of you who don't know, Steve is in his 20th year now with NASCAR. Congratulations. Nice milestone. Just became his sport's first-ever commissioner, overseeing everything from strategic growth to media partnerships to racing competition and track ownership. Brian Rolapp, welcome, Brian. He is the newly appointed CEO of the PGA Tour and just completed a very successful 20-year run at the NFL. His last role was Chief Media and Business Officer. So Matt was just talking a moment ago about helping sports leagues grow. So let's start there. And Brian, begin with you. What are your goals for the PGA Tour over the next 24 months?
Oh, great question. I've been there 150 days. I feel like we've made some progress. I mean, my first goal was clearly, I had a bit to learn, and I promised I would spend time with 100 players, and I think I'm close to 60 at this point having conversations, so I've learned a ton, but it's clear over the next 24 months what we need to do is improve the competitive product. Golf is growing. It's one of the fastest-growing sports in the world. The PGA Tour is in a very strong spot when you look at viewership and ratings. Yet we think we can do a much better job making the sport much more accessible to sports fans in general, and so the first thing I did was we're going to really look at the competitive model to improve it for players, for fans, and for our partners, and created a committee called the Future Competition Committee, which Tiger Woods is chairing.
And we're bringing all of our partners, including Versant, to come in and say, "Hey, it's a blank sheet of paper. The PGA Tour is looking to improve its competitive model. What would you do?" And it's been a really good discussion. And we think in the very near future, we'll be able to unveil a sport that not only honors the tradition of golf, but also improves it and makes it much more accessible for golf fans and for sports fans in general.
Yeah, it's an exciting time. Steve, similar vein, what growth opportunities are you looking at in NASCAR?
Well, for us, we see significant growth opportunities both domestically and internationally. I think we're behind a number of other sports from an international footprint perspective. We do have racing series in Canada, Mexico, Brazil, and Europe. So I think broadening that is going to be important for us.
We had our first-ever race in Mexico City at our cup level and what was then called our Xfinity series, which would be the O'Reilly's Auto Parts series, and I work in NASCAR. You have to get the sponsor deal in there, but I think there's lots of domestic opportunities for us as well, and I think it really comes down to a little bit, like Brian was saying, to the product. For us, we worked really hard fine-tuning our product. We have a new car, and arguably the car has done everything we'd asked it to do. It improved driver safety. The racing itself is the best racing arguably we've ever had, and the bill of materials building that car has saved our race teams about 40% versus the old car, but it's also about schedule variation.
And I think schedule variation is really, really important for us in doing things that are bold and innovative. Again, I think what Brian's looking at as well. So if you look at traditional races at like a Charlotte Motor Speedway or Daytona International Speedway, they're great. Our fans expect that. There's great racing there. They're great facilities. But a few years back, we built a quarter-mile racetrack inside the LA Coliseum, and we tore it up so they could play football. And the last three years, we raced in the streets of Chicago. We had never raced in a street race ever. So right downtown by Grant Park and on Lake Michigan, it was a very cool thing. So for us, it's kind of the old and the new, right?
You're trying to make sure you have history and what goes on to make sure that existing fan base or legacy fan is happy. But we also have to attract new people.
Clearly, Steve, your choice of a media partner has a lot of bearing on growth. So what factors go into that decision, and how much do the relationships and leadership play a role?
Well, take a step back quickly. So we have five media partners. And so we extended for seven years with Fox and NBC, and then obviously Versant coming on board with the spinoff. And those were great partnerships, but we wanted to expand. So our Xfinity series, then its relationship with The CW. And then we brought on Amazon Prime and then Turner Sports. And so we have an unbelievable mixture of media companies all do things incredibly well for us, all promoting the sport.
But we wanted to have a mix of broadcast, cable, and streaming. And we thought that was really important because there was a lot of question whether our fans would find a streamer. We knew they'd find broadcast, and they do. We knew they'd come to cable, and they do. So the question was, what would happen in a pure streamer? So we're very pleased with it. I'll go to the leadership question next, Rich, which is, listen, I've known Mark Lazarus for 30 years, back to my days at the NFL, and I've known Matt for 15. They are unbelievable professionals. They're people that build things and build them really well. We're excited about this opportunity with Versant and USA Sports. So just thrilled with that leadership. It makes a big difference.
And Brian, to you as well, your broad view of media partnerships and the leadership.
I think media partnerships, when it comes to professional sports, is vital. It's the way that the majority of people experience your sport. Who your partner is, how they market it, how they position it, how they produce it, is probably the most important relationship you can have. Look, in sports, and you can hear what Steve says and what I said, and maybe it's our NFL training kicking in, but the sports business isn't that complicated. You get the competitive product right. You then find the best partners to distribute that and market that. Then just when you get it right, you continue to innovate. If you do that right, fans will reward you with their time and their attention. The media partners is extremely important.
And I would echo what Steve said, is over the last 20 years, there's fewer better sports leaders than Mark Lazarus, who we've all done business with, who sort of gets this. And if you don't have a relationship with your partner, if it's just purely transactional, you're not going to get what you need to do to build the sport and build your property. And I think Mark and his team get that.
