Earnings Call: H1 2026

Jun 30, 2026

Earnings release

Summary

H1 2025 results were in line with expectations, but EBITDA and net profit declined as lower-margin vCISO work and Keatrix investment weighed on earnings. Guidance anticipates growth through 2027, with Keatrix sales expected to begin in 2026.

Good afternoon. This is the call's co-operator. Welcome to Cyberoo's conference call presenting H1 2025 results. Let me remind you that all participants are in listen-only mode. After the presentation, a Q&A session will be held. To be assisted during the conference call, please press star and zero on your phone keypad. Let me now turn the conference over to Mrs. Veronica Leonardi, Executive Board Member and Investor Relations Manager. You have the floor, madam. Good afternoon to all of you. As always, welcome to this time of sharing of our results. As always, we're happy to welcome you. I heard that there are many of you connected, logged in, so it's going to be a great honor for me to share our first half results. We like to start from the backdrop normally, and market backdrop or MDR. The role of cybersecurity in the European market, mainly. On page 3 of the presentation, you can see some meaningful data to help you better understand the issues that are to be managed from a cybersecurity perspective. Cybersecurity is a very well-known topic nowadays, and more and more people talk about it, so there's a greater awareness. It's slowly increasing. When this awareness grows, of course, what people see is that we lack qualified resources. We need skilled resources, meaning human capital. As I've told you many times, cybersecurity is not a job that you do 8 hours a day for 5 days a week, but it's a 24/7 job. You work 24 hours a day, practically. You're involved 24 hours a day, so you need highly skilled people. They are not yet fully available in the market, and you need enough people to cover the 24-hour time span, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. What is also missing is the generalized awareness of cybersecurity. What do I mean by this? Not only do we miss skilled resources, but also the top management of corporates. They do understand that they need to engage in cybersecurity, but individual employees within the company are normally illiterate when it comes to cybersecurity. That would enable the company, if they were literate instead of illiterate, it would enable the company to be much more secure. This does not happen. This lack of generalized awareness at the lower level of the company strongly increases the size of the issue of the cybersecurity issues. Also in-house expertise is lacking in terms of processes, procedures, and corporate culture and mindset. For this reason, if you move to page 4, you will see that we witness what we call a compromised defense. Currently, we lack specialized internal resources, monitoring of infrastructures of the so-called IT perimeter of companies is, the monitoring is highly fragmented, and technologies may have a role on the detection side, but the remediation side instead, the last mile of threat mitigation is not yet fully covered. What is also lacking is a cyber resilience strategy to respond to incidents. There's NIS2, the directive, the Network Information Security Directive, will force companies to be equipped with cybersecurity tools. We'll talk about it later. What we also lack are people, security advisors who are highly specialized and walk company not only through managing a time of war, so to say, when you have an actual attack, a cyber attack, but as a matter of fact, also people who can initialize processes, procedures to make the company more secure. Then last but not least, this fact that security awareness is very scant, is very lacking. On page five, instead, you see the goal of, the actual goal of defense. So a 24-hour monitoring, and you need cyber threat intelligence, you need afterward appropriate remediation. You need to be able to respond to incidents. We need to have pathways to improve security cyber resilience, the cyber resilience of one's system. Of course, you need to increase security awareness to a satisfactory level. As we've always told you, we're very much in line with market needs, both with MDR, which is our feather in the cap, so to say, but also with other tool services and items that are within the MDR ecosystem. Not just I-SOC team, but also security awareness activities. On page seven, I would like to give you a snapshot of a comparison between Cyberoo and our competitors. Then of course, we'll have one-to-one with each and every one of you and elaborate on this one. The difference between what we offer, MDR, vis-à-vis the competition. Today, what we bring to the table is a service that is pervasive in nature because it monitors infrastructures, it can provide remediations, it works on incidents, it works on people's awareness, on procedures, and it's a fully pervasive project, company-wide, to manage cyber risk for infrastructures, processes, and procedures, and people. So that makes us one of a kind if we compare ourselves against our competitors that are typically providers of managed services. Again, service is the keyword here. But fundamentally, they just manage technology. They manage technology that is installed company-wide, and that has a full range of limitations that are implied. So they find it difficult to be very precise in meeting the actual corporate needs when it comes to cybersecurity. On page eight, you find