Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I'm Geoff Black, Chairman of ClearView Wealth Limited, and I would like to welcome you to the 2022 annual general meeting. Firstly, I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia and their connection to the land, sea, and community. We pay our respects to the elders past and present, and extend their respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islande r peoples today. If we experience any technical issues today, we will communicate with registered participants on how to access the meeting again. The results of the meeting will be announced on the ASX later today. As a quorum is present, I now declare the meeting and the poll open. I would like to introduce our directors who have joined us today. ClearView's Managing Director, Simon Swanson, Gary Burg , Jennifer Lyon , and Susan Young .
I would also like to welcome Judilyn Beaumont , our General Counsel and Company Secretary, our other members of the executive leadership team, and Imogen Connors and Peter Caldwell from Deloitte, our auditors. Voting at today's meeting will be conducted in person and via our online platform managed by Computershare. The Computershare Returning Officer, Glen Rogers, is with us today. For those attending virtually and entitled to vote at today's meeting, please log in to the online voting portal as provided in the notice of meeting and online voting guide. Voting on all resolutions today will be conducted by way of a poll to allow everyone attending our meeting virtually with enough time to vote. I advise that online voting is now also open on all resolutions.
If you are eligible to vote at this meeting, please select the vote icon and this will bring up a list of resolutions and voting options. To cast your vote, simply select one of the options. There is no need to hit a submit or enter button as the vote is automatically recorded. You will receive a vote confirmation on your screen. You can cast and change your vote on all resolutions up until the time I declare the voting closed. I welcome your questions at our AGM today and advise that Judilyn Beaumont , our Company Secretary, will monitor the Q and A function on the webinar. We will attend to all questions after all resolutions have been read out. Online attendees can submit questions at any time. Please note that while you can submit questions at any time, I will not address them until the relevant time in the meeting.
To submit a question, please select the Q and A icon and type your question in the text box. Once finished, please hit the send button. To ask a verbal question, please follow the instructions written below the broadcast window. Questions may be moderated or combined if there are multiple questions on the same topic. When asking your questions, please identify yourself as a shareholder or visitor or, if applicable, who you represent. Please also advise which of our item of business your question relates to. I will then determine whether the question is appropriate for me as Chairman, the auditor, or Simon as Managing Director to answer. The notice of this meeting was given to shareholders in accordance with the Corporations Act, and I therefore take the notice of meeting and resolutions as read. The agenda for today's meeting is set out on the slide shown on the screen.
I will deliver my address before handing over to Simon. I will then address the items of business, after which I will answer any questions. On behalf of the board, welcome to ClearView's Annual General Meeting. It is great to welcome some of you in person, and thank you also to those joining us online. It seems we've learned to live with COVID, and we are getting back to some degree of normality, although the long-term impact of COVID is unknown, and we remain cautious in our outlook. We now have to face additional economic threats that brought about by rising inflation, escalating interest rates, and external energy shortages caused by the war in the Ukraine. The resulting pressure on household budgets has caused global financial markets to decline materially and impacted consumer and business confidence.
Financial stress has an impact on claims, and the affordability of life insurance is tested when customers see their household budget affected by rising cost of living. ClearView demonstrated through the dark days of the global pandemic that it is committed to supporting customers through difficult times. We see the current environment as another opportunity to meet or exceed our customers' expectations. Positively, from a financial perspective, rising interest rates improves the yield on our portfolio, which is predominantly invested in short-term fixed income securities. I'm proud of how ClearView has managed these past few years, and I'm confident we will continue to go from strength to strength. This, however, is not reflected in the share price, and we continue to believe the business is materially undervalued given the company is trading at around 62% of the embedded value, excluding franking credits.
The business, especially the life insurance business, is building strong momentum, which is reflected in the improved financial performance. In FY 2022, ClearView reported material improvement in every key financial performance metric. These positive improvements are a result of tough decisions made in recent years, including the tightening of policy benefits, increasing premium rates, focusing on customer retention, and the launch of our new sustainable ClearView ClearChoice product series, which has been well-received. We have also invested heavily to enhance our capability in claims and in risk management. This momentum is continuing into 2023. The wealth business has faced significant headwinds. Poor investment markets have made attracting new contributions difficult. ClearView has held a very defensive outlook for some time, and it's only in recent months that this is reflected in relative performance.
