Welcome to The Pebble Group Interim Results webinar. All attendees are in listen-only mode, and questions will be answered at the end of the presentation, although you can type in your questions by clicking on the Q&A button at any point. This webinar is being recorded. I now hand over to Chris Lee, CEO, and Claire Thomson, CFO. Chris, over to you.
Thank you, Tamzin, thank you, everybody, for investing your time with us today. These are the half year results for 2023 for The Pebble Group. My name is Chris Lee, I'm the Chief Exec of Pebble Group, and joined by, I think it's about 550 people in our business, so great quality, and one of them is with me today, Claire Thomson, our CFO. We've been part of the business for, well, myself, 23 years, Claire, about 16. So really invested in that business emotionally, absolutely, but also financially. In the management team, we have around about 9% of the share capital of the group.
In terms of how we're gonna do things today, just gonna give you a little introduction into the, the industry that we're part of, and then some highlights on the half year results, and then Claire will take you through some numbers, and then we'll go into each of the businesses. Our businesses, Brand Addition and Facilis in turn, and we aim to be done in around about 20 minutes and take some questions at the end. So, we said we're Pebble Group, but two businesses called Brand Addition and Facilis are our sort of operations within that organization, within the group. In terms of the industry we're part of, we're really part of the promotional product sector, and promotional products are all around us. It's a much bigger industry than people would actually realize at first.
And so it's all businesses, all sizes, all sectors, and all geographies. They're using promotional products to promote their brand. And so you'll have some in your office, at home, in your car, where you've received a gift and a product from a company, which really is kind of trying to make an attachment between you, the stakeholder, and the business itself. And on an overall basis, we think the business, the industry is worth about $50 billion, so again, much higher than most people would think. In terms of how we fit into that industry, so if you start at the top there, the global industry, around about $50 billion. The stats tell us that sort of half of that is in North America, and we'll come on to why that's important in a moment.
And the way Pebble Group fits into that is we've got visibility of about $1.5 billion worth of that industry, and that's through our two operations, Facilisgroup and Brand Addition. At Facilisgroup, about $1.4 billion goes through our technology. So we're not making the sales there, but actually we're helping those sales move efficiently from a distributor or from a supplier to the distributor into the end user. So our technology is helping that process. We have visibility of about $1.4 billion of that market, and in the USA, that's around 6% market share. In terms of our products business, Brand Addition.
Brand Addition sells products to some of the best companies in the world, some of the best-known brands in the world, and really looking to produce quality products, engages their stakeholders, and delivered on a global basis, with a, you know, real provenance to the product, of where it comes from, whose hands is it made in, and and kind of what factory was it made at. And that business has around about an 8% market share of those really large corporates, is what we estimate. So that's how we fit into the industry. In terms of the highlights for the half year, in terms of profit growth, around about 12% at about EBITDA level.
Net cash kind of generated about five, sorry, GBP 4 million more than we had on the balance sheet this time last year, and Claire will talk about how the working capital cycle works. And that's after the first dividend that we made this year as well. So really, it's around about GBP 5 million like-for-like difference in terms of where we are with cash versus last year. And how do those numbers come together? That's through Facilis and Brand Addition. They're doing all the hard work. And on a sterling basis, revenue growth in Facilis is 24%. On a dollar basis, that goes to around about 18%, so we had a little bit of a tailwind there.
That GMV is really growing through the gross merchandise value, that is, which is what our customers are pushing through our system in terms of sales. We talked about that $1.4 billion on a global basis, generally second half weighted. I think that might be about $1.5 billion by the end of 2023. Brand Addition, less growth, but I still think a really super performance from that business. In a really difficult economy, when some of the large corporate budgets have been tested, Brand Addition growing, I think is a, you know, super performance. And to put on top of that, growing that gross margin, again, in a very difficult circumstances by three points, I think is a super performance from that business. So they're the highlights.
Claire will take you through some of the numbers.
Thank you. So kind of continuing the theme of the highlights, these are the group KPIs and, you know, all moving in the right direction. So that incremental revenue translating through to EBITDA and that EBITDA margin moving forward as we're starting to see the impact of the high margin SaaS business at Facilis, you know, on our overall group profile. And that kind of goes all the way down the P&L, so our EPS is moving forward at the half year, and as Chris has already touched on, you know, cash is GBP 4 million ahead of where we were this time last year, and GBP 5 million on a like-for-like basis when we take into account the dividend. And look forward.
