Welcome to the Perenti FY23 results call. I'll now pass you over to the company to start the call.
Welcome, and thank you for joining the Perenti 2023 financial year results call. My name is Mark Norwell, Managing Director and CEO of Perenti, and with me is Peter Bryant, our CFO. Moving on from our disclaimers and on to slide four. Perenti's financial performance continues to go from strength to strength, and this is a result that everyone at Perenti can be proud of. We are pleased to report that our performance that delivered record first-half financial results continued into the second half. Our ongoing focus on operational performance, supported by favorable commercial outcomes and improving macroeconomic conditions, underpin Perenti delivering record financial results for FY23.
Our revenue of AUD 2.9 billion was up 18% from the previous year. As our growth projects continue to deliver a greater proportion of earnings, our EBITDA was up 30% to a record AUD 553 million. EBITDA was up 50% to a record AUD 264 million, which is at the top end of our revised FY23 guidance range. Group EBITDA margin was 9.2%, our best result for several years. Our overall performance, along with our continued strategic focus on capital management and the delivery of strong cash back profits, resulted in record underlying NPATA of AUD 132 million, up 58% from AUD 83.6 million in FY22. These headline P&L figures have also translated across to our balance sheet and our cash flow statement.
Our free cash for the full year was AUD 271 million, which is up AUD 102 million since FY22 and up nearly AUD 200 million from the first half of this year. I don't want to steal Pete's thunder, as he will go into this in greater detail later in the presentation. This is a very pleasing result. It underlines how strong our business is now and what the disciplined execution of our 2025 strategy is capable of delivering. Leverage for the year was 0.9 times due to our record EBITDA and reduced net debt, which is in part due to timing of capital spending.
While we are below our 2025 leverage target of less than 1x, we will continue to be disciplined with our capital allocation to generate returns for shareholders, including giving due consideration to dividends in future periods. Finally, but by no means least, is our Return on Average Capital Employed at 21.1%, up significantly from 15.2% in FY22 and exceeding our target of 20%, which again, is something that we are extremely pleased with. This has been a very successful financial year for Perenti. This is the type of performance we can and should expect from the business, and is an important milestone on our journey to deliver enduring value for our shareholders, as well as our clients, communities where we work, and importantly, our people. Of course, it doesn't end here.
We still see opportunities for further growth and at the same time, improved operational performance. We plan to keep building from here with the expected inclusion of DDH1 into our portfolio. We certainly have the people, the capability, and the opportunities to do even better, and that's what we are aiming for going forward. Slide five, Business Overview. Before we go further, I want to provide an update on the tragic event at Dugald River in February this year, where Trevor Davis and Dylan Langridge were fatally injured in an underground incident, with our thoughts continuing to be with the families, friends and colleagues of Trevor and Dylan. Several internal investigations have been concluded and we continue to support, where needed, the ongoing external regulatory investigations.
While our lagging safety indicator, Total Recordable Injury Frequency Rate, or TRIR, has improved significantly year-on-year, the incident at Dugald River is a stark reminder of the inherent risks in our industry. We continue to focus on improving our safety performance, we are 100% committed to doing everything we can to eliminate fatalities in underground mining and mining more broadly. This year, we established a Safety Transformation Task Force, supported by globally renowned safety experts, Professor Sidney Dekker and Peter Wilkinson. This task force is led at board level by myself and Alex Atkins, has the responsibility of understanding and improving everything we do in safety across the organization. We have also formalized our commitment to allocate capital towards future-focused strategic initiatives, which includes investment in technology and engineering solutions to further mitigate and ultimately eliminate and eliminate risks inherent in underground mining.
Outside of safety initiatives, we will also allocate a portion of our annual free cash flow towards the development of services related to decarbonization and electrification, plus digital product development for idoba. Despite the ongoing tightness of the labor market in FY23, our workforce remained at circa 9,000, with approximately 57% of our workforce in Africa, 39% in Australia, and 4% in North America. In support of our future growth endeavors, we have a very strong pipeline of apprentices and trainees, with 412 currently employed in Australia. These apprentices and trainees equate to 11.5% of our Australian workforce and comprise a loyal and career-focused cohort of young people who will help us deal with future staffing needs. We are also providing additional investment in our leaders to further embed the diverse, inclusive and engaged workplace culture.
