Workiva Inc. (WK)

Investor Update

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Sep 20, 2018

Ryan, who is the our EVP in, chief revenue officer, which is a title that's probably familiar to most of you, but it means that he, he has both sales and services, reporting to him. We've recently combined those 2 operations. And Scott's going to talk about our go to market strategy. And then I'm gonna I'm going to wrap up and we'll also have quite a bit of time for Q And A over to you, Scott. As, sorry, one other thing. I'm sorry, one housekeeping thing. At 1:18 pm today, Our federal government has decided to light up everybody's cell phone with an emergency warning. So, you might want to turn your phones off or or a mute or something. And if you hear that go off at 118, don't be afraid. It's awesome. Good for them. So as, as Marty laid out this morning, the intent of the presentation, and please, I know this is an ASHA group, feel free to hit me questions as we go. There are a handful of points that I hope to make to you. Most of those are going to illustrate the changes that we've made on a year over year basis. So I'm not going to spend a ton of time. I got a handful of slides. We covered on a number of topics that we will probably go a little bit deeper afternoon as it relates to the go to market strategy. But my intent is really just to help you understand what changes and improvements that we're making as a company as we come out of this transitional period from a product perspective, obviously the natural transition that we need to make is to start to accelerate the effort that we're making from being at a sales perspective, and I'll talk through that at a fairly high level. As Stuart alluded to, we recently have aligned our sales and our service organization. We have a singular organization now. We did that for a couple of reasons. It's obviously fairly prevalent in the industry. From our perspective, it accomplishes a couple of things to help us, it helps us to continue to drive consistency in our messaging. It helps, from a productivity an efficiency standpoint, obviously, get our teams better aligned also helps us think more holistically about the customer experience and the customer journey. So our goal as a revenue organization is to reaccelerate the company's growth rate. As we do that, we want to think and be mindful of best practices and efficiency and productivity as we go. And so it's part of the reason that we align the organizations. So the global revenue organization, and incidentally, we have recently stood up a revenue operations organization, again, pretty standard in the industry for SaaS companies of our size, new to us, goal of that organization is really to look holistically at the data and the customer experience and help us improve the journey for our customers and working with across all aspects of our processes and our touch points. On the left hand side, on the sales side, Obviously, here's where we're thinking about accelerating growth at the operational level. We put it into 2 basic buckets. One is really revenue optimization. So what we want to do is continue to have success in the use cases of the solution and some of the more mature things that we're doing as a company. Meanwhile, we want to be able to incubate growth. That's how we think about it. We have, for our strategic accounts, primarily a direct sales model, When we talk about the improvements that we want to make in the sales organization, we think about things like message, process, skills, structure. And so the structure remains largely the same as it did this time last year. With direct enterprise account coverage, we continue to invest very heavily 3rd party and internal training. A big part of what we are trying to do is help our sellers who have been with us for some time who are exceptional and hardworking to help them understand what we're looking for as we evolve into more of an enterprise solutions company. So to do that, we know we need to meet our buyers where they are. Studies show that buyers are 60% of the way into their, into their procurement process when they initially engage. And so we need to be able to meet and pick up the cadence that they have as thinking about buying. We've invested pretty heavily in skills and training in that area. Structurally, we cover what we would call our strategic or enterprise accounts direct folks. We have seen significant productivity improvement in what we call our corporate or our mid market accounts, which is our volume business. We have a hybrid approach there. We start from an inside perspective and only under certain circumstances do we allow those sellers to travel and participate face to face. So a little bit of a hybrid model there as we continue to grow. We grow the number of solutions that we take to markets. We think there's there's a leverage point that we can have there and having those folks primarily focused on the end. We are primarily named account and geographic. Have a separate team, as you might expect, that focuses on our SEC land business. We are looking into some more specific coverage model in financial services where we have things like our regulated risk reporting and our investment reporting portfolio. And so we're definitely looking at a little bit tighter coverage in an industry model around financial services. And as we explore other industries and other specific use cases, we'll look at potentially adding some other focused teams as we go. On the partner side, just to level set, we signed our first, literally our first business partner first quarter 2017. So we've been at this about 18 months. We're building foundational skills or muscle memory in this space. We started that journey focused on regional part and the intent there was to get lessons learned and expertise and how we as a company would reach out to partners and exactly what investments we would need to make from the skills an experience standpoint. There was an announcement this week about KPMG. And so we started with regional firms were obviously starting to interact with the big 4 around their particular practice areas. So the KPMG announcement this week talked a little bit about The GRC or the SOX practice, obviously a comprehensive partnership announcement, but we're focused primarily with them from a go to market perspective around internal control SOX. GRC type capabilities. We continue to talk to the big 4. We're particularly interested to expand into their financial transformation practices have a lot of good interaction as the product is maturing with some of the finance transformation folks from both the regional and the big 4. You talked about technology partnerships. We spent a little bit of time talking about SAP today. The priority for us is 1st party integration with the ERPs. That's pretty straightforward. You think about the Office of the CFO, whether it's a Chief Accounting Officer, the CFO, where we typically have landed and we want to expand, we want to be part of value chain, part of that message. I have a positioning slide next. It'll show you how we talk about that. Managed services BPO primarily in the stock space, about 40% of the SOX business is co source outsourced. So we've got a nice run rate business that we've established without a dozen or so SOX partners. From our perspective, not only for that revenue lift, but it also gives the skills and experience. If we think about growing that business in the future, we've got folks that are ready to deliver. Not an area where we're looking to scale up the services part of our business. In OEM and reseller, we've got a couple of these, got a new one in Asia, I'll show you a chart in a couple of minutes. We have, one that we use in the federal government here. Again, going back to the point about building the foundational skills, We know that as we start to explore new solutions and new markets, specifically things like the federal government, as well as, Asia Pac, we know we are going to need the expertise internally and the knowledge and the understanding of how we want to interact with resellers as we think about scaling. Services side, pretty recent for me over the course of last month that, that I have the privilege of leading our world class services organization, as we talked about this morning, with due respect to our R and D folks, this is the secret sauce of Warkiva. We are a customer centric company customer service is an important part of our brand. These are the folks that make it happen. Pretty standard in the industry in terms of onboarding. We could get a little better at practices. We got a lot of feedback. I was sitting with our customer advisory board a couple of days ago, and big part of what they were telling us to tell us where to go. Want the