Citi’s 16th Annual BioPharma Virtual Conference

Sep 9, 2021

Good afternoon, everyone. Sorry for the slight delay technical difficulties. Ba, myself and the team were in separate rooms. But we're here now day 2 of Citi's Biopharma Conference. It's Pippa Doll here. And on behalf of the team, I'm delighted to introduce Bart Filius, President and COO of Galapagos along with the IR team. Bart's going to make some introductory remarks before we head into Q and A. As I always say, I'm here to moderate, not to monopolize. So you do have the function on screen to submit your questions. They'll be emailed through to me or you can just email me direct. I'll make sure anything that comes through gets put to Bart and the team. So without further ado, Bart, over to you. Yes. Hi, Peter, and thanks for having me in the conference. Pleasure as always 2, to speak with you and the rest of the audience. Indeed, I thought it would be good to just take you through a couple of slides, Roughly 10 or so to give you the highlights of the Galapagos story as it stands today. And then happy to spend the rest of After 45 minutes that we have together to do Q and A, so Sandler from our IR team is going to switch slides. Maybe, Sander, you can start with the first one. Yes. So highlights, we think current valuation The company is actually an opportunity for investors. The key elements of the investment case are a very, very strong balance sheet, a €5,000,000,000 Cash balance at the end of June and a very strong collaboration with Gilead's that can benefit From, let's say, a scientific collaboration, but also it needs an economical collaboration. So, Giesselica As a second pillar under the company is the brand name of our product filgotinib, which is now in the market in Europe. And I'll say a few words in a second about where we're doing and how we're doing with our commercial efforts there. And then we have a deep pipeline in inflammation and fibrosis with both A very attractive preclinical, but also some interesting clinical assets to look to. And I'll say a few words later down The presentation about what we think we can expect in the months years to come in terms of clinical evolution there. And lastly, we are interested, as we have announced previously, to use at least a portion of our cash balance for business developments to get our pipeline, let's say, rebuilt after what has been a pretty difficult 12 months for the company and the investors in our company with a couple of scientific setbacks that we had to absorb, but BD can be an angle to support rebuilding that. Currently, we're trading at levels that are below our cash balance of €5,000,000,000 Hence, we think that with the assets that we have in place, It actually is a good investment case. We have done on the next slide a strategic review of the company together with our Board. And we have highlighted what we would call the 4 strategic imperatives for the company. First of all, we want to make sure we get our organic R and D back on track. We have refocused our pipeline. We've taken a couple of products out of our pipeline and wanted to be sure that those products that are in there. There are projects that are in there remain the core interest for the company to move ahead. And we've also taken a very serious look That's what we would call lessons learned from the clinical setbacks that we've had over the last 12 months to ensure that we can use those lessons Going forward in our R and D work as it's going on in the company organically. Then the second key strategic imperative is to make Gisilica a success, and we're doing that Exactly in Europe. And we're well on track in terms of reimbursement progress in the various countries in Europe. I'll see if you're worried about that in a second. And then BD, scouting for opportunities. I think there's 2 angles that we're after. One angle is to leverage our commercial infrastructure in Europe, seeing if there are, For example, U. S. Biotech companies that do not have such infrastructure and then actually would be interested to partner up with Galapagos that can actually provide for that infrastructure in all of the different countries. And I think for the right opportunity and the right therapy area and the right size, That could be actually an interesting win win between us and the 3rd party. And the second element that we're looking at in terms of BD is to Fill what we call fill the gap in our pipeline. We've lost an important Phase 2 and an important Phase 3 program in the last 12 months. And that's what we're trying to recuperate from. And we think that our cash balance is an excellent opportunity to scout for replenishment of our late stage pipeline to ensure that it doesn't take, let's say, the 3 to 5 years that it would otherwise take with organic R and D Developments to get back on our feet. And then lastly, what's really important is also financial discipline to make sure that we spent the money on the right projects, on the right