Earnings Call: Q2 2014

Jul 31, 2014

Good morning, everybody. Welcome to the Rantes headquarters. I would like to welcome all the people here in the room, analysts, investors, our Board members over here. And I will also do a special welcome for the people on the phone, investors and analysts that couldn't make it over here. Welcome to you guys. And I have a special request for the people from the press that are here. If want you to have an interview with one of our Board members, please refer to Machtod Mierens over there after this call. The agenda for today is, as usual, first, our CEO, Chuck van der Grub, will start with an operational update followed by Robert Jaffe de Kraut, who will touch upon the financial performance and then we go to the outlook and Q and A. With that, I hand over to Jacques for the introduction. Thanks, Jacques. New IR guy, shorter introduction, just finishing my coffee. But anyway, good morning, Dear analysts, dear investors, people on the phone, but also our colleagues. I was told there's no video streaming, which is not necessarily a big thing. You get the slides and you get the voice, which is good enough, I think. Second quarter results. Yes, we did a lot. You'll see in the presentation that there are quite some green shoots in terms of growth. I want to mention our U. S. Staffing business, really well run business, it's really picking up throughout the quarter and even into the third quarter. Our Belgium business, which we're going to touch later upon, which is actually growing a bit faster than mentioned in the press release. And of course, Belgium as a bellwether for Europe is good. And also our Dutch business, very important for the company and also picking up through the quarter. And our Chinese business, we now have 300 people in perm professionals in China, which is our single biggest business already, growing at 77%, a really impressive performance. Also very happy with the pickup of what we call activity based field steering. We're a large company. We introduced this within the company in mid March. And if we look at, I'm going to talk about it later, the pickup in the company of this concept, we're really impressed with our people. Of course, it's not good news everywhere. Our French business, the French economy as such, of course, is still struggling. And our German business looks like economy is taking a bit of a pause there and growth is easy. Perm placement, also a green shoot. We grew 13% globally in perm placement. And this also in markets where the economy is not yet very hot, such as France, again, where we grow in permanent placement. So very happy with that result. And what you will also see in the presentation is the balancing act, at least as far as we're concerned, between growth and profitable growth. Because yes, we can grow faster, but not always, we like the growth. And you will see this in quite a few markets that we made some deliberate choices here. So again, accelerating growth, which is good, 3.5% in Q1, 4.5% in the second quarter. Very important to mention, I think, the gross profit growth. In more and more countries, yes, we still talk about employees working, but we also talk about gross profit growth. Certainly in the Anglo Saxon environments, The UK, The U. S, also Australia. I mentioned our Chinese business, our perm business. So gross profit and the growth there is very important. And then you see, like promised, a conversion rate of 70%. We were quite surprised by the fact that this was picked up as sort of an absolute target, where our conversion rate is not something we manage as a goal in itself. For us, this was an indicator of where we were as a company, growth in Europe, high conversion rate, but already for a long time growth in America, slightly lower growth rate. That's sort of a balancing act, but 70% is 70% and you see the EBITA margin. The lines, pretty clear. Most of them are going upwards. Rest of the world, of course, is a mixed bag. I'll comment on that one a bit later. Europe going up nicely, and you see the pickup in North America, which we like. And of course, as you know, this is our biggest business. Back to the slides we showed you in earlier quarters as the important slides on our priorities. And the slides that are and should be above the bed of all our colleagues worldwide. On the right hand side, see total talent architecture. What was that again? Our change in approach towards large clients. We don't go to large clients anymore. This This is a bit black and white, of course, like we're unstuck, we're the second in the world, we're nice, we're everywhere, why don't you do business with us? We now go to the client and we say, we know you, we know your company, we know your sector and we can help you to become a better company with a better output of your people, with more efficient HR processes. We've compared you against the benchmark. We can show you where we did this and it's interesting for you to talk further on the topic. This business fuels our MSP and our RPO business and this works. So we have 30%, three-zero percent more spend on the management globally than we had last year. And in The U. S, we have more than 40% more spend on the management. So very happy with that development. You also see the European market maturing very quickly in the field of MSP certainly. And then again, our in house business, again, a strong concept, still growing 15% globally. So very happy with that performance. And then on the left hand side, where we put most of our efforts in currently, and that is increasing the amount of activities in our markets where markets are growing to touch more clients either by phone, either by a physical visit, also to send out more candidates on perm jobs. That has definitely worked and that's picking up. But it has a time lag. So in all the interviews we had, the road shows we had, I talked about the fact that this normally takes two to three quarters to really get you going in a high speed. But in some markets we see that this is picking up a bit quicker. A bit more on this one. I mentioned the fact of the pickup of this system of activity based fuel steering in our world, and it definitely is picking up. We have some 30% more activities in the market compared to last year. So if you make a weighted average on calls, on visits and on what we call candidate sendouts, candidate sendouts is the key operational indicator for your growth in perm. That has increased with 30%, three-zero percent. And some companies, certainly the Dutch company, but also the German company, have higher increases than that. Very happy with that. But of course, it's not like from day one to day two that this gives you results. But still, there is a direct link in our company between the ability to do this and the results. Again, our Spanish business doing really well, became market leader, grows in perm, it works. Our U. S. Staffing business, our Japanese business, Tempathy, Stromer is in the room, Tempathy, my second brand in The Netherlands, really strong on the pickup of activity based fuel steering and we see the performance. So countries, North America, back to growth in Q2, U. S. Staffing and Inhouse, GP gross profit, a growth of 10% and an improving trend throughout the quarter and also in this quarter of growth. And perm, what can I say, plus 33%, and this was not a small business to begin with? And again, in house, as usual suspect, also growing in The U. S. U. S. When we call in house, we also talk about the Transport Corporate Services, which is the in house flavor for head offices. So this is we're still on-site, but we do all profiles, we do all perm. Very profitable part of in house and also growing double digit. U. S. Profs, a mixed portfolio, very happy with the return in IT. IT, our biggest business, around US1 billion growth, over 3% in June, so on a good trend there. Our engineering business, a smaller business, growing double digit. Our pharma business, small and growing double digit. Our only headache still in The U. S. Is our finance business. Our finance business historically is a mix of the three businesses we had in Vadior and the two businesses we acquired with SFN. It's a strong portfolio. We can provide every level for our clients, but it still needs to come together. This takes time. We have new leadership in place with Rebecca Callahan, who has a very successful track record in our SourceRite