Seeing Machines Limited (AIM:SEE)
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Earnings Call: H2 2021

Nov 24, 2021

Operator

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the Seeing Machines Limited full year 2021 results investor presentation. Throughout the presentation, investors will be in listen-only mode. Questions are encouraged and can be submitted any time by the Q&A tab situated in the right-hand corner of your screen. Simply click Q&A, scroll to the bottom, type your question, and press send. The company may not be in a position to answer every question received during the meeting today. However, the company will review all questions submitted, and will publish responses where it's appropriate to do so. These will be available via your Investor Meet Company dashboard. You'll be notified once they're ready for your review. I'd also like to remind you this presentation is being recorded. Before we begin, I'd like to submit the following poll.

I'd now like to hand you over to Paul McGlone, CEO, Naomi Rule, CFO, Kate Hill, Non-Executive Chair. Good morning, Kate.

Kate Hill
Non-Executive Chair, Seeing Machines

Good morning, and thank you. Thanks everyone for joining us at our second Investor Meet Company event to present our financial year 2021 results. We're delighted to see so many interesting people on the line, and I'm joined today by Paul McGlone and Naomi Rule, our CEO and CFO. Well, the momentum is continuing for Seeing Machines, and on behalf of the board, I can say we are really pleased with the progress that the business has made over the past couple of years. Driver monitoring system technology has become fundamental to safety across the world, much like the seatbelts and airbags that are now so familiar to us. We're buoyed by the continued regulatory momentum that is underpinning a staggering increase in demand across automotive, but also in the aftermarket, and aviation sectors.

Management has done an excellent job of laying out a strategy that supports growth by ensuring that we maintain our leadership position in terms of technology and future development, but also in the way that technology is deployed in cars, commercial vehicles, simulators, and I'm sure eventually in aircraft. Paul and the team have worked meticulously to lay out our path to success. While results can seem far away, we are starting to see that strategic thinking and hard work pay off. Seeing Machines is working with many of the world's biggest transport brands across every sector, and that in itself is testament to our technology, but also to the reputation of the company and of our people. The successful placing earlier this week will ensure that we can deliver on our strategy as demand ramps and deliverables too.

We are delighted to have a new cornerstone investor in Magna International, a leading automotive supplier, who will, I'm sure, be a great partner for our company. Also, it's very gratifying to see a number of our existing institutional and private investors who participated in this recent round. Of course, we also welcome some new investors to the register. Finally, I would like to thank all of our investors, whether you're new to the company or whether you've been with us for many years, for your support. This business does require patience, and we look forward to sharing good news as we are able to, that demonstrates that the wait is starting to pay off.

Seeing Machines is well and truly entrenched as a leading DMS company, and I would like to pay tribute to Paul and the management team for the way they have steered the company, and positioned it well to take advantage of the opportunities before us. Thank you again, and I'll now hand over to Paul, who's going to take us through the financial results.

Paul McGlone
CEO, Seeing Machines

Thanks very much, Kate. Okay. Thanks for joining. Just a bit of a summary, which, you know, frankly is old news. We provided this way back in July, but I think it's important for us to touch base here before we go into, you know, what's actually going on underneath these numbers. For the last financial year, revenue up 18%, AUD 47.2 million, with underlying growth, if we look at constant currency, 30%. Given the environmental backdrop or context, we are quite pleased with this outcome. I think many companies, whether they're in technology or otherwise, would be pleased with an underlying growth rate at that level. Cash remains strong through to 30 June at just over AUD 47 million.

An important metric in our business overall and one that is growing is the annual recurring revenue driven from our fleet business. An increase of 23% on the previous year at AUD 17.2 million. We're quite pleased with the headline numbers for the year that ended 30 June. Let's just go into a little more of the recent history. I think this is important context also to demonstrate that we're not just talking about, you know, growth for last year. If we look at our business over the last five years, trend-wise, we're you know quite pleased that the momentum is all heading in the right direction.

I mean, clearly the aftermarket business is the big revenue generator, and I think anyone that's been in our register for several years would be well aware of the problems that we had back in 2018, 2019 with that business unit and the product. All of those issues are well behind us, and you can see that in the underlying growth rate. Demand for this product is very, very strong, and we expect it to continue to grow at this rate for some time to come. On the OEM side, this is the part of the business that's currently being affected by the very positive tailwinds driving our technology into passenger vehicles, also into aftermarket and aircraft as well, literally every transport segment.

