That drive operational scale that supports HUB24 and the industry, and unlocks the power of data to deliver shareholder value through potentially new growth opportunities. That ultimately delivers on our core mission to drive down the cost of advice and make it more accessible for more Australians. And at the same time, we'll remain vigilant to the current and emerging cyber threats in a digital world, ensuring a responsible use of AI. So that's it for me today. Thanks for listening. I'm going to hand back to Jason now, who's going to talk about how our market-leading platform continues to drive multiple sources of value and growth.
Thanks, Paul. Just before we get into the platform, I mentioned earlier that there's a high barrier to entry to solving this productivity issue. And I hope you get a sense of it from what Paul's showing. That Engage feature, unbelievable, only possible from years of investment in the data infrastructure. The AI machine learning capability we've got, only possible from years of investment in the data infrastructure. So it's really hard to follow us quickly.
This is a very unique investment we've made. Okay, the platform. I'm going to focus on a question probably on all your minds: how do we sustain our growth? And for me, there's six big factors that I'm going to focus on. So first, and these are not in any order, first is just the fact that the opportunity for us to grow in our market is so much bigger than it used to be.
Ten years ago, even five years ago, we couldn't attract the type of clients we can attract today through the non-traditional platform market clients. I was having coffee downstairs this morning with a group, a private wealth-type group, probably AUD 5 billion under advice-ish and growing really quickly. Five years ago, I couldn't have had that conversation. Today, we're having a really interesting conversation about how we can help them deliver great services to their clients. It's really expanded. It's expanding in every direction. We're seeing more and more rollovers coming out of industry funds where clients are engaging with their superannuation. They want a personalized experience. They're seeking advice. That money becomes part of our ecosystem, which is great. The SMSF market, very heavily self-directed, traditionally had a CommSec account and Macquarie CMA, etc.
We're increasingly seeing them seeking advice and coming into the platform space, and then we've got the non-traditional stuff, whether it's the non-custody and the alternatives trend that we're seeing. There's a significant demand for assets held directly by the client to be included in the whole package, and they're coming to become clients of ours where we will receive some of the money in custody, but we also report on the rest of the assets held outside, and partly because of the exit of former custodians in our market that used to deal with relatively smaller clients, so the sub-billion-dollar custody market, there's not really a service for them anymore, and so we're having to alter our service, move around a bit to find ways that we can service that market. They're looking for solutions, so it's definitely expanding beyond the traditional platform market.
The second one I want to talk about is the, and I mentioned it before, the move from institutionally owned advice networks to privately owned. And we're really proud of the way we positioned ourselves to benefit really greatly from this trend. And it's been a brutal change. I mentioned before, a dozen years ago, this graph was flipped. It was more like 15% was privately owned. Now it is basically the whole market's opened up to us. And the exit of AMP and Insignia from full ownership of their advice networks continues this trend at pace. So that is absolutely going to help drive our growth. The third one is our sustained growth in advisor numbers: 195 last quarter. We don't see the trend slowing. It's been a really consistent trend that we grow these numbers. And the pipeline is really healthy.
The fourth one on this graph is the increased FUA per advisor. It's doubled in the last four years, and I think a couple of slides coming to explain partly why that is, and so just picking up on that theme, our data shows us that advisors, once they transition to us, they're still writing new accounts with us six years after the initial startup. I think that's to do with the fact that we keep increasing the breadth of our product, being a great solution for more and more of their clients, and I'll cover that on the next slide, so what's the fourth and fifth one is our great relationships. I've mentioned this over and over again. We do have great relationships with the advice networks. We are their partner. We see them ourselves as our partner. They see us as their partner.
We want to get them to the point where they see us as the way they do business. And that's not just on the platform side, but on the tech side as well. And that tech side, the ecosystem is really deepening our relationships with those partners. The great news is those networks we have relationships with, there's a really large cohort of advisors in those networks that currently don't use HUB. We're well-penetrated in those networks, but half the market, we have relationships with the licensee, but they're not currently using HUB. That's a magnificent pipeline for us. Am I behind? I am. I'm sorry, girls.
Talking about the trend of deepening our relationship with the advisor and they're still writing new business for us six years later, I think in part it's the way we broadened out the offer over the journey so that more and more of their client book is relevant or appropriate or it is suitable for those clients to be on a HUB24 solution. Our traditional market was that growing wealth and starting retirement segment. That's been the platform's sweet spot. Those clients that have retirement in the front windscreen, they can see it coming. They seek advice. That's traditionally been a great source of income, oh, sorry, of flows for us. Those starting out retirement, we have great retirement solutions. We've broadened that out significantly.
In part, it was our prediction that the intergenerational wealth transfer that everyone talks about was really starting to happen in the advice networks. It was really important for them to develop relationships beyond the core client they had, but to the other generations. To do that, we needed to pad out the solution, and Discover is an example in core of solutions for a more simple needs client, a cheaper price point, something that's really easy for the advisor to do and administer. So they can catch those clients going through the intergenerational wealth transfer. We've definitely seen that. I'll come back to Discover in a second. Also, we've gone up the curve. I mentioned before, ten years ago, we couldn't have dealt with that ecosystem of clients, whether they're institutions looking for custody, whether they're family offices, the non-custody cohort.
These are really wholesale clients looking for differentiated offer, and that market has been surprisingly under-serviced. You'll find so many family offices running on spreadsheets. Still today, that's the case, and so increasingly, platforms like ours, which they've largely ignored for a really long time, they're coming into the fold saying, "You've actually got something better than what we've got. We really want to engage." So we're seeing real opportunity in that space. I think the retirement income solution as well is something that there's regulatory pressure to be better at retirement. We are a great accumulation system. We're not the best de-accumulation system in the world, and so then the government realizes that they're pushing the industry along this path. You'll see much more over the next few years, I think, in the retirement solution space. Now, that was the five drivers. I mentioned there were six.
The sixth one is everything together. All of that together has created an environment where we have relatively low outflows, so when we think about net flow growth, the other side of the equation is we do have outflows. We're a retirement system. We have payments we must make, so we have relatively low outflows. For me, that is all of those other five factors combined. The one I'll add to that is excellent service. Craig's going to come over and talk about that exact point soon. With those relative outflows, we have built the brick walls to cement those relationships. We keep continuing to invest to build more bricks to keep those clients in. That's absolutely working for us. If I touch on some of these points, I'm going to cover Discover and the alternative assets separately.
I'll just mention SMSF Access quickly. We're just about, well, we just have launched what we're calling version 2.0. This is a very innovative product. It's a combination of the HUB24 platform, the Class administration software capability, and the NowInfinity legal documents capability. We've had to push all that together, and it's been hard to do. It's been hard to change the way that industry works. It's a very manual, laborious, time-consuming industry, so it requires really deep thinking on our part on how we fix that, how we change it, but it's required a change in behavior for advisors as well, so we're really keen on this version 2.0 launch. We've got lots of interest, and our lead indicators are that we're on the right track here, and I'll just mention non-custody quickly, and the big news there, I think, is Engage.
The new reporting capability, it's been really well received. Everyone we've shown it to is delighted. Can't wait to get it. We're in the process of a pilot. But I think that'll really expand this capability of non-custody that we've got today. So looking at alternatives, I don't think I have to preach to this audience the demand for alternatives. It's obviously the industry funds have helped the cause in talking about how they've delivered alpha performance through alternative investments. The advice community is very alive to that. But historically, it's been difficult to get access. These are not generally retail solutions.
But even for wholesale clients, high net worth who may not have a AUD 5 million ticket size to get into these things but do want to get in, it's been really difficult to find good quality content, if you like, at the right price that fits within the ecosystem. And what I mean by that, it works on the platform. It's easy to use. It's got the right liquidity profile. Some lockups are okay, but not permanent lockups in that environment. The other challenge we've seen is a big lack of research. Advisors are used to getting the research delivered to them really easily. It's very accessible. In this space, it's been hard. So the advice community has got demand, but it's been hard to supply. We've taken our time looking at this market. A number of groups we feel have jumped, white label or one exclusive or whatever.
We sat back and had a look at what was going on. We've probably got AUD 4 billion-AUD 5 billion sitting in alternatives today on the platform, but we played no role. They just asked us to list them on our supermarket, and we've done that, so having had a good look at it, we really felt that there was a need to package up these solutions for what I said before. It works within the platform at the right price and with the right liquidity profile, and so that's what we've done. We found a little company called Reach, really early in its development. That actually suited us.
We get the opportunity to build together the future model, and it's early days, but we think there's a real opportunity there, so they'll package solutions from the world's best managers and make them platform-friendly, so a feeder fund kind of model.
We'll facilitate access across our network of advisors. But also importantly, the portfolio managers running managed accounts on our platform, really strong demand in that cohort for these solutions. It won't be exclusive. It won't be, "Thou shalt use Reach." It'll just be, "Where we see gaps, we'll be working with Reach to fill them so those groups can get very nicely diversified portfolios that are in the best interest of their clients." And finally, Discover. So we launched about a year ago. I think it was November last year. Designed for the simple needs clients. We are definitely targeting the traditional old master trusts in our industry that are relatively high cost and not really part of the ecosystem anymore that advisors generally use, but also industry funds. Now, as it's playing out, it's definitely skewed towards superannuation, these accounts. They're obviously a lower balance client.
Think of a AUD 150,000 kind of average, and it's skewed towards superannuation heavily, so 88% superannuation. We expected that. The net flows coming in, more than 50% coming through industry funds. We didn't quite expect that. It's been a bit of a revelation for us, and what it's showing us is advisors were leaving that business behind in dealing with a family, and maybe the kids had an industry fund here or there. They didn't have a product that was very competitive. It was in their best interest to move. We've got that now. We've got a product that clearly competes in that space, and the ideal outcome here is, as those clients grow, and at 11.5% SGCD, these accounts grow quickly, they will move into more complex offers over time, and when they do that, they're in the same product, so you're not losing your insurance.
You're not incurring tax. There's no fees to do that. A new menu just opens up for you, and we're making that easier all the time for the advisor to do that, so we think it's a great product. It's early days for it, but we've had great take-up. Okay, so we will continue to invest in the platform and the service. It underpins those six factors that I mentioned before that are driving sustainable growth and outperformance for us. Part of the brick wall I mentioned is our excellent service. I'm going to hand over to Craig Lawrenson. He's going to tell you all about that. Thank you.