market data. These data are indeed very interesting because not only do we think that cybersecurity services are of paramount importance and will grow in importance going forward, and this is just the beginning of the cybersecurity era, the cybersecurity market. It's been in place for just a few years. Only for just a few years have we heard the talk about social, no, sorry, of cybersecurity. Therefore, it's just at the beginning of its pathway. Therefore, we look ahead with a lot of confidence and optimism, if you wish. On slide eight, you see a chart that tells us the assumptions of the CAGR for the overall market, and we're talking about 13.05% between 2024 and 2028. Also we have, on the right-hand side, the market breakdown. It's a European market for all of the products and services that make up cybersecurity. Again, on the right-hand side, as I said, you have the breakdown of said market. More and more, security services will have the upper share, so to say, the lion's share. This is a projection for 2028. More and more, the market will shift towards security software, network security. Therefore, not only does this meet market demands, but also if we look at forecasts from large groups, we see that it's services that will be the hot topic for the coming years, so to say. Another point I'd like to make, and something that I'll tell you more and more is the importance that today is the fact that today we are Europeans. So if you move to page 9, you see that we are Europeans, so we need to put in place European strategies. There was a report, we're talking about the Draghi report, about the future of European competitiveness, and these are some of the items that are meant to enhance the value of European investments in a number of markets, defense and industries, defense, artificial intelligence, cybersecurity, to be able to increase the European competitiveness and decrease its dependence, the dependence of Europe, and therefore comply with European regulations that are very different from regulations from other continents. So we have to be proactive in that respect. Let me also remind you that Mario Draghi, in his report, a few weeks ago, about 10 days ago, on September 16th in Brussels, he said, "It is of paramount importance to invest in artificial intelligence, but also you cannot have artificial intelligence unless you invest in other industries that will also be of paramount importance." Data centers, just to give you an example, because you need to be able to store data, and you need fiber optics, and you need, first and foremost, cybersecurity. You cannot develop artificial intelligence unless you also develop cybersecurity. The more we digitalize, the more vulnerable we become to cybercrime. Therefore, what is the role of Cyberoo in all this? Let's move to page 11. Here we see we gave you an overview of what we consider as the six main competitive advantages provided by Cyberoo. First of all, it's a market-driven approach. We have our product portfolio with MDR and the ecosystem surrounding MDR, and then our European roots, the fact that we invest a lot in R&D, as you've probably seen. Somehow we generate value. We represent value for Europe because we are a company, also thanks to our side, we invest a lot and can mean a lot for artificial intelligence. Market-wise, we provide a cybersecurity strategy that has to be more European, and it has to be a strategic choice for companies. We are European. We know our regulation very well, and therefore we can comply with it, NIS2, et cetera. We also have a global recognition, also by the Gartner Group, and they have renewed in their research work, they recognize that we have global recognition. We are mentioned in international rankings for MDR. The right proposition at the right time, being European, in Europe, focusing on AI, regulations, and a global recognition. This is what we bring to the table. Let's have a look at our operations. The actions we've performed over the last 6 months will tell you something about July and August, the first few months of the second half. Let's start from the technical part. On page 13, our technical area is headed by Matteo Ciotoli, our CTO, and he is one of the main experts of AI in Europe. Matteo definitely channeled most of our R&D on MDR. A study made on artificial intelligence was channeled towards MDR so as to be able to provide infrastructure, the computing power, and our ability to provide highly evolved products, thanks to the use of artificial intelligence. Sometimes these are elements that are very difficult to see, as a matter of fact, but they are there. On page 14, we see how our people are distributed over Europe. You see in the different premises and the different offices from Italy, to Ukraine, Albania, et cetera, and Poland. They are part of Cyberoo, thanks to the acquisitions we performed, the acquisition of related parties that we performed. You see this is the picture of how we are geographically distributed. As far as technologies are concerned, we've introduced 59 new detections. We've developed new technology to be more and more agnostic in our approach because being agnostic is really one of our strengths, an infrastructure that is upgraded to provide a more powerful AI. We also expanded some of our virtual SOCs because the machine somehow distributing alarms to people and companies, people who are in front of monitors and have to manage those alarms. We've done a lot of work, and so we have expanded our teams as