Earnings Call: H1 2021

Aug 26, 2021

Good evening. Chorus Call operator speaking. Welcome to the presentation of the First Half twenty twenty one Results of the Brunello Bucinelli Group. I'd like to remind you that all participants are in a listen only mode. Following the initial presentation, there will be room for questions. Speakers will be Brunello Cucinelli, Executive Chairman and Creative Director Luca Lisandroni, of Co CEO Ricardo Stefanelli, Co CEO Moreno Charapica, CFO and Pietro Arnavoldi, Head of Investor Relations and Corporate Planning. In order to receive help from an operator during the conference call, please star followed by 0. Now I'd like to give the floor to Brunello Cucinelli. The floor is yours. Good evening and welcome back. First of all, I'd like to say that Luca and Erika do not see the co CEOs. So thank you very much. As usual, after this holiday, I say welcome back and thank you at least for me, but for everybody, after more than a year spent in fear, sometimes in pain, at least for me, in and hope for Body and Soul. So best wishes for some source of moral, civil, human economic renaissance that I think we are seeing in humanity. By the way, about a month ago, I was received by Prime Minister Draghi for a chat and he was very nice to me when I stepped into his office. He said, I'm honored of having you here. So, well, It will be surprising. I'm the one who is honored. But just to give you an idea of how a President can be gracious towards someone. So we are honored to have him as Prime Minister. So first of all, I'd like to talk about the vaccines for 10 seconds. The vaccine, HAB is still working at full speed even at night for the youngest. And I'm very pleased that also at national and regional level, we have reached 70% of general fully vaccinated people. So The company we in the company, we have almost all been vaccinated. We have about 1% of employees who decided not to get the vaccination for now. But we had an assembly, a general meeting, in where we said that the day we can go back to work without masks inside, that will be the day when we will only enter the company with a green path. As you know, as it is our culture, we don't want to force or even convince anyone to get vaccinated. So if that's the case, we will grant paid leave for 6 months, and then we will see how things developed. But so far, we only have a very tiny percentage of anti vaxxers because you see our job is to protect everyone, but it is clear that no one wants to work 8 hours a day or to have lunch for an hour in the canteen near someone who is not vaccinated. That's a great truth. So we need to protect 99% of the vaccinated workers. I'd like to dedicate this call, of course, to above all the addition to earnings, but that's clear. I'd like to be dedicated to the product, to the Solomeo area and also to 3 major markets. The first one, the U. S, it is doing very, very well, and we'll talk about it. So we will just have spent a few words on it. Then Europe, a really interesting market for us and which we want to consider as it is, perhaps for a year or so. And then China, an immense, a very interesting market, a source of work for mankind for the coming 50 years or 100 years. And we always we want to devote a great deal of time to it in order to gain in-depth cultural, human and economic knowledge. So this is tonight's call, the schedule. So at the beginning, you see when we got listed, I was often told that some conference calls could also be made by or run by the CFO alone. But this actually never convinced me on the contrary. So honestly, I've always wanted many of us here to here in the office to listen to your questions and observations as an important comparison for common growth. So we are all gathered here, ready. And so if we are we are here available to answer any of your calls. So today, we are officially opening a 5 people call. So it's not that these people were not there before. This has always been about 9 of us. But around the table, you can ask questions to Pietro, Investor Relations, Luca, CEO, not CEO because he has not been downgraded Ricardo, also CEO Moreno, CFO and me, the President of Operations and Creative Director. So now I will read out the main results, after which Moreno will go into detail. And then I will come back and discuss these big topics in especially China in more detail. So we have net revenues, EUR 313 €8,800,000 up 7.7 percent at current exchange rates and plus 10% at constant exchange rates as of 30 June 2019 compared to 30 June 2019 and plus 52.9 percent of current exchange rates visavis 30 June 2020. But this is not really relevant this quarter. That was not really happy, fortunately, last year. Then Q2 2021 reported sales of 149,200,000 euros, up 13.8% compared to the same period in 2019. This is a great value for us. EBITDA of €80,600,000 25.7 percent margin compared to euro minus €3,400,000 last year €79,200,000 as of 30th June 20 '19. EBITDA, excluding IFRS 16, So excluding IFRS 16, impacts amounted to €39,900,000 12.7 percent incidence compared to minus €14,100,000 at 30th June 2020 €49,900,000 as at 30th June 2019. EBIT, €25,300,000 8.1 percent incidence compared to minus EUR 53,300,000 net last year. Net profit, EUR 21,900,000 incidence of 7% compared to a loss of €47,700,000 in the first half twenty twenty and a profit of €25,000,000 in the first half 2019. As you know, we have not made any change to our investment plan, €29,900,000 in the first half twenty twenty one as part of a multiyear project confirmed even in the presence of the effects of the pandemic and supported to support by the solid capital structure. Core net financial indebtedness of €96,300,000 compared