In this slide, it's just kind of giving you a bit of context on the, on the kind of financial dynamics of the group, and in, and in particular, you know, we've got that products business in Brand Addition and the the tech platform, in Facilis, and, and, you know, they are quite different in terms of their impact on revenue and EBITDA. So left-hand side is revenue, and you can see there that those those product sales in Brand Addition are the lion's share of that. Facilis tech platform, much smaller proportion, I mean, fast growing, but smaller proportion of the sales, and that translates through to EBITDA.
Then, when we are earning on those Facilis revenues of 50% EBITDA margin, and so that and we're now seeing, as Facilis continues to grow, Facilis is, you know, getting towards being 50% of our group, and we've signaled that we expect that to continue and we'll push past that number as we move through 2024. A little bit more detail now. So P&L, you know, we touched on, you know, everything's moving in the right direction. Revenue growth of 5% for the group, but that splits into kind of the 24% with Facilisgroup and then that growth at Brand Addition, which as I think we've already said, was smaller, but a great performance in what has been a, you know, a tough macro.
You can see our margin, our gross profit margin moving forward. We were at 38.5% this time last year, we're now just, you know, just under 43%. As a combination of two things, so again, it's the impact of the growth in Facilis on the overall group financial dynamics, but also that super performance at Brand Addition, where the gross margin has moved forward by three points. Again, you know, I've said it already, but just to reiterate, we move it, as that's translating through to Adjusted EBITDA. We've been investing heavily in our tech platforms at Facilis, and that's starting to come through as we signaled it would at the year end in our end-year charge.
But again, you know, all moving forward in the right direction, and then operating profit is ahead of where we were this time last year. Cash flow remains really kind of straightforward, and that strong profit to cash conversion metric continues. Just to recap for those that, you know, are new to the story or those who, you know, who've kind of forgotten, the movement in the working capital in the group all relates to Brand Addition, and that movement in the working capital cycle is in line with our usual, you know, our usual experience, where we are high in working capital at half year, and that will unwind as we move to the year end.
Again, this week, we've signaled that we're expecting to land a cash number that's out there in the market for the year end, and it's kind of, you know, consistent profile with where we were last year. I've talked about investment in CapEx. You can see that that's moved forward this first half, and, you know, have continued to invest in those platforms at Facilis. And then, again, we've talked about the dividend. You can see that payment going through there. Other than that, it's all fairly straightforward. Balance sheet, again, you know, nice and simple.
So the current assets, you know, the piece in there that's of interest is the investment in our platform at Facilis, and that's kind of, you know, we have invested in that over the last 18 months significantly. We've brought new products to market, and that's been amortized over three years. The rest of the working capital in the balance sheet really sits with Brand Addition, so that's the blue chip customers that we'll come on to talk about. So it's high-quality assets underwritten by our customers in terms of any stock that we're holding for them, and our receivables and payables are just moving in line with the sales volumes. All metrics remain as consistent with prior years.
Okay, cool. Thank you for that.
I think so. Are you going this one?
Yeah, you got one more. Yeah, go for it.
Right. Okay, yeah, so again, we, you know, we introduced this slide at the year end, and just kind of and, and just to kind of reemphasize our use of capital. So, you know, number one, we had GBP 50 million on the balance sheet at the end of December 2022, and it will be around about GBP 17 million when we get to this year. And we think that's a sensible place for us in terms of cash. Touched on Brand Addition and its use of working capital. Brand Addition, you know, there's no working capital in Facilisgroup. Brand Addition does require working capital as it grows, so there will always be a little bit of investment there, but that's proportionate to the sales volumes.
Capital expenditure, we have been investing in Facilisgroup to increase our product offering, round off our product offering, and increase our addressable market. We're at the peak of that investment in 2023, and so that will be coming down as we move through 2024, which is something that we've signaled. And, you know, the investment in Brand Addition is at, you know, generally a consistent level every year. We've introduced our maiden dividend. Well, we did introduce our maiden dividend in 2022, and signaled that we want that to be a progressive policy, and that's what we intend to do in terms of our kind of immediate uses of cash.
Thank you, Claire.
Go on now.
