Good afternoon. This is the Chorus Call Conference operator. Welcome, and thank you for joining the FinecoBank second quarter 2023 results conference call. As a reminder, all participants are in listen-only mode. After the presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. Should anyone need assistance during the conference call, let me signal an operator by pressing star and zero on the telephone. At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Alessandro Foti, CEO of FinecoBank. Please go ahead, sir.
Good afternoon, everyone, thank you for joining our first half 2023 results conference call. Adjusted net profit in the first half of 2023 was equal to EUR 309 million, up by 39% year-on-year, by 63%, excluding first half 2022 profits from treasury management. Adjusted revenues at EUR 601 million, increasing by 29% year-on-year, mainly supported by net financial income, which is sustained by our clients' very sticky and valuable transactional liquidity, and by investing, thanks to the volume effect and the higher control of the value chain by Fineco Asset Management. Operating costs well under control at EUR 144.5 million, increasing by 5% year-on-year by excluding costs related to the growth of the business. Adjusted Cost Income Ratio was equal to 29...
24.1%, decreasing year-on-year and confirming operating leverage as a key strength of the bank. In the first half of the year, Fineco recorded an outstanding commercial performance, thanks to our organic growth strategy. First of all, we recorded a further acceleration in our new clients' acquisition, increasing by around 25% year-on-year. This is a particularly healthy and remarkable growth, considering that we have not changed our clients' acquisition strategy and that the competitive environment is crowded with short-term, aggressive commercial offers on rates. Second, our net sales confirmed to be very solid, with EUR 5.2 billion inflows in the first half of the year.
This trend is confirmed also in July, with estimated net sales at around EUR 500 million, of which deposits at +EUR 200 million, despite the EUR 260 million of higher taxes year-on-year paid by clients in the month, driven by the decision by the government to anticipate in July, taxes that last year were paid in August. Asset under management at around EUR 40 million, due to around -EUR 160 million of outflows from the low-margin insurance business, and asset under custody at around EUR 250 million. July brokerage estimated revenues are equal to EUR 14 million, more than 35% higher compared to the average July revenues in the period 2017, 2019.
Third, our network of personal financial advisors continued to be, once again, the leader in terms of productivity within the asset gatherer space, thanks to our powerful organic growth engine and the fintech game. Our capital positions continued to be strong and safe, with a Common Equity Tier 1 Ratio at 23.2% and a leverage ratio at 4.68%. Looking at 2023 and going forward, we expect to continue to deliver a strong growth, thanks to our very diversified business model. Looking at 2023 and going forward, we expect to continue to deliver a strong growth, thanks to our very diversified business guidance, which are all confirmed. More in detail, our net financial income, we confirm it to increase in 2023 by around 70% versus 2022.
On investing revenues, we confirm our 2023 revenues guidance, expected to increase high single digit compared to 2022, with higher after-tax margins. For 2024, we confirm our net sales and management fees margins expectations. On brokerage, we confirm for 2023, expected revenues strong, with a floor higher versus pre-COVID period. On operating costs, we expect a 6% growth year-on-year in 2023, not including around EUR 2 million of additional costs for Fineco Asset Management, strategic discontinuity, and at least around EUR 3 million of additional marketing expenses. We expect our cost to risk in a range between five and nine basis points, and finally, we expect a growing CET1 ratio and leverage ratio. Let's now move on slide five.
Adjusted net profit in the first half of the year stood at EUR 309 million in a very challenging macro scenario, increasing by 39% year-on-year, and by 63%, excluding profits from treasury management realized in the first half of last year. Revenues at EUR 600.7 million, up by 29.4% year-on-year, as we have been able to catch the strong acceleration in the structural trends in place. The strong growth of our net financial income, increasing by 86% year-on-year, is supported by our high quality and capital line net interest income, growing by 158.5% year-on-year, and with a very low contribution by lending. Net commissions increased by 4.1% year-on-year, thanks to the contribution of investing and banking.
As for the trading profit, let me remind you that in this line, we there are accounted -EUR 5.1 million related to the ineffectiveness of hedging derivatives, in accordance with the accounting standard IFRS 9, compared to the +EUR 11.7 million in the first half 2022. The value is influenced both by the spread between the Euro short-term rate and the Euribor, and by the amount of the fair value of the derivatives. Excluding this effect, the decline of the trading profit is mainly related to the lower brokerage activity, due to the level of market volumes. Operating costs at EUR 144.5 million, while under control and increasing by 5% year-on-year, excluding costs strictly related to the growth of the business.
Mainly, additional cost for Fineco Asset Management to further expand its business and have an higher control of the value chain. Additional marketing costs to catch the strong momentum of the business. Let's now move on slide six for a deep dive on the performance of the investing business. Investing revenues were equal to EUR 156.2 million in the first half, increasing by 4.8% year-on-year. Let me please remind you the quality of our investing revenues, mirroring our transparent and fair approach towards clients. As a result, our revenues are exclusively driven by recurring management fees, with only 1% contribution from placement fees and no performance fees at all.
In the second quarter, management fees margin after tax increased to 53.8 basis points, up both on year-on-year and quarter-on-quarter, thanks to the strong contribution by Fineco Asset Management. Let's now move up to slide seven for a focus on our asset management company. As you know, Fineco Asset Management is progressively taking more control of the investing value chain, resulting in higher revenues and margins for the group. The contribution of Fineco Asset Management to the group asset under management, net sales, is further improving regardless of the macro scenario, moving from 81% in the first half of 2022, to 122% in the first half of 2023.
