Thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Praemium Limited FY 2021 annual results briefing. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Anthony Wamsteker, CEO. Please go ahead.
Good morning, and thank you all for joining today's briefing for our full year results of the 2021 financial year. Obviously, our call is different to prior years, with much of Australia still in lockdown, such that Paul and I are coming to you from different locations. Please bear with us if there are any delays. We'll just move on to the disclaimer, and then if we could just go through to the third slide. If I could just talk about our history and past developments, which are pretty much covered on this slide, mean that we continue to own our own technology, which is a source of enduring competitive advantage for us. If we go on to the fourth slide. Today, I'll be providing a summary of the year. I'll turn over to our CFO, Paul Gutteridge, for more detail on our financial results.
I will then give a business update and talk about our focus for the year ahead. Before we close, we'll allow some time for questions from analysts. Moving on to the executive summary. The investment in growth that we've made over the past year delivered some outstanding results. The two Australian platform components, the Praemium Managed Account and the Powerwrap platforms, both returned to very strong growth after a relatively flat FY 2020, while VMAAS and the international platform continued their spectacular growth. Praemium takes much stronger momentum into this financial year than at the start of FY 2020. Moving on. Just to elaborate a bit more on that growth. The growth in FUA was a remarkable achievement. VMAAS was up 61%. Praemium Australia's managed account platform up 22% compared to a decline of 18% in the previous year.
It was actually up 52% year-on-year if the ANZ transition is excluded from the numbers. The Powerwrap platform was up 36% year-on-year, compared to just 4% in the previous year, and the international platform was up 55%. Moving on to the final slide before I hand over to Paul. We firmly believe the fact that we own and control our own proprietary technology allows us to better meet our clients' needs in a rapidly evolving world. Some of our key client wins reflect this flexibility. There is a growing awareness that once advisers review in some detail the features and benefits of our VMA technology and managed accounts platform, that both they and their clients are likely to achieve better financial outcomes because of the way that our technology is structured.
I think that is reflected in some of the industry recognition, which is on slide eight. I won't talk to any of that in detail. Rather, I'll hand over now to Paul to go through our financial results for the financial year. Thanks, Paul.
Thank you, Anthony, and good morning, everybody. Thanks for joining us this morning. I'll start on slide 10, and you can see that this year's results will be summarized based on two key themes. The first one being the inclusion of Powerwrap results, which was included from September 2020, and that the business is continuing to invest and to invest in supporting our accelerating growth rate, which Anthony referred to earlier. In terms of our key financial results, if you look at the, I suppose, the table on the left-hand side, you'll note that our revenue growth after product commissions increased 30% to AUD 65.5 million. Our gross margin was up 15% to AUD 45.8 million. Our gross margin was 70%, which you can note was a decline from the prior year due to the inclusion of Powerwrap, and I'll detail the gross margin further on the coming slide.
Our underlying EBITDA was AUD 14 million, which was down 1% relative to the prior year's AUD 14.2 million, with EBITDA margins of 21%. Now, if we look at some of the key expense categories, I suppose I'll call out our cost of operations. You'll note that that increased to AUD 19.7 million. This was from investment to support growth and our service levels with a change in client mix to retail advisers. You'll note that in terms of sales and marketing, we continued that investment up to AUD 14.5 million for this financial year, a 26% increase relative to the prior year. Now for expenses below EBITDA, I'll touch on those in more detail on the next slide. To summarize, with the acquired cost base and higher amortization and acquisition costs, net profit after tax declined to AUD 1.5 million.
If we move to slide 11, which is a comparison of half-on-half results, you'll note that revenue growth was up 11% to AUD 33.9 million, and this was achieved across all products. The second half was the first full half of Powerwrap's results. Our first half included four months' worth, and the second half had more stable trading volumes from the previously higher cash and transaction volumes that we had seen during COVID in previous halves. You'll note that our gross margin of 70% remained consistent to the first half, and our EBITDA margin of 20% was slightly down from the previous half's 23%, due to continued sales and marketing and the inclusion of Powerwrap IT expenses. If we look at expenses below EBITDA, you'll see that share schemes or share-based payments was consistent for each half at AUD 1.7 per half.
