Earnings Call: H2 2025

Jun 29, 2026

Summary

Cybersecurity revenue grew 15% on a calendar-year basis, while EBITDA and net profit fell amid investment in Keatrix. Commercial-credit reductions lifted NFP to a €0.8m credit position; Keatrix expansion and integrated risk services underpin growth plans.

I would like now to give the floor to Mrs. Veronica Leonardi, Executive Board Member, Chief Marketing Officer & Investor Relations Manager. Mrs. Leonardi, the floor is yours. Thank you. Good morning, everyone, and welcome today as well to the presentation of the financial results of 2025. This is what we have closed on the 31st of March 2026. Thank you so much for being here today. There are many of you participating in the call, so we can now tell you about the financial year 2025. Once again, 2025 for Cyberoo, that was such an important year, a big, big change because we have continued our work in concentrating and focusing on the proceeds of cybersecurity, which as you know, is the lion's share of our business. At the same time, we are focusing on many other elements of our corporate organization, and all of this has to do, of course, with our financial statements. We will be talking about investments. Those investments, once again, have been based on the positioning on the market. We are building new segments of the portfolio, and this is what we will be doing on the next years. We have focused a lot in 2025. So last year on, if you will, the so-called related parties. This means we will have an optimization of the governance. We have also rationalized the relationships with the holding company. We have also focused on taking care of the commercial credits. Commercial credits was such an important topic that emerged in 2024, and of course, all of this will lead us to, if you will, stay focused on the net financial position, NFP, and our capacity to generate cash flows. This means being able to do our business, keep investments in a very solid way. So basically this would be the topics we will see today. So cybersecurity, EBITDA, investments, related parties, commercial credits, and net financial position. Point number one. There is a footnote I am sure you will remember, but let me go back to this point. The balance sheet, the document that you can see, or I mean the presentation that you can see, we will be talking about the 15 months balance sheet. The comparison with 2024 is not good because here we have 15 months instead of 12 months. I also would like to make a comparison with the calendar year 2024 with calendar year 2025. We are very happy about this because the proceeds in cybersecurity go up by 24% versus 15 months this year on 12 months of 2024, they grow by 15% at 12 months on 12 months. So solid year or calendar year 2024 or calendar year 2025, there is a double digit growth. This growth is something that you can see in a preferred position on the domestic market, because the domestic market goes up by 12%, while on the calendar year, 12 months, we grow by 15%. So we are right in the European average. So we are consistent with the European average, which is 15%. Once again, we are very, very happy of the work we have done in 2025. So why have we grown so much? Well, this is thanks to a very aligned offer with the demand of the market. I will give you further details in a couple of minutes concerning the new announcements that we've made. We launched new solutions, in particular, Keatrix. This gives us the possibility to further widen our offer portfolio. Another key highlight was the important influence on the regulatory context in Europe. We are basically inviting corporations to take care of cybersecurity as an issue. Let me talk about the consistency of our offer versus the needs of the market. More and more often today, if you consider the mid enterprise, which is our reference market, cybersecurity is not just a technological acquisition. If you will, this is the approach to a matter which is something that has to do with risk management, and it has to deal with many different pieces. The first piece has to do with the identification and resolution of threats that exist on the corporate scope or perimeter. This also depends on governance processes, because processes and governance means that companies can actually mitigate or, if you will, reduce possible problems also in those cases where technology doesn't work, if the technology cannot recognize a threat. Once again, these two points are included, if you will, into the cyber risk management policy. We also have compliance in consideration of all the regulations coming up. The last point is even if this is very important, well, it has to do with people, because, again, people may be the first firewall in the company. They can be an integral part of mitigating threats, or they can be the weak element of the chain, so it becomes, let's say, a possible attack. Processes and governance, regulatory compliance and people security. This is what we have done since the birth of Cyberoo, the way you know it today. Basically, formally, we were incorporated back in 2018. We've launched many solutions. We were vendors, thanks to the Cyber Security Suite. We have added all of the Docetz world. All of the universe that we call in two different specific ways. Inside our portfolio, we've also had Titaan. Titaan has to do with compliance, and as you know very well, because we keep repeating it over and over, we have created in 2025, Keatrix. The last solution has to do with training of individual persons. Again, this is what we