efforts. And we are executing on a major savings program that we have started following the Zilli setback this year, which is generating about €150,000,000 of annual savings, Half of which should be realized still this year and half next year. And that reflects roughly 25% of our intended cash burn for the year. And then lastly, we are also and it's been announced last week looking for A new Chief Executive Officer and a new Chief Scientific Officer for different reasons. The departure of both Pietrik Flink, our CSO and Oliver Stolt, our Founder and CEO, have been announced over the last months. And we are looking or the Board, I should Looking for suitable external candidates to strengthen the management team. Then a few words maybe on the financials on the blue element there. The cash burn is Expected to peak this year at probably €600,000,000 And this slide is trying to give a bit of perspective as to what Actually is the underlying, let's say, run rate of cash burn at the company. First, if you look at the CHF600 1,000,000 that we are this year spending, It's roughly 70% focusing on what we would call R and D and roughly 30% focusing on Giselleica. And let's not forget, Gjai Saleka is not just about the commercial efforts in the marketplace, but it's really also about finishing and continuing some of our long term extension studies and finishing our Crohn's Phase 3 program. So there's an important Investments in the next couple of years still to have for GIS Helica to finalize the development path. Then going forward, the R and D burn, as I announced just now, we are pushing the expense down there. And we actually think that the, let's say, approximately €400,000,000 or €425,000,000 that we would be spending on R and D there This year, it will be pushed down already next year to roughly the €350,000,000 which is, if all things are equal, would be our run rate of underlying R and D expenses. The Giastatica burn by itself will go down 1st next year. It's not going to go down that much for the simple reason that our cost share next year is With Gilead, which is a fifty-fifty cost year in 2021, will go away. That's compensated by the sales that is also 100% in our pockets. But then we should be able to get to a breakeven territory in the course of 2024. Hence, that will bring our cash burn for dry silica down to 0 by the time we reach that stage in the decades. And then actually, if you look at the outer years of the decades, at peak, we think Geiselica can be a 500,000,000 Euro products. And then the contribution from that product, even taking into account fully loaded G and A, etcetera, could be in the vicinity of our V200. So as a result, our actual underlying cash burn will then go down quite significantly in the years beyond 2024. So just to highlight, because it's a point of attention obviously for investors, our cash value being an important Pillar under the value of the company that we are going to be extremely careful and disciplined in terms of how we spend our money over the next Couple of years. Then what is to be expected in terms of outlook for the next years? 20 22 will be The GYSLICA franchise buildup and the rebuild of the pipeline. We'll have data on the MANTA study. We'll have hopefully the launches of Jazz Helica in Europe and Japan in ulcerative colitis. And we anticipate CHMP opinion shortly On that filing, we will also have top line data from our Programme 555 in OA, Yes, Phase 1b in patients that will have top line data from a Phase 1 in healthy volunteers with our SYK2-three inhibitor. And we should be able to start next year, 2 Phase 2 programs, 1 with a TYK2 inhibitor, 3,667 and 1 with 4,716, Akytinase, which we're going to progress in idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis. And then in 'twenty three, we will be able to see some first data sets coming out of some of the ongoing trials. We have then still the filgotinib or gysilica data on Crohn's disease to come. We have a program in kidney, 2,737, and we should see Phase 2 data by then. The TIG2 data should be generating Top line results as well in 2023. And hopefully, we'll be able to start a new Phase 2 program with our Toledo compound or new Toledo compound 2, 3. So a lot going on in the next 24 months in those 2 years. And A quick word maybe on commercial. As I promised, how are we doing? So the market launch is on targets and that is really reflected, 1st of all, in The level of reimbursement that we're getting, as you know, in Europe, you really go country by country to get reimbursement. And that's very specific also in terms of Exact population, exact price, exact reimbursement scheme by country, and we're making good progress to have All of the key countries reimbursed by the end of the year, maybe even by the end of this quarter. So market launch on targets. It's a bit too early to say A lot about the actual market performance. The only country where we are in the market for a little bit longer than 1 or 2 months is