business. So absolutely convinced that she will turn the corner with this business. SourceRite, I mentioned. And then in The Americas, the Canadian business, but also the Canadian economy is not great. And we're seeing that. We see some improvement throughout the quarter, optimistic that it will improve a bit into Q3. We have a good business there, we've got good people there, but there's some headwinds economically. France, when I talk about profitable growth and the choices we make, France, as you know, has been an example. Everybody talks about Cisse, but of course, in the early days, years ago, we already refused low margin clients. It's definitely our ambition to create a better market in France. And the only way to do that as a leading player is to strive for good relationships, for profitable business relationships. Again, we've roughly sacrificed 2% of growth, which wasn't attractive. You do see where this is going, by the way. You see Crete CNC, mid sized players growing fast. So we know where the business is going. We don't think this is an attractive long term strategy, and we're not doing it. Our targeted segments are in house, 25%. And this is the promise for the French market because we got many more points of sales. And if the market picks up, we'll take market share as we did in 2010, 2011 and 2012. Professionals at zero, I think, which in the market is pretty good. And perm fees, absolutely against market, happy there. If look at the EBITA margin, which again, on the one hand is good, on the other hand also driven by CICE. So you always have a bit of a mixed feeling about that result. But yes, it's a result. The Dutch business, yes, happy, really. Dutch business is the business which had the biggest from minus to plus development in the quarter globally, still negatively at the beginning and picking up rather quickly in June throughout the quarter. So you see it here. And again, both Ronson and Tempestine into Q3 growing faster. Yard back to growth since 02/2008. We call this the Chris Hoeghting effect because Yacht was in my portfolio for two years and now it's growing, so that helps. Thank you, Chris. But the whole professionals, because it's not just Jorg, also Randstad and Tempe team have professionals in their mix, growing 12%, which is definitely a sign of improvement in the market. Again, also here in Dutch market, focus on client profitability, Probably a coincidence, but also roughly 2% of business we deliberately lost. There is in any market, also in the Dutch market, a trend whereby some companies in some sectors buy, yes, they sell to the lowest bidder and we're more debt. Our gross profit up and we're very happy with the result in the Dutch market. The margin being stable and by the way, like up. And again, perm, 16% up. If you talk about, call it, the potential for permanent placement, certainly in the staffing businesses, then our benchmark is The U. S. In The U. S, the business went up from like 3% of gross profit a few years ago to 8% now. So perm in staffing, selling the same profiles we sell in staffing, but then perm. Our large Northern European businesses, our German business, our Dutch business, our Belgian business have roughly 3% of gross profit, so the same starting point U. S. As a few years ago. Their concept is now being adopted in the Dutch market, for example, and we see the growth. It works and there's a large potential for growth here. Germany, it's a challenging market. A lot has happened in Germany, of course, already last year. There is an economical effect, there's a political effect, and of course, there's us. Price effect is easing. So last year, we started with this equal pay implementation. The price effect compared to last year is easing. Very happy again, consistent. This is about trying to manage a company worldwide. Perm growth of 37%, really picking up. So the German business is now putting in 65% more activities in the market per person per week compared to last year. So again, the mix of calls, visits and perm send outs. And you see the improvement there. It's of a small base, honestly speaking, but we're getting there. You know the German business has been a business which has grown with large clients. There's still and will always remain a large part of our business, but we're now going to grow in white collar and into Peru. Good growth in the IT business, in our in house business, the Tempur team business And again, SME, that's what we do with the 65% more activities. Regulatory changes. Equal Pay, yes. Equal Pay didn't hit volume in 2013. It's hitting volume a bit now in Q2. Also, is a rule, which is outside of a collectors' labor agreement, where clients have said that after two years to their unions, they would do something with eight temps. If he or she had been working two years at the company, the objective of the union is that, of course, that these people are hired. We don't know if that's happening yet, but at least that's kicking in now. So since that gentleman's agreement, you might call it, that two years has passed. So we do see some pressure on temps working at the client to be sent home, by the way, sometimes, which we think is unfortunate, sometimes hired. The hiring is not the majority of this group of people, dampens our growth a bit. The growth the decelerating growth throughout Q2 seems to be stabilizing into July, so that's good. And well, a pretty stable gross margin. Belgium. Belgium is back on track. If you look at the earnings in Belgium, pretty good. I never compare with competition, but we always were, as a percentage, below USG in Belgium for years. And I've looked at Belgium for ten years. We're now above USG. For us, that's a small success, a small success. And also growth is picking up. The growth in June, you'll see the exit rate for Belgium and it's actually higher. We had an unfortunately low cutoff from June into July, also bid estimates sorry, from April into June, and we're actually growing a bit faster than you'll see in the exit rates. So current growth in Belgium is 6% to 7% into June, so that's quite a good pickup. UK, a mixed business. This is definitely also a business where you need to look at gross profit and perm fees. So gross profit up 7%, perm fees up 13%, definitely driven by a few good businesses. Education and Construction Property and Engineering, we think not coincidentally the businesses that we invested in marketing in Q4, if you might remember, so that helps. Again, here, focus on client profitability and staffing in house puts a damper on our top line but improves our business over time. Yes, doubled our profits, but you know we've got a long way to go in The UK. Iberia, very happy with our Spanish business, one of our strongly most strongly led businesses, made the integration of USG flawless, finished now. Our Spanish business is market leader, surpassed Adecco, it's a long term goal. And also focused on professionals, and that's a very impressive story in Spain. They went from eight player three years ago, probably number seven, eight, now to a top three position, and we're looking up. We're not looking down. We're looking up, probably want to catch at least the number two in this business, grew organically from zero people to 80 consultants. So that's a strong organic growth, Professionals growth story. Portugal, change management there and at the same time, in the business from low margin to mid or high margin. So Francois is working very hard with the new Portuguese management team on improving this business based on the strong market share we have, but also taking better business in this market. You see the result. Result in Spain has much improved, result in Portugal less so. So very happy about Spain. Portugal is a work in progress. And then Italy. Italy, I think I know, is one of the countries, a young market still, started in 1998, where penetration, which was below European levels is rising because the economy is not that hot, but we're growing 15%, which is above market, but it's definitely also more pickup of our product there. Italy also building a Professionals business, a specialty business, an RPO business. So this is coming to be a EUR 600,000,000 business and again, a richer portfolio over time. Switzerland, very happy with the business, outperforming the market. Poland, also the same story, and you do see the improvement in results. Japan, growth stable, 10% year on