All right. Okay. Look, good morning, everyone. Thanks, Jase.
Yeah, look, it's great to be able to present you today and continue the conversation on the HUB24 platform business and what's been underpinning that leading service proposition and how we've been able to leverage our investment in tech and innovation to really support the strong platform growth that we've achieved over recent years. Yeah, today, I'd like to leave you with three things. The presentation will give about roughly 10 minutes. Firstly, confidence through our focus and ongoing investment in our ability to continue to scale the HUB24 platform business. Confidence that we can leverage our proven skills in platform development, tech, and innovation to drive operational excellence and also drive operational leverage, and really, a combination of those two things.
And really, confidence around continuing to lead today, delivering great service, driving high advocacy across the users that use our platform, which will in turn support new business growth from both existing and new users of the platform. I've been overseeing the customer service function at HUB24 for a little over seven years. And when I started back in, I think it was August 2017, I think we had just under AUD 5 billion in funds under administration. And as you can see from the slide behind me, a lot has changed in that time. And the profile of our business is very different.
We're now a business of significant scale. We're able to leverage our size with over AUD 110 billion in funds under administration, our transaction processing power with AUD 26 billion in gross inflows or over AUD 14 billion in direct equity trades that go to the market.
All the many thousands of interactions that we have with our clients, be that calls or the growing popularity of chats or the other service tasks, certainly gives us a significant baseline or opportunity to continue to invest in that service, really understand what our customers need, make a very meaningful difference in those service interactions, but importantly, it's a great base through productivity measures to drive strong operating leverage across our business. Look, importantly, we've remained incredibly focused, and Jase said, on delivering great customer service whilst we've experienced that unprecedented growth, and whilst we absolutely look forward to continued growth, we can get a lot of confidence from the journey that we've already been on.
Over the last three financial years, as you can see on the slide, you've seen our sort of platform FUA sort of doubling in size, gross inflows more than doubling in size, and our service interactions increased by 100%. Look, through this, we've been able to scale safely, really through our investment in our people. Our people remain an incredibly important part of our service culture. Our investment in operational excellence, our investment in process improvement, robotics, and process automation. The pleasing thing around this is that the way that we've been able to balance those investments has been both awarded and rewarded with market-leading NPS scores and other industry accolades. This is something we're incredibly proud of and obviously look forward to continuing.
So to bring that to life in terms of some of the initiatives and link it back to Paul's presentation, I'd like to sort of showcase now some of the initiatives that we've been undertaking from an operational perspective. And this is largely to increase customer and advisor satisfaction, to improve operating leverage, to increase our service quality and speed, to reduce our cost to serve, and as I mentioned, to scale safely and sort of reduce operational risk. And those investments have been around really sort of two key buckets. One, those client solutions, which are delivering best-in-class solutions and experience for customers, where we really are sort of investing directly into our advisor and investor portals. And the example here I'll be sharing is around the advice fee consent process. And then how we've been leveraging our tech and our innovation lab to drive productivity.
There'll be sort of three examples here. One, around our superannuation administration business. Secondly, how we've leveraged our machine learning tools and built that virtual mailroom for non-custody. And thirdly, just some of the early work we're doing around large language models and AI to support more proactive servicing. The first example is around the advice fee consent process. This was a new rate change that was introduced in July 2022, which effectively required every client every year to reconsent to their advice fees for the prospective year. From a HUB24 perspective, the challenge was pretty clear. That is over 100,000 new consents that needed to be processed as efficiently as possible. From an advisor or licensee perspective, we know that they deal with lots of platforms and have lots of product providers. Their challenge was also pretty clear.
And that is, how can they have one way to run that process for their business and for all the products and platforms that they use? So HUB24, working in collaboration in conjunction with our advisors and licensees, has rebuilt a streamlined advice fee consent process with a range of benefits. Firstly, it's integrated into advisor CRM tools to support licensees having one way to run that process across their business. It's a paperless process. So the actual consent process is integrated into our InvestorHUB portals for the consent process. But it also has flexibility. So if we need pre-populated or pre-validated forms to support the nature of the relationship between the advisor and a client, we can also do that. And the outcomes have been fantastic.
We've had over 80% adoption rates in the first sort of three months, which is driving strong automation benefits from a HUB24 perspective. It's clearly helping advisors with productivity benefits and reducing duplication of processes in their office and obviously increasing their overall productivity. So what we're seeing across all our stakeholders is a higher quality process, a more productive process. We're driving advocacy and lowering the cost to serve from a client perspective. The second example is around our superannuation administration. And as you're probably aware, HUB has enjoyed some excellent growth around the HUB24 Super platform in recent years. And in fact, in FY 2024, we received AUD 11.5 billion in rollover inflows, which sort of ranked us number two for net inflows from a sort of switching perspective.
Over the last couple of years, we've really invested heavily in the superannuation administration experience, which has sort of radically shifted the operational effort, vastly improved the member and advisor experience, and has really allowed us to confidently support the growth in that side of our business, but also the growing demands of a superannuation, a growing superannuation member base. This investment hasn't just been about getting money onto the platform. It's about across all key moments of truth. So if clients need their money, we're allowing them to do that with a minimum of fuss, with some investments around benefit payment processes as well. We've overhauled the process to bring money onto the platform, fully automating this with complete transparency to the number of rollovers, the value of those rollovers, the status of those rollovers, and where the money is coming from.
Again, the benefits have been fantastic. With over 94% STP rates, we're certainly reducing the cost of onboarding new clients and increasing our capacity for growth. We're absolutely making it easier to use our platform and, in this case, bring money onto the platform. The transparency of this process and many others actually reduces the number of calls we receive into the contact center, so it has some value there as well, so again we're improving the user experience. We're building advocacy and reducing our cost to serve. The next example is around how we're leveraging our machine learning and robotic processing capabilities to sort of build a virtual mailroom for our non-custody business. This has a number of commercial use cases across our business. I think Tim will show one of those later on today.
But an important use case in the context of our non-custody business is a very visible, very tangible. And for those that know a lot about non-custody administration, a very real issue, and that is managing all the incoming mail and investment correspondence. A very important part of the value proposition of non-custody is the direct ownership of assets, be that ASX shares, individual HIN, or overseas mutual funds that have been purchased directly. And by virtue of that, there remains a very long tail of investment correspondence that needs to come to HUB24 for processing purposes. And so by using and training our machine learning capabilities to read these documents, we're now able to consume all this correspondence through digital means. We're able to read those documents and understand what it is for and classify it. We're also able to understand who it is for and file it.
It's ready for our administration staff, the advisor, or the client for processing. While this is a very simple example or use case for this technology, it's again incredibly powerful in removing overhead. We've processed over 110,000 or around 100,000 pieces of mail since we launched this back in November 2023. It's certainly reduced the impact of those volume peaks. It's improving the service. It's improving the productivity. It's reducing our cost to serve. The last example I'd like to share relates to our sort of early investment in our large language models and GenAI tools. As I previously mentioned, our strong growth has meant that we've had many, many thousands of interactions with our clients.
A very powerful aspect of these interactions is, in almost all cases, when we get a call, we've had a similar call before, or we get a chat, we've had a similar chat before, or certainly an email task, we've had a similar email task. So there's almost nothing that we haven't had some experience doing from a service perspective in the past.
And so what if we could look backwards and absorb the power of all that experience and hindsight in those transactions and use our large language models to listen to those calls, to read those chats, or read those email correspondence, and then leverage our AI tools to extract the value of all those interactions, really understand when do we get that service interaction perfect, what were the characteristics that made it perfect, and in case where we didn't get it perfect, what are the drivers of that as well? So we've done that. We've done that with 500,000 of our most recent service interactions. And while the process is still in its infancy, the plan is very simple. And that is, how do we sort of package up all the value of that hindsight and experience and provide it to our team members?
So this is absolutely not about driving robotic answers, but feeding our team members with pre-vetted, high-quality answers. We know they are because we've done them before. So this will have a profound impact on the quality of our service, but also have a major impact on reducing the average handle time of each one of those transactions. And what we do know is if we can reduce the average handle time of our transactions, we can increase our capacity for growth by at least the same amount. So again, having a direct impact on better service, but also reducing our cost to serve. So in summary, look, this is all about delivering leading service through our innovation and tech and operational excellence. This is all about creating capacity for future growth that will allow us to scale safely.
This investment will also support our ability to drive operational leverage and improve or expand margins, and I think the most pleasing aspect from my perspective is that we're really at the start of this journey where the technology tools available to us are producing absolutely new scope for service innovation, so thanks for your time today. I think we're going to take a 10-minute break now. When. The time is, what, 11:15 A.M.? So back in about 11:25 A.M. Thanks very much. Thank you.
Just give everyone a minute or so to get settled. All right. We might have one or two more who join us. Thank you, Andrew. I was going to start by actually thanking you for making me wear a tie. As you can imagine, I've got some feedback from my colleagues about that decision, but I'm pleased to join you with the tie. Character building. That's right.
Good morning, everyone. Welcome back. For those I met, my name is Tim Steele, and I'm privileged to lead Class in our NowInfinity business and have done so since the 1st of August 2022, so just over two years. Last year, I sought to demonstrate that we're playing in a visibly and increasingly attractive sector. We have a very clear strategic focus building the future of the wealth accounting administration solutions. We are making real headway, winning the hearts and minds of our clients and the broader wealth accounting sector, that we have tangible growth pathways, opportunities for us to continue to disrupt and grow, and that there are significant opportunities for collaboration across HUB24 to develop better capabilities and new solutions for our clients. This year, I will reinforce some of these points and seek to demonstrate that we're actually making real progress.
Specifically, we're delivering on these opportunities and growing. We're developing new features and functionality for existing products to further entrench our privileged market leadership position, and we're developing new solutions and capabilities in collaboration with our HUB24 and myprosperity colleagues, leveraging those group assets, some of which you've heard about already this morning, and our extensive footprint across the financial advice and wealth accounting profession. I'll be pleased to showcase a couple of examples of some of those new features, functionalities, and new solutions. I wanted to start by giving some context around the growth, some of which you've heard, which I won't belabor, and then talk a little bit about the SMSF market, which, again, you may be very familiar with, but for some, it may be less familiar.