did in 2025. The offer we had was made of many different services and solutions. Over the years, they had already shown their top quality. In 2025, we have rationalized the offer, and again, we have just created ORBIS. What is ORBIS? ORBIS, basically, if you will, is the possibility to offer our customers a specific suite of products. It includes all the elements of risk management. We have governance processes with Docetz solutions, regulatory compliance with Titaan, and of course, Keatrix, the latest product. This allows us not to have single pieces of an offer. Rather, we have an offer that communicates among each other. This is a great opportunity for companies. Let me tell you why. Well, because for companies, basically, we become just one single focal point. It solves all the elements having to do with risk management. We don't do this with fragmented solutions that do not communicate to each other, not being able to support them to each other. You know risk management, you know that this is a system risk, and it has to be managed in an integrated way. What we do is reducing complexity within companies that may be identified, just like a single focal point, one single company managing the entire cyber risk. This allows companies to have a higher level of risk management, much higher because it is integrated and it is a system. At the same time, we have to reduce management complexity, because what happens is that the company can work with just one single company, and they have many different suppliers. We think we can bring on the market an offer which really allows a better management of the risk, both integrated and systemic risk, with a much better management of organizational efficiency because we reduce complexity of problems. I will skip details on Cyber Security Suite of all the products because we talked to you about this in the past. You can also find plenty of insights on the presentation on the website. What we think is the most important thing today is the fact that Cyberoo today has a united, integrated offer. It is system-wide range of products. Once again, companies now can have just one single supplier. Not only do we sell technology, but we manage all the cyber risk. Among other things, this approach, in my opinion, is very interesting because it is compliant with all the regulations that the European Union has approved, in the past, they are still doing this, as for the management of cyber risk. The queen of regulations today is the NIS2. NIS2, of course, was, if you will, a very important element that happened in 2025. From the geopolitical point of view, this is complicated, uncertain, and economically complex. Once again, the NIS2 directive allowed us, anyway, to bypass the skepticism of investors. NIS2 talks about integrated risk management. We have NIS2 doing this. We also have many other regulations that emerged in the past years, and in a way, they are involving companies in order to have a better cybersecurity. Not just purchasing technology. We may have DORA, D-O-R-A regulation that involves, in general, banks, financial services. We also have many other acts. In those acts, basically, we involve companies that produce software programs and the AI Act that once again is becoming so interesting today. Because of the explosion of AI, you know that consumers are now using AI. It is now much more, let's say, deep or deeper than it was in the past. Not only do we have the problem of the entire approach to the management of cyber risks. It simplifies the organizational complexity of a company, and at the same time, it is so consistent, if you will, with the regulatory obligations. To cut a long story short, we can say that Cyberoo today in the domestic market and more and more on the international market, don't forget about Poland and Spain, we are able to bring on the market exactly what companies need today. We do this with a unique positioning. Once again, unique positioning. Today, we don't have other vendors on the market being able to offer. At the same time, an offer having to do with the identification of threats. We also have another element having to do with process governance. This is operating consulting services. We also have an offer on compliance. This has to do with Titaan, for example. Last but not least, an offer having to do with security awareness. We have vendors doing one thing, other vendors doing governance, and you also have vendors offering compliance software, and vendors doing security awareness. We have a unique, complete, comprehensive offer. The target is reducing the organizational complexity inside our companies. People or companies do not want to have too many suppliers. They are too difficult to manage. We are able to identify very well the needs of companies bringing a very consistent offer onto the market. Troubleshooting cybersecurity issues, but also internal organizational topics. We are in consistency with compliance and regulations. We think today we have a good management of AI, research and development on AI, which is very wise. We will see this in a minute. Today, we can do very healthy, well-balanced investments as for the profitability of the company, even if we keep the innovation level high, which is what we have in our positions. Last but not least, if you heard about this, I am sure that you know that this is so important for Cyberoo. Today, we bring on the market European technologies and services in Italy and in Europe, once again. The very complex geopolitical context makes us attractive for those