year. We do have some, call it, legal headwinds, policy headwinds in Japan in our spot business. Robert Chan is the expert. So if there's any questions, he will be happy to answer them. But growth, good growth. Japan is a business where you can have good earnings, good margins in Staffing, so very happy with our Japanese business. Australia, improving on the top line, still not enough firm. Australia is a bit comparable with The UK, but then probably a year back in development, internal development. The market is not too great. We got new leadership, very happy with Frank Reboo, our new manager there. And I think we're improving our business. I know we're improving our business in Australia. We're not there yet though. China, mentioned, 67%. Our Chinese colleagues always say, yes, we're doing well, but yes, we're not going to continue that way, which is okay because they still do. So we bring in a lot of people at the same time. Being Asia, you have also high turnover of people, but still growing into now a more than 500 people business overall, and as mentioned, 100 in perm placement. Latin America, we grow absolutely, but certainly in Brazil, we want to change the business from a staffing business into a perm business, which is a much more attractive part of that business. So that's me. And then I turn to Robert Chan or RJ as we call him. Thank you, Jacques. A few additional remarks from a financial perspective. First of all, Q2 is always an improvement compared to Q1. Sequentially, Q2 is the stronger quarter. But compared to Q3, it's not as good as Q3 can be. So that's typically the trend throughout the year. Q3, best Q4, a little below that Q2, below Q4 and Q1 being the softest quarter. This is the P and L, but underlying, I'd just like to point out that the growth throughout the quarter in revenues was 4.5%. June came in at 3.6%. If you look at the sort of the value underlying at the gross profit development, gross profit improvement in Q2 was 6%. The gross profit improvement in June was also 6%. And this is very much the focus that we have. We're looking for revenues for sure, but it needs to be of good quality. And there is a challenge, there's clearly a challenge in the French market, and I'll show you the exit rates later on so you can see the June revenue rate being suppressed by the developments in the French market. The gross profit also includes a contribution from perm. Jacques just referred to it, it's 10% of gross profit right now, which is sort of coming back to historical levels, but it's quite a while ago. It goes back to 02/2008. Operating expenses here, seasonal pattern, we are including some sort of tempting in our cost base, some additional marketing expense, but I'll get back to that. EBITA, the margin €174,000,000 And if you look at the companies, just flipped through it, there are now five of the largest operations that we have, which are either returning at or just above 5%. So that is quite a quality improvement, I would say. Reported EBITDA at EUR 173 Net finance expenses, as you can see, relatively low. It does include a release of a provision due to the fact that we have negotiated a pretty favorable deal on acquiring a minority interest, so extremely helpful. If you look at the key financial points for the second quarter, free cash flow arrived at EUR82 million. It's always a minus here because it's a challenging quarter always because of dividend payout, holiday allowance. This is nothing different from the regular seasonal pattern that we see here, but I'll get back to it at the cash flow statement. Leverage ratio, solid, improved to 1.3. Dividend of 0.95, just I think €66 or €67,000,000 of dividend paid out. The effective tax rate at 30%, roughly stable, and that includes the French business tax, EPS at EUR $0.06 4 and the USG integration completed. Now synergy is in line with expectations. So remember, we acquired a EUR 400,000,000 revenue book. We paid EUR 20,000,000 roughly. We added the integration expenses of around EUR 20,000,000. And we are now generating EUR 4,000,000 quarterly synergies, which adds up to EUR 60,000,000 a year. We probably have a little upside to go here. On top of that, we had one off tax synergies of around EUR 10,000,000. You don't have to be an expert in economic calculations to find out that this economically is party time. So this is the final time we report on it because this is considered to be completed and very much in line with the ambitions, with the underlying ambitions. Looking at the various segments, you can see the focus on delivery models. You can see that we have been very selective in making sure that we move as we have done before, move business as much as possible to in house where we by now have a 5.1% return, very, very high. It's always an art to allocate cost properly. We look at that and that gives us the number of 5.1. In the Staffing business, you can see that although we only had 1% organic revenue growth, the EBITDA was up by 22%. And also Professionals, it's closing the gap 4.5% in in house last year equal to Professionals 4.5%. This time, the gap has been reduced from 0.6% to only 0.3% between Professionals and In House. And that's the way it should be. We should see and of course, Professionals passing by the return on In House over time. Looking at the gross margin bridge, 18,200,000.0 moving to EUR 18,400,000.0 this quarter. We clearly see margin improvement also due to what Jacques elaborated on the focus in our business and the perm fees. We can see margin expansion in North America, The Netherlands, very strong focus on client profitability. Again, 6% GP growth, that is our key focus because there's a lot of business in selected markets available but not at the right price or at the right conditions. We mentioned in the press release, there are a few payroll related favorable items, which is like sort of a regular event. There's always estimates in here. We always have some releases. They were a little bigger this time, a few million more, and that is included here as well. Operating expenses, reconciling EUR $613,000,000 this quarter with last year's EUR $495,000,000, some impact from foreign exchange, an adverse impact, but also the USG benefits coming through an additional EUR 1,000,000 compared with the previous quarter. So this is sequential comparison. Marketing, we have invested more. That's the typical seasonal pattern. And then we have some additional expenses due to commissions, but also due to some temp labor in our own organization to support the somewhat higher level of business in Q2 compared to Q1. And then we continue to invest in our Rest of the World business including the Emerging Markets. Looking at net debt, down by EUR $235,000,000 year on year, solid leverage ratio. Not going to go through it, but an attractive return by now, 13.3%. DSO, by the way, also improved slightly, and that's a very strong focus we have on overdues here. And that's a challenge in the market. You might read some articles about extended payment terms and supply chain finance. And typically, these are not the solutions, the real solutions for the problems because it generates a huge amount of work, a lot of contracting, legalities and so forth. So we are very much on top of steering the real underlying DSO. Free cash flow, I mentioned it at the beginning at minus 82,000,000 There's nothing very, very specific here. If you look at the last four quarters to the right hand side of the slide, you can see that the last four quarters in twenty thirteen were better than the last four quarters in 2014. That relates mainly to the fact that we paid off the Dutch tax authorities. This was a long lasting item that was dealt with. And so we should add to the CHF $323,000,000, we should add CHF 131,000,000. You can also see that provisions sort of flipped from positive to negative. So we have been using over the last four quarters the provisions in Belgium and in France, which leads to a negative cash development here of 53,000,000. So a rather sort of stable pattern if you take that into account. Then we have refinanced the multicurrency syndicated credit facility. This is very opportunistic. I want to be very, very clear about this. This is not announcing sort of pre announcing any other ambition at this point in time. It's just not the case. We have financing in place. We always look at our competitors, which are typically capital market