So, taking that, I'll run through Facilis. Claire will do Brand Addition, then we'll finish with some ESG and head into questions. A little bit about the model. The way the promotional products businesses work, you have suppliers who are specialists in product categories, the end user, the brand, you know, wants kind of all products, and so that creates that need for the distributor in the middle to sort of bring all together. You know, at Facilis, what we're trying to do is bring technology to that market, to help efficiency for the supplier and the distributor and into the customer. And that's kind of what the premise of the business is based upon.
On a historic basis, as we look back, what's been going through the business is at, you know, $1.4 million of our customer sales, what we call the GMV, the gross merchandise value. That's through 238 partners now, around about 1 million orders, and we have some preferred suppliers that we try and help the supplier, the good suppliers, and our, and our customers come together to make great efficiencies and, and, you know, and support each other in, in kind of growing their own businesses. So, technology above that market is, is what Facilis does. Looking back, and these are all historic, so, sort of the, the, the revenues and the EBITDA, the growth on, on the top, is really created by, the, the KPIs below. So, really all moving in the right direction.
And, you know, this is probably one of the few businesses in this industry that wasn't affected by COVID. You can see some nice lines all moving in the right direction. It's all in U.S. dollars, which is the home currency of our business. So, partner growth has been fairly consistent, which will drive GMV, and therefore, that those lines going up. And you can see there that GMV is generally bigger in the second half than it is in first. And again, if we kind of help our customers work with a great group of suppliers and preferred suppliers that we use, and they can kind of grow each other's businesses and get great pricing, great products and service, that kind of preferred supplier spend helps our business as well in terms of growing.
So looking back, sort of those KPIs at the bottom have really driven the numbers at the top. As far as looking to the future, we have invested, you know, very clearly and, and, and spent, you know, you know, thoughtfully, you know, some investment in the CapEx. And so now as we look forward, on the left-hand side, are the products that we're gonna have in market. So the top product called Syncore, that's what everything has been based to date, our performance and our financials have been based to date. That's an order workflow system that's helping our customers efficiently manage with their suppliers and their teams and to help them professionalize and grow. We're bringing a couple of new products into market, Commercio Stores and Orders , which does a couple of things.
It helps us sell more to existing customers from the store side, but also the order side is taking us to, you know, the long, fragmented tail in the promotional products industry in North America. And so they're quite different products within the same, the same, industry. And, and rather than kind of talk about Facilisgroup and this product, this product, this product, on the right-hand side, what we're kind of bundling all that together and saying, "You know, we're here to provide technology and services to the promotion products industry." We drive the GMV forward, the GMV forward by, by using those products, and we're gonna kind of try and, you know, grow the attach rate that we collect from that GMV, and that becomes our income.
So that sort of right-hand slide, you know, this kind of half year is really a handover to say, that's the main KPI that we're using on the right-hand side here. How we're driving GMV forward, the attach rate that we're able to collect from there, and the multiplication of those two is the income that we receive at the end. And then, so I think that's our elevator pitch, is that right-hand graph, but what we want to do is to make sure investors who know us pretty well and kind of want to get into the detail, that we will supply information that helps them really kind of get into the detail. But kind of beginning to summarize this, we'll bring new products into the market the way we've described on the right.
In terms of customer numbers, you can see sort of Syncore, our main product, and that's something that we sort of should never take for granted, we can continue to invest into, and that's continued to grow in terms of customer numbers. But our new products now, Commercio was non-paid, when we kind of spoke to you last, and had around 130 customers, and they've turned into now 55 paying, which kind of a large proportion are, our existing Syncore customers, they're taking more than one product from us now. Our Orders product, which is aimed at the order workflow, for the really long tail in the promotional products industry, that's kind of out there and being tested at the moment. We hope to launch that early next year.
On the right-hand side, you know, growth in all these three areas, we hope kind of moves that forward. We invested in the business, and the business was like just about $10 million. We've taken that over to $20 million, and we really want to kind of demonstrate to an invested community and our, for our own ambition, that, you know, we, we're taking that beyond $30 million, beyond $40 million. And, you know, we really think we can kind of use the investment we made in this industry and the large, fragmented nature of it to kind of push ourselves towards $50 million. If we can do that, you know, it'll be a huge success.
In terms of what that's meant in capital expenditure, you can see on the left-hand side of the graph here, our EBITDA has grown. So the sort of 2020 to 2022, so the 2023, they're our actual numbers. And we can see there, our EBITDA is the sort of the total, and then we've split that pretty evenly. You know, we spent our cash has probably stayed quite similar because we've been spending and investing in CapEx on the new products. And so as that new product it will continue to be invested in, and but now sort of less heavily than when you started those up and launching them, you know, that curve comes down slightly.