to €136,500,000 as of 30th June 2020. So these are the main highlights and this was my comment. The first half of twenty twenty one closed with very, very interesting results. Sales of the fall winter 2021 collections, and this is very important, got off to a very good start and the brand seems to be gaining broad consensus, both in its stylistic expression and in the way it relates to the local community and to humanity as a whole. Another important thing, order intake for the springsummer 2022 men's and women's collections, now almost at an end, was excellent. All this prompts us to envisage a strong rise in turnover of around 20% for the current year and to view this time as a source of year of rebalancing. And for 2022, we expect a return to a healthy growth of 10%. These are the highlights, as I said. So Moreno, you can give us more detail, and then we will talk about strategy. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you, Brunello. I'd like to analyze some of the issues that characterize the performance of the first half twenty twenty one results. Slide number 8 of our presentation summarizes the income statement figures highlighting the values as of 30th June in 2020 2021. Clearly, the direct comparison of the results of the first half twenty twenty one with those of the 1st 6 months of 2020 is of limited relevance, the latter being strongly affected by the pandemic. And since we chose to preserve the Solita by corporate structure with the conservation of all the activities and investments we had planned. When comparing this with the first half of twenty nineteen, we must take into account the following. The continuing effects related to the pandemic in the 1st 6 months of this year, the dynamics development related to commercial initiatives, the development of the network in the presence of the new direct boutique openings, 112 boutiques as of 30th June 2021 compared to 102 in 2019, the 12 conversions to direct management of hard shops in luxury department stores in the last 12 months and the major expansions of certain sales spaces. Net revenues for First half twenty twenty one are in line with the preliminary values communicated on July 13. We would like to point out that as of 30th June 20 21, the income statement item, either revenues amounted to EUR 2,162,000 has been classified under other operating costs. Slide 17, in the annexes, instead of being entered under revenues from sales and services as in previous communications. For this for the sake of uniformity and comparability of data, the same reclassification has also been made in the presentation of the income statement figures at 30 June 2020, where other revenues amounted to 1,347,000. And the first margin, 30th June, 2021, amounted to 66.8%, a slight increase compared to 66.5% as at June 30, 2019. In relation to EBITDA, we have proposed an additional table that sterilizes the accounting effects of the application of IFRS 16. And as regards 30 June 2020, it also summarizes the accounting effects relating to the consolidation provision of €30,000,000 relating to the item inventories for the Brunello Cucinelli for Humanity project. The EBITDA margin as of 30 June 2021, excluding IFRS 16, is amounts to 12.7% compared to 17 in 0.1% as of 30 June 2019. Considering the impact of the pandemic that continued in the 1st 6 months of 2021 and also considering costs whose benefits on sales and results will be progressively visible in the coming months. The net profit of €21,900,000 as of 30 June 2021 benefits from the recognition of deferred tax assets for a total amount of €9,200,000 calculated on the balance of the inventory write down provision for the Brunello Cucinelli for Humanity project. We'd like to remind you that the €25,000,000 of net income as of 30 June 2019 included EUR 2,500,000 of tax benefits related to the Patent Box as the last year of this benefit. Details of personnel costs, rent, communication investments and depreciation are analyzed in Slide 10. I'd like to highlight the progressive increase in our human resources with the number of FTEs rising from 1842 to the current 2,127 people supports our growth projects growth in the digital world and the expansion of the network. As to the rental cost, the evolution of the network is based behind the increase here. The 1st 6 months of 2021 include costs related to the expansion of sales bases, new boutique openings and new hard shops managed directly within the luxury department stores with the relative benefits on sales and results that will be progressively visible in the coming months. We now turn to the balance sheet. And so we analyze 3 working capital investments and net financial debt. So slide 12 with the dynamics of inventories showing the complete recovery of the increase reported as of 30th June 2020, mainly related to the lockdown period and a balance in June 2021 equal to EUR 208,800,000 influenced by the growth of the retail network, 5 new openings and 10 hard shop conversions in the 1st 6 months of 'twenty 1. Then the expansion of some existing boutiques, the expansion of the digital channel activity and the development of the new initiative related to the kids collections at the Sarteria Solomeo project. As to trade receivables, we'd like to point out the return to normal terms of payment of from wholesale customers to whom we had granted payment extensions to help them deal with the effects of the pandemic. With regard to trade payables, we point out that the payment terms to suppliers, collaborators and consultants remain unchanged. Slide 13 shows the great attention we continue to devote to investments amounting to €29,900,000 as of the first half twenty twenty one with