You both had long runs at the NFL. Steve, you spent the earlier part of your career there. We were just talking about the late, great Paul Tagliabue, and what an influence he had on the two of you. NFL, we know, is a dominant force in sports. NFL is at a very mature stage, I would say, in its growth trajectory. NASCAR and the PGA Tour have, it seems, more headroom. So are there lessons from their continued rise that you think are transferable, Steve?
I was hoping you'd start. No, listen, they're an unbelievable, I mean, their product's unbelievable, and what they've built is incredible. I was there for almost 14 years, and it was great training. It's just such a great brand. It's interesting when you think about the NFL, this unbelievable product and distributed broadly, and they've expanded internationally and done all the things, really, in my opinion, really well. First under Pete Rozelle's leadership, and then Paul's leadership, and now Roger. And they just keep getting better, and they keep getting stronger. I think they have more headroom, in my opinion, as well. We have to try harder, right? So we have to innovate more. We need to be bolder. They can be second to the market or third to the market.
It doesn't really matter because they have the capital to invest that when they decide to go, it's going to work. For us, for the PGA Tour, we're in very similar situations in that we're kind of traveling circus. We don't have home teams. There are golf courses, and there are racetracks. But the competitive advantage that they have with these really strong 32 markets that they do business in and really wealthy owners that are not afraid to invest in market is huge. So what are the takeaways for us? The takeaway for me is fine-tuning the product, which they continue to do. We continue to do that. Schedule innovation. The NFL does that by going international. We are going to do the same thing. What that looks like, I'm not exactly sure. But again, as I said, the domestic footprint for us is an expansion.
So next year, we're going to have a race at Coronado Island in San Diego at the Navy base there. So we'll build a racetrack there, a road course. It's already sold out. It will be a major event for us and a cultural event. So I talked about Chicago Street Race. I talked about the LA Coliseum. Those races, the folks that bought tickets there, 80% of them had never been to a NASCAR race. So I'm not sure what that looks like because I haven't seen the data yet on Coronado and the Navy base there. But we're thrilled to keep going.
Brian. Yeah, since we were talking about Paul Tagliabue, I'll bring up a quote.
He had a great quote that said, "If it ain't broke, fix it anyway." And I think what I learned at the NFL, and I think Steve would agree, is constant innovation and constant. Just when you think you got it right, keep better. Honor tradition, but don't be overly bound by it. I mean, they changed the kickoff rule last year. That could have been sacrosanct, but the idea of how do you make the product better, how do you make it safer, no one was afraid to do that in search of the best competitive product. And again, you get the product right, and you get the right partners, everything flows from there. The rest is somewhat easy. And so I think that's one thing I learned from the NFL.
And then, second, when it comes to the product, and I've said this publicly, I think the NFL did three things really well that I think translates to other sports. It doesn't translate to everything the NFL does, but this does when it comes to the product. And the good news is, well, the bad news is golf has one of them. The good news is the other two are fixable. The first is competitive parity. We were talking about this. In August, if we all picked a team to win the Super Bowl, the probabilities we'd all be wrong. And that's because the competition is razor thin. Golf has that. The difference between the 10th best golfer and the 90th is razor thing. And so that is a strength that can't be replicated. Two, scarcity. How do you make the best events?
How do you make them special? How do they make them feel special for the fans, for the people on television? And three, simplicity. How do you put it in a competitive model that you understand? I think golf suffers from the last two, that this is what this committee is going to fix is how do you follow the sport and do it in a way that if you've never seen a PGA Tour event, when you turn on the television, it'll take me two minutes to explain to you what's at stake. And I think all the best sports do that. And I think there's a lot of that in what Steve has done, is the competitive nature of the race and how you follow it all year long. So I think that's one thing I think I've taken from the NFL.
Steve, NASCAR has an incredibly loyal and passionate fan base, and as we heard, you're also thinking quite a bit about reaching some new audiences. How do you balance those two goals, and what roles will USA Network play?
Yeah, for us, I think it is a balance. I don't think they're mutually exclusive, though. I really don't. I think you can nurture your existing fan base, and you can attract new fans, and they want basically the same thing. They want a great product, which we just keep talking about. They want, if they come to our events, they want the race day experience to be fantastic, right? Not different from other sports, and then I think serving them great content on both sides, new and existing fans is important.
How we reach the new fans, we're reaching in different places typically than where we would reach, for example, a legacy fan. So we'll do it through partnerships with Fortnite or Roblox or a relationship we just started with Substack. And these are places where our content through Netflix, Amazon, different documentaries, all of those things reach someone to at least consider who you are. It can be in your consideration set or their consideration set for us. As it relates to Versant, and again, I'll go back to what I said before, Mark and Matt, I trust them. I'm excited about what they're building here. Great adjacencies from a property standpoint. And we are going to lean in with them. And I know they're going to do the same thing with us. They've been a tremendous partner for decades.
Obviously, from a management perspective, this is something new and exciting, and we'll build together.
Matt was mentioning Golf Channel's coverage of the PGA Tour. It's upwards of 500 live hours a year. Is that mostly for diehard fans, Brian? Or are you also using Golf Channel to grow the audience? And Steve talked about attracting some new fans.