So as that curve comes down, our cash elements, so the cash conversion goes up, and if our plans come together, our EBITDA keeps moving forward, and you create this mount, which kind of is a, you know, growing cash balance. And again, that's sort of a demonstration of the principles we're trying to look for rather than sort of forecast. But continuing to grow our profitability and get help with new products to do that. And you know, coming down, but still absolutely investing in our products, but coming down slightly from the peak, you know, that kind of should create, you know, if we do things right, a nice cash balance at the end.
And then sort of, you know, we start, we put this in at our full year results to say what we're trying to do in 2023, and that is continue to develop the Syncore. You know, partner retention is very, very important, and we must keep an eye on that, and it's very high. But also attracting new partners into that. In terms of kind of putting Commercio out there, it's now a paying product, but we need to keep investing into that and developing product to make sure that becomes a market leader. And then the third thing, we're kind of well on the way to launch an order.
So we're at kind of various stages of those three different goals, but all in a sensible place and, you know, very much ambitious to keep going. And, you know, Claire will talk to you now through Brand Addition. Now, yeah.
Yeah. Thank you. So just touch again on, so this is the model of the industry. So the brands on the right-hand side that create the demand, and the suppliers that are generally product specific, you know, kind of supply the products, surprisingly enough. So Brand Addition sits in the middle. So Brand Addition is, you know, we've said, sells product. It's a large distributor, but it's working solely under contract with some of the largest brands in the world. And you know, so every one of Brand Addition's customers would be a familiar name to you. So you know, similar slide to what we showed for Facilis. So the current... The financial dynamics of the half or the prior years, and then the half, first half, along the top.
You know, revenue moved forward by about 3%, which is a really sensible performance in what's been a tough macro for Brand Addition. And then the pie charts at the bottom are showing, kind of are telling the story of where that, you know, how that revenue's moved. And what we've seen in Brand Addition is, you know, our technology clients, they've spent a little bit less with us this year, as have some of our consumer-facing clients. But we've seen real strength in what would be a more traditional sectors of transport and engineering. And so that, that combined, that kind of resilience and that geographic and sector spread has meant that Brand Addition has managed to move its revenue line forward in what's been a, you know, difficult environment.
You know, we again will kind of reemphasize. I've said it a couple of times now, but the team there have done a super job in moving the gross profit margins forward. You know, that's been in response to our customers at Brand Addition asking for us to supply more services. So in kind of the way in which we work with them is more complex, requires required investment on our part, and our customers have been willing to pay for that investment, and we've managed to move that gross margin forward as a result of that.
And so kind of the, if the revenue line and the EBITDA line, as percent, you know, percent—EBITDA as a percentage of revenue has stayed, stayed fairly similar, you know, we have managed to move gross profit forward, in response to those demands from our customers. And, and I think we introduced this graph at the full year, or this chart at the full year. But you know, we often get asked about, you know, what happens to Brand Addition, in a downturn or if life gets a little bit tough? And, you know, I love this slide. I think, you know, it shows that this is a great business, that whatever you throw at it, so we've got a pandemic, we've got Brexit, we've had challenges with supply chain, freight, inflation, FX, whatever.
You know, like, if you look over that period since IPO, managed to grow that Brand Addition revenue by 20%. It's moved its margins forward. We've got 100% client retention of its top, of its top 10 clients, which is the vast majority of its revenue, and we've been really successful at winning new business. So I think, you know, Brand Addition, over time, is a, you know, very strong proposition. It's a great business, and, and this slide shows how, how, you know, kind of it can react to anything that you throw at it. And then again, you know, kind of share, you know, reiterating our goals for 2023, as we did for Facilis.
So, you know, holding on to those customers is very, very important, and so kind of making sure that we retain all of our major clients is, you know, a key focus for the team. Winning new, because then, you know, that means that we can continue to move that that revenue line forward and again, are now kind of focusing in on the success that we've had with gross margin and making sure that we're retaining those improved levels.
That's right. And taking home on some ESG. ESG really naturally weaves its way into Brand Addition and Facilisgroup. So Brand Addition, very much from our customers and sustainability and looking for kind of more and more sustainable solutions, whether it's products or it's freight. And Facilis on certainly on the community side and the sort of efforts we can make there, engaging our suppliers and our partners in terms of making a positive impact on the community. So we have some people who are dedicated in our business to looking after this and do a super job of it. And so we've evolved what we call our four cornerstones.
