Earnings Call: H1 2021

Feb 21, 2021

Okay. Good morning, everyone. My name is Rob Goss. I'm the Chief Financial Officer of Ordinate, and beside me is Aidan Williams, our CEO. Thanks, and welcome to the first half FY 'twenty one investor call. Thank you very much for the interest and for the support. In a moment, I'll hand over to Aidan to take us through the first part of the presentation that we lodged earlier with the ASX. I'll talk to the numbers briefly in the middle, and then we'll return to Aidan. In terms of logistics around questions, I'd like to encourage you to use the Q and A functionality within Teams. We will do our very best to work through all of the questions that we get. To the extent that we run out of time, we'll do our best either to get back to you or, yeah, address them as best we can. So, anyway, by all means, don't wait for the for the end of the call to to put your questions in. It's helpful for us to be able to sort of process them and, I guess, to group them together to the extent there's any overlap. Without any further ado, I'll hand over to Aidan. Okay. Again, good morning, everyone. Thank you for taking the time to join our call today. So as Rob mentioned, I'm Aidan Williams. I'm cofounder and CEO here at Ordinate. As we're all aware, 2020 provided a unique operating environment, the worst of which I'm pleased to say appears to be behind us. We're very pleased with our FY twenty twenty one first half revenue and operational results with the business basically back on our pre COVID footing. It is encouraging to see confidence returning to the AV industry reflected in good demand for Dante products heading into the second half. Our recent capital raise and improving conditions have enabled us to invest for growth, notably with the creation of a new development team focused on video products at Cambridge in The UK, which I'll discuss later in the presentation. We believe we have a sound strategy, and it is pleasing to be able to prudently invest to further strengthen Ordinates market leadership the digital media networking space. Over the next few slides, I'll talk to the key operational and financial results for the first half, touch on our current market position and the impact of COVID-nineteen and update you on the status of Dante Video. On Slide two, which is on the screen at the moment, you'll see a summary of Ordinate's core business. Many of you will be familiar with this, but just a very brief reminder, Ordinate provides networking technology to manufacturers of professional audio and video equipment. We are primarily a networking IP and software company, although we package our software for sale into chips, cards, and modules so that equipment manufacturers can readily incorporate our technology into their hardware designs. Our customers are companies like those shown on the slide, the brands you can see there, Yamaha, Bosch, Bose, and a host of other major brands in the professional AV industry. The first step in our typical sales cycle begins with a manufacturer, and that first step is the design win, where we sign up a manufacturer to use one of our chips, modules, or software products. Then it typically takes twelve to eighteen months for a manufacturer to complete a new product design incorporating our technology. Once each product is available for sale, the manufacturer regularly orders chips and modules or pays a per unit software royalty each time they build new products, creating a repeat revenue stream for Ordinate. As you can see on the map, we're a global company with headquarters in Sydney, Australia. We have several locations around the world, primarily providing sales and support functions. Notably, we have recently created our first product development location outside Sydney in Cambridge in The UK. This team will be focused on the development of new video products. On Slide three, you can see the key financial and operational highlights for the '1. The key takeaway is that revenue has returned to pre COVID levels of US11.1 million dollars in the '1. As you can see on the chart, gross margin dollars came in at $8,600,000 to the pre COVID $8,500,000 in the 2020. The chart shows gross margin dollars and gross margin percentage to highlight the ongoing shift in product mix towards software style solutions. As this transition occurs, gross profit dollars are expected to become a better measure of financial performance than top line revenue growth. We've seen strong growth in software units, up 61% compared to the prior period. Satisfyingly, the introduction of our new software Dante implementations, that's Dante embedded platform and Dante application library, have driven record number of 51 design wins in the half. We saw consistent growth in the numbers of Dante enabled products on the market with the milestone of 3,000 products being achieved during the first half. We also continue to see good conversion of OEMs shipping their first Dante enabled products, up 23% on the prior comparable period. And we launched two new variants of our own AVO adapter product line, the Bluetooth and USB products. The applications there are really around bring your own devices like phones