Yeah, we're extremely fortunate in that our sport has a well-distributed, well-run linear channel dedicated to it. A lot of sports don't have that, and it's the envy. I think the Golf Channel does better. We have that at the NFL Network. We didn't have the impact on the NFL that I think the Golf Channel has on our sport, which is fantastic. And that's great, and they do a wonderful job. But what I'm most excited about is what Mark is building here isn't a company built on linear channels.
We're lucky enough that one of the pillars of his strategic plan is the sport of golf, and that's a huge benefit, and his vision is not limited to the Golf Channel. His vision is everything that touches the sport, which is exactly the type of partner we want and I think we will benefit from, and that this new company is going to help us, and so I don't look at him in the company as just a linear channel partner. I look at him as everything else is building, which is technology and other ways to reach current and new fans. This last one for both of you. We know the media ecosystem is shifting so rapidly. Leagues seeking out a mix of streaming and network media partners. What's the value that a cable partner like Versant offers to your leagues and to your fan bases? Brian, I'll start with you.
Yeah, look, I've been doing this a long time in my career, and I'll paraphrase a Mark Twain quote, which is the death of linear television has been greatly exaggerated. It still plays a really important part in the sports landscape, and if you just look at a lot of major sports leagues, they've shifted more of their content to broadcast in linear because it still reaches, but also, it's not mutually exclusive. You have to do that + build out other platforms, digital and otherwise, and it gets back to what I said before about Versant's strategy of that's how they look at the sport of golf is that we're going to get the linear right, but then we're going to do all other things actually to build the sport, and that's what you need a partner.
You need a partner who's willing to innovate and go where the fans are, not the other way around.
Yeah, I totally agree with that, what Brian talked about there. And I won't repeat it in the interest of time. The one thing I would say, though, is that cable television is the largest distribution that we have with FS1 and with Turner and USA Network. And it is alive and well for us. And I think the good news for us is that our fans tend to be slightly older. And they find cable. They will find it where it is. So even though the cable universe has declined over the last decade, our numbers haven't. And it's odd, right? You'd think it would go down percentage-wise the same. We don't see that at all. And so we're bullish on what they're building here.
Steve and Brian, thank you both for this conversation and your partnership. We really appreciate it. Best of luck in your new roles, and have a great holiday.
Thank you.
Steve Phelps, Brian Rolapp. So you've heard a lot about the sports and entertainment strategy. Next up, you're going to hear about the digital platforms that are taking Versant beyond media. What happens when a giant media company decides it's not just in the business of selling ads anymore, but in selling actual experiences? In addition to selling airtime, it starts selling real-world action. And it's rewriting the media playbook as we know it. We crack the code on how to turn a large media audience into direct, measurable, paying customers. For us, the question isn't how many people are watching your content. It's how effectively you're serving their passions. We pioneered a direct, profitable answer.
We've built an engine that transforms our media audience into active customers by seamlessly connecting them to the real-world experiences they care about. This is the playbook for turning consumption into commerce. This self-reinforcing cycle is already driving growth, and we believe it's the model for Versant's next era of business.
Please welcome President of Digital Platforms and Ventures, Will McIntosh.
So good afternoon, everyone. What I really like about that video is in about 57 seconds, I think what it does is it really demonstrates what you've heard repeatedly today, that Versant's brands can evolve into full-funnel digital platforms, deepening engagement, expanding monetization, and serving all of our audiences in new ways.
And as part of Versant, what we're really excited about is we now have the access to the dedicated resources, investment capacity, and organizational focus to execute at a scale and speed that, quite frankly, was not possible in the previous corporate structure. So what I really want to spend my time walking through now is how we're already doing that inside our digital platforms and ventures group, but more importantly, how we intend to grow from here. We're going to start with golf, where our ecosystem is most developed, and then we're going to move into entertainment. In golf, as you heard Mark talk about earlier today, our business is centered around GolfNow, which is one of the world's largest online tee-time marketplaces, and GolfPass, which is our membership layer.
Together, they connect every part of the golfer's journey: finding a golf course, booking a tee time, reviewing your experience, learning, and earning rewards. GolfPass and GolfNow members also watch more Golf Channel. And it's this combination among the three properties that creates a virtuous cycle with each business driving the others. And here's the other exciting piece. We didn't just stop at connecting golfers to courses. We became a technology partner to the entire golf industry, powering tee sheets, point-of-sale systems, payments, and analytics for all of our golf course partners. But rather than walk you through every platform detail, and there are many, here's the headline. We now operate the most comprehensive digital platform in golf, serving both the golfer and the course. We generate demand, we streamline operations, and the more we scale in each area, the stronger the overall platform becomes.
So now I want to focus on what comes next and go deeper on all of our growth levers. So our growth story is all about platform leverage across these four areas: growing our core business, growing share of wallet, expanding into the broader golf economy, and finally scaling internationally. So let me take each in turn. So even as a category leader, we still represent less than 10% of public course rounds in North America. Growing the core is all about execution. And as part of Versant, we now have the resources to drive the execution focused on three concrete actions. First, we're simply going to expand our sales force with more focus on specialization. We're adding more sales reps and forming dedicated teams for specific areas like private golf clubs, municipal courses, and our large enterprise customers.