In wealth management, we continue to simplify our product suite and migrate customers to a more contemporary offering. However, the wealth business remains materially subscale and a drag on overall performance. The simplification transformation must continue, and we are exploring options to improve financial outcomes. Last year, I outlined that ClearView would continue to execute its transformation program. I'm pleased to report that the business has made solid progress towards its transformation goals. This included expanding its distribution footprint and increasing new sales. In FY 2022, new business sales increased 24% on the previous corresponding period. The trend continues through Q1 2023, with new business sales up 17% for the same period year to date. We continue the implementation of our new life insurance platform.
This has taken a little longer than planned, driven by challenging logistical factors caused by COVID-19 in the early part of this calendar year. The project has solid momentum, and we are now beginning to see some of the benefits flowing through, although these will not be fully realized until 2024. We are also focused on enhancing the experience of our customers. In August, we completed the implementation of our market-leading wealth management digital front end, increasing the ability of our wealth customers to monitor their investments and manage their personal details online. We are working towards a similar offering for our life insurance customers. In 2022, we completed the sale of our advice business to Centrepoint Alliance , retaining a 24.5% shareholding in Centrepoint Alliance.
Simon sits on the board of Centrepoint Alliance, and we see value being created through this investment as the advice sector continues to consolidate. Our relationship with Centrepoint Alliance also provides value insights that enable us to optimize our advisor support. I would now like to make a few comments in relation to ClearView's strategic review. Last week, ClearView announced the conclusion of the strategic review and provided a trading update. After a thorough competitive process, the board decided not to proceed with any transaction. ClearView will continue to operate as an ASX-listed financial services company. Originally, when ClearView commenced the strategic review, the objectives were to determine the group's optimal future direction, protect and enhance customer and policyholder outcomes, and achieve a long-term shareholding base, including potential change of control transaction.
While a number of interested parties participated in due diligence process, the board determined that it did not receive any proposals that represented appropriate value for control of ClearView, particularly given the group's continued improved performance. In the quarter to 30 September 2022, ClearView performed strongly and to expectation. The business is on track to achieve growth and underlying net profit after tax in FY 2023 in the range of AUD 28.5 million-AUD 30 million. How do we see the future at ClearView? ClearView continues to focus on growing its life insurance business. Future growth will be underpinned by the continued evolution of ClearView ClearChoice as an attractive and sustainable offering, and the efficiencies generated through maturing of our administration platform, supported by a high-performing team. ClearView is also focused on simplifying the wealth management business, which may include outsourcing services to business partners.
Looking ahead, we will continue to strengthen our risk management and compliance capability, including our continued focus on cybersecurity and data protection. The board is very aware of the organization's responsibilities and the importance of having strong controls in this area. In 2023-2024, ClearView's financial reports will look a little different as IFRS 17 will become the standard by which we report our financial results. This is a significant change, and work is being undertaken to ensure the transition is as seamless as possible. However, there will be comparability challenges in respect to prior years. ClearView continues to proactively manage its capital requirements. A strong capital position enabled the board to increase the dividend from AUD 0.01 to AUD 0.02 per share this year. This is slightly under the midpoint of the target payout range and reflects the board's position in seeking to pay dividends at sustainable levels.
Finally, I would like to thank my fellow board members for the work they have done this year. Their support and dedication throughout the year was much appreciated. I would also like to thank Simon and the team. Despite ongoing disruptions in 2022, their resilience and passion for the business showed through in the momentum we now have and the results that are starting to flow through. In particular, I would like to acknowledge the many hours the executive team has spent preparing presentations and supporting due diligence activity and other activities supporting the strategic review. We are excited about the future and look forward to your continued support. I will now hand over to Simon for his presentation. Thank you.
Thank you, Geoff. There is nothing boring about working in financial services, I can assure you of that. We are in the middle of yet another financial advice review. This is just one year on from the introduction of ASIC’s Design and Distribution Obligations and the industry-wide launch of new life insurance products. Treasury's Quality of Advice Review is an important opportunity to improve the accessibility and affordability of personal financial advice, and ClearView is broadly supportive of the proposals to date. We believe a move to more principles-based regulation is appropriate for the emerging financial advice profession. I note the recent release of the Quality of Advice Review's Conflicted Remuneration Consultation Paper.