This is really a passenger vehicle story, an OEM story. Now, when you look at that revenue, it looks pretty flat. For a business like ours, you know, that might cause you to conclude that, well, it's not really going anywhere. Well, in those numbers, there are a couple of lumpy parts in terms of last year, the year just past and the year prior, where we received some license, one-off license revenue. But the majority of the balance is, you know, what we call NRE, non-recurring engineering services. Now, NRE is the work that we do, and most of you know this very well, in the lead-up to a car getting started production. NRE is a very difficult business to be in.

In fact, if that was the business, I'm not sure anybody would be in it. It's very low margin and the name of the game here is to get to starter production. What you're gonna see in the numbers that we'll go through shortly as we get underneath these headlines is that that momentum is now very real. It's no longer a hypothesis. You can triangulate it from this year going forward and get a pretty solid view with some simple arithmetic as to where this business is going. From a profit point of view, gross profit point of view, you can see that on a normalized basis, we've been increasing year-on-year. Certainly in terms of EBIT, also there's some long-term improvement there as well.

We're really pleased that, you know, we're not just, you know, writing business here, but each of the driving metrics that are important to the sustainability of this business over a longer timeframe are actually heading in the right direction. That's because we focused on them. We're quite pleased with that picture. I'll hand over to Naomi now to take us through the financials in more detail, and then I'll come back and explain what's going on underneath.

Naomi Rule
CFO, Seeing Machines

Okay. Thanks, Paul. 2021, we could really define it as a year of performance. Now, performance in so far as growth in revenue, a reset in our cost base, which means our net margins have improved alongside the strengthening of our balance sheet. Revenue for the group, like Paul just mentioned, increased 18% to AUD 47 million from the prior year. Our consolidated performance saw a 61% increase in royalties, 48% increase in hardware, and 38% increase in software development or NRE to execute our DMS and Guardian programs. Now, increases across all of these major revenue streams is a fantastic result and further confirmation of our growth strategy and trajectory. Now, group gross margins significantly improved on the prior year because 2021, we realized lower hardware costs within aftermarket, increased OEM royalties, which attract very high margins.

Now, if we just move to our cost management strategies, I'm pleased to confirm that our cost base has reduced an average of 24% across our business. The restructure that we announced last year and cost savings initiative, out of that, we've realized a total of $10.5 million today. While Seeing Machines' net position has improved, the company is now structured for growth. This year, we capitalized $8 million worth of technology development onto our balance sheet, predominantly due to the developments in automotive safety legislation in Europe and the U.S. That capitalization means that the activities associated with the development of our intellectual property will be recognized as an intangible asset on the balance sheet.

As the IP is amortized over its useful life, these development costs will then be aligned with the revenues associated with that IP in the same financial year. If we move across to the right-hand side of the presentation, which looks at our underlying performance, as was highlighted earlier, our 2021 shows an underlying revenue improvement of 30%, which is significant in itself. This means that we've achieved a significant increase in revenues from a lower cost base, resulting in an EBIT improvement of 47% if we add back the impact of capitalization or 66% as what's shown on the presentation here. If we consider our business unit performance, Aftermarket is now profitable on a standalone basis. Aftermarket itself grew 30% on the prior year, generating $35 million of revenue.

Now, I'm just gonna step into some metrics here that I find quite interesting. 11,000 Guardian units were sold during this year, which represent a 44% increase on the prior year and has contributed 55% increase in margin-generating hardware revenue. Connections, on the other hand, also increased, but by 8,000 connection units or 36% during the year and has increased our monitoring revenue by 12%. Now, when we closed out the end of the financial year, our connected unit backlog was approximately 5,000 units that'll be connected in 2022. Now, why is this important? Our 31,000 connections, 5,000 backlog units, strong average revenue per unit or ARPU, sorry, churn of less than 1% actually results in annual recurring revenue and royalties of $17 million, which is 23% growth on the prior period.