At the end of June, the contribution of Fineco Asset Management, out of the total stock of assets under management of the bank, moved from 28.8% in the 2Q of 2022, to 33.4%. The commercial performance by Fineco Asset Management this year has been outstanding, not only in absolute, but also in relative terms. Down in the slide, we are showing a benchmarking based on Assogestioni retail net sales as of June. As you can see, our Irish company delivered the highest net sales compared to the most relevant asset managers operating in Italy. This remarkable result is due to firm effectiveness in quickly developing the right set of products to catch what clients are currently looking for.
Our Irish company has recently developed a new generation of capital-protected investment solutions, which is now further widening to allow clients to build a protected exposure towards it. Let's now move on to slide eight for a focus on brokerage. Brokerage, as usual, registered an excellent first half at EUR 96 million, resulting in a monthly average 43% higher compared to the monthly average revenues in the period 2017, 2019. Confirming a structurally higher floor compared to pre-pandemic levels, regardless of the market conditions. Let me remind you that the growth of the brokerage business is driven by the contribution of three structural components. First, the continuous process of deep reshape of our brokerage business.
Second, the widening of our client base using the platform, with active investors growing significantly in absolute terms, and standing around 35% above the average level of 2018, 2019. Third, we are continuously increasing our retail market share. As you can see on slide 9, all of this is translating in a very resilient revenues generation, regardless of the market context, delivering a far better performance compared to peers. Let's now move on slide 11, for a focus on our capital ratios. Fineco confirmed once again, a capital position well above requirements, and expected to grow on the wave of a safe balance sheet. Common Equity Tier 1 Ratio at 23.2%, and leverage ratio at 4.68%.
While risk-weighted assets at EUR 4.6 billion, and total capital ratio at 34.04% as of June 2023. As for the liquidity ratio, liquidity coverage ratio is at 785%, and Net Stable Funding Ratio is at 384%. Before moving to the next slide, let me underline that our rock-solid capital position has been confirmed by the results of the stress test by European Banking Authority and the European Central Bank. Fineco emerged among the top three Italian banks, and among the best European banks, and even in an adverse scenario, we reported an improvement in our CET1 ratio. Let's now move to slide 14, for a focus on acceleration of our commercial dynamics.
Let me spend a few words on the strong acceleration of our new clients acquisition, which is even more remarkable considering the context. As you can see from the graph on top of the slide, new clients in the first half were 25% higher year-on-year. This result has been achieved keeping our marketing strategy unchanged. This is clearly shown by our most recent marketing campaign, which was only focused on Fineco positioning and not relying on any short-term aggressive offers or rates. Our clear aim is to build up a reputable brand that generates a positive word of mouth. This translates in the acquisition of a high quality and sticky client base, key to grow a healthy business in a long-term horizon. Let me also add that we have recently increased the efficiency of our marketing engine, thanks to our brand new onboarding process.
First of all, we introduced responsive onboarding and app accessibility, making it easier for customers to open accounts from any device. Secondly, we streamlined the entire onboarding journey by simplifying each step. This optimization has significantly improved our conversion rate, while also lowering acquisition cost, as you can see down in the slide. Let me also quickly comment on slide 18, as another key driver for our organic growth, is the best-in-class productivity of our personal financial planners, helped by our fintech DNA. As you can see in the slide, the productivity of our network in terms of assets under management, net sales, has been by far helped by our fintech DNA. As you can see in the slide, the productivity of our network in terms of assets under management, net sales, has been by far the best one within the sector.
Let's now move on to slide 19. Deep dive on our transactional liquidity. The granularity and stickiness of our deposits base is confirmed quarter by quarter, with a transactional liquidity around 90% of our client deposits. This is the result of a clear strategy we have taken more than 10 years ago, when we stopped remunerating liquidity and focused on our client acquisition 100% on the quality of our one-stop solution. As you can see from the slide, 98% of our deposits is represented by retail clients. Second, our deposits are extremely granular, with an average ticket of around EUR 19,000, and a median ticket at EUR 4,700. Third, 76% of our deposits is under the protection of the deposit guarantee scheme.
On top of this, differently from other players, mostly focused on brokerage and investing, our one-stop solution relies on a fully-fledged banking platform. Our clients are not just using our bank for brokerage or investing purposes, but all of our quality banking proposition for their daily life. Indeed, we have 50% of the clients crediting salary with us. Let's now move on slide 20 to deep dive on the net sales of our deposits during the first half of this year. On the left-hand side of the slide, you can find the evolution of net sales this year. Inflow of assets and clients continue to be very robust, as the bank continued to benefit from the long-term structural trends underpinning the growth. Let's now focus on the breakdown of the net sales.
With deposits being negative due to the reinvestments into assets under custody and under, and assets under management of the excess liquidity of our clients. In the box down on the left of the slide, you can see that in the first half of the year, the bank collected +EUR 8.4 billion of liquidity coming from salary and pensions, and +EUR 6 billion from bank transfers. After the expenses in cards, bills, taxes, deposits were still up by EUR 4 billion. In taking into account also the investments in asset under management and asset under custody, the final result is -EUR 2.1 billion of deposits net sales. Moving on the right side of the slide, we share our usual graph on the daily balance of the bank transfers.