We are pleased that Treasury's observations in relation to life insurance commissions are consistent with ClearView's long-standing position that consumers should be able to choose how they pay for their life insurance advice, be that a fee, a commission, or a combination of both. The proposal to retain the existing exemption for life insurance products recognizes the important role that commissions play in solving the advice affordability and accessibility puzzle. We commend Treasury's commitment to working with the industry to ensure sensible workable reforms that encourage more Australians to seek professional advice. In the current environment of rising interest rates, inflation, and heightened market volatility, it is imperative that personal advice is accessible to more Australians. Uncertain times are often a catalyst for people seeking advice on how to both protect and manage their wealth.
It is in times like this, with global economic and political instability and the rising cost of living, that advisors can add a lot of value, not only in terms of guidance on budgeting, superannuation and investments, and life insurance, but also reassurance and emotional support. At ClearView, the holistic well-being of our customers is a key priority, reflecting our purpose to support Australians to achieve their financial and well-being goals while being a positive force for our staff, the community, and the environment. That vision lies at the heart of our corporate social responsibility strategy, which reinforces our commitment to our people, customers and business partners, the community, shareholders, and of course, the environment. ClearView is an organization that is committed to being a good corporate citizen. We strongly believe that responsible behavior delivers better stakeholder outcomes and increases long-term capital value.
I'm pleased that ClearView remains on track to achieve its short to medium-term objectives. In the financial year 2022, operating earnings after tax increased by 22% to AUD 28 million. Underlying net profit after tax from continuing operations, and this includes the underlying investment income and interest costs on corporate debt, increased 22% to AUD 26.4 million. As stated in our full year results in August, ClearView's solid performance was underpinned by steady growth in our in-force life insurance portfolio and strong underlying claims and lapse experience. ClearView's new business volumes also increased by 24% to AUD 20.2 million in FY 2022, and we are now achieving circa 7%-8% market share of quotations in the independent financial advisor market since the launch of our new ClearView ClearChoice product suite.
Looking ahead, we continue to invest in people, processes, and technology as part of our transformation journey. We want to ensure that we remain easy to do business with and lay a strong foundation for future growth. Our new policy administration platform, which was launched in October last year, continues to evolve with regular enhancements and upgrades scheduled over the next 12-24 months. All things being equal, the rising interest rate environment is a positive for ClearView. We benefit from a higher return on capital and with, relatively speaking, lower claims costs. Furthermore, the built-in indexation benefit that is available in to contemporary life insurance customers not only ensures their cover keeps pace with inflation, it also provides inflation protection for ClearView. As a result, it improves the profitability of some product lines.
In wealth management, our superannuation and investment portfolios are conservatively positioned, reflecting the older age and risk tolerance of many of our customers. August marked the successful launch of our new wealth portals, including an advisor portal and a customer portal. Developed in consultation with customers and business partners, the wealth portals deliver an enhanced digital experience, including a new online application process, access to tools and calculators, and the ability for our customers to self-service. Currently, we are undertaking a review of the wealth business to determine the best way to take that segment forward. As Geoff mentioned, and you may have seen, last week we announced the conclusion of our group's strategic review. The board determined that it did not receive any proposals that represented appropriate value for control of ClearView, particularly given the group's strong performance and the ongoing improvement overall of the broader life insurance industry.
ClearView will remain an ASX-listed company, and I'm excited about continuing to grow the business and take it forward. Going through the strategic review process has been beneficial, and it provided useful insights and made us a stronger organization. As a result, we've identified a number of areas of opportunity and growth, and we intend to focus on these. It is important to note that ClearView has a very solid financial base. The embedded value, which can be a proxy for intrinsic value, is AUD 0.92 a share, including franking credits at the 30th of June 2022, or AUD 0.78 a share excluding franking credits. The embedded value is, by definition, a conservative indicator of the intrinsic value of an organization. As it ignores both value created in the future from the existing platforms and any value that can be created from new lines of operations.
With such a strong base, we believe the outlook for ClearView and the broader life insurance industry is positive. This is reinforced by our recent guidance for the year of an underlying net profit after tax of AUD 28.5 million-AUD 30 million. This excludes any contribution from our investment in Centrepoint Alliance. The life insurance market has shown strong resilience during a difficult period, and we are now seeing growth accelerating through an improved regulatory outlook and return to industry profitability, driven by structural reforms focused on sustainability. These tailwinds are further supported by an increasing interest rate environment, which is a further positive for ClearView. More specifically, good claims and lapse management, when combined with these points I've made, give us much confidence that ClearView can continue to grow both profitably and strategically.