During the year, 60 senior leaders completed our Leading@Perenti program, with further programs being run in FY24. The often negative experiences of women in the mining industry had a significant focus during the year by Perenti and the industry as a whole. At Perenti, we are focused on creating a safe and respectful workplace, and we join many of our clients in delivering a campaign and awareness program to further educate employees about harmful behaviors at work. The board also signed off on Perenti's comprehensive roadmap that sets a multi-year plan to create a diverse and inclusive workplace, including a target for women to hold 40% of executive positions by 2030. From a commercial perspective, we completed value-accreted capital management activities, buying back bonds at 91.5% of their face value, which are now trading at approximately 98%.
Since we commenced the share buyback in June of 2022, we bought back 25 million shares at an average price of AUD 0.94 per share. We continued to progress with the development of the suite of products and services of idoba. The Sumitomo Corporation acquired a 10% minority stake of idoba, supporting an enterprise value of AUD 80 million. This is an important step in the evolution of idoba, and it represents a significant vote of confidence in idoba by a major multinational, national player in the mining and technology sectors. In November 2022, Perenti announced a strategic partnership with ABB for the electrification of mines, and in June 2023, this partnership was awarded the pre-feasibility electrification study of the Cosmos Underground Mine for IGO.
As I reflect on the year, I'm proud of the whole Perenti team, the degree of unity and purpose across the organization, and the commitment of our people to deliver great results. Our strong financial performance is, of course, tempered by the tragic event at Dugald River. As an organization, we are focused on improving all aspects of our business, with no area more critical than the safety of our people. Slide six. We have published our fourth sustainability report, which sees us continuing to make significant progress on our sustainability strategy. During FY23, we completed 78% of our sustainability commitments and made significant progress on others. We established 4 executive-sponsored steering groups to drive action on our five sustainability priorities.
We published our climate change position statement and undertook a climate scenario analysis with wide input from senior leaders, executives, and board members, along with internal and external subject matter experts. Apart from highlighting our sustainability progress to date, we've also announced that in FY24, we will increase our sustainability reporting suite. We also announced the progressive strengthening of our commitment to make meaningful, positive, and lasting changes to our workplaces and to the broader environment. Most importantly, we reiterate our target of no negative life-changing events to our people across the business. We've also strengthened our diversity targets, seeking 40% female representation across our executives and board by 2030, and 33% female representation across the organization by 2033. We've also announced our net zero Scope 1 and 2 emissions by 2030, with a near-term target of 40% reduction by 2026.
This is against an FY22 baseline and will be adjusted for any acquisitions. Importantly, these targets reiterate that we are serious about our commitment to creating enduring value and certainty for all our stakeholders. This includes our stakeholders of today, but also for those of tomorrow. To achieve this, we really must embed sustainability into everything we do. Moving to the business performance section, starting on slide eight. This is a very positive slide, demonstrating three consecutive periods of improvement across critical financial performance metrics. FY23 has been a record year for us.
We saw an 18% increase in revenue, with the pull-through to EBITDA and EBITDA as a result of the corporate and operating disciplines that we have embedded within all areas of our business over the last four and a half years, resulting in EBITDA of over AUD 500 million, EBITDA, AUD 264 million, and a 21% Return on Average Capital Employed. Incorporated within the FY23 performance are some elements that we called out in the first half of the year. During FY23, our performance was also helped by improving macroeconomic conditions, including easing of labor market tightness and supply chains, favorable movement in the US dollar to the Australian dollar foreign exchange ratio, along with a retrospective rate adjustment. Slide nine, underground mining.
As forecast, our underground mining business delivered an uplift in performance, underpinned by the previously announced improvement in rates, and as labor and load productivity improved in line with the easing of the tight Australian labor market. Revenue and earnings benefited from the continued ramp-up of key growth projects, as well as percentage margin improvement. Looking ahead to FY24, our underground mining business is running exceptionally well, and we have an expectation that a margin of around 12% is achievable, considering the current suite of projects and the respective forecasts. Slide 10, surface mining. Our surface mining business has yet again delivered another improved set of results, with most projects performing very well and the business generating a 20 times earning improvement when compared to FY21.
This turnaround is absolutely fantastic. While we do not currently forecast another 20 times increase, we do see earnings and margin improvement in FY24. As you can see, even if we were to exclude the impact of the ELIP and the retrospective rate revision, the performance of our surface business has delivered consecutive periods of growth, driven by strong performance in Mako, Motheo, and Mateo. I think that this slide demonstrates something that I'm most proud of. In early FY20, we announced that we were embarking on a transformational journey within OMS. Looking at it today, it is clear that the comprehensive improvement plan that was developed and executed by the team is clearly delivering value upside. This improved performance demonstrates the quality of people across the business. When the team are aligned and are focused on delivering improvements, they achieve exceptional results. Slide 11.