well. First and foremost, we are very happy to tell you something about our announcement about the project we've told you about so much in the previous months. It was kept secret until May, and then we disclosed it, we presented it, and it's Keatrix. As to Keatrix, please allow me to go into more details somehow. We're very proud of Keatrix, and Keatrix is one of the reasons why some of the KPIs of this first 6 monthly report were shifted, but also the size, the magnitude of this project, and the value for us has to be really underlined. Let me tell you what Keatrix does, first and foremost, and then we'll be happy, of course, to elaborate on the platform with you on one-on-one meetings. At least I'm going to give you a hint, an overview here. For sure, the problem of cyberattacks goes through individual people. I'm sure you have a smartphone with you that you're all connected to the internet. You all have online banking. You are hyper connected to all of the web infrastructures. For instance, you are the employee of a bank or of another company. Today, many attacks really go through what we call human error. People, if suitably trained, can be the first line of firewall in a company, the first filter preventing cyberattacks from being launched. Over the years, and this project was started in 2022, so we've worked on it a long time. We looked at many platforms. We've studied the market in detail because the world issue of security awareness, unlike MDR, it's not a virgin market, it's a market that already exists and where we have competition. We understood that there were two main issues at stake. First one, training was boring, lessons were boring, and what was provided were only notions and in a very standardized way. Practically what happens at school, you have a teacher teaching a class. There are people who understand and people who don't. What we don't want is to simply train people by providing concepts and notions that they may not be using. We want to be sure that people change their behaviors, their attitude, their approach. We shifted our vision in this type of training from notions to behavior. This is where we started a very important type of work. We defined behavior, and it's not simply talking about competencies and skill. Behavior has to do with many things, personality, if we are under stress or we're not under stress. There are a lot of factors that come into play. If you want people to learn behavior, a type of behavior, they have to go through a number of step in their brains to be able to complete the process. We mapped behaviors that should be learnt for cybersecurity purposes. There's 71, after mapping them, we took the cybersecurity knowledge domain, and we unbundled it in micro-learning objects. The smallest training units, 325, roughly. Today, we can then use these units and then translate them in billions of different blends and mixes, depending on the people, on the person we have before us. It's the content that meets the person and vice versa. We used a training method called GETR, and it was experimented in the area of parachuting and voluntary work when it comes to helping and rescuing people. So where people, when you launch with a parachute, or if you have to rescue somebody who had a car accident, you need to have had a certain training. You have to learn how to behave so as to reduce to the minimum level or to zero the risk of committing errors, of making mistakes. Because of course, in case of rescues, you risk otherwise you would put the life of somebody else at risk. Bearing all that in mind, this teaching method is applied to the full body of cybersecurity knowledge, and we customize it in full to meet people's needs. When people access the Keatrix platform, through a statement, they are identified, not just as far as the risk level is concerned, the riskiness, meaning the possibility they have to access data, but also how involved they are, their ability to learn. Are they inductive or deductive in nature? Then over time, the platform changes content, adapts content based on the evolution of the person during their pathway, their training pathway. We're not investing in a format, a generalized format. We are, or we want that at the end of each training process, people achieve the level of behavior that is required to protect the company against a certain level of risk. The platform is constantly evolving and constantly changing whatever is proposed to the user until the user changes the behavior and adopts the necessary one. In order to achieve that, what did we do? First of all, we invested in, of course, educational material and in developing contents to support this method, which is called NeLP, Neuroscientific Learning Pattern. We invested in the whole training material, and we are working with those who are building educational content, tests, lessons, assessments, content building. It's a huge amount of work. And we worked on the platform itself together with AI, with all the proprietary algorithms that we have developed to identify the risk every person represents, to see if this person is due to be following the training, if they understand what they're doing, and how AI can be as generative and effective as possible. We have to invest in that a lot. Also work-wise, and I'm in charge of this new, is the new production. To produce these lessons, we have an avatar, we have hundreds of presentations with graphic design, animated video, and real videos. Because another element of Keatrix