best practices. We want the roadmap. We want to know where to go with your technology. So we've got some work in that area to be a little bit more proactive and that's some of what we're be focused on on the course of the next 18 months, getting those folks less reactive, less focused on Marty's point, getting that last 5% customer satisfaction and more focused on opportunity identification. Starting to do that, we're seeing some good results, but we are at the early stages add support retention on here. I would add to that transition. You talked to quite a bit this morning about our next generation technology as we complete the work that we need to do to get to that parity, big part of what our customer success teams are going to be doing over the course of the next 6 to 12 months. Is helping our customers discover the new technology through Hey, here's your classic marketing Chevron slide. So we used this slide in a couple of ways and I wanted to show this to, to this group. We get not uncommon for customers to ask where we really fit. You go in and you talk to a chief accounting officer, you talk to a chief financial officer, a lot of companies, a lot of technologies in this space, many of them up on this, on this slide or partners. So this helps to position really where we fit and where we see ourselves. So the punch line here is if you look at the left hand side, the plan record close and consolidate, companies are spending, and I alluded to this this morning, more than 2 $20,000,000,000 annually on ERPs And Business Intelligence, yet at the end of the day, taking the output of that information They're dumping it into a spreadsheet. They're putting it on a share drive. They're passing files around via email. From a data assurance perspective, it's an absolute catastrophe. So we believe where we primarily add value is that last mile of reporting, the right hand side where you see the ability to leverage Wdesk. We don't have W data on this particular slide, but W data is that analyzed piece. So we think about prep from a standpoint of validating this market in the validating this message in the market. And we've been telling this story. Obviously, marketing and sales, you would expect for us to be a little bit ahead of the product. We've been telling this story and preparing our customers for this over the course of the last 18 to 24 months. And now from my perspective, the question was asked by somebody about data prep Data prep is what makes this happen. It's what gives you that end to end data assurance. It allows us to engage from a persona perspective with the finance folks. So we've got great presence in the accounting community. This gives us the ability, particularly with our enterprise customers, to be able to go have that credible conversation with finance, have a credible conversation with It really is, from a sales and marketing perspective, a game changer for us. So the first way that we use this is with customers who, where we've landed is NCC, and we wanna about expansion. The second thing that this is really helping us with is our business partner relationship. When our customers want to understand expertise and where we fit, obviously, we want to be part of that CFO value chain. We believe reporting is essential part of that value chain. This does help to position with partners with some of the industry analysts and some of the other materials out there helps them understand really where we position. Okay. Both Stewart and I are going to talk about growth drivers, from a slightly different perspective. And again, feel free to ask questions as we go I talked a little bit about the notion of, from an operational perspective, the way that our teams think about the business is to optimize the near term revenue, go after some of our more mature offerings while we incubate growth. That's what we've been thinking about as we've been transitioning as a company, while we've been building the next generation platform. And so on the left hand side, upper left, These are our current use cases. It's where we expect the revenue to come from for the remainder of the year and into next year and beyond. SEC and investor relations were obviously well known in this space. As Marty, I think, alluded to this morning or maybe it was, in his opening comments, yesterday continues to grow at a double digit clip for us. We've got tremendous share there. We have some discussions internally about how big the market share is there, but it is it's obviously a very healthy IPO market. We're also seeing a tremendous amount of business from referral, customers who have, churned employees. So employee leaves the company goes to a new place. They don't have WDS. They call us and we get some short cycles. So it continues to be a very strong business for us. SOX, we talked a little bit about, we talked a little bit this morning. SOX is interesting, right? Our customers drove us to the SOX space with With 1st generation Wdesk, they started to manage their SOX processes with core Wdesk. We built our database product, that supports SOX. We now have more than 600 customers. It's another double digit growth business for us. It's a great business for us. We're having, as we alluded to this morning, some discussions about where we want to go with this of our business and how business partners can help as part of why you saw the KPMG announcement. We obviously, this week, announced audit, Our team is incredibly excited about audit. It'll be generally available in January. We have an unlimited launch internally as we're building the expertise we need to be able to deliver at scale. We are expecting it to be, have a really positive impact next year on ourselves. Capital markets we've alluded to on a couple of our conference calls. Capital markets is an obvious adjacent business for us growing. It's one of our fastest growing business areas. It's an interesting business for us. We do have a dedicated sales team. The way that we approach capital markets is more of a holistic view of what we can do for private companies. So your Q and K like financial reporting, get your house in order, go through the S1 process S. On the other side of the S-one process, we can help you with your SEC. We have markets team working together pipeline is very strong. I don't think I have to tell the folks in this room the cyclical nature of this business. So it's something that's growing. We're trying to be pragmatic in thoughtful about how fast we want that to grow, as we build the expertise that we need to internally from a services perspective. And we think this is another area where potentially business partners can scale in the services side. Management reporting is kind of generic, and I've alluded to it already in the positioning slide. For me, management reporting were known as financial porting. But that's just because we happen to land in the SEC and we sit in the office to the chief accounting officer and the CFO more broadly. So for us, we've been talking about management reporting for a number of years. However, we lacked functionality from an aggregation and a visualization standpoint. We have the best collaborative reporting platform in the world. We excel at that last mile of reporting, but it's a little bit difficult to get information in. I know I'm going to have to clean it as I'm pulling information in. That's what data prep can do. And then on the visualization side, our presentation product was not our focus. You've had the opportunity to walk through and see some of the innovation. We talked about how quickly the microservices architecture has allowed allowing us to bring that presentation product to market. Our team is incredibly enthusiastic about having the aggregation piece combined with the visualization piece to give end to end management reporting, something that we expect to see growth, strong growth in 2019. From a new markets perspective, I've got another slide and I expect some questions on our approach to the international markets. Gonna cover that in just a second. Government we alluded to this morning, I also have another slide on this one. Government, I spent, 10 years selling into government. Somehow survived that experience. The question this morning was we see that you've invested in FedRAMP are we going to see any kind of an outcome from that as we get to the end of the government fiscal year here in the next couple of weeks? What I will tell you is we've invested in a small team We are evaluating internally how aggressively we want to move into this market. It is the world's largest IT buyer. There is significant pain in this market, both on the control side as well as the financial reporting side. We think Wdesk is going to be a hit to federal government. Excuse me. We knew we had to