As you can see, it has firmly remained on the positive territory, meaning that Fineco is keeping on acquiring new liquidity from the banking system, also from institutions that they are remunerating liquidity. On the graph below, we confirm the trend in terms of liquidity flows per cluster of clients. Clients with total financial assets below EUR 100,000 increased the amount of liquidity in the bank, and this is mainly transactional. On the other hand, the cash sorting process has been 100% driven by wealthier clients, which in the past accumulated excess liquidity waiting to be invested. Let me also add that looking at private banking clients, the liquidity as a percentage of total financial assets is now at 13%, the lowest level since 2015, suggesting that they are approaching the floor.
Finally, please note that the new clients acquired in the year also brought positive liquidity. Let's now move on with slide 22 for focus on our guidance. On banking revenues, we expect net financial income in 2023 to grow by around 70%. Going forward, we expect the Net Interest Income to keep on benefiting from the interest rates environment and the stabilization of deposits. Overall, banking fees are expected stable compared to 2022. On investing, taking into consideration the market effect, up to the end of July, we confirm our 2023 expected revenues to increase high single digits year-on-year, with higher management fees margin after tax, and with Fineco Asset Management, retail net sales up to around EUR 5 billion. As it is able to catch the outflows coming from insurance wrapper in the new interest rate environment.
Overall, banks asset under management stays at around EUR 4 billion. In 2024, we confirm around EUR 5 billion expected net sales in the overall banks asset under management. For our Irish company, we confirm with their net sales at around EUR 4.5 billion. Finally, despite the challenging context, we also confirm the increase of our management fees margin after tax, up to around 55 basis points by 2024, thanks to the Fineco Asset Management operational efficiency. Pre-tax margins are confirmed to at around 73 basis points by 2024. Brokerage revenues are expected to remain strong, with a flow in relative terms with respect to the market context that is definitely higher than in the pre-COVID period.
Operating costs in 2023 are expected to grow at around 6% year-on-year, not including around the EUR 2 million of additional costs related to Fineco Asset Management strategic discontinuity, and at least EUR 3 million of additional marketing expenses. Cost Income, we confirm our guidance on a continuously declining Cost Income in the long run, thanks to the scalability of our platform and to the strong operating gearing we have. Systemic charges for the year expected at around EUR 50 million. On capital ratios, for the year, we expect a growing CET1 ratio and leverage ratio, currently with the combination of both a strong acceleration in the growth of the bank and the distribution of generous dividends. On dividend per shares, going forward, we expect it constantly increasing, also thanks to progressive delivery on our strategic discontinued.
Customer risk was equal to five basis points, thanks to the quality of our lending portfolio that is offered exclusively to our loyal customer base. In 2023, we expect it hitting a range between five and nine basis points. Finally, we expect robust and high-quality net sales, keeping our priority in direction of asset under management. Let's now move to slide 25. Let me share the usual update on our U.K. business. We are still dialoguing with the local regulators to find the right setup post-Brexit. We will continue to develop our U.K. business only if we will be allowed to remain with the branch, and a very capital light business model, leveraging on the Italian infrastructure. Business-wise, the performance has been quite strong, considering that we stopped our marketing activity.
Our client base kept on increasing, thanks to the word of mouth, and our revenues generation has increased by more than 58% year-on-year, reaching EUR 1.5 million in the first half. Once we will finalize our discussion with the U.K. regulators, we will focus on the rest of the European Union. Thank you for your time. We can now open the call to questions.
This is the Chorus Call Conference operator. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touch-tone telephone. To remove yourself from the question queue, please press star and two. We kindly ask you to use the handset when asking questions. Anyone who has a question may press star and one at this time. We will pause for a moment as participants are joining the queue. The first question is from Azzurra Guelfi, from Citi. Please go ahead.
Hi, good afternoon. I have a couple of questions, if I can. One is on the NII. I hear you have confirmed your guidance, but the rate curve has moved, and if anything, the deposit trend seems to be stabilizing and improving from now on. Can I just ask you why you didn't review your guidance, and how do you expect the outlook for 2022 in terms of like net interest income development? The second one is on the slide that you put on the AUM, slide 18. Clearly, I guess, all this good performance on AUM is linked to FAM.
If you can give us a little bit more color on what are the initiatives that has been taken there in terms of new product, and if you can elaborate a little bit more on what the pipeline for the second half? If I may, one more on the leverage ratio. Leverage ratio has improved sizably quarter-on-quarter because of the deposit trend, I guess, and this could lead to higher capital return. If you can give us some color on your thinking about capital return. Thank you.
Let me start by the first question. It's clear that an environment in which we have an higher rate and a clear indication of stabilization of the base of deposits and so on. Clearly, this is by definition, is positive for the evolution of Net Interest Income. At the same time, we want to keep a reasonable, and let me say, is a decently conservative approach, because we know that market conditions, they can change, so particularly the expectational rates and so on. So this is the reason.
We, we think that it makes sense to, to stay where we are, that it's, it's a, it's an excellent number in any case, and then we will see. My opinion, the, the most important, so clearly the, on the rate, we are progressively observing an stabilization of the cash sorting process. On the, on the slide 18, yes, we will throughout our asset management company, we have been absolutely an, an absolutely positive outlier in comparison with the, in, in, in, in terms of productivity. The reason is mostly related to the, the, the, the fact that Fineco is using an historically, a lot of technology in interacting with the network, and this is making by definition, everything.