Germany, but there we are in line with our own internal budgets. So we are happy with what we have seen so far. We're newly recruited with our Phase 3 program in Crohn's disease, which is an important extra indication to the molecule. And we are filed with the EMA for ulcerative colitis. We're also filed for ulcerative colitis in Japan, by the way, but that's marketed by Eisai, who has partnered up Gilead for Japan. And the key message that we're putting out there is that we are a preferential JAK1 inhibitor. That's also reflected in the label with that same wording. And that resonates well with health care professionals. We see that we have a differentiated option there for prescribers. And all in all, we think this could be a profitable business case as I explained before for Galapagos. Then moving on to research and development. Our pipeline, I've said a few words already on the different data points and readouts that we should be expecting over the next 24 months. But here in the slide with arrows, You see the overview. So indeed, our JAK1 inhibitors, filgotinib and 555 are there. Our TYK2 inhibitor going into Phase 2 Here, then we have 3 compounds or actually it's 4 compounds, I should say, but it's likely going to be 3 because we're going to choose 1 of the 2 Candidates for SiK2-three inhibition to go into Phase 1 next year. We have also a local application JAK1TYK2, which goes under the code name of 3,121, that's in IBD. Then in IPF, we have 3 programs as well, the most advanced being the kitinase program And then lastly, 1 kidney program in polycystic kidney disease 2,737, which is currently in Phase 2, which would show data in 2020 3. Maybe a quick deep dive on first the TYK2 and then on the SiK inhibitor. We think this can be an extremely interesting new class of oral medication. We know BMS is currently undergoing regulatory review, at least in the U. S. With their TYK2 inhibitor. We think that actually Our KAK2 inhibitor, which is really selective for that member of the family, has a good deal of promise there to be competitive. We don't know yet exactly where and how and how it's going to be differentiated. That's going to be the key focus of Phase 2 study that we intend to start next year. But on the next slide, some outcomes that we've seen before is a positive top line data in the Phase Ib in patients, where we've seen That 4 out of 10 patients on the high dose reached a passing 15 response as opposed to 1 out of 10 On placebo now, admittedly, those are small numbers. But still, they give promise. And we think it's really worthwhile to Test this further in psoriasis in the Phase IIb, but we'll also start a Phase II study, smaller Phase II study in ulcerative colitis in the course of next year. So that's an important effort for us in that class. And then lastly, maybe a quick word on Toledo. Toledo is a code name for a series of compounds that are SiK inhibitors. And we've seen in the discovery work, we've seen very interesting animal results, Animal data, where we see the dual mode of action from the SI case in terms of Working towards regulatory cytokines as well as to the pro inflammatory cytokines. And that has led us to a Phase 2 program with our initial compound 3,970. I think I have a slide on that one as well, where the top line results were encouraging In psoriasis, they were a bit mixed in ulcerative colitis, some signals of activity, but not yet at the level that we would like to see. And they were negative in RA. We have come to the conclusion that we like still very much Targets and the biology that we're after here, but that we need a compound with higher target engagements to test Further in the clinic to evaluate whether we can actually get a compound that can reach the finish line or can reach later stages of development. So that brings me to my concluding slides. Outlook for 2021, these are the outcomes that we promised. We've seen the data in 3,667 and the SiK2-three inhibitor. We're still anticipating and it's quite around CHMP opinion on GI Felica and then hopefully also the approval by the European Commission to extend this into this indication into ulcerative colitis. And then in terms of trial progress, we anticipate to announce shortly the full recruitment of our Crohn's disease study As well as the 2,737 kidney study. Let me stop there. And Peter, back to you for perhaps moderating Thanks, Bart. Pretty comprehensive. And look, I appreciate you being very candid given obviously the highs and lows of the last 12 to 18 months. Look, I think let's start with sort of the big picture questions. I think they're the most important. I realize the CEO announcement was only made literally 5 minutes ago. But can we just push you a little bit in terms of what is the sort of What is the type of person that the Board is seeking to hire? And is this exclusively external? Or could this be a could the candidates involved be internal and external. I'll start there. Yes. No, happy to say a few words