a net financial debt, the classic one on Slide 14, of euro 96 €300,000 on 30th June 2021 compared to €136,500,000 reported at 30th June 2020, which had been impacted by the effects of the pandemic. Already at 30 December 1st December 2020, the NFP showed a significant recovery. And we expect for the end of 2021, a further improvement compared to 1st June 2021, considering the dynamics of cash generation in the second half of the year. And also remember the seasonality of sales, which leads to the peak of the NSP between June September. This is the end of my presentation. Thank you for your attention. Give the flow back to Brunello. So here we are. 1st of all, let's talk about product. FallWinter sales, so it's August. So we have been selling this for 1.5 months. Sales in multi brand and multi brand stores of the full winter 2021 collections are going very, very well. The collections are viewed as youthful, modern, chic, very luxurious and exclusive. So it's really we are experiencing a great time. In all sincerity, these 21 collections were really, really very beautiful. And this echo that statement by Einstein that fascinates me so much. In difficulties: Genius unleashes its creativity because we have spent a year in difficulty. We spent a year when we worked in physical presence all the time except for 6 weeks of a total lockdown in March April 2020. And the concentration, dedication, courage and humility led us to the and maybe some luck to lead to the creation and designing of very special garments for which we will receive a truly unique award next week in London. We can't tell you exactly what it is, not officially. And if you're happy, you receive it once in a lifetime. So I have my father, who is 100 years old, who lives opposite me. And I said to him that, Do you remember when you used to work those fields with oxen and the soil was made up 50% of stones and the wheat was small Genovra. And I said I told him about the awards and he was moved and so was I. And he told me the what he always says to me, be a good man. So this is about the collections and the price next week. It's something we're really honored by. We'll let you give you details very soon. So next year collections, spring summer 'twenty two. The men's collection is now complete. The women's collection is almost at the end. The results have been really, really special. We do not have the judgment, the feedback from the press because we will collect this in September in Milan. There is no doubt that All this and the order intake gives us a glimpse of a very interesting and very positive 2022. And jokingly, I say, let's hope that this mood about the brand continues for a few years. Even for a few decades, I wouldn't mind that at all. But you know that when you start the year knowing fully well that you received positive feedback on the products, this really is a good start. Then what happens in the world, you can really fathom, but the products, you can vouch for that. Then the Solomeo area. We have talked at length about the value of the territory and its support for the brand. I honestly believe, and I'm telling you this because of the question you asked us what happens after Brunello. Well, let's hope that that business goes on even after Brunello. But I believe that Solomeo gives and is giving the brand some sorts of limited immortality. And why is that? Because it will survive with its buildings, its epigraphs, its identity, its history will survive the passage of time. So I believe that this hamlet will remain for long decades, hopefully centuries. It will still be the Hamlet of Kashmir and Harmony and the history and humanistic capitalism. I'm telling you this because At this moment in time, the brand is benefiting from the value of Solomeo. And I'm telling you this because after the restoration of the hamlet. You saw that we built the theater in 2008, a secular temple of art in 2016. We built the winery as a tribute to the earth who will be there for 1000 years. Kvaernerfane says everything comes from the earth. In 2018, we built the monument to the Dignity of Man. And always, always add a family foundation. And this is always very much separated from the listed company, whose company invests in the territory 0.2% of revenues. The rest is taken care of by the foundation for the 1,000 year projects. Now on October 28, if you happen to be in Italy by any chance, in Milan at the piccolo Theatro in Milan, we will present a project for the next 1000 years. It will take about 3 years to complete this project, but I think it will keep giving something very important contributing and put something important to the hamlet. So I believe that even the cultural chain of the territory and the cashmere artifacts will also enjoy some sort of on mortality because these micro companies, high quality companies and workshops, will there can really be a source of satisfaction for the future. As to turnover, profit, NSP, EBITDA, investments, shop store expansions. We you know everything. We confirm everything and Everything is clear. Now we wanted to talk about markets. I'd now like to open a nice and interesting window on the whole world. So at the end of the year, we'll have 32% Americas, 44% Europe, 24% Asia, of which almost 15% China. So China for us is starting to become quite a good business. Do you agree with that? Yes. So if we were to envisage this breakdown in 3 years' time, we would like to envisage the following: 30% U. S, because it is a very important market for absolute luxury, both for men and women and also in terms of taste because they have a very special taste. We'd like Europe to account for 40%, very important, as a sort of showcase for international