Finally, I'd like to acknowledge and thank Geoff and the board for their support, along with the executive team, the people of ClearView, and the financial advisors who recommend us to their clients. With that, I'll thank you and hand it back to Geoff.
Thank you, Simon. The first item of ordinary business is to receive and consider the financial statements, directors' report, and the auditors' report for the financial year ended 30th June 2022. There is no resolution, however, this item of business gives shareholders and their proxies the opportunities to ask questions and make comments on the business, its management, and financial statements. Shareholders and their proxies may also ask questions of our auditor in relation to the conduct of the audit, the preparation and content of the auditor's report, the accounting policies adopted by the company, and the independence of the auditor. As mentioned earlier, Peter Caldwell, representing our auditors, Deloitte, is here today and will be available to answer questions.
The company's financial statements for the year ended 30th June 2022, the directors' report, and the auditors' report were distributed to shareholders and are also available on our website. A summary of the resolutions to be dealt with during today's meeting appears on the next slide. Resolution one is to consider and adopt the remuneration report for the year ended 30 June 2022. Shareholders are reminded that the poll is open, and you can vote at any time. Proxy votes are outlined on the screen, and I intend to vote all undirected proxies in favor of all resolutions. As stated in the notice of meeting, Gary Burg and Susan Young retire and stand for re-election today. The directors' details and experience were provided in the annual report, notice of meeting, and on the ClearView website.
Each of the directors, other than the directors standing for re-election, recommends the re-election of Gary and Susan. Resolution two is to consider, and if thought fit, approve the election of Gary Burg, who retires as a director by rotation under the constitution. Proxy votes are outlined on the screen. Resolution three is to consider, and if thought fit, approve the election of Susan Young, who retires as a director under the constitution. Shareholders are reminded that the poll is open, and you can vote at any time. Proxy votes are outlined on the screen. Resolution four is to consider, and if thought fit, approve as a special resolution, amendments to the company's constitution as described in the explanatory memorandum and on the ClearView website.
The proposed amendments to the constitution reflect changes to corporate governance practices, the Corporations Act, and the ASX Listing Rules to accommodate hybrid and virtual meetings and update legacy provisions and outdated terminology. Proxy votes are outlined on the screen. That concludes the resolutions. I will now take questions from attendees in the room and respond to any that have been submitted online. Are there any questions? Yeah.
Yes. Hi. Ron Shamgar from TAMIM Asset Management. I got a couple of questions. The first one is regarding the strategic review. Obviously it seems that there's a, you know, a disconnect between what the market thinks that, ClearView business is worth, trading at sort of AUD 0.48, and what the board believes the underlying value of the business is. Now, the board has pretty much shopped the business around for over a year, and there hasn't been. Well, we don't know what the offers have been because the board hasn't disclosed what price was offered for the business. I think the board should tell shareholders why they rejected those offers, what the offer was, because obviously there's a disconnect here, between the two.
First of all, we've signed confidentiality agreements with all the parties we're involved with. Price isn't the only factor in consideration. You know, we're looking at it from the perspective of all shareholders, from customers, policyholders, as well as so regulatory risks around that, execution risks in terms of the different structures put forward. To say it's just a price discussion, sort of, you know, not quite how we looked at it. There's a.
Underlying it all, the board does have a firm belief as to where value and where the business is best served in terms of moving forward. You know, the discussions we had with various entities, we felt we were better remaining a listed company and focusing on improving the performance of the business, generating improved profits, improving our dividends over time, that will ultimately reflect in a higher share price.
Okay. Then second question is just about the financial performance. You've given guidance, AUD 28.5 million-AUD 30 million. If I'm correct to comparing it to last year, that's about 12%-13% underlying profit growth. If you actually look at the contribution of rising interest rates, it seems like the business isn't really growing, if you exclude the interest rate benefit this year. Can you maybe clarify that or sort of explain?
The business is certainly growing. If you want details of the financials, Simon, I might-
Yeah.
Defer to you potentially on this one.