So proudly, over the past couple of years, we've reset client relationships, lifted our profile in the market, sought to better understand the needs of our clients, and then delivered new functionality and enhanced our solutions. I have to say it's very pleasing to see this now flow through to above-market growth, as Andrew mentioned, across Class and NowInfinity, with NI materially outperforming and both businesses delivering consistent, reliable, and sustainable growth. Class is fortunate to have a 31% share of the SMSF market. NowInfinity has a 23% share of the SMSF entity establishment market. And over 100,000 entities, including 66,000 companies, were established on the NowInfinity platform in FY 2024. We have more than 800,000 companies managed on our corporate compliance and Corporate Messenger solution as at the end of September.
Based on some analysis we do, and I'll talk a little bit about our benchmark report in a moment, but we estimate that AUD 340 billion in SMSF assets are administered on Class. In terms of some context around the SMSF sector, and I mentioned Class published its most recent annual benchmark report in September at our Class Ignite conference. This report leverages anonymized Class, ATO, and APRA data and seeks to provide thought leadership and to strengthen and grow the SMSF industry. The SMSF industry is continuing to grow strongly, surpassing 30,000 establishments, in fact, almost 33,000 in FY 2024 for the first time since FY 2017. From the slide, you can see that actually our net establishments will reduce as wind-ups flow through over time.
As of data released, in fact, published yesterday, there are now more than 631,000 SMSFs, and we broke through AUD 1 trillion of superannuation assets in the September quarter, obviously representing more than 25% of the superannuation sector. Using our Class FY 2024 benchmark data, younger generations continue to drive new SMSF establishments. Both Gen X and Millennials are collectively responsible for 81% of all new SMSF establishments, up from 76% in the prior year. The average age of establishment based on our data, which is a little bit older than the ATO, is 49, and for the ATO's, which published most recently its FY 2022 data, that is 46. Both were unchanged from the prior year.
Interestingly, and perhaps not surprisingly, given the performance of markets over the previous year, the average establishment balance grew by 9%, surpassing AUD 500,000 for the first time to an average of AUD 537,000 in assets on establishment. Aligned to our Compliance of the Future initiative, which I touched on briefly last year, we've established a multi-year program of work to deliver new functionality and solutions. Two of those recently released product enhancements are direct registry feeds. We're now connected to three registries: Link Market Services, Boardroom, and Computershare, covering almost 70% of ASX-listed companies, enabling our clients to expedite their admin and ensuring a streamlined audit and timely tax lodgment. We're proud to be the first in market to obtain ownership details from the registries, saving our clients time in account verification.
We've also automated the retrieval of holding balances and provided a seamless user experience, allowing clients to connect with ease. We're going to continue to deepen our integrations with our registry partners and anticipate adding Automic to deliver even greater automation with 99% coverage of ASX-listed companies. Our second exciting product release, which is really a step change in functionality for us and the industry, is directly sourced document feeds. Sourcing and collating relevant documents to support the annual SMSF audit process is a time-consuming and administratively burdensome task for our clients. As an industry first, we've expanded our Direct Connect data feeds to also include sourcing documents directly from financial institutions. Understandably, we started with HUB24. Macquarie is now also providing their CMA statements directly to Class where an active data feed exists.
These documents will be periodically auto-collected, securely stored, and tagged for the easy collation of year-end work papers directly into Class's document management system. We're working with a number of institutions who are keen to also join the list of providers to help support the end-to-end simplification of administration. We've talked a little bit about growth across the business already, but I wanted to talk specifically about the growth levers for Class and NowInfinity as a software-as-a-service business. Our volume growth is really about how do we help support growing our market share. So we have exposure, as I've touched on already, to structurally growing markets, which means when our clients win, we win and continue to grow market share. And then we seek to win new clients through our further product differentiation and our increased market presence.
And then where appropriate, we seek to extend our number of products per customer and broaden that relationship, leveraging our Class Super, Class Trust, and Class Portfolio solutions, as well as NowInfinity's Corporate Messenger and our legal doc solutions. We also seek to grow our APU, or average revenue per unit. This is really underpinned by our value-enhancing product features and innovation. Again, an example of that is the program of work we're delivering related to our Compliance of the Future initiative, which ultimately supports us to justify price increases, including a 5% price increase for all Class solutions that was effective on the 1st of July this year, and an increase in our Corporate Messenger pricing from AUD 10- AUD 12 per company effective on the 1st of January this year.
There's also an opportunity for us to have, particularly in the NowInfinity business, subscription upgrades, moving through the pricing tiers as our clients continue to grow and demand more from us, and then also transitioning our extensive footprint across our PAYG solutions, and again, where appropriate, have them take on a subscription solution for our legal documents, and then we start to think about new solutions and partnerships. How do we create new products and new markets? Craig touched on Virtual Mailroom, which I'll speak to in a moment. That's an example of a new product that we've identified that we think we can take to market, solving a problem for our clients, and then capturing additional revenue from our existing customer relationships and delivering additional revenue through generation of new functionality within the app.
Two examples of recent capabilities that we've just rolled out in beta are our property title search and property valuations and/or our ecosystem with integration partners. An example of that is extending that beyond what we currently have today with an example of our actuarial certificate providers. Then we start to think about how do we leverage our data capabilities and myprosperity more broadly, which I'll touch on in a moment. Reinforcing Jason's points, we have an enviable market position with over 6,500 client relationships across both Class and NowInfinity for our accounting firms and specialist SMSF administrators. Add to that HUB24's and myprosperity's extensive market position in financial advice. There is an enormous opportunity for growth, which we're only now just starting to leverage.
A couple of the new solutions that I wanted to touch on that bring together and leverage some of our group capability. And we've developed this internal Virtual Mailroom that Craig referenced into a commercial product and have recently initiated a pilot program with a select group of Class clients. And the team informed me this morning, I think we've got a waiting list of another 13 clients wanting to get onto the pilot. The VMR, as we call it, will be a standalone product within Class and addresses a real problem for many accounting and advisory firms who are handling a significant number of incoming documents on a daily basis. This particular issue was really uncovered through some think tanks we did around compliance of the future, and we talked about our anticipation of launching document feeds.
They explained that there was a much broader problem than just the documents, and we started to apply and turn our mind to how we would seek to solve VMR into that issue. So the VMR, as Craig touched on, is designed to securely handle mail from end clients, whether that's physical or email, through a streamlined and automated process. It uses the latest in AI and machine learning and state-of-the-art language models to classify each document to the correct client and categorizes the type of document, reducing the cumbersome and manual effort and enhancing the protection of client data. The purpose of the current pilot that we've rolled out is to validate both the operational and commercial scalability of the solution. Class Client Portal.
We know from investment trends research that 69% of SMSF accountants anticipate that they will take action in the near term in how they engage with their customers to reduce their cybersecurity risk, some of the same issues that Jason highlighted for financial advisors. The new Class Client Portal powered by myprosperity focuses on simplifying engagement and enabling our clients to communicate securely with their clients. It also provides more flexibility for our e-signing providers as well as the flexibility clients have long been asking for from us, which is the choice and control over which widgets they would like to make available to their clients via the portal.
With integrated e-signing capabilities with now multiple providers, advanced security, and the ability to manage client interactions in one place, this portal ensures that our secure client engagement, client data is protected, and facilitates seamless collaboration across professionals, reducing, again, the further risks associated with emails. We've designed this solution to make our clients more efficient, more secure, and ultimately more connected with their clients. We've started with Class, rolling out a beta also at our Class Ignite conference in September, but we are eager to do the same for NowInfinity. As I hope is evident and the story is coming together and consistent across the various presentations, we are very fortunate to have a unique set of market-leading capabilities across HUB and a broad and deep relationship footprint across both the financial advice and wealth accounting sectors.
We're developing a blueprint for the next generation of solutions, leveraging these capabilities and the footprint to fuel further growth. myprosperity gives us a very unique opportunity to extend Class solutions to a new market while enhancing their value proposition. An example of that is how we would power Class Portfolio can provide ultimately a portfolio balance and/or tax reporting service through to myprosperity end clients. We've commenced engaging with our clients, and Jason mentioned the think tank that we held in Melbourne a couple of weeks ago with half a dozen of our clients who are already Class Portfolio users, and the purpose of that was clearly for us to start to get their feedback on what they needed us to do differently and how we could bring together this capability.
I have to say, reassuringly, following a demonstration of Engage and consistent with Paul's insights, we validated our hypothesis that combining the capability of myprosperity, the Engage reporting capability as a reporting utility across the group and Class Portfolio has the potential to create a market-leading investment reporting and non-custody solution. It's been a pleasure to share some of our progress with you today. I hope that you'll agree that we've demonstrated that Class and NowInfinity are strong and growing businesses, that we are truly innovating again. We're developing new solutions and functionality for existing products to further entrench our privileged position in the market. We're developing new solutions and capabilities in collaboration with our colleagues across HUB. And we're making real progress to deliver on our ambition and strategy to positively shape the wealth accounting industry.
It's my pleasure to hand over to our CFO, and even more impressively, she doesn't know what I'm going to say here, a superstar rower, Kitrina Shanahan.
Cool. Thanks, Tim. So morning, everybody. As most of you know, I'm the CFO for HUB24, and I'll be talking to you a bit about our financials and how our strong competitive position and effective execution of our strategy has translated into strong momentum and outperformance you can see in our financial results. I'll also talk about how our strong conviction on growth supports our confidence in achieving or outperforming our current FUA guidance and how our approach to capital management enables us to continue to invest for this growth. Okay. So as the team have talked about throughout the morning, HUB has been very intentional and selective in participating in high-value parts of the market. We work closely with our customers to ensure our strategy is aligned with delivering into their needs and delivering solutions that work for our customers and their underlying clients.
You've seen a few demonstrations of those that the team have given you this morning. This has translated to ongoing sustainable and scalable growth. The platform part of the business, as you've heard, is the largest growth engine and delivers close to 80% of the group's revenue. Strong FUA growth has translated into similar revenue and underlying EBITDA outcomes, with the four-year trend for all three having a compound annual growth of between 40% and 50% that you can see on the slide here. With close to 8% of platform's market share, there's still a significant runway to grow this part of the business and continue to scale the business, driving improvements in underlying EBITDA margins while continuing to invest in our strategy.
The technology solutions business, with Class being the bulk of that business, is also included in the revenue and the underlying EBITDA results that you can see here, and as Tim talked about, continues to outperform the SMSF and the corporate compliance sector. So we're very confident in the trajectory of this business and where it's going. Our approach to the customer lifecycle across the whole of the business and the continuing evolving needs of advisors, licensees, and accountants that the teams have talked about underpins the quality of our footprint and our earnings. And as you can see, you would have seen our quarterly results, and the team have shown you some of the stats. The multilevel momentum has continued into full year 2025, and we had a great first quarter, and that's continued into the second quarter.