make the investment in FedRAMP. We've been trying to build pipeline ahead of the expected FedRAMP ATO. We got the FedRAMP ATO in May. Had a number of RFQs that while they weren't brand name justified, why they didn't call out Workiva by name. They are, there are requests for quotes that are out that, that are absolutely the sweet spot of what we do where we've had and been engaged in customers and we're optimistic that we'll see a couple of couple of our first landmark federal customers here in the next couple of weeks. So, you know, more to come on that one, we will see, you know, a little bit of a preview there of some of the business we're hoping for over the next couple of weeks, but, that's a business that we expect to grow pretty rapidly over the next couple of years. We've got some got some decisions we have to make about how fast we want to grow that. It's not typically a short term investment. It intends to track on September's cycles for enterprise solutions like ours. Where we go from here. We spent a lot of time this morning talking about W Data. I've got another slide on partners and happy to take some questions. So when we take a look at Internationally, obviously, I don't have to tell the folks here in this room are listening on the phone. These are very, very different markets when you look at EMEA and Asia. And we certainly see it the same way. We've been in EMEA for a couple of years now. We, most of what we've been doing in EMEA is supporting our global customers. Global U. S.-based customers. We have had a small sales team there. We see tremendous potential in this market. The focus on controlled both from the EU and the accounting standards, some of the things that are in the pipeline, on the regulatory space, really, give us some optimism We've hired a senior and experienced leader, runs our European business. We're doing a great job of integrating our sales, our marketing, our customer support teams in order to incubate new solutions. ESMA, I'll call that one out. There's more than 5000 ESMA companies, companies that have to file under ESMA between now and 2021. So we think that's a good use case for us. We've got about a dozen different use cases, things like, statutory global story tax filing and reporting. So we've got a number of different things that we're starting to incubate. We feel very good about the pipeline that we have for that. We're expecting to see some aggressive growth in 2019 in India. Asia, a little bit different from a regulatory perspective, obviously a less mature financial market. There's still a lot of problems that are being solved with low cost labor. We do have and have hired externally a talented general manager. Who is on the ground in Singapore. We're attending a lot of marketing events. We're meeting with business partners. We think this is a business that we could scale with the help of our partners. And we are, absolutely excited about that based on some of the feedback that we'd be getting from Big Four, some of our other technology partners, we think there are a couple of different ways that we can approach that market leveraging the best practices that we built here in We talked a lot about FedRAMP. I've alluded to the opportunity in federal. Again, from our perspective, big market, world's largest IT buyer, we think there's a product fit. Want to go too fast. As Marty had alluded to, we are at FedRamp low. So there is a part of the addressable market that you can get after FedRAMP low. So we have the authority to operate. The RFPs that we've seen that are out there publicly available indicate FedRAMP low. So We think there is some business we can get after. Ultimately, as a company, we have to make the investment going forward with FedRAMP of, some of these trade offs decisions that we alluded to this morning, as we go down the path and get more aggressive in the short term in the federal business, certainly a business we want to grow, but how quickly do we want to grow relative to some of the other things we might be able to accomplish with the next generation snapshot from our customer base, again, still pretty early in this journey for us. We've only been at about 18 months. Starting with the regional firms, saw the KPMG announcement, again, pursuing specific practice areas, particularly finance transformation. A new product comes online, capabilities of aggregation and visualization, that last mile of finance, we think there's absolutely the opportunity to be part of the value chain there. Technology side, we talked a little about SAP. This Marty alluded to, we've made investments in 1st party integration, certifications and building our skills we've made investment and have good sponsorship to the executive management level. It's a process. We've already benefited tremendously in our ability to go in and articulate the value of this relationship to our customers. Regardless of where we go from here in terms of the specific to the SAP Partnership, this is absolutely something we felt we had to do in order to best serve our our larger customers and CP customers. See some of the other names on there as well from the other ERPs and we're in the process of building first 1st party integration with all the Managed Service BPO in the sock space. We're looking into in Asia, for instance, where, much of the accounting and the reporting processes are outsourced, we know we're going to need to have those skills that expertise and the knowledge of how, how to partner. So that's a big part of why we've deployed it here in the U. S. We got about a dozen or so SOX managed service partners. And the OEM and reseller Trident is one to act. Okay, we talked a lot about the technology this morning, specifically about workspaces, I have a little bit of a different perspective on workspaces from a go to market strategy standpoint. Workspaces has helped us to evolve, as a company to driving usage of the driving the number of users in our customers. It's we have and we'll continue to look at internally. It's how we price the product. Part of what we've asked our new Our new product marketing team to do is come in and take a look at our how we price the product. Are we getting the optimal value? Are our customers benefiting from the way we price the product? After that study, we determined very quickly, we wanted to move to a solution based license model. One, there may be a few questions. Happy to answer any about this. We are in the process. The user based license model has served us well. It's gotten our company at this point. Obviously, tremendously successful for us. But as we look at the ability to deploy rapidly new solutions, we want to be able to charge for those But for us, from an economic perspective, it makes absolute sense to price on a solution basis based on the horizontal nature of the platform and wanting to take and identify new use cases, new solutions and ask business partners to build new solutions. Gee, that's absolutely true. It also gives us the ability to create intellectual property on top of that partition, whether it's us or a business partner, we can go to market. Our customers have been asking, and it felt a lot of pain in our license model, obviously it's a trend in the industry to get away from user based licensing. A lot of administrative costs on both sides and managing users. We are also fundamentally under the hood, a productivity platform. So as we drive increased productivity, need less users involved. And so it's a bad model from that perspective. The other thing is that we have occurred, we have, we've seen in our customers a sub optimization of the product. So when you sell collaborative, you sell a collaborative platform, the value of the platform goes up when you drive usage. And the user model was getting in the way for some of the intermittent users or casual users, if you will, companies were avoiding the costs of incremental users and were deploying this software in a way that was suboptimal. So we listened to customer feedback, we have solution based pricing. The way it basically works, there is a value metric. You can think about solution based pricing. I think of it as a form fee that comes in a small, medium, and large, if you will, right? So these are not, we have value metrics, so we've aligned the value of the product. With specific metrics. So the other challenge with users is the number of users are not always a good predictor of the value that you're getting from the soft you may be getting something that's tremendously valuable that four people are using. And of course, the commerce can also be true. You get a misalignment of the value. So we have specific value metrics And we have essentially a platform fee that you could think of as small, medium and large. So for example, in