financed, which is typically more expensive. If you look at the net finance expenses of comparable players, Even outside our industry, you typically see high rates. We are bank financed. And that is a bit opportunistic, but we take out sort of the risk by having long term financing in place. We were discussing a couple the elements in the documentation. We did see an opportunity to refinance the whole picture. And then we said, let's put it at EUR 1,800,000,000.0. We could get a little more, but we sort of took it down to EUR 1,800,000,000.0. We currently pay like 1%, but it's floating. It's floating because that's the best hedge with the cash flows of our business. This is not an entrepreneurial vision. This is just very factual, trying to hedge the developments in our business. And we were also looking at more favorable conditions. So we have been able to reduce the rates slightly, but it is still attractive. And we also invest a little money all the time in having standby facilities available in case something happens so that you can sell receivables. But we've now been able to get an arrangement which allows us to go beyond 3.5x EBITDA. Our internal target is two, but externally, it is 3.5x EBITDA. And we have been allowed now in the new documentations to go to 4.25. Just in case, have another 2,009, that repeats itself. We want to be on the safe side. But again, there is no major or no relevant acquisition in the pipeline as we speak. So very happy with this opportunity, and we just took it when it came along. That brings me to the outlook for Q3. Organic revenue growth was 4.5%. In June, it was 3.6%. And I already mentioned the gross profit growth. We do see the gradual improvements continuing. First time growth September and then it improved. It's not very much the comparables that play a role here in the first half of the year because last year was kind of stable at almost minus 4% in both quarters. We do see the foreign exchange impact continuing at the bottom line. It's a limited impact. It was only sort of EUR 3,000,000 in the second quarter. So the gradual recovery continues, but we don't see an acceleration of growth yet, but we also don't see it getting weaker. And I think that is the conclusion that should not be in place. This has to do with a focus a strong focus on the quality of the business, and that's what's leading us in our activities. Same number of working days and again, a moderate increase of the cost base because that's a sequential pattern, somewhat higher revenues always in Q3 when comparing to Q2. Looking at the exit rates for the month of June. So we already mentioned June at 3.6%. If you round it off, it's 4%. The Netherlands at plus four France at minus 3%. This is the gross profit focus here. Germany at plus 1%, that's a bit understated. Germany, we always have to make estimates at the end of the quarter. In the course of July, you then find out what the real invoicing was, it was a little higher. So I think this is a bit understated. The same applies to Belgium at plus 3%, should have been a little higher. The UK at plus three Iberia at plus six, North America continues at plus three, the rest of Europe at plus three and the rest of the world at plus eight. Total rounded that was plus four. So that completes the presentation. We're now moving to Q and A. Arun? Thank you. We have the normal procedure. We start with questions in the room. Please wait for the mic. And after we finish here, we go to the webcast. Thank you. First, David, please. Yes. Thanks a lot. Yes. Please prevent yourself to two questions. Thanks. On the trend of Tempo team, maybe not easy to quantify, but could you, let's say, something about the impact of the improving end markets, for example, the public sector and also the efforts your own, let's say, efforts internally and paying off seeing into the improved top line? And then secondly, looking at The Netherlands, the gross margin is up or the gross profit is up 8% on flat sales. So your gross margin is apparently up. Could you say a little bit more on, let's say, what the impact has been of your churn and also the pricing impact? Have we seen some positive pricing impact, for example, or at least no negative? So temp team is improving throughout the quarter. This is very much an operational effort. So what Kees has done with his people is they sat down and they started calling in a call center environment, so a very condensed environment, all clients or ex clients that were in their database. We just mentioned the fact that, well, they're there and if there was any demand. And of course, we announced that. We had the feeling that demand was coming back. And Tempur team is doing that. And the improvement in activities then pays off. Not so much in sectors as such, the Tempur team sees a downward trend with large clients. Tempur team also sacrificed business with large clients because of profitability reasons. And they compensate them with different business, with better business. And as you know, the challenge is always you get a better margin, but then you need to match that with a higher productivity. And the good news, of course, is when you start growing, you get a better conversion and then you immediately get a better result. So it's very much a business mix thing, Dafy. Tempestine also grows again in perm, which has an effect. So the total growth in perm falls directly to the margin because in the staffing businesses, so in Tempestine, also in RANS, we do this with the same people. So the conversion of that gross margin is absolutely good. Underlying in the gross margin of The Netherlands? Yes, there is pressure in pricing. Also in The Netherlands, we've sacrificed close to 2% growth with clients we didn't want to continue with, both at Tempur team and in Randstad. That has been going on for a long time. It's nothing special. There are clients who yes, and that's their appreciation for the service we deliver. They think it's a commodity. They have companies buying it from them. And the only thing they do is just jot down the margin and the lowest one gets it. And we're never there. Hans Blywos, Kepler Cheuvreux. I got two questions from my side. First of all, on your presentation on Page eight with respect to the activity, you were indicating that the activity was up about 30% year on year. First of all, was it referring purely to perm or to the total business? And secondly, if that's let's say that increase is also significant, what was first of all at end of Q1? And how do you see it really converting into sales? How long it will take? And why not we're seeing already more from also all the message you have been, let's say, implementing with respect to increasing activity? And secondly, a small question on Germany, deceleration of growth. You already said that the price impact from the equal pay is diminishing. If could split out the development in sales by volume and price, please? First of all, to the activities. So as I mentioned, we introduced this in the company mid March. In mid March, we had a General Managers meeting. Then we worked for two days with our General Managers on with the guidance of the companies that were ahead in this segment, which again, as I mentioned, all there in those days was U. S. Staffing and Spain. And they taught their colleagues on how to do this. Also in perm, perm in staffing specifically, again, on the success we've had in The U. S. But also in Canada, by the way, These colleagues told their colleagues how to do this. They went back to their markets and they started implementing this. So you might say that as of April, May, this started to have an impact in the activity level. Yes. And then it's always difficult because then you talk about conversion. Conversion has to do with the market as such, which is difficult of different market to market. It has to do with our top of mind. In some companies, you need to do more phone calls to get a visit than in others. But in some markets, we've got quite a good return. So in The Netherlands, we have one in three, so three phone calls for one visit. And when you have a visit and the market is growing, you easily get an order. So we call this a very rich funnel, an easy funnel. Whereas, for example, in The U. S, it's a tougher funnel. You need to call more. This goes back to investments in marketing that we talked a lot about in Q4. So it's a matter of time, but certainly