even though I should also say that this is The prerogative of the Board to make those choices clearly, and this is handled by our Chairman with the rest of the Board members very closely involved. I think the retirement of all in all is not necessarily a major surprise. I think people in both internally and externally We're expecting this to come after 20 years of at the helm of the company, having founded the company and brought it to the successes that we have today, So that he moves out for a new CEO, I think, is in line with expectations. The Board felt it was important to announce that Before actually going active on a search for a new CEO, As far as I understand, they're going for an external candidate. And given the, Let's say, the rebuilds that is required on the R and D front, this is likely to be a candidate with a scientific profile, at least in terms of backgrounds. And as you said, again, being candid, there's €5,000,000,000 of cash on the balance sheet. The market cap of Glapacos is significantly below that. That's either a massive opportunity all as a signal for how the market perceives the quality of the portfolio right now. Now you've made it very clear that from a capital allocation perspective, you want to put some of that cash to work because you can't wait organically for the R and D sort of engine to be turned around. However, is it also fair to say that nothing will happen until a new person arrives? Or is that incorrect? I mean, are you actively involved at the moment in BD. Yes. I wouldn't go too far to say that nothing will happen until a new person arrives. I don't think That's necessary. And the executive team is also mandated by the Board to continue with business development. But it needs to be obviously business development That's in line with the strategy of the company. You'll not see us making we wouldn't do that anyway. But As an example, you don't see us make a multimillion dollar acquisition in an Alzheimer space, for example. If we'd want to go there, that's probably a little bit more of a big strategic shift for us. But as long as it's within the strategy of the company in inflammation And if it's not, let's say, betting the bank, I think we're definitely mandated to move ahead and we'll bring forward proposals to our boards and they will look at them and see if they make business sense and we can work on that. And then just two clarification points, again, big picture. So you got the lockout with Gilead until 2024, that's a given. What about when it comes to the assets, the SiC and TiC2 that you're developing, do they have to be opted in by Gilead? Is that part of the deal? Would they need to sort of green light it and partner with you? And if they didn't, would you be prepared to sort of go it alone as it relates to mid- to late stage development? And I'll pause there and ask my second question after you've answered that one. Yes. So the current structure of the deal with Gilead is quite straightforward. Any compound that we bring to the end of Phase 2b. They have a right to opt in. If they do not opt in, we have the right to continue with the compound, but then obviously we will be bearing 100% of the cost as well. If they would opt in, it's a cost share from thereon, fifty-fifty between the two companies. And then they have the rights to exploit the compound in outside Europe, and we have the right for Europe. They pay us royalties as well and Europe is unencumbered hours. So that's the basic structure. And by the way, they pay us a milestone for the opt in, dollars 150,000,000 Dollars for any opt in that they would take. Indeed, if they would choose not to opt in, we could move ahead if we believe that it's a viable path. And but then we bear the cost ourselves as well. Very clear. And then just lastly, I mean, you've had to obviously do a cost savings program. But at the same time, you're trying to maintain a discovery engine and commercialize just like I said, How have you managed that balance and not just completely disrupt the company? So can you just talk a little bit about that? Yes, that's a great question. And indeed, we need careful that we balance that properly. And I would indeed say that those areas in the company that have been most affected by the cost savings program are the development organization and the support organization. And the commercial organization is obviously trying to do as efficiently as possible the launch of the product, but we do want to give them the right chance and the right opportunity to actually make a success out of it. So we do need to invest to make that happen. And on the other hand, in the value chain in discovery, we think it's also extremely important that we continue to invest in our early stage The research work, that's where it all begins. That's where how we can differentiate ourselves from the competition. So that's also not the area of focus in terms of Cost saving, but it's more on the project side in development and in all the supporting functions as well. Got it. Now in the world of JAKKS, I mean, look, we've seen a couple of things happen in the last few weeks. The U. S, I mean, I don't think anyone's prize, but they went ahead and slapped on the black box warnings for the JAKs. But we've also seen in Europe 2 JAKs approved for atopic dermatitis. So I was just wondering, I suppose a 2 part question. 