Our financial planners, they are really in the position to spend nearly 100% of their time in running their job as a financial planner, not like like administrative employees. In Fineco Asset Management, the initiatives are mostly in direction of capturing in real time the emerging needs by the clients and the and the financial planners. The secret is to have a company that is incredibly fast, agile, reactive. We have been quite effective in bringing to the clients solutions, smart solutions, focused on fixed income solutions that are very well in demand, in demand. Same story with the exposure to equities, with the protection of capital. Clearly, we have plenty of additional initiatives that they are in the pipeline.
The leverage ratio has improved in a big way. If someone is interested in having a little bit more color on the evolu- of the recent evolution of the leverage ratio, probably, we can ask to our CFO to give more details. It's clear that the bank is also assuming an a very gener-- the continuations of a very generous dividends payments. Is on track for keeping on building up additional and excess amount of capital. As we had the opportunity to discuss in the recently, in the next few months, we will explore all the what are, what can be the best way to use this excess of capital.
We can rule out from the beginning, any direction in increasing our lending activity. Lending is going to remain an ancillary business. Also we can rule out any interest in entering any M&A transactions. Everything is going to be just focused in managing the excess of capital.
The next question is from Domenico Santoro from HSBC. Please go ahead.
Hello. Hi, good afternoon. Thanks for the presentation. A bit of questions from my side, because I guess there is a little bit of conservatism in the guidance that you just gave. First of all, let's dig a little bit more on the NII, because if I look at your guidance for this year, I guess that the quarterly run rate for the third and the fourth quarter is around EUR 170 million, more or less, of NII, if I'm not wrong. If I look at the breakdown on page 35, your lending component increased by EUR 10 million, more or less, quarter by quarter. That means that the financial component will go down sequentially in the second part of the year.
I'm just wondering, in your guidance, what's the implied decline in the stock of securities, which is, I guess, symmetric to the loss of deposits? The question is, what you have implied in terms of deposit outflows, and symmetrically in terms of financial investments. I, I, I saw that you removed, in your guidance, the hint at the fact that the NII will pick in the fourth quarter. I'm just wondering now what the sequence of NII that you have in mind. The other question is on the stock of securities, because I see that you cut the exposure to Italy by EUR 2 billion, and the securities portfolio by EUR 2 billion, while you lost EUR 800 million, more or less, of deposits in the, in the quarter.
I'm just wondering why you cut more the securities portfolio, and maybe you anticipated something, and what should we expect going forward? The other question is on banking fees as well, because if I look at your guidance, your guidance implies that the second part of the year will be weaker than the first part of the year. Why is that? And if you have in mind any cut in banking fees or anything that you can tell us. The other question is on investing fees, because, I mean, you are doing better here compared also to the other competitors. I wonder what the implied market performance in your guidance. Is it zero? Because I guess you can do a little bit better.
I'm just wondering whether now you're more confident maybe to stay in the upper end of the high single digits that you mentioned. A question on the systemic charge for next year. I wonder whether this will disappear completely from your P&L. What's your, what's your assumption in 2024? To come back to the question of the colleague about the shareholders' remuneration. Just wonder, I know that you will tell us more going forward, but why we should think about extra buyback at this point, given the, the valuation of the stock, where it is, if this is an option, and whether you are considering is that distribution of a dividend of an extraordinary dividend? Thank you very much. Thanks.
Thank you. First of all, so I, I, I'm not sure that I, I got correctly your point, on the, on the, on the first questions, because, your point is, focused. Domenico, please help me in-
Yeah.
Understanding exactly, which is your, your, your, your point, because, so we-
On the NII, you mean, right?
Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
Which is your-
Yeah, very simply.
Very simply, yeah.
Sorry, if I've been probably a little bit complicated. If I look at your guidance in terms of NII, right?
Yes.
For the year, that means that Q3, Q4 is, is going to be more or less around rate of around 170, more or less, right? Or maybe it might be different, you tell us. That means that the lending component, it keeps increasing quarter by quarter because of the repricing, because of the lending book. That means that the other part of your NII, the financial component, will go down if, you know, this makes sense for you. I'm just wondering how much you think about cutting the securities portfolio even more, from now on, and what's the implied assumption in terms of deposit outflows? Because it's all based on that, I guess.
As we, as we said, we, we are keeping an. Let me say, every time that you're talking about the evolution of NII, as explained, we. There are components that we, we, we are controlling, on which we, we have a, let me say, a reasonable and decent visibility. For example, we, with the, the, the fact, as we, over the last few months, we continued to repeat it to the, the market that we, we were extremely relaxed on the cash sorting process because we were relaxed by the fact that we are sit on a huge amount of transactional liquidity, and at a certain point, this cash sorting is expected to stabilize.
This clearly is something on which we can, we can make an, a decent, and, forecast. There is the, the, the other component that is related to the market. As you can see, because we, we, we, we, we saw the reaction of the market recently when we, we gave a guidance that was perfectly consistent with the forward rate curve. When, and when this has been changed, considering the change and so on, the, the market has not been pleased. We think that it makes sense to stay on the, on, let me say, you know... I'm not saying on the, on the decently cautious side. This is the, so this is, this is the point.
Regarding the peak, the peak is going to be, well, it's difficult to predict exactly the perfect timing of the peak of the but it's going to more or less in the region of going throughout the year end. There is going to probably we expect to have the peak in the financial income, in the, yes, in the Net Interest Income. Stock of security, we cut the exposure to Italy by EUR 2 billion, while you lost EUR 800 million of deposits in the second quarter. Yes, but this has been, you have to look to that, because overall, we finished the first half with a decline of deposits that was more or less in the region of EUR 2 billion.