the sock space, and this is one where we listen to our customers where we were getting ton of feedback. Hey, I'd love to get more people involved in the SOX process, but I'm not going to spend whatever they call it in the case of SOX, we've aligned the solution based license value metric for that is the number of controls. That's pretty standard. Some of the other companies in the industry are also doing this in the stock space. The point there is value of the software with the problem that you're solving, that value metric of controls is a much better, has a much stronger correlation of value than use. And so we have about a dozen or so solutions today. We're obviously looking to build them out as we go. And what we've done is we've aligned different value metrics with each of the solutions. So tax, its entity in socks, its users, and we have other value metrics. Questions on the value metric for SCC, we do it by revenue. There wasn't a great, R squared with SCC, quite frankly. And so we had initially, kept the SEC model in place. We now have transitioned our existing customers to, a solution model that's based on users, so it's small, medium, and large. The key point that I want to make is within the solution, the number of users is unlimited, right? So it changes the behavior inside the customer. So if you're customer with us and you've got however many users you've had. In the solution based world, right? We aligned the cost of the solution by the number of users or revenue out there for SCC? Is it revenue? Okay. Yes. So we align it by revenue. So you now can deploy that in an unencumbered way. Or if you want to use this in a legal department, as long as it fits that SEC use case, you can deploy it in an unlimited way. As we think about our enterprise customers, part of what we hope to do is really change the demand trajectory to where we have either Byzantine procurement process that are getting in the way and the inability of people to add users or they have a vision for how they want to use software for a particular solution and want to be able to deploy it without counting users, physically counting users and having that burden, that notion of having unlimited per solution is going to drive a different value for the You may want to repeat. Okay. Good afternoon, everyone. This is Terry Tillman from SunTrust. So there's a lot going on here. We're replatforming the product. We're going to introduce solution based pricing to your customers. I'm just curious, how are you thinking the replatforming, you have given us a lot of information, and it seems really systematic. They're getting like is in feel of some of these capabilities earlier on. There's a nice transition going on. There should be. But on the pricing, how are you going to push that through your installed base? New customers, it seems more simple. Is this a phased approach? And theoretically, if whatever the use case they were using, if they have unlimited usage, it would seem like mathematically, I mean, these customers may be that their bill is going to automatically go up, but I'd love a little bit more color. Yes. So they should expect to, I'll take the last part first. Sales guy, right? They should expect to spend more if they're going to get the value of unlimited. So the question, right? And it's incumbent on us to help the client understand the value of having unlimited. I will tell you, 1st and foremost, part of the reason we kicked stream frustration with our existing user. Right. So clients don't want to count users. They're frustrated because they want to grow it. Maybe they can't go get to whatever the incremental amount of might be for those users slowed down by procurement. They don't have the time to work on it, whatever it might be. So the first value that they get in moving to solution is just getting off of users. And so that's a pretty easy conversation. The second thing that we do, with our customers is we help them you go and you do a very rate in the process that will give them more value in the software. They readily agree that I should have more people involved in this process than I don't today. So it actually is a fairly straightforward conversation for, the customer. I've had 50 or 60 of these at this point, they understand the value that they're getting, the notion of paying more is not that hard for them. I mean, they very quickly understand that, Hey, I've got 50 users day, there's probably another fifty people that could be involved in this process. Now, maybe they're a casual user, and I don't really want to pay the full cost of a Workiva user, but I definitely want them participating. I don't want them to have to share back and forth with an Excel spreadsheet. It's a relatively it's a more straightforward conversation than you might expect. So it's a very strong value statement. It's, the fact that they by and large have assets. If you look at the sock space, they were clamoring for something other than user. Because they know that they have a ton of 100 or 1000, depending on the size of the company, people that could be participating in the SOX process, but they're not willing to pay a full blown license for somebody who's just providing evidentiary information. So it's relatively straightforward. It looks like Marty have a comment. You know, comfort thing here. Wanna be ready to jump in at any minute? No. You're going just fine. The only thing I want to say was that We have good experience. We just went through the quarter to annual transition on contracts. We have a really professional team And they work with the sales people. They work with all the ops teams. We put together a waterfall of who we're going to touch when and why. And we've gotten very good at that. So this is a more complex conversation than the quarterly to annual, but the Scotts point, he's done a great job of training the sales people and we'll improve that even more. On how you go through that process. And, you know, it's something we're confident we're going to come out ahead on. There may be some churn, but financially will come out way ahead. And the other thing that I think just to emphasize what he said, because he does talk fast, very eloquent, but he talks fast. Jersey. Jersey. The way it's structured now, we customers do go through a lot of unnatural acts to keep their price down. And it really deflects from the total value. You know, someone uses it marginally. They don't see why they should spend a thousand bucks a year. And so they go through a whole bunch of pain, introduce risk. It's just an unnatural act. And that's been going on for a long time. And the friction to add one seat would be so painful. And then on our side, we have all these speed ads processing, all sorts of costs in our back office. This thing just and then even, specking, you know, solution for a customer used to be the first question. We ask, well, how many users do you want? It would take them a month to figure that out sometime. So This is shortening sales cycles. Everything is affected in a positive way. We do have to have a very careful intelligent conversation with the customer who explain why it's better for everybody and they generally get it. I mean, they're generally thoughtful intelligent people. So. Yes, we've been at it. Really the first quarter that we've implemented it and the early returns are very positive. In terms of the potential impact on churn in some of the Could you just give us a customer? We'll be able to redeploy Stewart somewhere for You're not. Could you give us a customer story or something, like a real world example of somebody who's done this and what's happened, or is it still too early to do that? I don't think it's too early. I mean, I think so there was a lot of pain in socks. I will say that, right? So, there are there are probably a dozen. This is a very easy conversation in socks because you have people by nature who want to bring more folks in for the control benefit of that. And so that's probably the easiest. I think within regulated risk is another one. So I was traveling to a customer recently in the Midwest and we were talking about their CCAR process. And so we had a champion who was, originally SEC filing manager, now the Chief Accounting Officer had positioned us with, you know, her, her colleague in the regulated risk reporting space around CCAR and was telling us how the, the product really wasn't living up to its potential with team. And the reason for that was they had a very limited budget, so they chose to deploy it in a very suboptimal way. And they were essentially sharing files back and forth and they had basically a core team in that particular CCAR process that was doing all the WDS core. Well, that's not at all the way the product is intended. So we very quickly, that