The majority of our growth has occurred across Asia Pacific and South American regions, which is very much in line with what happened in 2020. However, the key to our strategic plan for 2022 is accelerated growth in the Northern Hemisphere, which Paul will talk to in a bit more detail shortly. If I jump to OEM. Now, remember that OEM covers our automotive and aviation businesses. It's very exciting in 2021 because 2021 saw the start of production for three OEM programs, delivering 120,000 vehicles and $2.3 million in royalties. We also increased our software development or NRE, which is a lead indicator for OEM, and that increased 44% to just under $5 million with the continuation of our OEM programs that are scheduled to hit start of production in calendar year 2022.

2021 marks the beginning of a transformation for OEM, and we're going to see a continued shift in the revenue mix from software development or NRE to higher margin, high volume royalties as OEMs start production and more vehicles hit the road. This is going to significantly increase over the next few years, where we will expect to see 30 distinct car models with Seeing Machines DMS. Now I'll just jump onto the balance sheet. Our statement of financial position, as we're all aware, is quite heavily influenced by cash and working capital movements. However, with the capitalization of IP, this is going to enhance our balance sheet strength, and demonstrate longer term value that we're generating as an organization. Overall, our working capital increased 38% to $60 million.

Inventory reduced in the final months of the year, but that's in line with increased customer demand. Actual inventory itself cost decreased in line with previously announced reduction in hardware cost of around 21%. Importantly, we don't hold any debt and the liabilities are reflective of our normal payables and entitlements. If I jump to the right-hand side of the presentation here on the statement of cash flows, our customer receipts are 11% lower for the year at AUD 38 million, and that's predominantly because our revenues, particularly in the later months of the financial year, have not converted to cash within the reporting cycle. The average monthly cash burn without grants is 18% lower than the prior year at $1.8 million and improving in line with top line revenue growth.

If we combine the investment in IP and operating activities, the average monthly cash burn does increase to an average of $2.5 million. During the financial year, the company issued 440 million new shares, receiving AUD 40 million net proceeds with two significant U.S. institutional investors. Post-balance date, in the next week actually, the company will issue 277 million new shares, raising approximately AUD 53 million for investment into our technology, sales, channel expansion and delivery capabilities, and accelerate our aftermarket growth. Again, Paul will talk about that shortly. One final comment from me to close out the financials. 2021 has been a performance year, and we are very well positioned to take advantage of the opportunities that we see ahead of us. Thanks, Paul.

Paul McGlone
CEO, Seeing Machines

Thanks, Naomi. I'll just go to full screen here. There we go. Just a bit of a skate around the whole park here for a minute. In automotive, as Naomi's alluded, the ramp-up of licensed revenue starts this year, and you'll see that in some graphs that we'll show you in a minute. We have roughly 30 models that are hitting start of production over this next sort of 18 to 24 months. I think everyone knows where we started back in 2018 with Cadillac, 7 OEM wins across the Northern Hemisphere. Really important, of course, is the regulations are unstoppable now. That's a megatrend that won't be stopped.

In fact, the requirements that are coming out of Euro NCAP, we believe, will be formalized this calendar year. We also believe that they will be a strong driver for high-performing camera-based driver monitoring systems. You know, we're very excited about that, closing out that first set of metrics that will define what good looks like. As you know, Euro NCAP will continue to develop their metrics over time. Now, of course, in the U.S., legislation is following the same path. There's no doubt, and the way I think of this is that the automotive business is our, you know, medium-term value driver. Medium to long-term value driver.

The metrics that underpin that business today, which we'll go into, are very, very significant. My view is that the upside value of the automotive business in its own right is very, very, very significant. Our fleet or aftermarket business, you know, very important. It's the primary revenue driver. It's now profitable in its own right, as Naomi's pointed out. It's been validated in many countries by insurers and regulators. We have a very strong global distribution network, and we're starting to introduce a direct sales team as well, but for very targeted enterprise-level customers, like, you know, those that we've announced recently, Shell in particular. This is a short to medium term value driver, and it's all about growing the top line.

Really, we're trying to generate as much cash as we can out of this business over the next three to four years. I'm also a big fan of the aftermarket business. It's fair to say that some investors have differing opinions on automotive or OEM versus aftermarket. One of the important things to always remember is the symbiotic relationship between aftermarket and OEM. The naturalistic data that we derive is really one of the cornerstones of our high performance, which is in software, which is one of the key drivers of our market price premium. Quite above and beyond the metrics of this business, there is underlying value in here that's very strategic.