The, the sales of Italian bonds is perfectly current with the decline of the deposits. The reason why we sold Italian bonds is absolutely perfectly aligned with the guidance we gave several years ago, that our goal was to keep on reducing our exposure to Italy and Spain, not because we have any concern on several years ago, that our goal was to keep on reducing our exposure to Italy and Spain, not because we have any concern on Italy and Spain, but because we, we want to, we want to keep on running in an extremely, very well diversified balance sheet in order to decrease the, what, let me say, the, the, the cost of equity attached to this. Banking fees guidance implies a weaker two thou- second half.
This is related to the, the currently with the indication, with the indication received by Bank of Italy. We, we, we, we reduced the fees charged to the clients. We introduced, when we had, when we were in a period of time with negative rates. We, because we, at a certain point, we introduced additional fees to clients justified by the negative rates. Now, the negative rates are, they're, they're gone, so now we are going to bring back these clients to the original conditions. Investing fees, we, we, we, our approach, we, we embed the, the, the, the, the, the, the market situation at, at the, at a certain point. So for example, we...
Here, we have embedded the market performance at the end of the first half, and then for the remaining part of the year, we, we, we are, we, we have a natural approach. We are assuming a zero performance by the market. On systemic charges for 2024, I'm asking to Lorena if, if you can give more color on the, what we can expect going through 2024.
Thank you, Alessandro. Good afternoon to everybody. For 2024, we expect a contribution in a range between EUR 38 million-EUR 40 million, of which around EUR 37 million related to deposit guarantee scheme, and EUR 1 million related to the Single Resolution Fund. The contribution of Single Resolution Fund has to reach a percentage of 1% of the protected deposit. The deposit guarantee scheme has to reach by the middle of 2024 a percentage of 0.8% of protected deposit.
Okay. Thank you, Lorena.
You're welcome.
Regarding the shareholders remuneration. So the, what is the, the, what is is clear that Fineco is on track for progressively accumulating excess capital. The reason is pretty simple. The business model is completely capital light. The only potential point of attention was represented in the past by the leverage ratio, but the leverage ratio now is with a combination of continuous growing profitability of the bank and extremely very well under control growth on the base of deposits. Leverage ratio is expected to keep on going up and up. It's clear that, also remaining consistent with the very high remuneration of the past, the bank is expected to keep on building up excess of capital.
As I was saying, we, the, we, we are not considering increasing the lending and also any M&A option. What is remaining on the table, we have practically there is, there is, or there is several options. One option is to, for example, reimburse the AT1 expiring next year. Another one can be to increase progressively the dividends, and another one is to is to consider an an a blend of increasing the dividends and entering in a buyback in a buyback process. This is going to be addressed in the next few months by the bank also.
As usual, we are going to dialogue with the regulator in order to be sure that everything we have in mind is perfectly aligned with their point of view. What is pretty clear, that the bank is on track for keeping on building up an evident success of capital.
Thank you very much. This is very clear. Can I just ask what the assumption in terms of deposits loss in the second part of the year? I think it's important to understand assumptions, you know, behind your guidance.
Yeah. Our assumption is that, as, w- what my suggestion is, has been also in the past, to be extremely, extremely prudent in trying to make forecasts on the evolution of deposits month by month, because, as we can see, there are seasonality, plenty of situations and so on. The assumptions we are, the what we are, what you are, what we expect, the, the clear... The assumptions are remaining as we discussed, we are remaining cautious, because by definition is, we think that this is the right approach. At the same time, we, we think that it's reasonable to expect an progressive stabilization of the cash sorting, but for evident reasons. The largest part of our liquidity is transaction liquidity, that is completely unaffected by what's going on on rates.
The clients that are the most interested in the cash sorting process are now approaching a kind of floor level that is. Going below that level is becoming less and less. It's becoming very, very difficult. This is the sum. Again, we are keeping on maintaining a cautious approach.
All right. Thank you very much. Thanks.
The next question is from Giovanni Razzoli from Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon. Three questions, very fast and three details. First one, if you can share with us, if you have this data, what percentage of private client assets are now invested into domestic sovereign bonds? The second question is, if you can share with us, what was the contribution of the new product launched since the beginning of the year, that is the Target Date Funds. Interesting to know what is the year-to-date contribution and the, and the one in, in June and, and July. The last question is a clarification on the EUR 4 billion of AUM inflows target for 2023. If I read correctly, your slide number 3 or 4, you're mentioning that, in July, the AUM inflows were EUR 40 million, with still negative insurance contribution.
I struggle to reconcile this figure with the, the, the EUR 4 billion with the, with the relatively weak performance in, in July. I was wondering whether I, I, got your feedback, sorry, your, your guidance correctly and the, and the clarification for July. Thank you.
Yeah. Regarding the first two questions, if you, if you don't mind, we are going to come back to you later on because, honestly speaking, I don't have in front of me the percentage of product clients that they are invested in Italian goals, but I think that it's a quite interesting number. We prefer to come, to come, to come back to you with the right numbers, and the same story for the second question. Regarding the EUR 4 billion assets under management target, yes, we think that this is achievable considering the new pipeline of solutions.