The custody FUA had grown close to AUD 92 billion at the end of September, which was driven by positive markets and industry-leading net inflows of AUD four billion for the first quarter, and as I was mentioning, we've seen that momentum continue right throughout this financial year. Large migrations have continued with AUD 1.5 billion of the EQT large migration has migrated and completed in October, and there's a further close to AUD 1 billion that's expected to complete migration in the second half of this year. The support of the industry continues with licensees and advisors choosing HUB24 as their preferred platform.
As people have talked about earlier today, 44 new distribution agreements were signed in the first quarter and 195 net new advisors taking the total advisors actively using the HUB24 platform to just over 4,700, which continues the pipeline, continues the growth, and gives us confidence that we will continue to deliver the outperformance that we've done to date. FUA guidance for full year 2026 is AUD 115 billion-AUD 123 billion, supported by organic net inflows of over AUD 11 billion each year, large migrations like the EQT ones that I've talked about and completing that in the second half of this year, and stable growth in investment markets. The current runway, and quite a number of you have mentioned it to me, the current runway could see us outperform this target. However, there are macro events that could happen, and we'll see what happens with the investment markets if they continue.
So at the moment, we're watching how this progresses, but we're not going to be making any changes for the moment. Okay. So you've heard some examples of how we continue to invest to enhance the momentum and the opportunity that's ahead of us, and we're able to continue to deliver the high levels of growth that we've historically been able to deliver. HUB24 has a strong balance sheet with relatively low regulatory capital requirements that enables capital flexibility to continue to support and deliver on our strategy and provide shareholder returns through both capital, capital growth, and dividends. Over the last four years, dividends have grown to a CAGR of 53% with similar underlying earnings growth per share. The group's demonstrated strong correlation of our underlying EBITDA results compared to our operating cash flows.
We had over 90% converted to cash flows in full year 2024, and because of this, we're confident that we'll continue to increase the capital flexibility of the group. I've listed a number of things here for the uses of the capital. We have a dividend payout ratio for the group between 40% and 60% of underlying profits. We have the potential for small bolt-on acquisitions, as Jason talked about with the Reach Alternative Investments that we've done. We've got the servicing of the employee share schemes, and we do this by purchasing HUB24 shares on market, and this removes the potential for dilution by us issuing shares to service the scheme. There's ongoing investment, as we've talked about, to harness the opportunity and continue to grow the business. I've included here there's potential for regulatory capital requirements changes.
APRA are currently looking at the operational risk financial reserve in super funds. Should that come through and HUB24 need to lift that reserve, we have more than sufficient cash balances in addition to all the other things that we've listed out to actually be able to cover for this. So we're in a good position with our balance sheet and the capital, and we remain confident to be able to continue to invest and deliver the strategy that's been outlined today. Okay, and finally, I don't know whether people love or hate this. People obviously love it for their models. So with the ongoing investment that we've been doing and the acquisitions that we've completed over the last couple of years, and those acquisitions have given us the foundations to actually be able to deliver and move forward with the integrated wealth technology and platform solutions.
Here, I've provided a refresher of the expected financial outcomes for the depreciation and amortization. You would have seen at the year-end that we had cash capitalization across both the platforms and tech solutions when you added it together of about AUD 21 million. When you roll this forward, we're expecting similar levels in full year 2025 for the cash capitalization. Underlying depreciation and amortization, which excludes the acquired software and customer relationships, is expected to be between AUD 19 million and AUD 21 million in full year 2025. As I mentioned, with the cash capitalization remaining around AUD 21 mil. Acquisition-related amortization will be around AUD 26 million in full year 2025, and we've provided a schedule there into the future so that this will help you with your financial modeling. Cool. That is it from me.
I think we are now going to go to a wrap-up from Andrew and then Q&A. Cool. Thank you.
Thank you, team. So in summary, I only really have one slide, and we are happy to open up for Q&A. So if you've got questions, we'd love to take them. We've got some roving mics walking around the room as well. But as you can see, hopefully, we've succeeded today in outlining to you the great position we have to capitalize on significant growth opportunities and growth opportunities that support each other, creating long-term value for customers and shareholders. We do operate in large, structurally growing market segments with demand for integrated solutions. We are positioned really well to deliver that strong growth. We're absolutely leveraging that footprint. And some of those demonstrations today and the chat the team had hopefully give you some color on how those things can work together.
Even from Craig talking about what we're doing with digital mail and how we're thinking about how we can sell that solution into client groups to help them with productivity is an example of how we're working to bring innovation to transform productivity in industry and meet a need that will make our clients look good, as Jason said, with branding and so forth, but make them look good with their clients, but actually entrench and embed relationship with us and advocacy for the success of all of our businesses. And we have scalable operations that are growing well, enabling us to both expand EBITDA margin, and I'm sure there'll be questions about that along the way, but at the same time, invest and reinvest in growing the business.
So we've managed to get the tension right between the accelerator and the brake, as I say, or continue to deliver ongoing margin expansion whilst continuing to invest to lead change, strengthen our proposition, and extend our lead in the marketplace to take advantage of that structural segment growth that we've got in this industry. So without further ado, thank you very much. I'll hand over to questions. I think James Cordukes is going to join me up here at some point. We may have some questions from online as well, but we're happy to take them. I will lead this and then get various members of the team up for us to answer. I think you're coming up here, folks, yeah, to make sure we get the questions answered, but please feel free to jump on in.
And if you could help us out by just mentioning your name and where you come from when we say the question, that would be great. Thank you. Don't you want to sit next to Jason?
You can stay up on the chair.
Yeah, strong foundations for growth. Okay.
It's Bob Chen from J.P. Morgan. Just a question. I mean, we've obviously seen a lot of demos around new products, a lot of investment in efficiency as well. How should we, as investors, measure success in these other areas of investment, which is a little bit outside of what we traditionally think about the business for, which is sort of that platform segment?
You've got anecdotally, and I say this, you've got growth in flows and inflows. So I would attribute some of the growth in our flows and the fact that we've been traveling at great records, great levels, to be that strategy and a lot of advocacy from advisors and users selecting HUB24 because of that strategy and now we're taking them on a journey. As well, you should see, and we're hoping to see, in fact, the run rate coming out of tech solutions in the second half, I think, was 4% higher than the first half, even though year on year, the AUD 21.1 million in EBITDA was fairly flat. That run rate coming out was better. So we've actually looked at the cost base there, but we've got better economics coming out of that.
And over time, our view is that we will create significant shareholder value with that second strategy. So you'll see that diversified revenue stream grow and EBITDA contribute more to the overall group success. So that's how I'd measure the success of that, but it isn't on its own. It is also across the platform business. Jason and Kit, if you wanted to add to that.
I mean, I think the only thing I would say is that it is the foundations. As Andrew was talking about, Class and tech solutions now are finally performing very well. They are single-digit growth compared to the platform, which is obviously double-digit growth and the driver of the growth. But it actually provides the foundations for the next wave of strategy that we're implementing and creating those diversified revenue streams.
Yeah. So just to follow up on that, so are we sort of expecting a bit of an inflection point or acceleration in growth in that tech solutions business from here?
Once we execute on the strategy and we continue to deliver on that, that's absolutely the plan.
The measures we have, which are not necessarily published, will be how many products a customer might use. You're thinking about cross-sell, if you like, and thinking about recurring revenue coming out of that business and how much revenue you get per year in that business or per customer. They're the things we're tracking, and they're alluded to in some of the other mechanisms in the long-term incentive scheme for executives. So some of the lead indicators we will measure in the business, but you should see over time as strategy executes, both businesses grow in terms of their contribution in dollar terms.
Yeah. And then maybe just a final one, if I may. Just on the margin efficiency or the operational efficiency, it seems like this pack had a little bit more focus on that aspect of the business. I mean, is that something that we should be thinking about when we're modeling this business, a bit of a step up in sort of the margins in the next few years?
I think that definitely there is more benefit in investing in automation in a business of this size than there was previously. So certainly, our attention is there to support the ongoing growth as well as to certainty, quality, customer service, and those sort of outcomes for which we receive accolades. It's all tied up in those sort of outcomes. So yes, at a level, you would think it's delivering more EBITDA or more efficiency in that business, but at the same time, we are investing. So in terms of how that plays out, our goal is to continue to expand margins. However, we could expand margins far faster had we not been investing. So it's hard to bifurcate that, Bob.
The reality is we intend to do both and invest and not bring all of that efficiency to a bottom line as such, but to invest for the future. On an underlying basis, yes, it's creating more productivity in those businesses, but we are reinvesting.
Thanks.
Hi, Andrew. Cameron Halkett at Wilsons. In the presentation, the high net worth segment was an area you're increasingly interested in, but I think Jason might have been sort of a little bit behind time, so kind of sped through it a bit quickly. But can you just talk about the distribution team's focus on this area of the market previously, today, and perhaps where it's going into the future? How key is this subcohort for you, for your future growth?
I might make an opening comment, then let Jason finish if we felt he had some time restrictions. We have been in the high-net-worth market for a very long time. And so whilst we might be increasing focus there, we are, and we do have a large footprint through some large marquee clients and have been. However, our approach has been a broader set of solutions across many life stages, across many different segments, as opposed to a focus on one segment, as some others previously announced. So there's a bit of confusion about that. We are there. There's more to do, and there's things we can do to enhance our proposition there. But I'll hand it to you, Jason, and then we can cover off with the distribution team focus.
Yeah. We have on the platform today, and actually for a long time, we've had a significant proportion of wholesale clients that tagged wholesale. But today, we have a retail product that has some wholesale features. So we're increasingly looking at, and you'll see in the top of that diagram, there was a wholesale discretionary account segment, and we've probably inherited most of that from the Xplore acquisition. But we're increasingly integrating that capability into the core HUB platform. And as we pad that out, and I'm going to clarify what I said before. Somebody at the break came up and said to me, "Oh, you're one of five billion-dollar clients." No, I was having a coffee. And this is a.
Coffee, five billion? I'm trying to be confused.
Normally, that's all it takes. But anyway. But what we're increasingly.
Go ahead.