and iPads as well as being able to connect to computers in conferencing. So Rob will speak in more detail to the financials later in the presentation. Slide four shows achievements against our medium term priorities, and we've had these medium term priorities for some time now since roundabout, you know, well, when I became CEO in in August 2019. To begin, though, let me briefly remind you of Ordinate's long term strategy. The AV industry is undergoing a shift away from hardware based AV systems to software based AV systems, and Ordinate's networking technologies called Dante are uniquely positioned to provide the foundation for that transformation. Notwithstanding the turbulence of COVID, we've been able to invest in growing Ordnate's engineering and R and D functions, notably with the addition of a video team in Cambridge. The unexpected impacts of COVID have delayed our expansion by around six months. We continue to make progress putting in place infrastructure to support scaling the business with a merchant of record system implemented in the 2021. And new billing and information security frameworks expected to be completed during the remainder of this financial year. These will enable efficient scaling of finance and operational functions. On the new product side, software Dante audio implementations are now generating material revenues and driving record design win numbers. The addition of a new development team team in Cambridge will accelerate video product development. We expect the first Dante video products to be available on the market from our manufacturing customers during FY 2021, with each of these products resulting in repeat orders for Dante video modules each time batches of those products are manufactured. Video represents a new market segment for Ordinate with the potential to double the size of our existing networking business in time. As with our audio business, we continue to drive design wins with manufacturers, and we expect the availability of the first Dante video products to catalyze further interest. Finally, we expanded our range of AVO adapter products with the new USB and Bluetooth variant variants, and customer interest for both products is pleasing. Slide five summarizes Ordinates' response to COVID nineteen. Talked about this on a number of previous in a huge amount of detail. So the left hand column, I think we've spoken about a number of events previously, but this is what really happened during the second half of f So just as a quick recap and remind since we had established a second contract Asia just COVID outbreak, we're able to weather the shutdowns with our Malaysia and China China based manufacturing facilities, taking such that we had a continual supply of products like Brooklyn and ADO. We did experience a 25% decline in revenue in Q4 and in response undertook prudent measures to control costs, including a hiring pause, a pay freeze, some reduction in headcount and the forfeit of bonuses. Nonetheless, we had a good half operationally with record growth in products launched and key marketing metrics such as the number of training courses taken and certification completed. The right hand column shows the key events and actions that took place during the first half of FY twenty twenty one. Broadly, the combination of the capital raise, recovery of revenue to pre COVID levels and strong even record operational metrics translate to a strong recovery during the first half of FY twenty twenty one. Sales into higher education and corporate conferencing markets have been strong. However, live sound and large event markets remain challenging. As recovery occurs, there has been a surge in demand for a variety of goods, which has in turn increased pressure on global chips supplies across many industries. For Ordinate, as we manufacture electronic items like printed circuit boards, This has resulted in increased lead times on many electronic components, particularly chips, and we're managing and monitoring that situation closely. Moving to Slide six, you can see a summary of Dante's position in the market, and this is a this is a chart that we update relatively regularly. The chart on the right shows the growth in numbers of Dante enabled products available on the market over time. Also shown are the numbers of products on the market using competing networking technologies. As you can see, the number of Dante enabled products continues to increase up into the right, surpassing the milestone of 3,000 products during the 2021. You can think of the 3,008 number as the size of the product catalog of Dante products available to an AV system designer. The gap to the next nearest competitor has grown and is expanding and is now at around 17 times. Since the Dante technology provides interoperability between different brands of networked AV equipment, the ecosystem of Dante products exhibits a strong network effect. This occurs in two ways. Firstly, designers of AV systems want to select products from a large catalogue of compatible products. So that's the interoperability piece. And secondly, AV equipment manufacturers, for example, of microphones, want their product to connect to the largest