particular customer was thinking a broader enterprise license agreement. And instead of that, we decided to back off a broader, longer term agreement focused on a couple of solution areas where we implemented the solution based license model for them. So they get the benefit of unlimited. They get the that we gain the momentum internally. And so then when we want to go have that next conversation around a more comprehensive enterprise license, we've got the right demand happy customer. We've got the right demand projections. The product is working. We have great value points as we go into procurement. We want to have So that's the best recent example I can. If I think about the effective solution based pricing simplistically on revenue. You've got one where I had 50 users and I was looking at these other 50 casual users who would add value to me. I do solution based pricing, and now I'm Fortiva's getting 5% 10% pick some number more in revenue from me as a customer. Case 2 is I'm now exposing more people in my organization to work Eva and to Wdesk. And they may then adopt it for a totally separate solution in their area, correct, because they just simply didn't know about it, of course, been exposed to it. Right. Could you talk to the 2 of those, you know, as, as revenue impacts? So specific to revenue, the, let me try to put it this way. So first, our product marketing team did ton of analysis and the potential impact to our revenue. We obviously wouldn't go down the path of implementing solution based licensing if we felt it was going to have either a near term or a longer term. And we're building for the long term, as you saw this morning, So, you know, we think about both at the same time. Without getting into the guts of it, you know, we definitely looked at, okay, post SEC, which is typically how we land in a publicly traded company. Post SEC what's going on with that adoption. And what are the barriers to that adoption and how do we change the adoption pattern. So what are we giving up? How much would we have to charge from a very simplistic financial model? How much higher would we have to get in terms of the average deal size in order to cover, those incremental users we might see in year 1 or year 2. And then to your point, we looked at it as a trade off decision for us, we had to make sure the financials worked and they do. And then once they worked, we knew that the dynamic of starting to expose Wdesk to more people in the organization was going to create a tremendous opportunity marketing perspective, a brand standpoint, and an awareness standpoint within the customer that will now allow us to is, is the technology underpinning and create new solutions. And so today, yes, to Terry's question, we have a lot going on. But as you think about the maturation of the product and the pricing model working together into the future, as we build intellectual property on top of those workspaces is we deliver templates. So we deliver best practices or whatever that intellectual property might look like around these specific solution areas. It becomes very clear that today I'm using you for SCC, and we've got a lot of people participating in it. Now I want to go use Warkivah for high management reporting I understand what's in that. We saw there's a positive both short term and long term question specifically. Just one thing on top of that. We've been struggling a long time how to get broader adoption and It wasn't until we brought in, yeah, certain some of the marketing people had it. We've been trying to drop unit price suggestion exactly the wrong thing to do. So we raised it back up. That was a gymnastic move. But nonetheless, is that the only way you approach it, but where, you know, you get a lot of viral movement is to reduce the friction of adding seats to 0. The only way. So we can't predict what that's gonna do, but it's gonna help us. I mean, the more people that log in every day the more opportunity we have to grow and the faster will grow. That's the punch line. And I can't say there's a lot of companies around copy this model from and see what it's done. But I know in the premium model, it works very well. Just you need to sneak eyes on it. So it's hard for us to predict, but we're very optimistic about it. The challenge for us with the freemium model, and why inspection to go, but didn't drive the kind of adoption we were hoping for is the product as you saw Looks like a productivity suite does. It's obviously, right? That's part of the reason users love us is because, the adoption curve Very easy to adopt the software because you're working in tools that you're already comfortable with. The downside of that is it isn't opposed to And so what happens when you encourage the premium is customers were going off starting to solve business problems that we would not recommend they go solve with the So trying to get more prescriptive, I think the solution based licensing does that. From Marty's point, we think it could be an inflection point change in the demand curve in terms of how the software is used in organizations and it'll make the enterprise Are customers required upon renewal to go to solution? We are looking at the renewal points to transition them to solution based licenses. I would, we believe the value point is there that they should We encourage them to do so in a number of ways, but they don't have to move to solution baseline. And then the example of a customer moving you use was 50 users with maybe 100 potential users that are a little bit more casual in nature? One example. That conversation was around maybe the internal users. If I think about your SEC customers, you obviously have people that have outside partners in. Tax audit, consulting. And that specific relationship generically of those incremental 50, how many are outside the organization versus inside the organization? Or is that another 10 to 20? Well, so in the, so again, the thing to understand about the solution based license is it is bound by the definition of the Remember, that we are licensing the product for use in what we define as our SEC. Within the natural boundaries that we described contractually of SEC, you're free to use it. You know, we do get customers from time to time who want to think about the participation of external users, we're okay if they're okay from a security perspective. I mean, they tend to be more restrictive than we are because of some of the security implications. We have discussions with them about that. But in the SEC use case, sure, you may be going back forth with external auditors. I mean, for us, it's essentially rounding her. I mean, it is in a high percentage basis for that particular use case of people that would be At least not traditionally. If we start to see that happening, it becomes something we need to be more aware of and we'll obviously have that data and we'll we're not expecting. The SEC spacing, traditionally brought 1 or 2 advisors. And I think on average, And I think that from my point of view, that number would potentially go up because it always ends up being a cost issue at some level and justifying buying a license for an outsider inside the company, that's even a harder sell. From my point of view, as long as we're and we know we can do it technologically, but as long as they're restricted to that workspace, the more the merrier. I mean, when we get to have millions of users, then you guys are going to value us a whole different way. So, we're that's our end goal is just to get as much, as many eyes on the product as possible. So it's nothing but a good thing. Mean, look at outside counsel is a good example, right? I mean, that's a good referral business for us potentially. So, the trade off for us is not so significant. It is not as if we expect to see 50 SEC users in terms of 200 external Again, if we start to see something we're not anticipating, we'll make the appropriate. What's the process by which, like let's say the company is doing SEC reporting, what's the process by which at Workspace that they haven't purchased previously gets enabled, isn't that still a friction if, if, like, for example, the FP and A team wants to put five people on performance reporting or something? So I'm not sure I understand the question entirely. Let me see if the answer is, on point. Separate today, separate a little bit the technology from so as the technology is evolving as we're coming to market with with workspaces as we're transitioning our customers from generation 1 to generation 2, which we talked about. There is a transition period of moving from first plastic version, if you will, to the next generation. From a licensing perspective, part of what we have to do as a sales team is help to educate the customer So the benefits of, first, we