companies who want to better manage their digital sovereignty. Cyberoo today in Europe is a unique organization, and I am sure that in the near future, we will become a differentiator of the market. Hopefully, we will also be able to be an Italian and European champion in the future. There is another key point that basically we have introduced in Cyberoo. This is something we now have on the market because we want to simplify and streamline the decision-making process of those acquiring our technologies. I am talking about the birth of Cyberoo Capital. Basically, we created it in December last year, December 2025. Cyberoo Capital is a company 100% controlled by Cyberoo. That is a company dedicated to the integration of own services. This means that if you have a customer, for example, that wishes to have, for example, the possibility to pay on a monthly basis, instead of having an upfront payment, maybe they want to pay over three years. There is an amortization system consistent with investments willingness. The upfront today is in many cases the preferred way. Cyberoo Capital allows us to get the contract from our partner closing the deal. The end customer, by the way. Offering the end customer the monthly installments over different years, more than one year, if you will. This means a much better, faster decision-making process. It depends on the financial resources of the customers. This means that at the same time, we will avoid exposing too much to commercial credits. I will show you this in a minute. Again, this is one of the solutions we have developed to reduce commercial credits. Once again, we do not have the exposure to this problem that came up, especially in 2024. On Cyberoo Capital, we know that in 2025, we have December 2025. We have different months, and once again, we have been working for some months, and we have decided not to consolidate it. In the numbers of Cyberoo 2025, with the closing in 2026, you will not find the numbers of Cyberoo Capital. It is very young, so we are basically 5 months long, but we already had generated EUR 600,000 proceeds and EUR 500,000 or EUR 0.5 million EBITDA. This means we had liquid availability. There was EUR 1 million at the end of March 2026. I am inviting to do some mathematical calculations because in the consolidated balance sheet, we miss some parts of the consolidated turnover, EUR 0.5 million EBITDA, and the net financial position, which is around EUR 1 million. Let us say that we think that Cyberoo Capital in the balance sheet of 2026, there will be very interesting contributions. Once again, this was not included in the consolidated financial statements this year. Let me now talk about EBITDA. I told you about how we managed to do very well in terms of proceeds. Let me now talk about profitability. I think that EBITDA is not a foreign issue in these 2025 financial statements. It is not the right time to talk about EBITDA the way we meant it until the recent past, because we made a choice, and we are, of course, developing investments. Those investments are partly capitalized. Once again, we are talking about one extra million in terms of capitalization, EUR 2 million, basically, were spent. What is the meaning of this? What have we spent the money on? The lion's share has been represented on Keatrix. Keatrix, for us, is, once again, very important. I will tell you important things. Keatrix is a very interesting solution for many different reasons. I will be talking about this in a minute. Let me also tell you that basically, today we bring on the market a product which is so innovative, so different versus competitors. This means that this is something we have developed over 2 years. This year, 2026, we will be continuing with the development of this product. Keatrix is now competing against competitors, and our competitors have been on the market for 10 years. Over 3 years, we did, if you will, better than those that are on the market that have been on the market for 10 years. A big investment. Keatrix, and this is really important, also allows us to open a distribution channel, which is much bigger. We will be talking about this with V-Valley. Again, Keatrix is now opening to a much bigger channel. It is easy to sell. It is, as we say, a product on the shelf. You sell it quickly. Once again, the development is reinforcing the distribution channel. Once again, this is something that we are doing. Today, we will not be talking about the new projects because, once again, in the world of cybersecurity, they will tell you more about this. Anyway, behind the scenes, we are keeping developing new projects because, I mean, cybersecurity is a complex effect, so threats are evolving constantly, and we are looking for the right balance. We have the fact of being innovative and striking a balance with profitability. Last but not least, we are continuing as we are doing. You know that AI is in a big hype. We talk about this. We use AI since the very beginning of our history. This is Let me tell you about Keatrix. Let me also tell you that all the research and development, this is giving our fruit. Some months ago, we have closed the contracts. We are moving positively from the commercial point of view, and we are also recognized for the quality of Keatrix as well. If you remember exactly what is happening is that in the Keatrix engine, we have a specific training. Its name is NeLP and the adaptive AI. This is the Best Methodology Award winner 2026, distributed by the Italian ecosystem. We are working with our own solution, and this