available ecosystem of products on the market. This network effect associated with the Dante product ecosystem, the interoperable ecosystem, represents a substantial and growing barrier to entry. Training is a leading a key leading indicator of Dante adoption. And during the first half of FY twenty one, we saw 17,000 AV professionals undertake some form of Dante training. Slide seven highlights the new video development team established in Cambridge. A significant corporate development activity during the first half of FY twenty twenty one has been the establishment of this new development team in Cambridge in The UK. This team was was established to accelerate video product development and is a major milestone for Ordinate as as it is the first product development group outside our Sydney headquarters. In addition, we have recruited a corporate development role in Cambridge, focusing on strategic partnerships with an emphasis on video. We have recruited 11 staff to date with substantial experience in video product development in excess of a hundred and sixty five years in total. The team leaders were well known to ordinate, and many of the team have worked together before, which has been helpful as we bring a team on during heavy lockdown in The UK. Ultimately, we expect to open an office in Cambridge as restrictions ease. Slide eight provides an update on progress with Dante Video. Three Dante Video design wins have previously been publicly announced with three companies, Yamaha, Bohlen and Pattern Electronics with other manufacturers yet to be disclosed. And you may recall that Bohlen demonstrated a prototype Dante video camera during the last IOC trade show in Amsterdam, which was in February 2020. What you can see on the slide here is product collateral for three Dante AV products from this company, Bolen, with the camera and an IO device and also from Pattern Electronics. So these products have been recently announced, and this this is public collateral that's out there. The combination of a Dante AV camera, such as the one you can see on the screen there, and Dante AV IO devices that can connect projectors, computers, and other HDMI equipment to a Dante network enables a variety of all Dante audio and video systems to be deployed. Last year, Bolen and Pattern announced their intention to make Dante products, which we call a design win. They took the Dante AV product design suite, which is one of our products. You can see that in the bottom left hand corner of the slide. And they used it as a reference to build their own products, which are the products that you see on the right hand side of the slide. Each of the products shown from Boll and Pattern contains a Dante AV module, and each unit manufactured will result in a module sale for Ordinate. We expect the first Dante AV products to ship during the remainder of FY 2021 with volumes and, therefore, revenue increasing during FY '22. And with that, I'll hand over to Rob for the finance section. Thanks, Aidan. And once again, good morning, everyone. Over the next few minutes, I will be explaining the first half FY 'twenty one results, and the information I will be covering is set out on slides 10 to 14. I'll start with slide 10, which sets out some of the key revenue information for the business. In US dollars, revenue was $11,100,000 growing over 19% from $9,300,000 in the 2020. This puts revenue back on a pre COVID footing, given that we also recorded 11,100,000 in the previous corresponding period, hereafter referred to as PCP. In Australian dollars, revenue was down on PCP given currency headwinds. The overall composition of revenue did demonstrate a marked shift to software based Dante implementations, as we have flagged would occur in our previous results announcements. Software revenue grew nearly 48% relative to first half 'twenty, primarily due to significant growth in royalties, including IP Core and Dante embedded platform. Collectively, royalties grew over 50%. To a lesser degree, there was good dollar growth in retail software sales, which grew over 40%, and Dante Domain Manager, which grew over 50%. Chips, cards and modules revenue benefited from strong growth in Dante OVO adapters, which grew more than 50%, and good growth in Broadway, also more than 50%, and Ultimo chips at 28%, partially offsetting a material decline in Brooklyn revenue. The Brooklyn product is often sold into mixing consoles and is consequently most impacted by the decline in live sound and live events due to COVID. From this point onwards, all amounts quoted will be in Aussie dollars. In terms of the income statement set out on page 11, you will note that we maintained our gross margin percentage at around 77%, and EBITDA was also in line with PCP at approximately $1,800,000 Overall, we did see a slight decline of 6% in operating expenses to $10,000,000 The most notable driver of the decrease was in sales and marketing expenses, reflecting savings on travel, trade shows, and currency impacts. Headcount grew to 116 at period end from 01/2006 at thirty one December twenty nineteen. This essentially excludes the Cambridge team who have largely joined in the start to the second half. In