I think I'd say interest rates don't flow through straight away. For example, if you take the last quarter of last financial year, really our interest rates only rose for the April quarter. The Reserve Bank increase of what occurred two weeks ago only starts to come through now. You don't annualize that growth. It takes time to come through. As interest rates increase, that'll flow through more into the following year, not this year, so to speak. It does take time for it to flow through. With respect to claims, as you discount the fact the claims cost at a higher rate, you only do that for new claims, not for old claims and so on. These things take time to come through.
CPI indexation, which goes through on policies, will only take place as the actual CPI is reported and then it flows through. It doesn't come through immediately, and that's why there's not a direct link, so to speak, to interest rates through to the profit growth. That'll occur later on. I think the other point I'd make in respect to your first question is the embedded value of the organization is actually an actuarial calculation. It is independently audited as part of the policy liabilities, and that gives you a firm handle on the value of the organization in a runoff situation. You have AUD 0.78 a share excluding franking credits and AUD 0.92 a share including franking credits. I think that gives the board a firm handle on value per se. It's not just something we've made up out of the air, so to speak.
Yeah.
I would just say that, I mean, value is at the end of the day what you can extract for shareholders and what someone is willing to pay. You know, if someone's not willing to pay that, maybe just run the business off and shareholders can collect AUD 0.93.
Maybe we can take some of that offline, but I'd just leave a thought with you that a life insurance company has pretty strong obligations to policyholders, and a runoff scenario might not necessarily be in the best interest of those policyholders. We're very, very cognizant with that. Yeah.
Thanks very much. This is Joseph Constable from Hancock & Gore. My two questions, the first is on reinsurance costs. There's been a bit about inflation in that capacity. Is that impacting your business at all?
Reinsurance definitely impacts our business.
Yeah.
It's probably our single largest expense, if I'm not mistaken.
Do you see that? I mean, obviously, your guidance. Does that take into account the recent inflation? Do you see that being impacted going forward anymore?
The arrangements we have, like certainly our insurance costs have gone up quite significantly over recent times, simply reflecting the claims experience of the past product. You know, we work pretty closely with Swiss Re, who are our primary insurer, to have a consistent view so that we have a sustainable product in the market. We don't want them to be losing and us winning, so we very much work in partnership. You know, so in terms of that, those costs, we've negotiated pretty, I think, competitive terms with them. For them to increase rates, you know, they need to demonstrate to us, you know, why the rates need to go up. It is a competitive reinsurance market out there.
There's almost as many reinsurers as there are life insurers in Australia. There are options available and that does keep, you know, the reinsurers honest. I think the efforts the industry has made in terms of delivering a sustainable product will hopefully take some of the volatility that we've seen in reinsurance over the past three, four, five years, sort of make it more stable in that respect. We monitor that very closely.
Thanks. The other question is on your investment portfolio, the fixed interest securities you own or through PIMCO, has the capital value of those not been impacted by bonds? Or are they all so short term that it hasn't been and shouldn't be impacted?
Yeah. First thing, the makeup of the portfolio is an asset liability matching that takes place, and that's a combination of inflation-linked bonds too. We have long dated liabilities in our income protection claims portfolio. Let's just say they're matched. We also have an incurred claims treaty with Swiss Re. That's quite a complex issue. We are paying them investment returns on that. Net-net, you come down to having AUD a couple of hundred million plus of short duration assets. They don't have to be liability matched at all. You'll see any spreads come through below the line because we hold all ours to duration, and it's a very conservatively invested portfolio, primarily in government securities. There's a very small credit exposure in the portfolio.
Thanks very much.
Philip.
Hi, Philip Pepe, Shaw and Partners. Thanks for taking the question. As Ron pointed out, the strategic review took a long time, 12 months or so. Presumably, other growth options may have been put on hold while you're assessing whether or not there's a strategic buyer. Now that that's behind you, do we look to more growth opportunities, organic, inorganic, in the Australian market now that you're no longer distracted?
As part of that process, all of that was actually considered along the way. You know, right, and as sort of outlined last year, the main focus is transforming the business to getting it, we had to launch a complete new product during the year. The near term focus is absolutely on how we accelerate the growth from our existing channels. That's not to say that the business won't, isn't exploring and thinking about other opportunities, whether they be in alternative channels and life insurance or, you know, in terms of retirement products. I know Simon probably best for you.