At the same time, it's a matter of fact that the lack of interest by clients for insurance wrapper is remaining. We can't rule out the possibility to have additional outflows by the insurance wrapper. At the same time, we are not particularly concerned by this, because as we explained several times, the insurance wrapper are characterized by extremely low margins. At the end of the story, for us, what is important is what, what does it mean in terms of impact on revenues and margins? Regarding that point, we are absolutely relaxed, and so on. In any case, we think that EUR 4 billion of net sales on assets under management is challenging, but achievable by the bank.
Thank you.
The next question is from Enrico Bolzoni, from JPMorgan. Please go ahead.
Hi, good afternoon. Thanks for taking the question. One is on NII, actually, for 2024. If you look at consensus, it's still pretty flattish year-on-year, even if clearly the forward curves-
Suggested an increase, and, and deposits seem to stabilize. Do you have any comment to make there on whether you think that a flat NII consensus year-on-year is a sensible number to have, or actually seems maybe a bit too cautious? That's my first question. My second question relates to the flows in insurance product. Can you just remind us, what is the total stock of these products, just to get an idea of how much more outflows we could see for the rest of the year? A third question. I noticed that the spread on the floating part of the portfolio has been decreasing. It was 50 basis points in Q1, and now it's 36 basis points. Can you give some color on what to expect?
Have we reached the floor for the spread on the floaters, or actually can potentially go down a bit more? Finally, at the European level, they've been discussing a number of proposal in terms of regulation for the asset management industry. Two in particular caught our attention. One is the introduction of a, of a value for money, and one of a best interest principles for clients. It can be quite, quite material for the industry. Have you looked into those, and can you give any comment in, in whether you think Fineco is prepared to withstand a change in the regulatory environment? Thank you.
Yes. So regarding the 2024, as we, as we discussed before, it's always extremely difficult to make a precise comment on the 2024, because as we, we, we, we were saying, we have two components. One that is more or less in our hands, that is the evolution of deposits, in which we are more and more confident, considering what we discussed before for industrial reasons. Then there is the evolution of rates. It's very difficult to make a, a bet on that, so it's because there is the forward rate curve, but as we are continuously seeing, is frequently wrong. To make a comment on a, on a forecast on rates that which clearly that can change any time, it's very difficult.
For us, what is very important, that is the, that the largest part of our deposits is incredibly sticky, and we, we can keep on running our strategy of, of not using rates for running the business. Clearly, this is my comment for 2024. It's clear that the combination of, of stabilizing deposits, and the, and the, and the forward curve remaining stronger, clearly, it's positive for us. The insurance, the total stock of the insurance wrapper is just below EUR 15 billion. This is the, is the total stocks of the insurance product. That clearly, as we...
honestly speaking, this, we, this, outflows for the insurance wrapper, clearly, we see this more than an opportunity than a threat, because as we were saying, the insurance wrapper are, by definition, the least profitable products that we have on the shelf, just for the simple reason that we, we don't have an a product factory internally, so we have to rely on external counterparties. This part of the business is the part that is characterized by the lowest level of profitability. Spread on floating bonds has decreased because we sold, clearly, the EUR 2 billion we sold, we sold as being represented by swapped Italian Govies, that by definition, are characterized by the highest spread.
This is not. There is anything, anything different. There is-
On the regulatory environment.
Yes, on the, on the... Yes, we are looking to the, to what's going on there. Fineco is by definition, as you probably are very familiar, has been always characterized by running a business model in which the fairness, transparency, and try to give to clients the best ratio between quality of services and, and pricing, has been the, the, the, the driving, our driving priority. Clearly, we are in, we think in, in relative terms, in a great position for managing any kind of outcome by the, by the authorities.
The next question is from Panos Lynoos from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Thanks for taking my questions. I have a couple follow-ups, if I may. My first question is on cash migration. In the first half of the year, there was strong demand for fixed income products and BTPs, so which accelerated the cash migration into AUC. What trends do you expect in the second half of the year? Do you see customer demand shifting more into equities and funds, or you see similar trends to previous months? My second question is on management fee margin. In addition to the fund penetration and the market impact, do you see any product mix effect which could positively or negatively influence the margin fee expansion? I mean, you mentioned the opportunity from less profitable insurance wrappers which are shifting and also firm recently launched new products.
Just wondering what would be the impact, if any, to the margin? Thanks.
Regarding the cash migration, we, we don't see any significant change in the mix of the appetite by clients. We think that still, for the foreseeable future, the appetite of client is going to be mostly in direction of fixed income solution or at best, equity solution, but with the protection of capital. This is not going to, is not going to change significantly anytime soon. This is the, our is, what we are expecting to happen within the next few months. On management fee margins, we have several elements contributing to the evolution on management margins, because on one end, there is very positive, is the, is the, the, the strong percentage represented by Fineco Asset Management.
That is definitely higher than in the, for example, the last year, and this is positive. Clearly there is something that is less positive, that is the skew in the direction of fixed income solutions, that by definition are less profitable. Finally, there is theoretically and going forward, a positive effect so represented by the substitution of the insurance products with the other kind of solution. Putting everything together, we think that makes sense to remain stuck and consistent with the guidance we are giving on margins. Because it's an extremely complex environment in which we have...
It's like to, to be on a, on a, on a crosswave sea, which you have waves, waves coming from, different directions. The result is more or less, it's nothing. It's, so we, we think that makes sense to keep then the margins where the, the, the, the expected margins are where they are.
Yeah. Thanks.