have to notify them the changes happening. Obviously, if they look to expand into one of our other use cases, and we are typically talking to them about it. It isn't as if a customer using SEC suddenly decides to go do What's more typical is that we're out engaging with them actively talking about the different solutions that we have and we are helping them through that discovery process. But if a customer wants to go there and they're currently on users, then it's really incumbent on us from a value perspective to figure out how we're going to Did that answer your question? And there was a bit of a technical question in there with the license piece. Now from a licensing perspective, it's an education process with our customers. We're being very proactive in helping them understand why we're making the transition, why it's good for them and others. So the idea is we're catching a minimum number of them by surprise. That's not and so that part of the conversation? I mean, anytime we go sell a new solution, it's a sales motion. It is a sales motion. And so that's fine and healthy. It's just we know we're going to get a consistent amount of revenue from that sales motion. And I don't want to get excited about an FP and A team that wants to buy three seats, right? I want to, I want to go in and say management reporting or performance reporting costs this much. And if they say, well, we only want two seats. The sooner I know that, the better. I just don't want to deal with them. So if it's a bunch of people in FP And A, that are doing work for SEC reporting, that's great. You can get them exposed as they come on for, as part of the other solutions. So it's, we just don't see any downside to this change yet. Just don't see it. And one other thing, when we make these changes, by the way, we, we do very careful waterfalls with the customers and we test it. Like the first thing, the first we did 200 out of we're almost 3300 customers now. Well over 3200. And we, we, we, we tested, you know, a couple 100 at a time. And then we get the data and we know exactly what we're doing right or wrong and we tweak it and continue on. If something really bad goes wrong, where we know right away that hasn't traditionally happened. I've been running around, bothering all your customers on this question. I found a couple that have said they seen the solution based pricing offer from you guys? And then most of them seem to think it's like a 25% or 30% increase in the total. Yes. There's a, obviously they're getting unlimited users, so you know the price is going up, but I I'm just asking. Order and magnitude is that kind of what we're talking about? We don't have enough data, though. We really don't. It's going to depend on solution. It's going to depend on how they're using the product. And there's a bunch of different dependencies in there. It's the best way I would answer the question right now. We got early data on it. When we have numbers, we feel good about total share. Yes, I think that we anticipate it's going to be a positive, obviously. And I don't know how many of our customers are harassing all the time, Adam. But I'm just I'm just you have a white lanyard, though. I'm just kidding. You just pulling your leg a little bit, but no. No. Talk to our customers all you want. But it, it, It's, like we said, the first group we put through the process in the waterfall was a good experience for us and them. We have customers, as you might imagine, have discount expectations range. So it's a little bit hard to answer that question, right? I mean, it's quite to say we're looking to increase the average deal size as we go. And they should expect to spend more. Everything is statistical. Thing here that we are executing on. And so some customers are always going to not like change But at the end of the day, we're operating in a statistical world where we're looking for the bulk to be satisfied and improve everybody. The customer and the investors in our own delivery and positioning of the company. So Situations where we're proactive and we're properly positioning Oh, yes. So I did get a couple of questions about, this particular report, partner analysts, Financial Close Solutions upper right, the way that we use this in the field, I was asked to talk about, how do we really use this for customers? It helps us in a couple of ways. It helps us, significantly with procurement as we're entering into particularly with larger customers where we're starting to talk enterprise and we're moving in a direction of working with their their procurement teams on a more structured, longer term solution. It helps from a validity standpoint to help them understand, hey, we're per right. The place where it's even more significant with us is with business partners. So, the different practice areas that we're looking at, think about financial transformation. If you are a big 4 partner focused on financial transformation, you care about this quadrant and the fact that Orkiva's in the So I've got sort of a couple of slides and, not much. You guys get to hear from me more than you like. So, Safe Harbor. So Scott talked about these in some detail. And I just, I put a, I put them in the way that I think about it, which is a little bit in terms of time dimension. And, with the overlay here. So we've got the near term SEC, Merrill exited the business and now, the financial printer, the Japanese financial printer that acquired, Merrill is going through re platforming. So there's probably some opportunities there that we haven't had before, but SEC business continues to grow, double digits. And, SOX and internal controls as Scott talked about, With the extension with audit management that's been enabled by workspaces, we expect, be able to make some nice add on sales and appeal to some new customers who were looking for a broader platform. Financial Services has always been a strength of, of WDS, we had the fortuitous case of being in the market when, the, regs around CCAR and Dodd Frank resolution plans came out. But with the broader functionality of Gen 2, we'll be able to scale that up even more. And it's been a, it's a market that is slow from landing a new logo, but the add on sales come very quickly. And so it's, when we look at customer acquisition costs, it has to be looked at holistically. The, on capital market side, I think Scott covered that. In management reporting, we think, is going to be, accelerated by, data prep, which I hope all of you have a chance to test drive, down at the, downstairs And then, corporate income tax is a new use case that has been, it's corporate income tax reporting. It's a new use case that's been enabled by, by workspaces. And, you know, this, as a CFO, I can tell you, it means a lot to me because we spend almost as much when we're not profitable, right? We're not profitable. We spend almost as much money with our external tax counts as we do with our external auditor. And we are, as we push out internationally, it is complicated. Our tax calculations, significantly. And We talked to customers and they've got serious pain in this space. So, I'm pretty optimistic about this about this solution. I mean, I do think we're going to need some domain expertise and help from partners. But, it's a perfect use case for Workiva because finance and accounting professionals are producing reports under time pressure with a lot of unstructured data. And have to meet deadlines. On the longer term, when we talked about federal government, APAC, where we're just getting started, And then certain other industry focuses, which we'll talk about, perhaps again, next year. And then the overlay of the partnerships is force multipliers. And that's, again, it's a broad concept for partnerships and includes, SAP and APMG to take 2 disparate partnerships, but others are contributing. Scott said, it's early days, and we're getting some traction building muscle memory there. And, solution based pricing, which we've, licensing, which we've talked about. So, I wanted to reiterate the target financial model that we promulgated at the time of the IPO back way back in December 2014, it has not changed right hand column there. And this is before, this is non GAAP for equity compensation. And And then, in this case, the severance of our former CEO in the left hand column. But the targets at 75% gross margin 25% for R And D expense, which we acknowledge is still high. But it's the nature of what we're doing. And then the sales and marketing expense line is going to be the last one that we achieve, in my opinion. But, at scale, the account management model that we follow, settles out about there. And then G and A expense at 10%. Marty made a commitment to profitable growth on the last conference call. That's a commitment from