Kelsian Group Limited (ASX:KLS)
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Apr 28, 2026, 4:15 PM AEST
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Earnings Call: H1 2023

Feb 22, 2023

Operator

Good morning. My name is Chris, I'll be your conference operator today. At this time, I'd like to welcome everyone to the Kelsian Group Half Year Results Conference Call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speaker's remarks, there will be a question and answer session. If you'd like to ask a question during this time, simply press star then one on your telephone keypad. I'm going to hand it over to Clint Feuerherdt, Chief Executive Officer.

Clint Feuerherdt
Managing Director and Group CEO, Kelsian Group

Thanks, Chris. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the half year results presentation for Kelsian Group Limited for the six months to 31 December, 2022. For those who don't know me, I'm Clint Feuerherdt, Group CEO. I'm joined today by Andrew Muir, Group CFO. Today, I'll begin by providing an introduction to Kelsian and the key drivers of our business. I will then provide an overview of our financial results and strategic and operational highlights before I hand to Andrew to discuss the group results in more detail. We'll step through the performance of each of our businesses before I conclude with our current focus areas trading so far in second half FY23 and the outlook. Turning now to slide three. For those not so familiar with our business, I want to start by presenting the key attributes.

As you can see, at 31 December, we had over AUD 1.2 billion in annualized contracted revenues. These predominantly long-term government-backed essential service contracts provide us with a solid base of consistent and predictable earnings. Importantly, the majority of these contracts also offer a natural hedge in today's inflationary environment as they include indexation clauses for fuel prices, wages, and CPI. In our marine and tourism business, we are also able to pass on fare increases to offset some of the cost inflation pressures such as fuel and higher wages. As a result of the structure of our contracts, we have a defensive and resilient business model. Over many years of organic growth in M&A, we have established a leadership position that is highly scalable. There are barriers to scale to establish the infrastructure and build the necessary expertise to win what are often complex bus tenders.

Our strong management team with deep sector experience and strong track record in delivering growth has successfully built our business to be the largest bus operator in Sydney following similar paths of success in Perth and Adelaide, something the team is certainly very proud of. One of the drivers of growth has been our leadership position in decarbonization, which has become a key focus, in particular for governments to deliver sustainable transport solutions. Turning to slide four. I want to take a moment to talk about the role of public transport in decarbonization of the transport sector. Firstly, the state of transport in Australia. As many of you know, transport is Australia's third largest source of greenhouse gas emissions with the highest rate of growth. Cars are responsible for roughly half of Australia's transport emissions.

Public transportation is the key to transport-related emissions reduction as it produces fewer emissions per person per kilometer than the average Australian car. The infographic on the right-hand side of the slide, while specific to Victoria, highlights the important role of public transport and its capability to dramatically reduce greenhouse gas emissions. The balloons illustrate emissions on a per person per kilometer basis. The space consumption, shown as footprints from the different modes, illustrates that cars are the most space consuming mode of transport on a square meters per person basis. Electric cars, unsurprisingly, are just as problematic as petrol cars in this respect. While we are progressively incorporating more zero-emission buses with ZEVs in our fleet, it is still worth noting that even a diesel-powered bus has a significantly smaller footprint than the average car. Turning now to Kelsian's role in reducing transport-related emissions.

We are already working with different land transport authorities to help them achieve their Paris-aligned net zero goals. Currently, our Australian fleet includes 60 battery-operated buses and two hydrogen fuel cell buses, making us the largest zero-emission bus operator in the country. We also have 28 zero low-emission vehicles in Singapore and recently kicked off a ZEV trial in the Channel Islands. Decarbonization will be achieved not just trading a diesel bus for an electric one, but by the deployment of more buses to take more cars off the road. You might like to refer back to the cover of the presentation that illustrates our Leichhardt bus depot, which is in fact the largest electrified bus depot in Australia. Turning to slide five. I'd like to spend a few moments describing our three businesses.

First of all, our largest business, representing over 60% of group revenues, is the Australian bus business with long-term contracted essentials transport services to major cities on behalf of government. These contracts are unique in the way that they include indexation clauses that protect us against inflationary pressures. Fuel and wages naturally represent the majority of our cost base, and the remaining costs that support the delivery of our contracted obligations are indexed to CPI. In our public transport businesses, every part of the revenue is indexed. This allows the revenue for the majority of our business to move in line with the market forces while also not being exposed to any demand-driven revenue volatility or fare box risk. We are contracted to provide services irrespective of demand, and they are mostly capital light, with government taking ownership of the fleet and necessary investments.

Whilst there is no demand-driven risk, it is worth noting that we are able to drive revenue growth if we add services, for example, in a growth corridor, and we are able to grow margin over the course of the contract as we extract synergies and efficiencies. Our operations in Singapore deliver the same quality attributes as Australia, enjoy the partnership of an extremely strong government, and operate largely on the same systems and methodologies as other geographies. There are, of course, local distinctions to different businesses, but fundamentally, we are contracted by governments to deliver a public service. When we look at expansion into new geographies, these are the attributes that we are searching for. Our third business is marine and the marine and tourism business that provides passenger transport and ferries, tourism experience, and accommodation in many of Australia's best holiday destinations, including 19 unique island destinations.

For our Marine and Tourism division, some of the operations are contracted in much the same way as the bus business, receiving monthly price indexation from governments, or in the absence of that, persistent cost-based increases are able to be passed on to the end user of the service via fare increases. I wanted to call out the long-term nature of our contracts with the remaining contract terms for each of our businesses outlined here. Calculated using revenue weighted average remaining contract term and including contract extension opt-in options, we have 5.5 years for the Australian bus business, 5.3 years for the international bus, and an impressive 13.3 years of remaining contract term for our Marine and Tourism contracts. This is a highly defensive business with a diversified earnings and geographic mix. Now turning to slide seven and the first half FY23 results.