Our mining services and idoba divisions delivered increased revenue on strong demand for their services. Our Supply Direct and BTP businesses both delivered increased revenue and earnings on strong demand. BTP delivered stronger earnings by improved fleet utilization and part sales. Supply Direct is capitalizing on greater service demand by being well-positioned to navigate improving the still difficult global supply chains. As outlined in the first half, mining services earnings this year, as softer as improved performance, was offset by some restructuring costs. The larger driver of the FY23 earnings performance is related to the investment that has been made in the development of products within idoba. At this development stage of this journey, we are encouraged by the revenue growth and that the trading business remains profitable. Given our investment in the development of these products, the impact on P&L of the mining services business is apparent.
In FY24, we expect to carve out the idoba business and provide further disclosure on its performance. What we can say is that idoba is still in its startup phase, but revenue is trending upwards and the business is performing to expectations at this stage of its development. Slide 12. This is a key metric for us, and I want to be clear that despite corporate activity, Perenti will continue to strive towards its FY25 targets. Corporate activity represents upside of these targets, and we will not simply lose sight of these targets in the face of potential change. As we have stated before, any corporate activity must complement and improve the performance of our underlying business, and the DDH1 acquisition, which I'll talk to later in the presentation, provides exactly that.
As you can see, since we first presented this slide in June 2022, we've made great progress on our margin expansion, and we continue to identify opportunities to grow margin towards 10%. We are confident in our ability to continue to extract value from our current suite of projects, but these remaining few percentage points are more challenging to deliver on when compared to those first percentage points. We will remain disciplined with the opportunities for further improvements within our current suite of projects and businesses. We'll continue to utilize and adopt the products and services of idoba, and we'll seek to identify innovative initiatives to further improve business performance and optimize our overhead structure. Thank you, and I'll now hand to Peter Bryant.
Thanks, Mark. Welcome to everybody on the call. As Mark said, FY23 was a very strong year financially. The results we are presenting are the best numbers we've seen, from revenue to EBIT to free cash flow and leverage, all the financial metrics for the year are sensational. This very strong financial performance reflects a couple of things going our way, including the weakening of the Australian dollar relative to the US dollar. Most significantly, the result reflects the continued effort and commitment of our global workforce of circa 9,000. It is their effort and commitment, often working in harsh environments, enabling Mark and I to be sitting here in the Perth board room, presenting these record results to you. Slide 14 summarizes the underlying profit and loss for the period.
When presenting this slide for the first half, I called out how gratifying it was to be running through a slide that shows uninterrupted green arrows. For the full year, it is equally gratifying. The positive momentum in the business has continued, and for the full year, we have delivered a series of green arrows. Mark has been through the performance of Perenti and the divisions to the end of level. My focus on this slide will be on the drivers of the numbers below EBIT, which in simple terms, means interest and tax expense for the year. Interest expense being the delta between EBIT and PBT, was AUD 62 million, which is up on the AUD 55 million recorded in the prior year, an increase of AUD 7 million. When we presented the results for the half, we saw interest up AUD 5 million on the prior corresponding period.
Pleasingly, there was a positive trend in the second half. The primary drivers for the increase in interest expense should not be a surprise to those of you who are familiar with our debt structure. Our core debt is a $433 million bond, and although the interest rate on the debt is fixed at 6.5%, the debt is denominated in US dollars. The relative softening of the Australian dollar has seen interest expense increase. This core debt is supported by a multi-currency revolving credit facility. The RCF has a floating interest rate, so the multiple interest rates across the year have had a direct impact on the interest payable on the RCF. I'll talk a bit more about our debt, the quantity we've paid down, and the impending refinance in the coming slides. Moving to tax.
For the second last bullet point, our effective tax rate for the year came in at 34.6%, which was slightly below the half-year effective rate and our forecast rate of 36%. This improvement reflects the efforts of our very dedicated tax team, who are always looking for ways to effectively manage our global tax exposure. Moving forward, on the assumption that the DDH1 deal is approved by their shareholders, we see some great synergies in the tax area. Without DDH1, we will see continued upward pressure on our effective tax rate, given our global mix of earnings. Moving on to slide 15, which shows the reconciliation between our underlying and statutory result. As is the case when we presented the half-year results, the numbers are pretty clean. Looking at the NPAT line, the underlying result...
for FY23 was AUD 131.8 million, which is slightly above, I should say, very slightly above the statutory result before amortization that came in at AUD 131.7 million. The adjustments made are broadly consistent with those made at the half and are, in my view, reasonably self-explanatory. If we delve into the details of the financial statements, you will be able to reconcile specific numbers back to this table. Please feel free to reach out, and we can provide any clarification required. Moving on to slide 16, cash flow and cash conversion, which I think is one of the highlight slides in the deck, as the free cash flow numbers are impressive.