1, when you think about developing your TIC 2. There is a sort of concern that the FDA might do the same with the TIC 2 class going forward. But also with your efforts potentially still to get filgotinib approved in the U. S, just how you're thinking about the risks or not that these regulatory changes are bringing to the Silgo program. Yes. That's so maybe take the last point first. I think in all fairness, and Gilead has been communicating about that as well in their quarterlies and in different conferences. I think the base case is that Kyasylica will not be marketed by Gilead in the U. S. I think it's as pain as that as painful as it is For us as a company, because we believe we have an excellent drug that is really a solution for patients, the regulatory environment is clearly not working in our favor. The one caveat or the one question mark that we have and that Clear has is what are the data from the Crohn's trial going to show us in about a year and a half from now. Clearly, if there is A major breakthrough in terms of outcomes there that would probably allow for a revisit of that decision. But I do not anticipate that Gilead will, in the short run, make any efforts to get forgotten into the U. S. Markets. On your second question, what is your regulatory environment applying to the TIG2? We will know the answer, I think, somewhere in the next, let's say, 6 months or so from the evaluation by the FDA of The BMS program, that should help us understand how they look at the TIG2 in relation to the other JAKs. We think that both our compound and by the way also the BMS compound are highly selective for TIG2 and should avoid Some of the liabilities on some of the JAKs. So I would find it reasonable if it would not affect That label in the same manner as they've treated the JAKs in RA. But I obviously cannot speak to how the regulators look at that, We've not always been as, let's say, precise in their application between, let's say, different JAKs and the TIC. So let's see, and we'll take it when it comes. That's fair. And then just look, I have to ask, I mean, you said yourself, I mean, Bristol have already got a full Phase 3 data package filed for TIC 2. It's way too early for me to start asking you about differentiation because you haven't got the data yet to make that to answer that. But what you also do bringing a TIK2 in OA osteoarthritis. So I'm just trying to work out what is the mindset here? Are you just thinking that the mechanism is attractive, hoping to get a partner? Or do you I just want to understand why you're sort of prosecuting those assets given the sort of current environment, both in terms of the competitive landscape and potentially how the regulatory landscape might change. Yes. So just as a clarification point, we are evaluating it not in osteoarthritis but in psoriasis And most likely in UC. So and the pruritus choice is really a result of the fact that we actually can compare ourselves Very well with BMS because we know the data for the BMS compound in that space. So that's really a benchmarking study, Like in Phase 2, that will tell us whether or not we are differentiated. Ultimately, we need to be and there needs to be A differentiation element there, be it on safety, be it on efficacy, to progress with the compound. But Today, we need to really first do the work and analyze the data. We really like the target as such. We think it is a good class to go after, which can really help solving some unmet needs. And it can be an oral therapeutic as well. So We like the class. We think it has potential, but we'll need to see how we stack up against the competition at the end of Phase 2 before we are able to conclude on how we bring that forward. Apologies, but I thought I was trying to sort of throw 2 assets in for one question. Correct me if I'm wrong, the asset that you are bringing into OA, I think it's GLPG555, that is also a JAK1 or not? That isn't JAK1. It's an intra articular JAK1. So that's a bit of a special case, much smaller markets. Let's see what the data says from that very small trial that we're running there now. But that's your point taken with regard to the JAK class with regard to that compound. Sorry, I was throwing the jacks and the ticks into 1 bucket. Okay, clear. And then just look, just to push you, you do have a lot of cash on the balance sheet. If you do show proof of concept and Gilead doesn't want to partner in, what is the mindset of Galapagos right now? Would you do you have to have a partner to sort of spread the risk? Or is there a mindset where you would, given you have the resources, be