On the mining side, we still enjoy our relationship with Caterpillar and it continues to generate solid license revenues. We do see this as a repeatable model. You know, we have alluded to that over the last year or so. I think, frankly, the area in which that model would be well suited is in aviation. It's still a nascent business. Of course, it was very heavily impacted by COVID. That's just no excuse. It's just a reality of life. It's only just now starting to find its legs. You know, we punch above our weight there. We have very large and significant customers, some we've announced.

I think as everybody knows, the last announcement with L3Harris, severely impacted by COVID, and then there was a corporate transaction that really shifted that simulation business. All kinds of things happen, but we're continuing to push forward. I think everybody would have seen that the Collins Aerospace collaboration, which they announced at the Dubai Airshow, across all of their service lines deploying our technology, is testament to our position in aviation. Now, without you know being too definitive, I mean, my objective would be to try and move towards a license style arrangement here where we can work with over the long term, a party or parties that really have the depth of expertise and capability in this area to be successful. That's the plan there.

Just a little on the regulations. I mentioned them just a second ago, so I won't sort of read it out. You know, what's going on in the U.S. now is very, very important. It means that, you know, the two major markets of the world are aligning. I think everybody would have noticed that in addition to the requirements of Euro NCAP, there's a very strong focus on intoxication in the U.S. You know, intoxication is a form of, you know, distraction.

you know, we here are very confident that, as the due dates for that specific technology gets closer and closer, that we'll be well positioned to offer technology that isn't too invasive, can be accepted by customers and manufacturers alike and continue to, you know, leverage the position that we've already set in place in the U.S. Euro NCAP this year they'll put out the specifics on what it will require to get the five stars with DMS, and those requirements will continue to advance over coming years.

This is very important because this is a very strong signal that the requirements for more features, whether it be, directly related to safety or, more on the sort of customer/convenience side, the appetite for more features will continue for a very long time to come. The reason that's important is because, you know, we have a feature-based pricing model. It's akin to a menu, and the more features that are required, well, that drives our ASP, our average selling price per unit, and that's a very important ingredient in our overall business model. I'll just turn to DMS now and just talk about, you know, where we think the market's going. In the black bar, you can see, you know, vehicle production.

As we all know, it's been severely impacted by COVID. You know, if you were in the business of selling cars, that might be a great concern. It's not a great concern for us because we are currently in such a small number of vehicles. A 10 or 20 or whatever % movement in overall production in a given year doesn't really move the needle for us in any way, shape, or form. Most of our production, you know, vehicles that start production are happening in 2021, but it really starts to pick up pace by the time we get to 2023. That's not something I'm worried about, and I don't think it's something anyone ought to be too worried about.

This picture is really a third-party analyst view of the world. This green line is the % penetration by year of DMS in light vehicles on this scale here, %. Then the average shipments worldwide between the two researchers, Semicast and ABI. This is really the starting point for us as we consider addressable market, as we consider market share. This is the anchor that we use to talk with shareholders and to gauge our own performance as we go forward. Now, as we know, all forecasts are wrong. We're using forecasts that are, you know, drawn up by third parties. We think that's useful, a useful way to go. Does the forecast mean much to us? Possibly not, and I'll come to that in a minute.

Just in terms of our OEM business revenue, AUD 12.1 million. Naomi's already mentioned this, but I'll just recap it here. 32% CAGR over five years. And that's if we take out the one-offs, the large license payments of last year, and the year before. Now, that's essentially NRE growing at 32%. Which means, you know, the logic here is that that obviously leads to cars hitting production. With 120,000+ cars fitted with our DMS technology today and around 30 over the next eighteen months, this number and this number will dramatically increase. But as pointed out, what's important here is the revenue mix change as we get more license revenues as a percentage of total automotive revenue.

That will drive up gross margin considerably, and that is a very, very important metric. In terms of the RFQ pipeline, so it currently stands at AUD 1.1 billion. Now that's, I'll go into the breakdown of that in a moment, but this is more RFQs than we've seen in our existence, all on our desk at the same time. Most of those RFQs have been quoted or are in the final stages of quoting over, you know, over coming months. This business will be awarded and it will represent the first very obvious step change in volume for our industry. The raise that we announced yesterday is specifically to enable us to win it with this level of RFQs on our desk.