terms of other expense lines, the continued increase in depreciation and amortization is largely driven by the increasing balance of software development costs, but also includes a portion of lease costs and a higher expense for property, plant and equipment since the move to Kippak Street. Consistent with the full year, we are not in a position of recognising tax losses, hence the large movement noticeable in the income tax expense line. Overall, the group recorded a net loss after tax of $1,200,000 compared to a PCP net profit of 300,000.0 On Slide 12, you will note the ongoing emphasis of investment in research and development. With the strengthened balance sheet from the capital raise, there is ongoing conviction around R and D spend in the second half. What is also apparent is the operating leverage in the business model, with additional revenue relative to second half 'twenty dropping through to EBITDA. On Slide 13, you will find the cash flow statement, which shows operating cash flows of $3,200,000 compared to PCP of $2,900,000 The current period includes government grants, primarily JobKeeper, of approximately $1,000,000 The group undertook capital raise in July and August, and the proceeds of $40,000,000 are disclosed in financing activities. Some of the proceeds were invested in term deposits with maturities greater than three months and under the accounting standards are not considered cash, hence being reflected as a $27,000,000 outflow in investing activities. The balance sheet is set out on Slide 14. From our perspective, it is a clean balance sheet with no debt. Cash and term deposits have been bolstered by the capital raise, amounting to $66,300,000 providing the company with a strong balance sheet to consider corporate development initiatives. I will now hand back to Aidan to cover the outlook for the second half. Thanks, Rob. So turning to Slide 16, you can see a summary of our FY '21 objectives and actions. As always, a key objective is to get new design wins over the line for Dante enabled products, unlocking repeat revenue from per unit sales in future years. Recovery will occur eventually, and manufacturers have not laid off product design staff. So priming the product pump during manufacture sorry. So priming the product pump during downturn makes a great deal of sense. On the product side, a key activity this year will be to broaden our video product offerings. Our audio product portfolio consists of chips, modules, and software solutions to meet various customer needs. Our video product portfolio likewise needs to broaden to meet a wider range of manufacturing customer needs. On the training and marketing side, our training offerings certification programs will be updated to include Dante Video, and we will roll out support for a wider range of languages on our website, in documentation, and in training materials. Finally, the recent capital raise enables M and A opportunities to accelerate growth. Downturn may create strategic opportunities to acquire strategic assets, teams or technologies, and we are now in a position to capitalize on that. With the addition of the Cambridge team, we now have a dedicated resource for a range of corporate development activities. On Slide 17, you can see some outlook data for the AV industry and for networked AV in particular. These charts come from surveys taken by Commercial Integrator magazine. They are surveys of called system integrators. System integrators play a key role in the in the AV industry, designing and specifying AV systems on behalf of clients. The chart on the left shows a significant increase in the willingness to use AV over IP or audio visual over IP, and that's a vendor neutral term for technologies like Dante. So there's there's an increase there that you can see from 56% in 2019 to eighty twenty twenty. Notably, the proportion of integrators who would never use AVO over IP in their designs has dropped to 4%. The two pie charts on the right speak to positive industry sentiment in terms of revenue and numbers of projects in calendar year 2021, which in combination with the increased readiness to use networking technologies like Dante augurs well for Ordinate going forward. So in summary, if we move to Slide 18, Ordinate is seeing confidence return amongst OEMs, system integrators, and end users, resulting in an overall improved industry outlook for calendar year '21. Whilst COVID related risks remain, including to global supply chains, they are abating as vaccines roll out. Good trading conditions have continued into the beginning of the second half of FY twenty one, albeit we expect Brooklyn revenue to continue to be impacted by the downturn in live events and, you know, any large scale kind of live events, live sound concerts and things. The group has accelerated investing for growth with a target headcount of around 140 staff by the end of this financial year and a resulting increase in operating costs of between 2,000,000 to $3,000,000 in the second half. Whilst we remain wary of lingering COVID impacts, we are cautiously optimistic that the pandemic may serve as a catalyst for an acceleration of the transition from old school analogue