the entire management team. And, we take it seriously. And, as we indicated earlier this morning, we do see, some benefit in operating leverage on the R and D line, beginning in 2019 and perhaps a couple of the other lines. But we are committed to have consistent improvement in operating margin. Questions about that? Not exactly breaking news here. So many of you guys have seen this slide, but the point of it is, This is the rev, our revenue cuts by the industry of our customers and by the size of our customers. And our subscription revenue is very granular. And there's no customer who accounts for more than 1% of revenue. We, it's amusing to me to have procurement apartments of big companies who found the table and act like they're 10% of our revenue, but we've had to break it to them that they're actually not that big. And we love them, but We don't love the amenity cost. It's a great diversity among industry groups. And you can see on the right hand side there, we think we've got quite a bit of upside left with the Fortune 1000, particularly with the enhanced scalability of Gen 2. On the addressable market side, so one illustration on the addressable market is that Scott and Marty talked about the sort of the end to end solution, for SAP customers. I mean, we really enhance the investment our customers have already made in SAP, right, by adding that last leg for them. SAP has 404,000 customers in 180 countries and only 1000 of our customers run SAP. So, we're, we're fairly optimistic about our ability to, ramp it up here. 150 K number comes is our sort definition of what we are trying to achieve for enterprise customers. And as you guys know, we've started promulgating this data earlier this year to give you an idea of how many customers already paying us $150,000 in subscription. And over 10% are now paying us over $100,000. And I look at that as a, as our pipeline for enterprise. The likes of ultimate software and others have built pretty nice businesses with 150k model. And we, Scott's been doing a great job of tweaking the delivery model, to, shift some to more inside sales and lowering the customer acquisition. So that is, those are our prepared comments. I'm wondering if, what questions you might have remaining, yes. The ESMA in line XBRL opportunity in Europe seems pretty exciting. How do you plan on capitalizing on that? So as I alluded to, a bit of early stages, I mean, we have a team that's been on in Europe for a number of years now. We're scaling that up, making significant investments rolling out here. We don't expect to see significant benefit from that on the revenue side till 20 But we think we're very well positioned. I mean, it does seem to fit in our feed spot. If you look at the execution in the SEC side and the opportunities. So from my perspective, at least on the go to market side right now, it's about making sure we've got the team in place ready to capitalize. Did a pretty nice job last year with some of the IFRS regulation we saw in NICE. This is much bigger. There's more 5000 target customers. We are looking at some of the intricacies of that market and much of what companies do is outsource to accounting firms. So a big part of what we're asking our general manager to do is go off and make sure we're vested in the right relationships. But not only the direct model, we want to take the best practices that we built and what we've learned in the U. S. And we want to learn from that, but we also want to leverage some of the foundational things that we build in the business partner. So I think you'll see us with more of a hybrid approach from a go to market standpoint, but we absolutely feel like that. We should be a very strong Europe's really a greenfield opportunity for us. We have fewer than 100 logos right now. All right now. When we think about what, here and now in terms of growth, because obviously, with our installed base, as was pointed out earlier, we're migrating to the new solution. We are, changing our pricing model. We are positioning ourselves very well. We absolutely, to the point about Greenfield, we'll be investing in Europe over the course of the next building that team now, we're hiring in Q4. We are expecting to see from our investment in Europe in 20 Thanks. Matt Van Bley from Stifel. Again, I guess, as you're looking at the overall partner community and You said you focused on sort of regional players first and now as the product and large customers have scaled up and you're looking at the federal opportunity. You announced KPMG. What has been the level of interest from the bigger global SIs as, you know, workspaces. It opens a lot more opportunities for you within a customer. You guys have sort of openly talked about not wanting to get in the services game quite as much as maybe those opportunities require. What is the balance though of supporting the partners that came on early versus cultivating new partnerships that, you know, are sort of direct competitors to those already helped you along the way. Yes, it's a really good question. Thank you. And we're going through our equivalent of a fall planning exercise right now, looking at how we want to I talked about optimizing the revenue and getting very, very efficient in how we go capture share in SG And A stocks and some of the use cases that we're very familiar with. Part of what we're doing under the hood is looking at what can we invest because we have to invest. So to your point, we've got great regional partnerships and we've got to manage service companies base. For us, from a global scale perspective, with new technology really believe that we need to, whether it's with a regional partner or with a strategic global partner, we want to be moving more into the financial transfer space. Now we know to do that. We're going to have to build a certain amount of we don't know how to do it. We're not But obviously, when you're thinking about pursuing larger scale transformation, you've got to work within ERP or you've got to work with other budget planning solution or whatever it might be, you're going to need that system integrator expertise in terms of tying things together, we're not going to build that. What we will have, however, is making a significant investment more on the equipment side. And so we've got new logos. We've got relationships. We've a business together, we know who we want to work with. Now it's about that next level of granularity of how can we build under the hood inside, inside Fortiva, the right business unit underneath those global partners, those regional partners to help them deliver the first few times. So it's really moving more into when you think about aligning the 2 organizations, sales and services, allows us to make some trade off decisions about how we want to invest in types of skills that we can embed in business partners and Thank you. Hi, Hamza Fodderwala from Martin Stanley. I just had a couple of quick questions, for Scott. On the partnerships with SAP and, KPMG. Could you maybe share on a high level how those economics work with both from a go to market and technology integration standpoint. And for Stuart, you just reiterated the 20% long term operating margin target. What kind of growth rate do you foresee associated with that? I know the SSC market is still growing double digits. So, any commentary over there? Yes. So the only, you know, the only guidance we've given on growth is through, the end of the year through 2018. And, we'll get to that when we put out 2019. I think that, as you know, we're, we were forecasting 20 141,000,000 dollars, $241,000,000 of revenue for 'eighteen, which implies services and subscription together about 16% top line growth. We just put up 'nineteen, but that's, that's for the full year. So what we haven't put it out yet is the end. On the SAP, we are, have not, come to even do discussion about economics or but we're still in the, we're still working with joint customers on improving out the use cases. Partners is centered around our managed service business box. So as I alluded to, that's a nice run rate business for us. A dozen or so companies That creates real lift. So for everything else, it's in the general category of, today, of an assist business. With SAP, we announced an OEM relationship. And what that means in practical terms for companies of our size and working with SAP is, and we're moving through as Marty alluded to this morning, various SAP gates. Ultimately, what we're trying. So as Marty alluded to, we get tremendous brand benefit benefit in front of the customer, the clarity that positions us as extension of what they're already investing in with SAP. So today, you're going through some kind of a migration from your on prem solution to HANA, that's going to take an extended period of