Cash flow conversion, being the conversion of EBITDA to cash flow from operations, finished the year at 95%, which although down on the record-breaking conversion achieved last year, reflects an improvement of the 75% conversion delivered for the half. You may recall at the half, we included a table in the results deck that called out the key drivers that contributed to the conversion to the half dropping. When presenting the table, we indicated the second half would be stronger and we would be back at circa 90%. To hit 95% is another example of Perenti delivering. Running down the table, I talked earlier about the drivers to the increase in P&L interest, and those same factors saw cash interest increase for the period. Impressively, cash tax was down year-on-year, despite a significant step up in earnings.
I talked about the effective tax rate earlier, but cash tax and effective tax are two different things. The cash tax saving was due to the combined impact of the prepayment of some withholding tax on international dividends last year and the implementation of several global tax initiatives in relation to our operations in West Africa. The tax team has delivered this year, and they continue to work on ways to efficiently manage our international tax arrangements moving forward. Our total capital expenditure, being sustained business capital plus growth capital, less proceeds from the sale of plant and equipment and inventory for the year, was AUD 208.8 million, which is below guidance by AUD 9 million and reflects one of the lowest capital spends for several years.
When we presented the updated capital guidance at the strategy update in June, we did call out that there was potential downside opportunity due to equipment delivery schedules as we approached the end of the financial year. That scenario has materialized, which is reflected in the delta to guidance. Proceeds from the sale of property, plant and equipment and inventory at AUD 93 million was higher than million. Managing our fleet and either redeploying assets or selling them to reallocate the capital is part of what we do. It's a fundamental element of running the business and managing capital. A key component to the proceeds was the sale of the Subika fleet to Newmont as part of the renegotiation of the Subika contract. The operating cash flow, which Mark spoke to, of AUD 270.7 million, was up over AUD 100 million on the prior corresponding period.
This is a number that we're very, very proud of. We've now set ourselves a high bar for the future. Cash flow, excluding financing activities and shareholder returns for the prior corresponding period, was skewed by the inclusion of AUD 121 million proceeds from sales in FY22, which included MinAnalytical, Well Control Solutions, Chrysos, and some property. Excluding these, we've seen cash flow, excluding finance activities and shareholder returns, improving by circa AUD 217 million year-on-year. What did we do with the cash? We paid down AUD 121.7 of revolving credit from lease finance debt. We bought back AUD 24.9 million of our higher bonds on market. We bought back AUD 21.4 million worth of shares. All in all, a very rewarding year from a cash flow perspective. Moving on to slide 17.
The information presented in this chart is effectively the same information that was presented in the table on the prior slide, so I don't have any additional commentary. That said, it's a cool slide, and I want to include it for those who prefer charts to tables. On to slide 18, the final slide in this section of the deck, which reflects the liquidity of the group at 30th June 2023. I appreciate some may be looking at this slide and seeing total borrowings of AUD 806.4 million, which is down circa AUD 95 million on the prior corresponding period, and thinking, "What's going on?" Because just then, they paid down the RCF by AUD 121.7 million and bought back higher bonds of AUD 24.9 million. That's close to AUD 147 million reduction in debt.
As I mentioned when talking through the movement in our interest expense, our higher bond is denominated in US dollars. As the Australian dollar softens during the period, we saw the value of the debt on the balance sheet increase. Our RCF is multicurrency and some of our equipment finance is also in non-Australian dollar facilities. The delta between the cash outflow and the movement in debt balance is, in large part, relates to currency movements. In addition, there is an increase in the liability related to the office lease extensions. When it comes to currency exposure, we have a natural hedge in that our foreign operations are, in effect, US dollar denominated. From a treasury management perspective, our decision not to enter into currency hedges or swaps is sound, but we do see movement in the Australian dollar debt levels as currencies move.