The other thing is we do expect this to continue to increase. This doesn't cover but a fraction of the total market requirement according to that penetration forecast I showed you on the prior page. Before I go into the pipeline in more detail, the revenue mix stories, I just wanted to call out by splitting out our revenue in these bars. The important two colors here really are the light blue and the dark blue. The dark blue represents the license revenue. Of course, we had a significant one-off in both of these years. It was a little larger in the year prior. That mix change that has now begun and will be driven by the 30 models that are rolling out over the next, you know, 18 months plus.

You can now see that this is fact. This is no longer our hypothesis on how good the business could be one day out into the future. We've hit start of production. Production volumes will increase. Our license revenues will roughly double year-on-year from here to 2025 on the back of business that we've already won, bookings that we already have. That's a very strong metric to observe going forward. We know as these vehicles hit production, that this percentage of license revenue will increase and that will drive margin and ultimately drive cash. To the pipeline. The chart, the first chart with all the multicolors, this represents the 8 RFQs that we have. Each color represents an OEM.

The chart that we're looking at is anchored at start of production, so it doesn't include the NRE component. We're just looking at production volumes as you know the most important part of the equation. You can see that this picture here is a very steep increase. This is the AUD 1.1 billion. This black bar in here is the first tranche of an award that we alluded to yesterday, and that verbal award has been given via our new shareholder, Magna International. We're kicking off this period, this new period, this pivotal period of growth in DMS, and I frankly use DMS and OMS interchangeably here. We've verbally secured a significant piece of business.

I think that augurs well for us, you know, as we explore the balance of these RFQs, which must be awarded over the next quarter or two. Now, if we take that number and we transpose it to this picture, that aggregate $1.1 billion represents the light blue line on the bottom, and the black bar on top are the RFQs that we have visibility into that are coming next over the course of this year. Of course, we have visibility 'cause we're in constant dialogue with the OEM. Often we receive a request for information before we receive a request for quote. The point is, this is not just a one-off blip that will come and go.

This is the beginning, the first wave of the mass market adoption of DMS, and already we can see the second wave closely behind and continuing to drive up the potential volume. This is the main story. This is the reason that we looked to raise the money. The underlying issue here is that on these 8 RFQs, this might be somewhat hard to believe, but, you know, those OEMs are requiring roughly an additional 40 features. Now, all of those features were on our roadmap, I'm pleased to say, but we expected them to be required over two generations of tenders, not one. The requirement for more features has been brought forward at the same time as we're seeing this significant increase in volume.

You know, roughly a quarter of the money that we raised will go into bringing forward the feature development on the 40 features that are required, not hypothesized, but required as part of these 8 RFQs. That's a very important point for us. Now, you know, I've mentioned recently that we will also acquire other niche technologies, and I use the term acquire very broadly. I'm not saying that we're looking at buying businesses, but we are certainly actively exploring opportunities to license specific technologies that enable features that we don't consider non-core or we consider too unique and expensive for us to develop.

We propose to bring those into our feature stack through a third party, and we have a range of those either already done or underway or in our plan. You know, we're looking to enable this dramatic increase in our features that drives our feature-based pricing, that drives our ASP, that's further leveraged by the increase in volume, that is the value creator for our automotive business. We're looking to do that in a way that is, I think, quite modest, but differentiates us from what others are doing. You know, we're not spending hundreds of millions acquiring businesses that still require funding. We're focusing specifically on features that are on the statement of work from the OEM, and we make a decision as to whether it's in-house or not.

If not, we'll look to acquire that feature in a far cheaper and far more speedy fashion. That is our core strategy for this whole sort of feature competition that's going on. I'll turn to aftermarket. Again, very pleased. $35 million revenue, up 30%. The year-on-year growth is a little higher, almost 32,000 units installed. Eleven thousand units last year, up 44% from the year prior. As Naomi mentioned, a good chunk of those were sold in the last quarter, and in fact, the last two months. Our connected units didn't align with our hardware sales, but it's catching up and will catch up.

That backlog is also a very important number because we'll see a continued growth in that recurring revenue business over coming months and throughout the course of this year. Pretty pleased with that. The other thing to note here is that as we slightly change the dial in terms of the mix between distributor sales and direct sales, that will naturally lead to an increase in our average revenue per unit. Frankly, small increases in that mix change have a very important impact on our ARPU.