time. It's going to be very typically, it requires a very significant financial investment in sponsorship we can help you with the manual parts of the tail end today. So I think that's without having SAP here. I think that's part of what SAP relationship. The practical reality is we're working through the various stages. As we go along the way, there are various levels of OEM relationships within, in SAP and that's going to have a different impact on the economic level. So from a practical standpoint, part of the reason we haven't been able to model it yet don't know exactly where we want to be and it's got to be a mutual business. They have various levels of partnership going through the gates. We'll figure out ultimately what's going to work best for them us and then we'll be able to build some economics. Very optimistic about the partnership, but a little bit difficult to predict the economics exactly where we're going to land inside the SHO system. As it relates to KPMG, again, broad partnership, what it validates is, market position that we have and that we're starting to move upstream looking at global type deployments and companies that want to think about it that way. And certainly KPMG and their peers are are in the category of being able to help us. We know we don't have the expertise. We know we won't want to scale as a software company that way. We know we're going to need their help and to help others. The SAP relationship is fundamentally focused, although it's broad, it's fundamentally focused initially in the system. So as we bring KPMGs? Oh, I said SAP, I'm sorry. KPMG is fundamentally focused in the stock space direction. So that is the first thing that we're going to go off work on together. We have the new audit product, which we've released. We have other capabilities as our engineering capacity is freeing up, thinking about some other things that we can build in the control space. Where we're going to be going to. So there again, still early, a little bit difficult for us to build an economic model on it. Should have over the course of the next quarters, we should have a better idea of what benefit we Right, very much. Hey. Can I stay on that SAP point? So if I, by no mine, German fellows, well, like, at the moment, they're trying to force base to go to HANA, which is basically a huge project and you have to do all your customizations again. So all of the, as I said, we're talking to, we're kind of all really happy, be critical in process change, etcetera, etcetera, for the next 2, 3 years and get rich. But what does it mean for you guys in terms of available dollar? Because if the guy the big guys or if people have to move up, like is there money left for you guys to kind of be involved in that? Yes. I mean, I didn't make the point when I showed this slide. Thank you the question though, because I meant to make this point earlier. I mean, there is quite a bit of competition. If you look at the office of the CFO space, the logos that I showed, which is only a representative sample of the companies we bump into in the office of the CFO. A lot of competition for dollars I don't want to represent SAP's position on this. What I will say is, as you allude to, the migration from any ERP from on prem to cloud, which is fundamentally something that just about every company that is working through. The challenge for whether it's the the implementation partner that is performing that or SAP or Oracle or whatever on prem vendor is trying to make that migration they want to find quick wins. So what I would say and the opportunity for us and the financial opportunity for us in the short term is moving from that SEC provider, to that management reporting provider where we're helping you find that quick win. At the end of the day, even when that's finished, you're going to take the put it at work and more likely to not dump it into, dump it into Excel. You're going to put it on a share drive, you're going to pass it around via email. So we can help with that today. You've made this monumental investment, ERP platform migration, be it SAP or Oracle or any of the other providers, we can provide that quick win for the executive sponsor that this project. Hopefully, that's helpful. I would also say that we're interacting with customers who have already made that transition. To S4HANA. The other interesting thing is that the interface that they provide works equally well with HANA and with they're on prem solutions. They have a very robust interface that we go through. There are some in the middle that transition and the issue you talk about is, is essentially real there. There's a lot of them that are saying we're not doing it for a while. There's more of those than anything, frankly. So, and then that's only roughly aftermarket, all the Oracle So it's a small number of accounts that see that type of is for dollars. So it's always competitive, but that extra intensity because of an S4HANA conversion, we run into that occasionally, but it's not a high percentage of our accounts. Sorry to go back to Europe, but I want to make sure I am thinking about it right. So there's 5000 ish people who need to file, by, what, like, January or February of 2021. That's when they have to file in line XBRL. And XBRL, as I understood it, is what really drove your SEC business in the U. S. When it first took off? 12. And so it is 5000 companies for financials that are really adopters in 2020, but it'll be mainly a 2021 Okay. And is the revenue per customer going to be similar or are these smaller businesses or smaller needs? So it's early to tell. But I suspect it'll be, as higher or potentially higher for the following reason. It is more expensive to hire accountant in Europe than it is in the US, and it is much more difficult to get rid of them. So the European CFOs are much more attuned to labor saving automation software than And I have in my head there's like 4000 accelerated filers in the U. S. So there's more. A bit more than that. Yeah. Thank you. The one dynamic I would say, Alex, and I've alluded to this before is, again, there is more co source outsourcing of accounting supporting processes. And so that is part of what we're digging into here that we're well positioned to capitalize not only direct opportunity where its self-service will important part of the value proposition, but also how do we make sure that we leverage and the current use of EXPAREL in Europe in general and particularly in the UK as was for income tax. And so that was a natural thing for the accountant, accounting firms to pick up and provide a sort of a tail end service. You know, we did your income tax. Now tag it and send it off to the HMRC Organization. And so this is different. This is tagging your public financial results in your, annual report essentially. And they take that very seriously. So you have to be very careful not comparing it to the tax It's like us comparing our SEC thing to the call report, EXPAREL mandate. You know, it's like, so I think that as we get closer, you'll see the Stewart's point, a company starting to look very carefully at it. They're going to understand there's going to be a deal and labor shortage for a year or 2 during the transition. And so I think that, you know, we'll be well positioned and I think that the to Stuart's point, the price point will be, you know, comparable anyway. How about the Data Act? Is that ever show, are there any federal agencies who are going to do anything with EXPAREL or any states that are going to do anything with X- I mean XBAREL just seems like it's that thing that created the pain point that resulted in the largest sales driver for you guys. So Yes. So, and I think you know about this too, but there was a memo from the OMB that indicated they were okay with sticking with CSV files for now. Treasury has a different viewpoint on that. Which, again, we've never been in our forecast. So we, we weren't, we were not expecting it. But, O and B did come out with a decision 4 months after they were supposed to. So we'll see. It would be positive if they did, but there's nothing Back to Europe quickly. You know, who would you be displacing there? Here, it was Donnelly and Merrill. Who would you be displacing with, Well, it is incremental, right, for everybody, I think. I mean, but the cast of characters is fairly similar. Really similar. There are a couple of smaller European players, but there are a number of XPRL. Most of those are tax related, services. It's a big enough opportunity though that wouldn't surprise us to see somebody pop up who hasn't played before. Well, thank you guys. Thanks everybody for coming. We appreciate it very much. And, I hope you can stick around for the, the keynote this afternoon and for, the WildHorse Saloon this evening.