is based on the idea of edutainment, entertainment and education. We have to fight when you have to teach somebody to someone. We have to capture their attention. They have to forget their emails, their mobile phones. We have to attract and capture their attention. And if we cannot capture their attention or trigger the synapses in their amygdala, if they don't have the right concentration, we cannot teach them anything. The whole platform needs to be catchy, so that concentration is always at its best for the user. We're using science, technique, and aesthetics and art, if you wish, rather than aesthetics. If you allow me, I would use the word art, because this is what we are using. And when you put together all these individual segments, it's like the putting together of a film, a movie. It's a complex work, and it can have a very big order of magnitude when it comes to being different from other platforms. There will be a Cyberoo theme there, very effective. It will use or rely on distribution systems of Italian, Polish, and all of our partners. It's a product, not a service, and can be installed with a click, so it can be easily sold to everyone. Unlike MDR, where we are focused on mid-size enterprises, this other platform instead can be sold to the lady who is a shop owner in the convenience store or to a bank with 20,000 employees. It can be very pervasive, as I said, and the price will be very competitive based on volume, and we will also be able to use it as a Trojan horse for our globalization to enter certain countries, because the platform will be a multi-language platform. It will be English, Spanish, Polish, German, French. A huge piece of work. And of course, we invested a lot on it. On page 18, we see our sales area. Let's talk about the sales area. On page 19, again, we give you a picture of our distribution system, how it works, the different relationship, invoicing, and payment flows between Cyberoo distributors, partners, and end customers. I'm not going to go into details on this slide. We just put it there for you to be able to read it if you want to. As we explained many times, it will be used very shortly. It will become handy when we talk about trade receivables shortly. Something else I want to tell you on page 20, it's about the Italian sales network that has changed somehow versus last year. We still have a sales director, head of business and development, but we've introduced two new positions. First one is area manager, northeast and northwest, Milan and southern Italy. Then we introduced area managers because the sales infrastructure is so big now. There is so much work that we have to build hierarchies to distribute work as well, the workload. We have the sales director. We could not have a chain of report that was too flat. Of course, we wanted to be very much in touch with the geographies. That's why we also came up with the figure of a territory manager, and they deal with smaller areas. Let me give you one example. Center and South Italy, which is a very big area. We have a territory manager for Central Italy and another one for the islands. These areas are then broken down into smaller areas. So area and then territory. On page 21, instead, big news. On July 6, so it's after the first six months, but we would like to announce this. We have Andrea Piazza with us as commercial director. He's a sales or commercial director, from which we picked a professional. He is very well known in the industry, and we think he has a high expertise, so we wish him all the best in his pathway. Now he manages Poland, and I can say that they found the right SaaS set up and the machine is working smoothly. We have a sales manager, marketing manager. We have all the necessary. We have Arrow as distributor in Poland. They're doing quite well. Arrow could be opened in Spain and Italy as well. Could become a multi-country distributor. Indeed, Arrow is an international distributor, but for the time being, we only picked them for our distribution in Poland, but it could be extended to Italy and Spain as well. We're very happy of the first half in Poland, and we expect a closing of the year that could start to be meaningful, so to say. Spain and Portugal, I don't have many update versus what I told you in March. We're working in Spain. It's a very interesting market, by the way. The distributor is Zaltor. It's a very rich market, and we are starting to work on an acquisition, possibly. So there's the ongoing work, both on sales and strategic viewpoint. Talking about internationalization or globalization, we've been working on that on the FTE side, but also trying to identify the right targets for possible M&As. It's a complex type of job that indeed, because M&As, according to us, are a tool that should generate something special, not just increased turnover, but provide added value. So we really have a keen eye on the industrial approach when we look into M&A opportunities. So not just financial value, but also from an industrial viewpoint. On page 26, instead, we are talking about all the nice things we have done on the governance side in the first month of the year and also before that. We listened carefully to the constructive criticism that was made by the market for the type of relations we have had with our related parties, associated companies, and we wanted to give a very strong transparency and clarity message when it comes to intragroup transactions or relations. What did we do? On July 1, 2024, Sedoc Digital Group