permanent placement is a business which is very transactional. It has to do with visiting a client. It has to do with one transaction, finding the client that needs to hire ATEMP. So here we see a quite quick return on our activity levels. And then in temping, it's more gradual. That's And then it's keeping it up, and we're keeping it up. And then we're quite confident that this will have an effect. But at the same time, you do have, in some markets, a large client just wanting less, less demand. And sometimes you sacrifice them. Of course, if you sacrifice one client, you want to replace this with a few small ones. That takes time. So that's the game we're currently playing. There's a lot of things going on in the company in a good sense of the word. And then development volume and sales, so it was plus 9% in Q1 and now it's plus 7% in Germany. Yes, so the price was 9% higher than volume in Q1, it's now 7% and volume has gone down a bit. So volume was slightly above zero in Q1, it's now slightly below zero in Q2. But as we see it now, a stabilizing picture. Next question, Mark? Mark Watts, ING. First of all, a question on the gross margin trends. Going from Q2 to Q3, last year, I think it was quite flat trends, then also the UFG came into the equation. Can you give us a little bit of a feel for how the seasonal trend would now pan out with the movements that you see in your higher margin business and also take into account the timing of the acquisition of I'd like to answer your question, Marc. The answer is no because when we talk about margin, we need at least one month full report on margins. And July, we don't have a month reporting yet. As you know, there is a seasonal trend, for example, it's very pronounced in Belgium. It's less pronounced in the rest of the markets. So we expect it at least compared to Q3 last year, that's roughly the same development. I don't see a reason why this should change sequentially. That's a bit tough to say at this moment in time. Did you have a big impact on that or ten basis points on the group level? No, it was in the slide of which is '20 two, you can see it was 0.1% impact in Q2. There is no reason to think that it's going to be very different. So underlying, of course, it was consolidated, but that's the impact of the consolidated USG business. And then the comments that will follow-up. Yes. We have shed some business, so underlying it might even improve a little bit. And then another question on France actually. The trend there in June going to minus three. What are you seeing in the markets? You see different trends at your peers, I would say. Is there any explanation for that? What's and how do you see that continuing into July? I have an expert in the room. So you are speaking about the trend in June. So yes, the market is still negative. So Jacques mentioned, we are below the market due to our strategy to focus on profitability. We continue to consider discussion with customer without its effect. So in the past, we decided to have hard discussion and to continue even if we are able to improve our profitability. So it's still the same strategy. We think that it's probably very dangerous to share part of CICE with customers. So the trend is still negative. We will hope an improvement probably in the market. But CCIE represents an opportunity for our customer to improve profitability, but we are not seeing new investments. Probably they are waiting for the new 10 additional to CSA 10,000,000,000 additional wages allowance. So probably they're waiting for the Euro manuals, decree to be sure about the next investment. That's what they have to do. Now you're saying that because of your price discipline on CICE and your gap with your peers that the others are less disciplined? Is that what you're saying? No. CICE we stabilize our price in Temping. Even if we have the sales tax. The answer is yes. The trend is It's a pity, of course, because this is for the historians in the room, the Allegion Manse is also a subsidy part in the bill rate in France. And competition, this is like twenty years ago, also competed this away. And we're bent on creating a better French market, and I hope we're not the only one. I think Adecco is okay ish, The rest is questionable. The trend will not trend in July? Excuse me? So the trend in revenues will not change in July? No. So France is the outlier economically and both from a policy point of view. Our earnings are okay. We would like to grow faster. We will if the market picks up because of all the points of sales we have in in house with a good leverage there. Next question for the items. Thanks. Good morning. Yves Franco, KBC Securities. Two questions from my side. Can you maybe give a guidance on the OpEx or maybe on the incremental conversion ratio targeted in the next quarter? Will it go down a bit? And second question, do you have some kind of targeted divisional split regarding SME and large accounts in The Netherlands? And can you tell us where you are right now at that split maybe? Yes. On your first question on the incremental conversion ratio for Q3, we don't have a target that we are sharing with you. We only gave it last time to give you some indication. We have, however, explained sort of the phases in conversion, in incremental conversion. And in our business, if we have the first phase where growth just comes in, we typically have incremental conversion ratios of around 80%. So 20% is then spent on additional marketing on bonuses, commissions. And then over time, after a while, it typically declines towards 50. And then only in Phase III, that's when you so in Phase II, you start adding people. That's why it goes to 50%. In Phase III, you start adding branches of being in house. And then it goes down, of course, gradually towards the regular level of EBITDA. But you have to look at it country by country. The U. S. Has been growing for quite a while. You cannot expect a very high incremental conversion ratio after many, many years, same in Japan. So the blend this time was 70%, and it very much depends on the blend of the total portfolio. So it will be high again. It will be north of 50%, but we'll see how much it will be. And then on your SME thing or question, our target is pretty simple. We want to work with as many clients as possible. And within the clients, we want to have the highest market share possible. But at the price, we think, is agreeable for both the client and ourselves. What you see economically is that if you see more growth, is that the SME part picks up. Yesterday, in our meeting with Supervisory Board, we had our Spanish operating manager, Rodrigo Martin. And although, for example, the Spanish market is also growing, he doesn't see much demand yet in the SME, but we monitor it. In The Netherlands, we do see it. In Belgium, we see it. So there we see the pickup. In Germany, we've never been there. This is a bit black and white, but there we need to fight ourselves in because there's a long tail of small German competitors in the SME space. And the only way to fight yourself in is to be there and to contact them and to visit them frequently. This doesn't happen after the first call or the first visit, you can imagine. So this takes time. So in Germany, the SME part will definitely increase and the white collar part will increase. But that's not we're not like targeting a certain percentage here. Maybe on the pricing pressure in The Netherlands, your steel yesterday reported it was hard but stabilizing quarter on quarter a bit. So do you see the same trend? You gave up some market share in The Netherlands, but regarding pricing pressure, you think it's now at the bottom? And will pricing pressure will become less from now on? Pricing pressure is anecdotal. So this is clients doing a tender, and these are large clients. And then everyone sort of jumps on these clients. Because we're market leader, sometimes these are our clients. This is not easing. This is not getting more or less. So this is again anecdotal. You can see in The Netherlands, looking at our margin in The Netherlands is that we take the right steps to compensate for this and more. So we're okay. Thank you, Yves. Now we move to Konrad. Konrad Zomber, ABN AMRO. First question on Germany. Am I right in thinking that you provisioned for the working day impact throughout the year, which might explain your really good margins in Germany in the second