All of the key attributes that I've just spoken about translate into a very strong performance, even in an otherwise challenging operating environment. Our contract indexation and very strong marine and tourism result have delivered top line growth of 6.2% to AUD 678.3 million of group revenue for the half. Underlying EBIT and NPAT have increased substantially half-on-half. EBIT rising by nearly 18% to AUD 44.9 million and underlying NPAT rising 21.6% to AUD 26.5 million. Our cash generation has followed, with gross operating cash flow increasing 11.7% to AUD 67.5 million for the half.

The business has been investing heavily in its asset base, which Andrew will touch on later, taking our net debt position to AUD 283.7 million and sees our leverage increase slightly to 2.05 times, which reduces to 1.6 times when excluding the government-backed debt component. Understandably, the board has decided to translate this success into an increased interim dividend to AUD 0.075 per share. I might just highlight before we move on that all of these numbers take into account the accounting treatment change of our Singapore bus leases that were detailed separately in the announcement on the 15th of February, and which Andrew will reiterate later in the presentation. Turning to slide eight, our operational and strategic highlights. The Australian bus business has had a period of continuing its 25-year history of delivering substantial organic growth.

The Sydney Metropolitan Bus procurement process has finally come to an end, with Transit Systems emerging as the most successful operator, growing its market share to an impressive 33% of Sydney bus contracts, the largest in the market. This success includes the retention of Region three contract region and new contracts won for Regions two, 13, and 15. To give you an idea of the size of the prize, these new contracts combine, locking some $1.3 billion of revenue over the course of seven years. It's important to note that this is as of today, 20th of February, and includes those new tenders in Sydney that we announced last week.

To bring a renewed focus to managing this business, I am pleased to have appointed a great new dedicated CEO to manage the Transit Systems business and also manage the transition of these bus services as well as the integration of new tenders and M&A. The international bus division has seen geographic expansion with an acquisition in the Channel Islands. Singapore began to enjoy an improved operating environment, with labor shortages now largely resolved. In London, the transition of our East London bus operations to the new owner was well executed. Of course, the other big standout in this half has been the strong rebound in domestic tourism that I'm sure many on the call would have witnessed firsthand over the summer. This has driven impressive growth in our marine and tourism business.

Strong organic growth, we have also signed two new 10-year contracts that secured the contracted revenue of our Gladstone operations. M&A continues to be a complement to our organic growth strategy, while during the period we signed agreements to acquire Horizons West Coast Lines, which takes us into the education transportation space and Grand Touring, the largest coach operator in the Northern Territory. The marine and tourism division undertook the acquisition of the Starship Group, comprising of two vessels and berthing infrastructure on Sydney Harbor, further consolidating our leadership position on the harbor at a time that is enjoying the post-Covid rebound. Just mentioned, buses are a vital path to decarbonizing our cities, and Kelsian is proud to be the standout leader in Australia. During the half, placing orders that will see a further doubling of our net zero emission fleet.

I'll now hand over to Andrew to discuss group results in more detail.

Andrew Muir
Group CFO, Kelsian Group

Thanks, Clint. The financial results reported in the first half highlight the strong recovery we've seen in domestic travel post-COVID, which is reflected in the results for the marine and tourism division. The result reflects the benefits of the cost indexation mechanisms we have in our Australian bus contracts, which provide protection in the highly inflationary environment we are operating in the present time. For those not familiar with this, in our government public bus contracts, our payments from government are adjusted either monthly or annually to take into account movements in the cost base. Slide 10 provides a high-level comparison of the consolidated December half-year result compared with the prior year. Please note, the prior year results have been restated to reflect the change in accounting treatment adopted for the Singapore bus operations.

I'll provide a little more detail around the impact of this change later in the presentation. Starting with revenue, the increase of $39.5 million or 6.2% reflects a $49 million increase in revenues contributed from the marine and tourism businesses. Three months of additional revenue from the first full period contribution of the Sembawang-Yishun contract in Singapore versus the prior corresponding period and the benefit of contract indexation. These were offset by the fact we had no significant rail replacement projects in this half, mostly due to industry-wide labor shortages that led to nearly all of this work being postponed. We anticipate these projects will be rescheduled when the labor issues are resolved.

We were cycling the loss of the Darwin contract, as well as a 50% reduction in our UK operations following the divestment to RATP Dev, which occurred in December 2021. From an operating cost perspective, the inflationary environment and labor availability challenges have resulted in some cost pressures on the business. A large portion of these cost pressures were offset by the indexation mechanisms in our bus operations, as well as our ability to increase fares in most parts of the marine and tourism operations. Labor availability has served to limit some growth opportunities and led to some higher costs as we paid more in overtime and higher casual and agency staff costs to maintain services.

Underlying EBITDA of AUD 79.8 million represents an increase of 1.4% or AUD 1.1 million over the prior year and excludes the one-off items I'll discuss in more detail shortly. The lower EBITDA margin was predominantly due to labor shortages, as well as the time lag that occurred before the fare increases took effect in the marine and tourism business. Inflationary pressure, particularly around fuel, were more extreme early in the period and have moderated in the past couple of months. This has seen margins improve late in the half in the marine and tourism segment. Depreciation reflects the impact of the changes in depreciable asset base of the business, and amortization reflects the non-cash expense associated with the amortization of customer contracts recognized at the acquisition date as part of the purchase price allocation of both Transit Systems and Go West Tours.