cabling to networked audio and video. This bodes well for Ordinates' long term growth opportunities, and we are excited by the path we see ahead for our business. As we've said before, further trading updates will continue to be provided throughout FY 'twenty one given the nature of the trading environment. Thank you, Rob. Thanks, Aidan. And so what we'll do now is turn to q and a. We have not a huge number of questions, so we will try and work through all of them in turn. So this view, Aidan, is is for us, rather than those on the line. So I will read through them, in turn, and, we'll we'll take it from there. So the first one comes from Quinn Pearson. How did monthly sales for January and so far Feb compare to the December? Does the order book look supportive of further increases in monthly sales levels? So I think that's one for me. So, Quinn, we do comment in the release that we have continued to see strong trading conditions in the start to the second half. That does also include a good backlog placing the business well for the second half. The second question comes from around Humphreys. It's the GP margin on software versus firmware versus chips, cards, and modules units. So software implementations typically have a a gross margin of, call it, a 100. Or there might be some nominal costs. Chips, cards, and modules will vary. The Brooklyn product is the highest gross margin percentage at 75%. Some might sell with the gross margin percentage at around 50%. So CCM is really in that range between seventy five and fifty percent. Can you talk to the planned headcount increase? Is this targeted primarily R and D? Yeah. So I I think we we have been working our way through increasing headcount on the pure r and d side of it, so engineering product management, that sort of thing. So I think we're we're probably somewhat I think we're about sort of 75% of the way through that particular sort of growth or planned growth. I think what what is likely to be the case, I guess, of the remainder of the headcount that that we're looking to put on, it will be spread a bit more widely through the company. And, certainly, there are some operational positions that we we feel we need to to invest in to enable us to to scale our manufacturing and the operational side of the business in particular. And we've also recently put on a new VP of marketing in order to, again, scale our marketing operations as well. So the headcount increase won't be, like, very directly around r and d. It will be more spread than it was previously, but the bulk of the hiring we've done, the older growth we've done to date has been in the r and d side of things, particularly with a dozen or so people that we've added in Cambridge and The UK. Thanks, Aidan. Next question comes from Stuart Turner. Congratulations on getting through 2020. It sounds like a bit of achievement in itself. With 360 new OEM customers and 27% growth overall in OEM products to 3,008, seems organic growth within the original custom cohort was about 12%. Do you expect this to increase post COVID? Yeah. So I think that's a good question. It remains to be seen. I think one of the things that happens with downturns is larger companies tend to sort of pull back a bit on what they're doing. And so some of our larger customers, I think, haven't haven't come to market with stacks of new products during the COVID period. I think we've done very well in terms of getting new OEM customers on board and converting those new OEM customers to having, you know, their first down to the product on the market. But I think it's it's it is the case. I think that larger companies have been also proactive around investing in things like R and D. And I think I would expect that to return as we see particularly our customers with exposures in places like live sound. I would expect that that as that comes back, then there will be an increase in organic growth as well. Yes. Stuart, it might be worth catching up and and chatting offline. I wanna make sure that you appreciate that largely the growth in the existing the the product numbers or a lot of that comes from existing OEMs. So I'm not quite sure about how you arrive at the the the 12% number. So if we think about things like Dante embedded platform, which which grew very strongly, they were they were licenses taken by existing existing customers. So I guess as we think about our revenue growth, ordinarily, the revenue drivers are in in order. People buying more of the existing products that are already available on the market. So that is absolutely something we would have expected to happen as sort of people recovered from COVID. New Dante enabled products becoming available. A lot of the time that's through penetration of existing OEMs portfolios. And then the third driver, and definitely sort of third in terms of order of importance, is those new OEMs. By all means, happy to chat further offline. In terms of other questions, we have a series of few questions here from We'll take these one at a time. Aidan, gross margin, 77%, largely flat. Good outcome when sales fell 5% on PCP. Clearly, software helped that. Can you talk about 50% revenue growth for DDM, DEP, and