Good afternoon. This is the protocol operator. Welcome to IGD's conference call presenting full year 2024 results. Let me remind you that all participants are in listen-only mode. After the presentation, a Q&A session will be held. To be assisted by an operator during the conference call, press star and zero on your phone. We now turn the conference over to Mr. Roberto Zoia, CEO of IGD. Sir, you have the floor.
Welcome to all of you. Good afternoon. Despite the webinar being very, very nice, let me still share my optimism with you because the results we will be disclosing to you, I hope, and I'm sure they are in line with what we promised in 2024. Even though we still have a long way to go, let me say that the results we achieved, I must say I'm proud to present those results to you.
Let's follow the presentation. As you can see on page three, we have all numbers that are a positive sign, a plus sign before them, both tenant sales and malls and hypermarkets. They are all growing, and all footfalls are also growing. Shopping malls and retailers are doing well so far. Also, provided as a figure by the collection rate in 2024, 98.4% for Italy and 97% for Romania, so it's definitely a positive one. If we move to page four, we see our result. We see our financial highlights. We have upsides from either renewals or remarketing, up 4%. The upside is up 4%, and Romania is up 3.8%. Occupancy went up too, and our WAULT went up too. It is weighted average lease break.
Ever since the first call I had with you, I had already announced that it's one of the indicators we were going to work on. Here again, looking at single quarters, both upsides, occupancy, and the extension of our contract duration and of WAULT weighted average lease break, they're all growing. We are fully in line with the guidance we had provided to you when we disclosed our business plan in November last year. Core business, both on tenant side and contract side, is definitely positive. Net rental income on a like-for-like basis is up to 4.6%. Also, core business EBITDA is up 4.1%. Here we have the first novelty compared to what we normally disclosed in the past.
This is the result of the work we made on our core business because you'll see that on the finance side of the business, there are also some weaknesses to be recorded. We've given you a EUR 34 million guidance. We are closing with FFOs landing at EUR 35.6 million, which is almost 5% more than the guidance we had given the market. That, of course, is thanks to the results we achieved in our core business. If we look at the market from a general perspective, we're on page six of the presentation, about beyond fluctuations when it comes to BTPs or GOVTs. Retail versus other asset classes, retail real estate is still the one with the best or highest yield. We've proven over the years that the Italian market has been stable, has been consistent. Also, consistency occupancy-wise has been consistent.
This year, we're starting to see very interesting growth coming up. Retail, transactions for retail were about EUR 3 billion. It was the number one asset class, more than offices and logistics. We haven't had that kind of figure for many years now. The result, you see, meaning our portfolio, our core portfolio, hypermarkets and supermarkets in Italy, but also valuation-wise, is flat. Why is that? Because there were, until the end of last year, 2024, no yield compressions. It's flat because it's standing its ground thanks to the way we managed our assets and thanks to, of course, the increase in net rental income and fees. Page eight, we reconfirm our guidance, 44.4% LTV. A year ago, it was one of our attention points.
After the disposal we completed in April 2024, we had a benefit of 370 basis points versus 2023. Eventually, last but not least, as promised, I remember the first call we had together, the first quarterly report in May 2024. I have said that it was my personal mission and the mission that I was addressed with by the board of directors. The board of directors that appointed me, the mission was to go back to pay out dividends. For us, as being a retail SIIQ, this is something we have to try and pay out. It is a limited dividend payout. I believe that, and I am confident that our shareholders should see dividend visibility in the medium and long term, but I am talking about sustainable dividend distribution and in line with the share price as well.
I am very pleased to be able to say that the board of directors resolved upon submitting to the AGM a point, a EUR 0.10 dividend per share payout. As we went through a year of major changes, the result is what I've just announced. In April, we had a new governance put in place. We disposed of our food portfolio, and it was a preliminary transaction to refinance our debt that we just completed, the presentation of our guidelines and of our business plan. I'll tell you more about it in a minute. The growth in revenues, footfalls, and in the upside coming from renewals are the offsprings, are the outcome of a very strong, very hard work, leasing activity.
In this company, we try and capture anchor tenants that can help and support the performance of all of our shopping malls and shopping centers. Here are some examples. Thirty-one new brands were added, and that means a very, very intense scouting work that we have performed. We really captured brands and tenants that are of major importance, of paramount importance to support footfalls and revenues. We worked a lot, and we were very committed to digital innovation. I believe there's no clear-cut separation between physical trade and digital trade. Everything is omnichannel. We've invested a lot in digital solutions. We have seven apps that were made available in our shopping malls. Week after week, they are contributing and helping us to profile our customers and therefore being able to provide them with the best and best-suited propositions.