Likewise, we see currency movements when we consolidate the balance sheets and profit and loss of our foreign operations. Our cash holding at 30 June was a total of AUD 300 million. This is higher than we would like and is reflective of the global nature of our business. We then need to move it back to Australia to enable us to pay down the RCF. Net debt for the year was AUD 499 million, resulting in a very clean leverage of 0.9 times, which Mark talked to earlier in the presentation. Gearing for the year was 25.9%. This means both leverage and gearing were the best they have been since the formation of Perenti.
You can see from the bottom bullet point on the slide, available liquidity sitting at AUD 607.7 million, reflecting cash and undrawn RCF capacity. Finally, on this slide, as many would be aware, our US higher bonds mature in October of 2025, Thus we'll be looking to refinance prior to going current in October of 2024. We're currently working through what this refinance exercise will look like, including the impact of DDH1 on the Perenti group. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you, I'll now hand it back to Mark.
Thank you, Peter. Moving to slide 20. Firstly, I want to reiterate some of Peter's sentiments. Our strong operational performance delivered a record Perenti performance, and through our disciplined approach to cash and capital management, we've seen an exceptional step-up in free cash, and our balance sheet is in great shape. Across almost every financial metric, the business is performing how we would like it to, and our portfolio of businesses and projects have strategically positioned us to capitalize on the longer-term dynamic that we are seeing in the mining sector. Our acquisition, DDH1, as announced in late June of this year, is another step in the evolution of Perenti. This is a value-accretive opportunity that will create the largest ASX-listed contract mining services company.
It will provide us with the second-largest fleet of drill rigs globally, with a combined entity, 95% exposed to the development and production phase of the mining sector, and 65% exposed to underground activities. The financial and operational aspects of this transaction are compelling and will create meaningful value for all our stakeholders across the short, medium, and longer term. Slide 21. The initial share price reaction to the DDH1 transaction suggests the strategic rationale may not have been clearly understood. We have continued to engage with the market to communicate the significant benefits of the transaction. The next few slides outline the value proposition. I don't propose to go through all aspects, but I want to highlight some standouts on this page. With the inclusion of DDH1, we are forecasting double-digit EPS accretion and the delivery of material post-tax synergies that are not at risk.
Even without the synergies, this transaction is value accretive for all shareholders. The consolidated business will be approaching ASX 200 scale, and the free float pro forma market cap is estimated at AUD 1.2 billion, making Perenti the number one ASX-listed contract mining services company. Post the transaction, our Australian earnings will increase to 55%. We will generate significantly more free cash, and therefore, the business will have a greater pool of capital from which to return value to shareholders. The consolidated entity will see the accelerated delivery of Perenti's FY25 targets. As I've stated before, this does not mean that the underlying Perenti business will not continue to progress towards achieving our previously stated 2025 targets.
We will, we will remain disciplined in our approach to capital and cash allocation, we'll be relentless as we continue to look for opportunities to improve business performance. Slide 22. This table has been updated to reflect the pro forma FY23 results to account for Perenti actuals with DDH1 estimates, showing the FY23 pro forma outcomes. With Perenti delivering improved business performance, we are pleased with the FY23 pro forma of the combined entity has also improved. As we have shown in several other slides, when the Perenti team is aligned and focused, we are confident in delivering outstanding results, based on the discussions we have had with DDH1, we share common values and aspirations, which we believe will translate into something bigger than the sum of the parts. Slide 23.
To close out on, I think that this slide sums up the rationale for the acquisition. The combination of DDH1 and Perenti has clear strategic alignment. It bolsters our underground service capability, and it broadens our service offerings and scale. We conducted deep due diligence and evaluated a number of scenarios to understand what the upside and downside may represent, we are confident that the value that we have ascribed represents both a fair and reasonable price for a quality and complementary business. We have nearly 40 years of experience in the drilling industry, we understand the value drivers, the inherent risks, and the opportunities. When combined, the Perenti and DDH1 business will generate significant free cash and immediate shareholder value.
We look forward to a positive outcome to the DDH1 shareholder vote in September, and in the event of a positive outcome, on completion, we expect to provide further detail and clarity on the consolidated business. Slide 25. With record financial results in FY23, we are very happy to provide our FY24 guidance. Firstly, the health and safety of our people remains our top priority, and we continue to target no life-changing events. We have sadly fallen short of this objective, but our focus has not wavered, and we will continue to work to make our workplaces safer for our people. We expect our revenue to be between AUD 2.8 billion and AUD 3 billion as our growth projects hit run rates.