This specialization is going to allow us to focus on our customers in a way that will directly improve conversion and penetration. Second, we're enhancing our product to drive adoption. We've already done a lot of work to modernize our tee sheet and point-of-sale system. We've added membership tools, and we've improved our food and beverage and analytics capabilities. We're also going to roll out lower friction modular bundles for smaller and mid-market courses, making it easier for them to say yes. Finally, we're going to expand distribution. Golfers increasingly find tee times through Google, Apple, Map services, and yes, now AI assistants. We're deeply integrating into those services to drive incremental transactional volume. This is how we accelerate penetration in a category where we already have scale. And it's not just about adding courses.
We're working to convert more of our members into more of our users into paying members. Today, nearly four million golfers book rounds through GolfNow each year. But fewer than 10% are GolfPass members today. And here's the thing. GolfPass members generate two to three times the lifetime value of non-members. That's a meaningful opportunity. So we plan to increase conversion in a variety of ways through streamlined upgrade flows, pricing and perks tied directly to booking, personalized offers based on the golfer's booking behavior, and new membership tiers. We're highly confident this is a lever that drives immediate opportunity. And the golf market is bigger than what happens on the course. You saw it with some of Marc's data earlier. Golf participation increasingly includes off-course experiences, simulators, putting venues, and new entertainment concepts. In the last year since we launched this category, we've added over 500 new off-course partners.
With more than 3,000 of these locations in the U.S. alone, we're in the very early stages. These experiences do a few things for us. They expand our usage, they introduce new audiences to our platform, and they open up new paths for membership and recurring revenue. Finally, we're really excited about the opportunity to continue our global expansion. GolfNow began its story outside of North America in 2013 when we acquired the market-leading software provider in the U.K. and Ireland. Our market penetration, as you can see here, now exceeds 50% in that territory. Again, we have plenty of opportunity to add new courses and grow same-store sales to increase our average annual revenue per course. In continental Europe, we're just getting started.
A couple of years ago, very similar to what we did in the U.K., we acquired the market-leading software provider in Germany and France to further fuel expansion in the territory. And it's been a great addition as we grow GolfNow into a truly global platform. Our focus outside of North America is on pace and sequencing of new market entries, creating localized bundles of our tech products with our marketplace, which is a key differentiator for us. Growing same-store revenue through software upsales, continuing to consolidate best-in-class regional platforms under the GolfNow brand. International represents one of our largest value creation opportunities over the long term. Now, turning to entertainment, the parallels are clear. Just like GolfNow leveraged Golf Channel, Fandango can leverage the full Versant portfolio across USA, Sci-Fi, E!, Oxygen, and more to supercharge customer acquisition via cross-promotion.
And then we have a great brand like Rotten Tomatoes, which amplifies that journey with cultural credibility, influence, and data that is really unparalleled. On the Fandango platform, people can watch movies and TV through Fandango at Home or find a cinema and purchase their movie tickets. They can post reviews on Rotten Tomatoes. They can become a rewards member and keep getting perks to watch even more with Fandango. In total, close to 20 million entertainment fans will transact with Fandango properties this year. Similar to GolfNow, we have several big growth levers that will drive our next phase. From growing our market share here in the U.S. to international expansion, to scaling our B2B services, as you heard about earlier with Indie Cinema, to building up our platform for customers streaming on Fandango at Home. I'll walk you through each one of these now.
So Fandango accounts for under 10% of domestic ticket sales, leaving meaningful room to expand share. We expect to do that in a variety of ways: by strengthening our value proposition for exhibitors through better marketing, loyalty, and data, by growing Fan Club, which is our membership program that's still in its very early innings, by increasing cross-promotion via Versant's linear networks and fast channels, and establishing new major partnerships with the larger circuits and independents. This is the foundation of near-term growth and an execution priority with the resources available to us as part of Versant. As it relates to international expansion, while Rotten Tomatoes is a globally recognized brand, Fandango's business remains U.S.-centric. But with the combination of Indie's international capabilities, Fandango's scalable marketplace architecture, and GolfNow's proven playbook for global expansion, we are now positioned to enter new markets thoughtfully and profitably.
On B2B operations, Anand talked in detail about what IndieCinema is and what our plans are for IndieCinema, but we believe it is a major unlock. We currently work with approximately 3,000 U.S. cinemas, but fewer than 5% of those use the IndieCinema platform today. We expect to grow this by integrating IndieCinema directly into loyalty payments and ticketing for our Fandango marketplace, by bundling the marketplace with IndieCinema's point-of-sale solutions, which was a great driver of growth for our GolfNow business, and utilizing our robust sales force and activation resources to accelerate adoption. Fandango and IndieCinema together become the digital backbone of modern exhibition, and next year, our on-demand offering will become even more attractive to our customers with the introduction of free ad-supported streaming on the Fandango at Home platform, which we're going to launch in the second half of the year.
Over the past few years, we've watched the streaming marketplace shift from the dominance of paid subscriptions to an explosion of ad-supported viewing. According to Nielsen, more than 70% of all TV viewing today is content with ads. The reality is that ad-supported streaming options like AVOD and FAST are no longer a side category or budget option. They are mainstream. You can see that here, rivaling established subscription services, particularly among audiences who value both choice and quality. There are several players in the space today, mainly from television and connected TV companies like Roku, Tubi, and Pluto TV. And while we're just getting started in ad-supported streaming, Fandango at Home users already contribute meaningfully to those billions of hours watched across Versant properties. And more exciting, nearly 81% of current Fandango users express strong interest in an expanded ad-supported offering. So we're going to respond to our customers.