Our borrowing costs continue to be well managed through the interest rate hedges we have in place, which has provided protection against recent interest rate increases. From a tax perspective, we've reported an underlying effective tax rate for approximately 26%. We continue to enjoy the benefits associated with marine training incentives, as well as the accelerated tax depreciation benefits associated with the temporary full tax expensing provisions. For the full year, we anticipate the effective tax rate to be maintained at broadly the same levels. Overall, underlying net profit after tax and before amortization of AUD 35 million compared with AUD 33.3 million in the prior year, an increase of AUD 1.7 million or 5.1%. Turning to slide 11.

This provides a summary of the impact of the change in accounting treatment for the Singapore bus business that we announced on the 15th of February, as well as the one-off abnormal items that were incurred during the half and have been adjusted to give a clearer understanding of underlying earnings. The accounting treatment change in Singapore results in adjustment to non-cash items reported in the international bus segment for revenue depreciation, interest, and certain right-of-use assets and associated lease liabilities. There's no impact on net profit before tax, net profit after tax, cash flows, net assets, financial covenants, or on Kelsian's operations or its prospects. The change in accounting treatment did not arise due to any irregularities concerning Kelsian for the period or prior periods, and there was no need to restate historical results or adjust accounting treatment for any other businesses.

One-off abnormal costs in the period were the cost primarily associated with the unsuccessful attempt to acquire the Go-Ahead Group PLC in the U.K. Turning to the cash flow on page 12. During the period, we've maintained our disciplined approach and focus on cash management. The growth operating cash flow of $67.5 million was 11.7% or $7.1 million higher than the prior year. We received $12 million in proceeds from the incoming operator for our vehicle fleet in Darwin. This is an example of how our contracted vehicle termination payment works in our contracts with government when contracts come to an end and are transitioned to another operator. During the half, we invested a total of $44.6 million to acquire new assets across the portfolio to improve the asset base of the business.

I'd like to specifically highlight in the period we repaid the final non-contingent deferred consideration payment associated with the Transit Systems group acquisition, along with first deferred consideration payment associated with the Go West Tours business. We also repaid the vendor note associated with the Cedar Bus Lines acquisition. In summary, we maintained a healthy cash position at the end of the year, and this provides a good liquidity buffer for the business moving forward. As shown on slide 13, we've continued to strengthen our balance sheet with net assets increasing by AUD 4.8 million since June 2022. The increase in our debt facility limits, together with extensions to maturity terms, ensures that we can continue to invest in the business as well as pursue small bolt-on opportunities without the need for additional capital.

During the period, we utilized some of our cash reserves to meet the deferred acquisition obligations and repayment of the third-party debt I spoke about earlier. Although overall leverage has increased slightly, we continue to have significant headroom in all of our bank covenants. In relation to our borrowings, there's an important point I'd like to explain, which is not directly reflected in the balance sheet or accounts. For our Australian bus contract with state governments, where we recognize the cost of buses in our books. If for whatever reason we lose a contract or it's not renewed, there's a contractual obligation for government to take and pay us for the buses at their written down book value. The Darwin contract I mentioned earlier is an example of this.

Whilst this quasi-government receivable is not recognized in our accounts, this is and will continue to be a material sum, and it represents the contractual commitment with our government. As of 31 December , 2022, this quasi-government receivable totaled $70.8 million. If we exclude this receivable to estimate the underlying leverage of the business, our leverage for core debt reduces from just over 2x to just under 1.6 x. Overall, our balance sheet and resilient cash flows ensure the business is well-placed to continue to deliver on our growth strategy via the three core channels being organic growth, diversification into adjacent markets, and M&A in our key target markets of UK, Europe, and the USA. Over to slide 14, which provides an overview of the capital expenditure incurred in the period.

We continued to invest in the business to upgrade our fleet of vessels, vehicles, and accommodation. Gross capital expenditure during the period was $44.6 million, up from $21.1 million in the prior year. Approximately 60% of this was invested in marine and tourism businesses, which really highlight the capital-light nature of the public transport bus businesses. The $44.6 million in capital expenditure included investment in new vessels, several new electric buses and associated charging infrastructure at depots, and some upgrades to IT infrastructure and software. Going forward, the anticipated CapEx for the second half of FY23 is approximately $30 million. This incorporates an ongoing investment in marine fleet and new coaches and electric buses in Australia.

It is worth noting that the increased investment in electric buses leads to increased contractual payments from governments, as well as the operational benefits and savings that are delivered with new buses. We'll also continue to seek to take advantage of the temporary full tax expensing provisions for eligible assets purchased and operational by 30 June , 2023. By way of conclusion on this result overall, I'd like to highlight the resilient nature of our long-term government-backed essential service contracts, which provide a consistent and predictable earnings base. This defensive earnings base, together with our strong balance sheet, resilient cash flows, and disciplined approach to capital deployment, combine to ensure we are well-placed to deliver on our growth strategy. Clint and I will now provide some commentary on the divisional results and performance during the half. Page 16 provides the segment results for the Australian Bus division.

Whilst the contract indexation mechanisms have been working effectively to offset inflationary pressures, the results have been overshadowed by somewhat by an industry-wide shortage of drivers and mechanics. This has resulted in suppressed higher margin rail replacement and special charter event work, higher overtime and casual wage costs to maintain services, increased driver turnover, recruitment and training costs, and KPI penalties for failure to deliver some of the contracted services in some regions. The wash up of this has been an overall margin deterioration, which has been further compounded when comparing with the prior period due to the loss of the Darwin contract and cycling the major rail replacement project in South Australia that was in the first half of FY22. Despite these challenges, we've continued to focus on operational cost controls around things like repairs and maintenance and the benefits realized from group-wide tendering and procurement initiatives.

The business is well-placed once labor issues are resolved.