As a result of these projects hitting their steady state physicals, we expect to see earnings of AUD 260 million-AUD 275 million, and that CapEx will be approximately AUD 330 million and leverage between 0.8 times and 0.9 times at June 30, 2024. Slide 26. As we have demonstrated in these FY23 results, we continue to focus on capital discipline in order to optimize our operational performance and our resulting cash flows. Our record performance in FY23 demonstrates the strength of the business for FY24 to build upon. In FY24, we look forward to another year of strong operational and financial performance, driven by our dedicated and high-performing 9,000 strong workforce.
Subsequent to a positive outcome of the DDH1 shareholder vote and several other procedural steps, we look forward to welcoming the DDH1 team as we collectively move forward to create enduring value and serving for all of our stakeholders. Once again, on behalf of the board and group executive, I would like to thank everyone at Perenti for their commitment and contribution throughout the year. I also thank you, our shareholders, for your support. Thank you, we'll now take questions.
Thank you. If you wish to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. If you wish to cancel your request, please press star two. If you're on a speakerphone, please pick up the handset to ask your question. Your first question comes from Nicholas Rawlinson from Jefferies. Please go ahead. Pardon me, Nicholas. Your line is now live.[audio distortion] Thank you. Your next question comes from Roger Flynn from SSSF Asset Management. Please go ahead.
Hi, Mark. Thank you for running through that with us. You've said on multiple occasions that you're disciplined in the use of capital. Somewhat disappointingly, capital spend last year was way in excess of depreciation. A, a previous link up, I suggested you look at extending life of equipment rather than buying new capital, and I think you took that on board. Given the overrun of capital expenditure way above depreciation last year, which you explained as partly pull forward of growth capital for this period, I was a bit surprised to see your capital projection for Perenti is again, in FY24, significantly above depreciation. I wonder what you're going to do to make the capital spend come in line with what you're saying about being disciplined in the use of capital.
Yeah, Roger, thanks, thanks for the question. I do recall the previous discussion. I guess, a couple of parts to the points that you raised. One is, in terms of capital spend in FY23, we actually did come under what we had sort of previously called out. Our capital spend is a combination of both, sustained business, which goes to the depreciation, and also growth CapEx. It's a combination into FY23, and certainly was down compared to 22. We have called out that we will see some increase into 24, which we have mentioned at our June strategy session as well. Happy to sort of have a discussion offline, discuss certainly those numbers further. I will also touch on the other point regarding depreciation, certainly, and asset life for that matter.
Obviously, given the nature of our business, we do have significant value associated with mobile fleet and equipment, and it's always looked at at how do we extend the life. There's the balance between extension of life versus reliability and availability to generate returns. It certainly is a focus, particularly within the contract mining team in BTP, for looking at extension of life. I would note that as we've increased our percentage of earnings associated with underground, which has a lower capital intensity outlay at the front end of any, any contract, we have seen our return on capital employed increase, and we delivered north of 20% for the year, compared to around about 15% for the prior year. We have generated significantly increased returns on our capital employed.
To your point, Roger, we're always looking to extend the capital life, but there's the balance with the availability and reliability as well. Thank, thank you for your point. You do want to discuss any of that detail further, Roger, happy to take, take that offline.
Okay. Well, I'll call you back.
Thank you.
Thank you. Your next question comes from William Park, from Citi. Please go ahead.
Hi, all. Thanks for taking my question. I've had some issues, so I couldn't, I couldn't get majority of your commentary, unfortunately, I do apologize if this has already been covered. Just looking at your guidance, it appears to be quite conservative, given your order book and pipeline of opportunities. Just wondering how you're thinking about that. Are you taking sort of similar approach to the one that you've taken in FY23? Could you also just talk through the margin of this expansion profile across the FY26? Just looking at your midpoint of your guidance, it, it implies sort of flat, flat margin versus 23. Are you expecting sort of margin for Perenti-based business to sort of accelerate at the lat- latter stage of that towards FY25, FY26? Thank you.
Thanks, William. A couple of points to cover off there. Firstly, if we think about FY24 guidance, and your comment about being conservative, I think it's another strong year with the guidance we've put out, and it's built up from first principles from each of our operations and businesses across all the divisions within Perenti. Obviously, we're always looking for upside, and we've had strong momentum from 23 through into 24. And that, sort of giving place to a mid to the 9% EBIT margins, we do still see that as very, very positive. We wouldn't necessarily call it conservative. We'd call it pragmatic, given the conditions that we are in.