prepared to go into Phase 3 on your own? Yes, I think the fact that you have the resources should not be the reason to progress something on your own. I think Which doesn't mean the other way around that you shouldn't progress something on your own, but it should not be driven by the fact that we can afford it. I think we need to be very careful, evaluates the data very careful, understands also the reasons why our partner would not opt in Very thoroughly. And if they would not opt in, I think we need to be totally honest with ourselves and transparent and see, okay, is this a viable option for us as a company. And that takes then also into account that we do not have a U. S. Infrastructure And we do not intend at this stage to build 1 either. So I frankly don't see us Very quickly going into the very competitive U. S. Markets in a which you could almost call a mass market specialty products with Galapagos name alone. So then probably it makes more sense to look for other partners as a solution. But then again, it's way too early to make that call. Let's first have the data Out of the Phase 2 study, 2023, and then we'll talk with our partner. I know for a fact that at least the T2 is a target that Gilead is interested in, is a market that Gilead is interested in. Whether ultimately it's going to be our compound good enough for them to make the investments, We'll see that when we see the data. Do those comments apply to I know they clearly cover psoriasis and so forth. But What about in krones? If Philgo hits in krones, but Gilead doesn't want to pursue, is that something that you would is that still seen as a mass market very competitive market? Or is that something that might interest you or you would go for. Yes. It's a bit it's a slightly more complex contractual situation, Peter, because filgotinib is De Facto opted in. That was the original 2016 agreement that we had with Gilead. Whereas on the day 2 that we were just It's a situation where they still would need to opt in or not. And here in the TIG2, the case is very clear that if they don't opt in, we are in a position to progress. On the Crohn's indication, it's going to be more a judgmental question on the Gilead side, whether they think there's a commercially viable opportunity here for the U. S. And if they believe there is, they will launch. If they do not believe there is, they will not launch in the U. S. Either. But there's no immediate, let's say, opportunity for us then to do it on our own. And then just on that U. S. Crohn's trial that's being run, is there anything you can say in terms of timelines, how it's recruiting? Just any flavor you can give on the status of that study? Yes. Recruitment is almost done. Literally in the next A couple of weeks or maybe months, we should be able to conclude recruitment for that study. It's called diversity. And then it's a study with an induction period of 10 weeks and a total duration of, I think, it's 56 weeks, if I'm precise. So let's say roughly a year. That should give our last patient last visit somewhere in the Q4 of 2022 And then top line data probably in the first half of twenty twenty three. Okay. Can we come back to Giselleca in Europe? I mean, you've laid out your expectations for breakeven and peak sales. Just what sort of I know you said you don't much you can say on market share performance, but how has the product done in Germany from the data that you're seeing? And if we take a sort of I'm not asking for a blow by blow, but By the end of this year or by the middle of next year, can you give a sense as to how many countries you'll be launched properly and reimbursed in? Just some sort of sense as to that progression on just Helica in Europe. Yes. I think we should again, taking the last question first, we should be launched in all the key countries in Western Europe by the end of this year. So currently Germany, France are in the market. UK is in the market. Italy has just been announced reimbursed and will be in the market next month. The same will apply most likely to Spain, then the smaller countries to the Nordics, we're there. In the Benelux countries, we are there. So In the vast majority of the Western European markets, we will be in the markets by the end of the year. So then we'll be able start tracking seriously how the performance of the drug is doing in all of those countries. And then hopefully, we'll be also able to add a second indication If we get a positive decision by the European Commission later this year as well, and then the whole, let's say, reimbursement track will be starts First again, probably Germany and the U. K, generally the early launch countries also for new indications. And then during 2022, we'll be able to add France and Spain and Italy and so on. So these 2 years, 2021 2022, the real key focal point for us as a company is to make sure we get Reimbursed that we get access to the patient population. And in the meantime, we want to track obviously how we're doing with actual in markets performance. So on your first question, how are we doing in Germany? So as of June, we were in line with our own internal Those are relatively small numbers. As you know, a pickup of a drug in the early months is it always takes a bit of time to get to a proper run rate, But that's in line with our own expectations. At our Q2 call, we've highlighted, I think, 2 market figures. 