Clint Feuerherdt
Managing Director and Group CEO, Kelsian Group

I think the temporary overtime and effect of the industry-wide skill shortage was well flagged coming into the half. Substantial progress has been made bringing all of the businesses back to full establishment. All but New South Wales and South Australia are now enjoying full employment with good progress ongoing in Adelaide and Sydney. With labor availability comes the ability to revert to targeting rail and charter work, of which there was very little in this first half. This segment has successfully stepped into parallel segments to open up additional organic growth opportunities. We are seeing a steady stream of organic growth from Go West in the resources space. With the recent completion of Horizons West, opens up more opportunities in the contracted education transport sector.

The reliable contracted earnings and effective indexation has allowed this division to continue its strategic plans with several complementary bolt-ons contracted, and of course, the substantial success in Sydney as we've already covered.

Andrew Muir
Group CFO, Kelsian Group

To the International Bus segment on page 17. The International Bus division results have been restated to reflect the accounting treatment change in Singapore that I discussed earlier in the presentation. There's been a lot of structural changes that have occurred in this segment, which make a comparison to the prior year quite challenging. The prior year comparable results include a full 6-month contribution from the old London operations and 3 months of the new Sembawang-Yishun contract in Singapore, which commenced during late September 2021. Offsetting this, the current year included a full six months of Singapore and three months from the recently acquired Channel Island businesses in Guernsey and Jersey, both of which are trading well.

We've continued to maintain and carry the cost of a senior management capability and presence in London to support us in pursuing tender and M&A opportunities in U.K. and Europe. We've also kept a management presence in North America for the same reasons. Like Australia, the Singapore results have been impacted by labor shortages, which are now largely resolved. This did negatively impact earnings during the period as the performance objectives and financial incentives we usually achieve were not met. It's pleasing to see that overall, we've achieved an improvement in the underlying EBIT of the International Bus division.

Clint Feuerherdt
Managing Director and Group CEO, Kelsian Group

As Andrew highlights, this division has undergone a substantial restructure. During this period, the team executed on the transition of the East London bus operations to the new owner, leaving us with a very well-credentialed management team in London with which to manage our joint venture, oversee the Channel Islands, and bid in Manchester. The small acquisition in the Channel Islands, placing us as the only operator of contracted bus services in Jersey and Guernsey, has been a great complementary addition at the back end of the period. The holding costs of the teams in London and North America are important to our pursuit of growth and evaluation of opportunities in these key markets. The ongoing integration of the Sembawang-Yishun contract in Singapore is going well, and with borders open and full labor complement, is positioned well to continue the path to optimal performance.

With two additional contracts in the market, there has also been considerable focus on preparing for these tenders and possible further expansion.

Andrew Muir
Group CFO, Kelsian Group

Over to page 18 and the segment results for the Marine and Tourism division. The first half of FY23 saw a dramatic improvement in the operating environment of the Marine and Tourism division, with a resurgence in domestic tourism. We've seen the strongest trading volumes and revenue growth since the COVID pandemic began, and the domestic leisure consumer is proving to be very resilient, with minimal impact from the opening up of travel overseas. Staff shortages and inflationary pressures eased as the half progressed, and the fare increases that were implemented throughout the period did not suppress demand, but more importantly have underpinned a recovery in margins.

The overall margin compression compared with the prior year was a result of a few factors, including labor shortages, particularly hospitality roles resulting in higher casual and overtime costs, a time lag before the introduction and/or approval and implementation of higher fares took effect to offset escalating costs. Finally, some post-COVID catch-up of repairs and maintenance spend on several of the larger vessels in the fleet which were deferred through COVID. These vessels required their five-year out of water slipping and compliance certification, and the repairs and maintenance costs of these larger vessels was more than AUD 2 million in the period.

Clint Feuerherdt
Managing Director and Group CEO, Kelsian Group

We spoke about the increased demand we are seeing in marine and tourism as we came into this half year period. It's pleasing to see that this demand has certainly continued to deliver an impressive level of growth. Domestic demand is still the major driver of revenue in this division and our international tourism revenue component only representing about 30% of pre-COVID levels, indicating that there is still some way to go. I would highlight that COVID was spent getting match fit and creating a much more demand responsive operating business. The division is more exposed to cost base increases, but we have used the yield management tools and modest fare increases to combat the inflationary effects and largely maintain the margins.

There have been some good contract renewals during the period with the signing of the 10-year Gladstone contract and more recently the signing of a 15-year contract to continue operating a subsidized service to Lane Cove in Sydney. Andrew has already highlighted the significant investment in our fleet during the period, with some substantial scheduled maintenance spend flowing into the P&L. The unfortunate flooding of the Murray River saw us suspend cruising in late November, which is expected to resume mid to late March. We are very happy with the trading in this division, but the lift in the quality of the asset base and recontracting of some significant contracts are equally worthy highlights.

Andrew Muir
Group CFO, Kelsian Group

Page 19 provides a summary of the corporate cost center for the group. During the period, we made a concerted effort to build scale and invest in the people and systems we need to drive efficiency and position the business for growth. We need this scale and resources to be able to ensure a successful transition of the recent contract wins in Sydney and the integration of M&A activity. Areas of focus have been to bolster our human resources, IT and digital teams to better manage our people, build more capability in the business development arena and our in-house legal capacity, and focus on investing in cyber prevention to manage our cyber risks and the exposures across the business. We've also continued to focus on improving our websites and consumer experience and commenced the rollout of a CRM solution to improve customer loyalty and cross-selling opportunities.