In terms of working hand, and also pipeline, we, we see significant opportunities for our pipeline in each of the operating jurisdictions that the team are focused on. As to securing those projects and then ramping those projects up, the flow-through of those projects would be more into future years in the FY24 nominal. It's in the period, so it would be over a few months period. The ramp up could be anywhere from 3 to 6 months out to 18 to 24 months, subject to the scale of the mine. I completely agree with you, recognition there, Will, that we do have a good pipeline, but that we flow in the future years. Also goes to the point regarding our margins into FY25 and beyond.
We have called out in our strategy about targeting 10% through the excellent work our teams have done over the last couple of years. We've made excellent progress towards that objective. Excuse me. Clearly, still more work to be done, and it's just not one area that you'll be looking at. We're looking at multiple areas to drive that margin increase, whether that be around overheads, whether that be around commercial terms and conditions, whether it be around productivity, whether that be around technology adoption across our businesses, there's a range of levers to pull.
The other thing I'd say, really, is obviously the focus on EBIT in one area, but then from a broader cash perspective, we're looking at the cash generation, so therefore bringing in sort of the interest and tax and other sort of elements as well. In summary, Will, on the FY24, it's a balanced position. It's a strong position. Working hand and pipeline is strong, which will generate further returns to give further step up in future years.
Thank you. Just one last one from me. I think when, when I caught up with you, with Peter and Chad, last month or so, you were talking about one of the projects as being quite close to being awarded, and obviously, that's gone to one of your competitors. Just wondering whether, whether if there's anything that you sort of would like to point out, was it pricing related, or has it been, you know, other factors that have led to this decision? Just wondering whether there are any changes to competitive dynamics or, or how your competition thinks about pricing or anything that we should be sort of aware of. Thank you.
Yeah, well, I, I guess I, I start coming on how our competition prices. I can only comment on, on how we price. The team, and particularly Joel, is within contract mining. They're a world-class team. They are very disciplined in their approach to tendering. There were opportunities if we so desired, to reduce margin and conditions, but they stuck to their, their guns and stayed on the path of commercial discipline. Why the client chose one of our competitors? I guess we'll get some feedback in due course. We'll take that on board. I would say we want to remain disciplined in terms of how we target jobs and the team did that, that well in this occasion.
Thank you. Thanks for taking my questions.
Thanks, Will.
Thank you. Your next question comes from Nicholas Rawlinson, from Jefferies. Please go ahead.
Hi, Mark and Pete. I'm sorry about before, and thanks for taking my questions. Just on the item from rate adjustment, that was AUD 11 million FY23. Could you just sort of explain exactly how that was derived and whether that could repeat or at least a portion of it?
Yeah, so that price adjustment is a mechanism within contracts that we, we have, and we have a couple contracts of a similar, similar nature. The way the mechanism works, it, it does sort of vary from sort of year to year against the budget that is set versus the actual performance within the job. There's always reviews at the end of each year, but it depends upon the broader performance and the change in the mine plan. You can't sort of bank AUD 11 million one year and then sort of bank that for the following year. There will be great adjustments to what extent we'll still work through, but our confidence is certainly higher than item I've seen previously, hence calling that out specifically.
Yeah, there's still a possibility that you could get a positive rate adjustment, just not, not to the same magnitude?
Yeah, always, always that possibility, absolutely. Whether that's pretty soon being pulled out, as you say, probably, probably not.
Okay. Just on FX, it looks like it could be a tailwind once again. Could you remind us what, what, what impact an AUD 0.01 downward move in currency has on EBIT over the course of the year?
Yeah, we set, look, we set the budget at AUD 0.68. You're right, we have had bit of a tailwind since then. It's roughly now a bit over AUD 2 million in EBIT impact.
Okay. Just on labor costs, they're up 15% for the year. How should we think about labor costs into FY24? Should we see a similar sort of growth rate, or is, is that expected to taper off?
Certainly the labor market continues to be tight, albeit the team made pretty good progress over particularly this calendar year, where we've seen turnover pretty much month-to-month decreasing. Labor rates have been increasing globally, given the inflation, the sort of what's within the market. What we have factored in, and this goes back to my point earlier about our FY24 guidance is based on first principles budget buildup. We have factored various increases into that, and with our escalation formulas in place, they will then effectively match that cost increase. As far as what it looks like this year, the way I look at it, Nick, is that they, they will be recovered through our escalation formulas, which will maintain the guidance range we put out.
Great. Thanks, Mark. Just lastly from me, I know we saw that one of the contracts that you're tendering on here in Australia went to a competitor. What, what are the other work packages in tier one jurisdictions that you're tendering on? Could you give us a rough indication on timing?