taste in Paris, Central Bay, London and Milan, 30% Asia, of which 20% in China and the rest in the other Asian countries. I think that Asia is super important for now for many companies and for the time to come and also valid for international taste. We have these young celebrities. You see they wear exactly the same garments as in Los Angeles, as Shoganshui Shanghai. This is very interesting. I'd just like to remind you that 85% of our business accounted for by ready to wear. So the taste is important, the shapes, the colors of the lifestyle. And I'd really like to call our company a company, a business of fashion and of lifestyle. So let's start from these 3 large markets, U. S. Just a few words, a very important reference market for us also in terms of taste, recovering both So recovering both in terms of numbers and also psychologically. As we can see from the wholesale orders of the important major department store for the springsummer 2022 collections. And it is a market that we have always considered and viewed as a domestic market. Then Europe, A big market for us, there's 2, very important as a world reference, very performing very well in in average cities with wealthy customers, well off customers. So very positive performance overall. Well, more difficulty in the largest cities, but generally speaking, really important as a reference point for taste, visual merchandising and major cultural changes. Because sometimes when I'm in London for 2, 3 days. You take a look at the Street and you see how the taste is changing. So we see Europe as it is for the coming year because I think that the pandemic is will be with us for the coming months, and we will coexist with it. But you see Europe, we have always see considered a large domestic market. Let us now move to China, very important country. And I think that It will provide us with important satisfaction of this century. But as to China, We would like to tell you how we started, how it all started in China, I would like to make some major considerations. First of all, China will be the great driver of growth for all humanity. Yes, you all agree. I see you all nodding. Then we have always wanted to have a special relationship with these people because I started working my business with Germany, and I was welcomed there because I knew the culture. I did the same in America, and we tried to do the same with China too. We started to work together not more than 10 years ago as exporters of manufactured goods. And since then, we have called this special project Celestial Empire. You see our Chinese friends love this definition. We started out as cashmere pullover manufacturers about 40 years ago, and clearly, the finest raw material in the world comes from Mongolia and China. And of course, we have all been influenced by these very by these people. We, of course, live with cashmere. We met a thousand of times to discuss the quality and quantity of cashmere. You see the cause it is, the better the cashmere is. Then we discuss the relationships with the producers, with the shepherds. And this has allowed us to see China from a different point of view. I have always thought that enjoying a good loyal and fruitful relationship is possible if you know each other's customers and cultures. So for me, the experience of being of supply and customer for very long years has been very important. When about 10 years ago, we decided to start the reverse process that is exporting our products, we consider this very distant country as a foreign market because it was further away. So we have Japan, domestic market Europe and America, domestic markets. So when we started about 10 years ago, we started with important fundamentals. First of all, it had to be a long term project, but we have always done that and we have always told you about this. So long term projects for us and for China too. So we wanted to start with a homogeneous international taste, Los Angeles, Shanghai, Milan and London. And we also wanted good economic growth, but also cultural growth and also human relations had to be pretty special. So from we tried to forge long term projects there. From the very beginning, we have viewed, we have seen in this world something extraordinary for this century. At least for me, you see a fourth of the world population resides there. So I like this very much. Then what about taste? So first of all, one single taste on an international level. Our first partner was saying why can't we have some striped polo shirts and our answer has always been no because we need to sell an international single taste. Then not because we wanted to be arrogant, but I remember one anecdote And when an American customer wanted to have wider legged trousers, we would answer, this is not our culture. We can't do that. So how come you cannot to larger, you see, leg trousers, whereas the truth was that we wanted to maintain the identity of our brand because in closing, either you have it or not. It's not the same as in accessories. So we wanted an understated product, handmade, because we have 52% of is done by hand, You see? As you know, we are a no logo company. And also with a healthy visibility. That's how we wanted to tackle this market, trying to convey the idea of product, culture. This has always been the way in which we communicate and also an exclusive product and pretty expensive too. We have always wanted to manufacture here in Italy with craftsmanship. So we see a lot of young actors. And you should know that we have no brand ambassadors or paid brand ambassadors, while we see many younger celebrities and who dress exactly the same as their peers in Los Angeles, for example. So this is very