Clint Feuerherdt
Managing Director and Group CEO, Kelsian Group

Now turning our mind to the future and turning to slide 21, I'll speak about our current areas of focus. There's certainly no shortage of activity across the entire business at the moment. No sooner have we announced the successful contract retention and new tender wins, then work begins to transition the bus contracts and to extract the synergies and efficiencies that are available. Throughout the contract term, there are opportunities to grow both revenue and margin. There are several opportunities to win new tenders both in the local region and overseas. Of course, growth through acquisitions continues to be a core focus for us. While we've been focused on public transport services, we have also recently moved into adjacent sectors such as education and resources, where we can apply our expertise.

We plan to further the success we have seen with the expansion of our resources-based services and embark on the same path in the contracted education transport space. We have the balance sheet strength, the management capability and experience, as well as leadership in sustainable transport solutions to capitalize on the significant number of opportunities out there. Remembering, of course, that we remain very disciplined in our deployment of capital, as evidenced by our decisions to walk away from acquisitions where we don't see value and not alter our proven approach to tendering that has delivered a consistent two decades of growth. On to slide 22. I don't think there's any doubt that Kelsian continues to be the most successful and respected operator of public transport in Australia. Over two decades of consistent success has delivered substantial shareholder value in a very capital light way.

With most of the advanced economies continuing to partner with the private for higher quality transport solutions, the possible pipeline of contracting opportunities is large. The key strengths that underpin our business will facilitate further conversion of these opportunities over the short, medium, and longer term. In addition to the parallel sector opportunities that I've already highlighted, our near-term focus will be on tenders in Singapore, UK, and New Zealand. Now that Region three has been recontracted in Sydney, Kelsian will not be required to re-bid any of its other contracts for several years. The domestic focus will be positioning in Melbourne for possible substantial pipeline of contracts that come to an end from 2025.

There is always the possibility of governments taking the step in Queensland, ACT, and Tasmania to align with the other states of Australia in targeting higher quality and greater value for money outcomes for their public transport services. Turning to slide 23, the trading outlook and trading update and outlook. Second half of FY23 has got off to a great start with the recent tender wins that we announced last week. As I said, now the real work starts to deliver on our KPIs and to maximize the returns from each contract. A huge effort was expended through the first half to put the businesses in the best possible position following the labor shortfall in the market, and we are now in a stronger position to target more ancillary work. For the two outstanding regions, further retention and recruiting initiatives are being deployed.

Domestic tourism demand continues, and the marine and tourism business will continue to capture as much of this market as possible as international visitation ramps up. As Andrew and I have highlighted, we have the balance sheet strength, cash flow, and management strength to continue investing in our asset base and capitalize on the momentum building in governments' appetite to invest in decarbonization of public transport. Kelsian is at the forefront of this important innovation. Onto slide 24. Finally, before I take your questions, let me try and summarize where I think the group is at today. Coming into this period, COVID had set the scene to illustrate the defensive and resilient nature of the business model, and substantially all of our contract services continued throughout the COVID period, despite lockdowns and varying passenger demands.

This half year result also evidences the embedded inflationary protection in each of the three divisions. The business is therefore very well placed to navigate the future economic environment and will not be forced to ease up on acting on growth opportunities that present. The recent contract awards also demonstrate the quality and reputation of the group and continues over two decades of history delivering the same. We have bolstered our corporate resources and appointed a dedicated CEO for Transit Systems to support our growth ambitions. We are at the start of some new contracts in high growth corridors with opportunities to drive efficiency and synergies between contract regions and deliver on our margin expansion objectives. The strength of the balance sheet and predictable operating cash flows, combined with our considerable management experience, enables Kelsian to continue to be a leader in decarbonization.

We will deploy our disciplined growth approach to acquisitive growth in new markets that unlock further organic growth opportunities. Thank you for listening, and I'll now hand over to Chris to take some questions.

Operator

Thank you. As a reminder, if you would like to ask a question, please press star then one on your telephone keypad. Our first question is from Marni Lysaght with Macquarie. Your line is open.

Marni Lysaght
Equity Research Analyst of Emerging Leaders, Macquarie

Good morning, team. Just a few from me. I'd like to understand, is anything else just following what happened last week with the accounting standard change, has anything else been accounted for on a grossed up basis? Are we to expect potentially review the treatment of that in the future?

Clint Feuerherdt
Managing Director and Group CEO, Kelsian Group

Yeah, Marni. It was an accounting treatment change, not accounting standard change.

Marni Lysaght
Equity Research Analyst of Emerging Leaders, Macquarie

Sorry, treatment change. Yeah.

Clint Feuerherdt
Managing Director and Group CEO, Kelsian Group

Yeah. Yeah, there's no impact on any part of the business, so it only relates to the Singapore operations. Where the Singapore operations are now accounted for on a net basis rather than a gross basis.

Marni Lysaght
Equity Research Analyst of Emerging Leaders, Macquarie

Yes, that's clear. My question is more: Is anything else being treated on a grossed up basis? Would you be looking at treating this as-

Clint Feuerherdt
Managing Director and Group CEO, Kelsian Group

There's no change in the accounting treatment for any other aspect of the business. It was a Singapore specific matter.

Marni Lysaght
Equity Research Analyst of Emerging Leaders, Macquarie

Okay.

Clint Feuerherdt
Managing Director and Group CEO, Kelsian Group

I think one of the key differences, Marni, is we actually pay a large lease fee for the buses in Singapore, which is ultimately refunded by the government. In Australia, where we use government assets, the government assets are provided on a peppercorn lease, you know, a $1 a year type arrangement. You know, it's not the same situation as a kind of a more like market-based lease that's refunded in Singapore.

Marni Lysaght
Equity Research Analyst of Emerging Leaders, Macquarie

Okay. just to Singapore, the nuances of Singapore is the, yeah, is the reason why it's probably different and therefore.