means we are so different versus our competitors. They are really working on the system, and we think that this method is absolutely fundamental to teach people to have different behaviors. Not only this, but we have already won a contest in the Emilia-Romagna region. They will be able to develop the mobile phone and the evolution of Keatrix. We have to be able to do this. This is multi-device. It can be used from a smartphone or also from the desktop. Right now, our interlocution is B2B. The main reason and even the main device, this is why we believe in desktop, computer. We are seeing a bigger and bigger interest from some companies. You may think of banks, insurance companies, end users like bills, lights, gas, electricity, and many other interlocutors. They are not only interested in buying Keatrix for their own staff, but they are interested in purchasing Keatrix for their customers. This means that the bank is very much interested in offering their customers, for example, they have an active current account, so they have a very big topic, scams also for the end users, especially having to do with banks, insurance companies, and bills. We are getting more and more often some requests moving or displacing Keatrix into a new perspective. Right now it is an embryo, and we believe that all the R&D investments we are making can open new doors. Those new doors will give us the possibility to have a B2C world which has a huge potential. Exponential possibilities in terms of B2B business, of course. As I said before, the B2B business. Let's talk about this because we are facing B2B also thanks to a distribution agreement with V-Valley. This is Esprinet's business unit taking care of cybersecurity. We don't need to remember that they have a EUR 3 billion turnover. They are famous in Italy, but also abroad. They do this job very well. They distribute products. We are working with them in order to strengthen, significantly, the distribution network. This is a massive distribution in terms of volume, both in Italy and abroad. Keatrix is giving us the opportunity to be much stronger on the market, being recognized on the market. This will lead to a benefit in many other solutions. Keatrix has peculiarities, but of course, this is a partner that's not selling our Cyber Security Suite today. Maybe they are getting close to Keatrix or Cypeer, so they may want to evolve their portfolio to other functions. Once again, Keatrix is again a very important asset, and we think it will give us the possibility to do business, and in a way, it will also do good, if you will, to the rest of the portfolio. Don't forget that today on the market, we have this new possibility, which is the integration of all the businesses we have. As I said before, in our, let's say, labs, we are working in order to develop other projects. Right now I won't give you too many details because hopefully we will be talking about this to you later. Again, their target is to widen and broaden the technological possibilities we have today with plenty of novelties having to do with Cyber Security Suite. Once again, hopefully, we will be able to create new solutions at the very beginning of next year. There will be new projects. I won't tell you more about this. Okay. To wrap up this part of the presentation, let's say that the offer is consistent with the market. Income is going up double digit year-on-year. EBITDA has been sacrificed, but they are building long-term investments. This means we can open important doors. The objective in terms of EBITDA was to strike a balance, a specific balance between profitability on the one side and, of course, the future of the positioning of our solutions and suites. I think that, as far as this point is concerned, we're very happy because we think we have reached good results in terms of income, EBITDA. We keep investing, and results are very positive once again. Let me now talk about another key topic, and we have received plenty of interest in 2025. I mean related parties. Relationship with Sedoc have been difficult in 2025. What I would like to highlight is that we have listened to all of your constructive criticism. In 2025, I think and I'm sure that numbers are self-explanatory. In 2025, we've carried out plenty of choices in terms of governance and relationships. Today, we can say that we are very solid, very determined. Well, today we can say that we have used plenty of transparency in the relationships with the controlling company. This is why the point on related parties starts in July 2024. Once again, in July 2024, Sedoc, that until that time was completely disintermediated. They purchased by Cyberoo, all the solutions to be sold on the end market. July 2024, there was an intermediation by the distributor, and we have many. Today, we have V-Valley, we have COMETA, so more than one distributor. Anyway, from July 2024, the intermediation project with the controlling company started. There is more than this because we've also rationalized, if you will, all the relationships with many companies of the group. In June 2025, we have acquired 100% of the capital of different business units of many different companies included in the group with which we had many operations. For example, intercompany invoices. We brought all of this into the Cyberoo perimeter. Cyberoo Global AL specialized in the so-called key services and software development. Cyberoo Global UA, this is focusing basically on the activities on MFD International and software groups. This is another company of the group. Once