And over time and with scale, we're confident this can become a meaningful business. For reference, the current market leaders generate hundreds of millions of revenue annually. And what gives us real confidence as we enter the space is that we are not starting from scratch. We already reach tens of millions of entertainment consumers every month through our networks, Fandango, Rotten Tomatoes, and our cinema partners. We offer choice. Whether you're watching for free at home, going out to the movies, or paying to rent or purchase your favorite content, no other service offers you all three options. And as you heard from Val earlier, we're working together to greatly increase the quality of our content library, leaning into films that we know will drive considerable engagement while taking advantage of Versant's extensive television library.
And we will have a better experience with less intrusive ad formats and better targeting supported by 20 years of Fandango data. Adding a free ad-supported layer to our current offering is a natural extension of our platform. It allows us to broaden our reach, reduce friction for casual users, and ultimately grow our customer base by uniquely connecting theatrical, transactional, and free streaming into one platform. So when you take a step back, GolfNow and Fandango are two sides of the same coin and proven models of how Versant turns audience reach into platform scale and then platform scale into profitable growth. Both platforms are category leaders with large addressable markets. Our focus now is leveraging what we've built.
Across both verticals, our growth is driven by penetrating the core, growing membership, international expansion, new revenue services, and using the full Versant ecosystem to drive daily engagement across both golf and entertainment. That's the blueprint for Versant's digital future and a key reason we're so excited about this next chapter. And now to bring this all together and talk numbers, I'd like to welcome Anand back to the stage. Well, thanks, Will. And so over the last few hours, you've heard about our strategy, our execution plans, and our business model. I'm now going to walk through the financial framework and principles that underlie all of this. So our financial strategy has four pillars. And we've referenced these throughout today, so let me just kind of bring it together. First, we'll continue to deliver strong profitability and cash flow anchored by our success in pay TV.
Second, we're going to transform our business, allocating capital in a disciplined manner to drive growth by reaching new audiences and developing our existing and new platforms. Third, we will concurrently provide strong and attractive returns to shareholders. And then finally, our goal is to maintain a strong balance sheet and healthy liquidity. We view this as really fundamental, providing us both strategic flexibility to pursue new opportunities and sponsoring a strong competitive position regardless of the market environment. Now, we're starting this journey with a truly great foundation. So we've spent the last year separating the businesses, and we're very pleased with their results. Now, you've heard some of this before, but most of our distribution deals and sports relationships are contracted long-term. And our sports deals are primarily governed by contracts between Versant and directly with the league, so there is no dependency on NBCUniversal.
On ad sales, we're maintaining our partnership with NBCUniversal for two years. NBCUniversal, very specifically, NBCUniversal will rep Versant's inventory, and that's been a leading go-to-market approach for many years, and it's going to continue to be beneficial for both parties. Rebecca mentioned that we've already established an independent, efficient news organization since October, and we're very happy with those results, and then finally, you, of course, have met the management team today, and our infrastructure is already in place. I'm going to provide a little bit more detail now on the distributor relationships and the sports leagues that we've referenced a few times, so on the distribution agreements, more than half of our pay TV subscribers are governed by agreements that go through 2028 and beyond, and meanwhile, many of our sports agreements, as you can see on this slide, go well past 2030.
We view this as really important because the long-term nature of these partnerships highlights the stability of our business and also provides great visibility in the years to come. So now turning from the medium and the long term to actually now, which is going to happen in a few weeks, which is our spin. So just a few of the highlights of that. Regular way trading is going to begin on Monday, January 5th, on the NASDAQ. Comcast will distribute one Versant share for every 25 Comcast shares. And this is expected to be a tax-free transaction to Comcast and to shareholders. So now turning to the financials, Mark shared some of these numbers at the top, and they represent our results for 2025 as if we were a standalone company. So they're comparable to how we're going to report our results after the spin.
Now, just to reiterate, Versant enjoys financial scale, strong mid-30% margins, healthy cash flow generation with nearly $1.4 billion of free cash flow, which again, is stated on a levered basis, and we are well capitalized, which enables us to drive growth and strong shareholder returns. Now, let me dig into these numbers in more detail on the next several slides. So I'm going to first review the annual trends of our major metrics. And again, to repeat, they're stated on a standalone basis. So for 2025, we expect revenue to decline 6% from 2024. And EBITDA, we expect to be down 10% and margins down a tick. The decline in EBITDA then leads to a similar nominal decline in free cash flow. So there are a few key factors behind this trajectory. First, the secular gradual pay TV declines that everybody in the industry is experiencing.