Depreciation and amortization for the full year was AUD 8 million. This included amortization of intangibles being capitalized R&D of AUD 5.6 million, lease assets of AUD 1.6 million due to the new standards relating to rental payments, and previous acquisitions of AUD 200,000. You'll note that there was an unrealized gain in the first half on Powerwrap shares of AUD 4.5 million. You'll note that the tax expense line, we had a lower tax expense in the second half due to the inclusion of Powerwrap's tax losses post the acquisition. If we move to slide 12, I'll refer to the Australian segment in more detail. You'll note that there's a number of components in this year's results, including the acquisition of Powerwrap. I'll refer to the graph at the bottom left to refer to some of the key highlight movements.
If we look at revenue growth, firstly, you'll see that total revenue of AUD 53.1 million was a 37% increase on the prior year. This included Powerwrap revenue, note we call that out at AUD 16.3 million. Praemium's underlying platform certainly did grow. It grew at 15% per annum. That's excluding the ANZ transition. If you refer to the graph, that first AUD -3.4 million refers to the ANZ outflow. You'll note that our revenue growth for both the Australian platform and our portfolio revenue was more or less offset by the outflows from ANZ this year. If I turn to portfolio services revenue, that was AUD 16.1 million. That was up 6%.
If I break that down between our two core product lines within portfolio services, our VMA software was up 3% and our VMA admin revenue was up 40%, and that's really representing that good onboarding and strong growth we've had during the year. To call out, we've segregated the portfolio services revenue we did earn from Powerwrap in the private prior year. You can see that was AUD 2.5 million. Obviously, that's ceased post the acquisition, and we recorded AUD 400,000 in the two months prior to the acquisition. Touching on Powerwrap acquisition. You'll see that the average basis points for our platform revenue was 22 basis points for the year, and you can see that is segregated between Praemium of 33 basis points and Powerwrap of 19 basis points. Gross margins were 75% for the full year, and that was consistent with the first half.
Again, breaking down between the Praemium platform, 80% on the Praemium platform and 65% on the Powerwrap platform. That is really representing, obviously, post the acquisition, Powerwrap's mix of high-net-worth clients. Obviously, at the time of the acquisition, Powerwrap was approaching profitability but not yet at profitability. EBITDA margins were 36% for the Australian business. Again, 39% for the Praemium business unit, 29% for Powerwrap. If I compare that to the first half, that is an increase from 33%, which is in the first half. We are seeing EBITDA margin improvement into the second half. If I refer to all the movements in the graph on the bottom left, you'll see that Powerwrap's contribution was AUD 4.8 million, which is very positive.
At the same time, we've continued to invest in the business, both in service, you can see that we've invested in operations to support our increasing client growth and obviously record growth that we've certainly seen flow into the fourth quarter and now into July, and our continued investment in sales and marketing. If I move to slide 13, I'll touch on our international segment results. This year's segment result is based on recording of all the regions under the proposed investment of the international business. This includes the combination of the U.K., Asia, and Dubai entities. If we look at revenue, firstly, at the net revenue line, which excludes product commissions, you'll see we had revenue growth of 6%. Platform revenues continued to grow strongly. That was up 30% relative to FUA, which grew 55%, and obviously much stronger in the second half of the year.
We've continued to have outflows from our fund revenue; that was down 47%, but has effectively ended. We've had consistent planning software revenue as Plum clients have upgraded to WealthCraft. If we look at expense management relative to revenue, again, we've been able to manage expenses in the international business, only grew 2% relative to the revenue of 6%. Therefore, the EBITDA loss has declined to AUD 3.9 million, which was a 7% improvement. If we look at each of the, I suppose, the segments within that, U.K. was a AUD 1.4 million loss, which was a 27% improvement. Asia was a AUD 900,000 loss, which was a 1% increase. The inclusion of the Dubai cost center is AUD 1.6 million. If I move to slide 14 to just quickly refer to our cash flow. You'll see that operating cash flow, that first line, is consistent with EBITDA.
EBITDA is predominantly cash-based. You can see that our AUD 14 million EBITDA is only different to the operating cash flow of AUD 12.6 million, really from the timing of working capital flows. When you include tax payments and one-off costs, which I will refer to on the next slide, our total operating cash flow was AUD 5.9 million for the year. If we look at investing cash flow, obviously we did acquire Powerwrap, which had a positive cash balance, so the net inclusion was AUD 1.2 million. We've continued our capitalization of R&D. You can see that was AUD 6.8 million for the year. Total net investing cash flow was AUD 6.5 million. Financing cash flow referred to the drawdown of a loan, which is obviously for the Powerwrap. We had an AUD 15 million loan for the Powerwrap acquisition. At 30 June, we have AUD 13.6 million remaining of that loan.