quarter? And the second question is on a slide that's gone missing, I think, is the your view on the different segments around the countries. Can you share with us what you see in the automotive business in Germany, whether your growth rates come down versus Automotive? Your Yes. And if I can squeeze a quick one in. In Japan, your EBITA margin that you generate in Japan, is that above or below the group average? Yes, it's roughly in line with the group average. It typically is a little higher, but Jacques explained that we have some additional enforcement of compliance in the spot field, and that is suppressing the growth a little bit in a very attractive segment. By the way, this is painful in Japan. The real scarcity is not clients but candidates. And these people are then moving to smaller players where compliance is not as sensitive, whereas we are fully compliant. That is a challenge. Then you asked about Germany. I'll take that one right away. We take it as it comes. So we don't make adjustments. We just follow the reality here. We're not provisioning. And on the sectors, yes, we had the slide, but it's not so scientific in a way. Automotive is not too bad. BMW is having record years. They're a good client of ours. By the way, they also are the most attractive employer, so the one that runs that award. So people around the world, 200,000 people, voted BMW as the most attractive employer. And we also sell a lot of cars, so that helps. So it's a bit from slightly up to slightly down. So it's not like anything is plummeting in Germany or any sectors are really plummeting. But it's a bit yes, looks like a bit of a pause in a way. Policy wise, we're not so happy with Germany. So what you now see is a very active and a bit dogmatic Social Democratic Party, which again is chasing the unproven scenarios of squeezing flexibility, and then they think this will turn into fixed jobs, which is not the case. We issued a study, flexibility at work, where we have scientifically proven or at least the universities we asked to do that, is that when you squeeze flexibility, it doesn't become fixed work, it becomes badly regulated flexibility. So that's not the way to go. What we also find worrying is we totally approve a minimum wage as such. But what you now see is that the minimum wage in the Eastern part of Germany is going to 8.5 And Poland, which is 40 kilometers to the east, is €2.65 This is an educated workforce with a good infrastructure. We think this is dangerous. We talked to the Social Democratic Party, but so far they have their own policy. We think this is not the way to go. We're lobbying actively, but yes, then again. We now move to the online questions. Please take over. Thank you. And our first question is from Paul Sullivan of Barclays. Paul, please go ahead. Thank you. Yes, good morning, everybody. Just a couple of questions. Firstly, on U. S. Professional. Can you give us a sense of timing or any timetable of the improvement that you're trying to get through in finance at the moment? Just what the market is doing in that particular vertical? That's the first one. And then secondly, in The U. K, it did seem that contract terminations stepped up quite a bit. As you can see, the sort of renewal pipeline through the second half of the year, do you think that is going to remain an ongoing drag through the second half in The U. K? Or was there a specific spike in the second quarter? Thanks. Yes, I'll take your U. K. Question and then Linda Gallipoli will take your U. S. Question. Yes, we are actively shedding that business in The U. K. Certainly in our in house portfolio, we do have a group of clients that is not necessarily willing to pay what we would like them to pay, and then we say goodbye. This is not a specific drag on Q2 or Q3. And by the way, we advocate looking at gross profit development and perm development in The UK because this is by far the most important part of our business we're focusing on. So it's less on pure top line. On the finance business in U. S. Professionals, first U. S. Professionals exit rate in June was flat, so slight improvement in the quarter. The F and A business is a significant but certainly not the largest business in The U. S. The U. S. Professional numbers are very much driven by the IT segment, so I think that's important to note. The F and A business underperformed and their performance in June was in line with the quarter, so we've not seen an improvement yet. Certainly the business is forecasting a solid improvement and given the new leadership, have every reason to believe that's going to occur, but is yet to come through in the numbers. It's certainly the segment that has been most affected by the slowdown in the mortgage sector that is a big user of flexible staffing. But I think at this point, it's internal issues that are driving the low performance and that's good because that's easier to correct for others. Great. And just following up on The UK, I mean, does that this low single digit you're reporting, is that likely to continue through the third quarter? Sorry, didn't understand your question. Can you repeat the Sorry, the low single digit that you're seeing in The UK, is that likely to continue in the third quarter? Do you see any sort of major shifts? Top line or Top line, top line, top line. Top line, okay. Again, don't know probably because there's not much going on there. But our high single digit growth in gross profit, expect to continue and that's good. That's clear. Thank you. The next question is from Chris Gallagher of JPMorgan. Chris, please go ahead. Good morning. I just had a quick question on the Rest of the World. I was wondering when you would expect the margin to start improving in that segment? Yes. Rest of the World is quite a cocktail. It's portfolio of countries. We have significant investments in Brazil, for example, while we expect to see the returns improving. So that means the investments on a net basis will start to decline. We have ongoing investments in India. It's quite a large operation. We run an operation with more than 1,000 people in India, and we'll continue to invest for the next couple of quarters. In China, actually, we're making too much profit. So we need to speed up investments. But you can imagine having been growing at the rate of 60%, 70%, 80% over the last quarters, an organization cannot continue that too easily or accelerate beyond that level. So we might continue to make a bit of a good return here. The Japanese business, it has the challenge in the spot field, but at the same time, it continues to grow in other fields. So no investments going on here. And Chuck mentioned Australia, where we are focused on the perm business, that should start to give us returns. So on a net basis, gradually, we should see this improving going forward in the next couple of quarters. Great. Thanks. The next question is from Tobey Reich of Morgan Stanley. Tobey, please go ahead. Hi there, guys. Can I ask a couple as well? The first is on leverage and the capital structure. I mean, it looks like you're going to have pretty much no debt by the end of twenty fifteen. You've got an internal target of two times net debt to EBITDA and there aren't any acquisitions in the pipeline. Can you talk around your thought process of how that will pan out, particularly around returns? Yes. These assumptions are not illogical, so to say. It's a matter of scenarios testing. And if you would follow a continued growth scenario, then indeed at the end of twenty fifteen, there will be either little or no debt left. But we don't know if that will happen, first of all. Secondly, we don't have any relevant M and A in the pipeline as we speak, but we might be looking at it in the course of the next quarters. We might start to look at it again. Again, strategically, we're not cooking something sizable, very sizable. That's not the issue as per today. The point is just if you can get this kind of facility at a relatively low cost, if you again compare our financial expenses with the market, it's very, very low. So we're making an investment here, which is very acceptable. It's rather opportunistic. It's there. If we need it, we'll use it. If not, we're not going to use it. Getting to underlying potential assumptions. This is not arranged in order to repurchase shares. That's not the intention here. So no pending sizable acquisitions, nothing in the KUX in terms