With the kind of growth rate that we're anticipating going forward, a combination of volume growth plus growth in our revenue per unit, we're quite confident we'll drive a better cash outcome for this business over the next two to three years. Quite pleased with fleet. In the same vein, if you just look at the revenue mix, the hardware sales, you know, we've had ups and downs in certain years, but I think if we look from this year forward, as opposed to the whole five, hardware sales are increasing. Obviously, the recurring revenue is directly linked to the hardware sale. You can see that the monitoring revenue is increasing as well.

Look, it won't be too long before we're gonna see monitoring revenues higher than hardware revenues. Similar to the revenue mix that's going on in auto, we'll then see a margin mix change, and it's the combination of this revenue mix change in fleet and this revenue mix change in auto that gives us a great deal of confidence that we're at a point of this business where the returns over the next, you know, couple of three years will be very, very strong indeed, certainly compared to the past. To summarize, over 120,000 vehicles have our tech, which is great. That number is gonna rapidly increase and will in fact, on a licensed revenue basis, roughly double year on year up to 25, as I've mentioned.

That's really important. The underlying pipeline of RFQs, actual real business that will be awarded is very, very significant. You know, frankly, one or 2, well, it's just, you know, 1 additional win actually doubles the book business of this company since our inception. You can see that the top line growth rate for licensed revenues will continue way past 25. In fact, this round of RFQs based on the start of production date will enable us very strong revenue visibility out to 2030.

I think as we come out of this full financial year, and we're now able to triangulate between the increase in license revenue based on production vehicles and the increase in ARR, and we can look at that mix change in the same way as we will in fleet. I think from the end of this financial year going forward, the outlook will become much clearer to, you know, all of the investors that aren't in our business, rather than those of you who've been in for quite some time. That's a very important timeframe for us. Of course, you know, aviation continues. We're quite pleased. We're looking for a different model there.

Overall, I'd say the journey of the last two or three years, although challenging at times in terms of the global context, but just also in terms of the complexity of our business, is really starting to show strong momentum in each of the areas that we're focused on, but also in the underlying management of the business. I hope you could see that through the way in which Naomi talked about cost management, which is just one metric of many, but it goes to show, I hope that we're not being frivolous with the money that we're raising. It's being deployed well, and this next round will be deployed to execute the maximum proportion of that $1.1 billion of RFQs that are ahead of us today.

That's the presentation.

Operator

Fantastic. Thank you, Paul. Thank you very much for a comprehensive presentation. Ladies and gentlemen, please do continue to submit your questions using the Q&A tab situated in the right-hand corner of your screen. We just want the team to take a few moments to review those investor questions submitted already. I'd like to remind you the recording of the presentation, along with a copy of the slides and the published Q&A, can be accessed via your investor dashboard on the Investor Meet Company platform. I'd also like to remind you that your feedback is important to the company, and immediately after the presentation has ended, you'd be redirected for the opportunity to provide your feedback in order that the company can better understand your views and expectations.

Paul, we've received a number of pre-submitted questions from investors, and I wanted to start off the Q&A session with those, if I may, and then we'll just go on to those questions, delivered during the meeting just by clicking on the Q&A tab, where appropriate to do so. I'd like to say thank you to all of those who have submitted questions. Just to remind you, due to the number of attendees on today's call, we won't be in a position to respond to every single question during the meeting itself. However, the company's gonna review all the questions submitted, and we'll publish responses where appropriate to do so. Back to you, please, Paul. Thank you.

Paul McGlone
CEO, Seeing Machines

Thanks. Look, I think I certainly know, and I'm sure most shareholders know that our shareholder base is a very inquisitive bunch, so it'll be no surprise to hear that I've received many questions. Some of them I've tried to categorize if they're similar, and I'm not sure if we'll get through them all, but we will answer those that we don't cover in the time available more formally. In our aftermarket, I'll start there. How long did it take to, you know, wrap up the Shell framework agreement? Well, it was actually a lot quicker than many agreements that we work on, and it was probably in the order of three to four months.

The bit that you don't see is that Shell did their own third-party research with a university on a range of competing products over more than a year. They came to their own conclusion, and when they came to that conclusion, it was, you know, fairly quick for us to close it out. That's what's happened there. Let's see, what else have we got here? Are we being used by any telematics companies in actual vehicles? Well, the first is really EROAD out of New Zealand, and they're quite an interesting company. Of course, we've had soft integration with MiX Telematics for some time, and we have co-installed vehicles in all kinds of different places with them.