Second, seasonality coming off the presidential election, which impacts MSNow ratings and ad sales. And then third, as part of NBCUniversal, there's historically been limited investment to evolve and grow the Versant businesses. Now, that's, of course, a major driver of the spin, and I'll discuss shortly our plans to improve the business going forward. Now, one process note, I've mentioned several times that the financial metrics are stated on a standalone basis. We're providing reconciliations in our postings that are going to bridge back to the financials in our Form 10. So, turning now to a little bit more detail on revenue. As you've heard a few times today, we already have a diversified revenue model, and we're laser-focused on increasing revenue by changing its mix over time.
So currently, 62% of revenue is from linear distribution, and that represents fees generated from pay TV operators to carry our networks. Based on secular trends, we expect a mid-single-digit revenue decline in this area for 2025 from moderate pay TV cord cutting offset by rate increases. Slightly less than a quarter of revenue is from advertising, which includes both digital and network. The projected declines in 2025 are in part due to the presidential election year seasonality I just mentioned. Now, going to platform revenue, and this is mostly from GolfNow and Fandango, that's 13% of revenue, and that's growing. And importantly, we expect to accelerate growth over time as we invest both in these existing and new platforms. Then finally, content licensing and other represents 3% of revenue. This area is inherently subject to some year-to-year volatility given the timing of licensing sales.
Just to reiterate, we are confident that we will improve the revenue trajectory by investing in the business. You've heard about several of these investments today, things like IndieCinema, Free TV Networks, an MSNow subscription service, Fandango, AVOD, and the CNBC Retail Investor D2C, just to name a few, and there will be many more growth initiatives to come. Now, I'm going to turn from revenue to expenses. On expenses, about 55% comes from programming. 10% is directly related to the revenue from our digital platform businesses, and then the remaining 35% are for sales, general, and administrative costs. Within programming, roughly half of expenses are for sports, 30% for news, and then 20% for entertainment. This cost profile reflects our emphasis you've heard today on live events and their central role in Versant. It's important that this cost profile I just reviewed, it's not static.
It's rather for us continuous efficiency and productivity. That's core to our DNA. We know these assets very well because we have decades of experience running them. So we understand how to manage the operations effectively and efficiently. We also recognize the industry headwinds. And our focus in managing costs will help offset some of that pressure and facilitate growth investment. We've structured Versant to be cost-efficient on day one, with a commitment to drive additional savings in the years to come. You see that commitment in how we're structured, how we're harnessing technology, and how we're managing our cost profile. So taking each in turn on structure, we have some brand-specific editorial resources with a centralized shared service model for all other areas. So even within editorial, we will deliver a superior viewing experience for customers efficiently. To give an example, you've heard about our separate news organization already.
By tailoring it for our needs, Versant's costs are lower than the previous allocation from NBC News. The creation of Versant gave us this opportunity to pursue this zero-based approach and also to incorporate the latest technology to benefit the business. We've re-engineered the video stack with automation, reducing its cost profile significantly. We successfully deployed AI agentic capabilities within GolfNow call centers and the course management software. That lowers our costs and also improves the customer experience. And we are working to deploy AI in our corporate enterprise systems to drive additional savings across the back office. And finally, we've designed our cost profile to be responsive to market conditions. The majority of our cost base, other than sports rights, are addressable in the short term, which allows us to flex quickly.
You've seen it in our pre-spin results with costs declining in 2025 to help offset some of the pay TV revenue pressure, and this isn't just about reducing costs if revenue doesn't materialize in line with our expectations. As we drive incremental revenue, we can scale our cost base and infrastructure, which supports healthy long-term margins, so we put it all together. Our goal isn't just about maintaining profitability, but rather it's to build Versant into a growth platform. We're going to do that by shifting the composition of revenue towards areas with strong growth potential. All the investments we've discussed today contribute towards this objective. You may recall that Mark mentioned upfront that 17% of 2024 revenue was sourced outside of pay TV, and this is from higher growth areas such as platforms and digital advertising.
We believe that over the next several years, that's going to increase to about a third. Then our long-term goal is to achieve parity with half of revenues from these growth areas and the other half from a still highly relevant, robust pay TV business. Our balance sheet is a major asset facilitating this transition. As you can see, this is our day one capital structure with $3 billion in gross debt, $750 million in expected cash, $1.5 billion in total liquidity, and that includes a $750 million undrawn revolving credit facility, and we will have modest leverage. Also, our business will continue to generate strong cash flow and be well capitalized, supporting our growth investment strategy and also providing a significant advantage over other market participants. Our capital allocation approach supports and aligns with the four principles of our financial strategy.
So let me just kind of recap what the capital allocation approach is. One, we're going to invest in the transition of the business model. Two, we'll maintain a strong balance sheet targeting a modest 1.25 net leverage. Three, we're planning for an attractive dividend, of course, subject to board approval, and our target is to allocate 20% of free cash flow to that payout. And then finally, we plan to seek board authorization for up to a $1 billion share repurchase. And within that mechanism, we'll determine the right level and timing. I'd like to provide a little bit more detail on that first capital allocation principle I just mentioned, and that was about investing behind growth and transitioning the business model, specifically how we will be good stewards of capital following a disciplined process for investment decisions. It's something we take very seriously.