Clint Feuerherdt
Managing Director and Group CEO, Kelsian Group

Yeah.

Marni Lysaght
Equity Research Analyst of Emerging Leaders, Macquarie

There's a rationale to change the accounting treatment. Just on buses, I know it's been a fairly resilient operation. Has there been any, like, adverse impacts of timing with indexation across both Singapore and Australia?

Clint Feuerherdt
Managing Director and Group CEO, Kelsian Group

There's no mismatch between fuel indexation that's delivered monthly in arrears, so certainly not in fuel. I think, yeah, the mismatch that probably doesn't affect our PNL but probably affects the people on the receiving end is the wage indexation, which is done on a six-monthly or yearly basis. As we've explained before, the wage increases embedded within our enterprise agreements perfectly match the indexation in our revenue. Of course, as inflation increases and wage increases take place across the country. That indexation figure is a little bit lagging, but it doesn't affect our, the company PNL, it just affects when those pay rises are passed on to the workforce.

Marni Lysaght
Equity Research Analyst of Emerging Leaders, Macquarie

Okay, I see. Just a final one from me. The value of the government receivable on the contracted, sorry, the, contracted assets are about $70 million. I know previously they were more $90 million, $100 million. What is, first of all, what does that reflect? Can you give us some color, kind of the journey you've been on with your, with financiers about this, you know, almost like a government receivable and, you know, the way they're looking at your capital structure and leverage?

Clint Feuerherdt
Managing Director and Group CEO, Kelsian Group

Yeah. The amount's decreased over time, Marni. A couple of reasons. One is because the assets depreciate and there's, that depreciation is then reflected in the book value and the vehicle termination payments that we don't recognize that asset, but that's how it's calculated. Also the change in the Darwin contract, where we were paid AUD 12 million for those assets that we held on our balance sheet, which really just demonstrates how that mechanism works and works effectively. Yeah, look, we're still exploring, some financing options to try and ring-fence and quarantine that, so it's easier for you and others to understand, you know, what the true underlying leverage of the business is. We're hopeful to have something concluded on that in the next few months.

Marni Lysaght
Equity Research Analyst of Emerging Leaders, Macquarie

Excellent. I'll drop back in the queue.

Clint Feuerherdt
Managing Director and Group CEO, Kelsian Group

Thanks, Marnie.

Operator

The next question is from John O'Shea, Minett with Ord Minnett. Your line is open.

John O'Shea
Senior Research Analyst of Industrial and Specialist Services, Ord Minnett

Good morning, gents. Can you hear me okay?

Clint Feuerherdt
Managing Director and Group CEO, Kelsian Group

Yep. Very well, John.

John O'Shea
Senior Research Analyst of Industrial and Specialist Services, Ord Minnett

Yeah, thanks very much for taking my questions. look, I just wondered if you can give some, you've given some general comments on the trading update. just in terms of the way we should think about the shape of the second half, I suppose, in terms of any sort of seasonality within the tourism marine business, first half, second half, and how you would expect, you know, the shape of the earnings for the bus businesses to together look in the second half. Obviously, you know, we've noted the driver impacts and all of those things that you've seen on the cost front and your expectation of a moderation. you know, based on what you've seen so far in the initial period of the second half, how should we be thinking about the shape of the second half?

Should we be thinking about it the same, you know, lower, slightly higher? Just in general terms, how we should think about the shape of the second half?

Clint Feuerherdt
Managing Director and Group CEO, Kelsian Group

Thanks, John. I'll have a go at a general answer. I think on the, on the bus side of things, you know, we're kind of through the worst of the labor situation and the, and the highlight comes all but Sydney and Adelaide now, you know, still recruiting but making good progress. What that means is obviously overtime costs across the business are reducing. We're able to, you know, implement annual leave again for staff, which will take kind of provisions off the balance sheet. We're seeing an increased level of activity in that charter and rail replacement type space that has been deferred from previous periods. Certainly, you know, the Australian bus division is moving forward.

The marine and tourism business, I would typically say that the first half or the second half of the financial year is typically quieter than the first half of the financial year. However, there were periods in this half where we would ordinarily see softness, you know, outside of school holidays, for example, or midweek, where we weren't seeing any softness. That sort of continued into the second half. Yeah, we're seeing kind of very, very strong levels of demand, you know, continuing at the same sort of level as the first half, you know, as we, you know, progress through the first month or two of the second half.

John O'Shea
Senior Research Analyst of Industrial and Specialist Services, Ord Minnett

Yeah. Thanks for that. That's good. That gives us good color. You know, just without wishing to put words in your mouth, obviously the buses, we wouldn't expect anything worse. So far, the tourism sort of is indicating that it could possibly do what you did in the first half. Is that a fair summary?

Clint Feuerherdt
Managing Director and Group CEO, Kelsian Group

Good, good summary.

John O'Shea
Senior Research Analyst of Industrial and Specialist Services, Ord Minnett

Thank you.

Operator

The next question is from Elijah Mayr with CLSA. Your line is open.

Elijah Mayr
Equity Research Analyst of Diversified Financials and Industrials, CLSA

Good morning, guys. Just a couple from me. Maybe just firstly, on the international bus segment, are you able to sort of quantify, I guess, the costs that are still sitting in the UK and the US and how that's changed year-on-year?

Clint Feuerherdt
Managing Director and Group CEO, Kelsian Group

Yeah, Elijah. Sort of all up, it's getting up towards AUD 2 million.

Elijah Mayr
Equity Research Analyst of Diversified Financials and Industrials, CLSA

How different is that from this year versus last year? I just would've thought that it seems like EBITDA has gone down year on year. I thought there would've been more cost taken out of the U.K. business with the divestment of East London.