was the main shareholder and one of our main business partners, acquired Cyberoo solutions through the National Distribution System. That really was a very clear signal to the market of our will to be very clear and transparent. But then also, as of this summer, we have also rationalized the organizational setup, so to say. We acquired 100% of Cyberoo Global AL, and we took within our consolidation scope parts or companies of the group that were acting on behalf of Cyberoo and what they were doing at operations of the SOC development, Keatrix development, a set of activities. These are now within our scope of consolidation, the listed scope of consolidation. On July 22, 2025, our EGM resolved upon the merger by incorporation between MFD International, which is our wholly owned subsidiary, as we have always told you. We have marketing there and our SAP operations, and that will be merged by incorporation. This is not yet completed as a transaction, but there again, we rationalize our setup. On page 27, you see the new shareholders set up and board. We changed the names of the company. Cyberoo Global AL is Cyberoo AL. Cyberoo Global UA is Cyberoo Global UA, and Cyberoo Global as business unit is directly being merged and incorporated. We changed the names as well of the companies so that everything is now fully clear and transparent. We talked about technology, we talked about sales. Let us now dive into the financials. Of course, you see figures, and then you find the explanations at the end. I am going to read out numbers, and then we will tell you more about the numbers, the KPIs that we think are worth explaining and elaborating on so that they can be better understood. Production value is up 3.24% with an absolute value of EUR 10.48 million. Revenues from sales are down a very small amount, 0.38%, with an absolute value of EUR 9.06 million. Then we have the breakdown of sales revenue. Cybersecurity revenues are up 2.39% with an absolute value of EUR 6.69 million. Managed services revenues are down 5.46%. The absolute value is EUR 2.32 million. Digital transformation revenues are down 55.72% with an absolute value of EUR 0.05 million. Because digital transformation for us is for a long time now, it is no longer a core business. I am not going to dwell on this. You already know that. Let us move on to page 30. Highlights for the first half of 2025. Production value, again, EBITDA is down 22.61% with an absolute value of EUR 2.17 million. EBITDA margin is 6.97 percentage point, but the value in absolute term is up 20.91%. A net profit that is down 63.82% with an absolute value of EUR 0.31 million. The NFP, net financial position goes from cash of EUR 0.018 million from EUR 18,000 to EUR 4.11 million net debt. Let us now focus on each item. We start from sales revenues. Let me say by way of introduction, if you have forgotten about it, the first half for us accounts for 30% of our yearly turnover, which means that looking at our results in the first 6 months of the year is only a partial assessment because 70% of our revenues are generated in the second half of the year. If you look at our financials, we are in line with our expectations. What happened and what is worth mentioning, compared to the usual mainstream revenue breakdown, 80%-85% MDR and the remaining part, vCISO and other services, there was a shift there because services from, well, vCISO services went up 136%, and it is the Virtual Chief Information Security Officer services. They were impacted upon by the NIS2 directive. I am going to tell you more about it in a minute, because we have left the links for you so that you can look up the directive as well and the legislation. What does the law or the Directive say that by July 31st, it was April 14th at the beginning, but then it shifted to July 31st. Companies had to register with the ACN portal. It is the National Agency for Cybersecurity. That meant providing data on the state of the art of their cybersecurity at company level. Companies, corporates, to be able to register on the ACN portal, they had to provide data and certificates, and that meant we had to work a lot to provide vCISO services to them. These operations, these first steps, are only preliminary for the next compliance exercises or actions. The first one is January 1st, 2026. You have obligation to have an incident response plan compliant with the Legislative Decree 138, and then the other compliance or mandatory date is October 18th, whereby the full company has to be completely aligned with cybersecurity requirements. It means that all activities that were taken on board through the vCISO services have an excellent opportunity to be turned into MDR and other services. For us, this first half was very positive indeed. Let me add the following. Thanks to the vCISO activities or services, we managed to reach out to large companies, important companies, that would have been more difficult to approach with MDR. That is why this first vCISO was a kind of Trojan Horse to actually get into the company. Let us now look at revenues and what we have on our P&L. How are the consequence on our P&L of this shift from vCISO to MDR. Sorry, vice versa, MDR to vCISO. vCISO, together with material products, it has an impact on margins, on profitability. In the first half, had we sold more MDR, we would have seen a higher profitability and higher revenues, but vCISO services enabled us to acquire many more customers than we would have acquired during this time of the