again, this is to develop native solutions for cybersecurity. We have rationalized the governance, and there are so many companies with which we did plenty of business, so plenty of intercompany invoicing. July 2025, we decided to streamline and simplify definitely what was already inside the listing perimeter so that the governance was made easier and simpler. This is what we have done. Inside Cyberoo, we brought MFD International. Now, if you remember, MFD International was the company belonging to the group. Once again, it was inside the listing perimeter, taking care of the staff. For example, all of my marketing team was inside that company that has been taken inside Cyberoo. This is in terms of related parties relationships, so that we could reduce the intra-group relationships as well, and invoicing, as I said before. The second point with that was the focus on the commercial credits, as I said before. That was another, if you will, constructive, fruitful criticism from the market. Basically, this is what we have done. Three key things, maybe four, with Cyberoo Capital. The first one was very easy. Leasing and factoring contract with Crédit Agricole together with the BPER Factor. At the same time, we have taken on board in our distribution center another distributor. We also have COMETA, not only the V-Valley. From the commercial point of view, COMETA means we can reach Southern Italy in a much better way. But we also have to remember that COMETA has a model that gives us the possibility to implement a key distribution structure. There is more alignment between conditions applied to partners and to end customers. Once again, we have reduced exposure to commercial credits. Last but not least at all, we have acquired the commercial credits from Sedoc Digital Group. Now, I am sure you remember at the end of 2024, we had commercial credits to the controlling company. The value was EUR 11 million. This is what we have done. Sedoc ceded us most of their credits, EUR 5.7 million of face value. That was no expenditure, so no disbursement has been carried out. Rather, we have compensated EUR 5.7 million with EUR 5.0 actual cost. All of this has been compensated because once again, we have Sedoc's credits. They also had to give us credit. With no disbursements, we have set off. We compensated commercial credits by acquiring them. This means that today, those commercial credits are no longer towards the controlling company. Once again, we have reduced the deposition, but we have a commercial credit towards 2 other companies. In general, all these activities, I mean, the fact that having deducted general commercial credits because of the creation of Cyberoo Capital gives us the possibility to reduce credits. At the same time, we have the factoring with the Crédit Agricole and BPER. Together with the possibility with COMETA to reduce the exposure to commercial credits. Anyway, we have been able to reduce total commercial credits. Now, if you remember last year, there were around EUR 20 million, while today the value is around EUR 15 million. Once again, a set of commercial credits from EUR 11 million to EUR 2 million. In this case, there was a reduction by EUR 9 million. This is something that happened much earlier versus our forecasts that we have projected at the end of 2024. At the same time, we have reduced the total commercial credit by around EUR 5 million. Those commercial credits should be reduced over time because we found the system with which we can reduce exposure. It goes without saying that all this has also improved our net financial position, NFP. Our NFP is a credit of around EUR 0.8 million versus the debit position that we had last year. It was around zero, only EUR 20,000. That net financial position improves by 98%. I would like to tell you that the total cash is EUR 17.73 million. In my opinion, I have to say that, this allows us to say that we are very financially solid to keep going on with our business, plenty of stability and improving because we have removed the commercial credits problem. Of course, we can just do better. To summarize, let me tell you once again that the percent rates I give you in terms of growth compare 15 months over 12 months. Value of production +24%, total value EUR 31.3 million. In this case, we have six Okay, I said 600 million, but of course it was 600,000. Once again, the value of production is 24%. Once again, EUR 31.3 million, but once again, we have EUR 600,000 of Technocapital. Then sales revenues go up by EUR 21.3 million + EUR 27.71 million total value. Once again, you have to add EUR 600,000, just like Cyberoo Capital. Income from cybersecurity. This goes up 15 months over 12 months, 24.4%, but at the same time, they increase by 15% year-on-year. EUR 22.4 million and services +10%, digital transformation 15% worth EUR 10,000 total value. As for EBITDA, I have to say that EBITDA is EUR 8.56 million. Do not forget that in EUR 8.56 million, we do not have the EUR 0.5 million Cyberoo Capital, so we should have landed at EUR 9 million. EBITDA goes down by 11.95%. EBITDA margin goes down again by 11.5%. But in our opinion, the profitability is still very good, which is 27.4%. Profits go down by 41%, but the profitability is positive by EUR 2.57 million. Cash flows improve significantly. Basically EUR 800,000 or EUR 0.8 million. This is it with my presentation, and we are open and available to your possible questions, if any. Thank you. This is the conference call operator. We start now the Q&A session. If you want to ask a