Closing cash balance of AUD 26.7 million. Final slide from me on slide 15 is our balance sheet. You'll see that we continue to have a strong balance sheet. As we said, cash reserves are AUD 26 million. Our regulatory cash requirement is AUD 12 million, so obviously strong cash reserves above our regulatory cash. We have increased intangibles following the acquisition of Powerwrap, which added AUD 47 million to goodwill. In terms of tax commentary, that we have around AUD 8 million of remaining tax losses that we'll be able to utilize in future periods for Powerwrap tax losses, and franking credits standard, AUD 12 million. Final table at the bottom is just calling out some of the major one-off costs during the year. Obviously, you can see the major one was the acquisition cost relating to Powerwrap.
We have had some restructuring costs relating to some of the Since we've taken on Powerwrap, in terms of Powerwrap integration, and some U.K. restructuring. With that, I will hand back to Anthony, and we'll move on to slide 17.
Great. Thanks, Paul. Looking forward, as it says there, gaining share of the Australian platform market. Both the strong growth in our market share and the number of top advisors using our range of service provide evidence of the quality of the Praemium offer. The flexibility of owning our own technology means that we can be very responsive to clients' feedback. The platform of everything is an accurate summary of what we offer to advisors, which allows them to better serve their clients. If I move on to slide 18 and talk about the strong momentum, we do carry much stronger momentum into FY 2022 than we did into last year across all of our platform segments. If we move to slide 19, and I just summarize this slide.
We are confident that the past year, which we call a year of transformation, and I think it's an accurate summary of where we were this year, has seen us complete what I would anticipate to be a one-off jump in expenses when compared to our revenue. Obviously, the fact that EBITDA was relatively flat this year meant that we effectively added AUD 1 in expense for every new AUD 1 in revenue. Whilst we're not providing a forecast at this point in time, we certainly do not expect that pattern needs to continue in the coming years, and that every dollar should come less than AUD 1 of expense. If I move on to slide 20, and we've obviously announced the proposed divestment of the international business.
We're still in the stage of preparing the information ready for release to those who have expressed interest, and then that more formal part of the process will commence shortly. We'd expect to be in a position to provide a further update to shareholders at or shortly after our AGM. As mentioned in our July release, we have received strong interest from a broad range of interested potential buyers. With that, I'll bring from Paul and I to a close and open it up for questions.
Thank you. Your first question comes from Danny Younis from Shaw and Partners. Please go ahead.
Good morning, Anthony. Good morning, Paul. I've got three questions if I can. The first one's around the expenses. How should we look at expenses in FY 2022? If I look at it on an FY 2021 basis, your sales and marketing is up AUD 3 million and your IT is up AUD 1.5 million, according to slide 10. Should we expect similar run rates in FY 2022 in terms of incremental increases? Preferably an answer that splits out international as well, please.
Thanks, Danny. I'll hand that one over to Paul.
Thanks, Anthony, and morning, Danny. Yeah, I suppose what we've certainly seen in this year, Danny, is a step up. We have called out our increase in sales and marketing in prior financial years, and we have seen that step up. I think, as Anthony just referred to, we would expect expenses to move on a more incremental rate from here. Obviously we've bedded down the acquisition of Powerwrap. We do have some continuing synergy that will flow into next year. Sales and marketing is certainly more at a stable level in terms of run rate going forward. In terms of the international expenses, total expenses in international was just under AUD 10 million for the full year, Danny. Again, as I mentioned earlier, the expenses there have been reasonably stable at 2% growth.
The Australian business in particular has been supporting that accelerating growth in inflows and client onboarding. Obviously, particularly in the last quarter of the financial year was very strong. That support will obviously flow into revenue growth into the coming periods.
Okay, thanks. On the platform revenue yields, the 22 basis points, it's down on your first half performance. If I remember correctly, it was around 28 basis points. Clearly the factor there is Powerwrap. Powerwrap continues to slide from a few years ago, it was in the mid-20 basis points down to, I think, 22 basis points in the first half. It's now at 19 basis points. Where do we see stabilization of those platform revenue yields for Powerwrap?
Yeah. Oh, sorry, Anthony.
No, sorry, Paul. I was going to let you deal with that. Thank you.