year. It meant 200 clients more, 200 additional clients. So many more than what we normally acquire in the first half of the year. Overall, indeed, we have a decline. Consider that our expectations are in line with what we achieved. It might be seen as a decline, but as a matter of fact, we put in place and reached out a number of clients that with MDR we would not have reached. As far as revenues and sales, or profits and sales, we are very happy because the first half, for us, according to us, was very satisfactory. We were awarded some public tenders as well, where we beat the competition on the vCISO services. We really, by far, won over the competition, also with very affirmed and very well-known international players. We managed to be awarded those public tenders. Indeed, we sold more vCISO services, so we have lower margins, lower profits, because it is seen as material. The reason why EBITDA was affected is the Keatrix investment. We know we are a company that like to invest. If you bet on us, it is because you believe in a company that invests sizably. You heard what I said before, cybersecurity is only at the beginning of its path forward. Giving you a metaphor, it is as if we were an automotive company, but starting its business in the 1900s. It would be crazy not to invest and not to be ready to fully exploit what is ahead of us. It would be really a pity not to invest in new tools, because we are just at the beginning of this marathon, of this pathway forward, and we have a long-term objective to achieve. In order to grow, we have to go through investments. Of course, we are going to make wise investments. We need to invest in technology and science, and we are confident if the world will keep going in the same direction, this will enable us to bring to the table, to the market, something that makes us very competitive. Net financial position, of course, that is self-explanatory. It was affected by the Keatrix platform, the investment we made on Keatrix, and the investment we made to finalize two corporate transactions for about EUR 1.4 million. The transactions were made to have a governance structure that is much clearer and more transparent so that there is no room for misinterpretations. We invest also in treasury shares, because in the first half of the year, we purchased 107,000 treasury shares for a carrying amount of EUR 165,000, roughly. Today, we own 303,000 treasury shares for a carrying amount of slightly above half a million EUR. Our net financial position was also affected by sales receivables. This is a hot topic too. Let me tell you why we have been piling up these sales receivables. The current economic backdrop, I am sure all of you are aware. I do not need to tell you what is happening worldwide. Liquidity is focusing on. Companies take care of their investment. The automotive industry is not doing really well. Companies, when they invest, they want to use upfront liquidity right away. What happens then? Clients want to buy cybersecurity, they want to purchase it, but they want to buy it with payment on installments. We need an upfront payment, so there is a mismatch between our payment conditions and the payment conditions the end customers negotiates with our partners, and therefore you end up having an accounting mismatch or sales or trade receivable. It is not because customers are not paying, but because customers have deferred payment on installments. You have a lot of movement for trade receivables because we have, again, a strong seasonality, especially in the second half of the year. It is mainly in the second part of the year that we cash in the installments year on year. Installments that the partners have agreed upon with the clients. We have seen a decline in this first half, so again, we are taking action to try and find a better structured solution for this problem, because our billing system will remain the same. We know that clients will want to pay on installments. This is a problem that should have been solved in six months, but we are looking for a more far-reaching solution. In the next month, we will show you the solutions we are trying to find, and we are thinking of maybe factoring solutions or the partner funding the upfront, funding the end customer because they are better maybe geared to manage these receivables. I can say that we are really addressing the issue to find a suitable solution, and I am confident that at the end of 2025, we will be able to show you that we have finally addressed the problem to find a so-called more far-reaching or structural solution. I am getting close to the end of the presentation. I can say that figures for us are positive. Again, there is a lot of vCISO activities, and we hope that will be translated in MDR. The European market is particularly interesting. We can have a competitive advantage. Then, of course, we are looking into possible M&As. We are very happy. The outlook is positive for us, and we are going to show you the latest market consensus. Value of production about EUR 28 million to 25, EUR 32 million for 2026, and EUR 37 million for 2027. Cybersecurity revenues, 2025, we expect EUR 21 million, EUR 25 million in 2026 full year, and EUR 29 million in 2027 full year. EBITDA, we expect EUR 11 million for the full year 2025, EUR 13 million for 2026 full year, and EUR 15 million, 2027, always full year. I would like to say a couple of words on our sustainability report. We have 21% of female employees, whilst 15% is the industry average. So