of global changing transactions, no repurchasing of shares being prepared. That is sort of the underlying argument here, but rather opportunistically refinancing ourselves for the next five years. The question isn't around the covenants being 4.5%. It's just that your internal target is 2% and then you're going to be zero in 2015 and you don't have any M and A and you're not going to repurchase shares. I mean, there scope for the dividend to increase? Or what's the thought process around that internally? Yes. Again, this is we try to disconnect transactions and financing as much as we can. We did see an opportunity in the market because we typically spend a little money to keep sort of insurance options in the air, and we could combine it now. If we save a few 100,000, then we just go for it. And now we could sort of move the insurance options into the overall arrangements. That's why we did it. And again, this is the financing that's going to carry us for the next five years into 2019, and then it has two extension options that brings us into 2021. Something might happen in these years, but nothing in the books right now. Okay. So to put the question another way, I should just assume in my model that you turned cash positive in 2016. I shouldn't be assuming that you use that cash flow on I mean, you've sort of ruled out buybacks. You're saying there's nothing in the pipeline, but I shouldn't assume that you will look to return some of that if you go cash positive in a special dividend or something like that. Yes. Well, we've studied it once more. If you go back to economic theory, share buybacks are not adding economic value unless the money is in the balance sheet for a long period of time, and that's a statement we've made before. If Ramstad arrives at a net cash position and it lasts for a while, then we'll certainly reconsider this at that point in time because we're not going to keep cash in the balance sheet forever. But that's not the case at the moment. That will take a little while and then we'll come back to it. Okay, okay. The second one is you touched on I think we have to move on, Toby. Next question please. Thanks for your questions. The next question is from Tom Sykes of Deutsche Bank. Tom, please go ahead. Just wondered if you could detail the growth rate in the in house business in North America, please. Just it looks like it was growing at about 15% in Q4 last year and it's sort of about 7% now. I just wondered whether that was due to a lower level of transfers, Canada or what's happening to the underlying sort of if you give a view on the industrial maybe manufacturing business in The U. S? And then also you just made the comment on MSP in Europe maturing quickly. I was just wondering whether you could expand on that and maybe which countries you thought were adopting an MSP model more quickly than others, please? So on The U. S, the numbers we report are not net of transfers. So in RIS, what you're seeing is actually the underlying organic growth rate is improving, it's accelerating fairly significantly. That has to do with two things: lots of new wins, new programs, and a robust and many are saying renaissance of the manufacturing sector in The U. S. So the growth of the RIS segment in The U. S. Is very positive. The comparative growth rates throw us off a little bit because they include transfers. So last year the growth rates were primarily driven by transfers. This year the growth rate is driven by new wins and if you saw also the branch growth rate in U. S. General staffing, it's also up. I think that the interpretation is actually an acceleration, not a deceleration. So I understand why that's a bit confusing. Okay, and you'd expect that to is that bottoming out now, that in house North America should start reaccelerating again? Again, it's not not accelerating. The number is confusing because it includes transfers. You have to kind of look at the overall general staffing number to look at the health of the segment because we move things back and forth between the branch segment and the RIS segment. Okay, thank you. You want to do the MSP one also or not? Do want to do the MSP one? You do it because I missed the question. Okay. Yes, well, good morning also to you, Tom. Yes. Well, MSP, we have a great team in U. S, An experienced team, and they're doing well and they're selling more programs. We sold a lot of new programs into Q1 and they're maturing into Q2, so that helps. As you know our company well, when we have a strong concept, we multiply it across the world. So we now have a global team on MSP and RPO, a source wide team, and they share experiences. Also in our GCS team, of course, we sell around the world. And that fuels our growth. MSP is still certainly in Continental Europe, a pretty immature market. But lending Thyssenkrupp in Germany, 150,000,000 spent on the management, 33 locations is really a benchmark success. And yes, this business feeds on one client telling the other ones that they made a good choice. So then you get sort of a speed up. So pretty happy with the development there. And we think it's crucial because if you look at The U. S, probably 85% of all corporates have a program in place, either MSP, RPO or both. And we want to be ahead of the curve in that development certainly in Europe and ideally also keep up with this development in Asia. Do you feel like the speed of acceptance is moving up a little, obviously, the reference client there within Continental Europe, obviously, ex U. K. And Europe, where certainly the RPO model or then maybe the MSP model has been there for a while. Is MSP in Continental Europe is a bit more traction there? Yes. Well, we in our total talent architecture approach, we don't talk about MSP as a means. We talk about managing workforces. We talk about managing suppliers. We talk about compliance. We talk about a long term HR visibility based on transparency and spend. And then you get to MSP. So yes, it's being picked up. And in Europe, if you look at the conferences, which where we are and where we present, in the HR community it's becoming more and more logical to start contemplating this. And then again, there's more and more clients who already have adopted a similar model, then you get the speed up. Okay. Many thanks. Thank you. Okay. The next question is from Laurent Brunel of Exane BNP Paribas. Laurent, please go ahead. Yes. Good morning. Just a couple for me. Firstly, in Australia, could elaborate a bit more on your good performance, which contrasts with your competitors' numbers? And is it the results of your sales force initiative? And secondly, on France, do you expect similar performance in Q3 versus Q2 despite tougher comps and a weak July? And what do you see in the Construction segment, please? Francois will do the French the question on France. On the first question, heard good performance, so thank you. But on which sector were you specifically aiming? Sorry, in Australia. Australia. Oh, Australia. Yes. Yes, well, I think good performances between brackets. So yes, we grow relatively fast in large blue collar clients. We've not implemented in house yet in Australia. We're doing that now in the second half of the year, so I think we'll benefit more from that. So our growth in the top line, although it's always good to have that, doesn't translate yet into a great EBITA performance. And they know that. So we have two strategies in Australia. One, as mentioned, moving large clients to in house and the second one is grow faster in perm. Definitely optimistic about what goes on in Australia, not yet happy with the overall result. France? France, the trend about Q3, so if we look at the trend in July, a professional union announced a downturn around for the week minus four. So I don't know if you feel it will be better. Probably, once again, company are waiting for the €10,000,000,000 additional to decide to invest or not. So our aeronautics is doing very well. Automotive is getting a bit better, but due to a bad effect on the construction segment is doing very bad. So I don't know if Q3, but we hope that we will see. We have no good sign right now. Okay. And can you just repeat the exit rate in June for the rest of Europe? I've earned 8%, but I think it's a wrong number. Just checking the data now. Europe was plus 3%. Plus 3%? Yes. Compared to plus 20 in Q2. Plus 20% in Q2. I mean for other European countries, is that