Clint Feuerherdt
Managing Director and Group CEO, Kelsian Group

Yeah, there was some cost removed from that operation. A part of that business was making a positive contribution, and we've still got 11 people in the U.K. That reflects also some of the costs that we're incurring to submit these bids, which are not insignificant for the Manchester opportunity, plus the presence we maintain in the USA.

Elijah Mayr
Equity Research Analyst of Diversified Financials and Industrials, CLSA

Yeah. Then just on the service degradation in Singapore, are you able to sort of quantify that and maybe give us an outlook if that's gonna have more of an impact in the second half 2023?

Clint Feuerherdt
Managing Director and Group CEO, Kelsian Group

The worst of the service degradation in Singapore, which was directly correlated with the labor availability in Singapore, you know, post the borders opening, has largely been resolved. The worst of it was in, certainly in the first half. We would expect most of the second half to be running full services. The big part of, I guess the earnings that come from Singapore relate to service level bonuses and delivering all the services and delivering a good on-time service. There's big performance bonuses in those contracts, which obviously get substantially altered when you're not delivering all the services and you don't have enough people to do that.

We're seeing a strong comeback in those performance level bonuses as we come into the second half.

Elijah Mayr
Equity Research Analyst of Diversified Financials and Industrials, CLSA

Yep. No, that makes sense. You'd expect, I guess, that as bonuses come back, that you should have margin expansion in that international segment.

Clint Feuerherdt
Managing Director and Group CEO, Kelsian Group

Yeah, correct.

Elijah Mayr
Equity Research Analyst of Diversified Financials and Industrials, CLSA

There's no other costs coming into the business.

Clint Feuerherdt
Managing Director and Group CEO, Kelsian Group

Yep.

Elijah Mayr
Equity Research Analyst of Diversified Financials and Industrials, CLSA

Cool. Then maybe just on the marine and tourism side of things, are you able to sort of call out, which parts of the business are still lagging and which ones were the key outperformance?

Clint Feuerherdt
Managing Director and Group CEO, Kelsian Group

Yeah, they're all performing pretty well, to be honest. Obviously we've got the Murray Princess tied up at the moment. There's substantial foregone revenue until the water in the Murray River resides. That's going quickly. We're expecting by, you know, mid to late March to get that vessel back cruising. That's an obvious one where there's just pure costs, holding costs and no earnings contribution whatsoever. There's further upside out of that asset in the second half for sure. Yeah, we're seeing Sydney Harbour starting to come back, but obviously that's one of our business units that relies very heavily on international tourism.

It is coming back strongly and there's a lot of activity in the corporate charter market, which the new acquisition of the Starship Group and the new vessel, The Jackson, is capitalizing on. They're probably the two kind of standouts that have some way to go in the second half to ramp up. You know, probably the strongest destinations are the ones that have been strong throughout COVID, which is Fraser Island, North Stradbroke Island and Kangaroo Island.

Elijah Mayr
Equity Research Analyst of Diversified Financials and Industrials, CLSA

Yeah, no problem. Maybe just one final one on, just on the finance charges. There wasn't as much detail in the, in the first half report, but they stayed flat year-on-year. You've had sort of interest rate increases coming through. Can you kind of talk through the mechanics of that and maybe your expectations for interest charges going into the second half?

Clint Feuerherdt
Managing Director and Group CEO, Kelsian Group

you know, be pretty much the same levels, Elijah. The interest rate hedging that we've got in place has protected in that front. Also we called out that we repaid some of the deferred consideration and vendor notes, and they attracted a much higher coupon and been on the balance sheet for some time, so there was some benefit in paying those out early in the period.

Elijah Mayr
Equity Research Analyst of Diversified Financials and Industrials, CLSA

Yep. No problem. When does the hedging roll off?

Clint Feuerherdt
Managing Director and Group CEO, Kelsian Group

about a couple of years.

Elijah Mayr
Equity Research Analyst of Diversified Financials and Industrials, CLSA

Couple years. Awesome. Thanks for the questions.

Clint Feuerherdt
Managing Director and Group CEO, Kelsian Group

Thanks.

Operator

The next question is from Tim Piper with UBS. Your line is open. Tim Piper with UBS.

Tim Piper
Director and Equity Research Analyst, UBS

Sorry. Apologies. Hi, Clinton, Andrew. Look, just first question, operating cash conversion was set in the first half, sort of down a bit year-on-year. Is there potential of timing within that? Then can we kind of expect it to revert in the second half and, you know, get closer to sort of that 90%-100% operating cash conversion?

Clint Feuerherdt
Managing Director and Group CEO, Kelsian Group

Yeah, Tim, we also had the one-off costs for the Go-Ahead acquisition. They were paid out in the period as well. There's no issue from a collections point of view. You know, that should resume into, you know, normal alignment in the second half.

Tim Piper
Director and Equity Research Analyst, UBS

Okay, got it. Then just a question on marine and tourism. That's a strong result in the half. Obviously a lot of it's being driven by the strong revenue uplift. Margins are down slightly. Can you maybe just talk to where you kind of see EBITDA margins going in the next year or two in that business? What are the headwinds holding it back? There might be a new contract or two in there that sort of dilutes it a bit. I can't recall the exact timing around that. Any, any commentary, I think previously like a mid-twenties type EBITDA margin was maybe what we're going for.

Clint Feuerherdt
Managing Director and Group CEO, Kelsian Group

Yeah, look, I think that's still achievable, Tim. Remember, we've got the RiverCity Ferries business as it's reported in that segment, which is a much lower margin. It's more akin to a public bus business. What we're seeing now is that the fare increases that were pushed through during the period, you know, have all stuck, haven't suppressed demand. We're seeing the cost base ease a little bit. You know, fuel's come down considerably from where it was early on in the period. We've also got some further increases scheduled to come in the next half. I think it's realistic to achieve that sort of mid-20s, getting up a little bit higher sort of margins in the longer term.