Yeah. I think there are significant opportunities in the retirement income area, and every superannuation fund has to have a Retirement Income Covenant in place. There is no doubt that Australia is now moving into the deaccumulation phase, having gone through a huge growth in accumulation and superannuation. I think there are also other adjacencies in life insurance that we can consider, corporate life insurance markets and so on. A new platform does allow us to do innovative products like annuities, like our long-term care products, like group life and so on. It does universal life products too. So it has a lot of flexibility. I think the key thing about ClearView today, it has the two things you actually find hard to get in doing new initiatives. It has a platform that has the capability to do it, and it has the licenses to do it too.
Thank you.
Good morning. Stephen Mayne my name. I'm representing the Australian Shareholders' Association, also a significant shareholder in the company. Got a couple of questions for you around the board. Are Michael and Nathaniel here today?
They are online, I think, from memory.
Are they able to answer questions or not?
Uh-
Not sure.
Not sure, to be honest.
They will be able to answer online if you.
Okay. Well, I'd love to pose a question for them. Michael chairs ACL. Nathaniel's on the board of ACL as well. They've had a very significant hack and data breach recently, which they disclosed quite late in the piece. I'd like to ask them what they learned from that and have they brought any learnings to the ClearView board? If there's anything that the ClearView board's aware of in that area that needs to be disclosed.
Sure. I can answer the second part, in that the senior executive team, in particular the technology team have had a session with Crescent on the learnings and issues. Interestingly enough, we've actually got a board meeting after this, and one of the subjects is cybersecurity and the learnings from that particular example. You know, I can speak from my engagement with the executive team. They found what they got out of the discussions with Crescent really useful and tangible benefits that we need to be thinking about. It's not necessarily whether you're secure at the point in time. It's what you do in the event that it potentially happens. That's some of the learnings.
Okay. I guess my second question for both of them as well is around workload. I think Michael's chairing four other ASX companies as well as sitting on the board and also running a private equity firm. So I question how much time he's really got to devote to the operations at ClearView. I noticed in the annual report that he only attended two of the five Rem and Nom committee meetings for the year, and yet I think as shareholders, we probably still paid him his full fees for attending those committee meetings. So I just, you know, question going forward whether we've got enough time and dedication from what I'm sure are very smart and capable guys dedicated to this business.
Yeah. What I will say, the board every year has performance reviews, and the board sets out objectives that we want to achieve with that. You know, I certainly meet regularly with all the directors individually, including Michael and Nathaniel. You know, I'm confident that, you know, his contribution is worthy of him being on the board. But maybe offline, you know, might be something that we can ask Michael.
Sure.
About workloads. You know, I can't really comment on that, only his contribution to our board.
Sure. Final question is just around, you know, your policies around skin in the game for directors. According to the annual report, I think five of the seven directors don't have any significant skin in the game. Now, I'm an investor in the company because I think it's materially undervalued, so it does worry me that other directors don't have any significant holdings. I'm not sure if Michael and Nathaniel have, you know, holdings that aren't disclosed as personal holdings, possibly. I hope that they do. Yeah, just wondering if you've got a policy on that, you know, around your directors in general and some general comments on that.
Just at a high level, we certainly all understand our directors' obligations. One of the challenges we have, and we do have discussions with APRA on this in detail that, you know, they're very concerned when there's a significant shareholder on a board that they might put shareholders before policyholders. They are looking for a balance, and they do wanna see true independent directors. Whilst I might believe ClearView's clearly undervalued, you know, it might change APRA's perspective of me as an independent director, if I had a million shares. You know, it is a big issue for APRA, particularly post a Royal Commission a few years back, that people are looking after policyholders first.
That's kind of that's where our positioning lies on that. You know, that's the number one priority from a government's perspective as opposed to you should have some skin in the game.
Okay. Thank you.
Judilyn, have we received any online questions?
Thanks, Chair. No, we haven't received any online questions.
Okay. As there are no further questions, I will give shareholders one final opportunity to cast their vote, and the poll will be closing shortly. That completes the items of business for today, and I advise that voting will now close on all resolutions. For those attendees in the room, please would you hand your completed voting paper to the returning officer walking around at the moment. I now close the meeting and will announce the results of the poll to the ASX later today. Thank you for your attendance. The board appreciates you taking the time to participate in our hybrid AGM and hope you and your family and loved ones stay safe and well. Thank you very much.