You know, we've sort of been a public company now for almost four years and kind of keep learning and keep evolving in terms of what we're doing to make sure we're communicating clearly, we're putting our targets out there, and we're kind of, again, articulating how we're doing against those targets. So, there's a piece on there in terms of you know, the four cornerstones, how they've evolved. You know, in terms of how we're engaging with our stakeholders over the last probably six months, we've been out to investors, to suppliers, to our teams, to our customers, and asked them what's most important to them, and pulled our materiality assessment out there.
And so, small print, but this is on our website, and now in terms of pebblegroup.com, and we'll be bringing out our third standalone ESG report alongside our report and accounts early next year. So it's something that, you know, we want to ensure we're doing best practice at, but we're not doing it for the sake of doing it, to tick a box. You know, we're doing it when it actually does make a difference in our tone of voice and yeah, making it naturally weave into the business rather than trying to force anything in there. And that really takes us to the end, you know, in terms of the outlook that we've put. I think we've got two wonderful businesses.
You know, I think, Facilis has some amazing potential, some people working extremely hard there, you know, to really drive kind of new products into the market and, you know, and push kind of our customer numbers forward. So we have some super people there and on Facilis side, and a very differentiated business with wonderful opportunities. And on Brand Addition, again, a kind of more mature business, but some, you know, I think there's about 400 people, you know, from Asia to the U.S. and, and everywhere in between, in Europe, really working hard to push those businesses forward.
And in what's a difficult market, you know, we certainly asked a lot of ourselves and our teams, and we're able to say, you know, in a quite challenging space, that in full year 2023, we do expect expectations to be in line with the market. So, I think that's us. Really happy to answer any questions. Hope that that was okay for everyone.
Great. Thank you very much. So if you have a question, click on the Q&A button and type your question. We've got a few questions already. These results seem to show good resilience. How have the markets you operate in changed over the last 12 months with the current economic environment?
Yeah, I think, you know, I think it has been a little tougher, you know, so I think on Facilis for our customers, so you see the growth in GMV, so the growth of our, you know, what we see the sales our customers are making have, haven't grown at the, as high a rate, and that kind of gives you a sense of that economy in the U.S. And, you know, our customers are very entrepreneurial businesses with some great salespeople in there who drive those businesses forward. So that rate of growth slowing there, I think, has been a bit tougher in this year than perhaps even last. And then on Brand Addition, that probably comes out rather than on an overall basis, probably a sector basis. As Claire said, technology and our consumer businesses, our customers remain our customers.
So they spent a little bit less rather than we lost customers. But we've had some of our, you know, so our engineering and our transport sector and some new business have really smoothed that out. So, I think it is, you know, feels a little hard out there, but equally, you know, there's two great businesses with, you know, slightly different opportunities, but differentiated business in a really interesting market. You know, I think we probably hold our own and, yeah, I think we're pretty tough on measuring ourselves sometimes, and we call it a solid performance. When we've been out speaking to the market, you know, I think we're probably getting a little more credit than we give ourselves sometimes for what we've done.
Thank you very much. What percentage of revenue is in U.S. dollars, and how does the move in exchange rates affect revenue and profit?
Yeah, so it's probably about 30% of revenue is in U.S. dollars. So I think if we're comparing against last year, well, comparing against last year, then I think we've had a tailwind in the first half, and that's probably we're going to have a headwind in the second as we move into, you know, as we move into H2. I think when we're talking about Brand Addition U.S. and Facilis U.S., it's just important to remember that it's the bottom of the P&L that we're translating. So it's the translational effect that we'll have on the whole group, as opposed to the kind of, you know, all the way down.
Great. Thank you very much. Can you tell us more about the Facilis customer base, who they are, where they're located, and what gives you confidence for 2024?
Yeah. So, the Facilis, you know, I suppose our addressable market is wider than it has been now. So, there are something like 20,000 businesses in the North American promotional products market. And, and I suppose our goal is to say to every one of those businesses: "We have some technology that can help you," and that's kind of why we've rounded out the technology stack. If I look back, kind of, you know, what is our flagship product, we call Syncore, is very much aimed at entrepreneurial growing businesses, in that sort of, in that subsector of that. We think there's about 1,600 of those that have revenues of $2 million-$30 million. And, and they're often management-owned businesses, extremely entrepreneurial salespeople, who would like kind of systems to help give them time to sell.