question, please dial star followed by one on your phone. If you want to get out of the list, please dial star followed by two. Please use your questions by using the receiver. Please dial star followed by one now. Thank you. Question number one is from Michele Filippi, DKM Partners. Good morning, Veronica. I hope you can hear me. Thank you so much for the presentation. Congratulations for the work on related parties. I have two questions. The first one is, how many commercial credits do we have in Cyberoo Capital at the 31st of March or as of today, which would be even better? Yes, just one second. Let me go back to the number. The second one is, if I have understood correctly, in order to develop the ecosystem in the financial statements that you have EUR 2 million So EUR 3 million have been capitalized. Which kind of capitalization are you expecting for the next 12 months to try and to have a level of margin? I mean, to try and forecast the level of margin which is possible. Thank you. This is correct. So we've considered the EUR 2 million, we've capitalized the one extra million, the total is then EUR 3 million. Now, as for 2026, on capitalization, we can expect more or less a similar number, so EUR 3 million to be capitalized, and on Keatrix, basically EUR 2 million may be required. Not just the Keatrix, but most is Keatrix. So this may be required or disbursed in 2026. So in the new fiscal year. So this means that there's a slight difference, because in the next one will be 12 months, while previously it was 15 months. Well, no, it will be on 12 months. Exactly, yes. It will be on 12 months, absolutely. I confirm on 12 months. Thank you. The next question, Edoardo Leone, Trading Room, Roma. Good morning. I hope you can hear me. Yes, please go ahead. Good morning, Mrs. Veronica Leonardi. Thank you so much for the presentation. Congratulations for the Sedoc position. I have a couple of questions. The first question is on Keatrix, because I remember that Keatrix have been presented as a platform that commercially speaking may be sold also abroad, right? Where MDR was a little bit more difficult to export. So I'd like to have some information on what is happening or may happen abroad. So do you have some specific targets for the next years or so on specific sales on Keatrix? So what about the breakdown in terms of the turnover? And the second question concerns the financial debt, because by reading the financial statements, I can see EUR 12 million in 2026, so in March. So is there a limit on financial debt? So how much can you do? Thank you. Let me answer the previous question from Michele Filippi. EUR 1 million credit. As for your questions, so Keatrix is becoming a very important element also in terms of the internationalization. Right now, the first contracts have been domestic contracts. So all of them are Italian contracts, and we are working with Arrow in Poland, but also in Spain with V-Valley, in order to also open the distribution of Keatrix abroad. But this is just a simple point. The platform, when released in December, started with Italian, so Italian and English, and this is the first language, and we are releasing now Spanish and Poland. And in September, once again, we will have other language. So we are working on the expansion of Keatrix in Poland and Spain right now. There's no specific breakdown on the turnover, because Keatrix contracts are very small. It's a volume product, if you will. So it hasn't impacted significantly, and in the next four years, we expect a significant increase of its value. So our hypothesis is that in the fourth years to come, we can do EUR 10 million recurring contracts with Keatrix. So it would be a good business. So we believe so much in this number, and in the next five years, Keatrix may generate EUR 10 million recurring profits. We don't know how to split this, domestic, Poland, France, Spain. Well, we cannot tell you now, but I have to say that, of course, this may be an indication concerning the invoice or, if you will, turnover by Keatrix. As for the debt, you see that the debt is going up, but the net financial position is a credit position. It is something natural, something physiological, if you will, because, as you know, we have a strong seasonality, especially in the second half of the year. At the very beginning of the year, we need a little bit more money. Debt for us is functional. It is the management of seasonality, but this means managing investments. I wouldn't expect a significant increase of the debt, because in terms of debt, once again, we think we have conservative positions. The financial leverage is exploited in a very balanced way. I hope I have answered your question. Yes, you have. Thank you. Next question, Andrea Zampaloni from Alantra. Good morning, Veronica, and thank you for the presentation. I have some questions on the statements of accounts and net financial position. Over 12 months, you did a +15% increase of the turnover, and I've now calculated the implicit number of the second H, so EUR 17 million, if I'm not mistaken. This is consistent with the performances and the seasonality of your business. I can say that as for Q1, I can see that the turnover is EUR 1 million. Yes, more or less it's right. The first quarter of the year is very low, and this is the low season after September. Once again, this is between September and December, and some contracts also touch, if you will, Q1. We keep saying that Q1 for us is absolutely low. Something like 7% only of our turnover. It is absolutely in line with