IP core, which also saw growth 50% PCP? Yep. Okay. Will I will take that. So I guess what we've done is sort of wrap up all of the royalties into one sort of collective bucket. Things like Dante and Better Platform were sort of coming off a zero compare. So their growth rate, I'm not really sure how you calculate that, but super strong in terms of that transition. The DDM number was sort of strong relative to PCP. We did see an increase in the second half of 'twenty. So that's a more continual sort of growth and trajectory. There's smaller dollar numbers for DEM, whereas DEP and IP core, two relatively new products did provide a significant boost to the overall royalty revenue number. I read I can go with the second question. So the second question is, meanwhile, chips, carbon modules, product set, but clearly, Altman and Broadway did well. And unsurprisingly, Brooklyn was weak. Can you talk more about the Brooklyn market positioning and what is its exposure overall to live events and live sound and the degree of shift from Brooklyn to cheaper cards like Broadway? So I think the the the way I would I would frame Brooklyn is is Brooklyn is is one of our oldest products, and so it's been on the market for a very long time. And we initially had quite a lot of exposure to companies selling things like mixing consoles and amplifiers into the live sound market. And at that time, Brooklyn was really the product that was the main product that was used there. So the exposure of Brooklyn to live sound really represents the longevity of the product and a fairly high degree of penetration into mixing consoles and, you know, touring and live sound amplifiers. So as as and it's also a relatively expensive product in the sense that whilst it it is is more expensive than, say, a Broadway, the those products sold into live sound are the Brooklyn module represents a pretty low proportion of the overall cost of the product. So those products can sustain that product. So, obviously, live sound and any any live event is is pretty dire at the moment, at least until we get things like vaccines and stuff. And so that has affected the the the the sales of Brooklyn modules as most of most of the touring and event companies are not investing in your equipment right at the moment. They're trying to stay alive. Having said that, is we started in Livesdown, and then we've moved into increasingly into commercial installed AV. So we do sell a decent number of Brooklyn modules into commercial installed AV. And so these Brooklyn modules then go into products that sit in the center of an AV system, and they're pulling a whole bunch of signals. They're the sort of products that you would put into a system that goes into a building somewhere as opposed to a live event. That particular segment of the Brooklyn business is doing pretty well, seems to be recovering. And so there's a blend with Brooklyn, but clearly our larger exposure is really around live sound. With all of our products, we have a desire to reduce the marginal cost of adding Dante to a given product going forward. We see that with Brooklyn, so with Broadway, with Ultimo, and now with the software products. So I don't think there's been a huge shift of dropping Brooklyn in favor of using Broadway. I think there are some products that I would think that it's more getting into a new segment or a new price range of products rather than, say, cannibalization of the existing Balkan products. Aidan, I'd suggest the next one is probably one for you, and I'll take the question. Three, with regards to the release of video products in FY 'twenty one, can you talk to time line of events to commerciality and end user feedback on AV module and AVPDS? Yes. So I think one of the reasons of actually purposes behind showing those the product collateral was to give you some flavor of the timeline to commerciality of those products. So those products are in an advanced state of design. Bolan has demonstrated a camera already. So we are hopeful, although we're not in control of Bolen or Pattern's actual release of the products. We think we're on track to get our first glance AFE products into the market and available in the hands of end users by the end of this financial year. In terms of end user feedback, it is a new product. It's been going well. Inevitably, are things that need to be corners that need to be filed off, that sort of stuff, and we're working through that activity right at the moment. Okay. Question four, can you shed more light on the movement in the commercial install market, particularly the market for new fields versus greenfield versus dominant brownfields, existing refurbs, refits, etcetera? So I guess a couple of things in in answer to that. So for us, when we sell our components to a manufacturer, we we don't always have a perfect well, we we never have a sort of perfect look through to where that signal processor or that amplifier might be installed. What we do to do get is sort of, I guess, feedback and an appreciation of where OEMs are particularly strong in in different verticals. In terms of the commercial install market in particular, there was some market research done last year