We will continue down this path. Our objective for the next generation fleet product is for it to be designed to integrate with other telematics platforms. That’s a very important part of our direction going forward. There’s a lot of questions in here about, you know, targets, forecasts, whether it be for fleet or for auto or for aviation. Of course, we have forecasts and pipelines, and that’s how we run the business. We won’t be providing guidance. We’re gonna continue to work through all of the things that we have before us, that there’s just too much variability and I think it’s we’re gonna end up, you know, misleading somebody.

By the time we get to the end of this financial year, though, I expect that we'll be in a position to be more confident in the level of variation in our longer term forecasts, and we will rethink that position at that time. I have no plans to do that beforehand. In terms of connections, I mean, we've called out that the fleet business is growing at, you know, almost 40%. I expect that growth rate can be sustained over the next few years. I mean, just pull out your calculator and times one by the other and that should give you a pretty good steer on what that looks like.

There's quite a few questions in the corporate area around, you know, the valuation of our business, the fact that people think it's undervalued, you know, how should it be valued? There's a lot of questions around, you know, what's the potential for consolidation, for us to be taken over? Would we consider a takeover? At what price? And so on. Of course, look, we don't sit here thinking about at what price we would engage somebody. It's a free market and everyone in that market has the ability to knock on the door and put forward a price. And of the discussions that we've had in the past, there've been nothing formal enough or good enough to continue with those conversations.

Now, my objective and the objective of the management team and the board is to remain independent long enough to deliver what we think is our true potential. If you look at those last couple of pages around how fleet's turned around and what the OEM pipeline looks like today, and furthermore, over the course of this next year, I'm certainly of the view that there is significantly more value potential ahead of us. You know, it's not really for me to suggest what that valuation is. We're just very focused on you know, doing business, developing software, you know, driving sales and doing all of those things.

If you look at those metrics today as opposed to just one year ago, I think it jumps off the page that there is significant value here, assuming we successfully win and implement those programs. So that's what we're focused on. Rather than you know imagining what might happen with a suitor or trying to think through what we're really worth. I'm not trying to be flippant about that. I'm just saying that's not our area of focus. Let's see. Oh, there are some questions here around moving to the U.S. market. There's some questions around other verticals. Look, we are exploring options for our listing geography for sure.

I think it's only sensible that we ought to do that, particularly as you see some of the valuations that are being achieved in the U.S. Our board and management have been exploring what it would take in order to be successful, what should we look like? What ought the key metrics look like? If you look at the, I guess, those that have gone before us from AIM to Nasdaq, there's a pretty checkered history for those that have dual listed and for most. That's not to say there aren't success stories, but it is not a free kick. It's not a free valuation uplift. On a Nasdaq, say, IPO, the investor market is pretty sophisticated and onerous to cross there.

I think while we're looking at the listing geography, and we're paying attention to market dynamics, and in the back of our minds, we think that is our direction. Again, what's really important to us is that we get our house in order. We win our fair share, at least of the RFQs that are ahead of us, and to deliver a level of momentum and reliability that would give us the sense of security that changing our jurisdiction would be a success. I mean, I'm not really up for parlaying a new market risk on top of a business risk on top of a technical risk. I mean, I don't see any point in doing that. But it's in our plan. It's only sensible that we talk about it. I imagine we will end up there.

I'd like to see some additional momentum before we flip the switch on that particular transaction. Okay, a couple of questions around market share and targets and the like. There's some references to analysts that are you know put out some numbers that are different to the numbers that we talk about, and that's all good and well. You know, I hope those numbers come true, of course. I think the key difference here is that you know in taking a long-term view and talking about you know a long-term market share outcome, I think everybody knows that we've not elected to participate in China. As I sit here, I'm still very pleased with that decision. The ASPs are far lower already than what they are elsewhere.

The competition is already much more intense. Despite the fact that they make a lot of cars from a business point of view, I'm more interested in the other 70% with an ASP that's 2x. That will remain our focus. On that basis, we think a 30% share is reasonable. Could it be more? Well, yes, it could. The plans that we have on features, bringing features forward, bringing in new tech to expand our moat, continuing with our differentiation strategy around system, not just software. I think all of those things, you know, play into the possibility of us increasing share. That's yeah. You know, we're not really chasing a share number. We're chasing the maximum position we can get. Yeah. Okay.