we are very happy to say we are successful in providing the right working environment also for female employees. To wrap up, before I wrap up, let me say that fiscal year 2025 will be a 15-month fiscal year. We will not close our year on the end of December, but rather we will close our fiscal year on the 31st of March 2026. The reason why we want to change our fiscal year closing date, there are a number of reasons. First of all, we have a high seasonality component in the second half of the year. So having a fiscal year starting in April and ending in March gives you a better picture of our performance. Then also, we have sales reasons as well. We want to align our commercial or sales dynamics with those of our partners because, normally they close in May, their fiscal year. So as from January to March, the impact is not very strong. For us, it is much better to have that part at the end as a closing of our fiscal year rather than at the beginning, because that really gives you a truer picture of how we perform and also enables us to be better aligned with our operating partners. This closing will be, for this time, it will be 15 months and not 12. We'll meet again for the disclosure of full year. We'll meet not in March, but in June rather. That was the end of my presentation. We are very satisfied, and according to me, we are addressing a number of issues and criticalities in the right way. As far as the market is concerned, in line with expectations. We can't wait for Keatrix to really take off, because it was disclosed in May, but it will be officially launched in December, so we hope we'll soon be able to give you very good news on that front. Questions now. This is of course the operator. Let's now start the Q&A. Whoever wishes to ask a question, please press Star and 1 on your phone keypad. To be removed from the Q&A queue, press Star and 2 on your phone keypad. Ask question using your phone headsets, please. Thank you. If you want to ask a question, press Star and 1 on your phone now. For questions, please press Star and 1 on your phone. First question comes from the line of Andrea Zampaloni with Alantra. Hi, everyone. I have some questions. Let me start from costs. I'd like to understand the overall cost for Keatrix, and how much do you still have to spend for these investments to get to a normalized level? Second question. I'll ask all the questions now, and then you can answer. Second question I would like to ask, as to trade receivables. Leading your balance sheets, I see that sales or trade receivables went down about EUR 1 million versus 2024. What are instead, could you elaborate about the EUR 0.5 million advance you have with Sedoc? As there are still revenues with Sedoc for several millions, I'd like to know more about it. What is the level of the negotiations? At what level are negotiations now? Cost of Keatrix over 3 years, 2024, 2025, and 2026. The Keatrix investment is about EUR 7 million, 50% of which between 2024 and 2025, and in 2024, we have 30%. In 2025, we have 70%. So it means that in 2026, there's another 50% that could be then reach out to 2027. As to trade receivables, let me say the following. IRAP advance. Let me explain. As we are a group, the head pays the taxes for all of the companies of the group. So it's Sedoc that pays taxes for Cyberoo, and they have paid an advance so far. That is the receivable that will be discounted the moment in which Sedoc will pay taxes. I hope I was clear enough. That didn't happen in the previous years. No, it's the first time. You're right. It's the first time that this happens, that we paid an advance. I don't remember the third question. Could you please repeat it? On revenues. EUR 2 million revenues with Sedoc. Yes. We were set up as managed service providers. Why is that? Before we did not have distribution. We would only sell through Sedoc. Through distribution, we only trigger or generate revenues that only come from MDR and cybersecurity, CSI, vCISO, et cetera. We cannot put on a price list for distribution something that we can no longer sell, because managed services are no longer our focus. They never had a national distribution. They were only distributed in Emilia-Romagna. So that path of revenues, that is for managed services, go through Sedoc. We'll find a way going forward for them not to go through Sedoc. This time it would have been too complex, so they go through distribution. We are now investing, as you know, on cybersecurity, which was not there when we were first set up. I hope I was clear enough. Can I ask a question on Keatrix costs? If I understand correctly, there's another EUR 3.5 million that will be for 2026. Can we expect a compression on margins for 2026 as well? Yes, some pressure, yes, on margins. We'll see. Because in 2026, we'll start selling Keatrix as well. Today we have a cost with no revenues, but in 2026, we still have part of the cost, but it's also true that we will get revenues as well selling Keatrix. It's going to be more balanced, so to say. Other questions? For further questions, press star and one on your phone keypad. Mrs. Leonardi, there are no more questions in the queue for the time being. That means I was very clear. Crystal clear. Anyway, thank you so much for logging in, and as always, we are fully available to give you further clarifications, to have one-on-one discussions on whatever you need clarifications for. Have a lovely Friday, and see you next time. Thank you for joining us today. Thank you so much