which talked about this market. And what they did was break down greenfields versus brownfields spend. Greenfields was about approximately 23%, and they like and the potential impact there is back to the DFC, which was quite significant. The balance was brownfield expense. A lot of that is things like maintenance, refurb, refits, etcetera. And that was over 77. And and the research suggested during the GFC that that really didn't decline in any sort of market or material way. Next one's for you, Clayton. Yep. Next question was why have you set the video up The reason for that is is really we we had a a kind of we had a relationship with a chip manufacturer who happened to be based in Cambridge, and we were on an r and d we had an r and d project going with them, and that company was called DisplayLink. And, ultimately, DisplayLink was acquired by another larger chip company called Synaptics. And through that acquisition, Synaptics rationalized their their headcount in The UK and laid off about 50% of their staff. So through that that corporate acquisition process, that meant that a bunch of people became available. And so we had a pre existing relationship with a number of the team leads and senior people that were in that group in Cambridge. And so there was an opportunity with these people becoming available and on the market and looking for other opportunities. There was an opportunity for us to assemble a team in Cambridge, and so that's that's the the main reason behind that. So we we have a a UK operation already, and so we had a bit of infrastructure and mechanics to be able to hire people. It was something we needed to move relatively quickly on, but it was largely to do with the the serendipitous nature of of the acquisition and then this team becoming available people people becoming available that we could assemble into a team. And and, Abe, I think I'm correct in saying Cambridge is a is a well known center of excellence for video expertise. That's correct. Cambridge is most people probably aware of the the university in Cambridge. It's obviously a pretty elite institution, so there's actually a lot of engineering and technical talent around Cambridge generally. So it's actually a good place to recruit as well. Companies like ARM are based in in Cambridge as in the chip process of chip company as well. So lots of tech people in there. Yep. Question from King Queen Pearson. Can you talk us through when revenue starts becoming material at a group level? Video revenue is that if we're selling the modules at at $80 a go, you know, 12 and a half thousand units sort of gets us to about a million dollars US. So, you I know, think that's sort of really how I would think about that quite quickly and how we get to that will depend on the popularity of the the products that we've got in the in the pipeline for the second half of FY twenty one. Another question from Cheney Mining, cost investment targeting breakeven, but free cash flow negative where investment mirrors revenue growth. We expect to see operating leverage come through in FY 'twenty '2 and 'twenty three. So I think, Cheney, we did do a capital raise for a reason. We have talked about the different opportunities we see to accelerate our ability to penetrate the total addressable market, particularly around video, but then also around software services. So, you know, I would expect that particularly in R and D, which was sort of flagged in the presentation. Another question with intangible development at roughly 3,000,000 for the half. Where do you see this number heading mid to long term? I guess we don't have a sort of hard and fast rule around this. I think well long running and well established businesses that are technology and technology and product centric, you do see sort of a magic sort of 20%. I imagine that we wouldn't be going below that in the medium term for us as a business because that sort of R and D spend is really at the core of what we do. Cheny Wang, FX and gross margins. Just to remind us COGS prices in US dollars, hence, offset lower US dollar revenue. Any sense of net impact on gross profit? So, Cheney, yes, you are quite correct. So our inputs and the arrangements we have with contract manufacturers are all in USD. So that does all flow through. There's been a a slight sort of point 1% impact on gross margin, maybe 0.2%, just depending on the sort of the timing of the FX impacts. Claudia Walker, spending on R and D projects projected to increase expected revenue growth in the second half and going forward. Fair to say, increase in cash burn in next couple of years will keep it closer to current levels. I think I've referred my earlier comments in response to Cheney's question. Another question from Alex Hughes. Can you please elaborate on the new subscription model? I think that's one for you, mate. Yeah. Sure. So the historically, the design win phase of acquiring a manufacturing customer has involved an upfront fee for that manufacturing customer. So some of those upfront fees, in particular for our IP core products, have been quite high in the order of, you know, 80 to 100,000 and potentially more in terms of the upfront charge. So