We're seeing that cycle through, in the later period of sort of December through January.

Tim Piper
Director and Equity Research Analyst, UBS

Thanks. Just to follow up, sorry, to the last question on interest rate hedging. You said out a couple of years, is that at the same kind of effective level as you've had through the half out for a couple of years?

Clint Feuerherdt
Managing Director and Group CEO, Kelsian Group

That's right.

Tim Piper
Director and Equity Research Analyst, UBS

Okay, great. Thanks. I'll leave it there.

Clint Feuerherdt
Managing Director and Group CEO, Kelsian Group

Thanks, Tim.

Operator

Again, that's star one if you'd like to ask a question. The next question is from Jason Palmer with Taylor Collison. Your line is open.

Jason Palmer
Equities Analyst, Taylor Collison

Yeah, thanks. Good morning, guys. Couple from me. Can you maybe talk to the sort of run rates you're seeing, maybe at a qualitative level across both the international and the Australian bus businesses relative to sort of exit rates versus entry rates? Just to sort of help us sort of paint the picture to, you know, where it's at. Just cognizant that you were talking about some incentive payments in Singapore and whether you get them every month or signing Sam already or whether you get them at the end of the six-month period. Thank you.

Clint Feuerherdt
Managing Director and Group CEO, Kelsian Group

Yeah. Thanks, Jason. I mean, it's really kind of an extension of my previous answer, which is, you know, the labor situation is, you know, largely resolved at the end of the half. We're coming into the second half, with all but Adelaide and Sydney at full establishment. We're only just kind of beginning to start to be able to capitalize on some of the available, rail replacement charter work, that's in the market. So, you know, certainly, you know, if you're looking at a chart, you know, we're beyond the trough of the cost base in that Australian bus division and on the up. The same would be exist in Singapore, to be honest. We've got a couple of effects in Singapore.

Obviously, the performance bonuses and overtime effects of low levels of staff kind of through the half, you know, largely resolved by the end of December. Performance bonuses starting to come back. The Sembawang-Yishun contract is obviously in that phase of kind of reaching kind of its optimal performance. You know, I'd expect both of these businesses to be, you know, showing some incremental improvement during the course of the second half.

Jason Palmer
Equities Analyst, Taylor Collison

Right. One of those Singaporean contracts now is actually getting paid performance bonuses?

Clint Feuerherdt
Managing Director and Group CEO, Kelsian Group

Correct.

Jason Palmer
Equities Analyst, Taylor Collison

Okay, thanks. This is my last question, was just around the Marine Tourism business. Fantastic outcome. You sort of go back to where you were pre-COVID, and I know there's been a couple of contract wins and things come out of it over the journey, but you're kind of back to where it was. This may be a bit of a general question, but I'm just trying to appreciate sort of what you've done with optimizing that business through COVID, so when it comes out the other side, it's a much leaner operation. I just note that you made a comment before around the cost base being a bit more exposed in that business. I'm just trying to marry up sort of those two points.

Clint Feuerherdt
Managing Director and Group CEO, Kelsian Group

Yeah. I think my point earlier was that there's only part of this portfolio that enjoys kind of the contract indexation, like the bus side of things. You know, RiverCity Ferries and Gladstone and some of the other smaller kind of government contracted services in the portfolio. Majority of the business, generally enjoys exclusive links to islands where there's an element of non-discretionary travel, but also, you know, the discretionary tourism travel. Because they enjoy that preferred status, you know, any cost base increases that are experienced in those business generally can be passed on through fare increases, as Andrew was describing. That, you know, the point was not to highlight that it's exposed to cost base increases, but to highlight that it's well-protected in the event of cost base increases.

you know, I think what we can see out of this business going forward is, you know, as those costs in the cost base, these additional overtime, you know, there's the staff, with staff shortages across this part of the business that didn't affect the delivery of services because we're able to cover 100% of services with overtime. That'll come out, which obviously translates into marginal improvement. I think the one thing that I would highlight, as a result of COVID is the effort that we've put into, scaling our business to only deliver services that we know will have demand, and pricing those services in a way that maximizes the yield from that demand.

We've invested very heavily in, you know, artificial intelligence demand pricing technology, which is progressively being rolled out across the business, which is translating into higher yields. We're getting better performance out of these assets in some cases than pre-COVID.

Jason Palmer
Equities Analyst, Taylor Collison

Okay, wonderful. What you're saying is that you're running less services and some of the service drops that you could put through during COVID and increase utilization, the customers are still accepting that reduced service?

Clint Feuerherdt
Managing Director and Group CEO, Kelsian Group

Correct. Yeah. We don't run a service. Well, I mean, the services that we're cutting are obviously not in high demand. You know, the percentage of the customer base that you'll disadvantage in by asking them to catch an alternate service is not a big percentage of the customer base. You know, between that change and the fare increases, we're not seeing that affect demand at all.

Jason Palmer
Equities Analyst, Taylor Collison

Great. Thank you so much.

Operator

We have no further questions at this time. I'll turn it over to Clint Feuerherdt for any closing comments.

Clint Feuerherdt
Managing Director and Group CEO, Kelsian Group

Thanks, Chris. I know it's a busy time, thanks for everybody for listening and for your questions. I'd just like to take the opportunity to once again acknowledge the team of people at Kelsian who were able to deliver this great result and some impressive contracting success. Thank you all also for your support of the company and my team. Thank you again, good morning.

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