Yes. No, thank you. Yes, I think 19 basis points, 20 basis points, Danny, is probably more the realistic level. What we saw in previous periods was higher transaction volumes and higher cash volumes during the COVID period. Obviously, there was a normalization of those levels, certainly in this half. I suppose all you see in this particular half is January, February are traditionally quieter months for transaction volumes, but otherwise things are back to a normal level. We certainly expect that low 20 basis points for the Powerwrap platform is a reasonable number. Obviously you've noted that our Praemium platform has remained consistent. The first half was 34 basis points, full year's been 33 basis points. Again, we're not seeing pricing degradation on the Praemium platform as well.
Okay, thanks. Maybe one more, Paul, for you again, just on the R&D CapEx. You pretty well flagged in the first half that it would double in the second half of AUD 3.4 going to AUD 6.8. How should we look at that R&D CapEx going forward? If you split out international over the next 12 months, what's the split between, say, platforms, Powerwrap, et cetera?
Yeah. As we said, we did call out, it would be around the AUD 7 million mark, and it's obviously just under that. In terms of the number, we expect it would be similar to that range, perhaps slightly lower going forward. Obviously, as we start to migrate some of the Powerwrap R&D onto Praemium platforms, there may be a reduction at that point. In terms of CapEx for the international business, that was just under AUD 1 million, Danny. So we'd expect that that level would probably continue into the following year.
Great. Thanks, guys.
Thank you. Your next question comes from Nic Burgess from Ord. Please go ahead.
Yeah, morning, gents. Just two, three quick questions. Just Powerwrap, that AUD 16.3 million revenue call. I think in FY 2020, Powerwrap reported AUD 21 million revenue. What's the annualized rate of revenue for Powerwrap over the 12 months?
Yeah, Nic. Yeah, AUD 16.8 million was obviously for the 10 months. Obviously if you annualize that, you'll get more to the AUD 18 million, AUD 19 million levels. They did certainly call out in the previous financial year accelerated transaction volumes during COVID, and higher cash balances. That was certainly some feedback from their FY 2020 financial year. In terms of where we see the revenue now, we see that certainly more at a normalized level. Powerwrap is growing clients. Obviously we've been reporting record inflows in the Australian business, both for the Praemium and the Powerwrap platform, and they are onboarding clients. I think now that we're more of that normalized transaction volume level, we would expect to see revenue start to grow on the Powerwrap business as well.
Okay, thanks. That's helpful. Just to the gross margin of the group, obviously, there's a Powerwrap impact, and it's jumped around a bit. What's a reasonable expectation for the group moving forward, taking into account the investment that you mentioned and also the two sides of the business.
Yeah. I think on gross margin, you can see that we have normalized half on half around that 70% level. That has obviously incorporated some of the increased cost of operations as more as a step-up in this financial year. I think as that revenue continues to scale now, we would expect to see gross margins starting to pick up again into future periods. Obviously, in the prior financial year, it was 79%. I think with the Powerwrap business, obviously there will be a normalized range probably between those two numbers. Over time, we would expect to see margin improvement, certainly in gross margin into the next financial year and beyond.
Yeah. Okay. If we think about the international versus domestic business from a gross margin perspective, is there a marked difference?
Not a particularly marked difference, Nic. Again, what we've seen in the international business is obviously its ability to grow the platform revenue strongly. Obviously, with 30% revenue growth, off a reasonably stable cost base. There's no reason for that profile to change into the future year. If we can continue to grow revenue strongly, and have incremental growth at the cost of operations fund, then again, we would see margin expansion at gross margins for the international business as well.
Okay, thanks. Just lastly, on that international business, total funds on platform up 55%. Obviously 30% revenue growth, and there's going to be an averaging impact. Is that revenue momentum perhaps a little bit disappointing in the context of that funds growth, and are there any underlying pricing trends we need to be aware of in that market?
No pricing trends, Nic. It's more about the timing of the inflows. The third and fourth quarter of FY 2021 were certainly the strongest. What you'll see is that revenue momentum will now flow into the future periods. That's really as we average, as our pricing is based on an average of monthly flow, as it's been building strongly towards the end, we'll start to see that acceleration into FY 2022.
Okay, great. Thank you.
Thank you. Your next question comes from Lafitani Sotiriou from MST Financial. Please go ahead.