It was a very, very interesting activity appreciated by retailers. They are increasing the potential of these apps. They give us exclusive products that will only be given, exclusively be given to the clients of our shopping centers. We have, of course, worked on tenant platforms providing digital solutions. There is a proprietary application for the shopping mall antennas to really exchange data, data about turnover and other types of data so that data can be easily tracked on our side, ensuring us a much better visibility than we had in the past. Mall media is very much appreciated by our tenants. We have digital totems, and we enable them to propose product promotions. This becomes a revenue source, just like the physical kiosks that you have in shopping malls such as specialty leasings.
Therefore, they can enhance income through media retail. Let's now move on to page 14. It's very interesting to see the work we did on our like-for-like portfolio, where we actually started in 2023 with EUR 119.6 million net rental income, and we lost about EUR 10.2 million over time. At year-end, we lost less than EUR 6 million. Like-for-like data, 4 point change, the delta of 4.1, thanks also to the great work we did with Romania cost-wise. Let's results. We lost EUR 10 million, but we recouped a good amount. The same applies. I'm not going to bore you with EBITDA figures, but it's the same dynamic that we have with net rental income. It was EUR 108 million, then it went down to EUR 102 million, but we got to EUR 110 million thanks to the, we lost some of it through the disposal. On page 16, we have financial management.
Transactions we embarked in in 2023, especially the bond we issued for 2023, really made our financial position a bit heavier somehow. That led to an impact on FFO. Despite the growth in our guidance, it's still affected by what I just mentioned. We'll get back to the financials. If we look at FFO on page 17, it's very interesting to see that most of the advantage comes from the core business EBITDA delta. Of course, we are penalized at EUR 13.2 million of financial debt versus 2023. The group net result, we'd already looked at it in June. The one-shot impediment we had had a strong impact that was carried out after the disposal because there was a 40% stake in the fund. We have a 40% stake in the fund that holds all these assets.
As it was a one-shot impairment, it cannot be replicated in 2025. We have the weight of financial charges. As I said before, we also have a big benefit in terms of lower write-downs, lower impairments. We start from a group net result of EUR 81.7 million. Despite the big impact of our financial position, we closed at EUR 30 million. We landed EUR 30 million, knowing that there was an impact coming from the EUR 30 million impairment, the impairment or write-down on the stake. That was a one-off, and it will not be replicated in 2025. The difference, the delta between a loss of EUR 81 million and instead a positive and profitable net result, that pathway, I think, has been laid out pretty well. Let's have a look at our net financial position.
Of course, we had our NFP net financial position improved, went to EUR 806 million thanks to the receipts from the disposals. After the refinancing, I will tell you about the duration in a minute. I will try and advance one of the questions that may be asked. After we issued the press release on our refinancing project, the idea of refinancing was to extend duration and to eliminate the cliff we had in 2027. We are confident again. It was a monthly transaction, EUR 615 million with all banks that had to find an agreement. It was a bit of a headache, but we managed. We do not yet feel or have the benefit of it all because we still have to work on it. As you can see, we have reduced our average cost of debt by 34 basis points.
Post-refinancing, we've both focused on duration, and we've started to cut the cost of debt. In order to be clearer about our figures, portfolio figures, I put this slide. I put in this slide on page 20. You see the organizational structure of our companies. The two funds, Zeus and Food Funds, who have a stake of about EUR 100 million that can be added to the freehold portfolio. We have a small company. It's living and sports facilities here in Bologna, Parco Camplus. We have IGD Service S.r.L., which right now is focusing both on services, on both freehold and leasehold assets. We have the two main states in Romania. What is left of the Livorno project, Porta Medicea, we still have eight final notary deeds for the selling of a parcel apartment and three areas that will be disposed of.
Also, to send out a signal as to the will we have to grow. We have set up in December. We have established a company called Allianz. We asked to be established as a SIIQ. It's a non-listed REIT, practically. Now it's an empty box, but we have 18 months to fill that box. That will enable us, starting from 2024, we already established an SPV that is denominated as a non-listed retail or SPV. It will be able to exploit growth opportunities. We do not have anything yet, but just to be sure, we set it up to be ready to grasp opportunities. That's why I also put it in this organizational chart. The portfolio value includes stakes, and it's EUR 1.81 billion. I gave you this organizational chart because in the next slide, where you see the portfolio market value, it's EUR 1.537 billion.