So we've always covered those advice businesses that have a few clients in that cohort, and we've been really good at that. And through acquisition or development, we've also got some significant clients who focus on that cohort. But as we develop more and more, we're finding that groups that in the past may have said avowedly, "I will never use a platform," are getting to the point where they're going, "Actually, you're the only solution that makes any sense. If we're going to grow, we're going to scale, we're going to keep our clients safe, we're going to deliver a great service to really important clients, we basically need to adopt the capability you've got." So what I feel is happening is we keep building down that path, building capability that we're relating to the general populace of advisors that are already users.
That's great for the existing client base. But there's a whole new markets opening up, like that coffee this morning, which I don't think that's unusual. We're getting a lot of those conversations happening. It's the family office, private client businesses that are just not connected into the platform space in the past. We are absolutely in those conversations. Now, that doesn't mean we'll get all of that money. They might say, "This is only relevant for a cohort of my clients." We may not even go forward. They might stay on their existing systems in-house. But it's just great that we're in those conversations, and it shows us the opportunity that exists and the investment we can make to gather more of that opportunity.
So we actually have a segment in our sales team, to answer the other part of the question, which is focused on broker and high-net-worth segments. So there are a team of people who focus on those kinds of clients at an institutional and an advisor level. And that has been a function in our sales team for quite a few years now and looks after some of those marquee clients, being Westpac Private as well as Evans and some brokers, and certainly looking for those types of opportunities. And I think as we develop kit or functionality, we're actually expanding the addressable market for hub and maybe the entire industry in terms of how a platform can be used. As we quite often say, a platform today is not what it was yesterday, and tomorrow it'll certainly be different again. Perfect. Was that answer for you?
Yeah. Extremely helpful. On the other end of the spectrum, you gave a bit more color on how Discover is going. Again, a bit more of a smaller account size focus solution. The comment about the volume of inflow coming in from industry funds is quite interesting, Jason. I mean, I guess a little bit of the challenge for HUB24 for Discover is you need to rely on those advice clients having a son, daughter, whoever, who perhaps at that stage of their life would take Discover. But if HUB24 hypothetically over the medium or longer term could get access to these people at a much younger age, you're not having a client on platform at middle age. I don't want to put a number on things, but you know what I'm saying here.
If you can get access to a much larger cohort of people and build their wealth from a low base all the way up to retirement, how do you solve for that issue given restrictions around perhaps advice today?
Yeah. Well, there's two parts to that. One is that advisors absolutely deal with households, so not generally an individual, and in that household, they increasingly, what I'm seeing with quality advisors, they're going up and down generation, so estate planning is a huge issue. Often the parents who are a successful middle-aged couple may have parents that didn't ever see an advisor, and yet when they look at their whole wealth situation, the estate planning is really important to go up and down, and the advisor is absolutely aware that if they don't do this at that point when that client moves on, they're not going to keep the money going forward, so they're absolutely looking at the household. The more we can satisfy both up and down generations in terms of a product solution, the more of that advisor's book we'll get.
And I think the market's been screaming out for products for those kinds of clients. And the advisors know that one day they're going to inherit the money. So those accounts not only will grow quickly on their own steam through SGC contributions, but they'll have big licks at some point. And my personal experience is exactly the same. My advisor, I watched him get my kids in, explain financial well-being to them, and it was a great process to witness, actually, and how good my advisor was with that and knowing that if I get hit by a bus, there's one number to call, my advisor. So I think advisors are really aware of that situation.
They really want a solution where they can get the kids under the wing quickly rather than leaving them out there in industry funds and being subject to their advisors talking to those kids and getting them on a different path. So it's just a no-brainer for us to go that way, but also the other way. And I like the way it balances the book out. We don't skew too far one way or the other. We want both.
I might add to it that there's more to it than just that because it is actually giving advisors an opportunity to deal with other clients. And if they can do it more efficiently, they've been turning some clients away. So certainly, the estate planning piece is key.
My planner has family meetings with my children deliberately for that reason, which I find a bit uncomfortable from time to time. But that's a sensible thing for the intergenerational wealth transfer. There are advisors who have been turning away customers or have used other platforms for that cohort of clients. And in some cases, they've gone, "I don't have a solution. I'm going to jettison them." And others are saying, "You mean I can use that on hub?" So there are multiple sources of growth for Discover, but it's one plank of an overall whole life cycle set of solutions, even back to your earlier question of high-net-worth. It's about having the different capabilities to have a manufacturing capability you can take to multiple segments to deal with that. And there's other options there, as you might have alluded to.
There are opportunities to look at that from a different distribution capability, not necessarily through advice. It's not where we're going, but it's nice to have those options as well, that said.
Thanks.
Nick.
Excuse me. Nick Burgess from Ord Minnett. Just another question for Jason on the Discover platform. So some of the data in terms of the addressable market, Jason showed substantial addressable markets through industry funds or master funds. Just to follow up that conversation, are other channels an opportunity for the Discover platform, direct or the workplace channel at all?
Look, not on the radar. We are avowedly intermediated. There are models forming that are, let's call them non-personal advice, might be general advice, or scaled personal advice. And if QAR comes through, if the regulations ever get passed, we might see some other models that come through. And I think the Discover product is very well placed to service those markets. We have some advice firms that we're in partnership with that are actively creating new segments of their business to target clients at a lower balance. It might be a combination of a mortgage insurance annual super. And again, Discover's in that conversation. They really like it for that cohort. So yeah, I do think it will expand, but we have no plans to go direct, and workplace is not on the agenda. We go workplace with an advisor who's targeting that segment.
And so I guess the following question is, you're confident that just through the advice channel that the target market or the addressable market for Discover is still substantial enough without taking those alternate channels to market?
Yeah. Well, we know from the transitions of an advisor's book to our platform, we mentioned that six-year process. It's wrong. Yeah, there's the sweet spot of larger balances, complex needs that we get straight away. We've left behind. We know we've left behind over the journey lots of MLC, MasterKey, Colonial First Choice, the master funds that have been around for a very long time now and are okay products. But I think there's a next generation of those products that we think are much better for clients. So that's within the industry, within that platform segment. But then, as the numbers show, we're getting money from outside the segment as well.
The horizons are great for us with the current focus. We know what we're good at, and we're focused there, and absolutely, Nick, you're right. You could extend out with other methods, but with the dynamics in the industry and the success rate we've got and the focus of working with our customers, that's our focus.
Okay. Just a second question around myprosperity going back to the start of the presentation. So not sure if this is right, but my sense is that myprosperity is now playing. There's a little more emphasis on myprosperity or a little bit more importance, the term single access point for the entire HUB24 product suite. So is there a change of emphasis there? Is myprosperity playing a little bit more important role than maybe six or twelve months ago? And if that's the case, is there any sort of change in implications for the revenue model or revenue opportunity for that piece?
I think we're talking about it more, but the mindset and the strategy is the same. In fact, we presented those slides, and we purchased the business as it being a bookend to the platform and other parts of the business. It's just that we're executing, and you're seeing more of it, and we're coming more alive to those possibilities and opportunities in our business, so nothing's really changed in terms of the strategy. In fact, we've deviated on some of our execution because we think that opportunity is larger and more important to have that as a front end with those sort of authorities, but it was certainly in our heads and our minds as to a rationale for the acquisition, but did you want to add further?
Yeah. Look, it was always the plan. We may not have articulated it as clearly as we did today. But the investment we're making in myprosperity is clearly along that path. We're scaling it up to go from 500 to 5,000 practices. That means a different way we onboard and support and the infrastructure required to support it. So that's all coming to fruition now. Class as the first cab off the rank, as Tim showed you today, and HUB24 be closely followed behind it.
Yeah. And so as you execute, just any update in terms of the revenue opportunity or the revenue model as you hit more and more potential clients with that piece of technology?
Yeah. So we expect Class Portal powered by myprosperity is a free part of the Class environment. You get it for your Class clients. But if you want to upgrade it to use for your whole practice, you want to use some of the other great features of the tool, there's an upgrade path to do that.
Thank you.
No worries.
Hello. George Kurian from Oracle Investment Management. You mentioned about the market share gains. As of now, you have 7.7% market share. You said you are well positioned for market share gains longer term. What would be a reasonable estimate or a medium term?
That's of the market that is researched as the platform market, which we don't think is our addressable market, but that's money on platform. Look, you've got other incumbents who've been up to 20%. You had Westpac up to 20% market share before. There are less participants that are succeeding in that market. Over time, I don't think that's unreasonable, but that's a big lump from where we are now. Current market leader, which isn't winning awards but has got about 19% because of their consolidation of other assets, they're at 19%. We tripled our market share over the last four years and the last three years from 4%- 7%. I don't think it's unreasonable to think you can get up in the teens fairly quickly and beyond depending on execution. I think the market will grow as well.
Hi, Andrew. It's Siraj from Citi. I have a few questions, but just first, I want to take a step back. Looking at the AUD 7 trillion slide that you have in terms of the addressable market, if you just change it to a revenue opportunity, can you just talk us to what that would look like? Because I'm not sure you can actually monetize that the outside, the platform side. Could you just help us with how you think about monetizing that 7 trillion?
Do I have a model that converts that to revenue? Probably not. And the revenue.
But we're just a high level. How do you think?
Look, I might head over to the team as well, but I think there's a huge opportunity for revenue upside if we can more than double the size of the business. And then you're adding to that incrementally. What we don't talk about is what the possibilities of distribution of that tech business might be. If you're putting software and technology in the hands of households and getting closer to customers, and they become paying users of a utility that actually creates value, you've got the potential to earn large amounts of revenue from small units that actually creates embedding. So we haven't talked about revenue models in that way, Kit, or disclosed that.
We haven't talked about it or disclosed it, but I suppose there's a couple of things in Suraj's question because there's also the off-platform funds under administration that Jason sort of talked about is now the solution is better for them in this day and age. So I guess part of that question, Suraj, is, well, given they're probably larger scale and simpler to service, does the revenue margin on that, is that a bit lower? But ultimately, because you've got lower cost to serve, your underlying EBITDA margin is broadly the same as, say, the custody fee. That's one way to think about some of the opportunity that Jason was talking about. And then there's other things like there was the non-custody piece and the fact that the Engage reporting is making that more attractive. And again, what's the commercial model around that? What's the take-up for that?