We employ several criteria to evaluate opportunities, and those on the screen are some that we view as particularly fundamental. Things like alignment with the four core markets we reviewed earlier, support of the transition towards higher growth businesses, strengthening of existing brands or adding compelling new brands, unlocking clear synergies, driving value and returns, and maintaining the strength and integrity of our balance sheet. The two strategic acquisitions I mentioned earlier, Free TV Networks and IndieCinema, they're highly aligned with all of these criteria and illustrate our process at work. So with that, I'd like to share our forecast for 2026. We view 2026 as the first year of our business model transition, and that means we are focused on attractive investment opportunities to drive change.
We expect revenue declines to be similar to modestly better than in 2025, between 3% and 7%, with tailwinds from the 2026 midterm elections, as well as two new product launches, the Fandango AVOD, and MSNow subscription services that you just heard about. We expect EBITDA decline roughly in line with 2025, between 7% and 14%, as we invest back in the business and support the new product launches. And we anticipate free cash flow to be between $1 billion and $1.2 billion, with conversion from EBITDA modestly lower than in 2025. That's driven by two main factors. First, some one-time working capital swings that's based on how we're handling the post-spin opening day balances between NBCUniversal and Versant. And then second, some incremental CapEx associated with our permanent headquarters facility build-out.
Looking at our overall trajectory, our focus in the immediate term is to maintain strong profitability, largely from pay TV, as we invest to transition the business. That will help stabilize revenue over the medium term as we scale growth initiatives outside of pay TV. And then over the long term, we grow both the top and bottom line, realize our vision for a more diversified revenue mix, and establish ourselves as a platform for growth. And now, to close out our presentation before we head to Q&A, please welcome back our CEO, Mark Lazarus.
Thank you, Anand, and thank you. And thank you all for making time for us this afternoon. After all of that, if you're still wondering, you know, should I invest in Versant, let me leave you with this: yes.
But with Versant, from day one, you're going to get a portfolio of iconic brands that are all established leaders in large markets, have the opportunity to expand and evolve in those growing markets. We have a highly profitable economic model with clear financial visibility, and we are well capitalized to have strategic flexibility. We have an experienced leadership team, all of which you've heard from today. We're ready to seize this opportunity, and we are confident that it will be a rewarding investment for years to come. Now, to get to Q&A, let me have Anand and Wiley come on back up, and we'll get to your questions. So thank you very much.
Thank you, Mark, and thank you all for your time today. We look forward to answering some of your questions.
We have about 20 minutes, and we ask that in so doing, you limit yourselves to, if you would, one question at a time. That will ensure we get to as many people as possible, and of course, if you have additional questions, you're welcome to rejoin the queue. We do have people positioned around the room with microphones, so please raise your hand, and we'll get one over to you right away, and with that, let's get started. Ben, I see you in the corner.
Thanks, guys. Thanks for all the time and information today. It was really helpful. You know, I think when Comcast announced the spin, a lot of people probably assumed you'd be a buyer of cable networks or a seller of cable networks and participate in consolidation, and your strategy is pretty clear. You want to diversify the business.
I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about your sort of bigger picture M&A philosophy. And Mark, if you're successful executing, what does this company look like, you know, maybe 2030, you know, five years out and getting this business back to growth?
Thanks for the question. So I think look at that sort of there's two ways to answer that, or two not two ways to answer, but two sides to that. One is certainly the scale question, right? So you know, I think, and hopefully we were clear that we believe in vertical scale, not necessarily horizontal scale, right? So we have these four core markets and vertical markets, and we want to grow in those markets because we believe there are growth opportunities, significant growth opportunities, and we have strong brands with which to lead on.
So I would say vertical growth versus horizontal growth would be the first way that we're going to increase our scale. And then I think the second, what do we look like in the future when you think about what we're going to do with premium content, how we're going to grow, continue to grow our audiences both organically with investment that we haven't been able to do much before by choices we collectively made at NBCU, and then going into those growth markets and investing into new areas, digital areas. And the presentation will give, I think, is clear. And I would expect that that part of our business was not well known to most people and that that really helps illustrate how we're thinking about growing into the markets. And by 2030, we should look a lot bigger in these four growth markets. Do you want to add to that?
Oh, sorry, go ahead.
Oh, the only thing I would add is on the horizontal scale. We're very happy with the portfolio that we have. I think a lot of people think of horizontal scale within networks, and I think what you've heard a lot from us today is that 62% live sports and news, that's the scale you need, at least in our opinion, and so we don't really feel that there's much value for us, frankly, in having more scale in that area. So that's, and then, as Mark said, the vertical scale is really our growth strategy.
Kutkan, go ahead. Mike, if the mic could be directed right over, oh, I'm sorry.
Thanks. Kutkan Moral with Evercore ISI. You know, over the last few decades, media networks and legacy cable network portfolios have improved their negotiating leverage through consolidation. Following the spin, and especially without the benefit of NBC Broadcast Network, can you talk a little bit about how you're viewing your negotiating leverage relationship with the distributors and broader distribution strategy evolving going forward? Thanks.
I'll start with that. I think when you look, first of all, we've announced a year ago that we were spinning, and we've done a variety of deals throughout this past year, all with the distributor knowing that we were spinning. We're very pleased with the outcomes of those deals. We believe that our portfolio, the sports and news portfolio, is what is helping drive distribution. Another part of that is that our product and content today is exclusive. We don't stream our content really anywhere.