one of the things we explored this year or this this this first half was to look at spreading rather than charging a large upfront fee than actually have an annual fee that was a really license fee associated with access to the technology. So the subscription model is is not, I guess, what, you know, pay the credit card SaaS type subscription model, but really a different way of of of paying for the the license fee to to use the data feed technology. And so what we've done there is reduced the upfront fee and then had an annual fee, and customers are able to remove some of the upfront costs, and that's that's removed I guess, it's removed some of the friction in in being able to get over the line with with new products. That's been particularly effective with software products like the Dante IP core, but also the Dante embedded platform as well. So I think the combination of those two has really driven this increase or the record number of very strong design wins. So if I sort of segue into Tim Plum's question about what's going on with these 51 design wins, what subsegments are they, and and what what's the expected time before this might come to market. So I think the the strong design wins is really a combination of things. I think it reflects the the the healthy interest in our new software products like IP Core, Dante embedded platform in particular, but also represents the tweak that we've made to the the the upfront pricing and the subscription model associated with that. So that combination of of lowering the upfront charge and having software variations that people can deploy pretty quickly into their products has driven a lot of lot of the increase in those design wins. So, yeah, so I can just in closing, there's sort of one more there for you to talk to in moment. But for those on the line, thank you for your interest. We have answered all of the questions that have come through the the q and a line. There is one last question, which I will get Aidan to answer in a moment. But thank you again for your for your interest. Yeah. So it's a question from Tim Plum. Can you talk about the corporate and education markets? Any sense for the potential demand from these sectors to update their offering given increased focus on Zoom, online learning, etcetera. So one of the things we found is that, you know, even though live sound has been somewhat flat or, you know, pretty challenging, other markets have done really well for us. And in particular, higher education and corporate conferencing are two markets that have been quite strong, both for our manufacturing customers who are selling products into those markets, but also the products and components that go into those. The the our products, the things like our IP core, reference designs, Ultomotive, things like that have been doing very well because of and AVO adapters, USB AVO adapters. So what's going on there is a lot of universities, particular, educational institutions are trying to work out how to enable learning to occur in an environment. They now need an AV system for their their typical lecture theater or training room or tutorial room so that they can either spread their people so they can have half as many people in the lecture theater and the other half of the the lecture in some other room just to provide some social distancing or alternatively to connect that learning environment to some sort of online system like Zoom or lecture capture and recording. There there are various combinations. It doesn't have to be exactly Zoom, but there are a lot of there's a lot more in need to have recordings of lectures and the the the learning environment as well as being able to support things like overflow. So that's driving a lot of interest in upgrades for AV systems in the university sector. It seems that many universities will continue that investment over the next few years. They seem to be in a mad rush to try and get everything done, but those universities are building out quite a lot of AV infrastructure anyway. And I suspect that it's a secular shift somewhat in the way of delivering education in the university sector. So we probably won't go back to the old school way of everybody turning up and meeting. I think what it's done is it's accelerated the trend for more online content learning and distribution than it had previously. And there's a variation of that as well in corporate conferencing where things like huddle rooms no one mentions huddle rooms anymore. That used to be a that used to be a buzzword that people would say in the AV industry. The idea of a huddle room was you had seven of you all clustered around some little tiny USB microphone in a room, that kind of idea. With COVID, that's not really a thing anymore. So people's conferencing environments, particular more spread out. Multiple speakers. And as soon as you as soon as you've lots of inputs and outputs technology to plumb that stuff into a building. So that's the sort of general flavor of what's going on with that. And with that, I think that's all we have today. So thank you very much for your time and for your questions, and we'll look forward to seeing you again at another date. Thanks.