correct? Yes. We had an exit rate for Q1 of twenty eighteen and now for Q2, it's plus 3%, rest of Europe. I'm a bit lost. When I look at your performance for other European countries, it was 20% up organically in Q2. And you're talking about an exit rate of plus three? We'll have a look at it and we'll come back to this item. Just hold on. Okay. Thank you. We'll move to the next question, then we'll come back. The next question is from Rajesh Kumar of HSBC. Rajesh, please go ahead. Hi, good morning. Could you just give us some clear indication on what July growth rate you are indicating? It says it's in line with the quarter. So when you say in line with the quarter, are you talking about April or June? And second, you've talked about the funnel process in which people are taking decisions quicker. Which particular market is that happening? And what do you think it means for the conversion ratio? On your first question, yes, it's a pretty clear guidance. So the revenue level projected for July is roughly the same as for Q1. So yes, I think that's pretty precise guidance. I cannot put any more light on that one. I didn't understand your second question. So could you repeat that one? So you're saying July is in line with Q1, not Q2? Yes. So 4.5%, something like that. Okay. And the second question is basically the speed of hiring, which all markets have you seen? Speed of hiring? Yes. Okay. Yeah, well, speed of hiring certainly in The U. S, in The U. K, it's picking up a bit. But I would still I would like to reiterate the fact that our growth in perm is also a deliberate effort and not so much that the speed of hiring overall is increasing. So we do see some better markets, but also some markets where this is a result of deliberate sales effort. I'm now going to come back to the question on the exit rates for the other European countries. That was a typo. So thanks for identifying it. It doesn't change the total, by the way. And as a compensation, I'm going to give you the exit rates of the underlying countries. For Italy, it was so the exit rate was 19% for other Europe. And for Italy, was 15% for Switzerland, it was just north of 13% for Austria, it was north of 50 and for 5%, yes, and Poland 25%. That's pretty good return on a mistake, isn't it? And Austria with the 5% growth, that's the part we bought from USG. And we have a follow-up question from Toby Reich of Morgan Stanley. Toby, please go ahead. Hi, guys. Looks like I get my second question after all. Could you just on the OpEx development that you're expecting as we go into next quarter, could you just talk around the marketing side of things? How much do you think that's going to pick up by? And is that the primary driver of the increase in? Yes. Nothing spectacular as in marketing boost like Q4. So a slight seasonal pickup certainly in September, because September is always when you start the year again and then we have a lot of marketing offense plans to be in the market to support our people going out. And certainly also in The Netherlands and also The Netherlands, we'll again have what we call the youth at work project where we're going to try and get a lot of unemployed youth back to work again like we very successfully did last year. So very much looking forward to doing that again. Okay. So sort of a similar progression that we saw into Q2, is that sort of level we should be looking at? Okay, cool. Okay, thanks. We have no further questions coming through on the telephone lines. Okay, then we go back to the room where we have three final questions. Please limit yourself to one or two questions, please. Thank you very much. Yes, two final questions from my side. First of Robert John, can you give us an indication how much the interest costs will go down on the back of the renegotiated loans on an annual basis based on current net debt and current floating rates? And the other question is about Germany. What do you see going on there in July? Because you see some automotive working throughout the summer and expanding holidays. So is July getting a bit better because of companies not going on holiday? No, not because of that. Because it's not companies not going to holiday, you see when they have a lot of demand and it's not that booming. They just do what they usually do. We do see the comps not decreasing in volume. So that's good. So the volume development compared to the same period last year is flattening out. So where it was going one, two into the down volume, volume is now stabilizing in July. Can't realize a lot of improvement on a relatively low amount of financial expenses. So that's the starting point. And the improvements have been marginal. So if you take €60,000,000 as a base for now, then I guess we might be able to save €1,000,000 or so or €1,000,000 plus. But it's very much dependent on the underlying base rates, of course. That is key. And these are very attractive as we speak. Yes. So one question from my side on Iberia. There you see year on year only about €2,500,000 improvement in your profitability, while you see organically a quite significant growth at the same time, of course, you've about saved about EUR 4,000,000 on the USG integration. So what's happening underlying? What's the reason for that? That's why haven't seen a better improvement in absolute profitability. Yes. It's a combined Spain and Portugal. Spain is a very steady, good improvement. In Portugal, we've made some adjustments to the portfolio, the client base. Portugal is a growing market, but also challenging. Typically, diesel is sort of very high levels. You have to think about eighty, ninety days. Pricing can be unattractive. So we have made some choices here in the portfolio. That's what you see coming through. You, Jacques. Peter Lowen at S and S. First, I'll limit myself to one question, and that is regarding the permanent placement business. Of course, seen a great growth there this quarter. And given the activity that you've been putting out, I expect that to grow further in the next coming quarters. Where do you see this business strategically go to as a percentage of your gross profit? I know that is not an exact question that 2016, I won't have 20%, but more on a broader level, how does it fit in your portfolio? Yes. There's two things, two developments here. One is the development of growing more in perm in the business mix in our more established countries. So comparison again, U. S. Staffing going from 3% to 8%. And the Dutch business, the German business, the Belgian business is still at three percent. They could go up to 56%. A second development, of course, is that we have more companies who sell perm, the Chinese business being one of them. We're also changing our Brazilian business, which in hindsight was too much built into, again, a staffing business, large clients, low margin. We don't want to go there, certainly not in Brazil, revamping that into perm business. So there's also a business effect. So our highest point was 12% perm fees in the gross margin in 02/2008. I think over time but again, rightly so, this is just a number, 15% could be feasible. But again, depending on developments, you know how it works. Finally, I'll the floor to Robert Jan. Yes. So I'd like to sort of finalize the Q and A. Thank you for joining us on the presentation. I'd like just to add one thing, that is that the trends that we have seen now in Q2 and going into Q3 are very much also confirming the fact that we believe the 5% to 6% EBITDA range is very feasible depending, of course, I mean, it's a matter of timing, very much depending on the speed of growth. That's also important in the context of my final point here, if I may, because we have one guy sitting here who's been with us, Jan Peter, has been with us since 02/2004, for the last ten years. He's been responsible for the Investor Relations for the last three years. Actually, a predecessor of yourselves is here, Pete Heine, and your successor sits here, Arun. Your two other predecessors are in Singapore and in TempoTeam. And actually, you're going to follow the same path. Jan Peter has been promoted to become the CFO of our Portuguese business. You just heard a question about it, so work to do. And we just, on behalf of everyone, wanted to say thanks a lot. We highly appreciated your conscious work, your dedication, your passion. It was an excellent period of time over the last three years. Thanks a lot.