Hi. Good morning, guys. Three questions if I may. The first is a follow-up question to the platform margin. Can you just clarify what the second half 2021 exit rate is for both Powerwrap and your core Praemium platform? Are we talking 17 basis points for Powerwrap and around 32 basis points for Praemium? Am I looking at that the right way?
Morning, Laf. Yeah. Obviously we've said for the full year, Praemium 33 basis points, Powerwrap 19 basis points. In terms of expectations into the future period, we think those levels are reasonable and consistent.
The exit rate in the second half looks like, if you look at first half versus second half, there's a noticeable drop. You've gone from AUD 21 million to around AUD 17 million for Powerwrap to get to.
Yeah.
To get to the full year 2019.
The anomaly drop is really the timing of some of those transaction volumes, particularly in January and February. Once you exclude that, obviously the transaction volumes in future months were consistent. There's a bit of normal seasonality within that period. Into the next half, Laf, we would expect to be at that sort of 19 basis points- 20 basis points range as we've mentioned.
Okay. No, that makes sense. Just moving on to the international business. It's been restated, UAE is now included. The cost base is high and the earnings have gone backwards. Can you just talk us through the level of interest at this loss-making rate in terms of pricing level? Have you got any indication at all that you can share with us at this stage? Also, what's the cost in splitting out the business? Is this a short-term thing or will it take a while?
Yeah. Hi, Laf. Sorry, I won't comment on the. Anthony's given an update on slide 20 on the process, so I'll refer to him. Just to note that the segment result did improve. It wasn't worse. It was a 7% improvement.
Sorry. It hasn't improved versus what you-- FY 2020 has been restated, and it's gone backwards. I imagine the trajectory of how you've included the UAE in it this time, and I haven't gone through it in detail, but it looks like you've changed it around.
If you refer to slide 13, with the inclusion of Dubai, we've had a 7% improvement in the loss to AUD 3.9 million. That's the like-to-like reporting that you'll see there in the segment results. In terms of the actual process itself, Anthony's referred to some strong interest and I'll hand to him to comment further.
Laf, if I've got your question right, I think it was a bit about what are the one-off costs going to look like in terms of splitting and then spinning the business. We would expect that they'll be consistent with the transaction costs of divesting any part of the business.
That would include the splitting of the two businesses. There's been a fair bit of work go into how we would actually split the international from the Australian component of the business, and that to date is not throwing up any excessive cost as part of that separation.
Yeah. No, thanks for that. What about timing? Do you reckon that could be done in a reasonable amount of time?
I think the timing, it will be done in a time consistent with the sale process. I don't think the sale process will be held up by the internal work we've got to do to separate the two businesses.
Okay. Just a final question for you, Anthony. Could you talk us through the process that the board took that resulted in the sudden departure of Michael, former CEO? Was there something that we are missing? From an investor perspective, it happened quite suddenly. Can you shed some more light on the matter?
I can't really shed any more light on what we've said already. I think I had that feedback that it all appeared a bit sudden and the board's taken that on board. Other than what we've said already, there's nothing more to say about it.
Sorry, can I be a bit more specific? It seems like that Michael wasn't even aware of his departure until the announcement came out. Is this correct? I think given the sudden departure that probably the investors deserve a little bit more than what you've provided so far.
I think if Michael was surprised, I can't comment on that. We appreciate it. We've taken on board the feedback that it did appear sudden to the market. Sometimes that is the nature of these things.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. Once again, if you wish to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. Your next question comes from Nick McGarrigle from Barrenjoey. Please go ahead.
G'day. Just on the international sale, I wanted to clarify a couple of things. The tax loss situation there, have you got any clarity as to what the circumstances around that being transferable to the new owner might be?
Hi, Nick. Paul here. We're obviously as part of the divestment process, working with Deloitte, in terms of preparing IM and relevant components, and tax is obviously an element of that. We are reviewing that at the moment. At this stage, I don't have any further comment, but I can assure you we are reviewing that at the moment.
Right. I'm not sure if you can give us any update. You mentioned preparing an IM. Does that imply that the business hasn't yet been marketed to potential buyers other than at a high level?
Yeah, that's right. We haven't had to market it so far. Just by making the announcement, we've had very strong and broad interest. No, we wouldn't start the formal marketing of it till we've got an information memorandum together and a data room ready for those who look keen enough to take it to the next step and give us some non-binding interest in that regard.