What advocacy does that give you for the momentum that comes onto the platform? So we certainly haven't disclosed. We've obviously got some ideas on what might be additional upside that might come through, but you're not going to see material changes on the platform side revenue margin in the next 12-24 months or so. But then again, on the tech solution side, when you look at the opportunity that we've talked about, we have obviously internally got some ideas as to how would you monetize that, but that'll get disclosed as and when we.
But you're right. You can't actually do straight math on the bottom line and say, "What does it look like in terms of percentage margins?
Yeah. The reason I'm asking is I think Jason at some point had mentioned maybe tech solution could actually be bigger than the whole platform side as well. Maybe.
But that's not guidance or a forecast.
No, it's not guidance. I'm just saying perspective is a great show statement because we love being aspirational here.
Yeah. But just trying to understand, is that still?
I'll take your phone, Damon.
All right. Moving on.
It could be. It could be.
I'll give you one example of how to think about it. So if you think about Class, we've got 34% of effectively the superannuation assets in the market of the trillion dollars are administered on our platform. 23% of those assets we know are advised today. Therefore, 77% aren't advised. We're a very unique business in terms of our access to markets and potential investment solutions. How do we think about, and do we think about at some point, creating access for those end trustees and investors to tap into the power of capability across the group? It's but one example of how we think about the broader ecosystem and opportunities to monetize it.
Lovely. That's actually a great segue because I think there's still confusion about acquiring Class and how that helps the HUB core custody platform. So you said there's AUD 340 billion, I think, under Class that's been administered. No, as in there's AUD 340 billion under that Class system.
It's like a registry system.
Registry system. Just keen to understand how any update on that actually moving to HUB24 or actually capturing that? How are you thinking about that? Because SMSF Access seems early. It's still not its version two. Just keen to understand how you're thinking about that.
SMSF Access isn't actually trying to pick up those clients, so it's establishing new accounts, generally with younger or with the family members of advisors that need simpler solutions, and we've just launched version two, and I think we've got 90 or 100 advisors now saying they'll use it or using it, and it is starting to grow. In terms of update on the option you've got there, well, there isn't an update other than there's an opportunity there to capture, and we're thinking about that. Since we talk about the strategy today, that you've got clear initiatives that we're working on, but that is the potential in the business to unlock the value, and that's part of the strategy, so over time, we'll look at that.
So putting myprosperity on the front of Class is a good first step to do that because it makes Class more usable and then opens you up to those sort of opportunities to suggest other ways of helping that group. Tim, are you comfortable with that?
I am. And I think the other strategic context, and it sort of went to Bob's question as well, which was if you think about these two very distinct markets of accounting and financial advice, Australians are effectively going either to an accountant, if you seek advice, either an accountant or an advisor for some type of advice related to tax structuring or ultimately investment advice. We know and are seeing, and you have to believe, I think, that there's continued convergence of both accounting and wealth advice. And increasingly, we are dealing with clients who want to deal with us both from a Class perspective and/or a platform perspective. And in some cases, the relationship initiated out of Class. In some cases, the relationship initiated out of HUB24. So there is also strategic context and where we think the market's ahead of it as well.
It's creating growth for us already, but not necessarily linked. And there is a lot to do. And absolutely, there's a lot to do. And our shift in talking more about the strategy is because the opportunity is there. At the same time as having broken records in the platform space, we will continually pivot to get the best value and to think about how we take all those opportunities. So it is a journey, and there's more to do. Yeah.
Please, Jason.
Suraj, the Class in its own right is a great business. It is also we kept on coming back to the access to quality data. Class has, in our view, the best quality portfolio information in the industry. Every platform, broker, and bank is represented in there. Tim showed today how we're expanding that list of data feeds that we get to pad that out. Great data feeds, portfolio data feeds, a tax engine that covers not just what we hold on the platform, but the whole gamut of wealth. A book of records that is really good at reconciling that data, effectively a general ledger, and then driving performance and tax reporting.
So those constituent parts, if we were to run this ecosystem and say, "We want to drive into this market and deliver great products like the combination of myprosperity, Class Portfolio, and Engage," we would either have to buy or build that stuff. And we chose to buy. Those data feeds take 10 to 15 years to get in place or the agreements, the IP behind them. The tax engine is not an easy build. And the book of records, there's only two or three of those in the industry that actually work really well. So I think the first question I got when we bought Class was, "Why didn't you guys build it?" I mean, 15 years of development. We back ourselves. We might be able to do it in 12, but I'm not waiting that long. So it is a good business in its own right.
It's growing above system. We've got some great plans for it, but those pieces of the puzzle are so important to the whole ecosystem, and we are leveraging.
We did debate how much of that to put in the pack, and there were some hints to it in some of Tim's slides and Jason's slides, but you're narrowing in on the question. There are those possibilities in that capability set which we are intending to leverage over time.
Got it. Just last question. In terms of the distribution agreements, just two-part question. Just 44, it was a good number. Just how does that convert to advisors? How much time does that take when you win one of those agreements? And secondly, I think if I look at the data, since 2019, you've announced 600-some or so distribution agreements. Is there more to go in terms of the agreements?
There's certainly more to go because we're picking up the 40.25. It's not indicating that you're reaching an equilibrium or a saturation point. In some cases, they're single advisor practices. In some cases, there's two or three. They're not as often large groups, except for when we talk to you about having one large group that might represent hundreds of advisors. Typically, we have agreements with all those groups across the country. Hence, our footprint or access, the ability to access up to 8,000 advisors through existing agreements. So in some cases, it translates to a single advisor or a small business. In other cases, to larger. But there's more to go. We reported as a lead indicator of conversion of FUA because you know then that advisors have chosen or licensing has chosen, which means you're going to get advisors authorized to use the platform.
That number was 195 for the quarter. They're good indicators to say that in our model, the growth compounds. You get ongoing flows over a number of years from existing advisors. There's more to come. And so we're not tapped out yet. In fact, you'd argue, why hasn't that occurred with an advisor base that shrunk from 25,000 to 15,000? Why are we still growing in a linear or a hockey stick-type fashion in a shrinking market? That's the result of the platform, the advocacy, the market dynamics, the lack of compelling solutions. There's more to go.
Hi. It's Nick Basile from CLSA. Just a question on technology. I'm interested in how we should think about the defensibility of the broader tech platform. How much of those productivity-focused functions and features that you've built, such as document management or RPA, for example, are based on internally developed code versus partnering with third parties? I think that speaks to the longer-term competitive advantage that you may be able to leverage and potentially also margin. So just interested in that.
Certainly, and we'll answer it as a team, but certainly the demonstration you saw today of HUBConnect Licensee and the underlying capability and technology behind that to take unstructured documents and turn them into data is our IP. We've developed that ourselves for the Virtual Mailroom as well. So we have our own innovation lab that's built that IP that others just don't have. And the use case for that and the potential use cases for that have not even been explored. And we're talking to many licensees, in fact, large national groups as they become bigger and they're looking for solutions. It's becoming more relevant and a more concentrated sales opportunity. So there's a lot of our own IP in there in terms of AI and robotics.
Of course, there are others out there trying to do that around the edges with point solutions or trying to take Copilot and turn it into something that's not tailored for this particular industry, and it's not quite cutting it. On one hand, it's certainly our stuff, but we do partner with others as well. We do use things like Copilot. We do use things like Document IQ to look at fraud. Sorry, Data IQ, I forget the name .
Investigate DQ, sorry. To look for suspicious transactions. So there are third-party products that we use for other reasons that are technology-based or AI-based as well for fraud prevention and so forth. So we do use third-party products, but the stuff that we're monetizing and selling is generally ours or integrated with others in a use case that's hard to replicate. Jason, you want to add further?
Look, I'd say we absolutely leverage the global tools, the big Amazon, Google, Microsoft, and a lot of others. So we definitely leverage those tools. But the analogy I give you is Copilot for me is like Excel. It's amazing, and it can do pretty much anything, but you've got to sit down and make it all happen.
While we see some advisors heading off down that path, building their own prompts, trying to do stuff, we think that us creating an environment where we've taken some of those tools and built our own stuff on top, but in particular, we've made it jurisdiction and industry-specific because those globals are not going to do that. And our industry is very unique to our jurisdiction. We've got some really different things. Our language is different, etc. So customizing it for our jurisdiction and our industry is really important. And that's where we think we have a real competitive advantage. And we spend a lot of time on that.
Yeah. Last year, I think one of the things I said was there's a really key term in machine learning, which is learning. The challenge with a lot of these generic tools is that they are generic by nature. And the real investment and what we've spent for the last 10 years is you have to understand the underlying data that you're working with, and you have to understand the relationship that data has with its customers for the models to learn. Otherwise, they're never going to achieve the outcome that you really need them to achieve, certainly not at the accuracy levels that you need them to have trust in those models. So a lot of that investment is leveraging the fact that we did understand the data. We spent years trying to figure it out. How does it all get plumbed together?
How does it relate to our customers? And then train those models off the back of that. A lot of the tools that are in the market today provide machine learning capability, but not with the level of learning and training required to deliver the insights that we've spent years trying to determine.
And not necessarily with the access to the data sources we've got to actually leverage that, and not necessarily in a way that you can build an integrated solution, which is leading more and more people in the stats in the industry say that advisors have gone from 18% wanting to use a single platform to 23%-28% in the last three years because they understand monogamy with a relationship with a platform and a tech provider is going to deliver productivity. So all the indicators are there that we'll continue to leverage that for success.
Yeah, great. And another question just on the family offices opportunity. That sounds like it's a new emerging one versus the more traditional customer base that you've had. How should we think about that opportunity as a part of that broader? I think you said a AUD 1.7 trillion TAM.
It's an extension. It's an and, not an or. But we've got kit that goes there. And as Jason was talking earlier about wholesale and the documents and the products and the alternatives to reach there, it will be an extension.
Hi. Andrew, hi. Paul Buys here from Canaccord. Just one relatively high-level question. You guys spoke earlier about the evolution of the advice industry and how we kind of towards the back end of the transition from the institutional ownership to the independent. Just given, as you alluded to, some, I guess, larger transitions in place sort of completing that journey, I was just curious from a BDM perspective and a new business perspective, how do you guys look at that given that that's playing out now? Is it kind of a specific focus on that opportunity as business as usual? How do you address that opportunity?