I've talked about the acquisition technology. There's the extra volume of sales and income. I think I've addressed that in some of the charts for auto. There's some questions around DMS and OMS. Does one displace the other? No, it doesn't. I'm actually seeing them both as a linear expansion of you know in-cabin sensing, if you will, whether it covers the driver, the two front seats or all seats. I'm not concerned at all that I'm thinking about that being a new technology that displaces DMS. Quite the contrary. I think DMS is the harder technology based on the requirements. If you're gonna be an OMS, I think having a strong position in DMS is mandatory.

That's certainly our view. There's some questions around Qualcomm. Of course, they did a big Investor Day a week or two ago. Look, we continue to work with Qualcomm, and we're doing things together. They'll be, you know, communicated as and when they're ready. It's a big machine doing big things in a big way, and we have a very strong relationship. I'm not really in a position to say, you know, from that relationship, you know, this level of revenue will be derived. I mean, that's kind of not where we are yet, but it's very strong. Okay, just looking forward here. Yeah, guidance, I've covered that already.

There's quite a few questions about, you know, essentially a forecast, whether it be revenue, you know, when can we hit a certain number. I've given the numbers in terms of the pipeline. I've given the growth rate of fleet. I think, you know, shareholders can triangulate against that pretty readily. Certainly I expect the covering analysts to do so. You know, for me to break that down and make specific forecasts at this point in time is just sort of not on our plan. We'll revisit that at the end of the year. I'll switch now to some of the online questions. Tell me more about Shell and Collins.

Well, Collins have after several years of working with us chosen us as the eye tracking technology that they'll deploy across their whole service line for their new strategy, which is their aviation mobility strategy. This is a very significant relationship. Like others in aviation, where I normally get criticism is, you know, what's the dollars? I don't know. Hopefully we will find out. You have to start with these big companies that are in a business with a 30-year product life. It's very difficult to jump straight to that question. Shell, on the other hand, you know, they've got 15 or 20,000 trucks. You know, we expect our technology to be required not just in their trucks but in their suppliers' trucks.

We're seeing demand roll in on the back of that agreement already. I'm highly hopeful on Shell. There's some questions around the features. Look, there's a long list. Driver identification, smoking identification, phone use identification. There are also additional performance requirements on features that we already have. The list goes on and on. Gender, weight, body mass, facial expression, et cetera, et cetera. Okay, now there's a question about truck OEMs. When are we gonna see our product? Well, that's just starting to happen actually. I imagine, you know, it's gonna take a while as these things do, but it is in fact a new conversation that we're engaging in right now.

Look, we've got two minutes to go. Someone's asked me whether we'll be celebrating with sushi or German beer on the contract that we just talked about, which is pretty cheeky. Because we're Australian, I suppose it'll be beer and a meat pie, perhaps. I'm not sure if that helps you, James, but that's about as much as I can say about it.

Operator

Paul, I know we're just coming up to time. I think you've covered off as many questions as you can in the allotted time slot. Of course, the company will be able to review all questions submitted today, and we'll get those responses published back out on the platform. Paul, just before we redirect the attendees to give you some feedback, if I could just ask you for a closing snapshot to conclude, and we redirect investors for you. Paul, if we could just ask for a closing snapshot before we redirect the attendees, that'd be great. Just a little wrap up.

Paul McGlone
CEO, Seeing Machines

Well, look, we're really pleased with last year. It seems a long time ago. Momentum this year is building very strongly. Hopefully, you can all see by what we presented tonight or today that the key metrics that drive value are now evident. That's certainly how I see them, and that's, I guess, the key message that I'd like to leave with you today.

Operator

That's fantastic. Paul McGlone, Naomi Rule, Kate Hill, thank you very much indeed for updating investors today. Could I please ask investors not to close this session? You should be automatically redirected for the opportunity to provide your feedback in order that the management team can better understand your views and expectations. This will only take a few moments to do and is greatly valued by the company. On behalf of the management team of Seeing Machines Limited, we'd like to thank you for attending today's presentation. That now concludes today's session. Thank you and good morning.

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