interesting taste wise. Then economic growth. When we started at the very beginning. Also, following on your recommendations, we wanted to have, yes, definitely a faster growth than in other markets because it was just the beginning compared to U. S, Europe and Japan. But at the same time, we wanted some sort of balanced growth. We wanted to have a fair price and also compared to Europe. And this has always been an issue for all the markets, the idea that Europe America has plus 20% COBIT Europe China, 27%, 28% Japan 33 plus 33. Why? Well, you see there's communication there. I remember an interview in Shanghai when there was a young member of the press with 2 Ipads and an iPhone. And I was really impressed because she was asking me questions and she was showing me the prices of the single items in Shanghai, Milan and San Francisco, and I was very impressed with that. As usual, We believe in multi brands. And still today, we believe that Chinese multi brand stores can be are leaders, teachers. They know the size. They know the taste. So we basically follow on their footsteps. And also, we wanted to have a very clear and sincere relations with the landlords as we have had in America and Europe. Because as you know, in the beautiful high streets in the cities, Those are the prices. They might also behavior plays a role in assigning one place space or another. You see the prices are very, very high, the rent prices. And so since they have a lot of demand, the landlords can choose how to allot their spaces and behavior plays a role here. Then cultural growth there. We have a team of 200 people and only, only local Chinese people. So our team in China is made up of only Chinese people, and they come to us in to Solomeo. We meet up with them. We try to get gain insight in our mutual cultures. We are part of the Italy China Foundation and I also part of the Urioni Philantropica Italy, China. And I have always had a passion for philosophy. If you come to our village in the square of the Weizmann in Solobel, we have Leonardo on the one hand, Then we have Confucius and Plata. In Confucius and Plata, they lived at at the same time. 1 is the father of the West, the other the father of the East. And for a Chinese person, Confucius is extraordinary. So before giving leaving the floor for questions, I'd like to tell you that we have a very positive attitude towards this market, and we need to be gracious towards them. So a year down the road, after the start of the pandemic, we wouldn't have imagined this kind of level that we have achieved. So I'm saying this to you, analysts and investors, listening to you, 2021 is a year of rebalancing. The only thing that is missing is a few points on EBITDA. But inventory, investments, we have gone back to our balance. So we are very confident. And in the company, there is a very fascinating mood around, but this also is the result of the time we are experiencing in terms of taste. So to conclude, the usual warning I always have for you is the product. Our product needs to be useful, exclusive, contemporary, cutting edge and Chic and Luxury. This is what we think matters the most. We have spoken at length about China because we wanted to convey to you the way in which we tackle this very important market, this special culture that is destined to rule in this century. So I am not in my prime anymore, but I am convinced that this is the way ahead. So thank you very much. Once again, we wanted to really convey to you some of our culture without only relying on numbers. And now the floor is open for discussion. Then the next call will be around October 20, but we already have July August already with the order intake. So we are pretty confident. Thank you. Thank you very much. First question from Flavio Chereda, Jefferies. Thank you. Good evening, Brunello. Good evening, everybody. Good evening, Flavio. So there's a bit of rain in your England. Yes, let's forget about it. But you see, that's why people are going to buy cashmere in August, too. Yes, but you see everybody praise their own gods. You see, we are not very unhappy with this kind of rainy climate. So I have two quick questions to be original on China. Number 1, your typical customer, let's say. What is the difference between your Chinese and European that customers in terms of age. And secondly, if you can remind us of the price difference on average for you between purchasing a garment in Shanghai for in Milan. Very well. So starting from the second question. So on average, it is 20 8% higher than in Milan. And the objective is to have about 25%, 26% in a couple of years' time, which is the balance that I would appreciate when the young member of the press told us why does it cost more here. So you see, this is part of the idea of balance between profit and giving back. As far as the average customer is concerned, it is slightly younger because there are Many young, well off people in China, so we are pleased with that. In the U. S, We have young actors, but we are very happy with the clientele that we have in China. Of course, we have an expensive product, but also this idea of exclusive no logo products. As you were saying The other day, Luca, you had come up with a good adjective. We were talking about a silent kind of growth, a balanced growth that we hope we can replicate in the coming years, not just from the economic point of view, but also from a cultural point of view of integration with our team and with the Chinese people and also in terms of brand positioning. We have to say that at this moment in time, we see a growing interest in ready for ready to wear in a market that was natively driven by accessories. And also, this idea of the