So something that's efficient, gives them good visibility. And so our Syncore product, I suppose our business addressable market is the whole 20,000 there, and then sort of Syncore, our flagship, is a subsection of that, but then the new products coming out give us access to that wider market. So, you know, again, the proposition of Facilis is, if you're in the North American promotional products distributor, one of those 20,000, we've got some technology that can help your business become more efficient and grow.
Great. Thank you very much. And the orders product is addressing a different and much larger by number customer cohort to Syncore and Commercio. How are you marketing it?
So, yeah, it's slightly different, and so, and so that, you know, so that will be involved, being at trade shows, much more online and, and much more direct marketing than we've done in the past. So it is a much sort of wider audience and needs to be looked at slightly differently, but it's a market we know extremely well. You know, we all know the trade associations, we all know the trade shows that go there and the websites that have been sort of viewed. And so it is a slightly sort of more mass-market marketing exercise than we have in the past. But, yeah, that's a market we know extremely well, and it's based in North America.
Tremendous. Thank you. Can you tell us a bit more about the pipeline for Syncore?
Yeah. And so in terms of the investment we've put in, we've got a steady growth, and that's throughout COVID as well. We saw the partner numbers that we showed on an earlier slide, and that's been nice, kind of interesting growth. And don't forget, there is a little bit of attrition in there, so those gross growth numbers are slightly higher. You know, we do want to sort of make sure, you know, we're growing that responsibly, both for internally managing that, but also responsibly in terms of the quality of the businesses that will be joining us. And so I think, you know, we have invested more in the sales team in order to sort of, you know, grow that pipeline. And what we need to do now is see that investment turn into fruition.
But I think we're in a stronger place than we have been perhaps in the last couple of years in terms of pipeline. But pipeline is one thing, isn't it? Reality is another. So we need to kind of turn that potential into some results.
Tremendous. Thank you. And how happy are you with the conversion rate for Commercio, from the trial customer set to paying clients?
Mm-hmm. I think, I think there's two sides to the same coin. So we went from 130, 150 non-paying customers to 50 who are paying. And I suppose on the external, that sort of 30% conversion, is that good? You know, I suppose you could position that where you want. I'd probably like that to have been higher. Well, I would. You know, so I kind of think, you know, as I judge ourselves internally, I think, we'd like that to be a little bit better. If I flip that round and say that 20% of our existing Syncore customers are now taking another product from us, I think that's quite good. You know, so, so, depending on which angle you want to take on that, I think you can kind of look at it either way.
But the facts are we had 150 who turned into 55, you know, non-paying turned into 55 paying, and 20% of customers are taking another product from us. So you can kind of, you know, make your own judgments, you know, which side of the coin you want to look at.
Great, thank you. And can you explain what's meant by the attach rate?
Mm-hmm.
What determines this metric?
Yeah, so it's pretty simple math, and so, we're trying to drive the GMV forward, so the sales that go through our system. And obviously, kind of on that, what we'd like to do is provide quality services and technology that allow us to keep the greatest percentage of that that we can, because our customers are receiving great value from us. So the two key metrics we want to do is provide technology and service that push the GMV forward, and then what is the highest percentage rate we can take from that? And then times one by the other, and that adds up our income.
So it's really a way of saying, we're trying to move GMV forward, we're trying to increase the percentage that we retain of that, and that's in kind of summary, you know, how we're kind of looking to drive revenue.
Great. Thank you very much indeed. That's the end of questions. Do you have any closing remarks?
No, again, sort of always an opportunity for me to probably say thank you to the teams. So our three brands, Pebble Group, Facilis, and Brand Addition, we have some amazing people working really hard, you know, across those businesses. And that's from North America into Europe and Asia, and it's thank you to those guys. You know, they're the sort of people who produce these results. And, you know, I think, as I say, we always want a little bit more, but I kind of look back, and I look at the external environment and say, "The guys have done an amazing job, and, long may that continue.
Great. Thank you very much, Chris and Claire. To everyone listening, you'll be taken to a webpage to give some anonymous feedback on today's presentation. If you're unable to complete it now, you'll get a follow-up email. We'd be really grateful if you could take a few minutes to complete. Many thanks for joining. This is the end of the webinar.