1 is the Markets for the JAKs in Germany is progressing really nicely. I think we are talking about 15% or 16% by the end of June of this year out of the total advanced therapy market in RA. So, the class itself is having good traction. And we've also highlighted our share of what's the dynamic market in RA, which at the end of June was up 4%. So that means that for those patients that are either switching from existing therapies or naive Two advanced therapies coming off, for example, methotrexate. We're able to capture 4% out of the market and that's a market that And also the biologics. So and that's a decent place to be. As an overall perspective, We've indicated that at the peak, we want to be in the RA markets, let's say, somewhere around the 10% market share. So that means that you need to have a good number of years of that level of market share in the dynamic market first to get to that level, but we are we're okay with what we've seen so far. Just to push for you, have you got any other data points that you've seen of late beyond what you cited in Q2 and the June data that you just mentioned? And now we'll leave it at that for the time being. What I did say there was that once we do the Q3 results, we'll give a bit more perspective As well, this is going to be late October, early November. One of the caveats here, it's a bit technical, but We're still in transition from Gilead to Galapagos for the marketing authorization as well as the sales distribution. Actually, our own Galapagos sales in Germany is only starting as of Q3. So all the sales that was done very well in the year was still done at side of Gilead. But what I'm going to be trying to do when we present our Q3 numbers is to give a bit of market perspective to The Streets as to how combined between the two companies we are executing on our launch efforts. So when will we actually see a clean to select a number reported by Galapagos. Is that not until Q4 or will the Q3 number be a clean number? Yes, it will never be clean because for example the UK is not yet fully booked by us and the Nordics are not yet fully booked by us. So clean. It will only be in full as of the end of this year and going forward. But obviously, we can give some insights and some perspective how we're doing in the marketplace so that you have a bit of chance to evaluate this more closely. And just wrapping up, because I see we're fast running out of time. Just when you think about I mean, obviously, this is the asset that you need to make work from an NPV perspective. Where are you currently on the IP and potentially seeking SBC or PTE? How do you think about the IP situation for Giselekert. Yes. That's the reason why we think it's actually a very attractive opportunity for us as a company, financially attractive. We have IP, including the extensions until 2,034. So if we are able to get to breakeven in 2024, That gives us a good 10 years of life in positive cash flow territory. So that's why we think actually It's attractive to keep on pushing JOSE Healthcare. So also the key now is to get people to believe more in the pipeline. So you helpfully gave a summary of the next data points. But in terms of the nearest couple, I mean, when are we next going to get data on the TYK2 or the Toledo program. Are we talking back end of next year or as soon as first half. Can you just remind us sort of when we those sort of data points when they come to sort of assess the pipeline and potentially drive a little bit more investor confidence in the pipeline? Yes. No, I think that's why we are starting to give a little bit more insight into what 2022 and 2023 are actually going to look like. But it's fair to say that the TYK2 and the TORBITDA program will not give data yet in 'twenty two. That will be in 'twenty three, together with the kidney program that should also be in the course of 'twenty three. So 'twenty three is going to be a bigger year from a Data point of view, but there are some interesting readouts to come as well in 2022. And then obviously, there is more work around Gieselica, which is Got to be front and center I think of on the communication front in 2022. You're on mute now, Peter. Yes, I was saying the year of Giselle Eker and obviously knowing the sort of the new strategic director and CEO. Well, listen, I wish you all the best with the launch of Giselleca and look forward to charting your progress going forward. So On behalf of the team, once again, thanks for you participating at the conference this year. Thanks, Peter, and thanks for having us at the conference. Thanks,