sub of No logo really is becoming attractive for many, many people. Yes, we are happy, Flavio. I wanted Luca to say something too because you have to feel really free to talk to everybody. So if one day they say to you, Brunelos died because he was old, You see, my time is over. So we need to have the responsibility for those who come after us. Yes, thank you very much. Thank you, Flavio. Next question by Guido Lucarelli, at Exane BNP Paribas. Good evening, everybody. Good evening, Brunello. Good evening, Guido. I have Three questions still on China. The first one has to do with the latest statements of the Chinese President on redistribution of wealth, also possibly a taxation on the wealthy on Wealthy People. I'd like to know whether this raises any concern, if this can have an impact on the Chinese consumers. The second one has to do with China and the new the latest COVID hotspots, whether this can have any impact in terms of store closures? And then to conclude, What about the weight of China between now 3 years' time, 20% of sales? And considering the importance of the the brand channel. What could be the retail wholesale mix of the 20%. I'll start from the last question. Currently, we have 15%. In 2, 3 years' time, we could achieve 20%. So there will be growth, some wholesale, some retail because we it's not that we expect that much, but 3 or 4 points. Then as to hotspots, so far, there is nothing that really affects us. As to the impact, you see It's been a few years now that I maintain that going ahead with the collection and everything, we will have to really find the balance between profit and giving back. So what I say is, would you buy something if you knew that, that brand is making proportional profit? You wouldn't. This is the truth. What we don't like, they don't either don't like either. So this idea of healthy profit, of growth of and this idea is always something we highlight and we have always highlighted in our company. So personally speaking, in our company, we are not worried about anything. I believe that It will be the market for the next 100 years, China. Thank you very much. Thank you, Guido. On your keypad. On your keypad. Next question from Paola Carboni, Equita. Good evening, everyone. I have two questions, changing shifting focus away from China. The first one on profitability. That is, yes, still lagging behind to 2019. But in this first half, it did catch up by 10 points. And I saw in the press release that you were highlighting that some marketing initiatives will be more concentrated in the second half of the year. So I was wondering also for personnel costs for rents. Was there some sort of temporary developments linked to forced savings for COVID or some other aspects to be taken into account. So will the cost dynamics be different in the second half of the year? I can understand that there will be more benefits on the top line from the stores, new stores. But that's my question anyway. And then second question on the U. S. Market. If you can give us more colors also on the attitude of customers over there, if there is something brew still brewing there or if there is some sort of slowdown. So in America, there is a great mood over there. You can feel it from the daily sales, but Paola, you can also feel it. You see, they started at the end of June with the collections and they bought the SpringSummer collections with a lot of fascination. So we see a lot of positivity on the United States. As far as the impact of costs, there is no change there, Paola. We have the very same business that we had last year. We did not fire anybody. We did not closed and it stores down. So we are ready. We called it the year of the rebalancing because apart from EBITDA, we have a true rebalancing of the NFP with investments, with investments in advertising. So you shouldn't expect any different things. So we are very, very confident on that. So I expect a higher EBITDA margin in the second half of the year. Well, you see, Paola, we all hope for improvement. But you see, Paola, we should never be carried away by staff that is COVID. And then, Of course, if we are able to make to improve it, then we will all be happy. But at the same time, we must be cautious all the time. And we want to be cautious in China too. That's what I wanted to say. If we are cautious when drafting our budgets, Then in that way, we can live and work with serenity, whereas if we exaggerate, if we stretch out our budgets, then it is difficult. This is what really matters. When we went public, We said it from the very beginning. We want to have a healthy growth. And you see in the past 10 years, we were always able to grow by 10%. This last year, we lost 10%. Next year, we'll have 20%. And next year, we will have usual 10. So I want to be cautious in everything I do. I don't want to be frightened by the fact that maybe something happens tomorrow morning and we lose 0.2% and this becomes a debacle because then Paola, you work in a hasted and pressured manner in the company too. If you always need to chase this 0.01 percent OIBDA, that's when it gets difficult and part of creativity goes away with it. So of course, we try always try and be confident. Yes, thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. On your keypad. Mr. Cocinelli, there are no questions. Yes, So thank you very much. And this idea of holding this conference call with 5 people should really convey the idea that you can talk to us any time of the day or during the conference call. And if someone is comes down with the flu one day, then there will be 4 of us left. Thank you and best wishes for everything, and we'll speak to you soon. Have a nice evening. Goodbye.