The next question is from Alberto Villa, from Intermonte. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon. A couple of questions from my side as well. One is related to the guidance. You didn't put any indication on the financial advisors. Last time you indicated 100-120. I was wondering if that number is confirmed? The second one is on the international expansion. Maybe I missed because I was disconnected, but during the call, you are rephasing the timing of the entrance in other markets like Germany or every all the plans are confirmed. Finally, a question on the competitive environment and technology. Now, there has been a lot of discussion about the impact of artificial intelligence on many industries, including asset management.
I was wondering what is what you are expecting in terms of investments in technology. If there, there would be more to address these potential opportunities, and how do you think it can impact revenues and and cost in in the future? I'm also referring to what I've heard from the largest Italian bank that has pushed a lot in the last presentation towards artificial intelligence and technology, and launching this initiative, Fideuram Direct, that eventually could look at as a potential competitor, let's say, not new, because Fideuram is there since many years and and before the others. Potentially approaching clients with the more technological and innovative twist.
I was wondering, what are your thinking about the opportunities for a company like Fineco, which is digital since day one, on those factors? Thank you.
Regarding the first point, the, on the recruiting, probably we, at, at the moment, we probably we can expect a few 10s of less financial planners recruited going throughout the year end, but it's a little bit too, too early to say. If we were to stay on the cautious side, probably we can expect a little bit softer on the recruiting side. Again, this is not doesn't make any material difference, considering that our, our growth is mostly organically driven. Never we, we relied on the recruiting on new financial planners for growing. But this...
On the international expansion, we are as we explained during the presentation, we are awaiting the final answer by the U.K. authorities, if they are going to allow us to stay in U.K. as a branch, so without putting in place any capital-intensive business model. Also because our key prerequisite to remain in U.K. is to keep on running a capital light business model and leveraging on our local infrastructures. If this is not going to be the case, we are going to leave.
As soon as we, we, we are finished this interaction with the U.K. authorities, and we have the final answer, we are going to start a reassessing process on what to do in the other European countries. On the technology, Artificial intel, first of all, let me make an, just an, a very quick and straightforward comment. Artificial intelligence is among us by many years. Now, it's become cool, but Artificial intelligence is everything which you are able to manage data and so on, in order to get the, an extremely efficient and automated control of processes and so on. This is among us by, by many years, and Fineco is using this approach by quite large and so on. For this reason, we don't expect any material impact on revenues and cost by this.
Regarding all the initiatives that they are underway, overall, I'm not, I'm not going to make an direct comment related to the single place, but what is, all these place they have in common, that they are providing, an vertical solution for their clients. Because, the case of, of, the, the digital bank, launched by the, the, the largest Italian bank is, is practically is a, is a payment gate... is a payment gate, is, is not, cannot be considered an, an, a full-fledged solution and so on. The same story for you're mentioning Fed-- Fideuram Direct, it's a solution that is just... For example, the FinecoBank is a different story because we are offering, something that is unique, that is the one-stop solution.
From the same banking account that you are using for the day-by-day life, you can do everything you need. You can trade on the, all the, the markets all over the world in a very sophisticated way. You can interact with investing platform, one single account for all your life. From this point of view, I think that still all the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the most part of banks are very far away from this. Again, behind this, there is an extremely incredibly complex trans and infrastructure point of attention. Second, is a matter of business model, because Fineco, we, we, we built that way, so we don't have the problems of cannibalizing, for example, clients.
All our clients are on the same platform, doing everything. This is the huge, is the huge difference, is the massive advantage we have.
Thank you.
The next question is from Andrea Vercellone, from BNP Exane. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon. I've got two. The first one is on personnel expenses. I wanted to know if in the cost that you have booked in the first half of the year, you have already made a degree of accrual for the banking contract, or if you haven't. The same vis-à-vis the 6% guidance in total growth in operating costs for 2023. In that number, have you left a certain amount for possible increase related to the banking contract, or that will come on top, if there is one? The second question is on Eurovita.
Now that all of the parties have agreed on what to do with it, can you confirm that you do not expect any kind of negative one-off associated to this when withdrawals are allowed from October onwards? Thank you.
t question, personal expenses, yes, there is. Our HR department is clearly they cannot put the precise numbers because nobody knows exactly which kind of hardware we can expect, but is starting on considering is, is, is increasing the expected personal cost for considering the highly, the high probability to have a change in the banking contract. So yes, we are starting on. In this guidance, we're starting on embedding an expectation of higher personal cost driven by the highly probable new banking contract. And on Eurovita, yes, we can confirm that we don't expect any significant negative one-off when the withdrawals are going to be allowed.
Thank you.
The next question is from Filippo Prini, from Kepler Cheuvreux. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon. Two question. The first one, could you give us an indication of which is the maturity of corporate government bonds that your client has bought this year, taking the liquid on the current account, and so how much of them will be, could be redeemed next year and be available for new investment? The second still written on Eurovita. Your guidance of EUR 4 billion AUM for this year and also for of EU, and also for next year, does take into account an acceleration of outflows of class one insurance product, once it could be possible to redeem product Eurovita, or do you expect that could be most of them will be absorbed by inflows from pharma? Thank you.
It depends also from the administrative point of view, what's going to happen. When we, we are going to-- the, the, the EUR 4 billion of asset under management, clearly, they are not considering fully the possible impact generated by the, by the-- an acceleration of outflow from the, from the insurance wrapper. So we, we, we will see on that, on that point. As we, we explained, this is, is completely immaterial from in terms of impact on revenues and margins. Then clearly, we-- our goal is to, is to capture the, the largest part of this, throughout our, our other solutions.