Yeah. I guess if we look at some transactions in the last 18 months, the implied valuation for the Praemium business could be towards AUD 80 million. Is that where you're seeing interest? I think you've made some comments on that in the past.
We don't think it's to our shareholders' advantage to say too much at this point about the price expectation. Obviously we can say that the business continues to perform very strongly with solid pipeline of revenue and some very strong technology.
Based on the process that you're running, is there a deadline as to when bids might be due once you do launch the IM and give those details?
Again, just as per what we said a bit ago, we haven't committed to a firm timeline. We expect that by the time of the AGM, we should be in a position to give an update on what the timeline's looking like.
Just turning to the Australian flows at AUD 471 million for July, can you give us a sense of the split between Praemium and Powerwrap just in broad terms? I guess it's important just in terms of modeling. What's driving that uplift, if there's anything you can point to specifically?
I think it just is the ongoing momentum, to the second part of your question. In terms of a split, it's something like about 60% Praemium, 40% Powerwrap in broad terms. I anticipate, going forward, this number, we no longer refer to a need to exclude the ANZ transition. It's a total net flows for Praemium.
In terms of the total net flows you quoted there at AUD 471 million, does that include the ongoing exit of the ANZ business? Because I understand there was still an amount of money remaining.
Yeah. As I say, AUD 471 million doesn't have a carve-out or an exclusion of the ANZ.
To read that in old terms where you did exclude the ANZ business, then the number would actually be higher?
Yes, that's right, Nick. Yeah. It would be higher if we'd carved it out. As I say, probably to just make it a bit clearer going forward, at this stage, we would anticipate we'd just start declaring the net flows rather than carving out that transition.
Yeah. In terms of the costs, was it just the inclusion of the UAE business in the international segment that led to the restatement of the prior year in terms of cost? Maybe that's a question for Paul.
Yeah
that did change quite materially what that result was in FY 2020.
Yeah. Hi, Nick. That's the only change in the International. Obviously, with the announcement of the divestment, we've now included all relevant entities that are part of that divestment. Dubai initially sat under a legal entity in Australia, that's why therefore it was reporting under an Australian legal segment. The only change is obviously the move from the Dubai entity from Australia to International.
Cool. Thank you. There was AUD 6 million of synergies targeted with the Powerwrap merger. Is that still the target? I noticed that wasn't reiterated in the presentation. I think you mentioned that AUD 3 million annualized was extracted by the end of FY 2021. What was the actual realization during FY 2021? If you can give us some more detail on those synergies.
Yeah. Hi, Nick. Now, in terms of affirming the AUD 6 million of annualized synergy by the end of FY 2022, that's certainly something we're certainly targeting. In terms of annualized savings, as I said, it was AUD 3 million for the FY 2021 financial year. In terms of what it actually was for FY 2021, obviously, it was lower than that number. It was just above AUD 2 million.
All right. Cool. In terms of the AUD 8 million, it's interesting to split up the business, obviously, given you flagged the sale of international operations. I guess some of the key items there, you flagged CapEx was about AUD 1 million in the international business. Of the AUD 8 million in D&A, how much of that could we expect to leave the business if and when you sell international?
In terms of D&A, I'll need to just jump back, but it'll be a lower component. At the moment, we are amortizing the Australian R&D projects obviously over that three-year rate. We have commenced some of the amortization on the international projects, but as you said, we capitalized just under AUD 1 million in this financial year. You can obviously model that from there over a three-year period. It will be obviously a lower amount.
All right. Thank you. Of the eight, is it safe to assume it's about 20% or something like that from those proportions?
Well, as I mentioned, within the eight, it's just under AUD 1 million for international for FY 2021.
Right. Within the EBITDA, not just the CapEx. You mentioned CapEx as a bit below AUD 1 million.
Yeah
The same number roughly for the D&A.
No. For FY 2021, it would be a little bit lower than AUD 1 million. Yes.
Okay. All right. I'll let someone else chip in with questions. Thank you.
Thank you. There are no further questions at this time. I'll now hand back to Mr. Wamsteker for closing remarks.
Thank you. Well, thank you everyone for your interest today. I look forward to meeting many of the shareholders in the coming weeks and at the AGM, albeit probably virtually, it still looks like at this stage, unfortunately. Thank you for your interest in our presentation, and we'll close the meeting now. Thank you.
Thank you. That does conclude our conference for today. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.