We're creating some D2C, but we'll do that and we'll work with the distributors to make sure it works within their ecosystem as well. We're not trying to go around them. We're trying to create different products. So the strength of 62% news and sports, four networks of our portfolio live in that world. We've been placed in the sports and news skinny bundles with all of our products. So we feel very confident in our position. And the last year, the deals we've done, I think, bears that out.
Brent, to you.
Hey, everyone. Thanks for doing this. This is Brent Penter with Raymond James. I want to talk a little bit about your digital strategy from a streaming standpoint. You all talked about MSNow going to streaming and building a platform there. You also talked about licensing content to other streamers.
So how should we think about the go-to-market for you all in streaming, and how does that differ from network to network in terms of where you might want to build your own platforms and where it makes more sense to license?
So I'll start and then jump in. So I think the way you ended your question really helps frame the answer because it is, you know, we think of this, you know, at NBCU, we were a branded house, right? This will be marketing speak, a branded house, everything treed up into NBCU. We're a house of brands. We have individual brands, and we're focusing our digital strategy on the individual brands. MSNow will have its digital strategy, really its first-ever digital strategy and a direct-to-consumer. In CNBC, we'll have its direct-to-consumer digital strategy. Fandango, or the entertainment side, will have an AVOD strategy.
So we're going to do work with individual brands. We don't anticipate creating an aggregated SVOD service. That's not, and on the entertainment side, we think really fueling and diversifying revenues by being ad-supported as opposed to SVOD will be a winning play for us.
Gentlemen right here.
Thanks for the question. Mike Ing from Goldman Sachs. You know, it seems like a critical part of the revenue diversification goal is to grow vertical software, consumer subscription. You know, these types of products, you know, tend to be loss-making as they scale. So, you know, could you talk a little bit about the profitability about things like GolfNow, IndieCinema today, your willingness to incur losses to grow and scale, and then similarly, just your CapEx philosophy, you know, to support the growth in those types of businesses? Thank you.
Sure. So let me answer part of your question right up front in terms of kind of the profitability profile of our platform businesses today. So, as I said, we have two major kind of digital platforms in terms of Fandango and GolfNow. They're both profitable and do very well and have been profitable for quite some time. So I think in terms of our kind of P&L trajectory on those platforms and our willingness to kind of absorb losses, I think, A, we have some advantages in terms of what that loss profile might look like because, again, we look at everything in total. So, for example, let's take golf. One of the reasons we were able to get GolfNow and kind of get it off and running quickly, and actually, even in the early days, didn't experience those loss profiles, we had the Golf Channel.
So you had this audience that you could kind of take and then really get adoption. Your cost per customer acquisition costs were much lower. So I think in these four verticals, because we're coming with existing assets, that loss profile doesn't necessarily need to be as steep as compared to somebody who's coming brand new into those markets. So, yes, early days, when you first start launching, is it going to be profitable on day one? Not necessarily. But we're also not, we don't think you're looking at significant losses and you're kind of banking on profitability way, way into the future. You know, our plans and really for all of the, even the acquisitions we're talking about, we're expecting them to contribute positively kind of in the near term.
Great. Let me just look left. Any questions on this side of the house?
All right, now I'm going to look right. Any questions on that side of the house? Okay, now we'll go to the center. Perfect. Right here.
Can you hear me? Okay. Great. Thanks for having this event. Very helpful, very informative, very specific. I wanted to ask specifically about sports rights. I mean, you're partnering, you're distributing the Olympics with NBCU. You made it clear that, you know, for the other stuff, the WNBA, the golf, obviously you're doing that yourself. You have your independent programming, broadcasting, all that stuff. So I'm wondering, what are your decision factors to where you're going to partner with somebody else to go after the sports rights? Is it to get higher ROI? Is it to get out of these niche segments of sports back into NBA and, you know, NFL?
Or, you know, and then are you trying to also get like higher ROI? Just trying to get an understanding of what the thought process is. And also, like, how long is this partnership with NBCU for the Olympics?
Well, I'll answer that very specifically first. Currently, that partnership goes through the 2028 Los Angeles Games. It doesn't mean it might not go further. That'll be their call. Those are their rights. And we are a good distribution partner for them. And we have a lot of history with that. But we're very excited to be part of the next two games for sure. In terms of sports rights, we have a very nice set of rights with the Premier League and WWE, NASCAR, all the PGA Tour, + all the other golf assets. We potentially could partner with other people.
We would always try to talk to our cousins at NBCU, our old friends. But we're going to be opportunistic and look for sports rights that drive three things. I mean, I look through everything in the sports world through three lenses. Does it have an audience, a built-in audience, pre-sold demand? That's one. Does it drive differentiated and diversification of advertising revenue too? And three, what does it mean to our distribution partners? And does it help us either maintain, drive, or increase pricing on distribution? If you can get it, buy a property that handles all three of those, that's a big win. Two of those three, that's probably pretty good. If it only hits one of those three, it's probably not something we're going to look at. So that'll be sort of the filter that we look through as we analyze sports rights.
Any other questions? Thank you for your time. This concludes our formal program. We hope you'll join us for reception, and we look forward to keeping in close touch with you.
Thank you all very much. We appreciate it.