Sure. From a near-term perspective, Botswana, we've called out Botswana as a tier one jurisdiction that operating. We have secured work there in Zone Five and the Motheo project. The near term is expansion at Motheo. With Sandfire looking at the A4 deposits, we're pretty well placed as the incumbent there. Hopefully that's in the near term. We do see other opportunities for them to broader sort of southern to eastern Africa regions, which are good to operate, so looking at options there currently. Then if I go to North America, Red Chris, where we're incumbent for Canada, which project in Canada for Newcrest/Kinross. We do see good options there as that continues to grow.
We are looking at some jobs in in the U.S. with our previous head of African Underground Mining Services, Blair Sessions, they have in September to drive performance in North America, likely in in Africa as well. That some of the the options in those those parts of the world, Nick.
Any in Australia, Mark?
Yes, there are some good opportunities, including some contract extensions that we're working through. It'll come, come into play sort of second half of, well, this calendar year and early into next calendar year. Also some leads that same working through at the moment for some new projects.
Awesome. All right. That's it from me. Thanks very much, guys.
Bye.
Thank you. Once again, if you wish to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. We'll pause for any further questions to register. Thank you. The next question comes from Cameron Bell from Canaccord Genuity. Please go ahead.
Thanks. Morning, guys. Apologies if you've already answered this question, but back to the future facing, idoba spend. You've given us a pretty broad range, I guess, of potential spend. I had a couple of questions on that. Looks like you spent about AUD 13 million this last year. Is it fair to say we should expect a similar number next year?
Cameron, in terms of the, the spend last year, it would be a little bit less than the number you called out. In terms of the way we're looking at FY24, it will be sort of circa, yes, a wheel, give or take, for Idoba. As discussed in the call, when we get into reporting periods, either the half and full year for FY24, we'll, we'll be providing more detail associated with the Idoba business and calling out those, those numbers. The way we also look at those numbers, Cameron, is effectively, these are investments in product development to generate future returns. Much like when we look at equipment into mines, investment there to generate future returns as well.
What we will look at, though, in terms of the disciplined approach to product development, is making calls early on about whether we invest further money into those products or whether we sort of cut those products and sort of move to other, other opportunities. In terms of FY23, a bit less than you called out. In terms of FY24, potentially a bit more, but that will be on a case-by-case basis throughout the year.
Yep. Okay. I take it you're expecting, what, $2 million revenue in there as well?
Yeah, a bit, bit more, and we'll call that detail out in due course. Yeah, there's the underlying sort of business from the businesses that we've acquired to build out idoba, generating return, and then there's the investment through the products that run parallel to the underlying business.
Okay. That, so that AUD 15 million, that's not the drag on the guidance. It's more like that's the gross number. The net number is, you know, AUD 510 million or something.
Yeah. No, no drag on, on guidance associated with idoba. In fact, I think guidance is, is, is strong. I think the results are positive. I'd actually call out that it's actually good numbers moving, moving forward. The way to look at idoba is this is our medium to long-term play in terms of generating sort of future returns for shareholders with products in the digital space that could be quite valuable to our shareholders in the future. That's medium to longer term. They'll be happy to invest now.
Yeah, okay. I just want to touch on something you said then. You say it's not a drag on guidance. It looks like you've got AUD 260-AUD 275, and that's before the spend on idoba.
Yeah. I think if you look at that, though, when I talk about investment in product development, that's outside guidance. It's the same as CapEx investment in equipment that sits outside in terms of how we allocate cash. That's why I call it's not a drag on guidance.
Okay, but the reported EBITDA number you'll report in, say, half year or full year, will be below that AUD 260-AUD 275?
From an underlying, underlying perspective, no.
Okay. And then just the other thing, I, I don't know if you can answer this, but that line sound contract. Can you make a comment on, on what you saw as the likely CapEx number you would have to spend on that and how many people you'd have to allocate?
Both very high numbers.
Yeah. Okay, great. Thanks, guys.
Thank you. There are no further questions at this time, and I'll pass you back to the company for their closing remarks.
Okay. Well, thank you, everybody, for taking the time to join our call, and I specifically want to call out the employees across Perenti. Our team is very committed and very capable, and the results that we've just delivered are a testament to the people across the business. Looking ahead to FY24 and beyond, I'm absolutely excited about the future of Perenti. We have a clear plan, strong foundations, and excellent people. Once again, thank you for joining the call, and enjoy the remainder of your day.