the past year. Absolutely. Okay, and as for the new areas of growth, Keatrix, for example, Spain, and in terms of contribution. Once again, these are three verticals. As for Keatrix. In Keatrix, on average, we have €20,000. Keatrix was launched in December. For the first 3 months, we were talking about unimportant numbers. We are at the very beginning with Spain. Poland was quite good, I mean, in terms of EUR 1 million. Yes, very close to EUR 1 million. This is in compliance with our expectations. Poland has started with its mechanism, and Keatrix was launched in December 2025. We have to have many contracts, of course. V-Valley started in March. We expect a big potential right now. With the V-Valley and Keatrix, also Spain can find its way. We're very happy with the Spanish partners because they have signed the Cyber Security Suite contracts, and we are working so that these mechanisms fly high. This is to say that all the investments that we're making will have, of course, a specific return. There are some exceptions with Poland, and as for the rest, we need to see over time what is happening. We need to trust and believe in the investments that we are having. On Keatrix, in order to launch the product, you expected EUR 7 million investments on Keatrix. What about the platform? You now have recurring investments, and this is around EUR 2 million a year. Is this correct? Let's say we are moving forward, yes. These are the investments we expected, and maybe there are new needs, if you will. This is what I said before, we've been highly appreciated by banks, insurance companies, and entities from utilities, for example. Today, the platform is thought to be very B2B, so dedicated to, let's say, being dependent on a specific corporate context. We start having opportunities. This means that banks do not only buy Keatrix for the staff. They want to sell it or maybe to offer it. We have other possibilities. Maybe they want to offer this to current account holders. So the platform has to be changed in terms of contents, but also into the linguistic dimension of the platform. It is being developed for the main European languages: Italian, English, Spanish, German, Polish, and German. Adding languages, very well done. So we do not use AI for translation, of course. Doing them well. So adapting the language. So once again, this is not a literal translation. You have to consider the cultural context of every single nation. It requires plenty of commitment, and we may have around EUR 8.5 million on Keatrix. But the target is to have quite a high visibility on a B2C level. We want Attender in our region, and this may require some efforts. But once again, the target is to have so many users. So we may buy Keatrix on Google Play, and I may get it from the bank. I hope this is clear. Okay, very clear. Thank you, Sean. Okay, two more questions on the balance sheet. What about the financial mobilization for EUR 4.8 million? And I would like to have a precision on Cyberoo Capital. You have to consider it. Credits are now EUR 1 million. EUR 500,000 turnover. So this is quite a lot, right, in terms of interest. So just wanted to be sure that it was EUR 1 million credits. Thank you. Financials. Now, this concerns Cyberoo Capital because, as you know, Cyberoo Capital receives funds up to EUR 15 million from Cyberoo so that we can fund the monthly payments or installments. So they have to do with the fact that we have the capital to be invested in order to have monthly payments. Credits to Cyberoo Capital is EUR 1.1 million, but this credit is turning. This is the technical language, so it is quickly reabsorbed. It has to do with the quarter. Okay, this is it. Thank you. Thank you so much. For further questions, star followed by 1 on your phone now. Thank you. Next question is from Carlo Guzzia from Fineco. Good morning, Veronica, and congratulations for your results. We hear you perfectly, yes. Now, you said that the results that you have published do not have to be measured on EBITDA and margin. I just need a little precision. I have understood that the EBITDA that you have published does not include half a million euros. So I think that the EBITDA that you have published in the press release does not include the EUR 0.5 million from Cyberoo Capital because of the fact that it was not consolidated. And I also think that in the 15 previous months, we have had EUR 2 million generating EUR 500,000 EBITDA. Okay, so I think that this number may be increased by EUR 1 million, right? By considering this. Is this correct? Yes, it is 2.5, actually. Because if you consolidate Cyberoo Capital, we would have had EUR 9.1 million EBITDA. We spent EUR 2 million, so without those costs, we would have had EUR 2 million more because amortization is EUR 1 million more. So in general, we would have had EUR 2.5 million more. Okay, thank you. Very clear. Thank you so much. Thank you. For the time being, we have no other questions in the booking list. If you know very well, we are available. Again, we are always available for doubts and issues or questions. Don't forget to get in touch with us. We can say that shortly, we will have plenty of research. There will be Alantra together with what we did in the past, the research of KT&Partners together with research of Mediobanca. I am sure there will be plenty of opportunities to meet you and to comment past results, but especially the perspectives for the future. Once again, we are always available. See you at the next meeting. Thank you so much for your time. Bye-bye. Thank you.