It's how we address our current business anyway. We do have structure. I talked earlier about the broker and high-net-worth channel in our distribution team. We have a key accounts team as well that work with and provide education. They sponsor. We work closely with large licensees that are key national accounts to harvest those opportunities. Then we have a field force of BDMs who might look at that from a referral point of view. So we have a, if you like to use crass terms, a top-down and a bottom-up approach for those opportunities. But absolutely, we have very strong relationships with the advisors in those groups already. We have very strong relationships, for example, with AZ NGA and Entireti being key platforms for those businesses with billions of dollars of FUA from those businesses on our platform already who've picked up the AMP opportunity.
And we have very strong relationships with the crew who have left Insignia, in Rhombus, but also a lot of the practices there. And so we do have a targeted focus on that. We do actually look at the opportunity. We have heat mapping and all those sorts of things that you'd have in a normal prospecting business. It's no different to what we normally do. It's just a focus on that opportunity and how do you leverage that in the right way. The point to make, though, is if you're separating out of an institution into a non-aligned model, even if the institution has a shareholding there and you're wanting to have advisors grow and be a sustainable value proposition that can pay its own way and lose the overhead from the institution and make a profitable, sustainable business, you're going to need to have the best products.
Otherwise, you won't attract advisors, or they will leave. So that in itself drives activity, and the business in itself promotes Hub and other specialist platforms as a solution of choice. In some ways, they are probably glad to be away from where they were because there's more freedom. It's a very exciting space to be in where your clients or your prospective clients are asking for you at the same time as you're prospecting top-down and bottom-up. There's a lot of work to do, but I think there's a huge opportunity there. I think it will come over time, and those businesses will look like other licensees in a few years' time, regardless of their heritage. It's almost the last step of taking institutional alignment out to privately owned.
Hi there. It's Simon Birrell from Crescent Capital Partners. Just a couple of questions on the technology, I guess. Obviously, the message we got today was around potential unification around the platforms. Just wondering, as you've purchased things, how have you thought about a unified code base on the back end and ensuring that there's not a tech debt from all the acquisitions over time?
I think there's a lot of answers to that, a lot of ways you can do that without having unified code bases and technology has surpassed the need for that. But I'll hand it over to Paul.
Yeah. Look, I mean, the reality is it's an enormous challenge to try and take acquisitive products and try and blend them into the products that we've got. I think for us, the focus is on, again, the narrative today was around creating myprosperity as that front door to all of our services. It's how can we stitch all of those products together to create a seamless experience? The underlying code base doesn't have to be the same for us to achieve that outcome. So the key thing for us is from a user experience perspective, how do we make sure that that's as seamless as possible and it doesn't look like it's been cobbled together? So that's the biggest focus for us. The code base and the technology debt, that's always going to be something we'll have to live with around performance, scalability, reliability.
That's always a key focus of ours. We never take our eye off that. Seamless experience is the key for us.
Philosophically, though, it's integration. But as you build something, you think about, can I use that above my set of so can I build a service that I can then use above my current code base? So over time, you incrementally replace or slide it in and out on the basis. So for example, Engage, as you saw today, actually will run in the platform, but will run in myprosperity. And in actual fact, it could run over arguably any platform. So it's being built not to be part of HUB24, but being built to be its own service there that you can slot in. So you make architectural decisions that make that pathway easier and better for you.
Just as a follow-up, I guess, have you seen any benefit from an engineering efficiency perspective from using something like GitHub Copilot in your business?
Yeah, and in fact, we use those tools today, so the challenge for us is where do we apply those tools? I mean, again, I always get criticized for it, but I often refer to AI and machine learning as a solution looking for a problem, so it's about applying where we think GitHub is going to provide the most benefit for us, and it is about automating the really simple tasks. How can we do that, and in some cases, we're saving upwards of 20%-30% efficiency rates in our engineering practices in using those tools.
Fantastic. Just one last one, I guess, more related to the superannuation industry, but obviously some tax changes coming through around balances at some point. Do you think that advisors might require or direct people to some differentiated products as a result? And how would you, I guess, react to that, I think?
I certainly do. Our exposure with our retail client base is quite limited. So if you look at the number of customers with a AUD 3 million balance in Hub, it's tiny. It would be AUD 300 million of that AUD 90-odd billion we've got, certainly with the target markets we're going to. But we've been fairly agnostic through legal structures. So we've operated MDAs. We've operated custodial services that aren't actually a financial product, IDPS, super. So there's different ways of doing that. And certainly, there will be or there may be a shift. And there may be opportunities to actually lead in that space in terms of thinking about other products, for example, insurance bonds and other ways that are tax advantageous. Can you innovate in that space? So I don't think it'll change the shape of our book in any way or represents a threat to us.
In anything, it represents innovation opportunity.
Thanks very much.
Hey, Andrew. It's Scott Hudson from MST. Paul, could I just ask, in terms of the, I guess, your AI models, is that predominantly proprietary?
It is. Yeah, it's all proprietary. I mean, again, as Jason said, we use Google to provide the underlying infrastructure, but all of the models have been trained on the capability that we've had internally.
Do you ingest the data feeds from Class into your?
Yeah, we do. I mean, Class, HUB24, a lot of external data feeds as well come in through the HUBConnect infrastructure. Again, I think I raised last year that we probably made the biggest investment we've ever made in the underlying data infrastructure to be able to ingest all of that data, store it, cleanse it, and make it available to everything else. The models all feed off that investment in that data infrastructure.
So I guess just given Jason's comment around would take sort of 12-15 years to build those data feeds, I mean, does that mean that your AI model is, I guess, far superior to anything else in the market?
We'd certainly like to think so. Again, because it takes such an enormous amount of effort to consume all of that data, you've got to actually be able to access it in the first place. So accessing it is one thing. I think we're years ahead of our competitors in accessing that information in the first place. Once you access it, then the real challenge begins, which is what do you do with it when you bring it on board? How do you make sure that you're coupling that data together so that it makes sense for the systems that need to consume it? And again, the AI models are no different to any other system in that regard. So we have to make sure that we've invested really heavily in the ability to do that, but that has taken us years.
I mean, my background is that I came to Agility through, sorry, to Hub through acquisition in 2017. We'd spent 10 years prior to that consuming data in the wealth industry and how do we automate and make that really efficient? So combined, you're talking about 15-plus years of investment in that ability to do that. It takes a long time.
Would you be able to put a monetary estimate on that investment?
Off the top of your head? I don't think so, but you can't underplay this. We barreled down a path of thinking we were going to do this ourselves and gave up, bought Agility, and then we thought, "Agility's done the stockbroking industry. We'll just apply that to platforms." Gave up, bought Class. It's really hard, and there's a really good reason why almost no one else has done this. Everyone who stares at it for any length of time goes, "That is really difficult.
Lastly, just in terms of risks around AI, how do you sort of limit hallucinations or biases that build in the model?
Yeah. So we've spent a lot of time, as I mentioned, on the whole governance aspect of the data that we store, which is really critical for us. So we've got a team of about 13 people who are just dedicated to making sure that the way we use our information across the organization, the way that data flows around, is kind of within the train tracks that we've set around its responsible use. So we have rules around who can access it, who can see it, how that data flows around, how it's secured, where it lives. We obviously don't allow data to go offshore. So there's a whole pile of rules and data governance rules that we apply internally to make sure that we're responsibly using that information.
We're also using curated data sets. So if you go back to the risk of AI generating, we're not generating advice. We're not producing content out of public domain data sets. We're looking at and creating data sources ourselves. So there's debate about the term GenAI. Yes, you're using GenAI to actually interpret unstructured data, but we're using it to generate structured data. We're not using it to generate things that could go awry in that regard. And it's certainly a contained data set that partly answers the question about the risk of AI telling somebody to do something stupid and invest in the wrong things. That's not our business yet.
And then, sorry, just one more. Is there a way to leverage that into other cost areas of your business? So I guess disrupt the cost base.
Can I go for one sec? Because I was talking to our very own well, yeah, no. You can just take the photos off the room in the hotel when you leave. I know you take photos of us around with you, but you're rehearsing too.
Yeah, no problem.
There is bad art in hotels, apparently. Our own doctor, Evan Morrison, who runs the innovation lab, I was talking to him the other night in the corridor as I was leaving about how we had taken the capability that we use for HUBConnect licensee where you're looking at all the SOAs. We'd actually taken that capability and used it to monitor MDA compliance or managed discretionary account compliance inside Xplore for our own purposes. And I didn't know where we were using that. So the investment we'd made to help advisors, we were then actually looking at because you have to supervise and you have to look at SOAs every 13 months if you're operating in MDA. So we were seeing documents that we don't normally see and running them through the engine to make sure we were compliant.
There were use cases springing up that I wasn't aware of in the business. Yes, there are opportunities there, whether it be AI or robotics. In some cases, it's not AI. It's just normal technology. That's certainly how we think about the Virtual Mailroom. That data room was an example as well. Yeah.
Mailroom.
Mailroom.
Mailroom. Yeah. And actually, just further to that, so we mentioned today about that data redaction capability. So that has both internal and external benefits because we're looking at how we can leverage that capability in the VMR solution as you ingest all of those paper-based documents to redact the information before you store them. And we'll do the same thing internally for us as well.
I'm just going to give a shout-out to those who are online. We are monitoring if you did want to ask a question. We haven't got any at this stage, but we are monitoring if you'd like to.
Hi. Nick McGarrigle from Barrenjoey. Just a quick one. You've given a good statistic in the pack about 10% of advisors using the platform have AUD 50 million or more on Hub. Is there anything atypical about that cohort, or would you expect that the bulk of the 4,000-plus would gravitate to that over time given the average advised per advisor's 70?
It's a broad statistic. I think that we've seen that pop up over the last few years, so you're seeing increased share of wallet penetration there. We've got some advisors with more than AUD 80 million or AUD 90 million on the platform, and as they change the shape of their client books and they become more productive, I think you'll see that increase, but in that 4,000, there'll be some who have very little penetration, which is an opportunity, so will the bulk of them? Hard to know, but there's certainly a huge runway there to do that with the reach that we've got with existing and new clients.
You've had, I think it's 10,000 advisors sitting under a distribution agreement of some sort, but you've got, I think, 4,500 or something like that using the platform. Has the kind of positioning of that balance changed with the AMP licensees, the IOOF licensees kind of becoming independent? You alluded to that previously, but presumably they were part of a distribution agreement, but maybe didn't have the impetus to lean into Hub?