In any case, the point of attention on the insurance wrapper is not, is, is here, because it's not something that is going to start with the, with the, when, when the disinvestment by Eurovita are going to be allowed. Is that there is a structural disaffection by clients for the insurance products. It's something that we are on which we are, we are dealing with by several months. It's not, it's not going to be an, an, anything that is going to change the, the projection of our, our, our revenues and margins. The, excuse me, sorry, I jumped directly to the second question. The indication of maturity.
The, the, the largest part, so we have the clients, so the clients that are more on the investing side, that they are mostly concentrated within a 3-year, a 3-year maturity. It's clear that we going throughout the next few years, we expect a huge amount of these bonds expiring. As we many times, we, we, we explained, we think that overall it's much more an opportunity than a problem, because what is important is to keep on bringing the assets in the bank. The clients investing on the longer maturities are much more trading-driven clients.
In this case, in this case, what we can expect in the case of the beginning of a decline on yields, we can expect these clients starting on starting on selling. These clients, they tend to trade. The, the, the clients, they are most part of the traditional cash, cash sorting process are mostly concentrated within three years maturity.
Thank you.
The next question is from Adele Palama from UBS. Please go ahead.
Yes. Hi, good morning. Thank you for taking my question. I have a question on the incentive for the financial advisor. Did you change or are you planning to change the incentive based on total financial asset flows as opposed to AUM flows only? The second question is, in case of possible rate cuts, which are the levers that you have or you can put in place to protect the revenue growth? Thanks.
Regarding the incentive, the incentive scheme for financial planners, no, we, we didn't change anything. The incentive, the incentive scheme for financial planners is remaining just related to their, to their sale, to the sale of asset under management solutions. We are not planning to introduce any, any change going forward. This is what is a remarkable point of strength for the bank. We don't need to use rates for underpinning the growth of the bank. It would be easy for us to incentivize financial planners in, for example, in net sales, so also on the gathering liquidity, but we don't need to do that, and we think that it's on the long run it would be a mistake. In the case of possible rate cuts, in my opinion, it's my...
My, my suggestion is to, is to look to the full picture, not just being focused on one single piece at a time, because one, in my opinion, the biggest mistake is to just say, "Come on, rates are going down." This means that, for example, the, by definition, if rates are going, are, are going down, by definition, net financial income is going to go down as well. At the same time, with rates going down, we can expect some other kind of effects happening. Like, for example, is reasonable to expect an a big jump in the, in, for example, in the investing business.
It's, I think that the best guarantee for the market is that Fineco has an incredibly diversified business model, and we, and we have demonstrated in the past, and it's going to be the same also going forward. We are able to keep on delivering growing revenues and profits in every market conditions. Exactly for this extremely diversified business model that is ranging from transactional banking, investing, and brokerage. For this extremely diversified business model that is ranging transactional banking, investing and brokerage. And again, my suggestion is to look to the full picture, because just looking to one single piece of the story, in my opinion, is a, is a little bit misleading.
The next question is from Luigi de Bellis from Equita SIM. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon. Just one question for me on the brokerage side. More resilient than peers in the first half. What can we expect going forward in terms of new initiatives, products to maintain or speed up this outperformance? Can you elaborate on the competitive scenario for, for group brokerage and on the profile of active investors in the brokerage, if there has been a change or not in the active profile for, for the investor in, in brokerage? Thank you.
I, I'm leaving the floor to Paolo. Paolo, that is, you know very well, he is our deputy general manager, that is on the driving seat for developing the new initiatives, not just on brokerage, but also on the banking side and the onboarding side. Please, Paolo.
Yes. Hi, good afternoon. Basically, on brokerage, we will continue to target clients with, let's say, active, active, active trader clients. Basically people, they do 4-5 trades per month, and we are going to work on the easiness of the platform. We have delivered already a lot of new user experiences in the, on the site and the application, but we have a lot more coming next year. We're launching at the end of August, the brokerage-only account, so it's going to be much easier for people. They want to trade with us or invest in stocks and bonds and ETFs. You know, it's a, it's a good, it's a good development also for, for young, the younger, the younger people, they want to invest.
Basically, this is the idea. We, we will continue to do some marketing on that, leveraging on pricing, best in class. We're going to use a lot the Govies attention to gather new clients. They are going to use the platform for Govies. I just want to remind you that we are the best platform in Italy if you want to buy Govies, and for us, it's a fantastic entry product. People, they start using Govies, and then they, they use other products, and they trade stocks, and, of course, they eventually link with the, with the financial planner. This is pretty much the main thing we are working on.
Thank you.
The next question is a follow-up from Enrico Bolzoni, from JPMorgan. Please go ahead.
Yes, sorry. Very quickly, can you tell us what's the total customer number at the end of July?
The total number is...
It's around EUR 1.5 million. EUR 1,500,000.
No, the precise number is?
I, I just wanted to, the net, either the net customer, just to, to see how many customer you onboarded. I know it's probably an estimate by now, but yeah.
The net, which is the, the, the, the gross, new clients and the net, please.
Sorry. Gross, EUR 88,500.
Eight, EUR 8,500. EUR 8,500, okay.
In July.
The stock at the end?
July. In July.
The, the gross.
Yeah.
The stock is EUR 1,500,029.
Okay. Thank you.
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Thank you very much for all of you atten-.