I don't know how we encountered Insignia, but certainly the AMP ones would have encountered in that statistic before because we're on the AMP APL. So it hasn't changed the access to that. But it's certainly changed the ability to be successful in there because of the way that structure was and perhaps the pricing and the way those products are used inside large institutions without me blurring any lines of how those things work. But certainly, it's an open architecture world where there's a more freer choice, if I could say that. So in that case, I don't know if those stats had the Insignia numbers because of rhythm or.
I believe they would have.
So I don't think that stat will have changed because we had access to both those groups, but our ability to operate should shift.
Nick, just coming back to those advisors with more than 50 million each. That's a practice that's obviously adopted us as their core solution. And coming back to Andrew's term, platform monogamy, we are definitely seeing a trend, whereas when the best interest duty first came in, advisors took that as, "I can't use one platform for all of my clients." I'm sensing a trend in the industry, and I'm hearing industry consultants talk about this. If you really want to be a practice that is efficient, having a single platform relationship is one thing that's going to help drive that. We've now got the breadth of product that we can largely cope with all of their clients.
So I think we will see more advisors just say, "This is just how I do business." And they will triage clients who don't fit our product model, whatever, and say, "Well, you're not a client for me." There's enough demand out there that they can do that. So I think we'll see more and more advisors say, "This is how I do business." And us being their tech partner as well, I think, puts us in the box seat to be the way they do business.
There's a good structural reason for that as well, in that you've got specialist platform providers, if you like, although we're a group with more than just a platform, that are focused on that as their sole business, which means we live or die by delivering a great product. Whereas in a bank-owned model, it's 8% or 10% of the profit of the bank, and they're fighting for capital. So will they build the best-of-breed solution? Hence, advisors were going, "I won't put all my eggs in one basket in case this one's on the boil or this one's off the boil or who owns it." It's very clear what we're doing. It's very clear what we're investing in and that we are building market leading edge. We live or die if we don't. So we've proven that.
So I think that you'll see a shift that some of the risk aversion that drove you to use 2.2 or 3 platforms might shift as well, Damon.
One for Craig. Damon from ECP, by the way. If you think about all the operations or parts of operations within the business and those that are most material, where do you think the biggest opportunities are to de-link cost growth from platform growth over time with the things that Paul's investing in with artificial intelligence? You talked to some of it that's been achieved in the past, but I'm interested to understand where the biggest opportunities are going forward.
I think certainly one area, in terms of our new business growth every year, a lot of our flow comes from transitioning from other platforms to ours. And I think we've got an awesome capability around that sort of in specie transition or platform-to-platform transition. I think in terms of the industry and that process, that's an area that can absolutely reap the benefits of further automation or other aspects. It's still a very paper-based process, registry to registry in terms of moving funds. So speeding up that process speeds up the transition of that money faster to our platform.
There's a reasonable cost overhead attached to that process, both within the distribution team, but also on the operational team, and with our counterparts, our sub-custodians, and whatnot. So I would say that's an area ripe for opportunity. We're happy to keep going, folks, or wind up. Anything online, James? Suraj?
Andrew, just on.
Can you just touch on the economics for the Reach agreement? How does it work? Is the pricing model accretive?
I need to not disclose too much because it's confidential or commercial. And have we signed the partnership agreement? There's an agreement being signed about how we work together apart from our investment.
Yeah. Look, largely, it's a commercial arm's-length agreement in terms of our commercial arrangement. We've obviously invested in the business. We're a minority shareholder. But we're still designing what we think the future of that solution looks like and what part we play together. As it is today, they've got some funds. They've gone onto the platform, normal commercial arrangement.
So, should the business generate profits and we've got 13%, it would work that way. It'll be arm's-length. And there's multiple ways we could take product to market or leverage their product. But we certainly are happy to work with others as well. So it's not the only conduit we've got. And in some cases, there might be products developed that run in custody on the platform and those that run outside of custody that we link to. There are already Reach investments on the platform as they are on other platforms as well.
And Andrew, just following up on that, it seems like as you get bigger, as the scale increases, there's also further revenue opportunities that can come in, like reach, other assets that you can bring. And can you just touch on things that we should be, because everyone's talking about margin pressure, right?
There are certainly opportunities as you grow a business to increase the revenue or to think about how you participate in revenue streams and value chains across markets. Whether that be cross-border currency, whether that be custody, whether it be things like reach or other manufacturing opportunities, there are opportunities to do that across the business. There are cost synergy opportunities as well that we talk about from time to time. So they're there, Suraj. They're things that probably we wouldn't talk about until we embarked on them. But we certainly leverage cost base from a procurement point of view as we get larger. But you are right. You open up to other opportunities when you look at the size of how you're operating or whether you can leverage your distribution or your footprint in some ways.
That's different in financial license businesses as it is in technology businesses. We do think about that. An ecosystem in itself might actually become an app store, those sorts of things that create other opportunities as well. Not shouting out to the market what those things are, but there's a range of opportunities that would have us be able to leverage increased revenue both in the platform and others over time.
Sorry, Scott Hudson from MST again. Could I just ask, what's the price difference to a client between Discover and SMSF Access?
They're priced, sorry, very differently. They're different products, and they're charged in a way. But I think the margin is probably similar. Yeah.
Yeah. I can imagine.
The profit margin would be similar. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
SMSF Access is our IDPS product with an overlay and additional fee, so it's the IDPS with an additional fee for the establishment and the administration of a self-managed super fund, and I think it's in basis points. It's less than 10 basis points additional fee, folks. Yep, and so that's a very different thing, so it's a traditional platform, as you know, published rate card, balance-based tiered fees with some transaction fees and cash fees and so forth in it. Discover is a different proposition. There is no technical admin fee. The fee is embedded in the investment option, and so it's taking an investment option with one fee for that option to market, and we're the investment manager, and we then pay underlying investment consultants or advisors, so we are technically the investment manager for that.
There's a zero admin fee, but there's an embedded fee inside the investment components.
Thanks, and then just in terms of myprosperity, I think obviously I think you showed some reasonably impressive login growth. Can we just sort of understand in terms of the, I guess, the investment case, you're pretty happy that it's now, I guess, meeting the return hurdle of the initial investment?
The question of return is very different to the question of value. But yes, in terms of the investment case and the strategic value, blown away by it, blown away by the reception we're getting in the market. I think there's a number of groups that have said they want to sign up for the enterprise version. There's a number more that have, so there's a number that have signed up and a fair number more that have said they will indicate. I can't give you those numbers here today. In terms of the value to our strategy, yes. Jason will echo that. Over to you guys. You might want to talk about the revenue profile, but.
I'll go first.
Yeah. So those usage numbers are really important. The industry is littered with portals, fact-find tools, cash flow budgeting tools that just get no use. And the great thing about myprosperity is 14 years of usage data where we can see as something was released, what was taken up, and what drove clients back to the site. And so Pete McCarthy is the founder, went on that journey, spent two years in lockdown in Melbourne, couldn't do much. And so they just really deeply analyzed the usage data and discovered, which is not such a surprise, that it's the doing things that clients come back for. And if you're thinking of a banking app, what do you do? You go there to transact. And while you're there, you might look at something.
And so while the industry had focused on, "We're going to give clients cash flow budgeting tools and make them enter their budget and track it," yeah, guess what? They don't do it. Or it's a hole-in-the-wall solution. You're going to go and look at your portfolio value and maybe your performance. Guess what? They very rarely do it. We know that from our own stats on the platform. But what they will do is, "I need to sign something. I've got to consent to something. My advisor's chasing me to load up a document." Those doing things generate about a login a month. While they're there, they'll see something. We might be able to nudge them on a journey. There's a whole lot of opportunity we get once their eyeballs are looking at the app. And so it's that learning that we really value about myprosperity.
And so as we see those usage stats going up, we know we've got product-market fit, that people are finding it valuable, and it's solving a problem for the practice. So we will focus really heavily on that. How do we get adoption? How do they find it valuable, their product-market fit, before we really push out the monetization of it?
Return hurdle.
Yeah. I was just going to say, I think we've sort of mentioned a couple of times that myprosperity is probably around two years behind where we thought we said we would be from a break-even and then making profit, and so that's how to think about the original business case that we put out when we did the purchase. We're probably about two years behind.
Thanks. And then just one last question. In terms of the tech solutions, are you trying to take control of the advisor's desktop?
No, I don't think control is the right word. I think ultimately, these are small businesses, and they're going to make their own call of what tech solutions they want to use. I do think there is the opportunity to produce something that absolutely provides a great client experience, the productivity gains that we've been talking about, and that access to quality data that they can trust, and while that might be, you're always going to find advisors who find the latest app on the app store that they want to try out, and they can still do that, but there'll be a core spine there that if they use it, it just works. I think that's a real opportunity.
We find a lot of advisors in practices who are tinkerers. They're looking at tech all the time. Their kids are probably saying, "Daddy is the latest app," whatever it is.
And they're playing around a lot. But the industry's missing that core spine that just works. So we just want to make that happen, but give them the flexibility.
Language is everything. There are many advisors and groups who are asking us to help them build a set of train tracks or a model office, if you like. But is it taking control of the desktop? It's helping them with their business. And there's a reward for that if you help businesses with that.
Andrea's got one.
James, you've got one online.
Yes. We've got one online from Olivia from Evans & Partners. On the D&A increase relative to FY 2024, how much is from D&A on the new lease versus amortization of capitalized development? And have you changed your useful life assumptions?
Yeah. So I'll do the last bit first. No, we haven't changed our useful life assumptions. The bulk of the increase year on year into the depreciation and amortization is just coming from that catch-up. The cash capitalization had been or the cash spend on capitalization items was AUD 21 million in full year 2024. And so the D&A is catching up with that in this year. And so no change to useful life. And then on the we've done a number of property moves. We had a big one in Sydney. We moved, I think it was two weeks ago, into our new offices in Martin Place. And look, you can probably expect to see a bit of a tick up there for circa, let's call it AUD 1 million for depreciation and amortization related to those leases. Cool.
I think, Andrew, we've got Andy here to do the platform presentation.
I think that's a wind-up.
Yeah.
right one. Anyway, if there's no more questions, thank you very much. We do have some refreshments if you'd like to take in about 15 minutes' time. James Cordukes, who's down the back, who's our Head of Investor Relations, and Andrew Fraser, who heads up one of those channels I was talking about in our distribution function for strategic sales. Andy is here, and we'll be doing a platform presentation for those who'd like to stay. So please join us for some refreshments. Thank you very much. Cheers.