You will see again in slide 31, it's the core portfolio of shopping malls and hypermarkets. We have Romania, a few small assets in addition to the Livorno areas. We have two holdings, so two stakes, the two stakes. Unfortunately, in 2025, and it will expire in 2026, the first master lease will expire in 2026, and the other master lease will expire in 2027. The international principals will expire, and we will evaluate those two master leases. The value of those two master leases will have to be brought to zero. Every six months, we have an impairment. We have a write-down, and that has an impact on our leasehold portfolio of EUR 6.7 million because of these two master leases ending between 2026 and 2027. You will see in the annex details about these two master leases and the EPRA indicators.
We have an increase of FFO and a lower total value of assets because of write-downs or impairments. NRV lands at EUR 8.94 for full year 2024. We're still hyper-discounted versus the actual value. The board of directors approved this morning, approved our sustainability report. It's one of the levers that we really want to rely on in our day-to-day business because going forward, it will be very useful for us, not just to be sustainable and to respect the earth, but it will also lead to profitability. The main effort is to focus on reducing energy consumption. As you see, we have achieved sizable savings in energy consumption. We're working a lot with our retailers on sorted collection, waste collection. That can become another lever we can use from an economic perspective as well.
The new governance is really, we have a special committee. It is a strategy committee that will be part of the new governance, providing strategies in compliance with the CSR so that the market will become aware of how we deem sustainability very important. I have talked about the new brands. I have talked about the fact that our shopping malls are very much tied to the geography where they are based. Of course, they will generate economies of scale provided by the shopping malls to have a social impact in the geography where they are located, impact on jobs, to have an impact on the environment. We think that shopping malls are of paramount importance in really providing the best possible social impact in the local area.
Being a friend of the local area means having more loyal customers, means having customers who come and see us more often. I'm on page 25. I think 2025 started in the best possible way because it was very important to have good funding for versus the setup we had. On 11 February, we signed the Green Secured Facility Agreement. On February 14, we sold the first assets of our Romanian portfolio. As we are a listed company, the news were, of course, reported by Romanian media as well. Right now, on Romania, there's a lot. It's a very buoyant market, if you wish. If you remember, when we presented the business plan, we said EUR 20 million worth of disposals for Romania during this year, during 2025.
I think that with all the negotiations we have started, we really will be able to hit that target, the 20 million target. We have already cashed in the first transaction, and it went very well. In March, we paid existing loans with the banks, so we had agreed a differentiated drawing on February 11. We drew the first drawing of B tranche. Tranche A was drawn on the 3rd, so as to be able not to have a negative carry. On the 4th, we really repaid the two bonds that were for November 2023, bonds that had costs and constraints that were very strong for us. On page 25 now, I think I already said that the first time I talked to you. I think that 2026 and 2027, 2027 cliff was boring everyone.
The refinancing put us in a confident and comfortable place. That means we're not anxious to have to deal with maturities that are too close. At the same time, however, I have to say that we're not going to stop there. The cost part, the cost of debt part has to be addressed with other tools as well. We retain two ratings. As you said, the two ratings were confirmed. This is very important for debt capital market purposes because we will be able to address the market. It's not useful to be in the market too often, but we have to be very careful and monitor what is happening in the debt capital market.
The target of a possible transaction or deal could be aimed at cutting the cost of debt if we had to somehow reshuffle our refinancing to have just a few basis points of advantage versus the issuance. In that case, that would be quite cold versus that vis-à-vis that transactionality. If we have a strong reduction in the cost of debt, it'll be very favorable. We have an issuance at a lower cost. We free up assets with the refinancing of EUR 650 million. You're well aware of what happened with that. We restore a balance between debt towards bank and debt towards the market. This is an objective, a goal we have. Of course, we need to have the right conditions, market conditions for that to happen. I am very happy to be able to say that I really put down, broke the WAULT of 2027.
We really took it down, and I'm really happy about that. We can go to the market with a different sense. If your maturities are too close, of course, you undergo difficulties. The 2027 WAULT came down. Having said that, we want to carry on focusing on occupancy, on appetite, on WAULT, on retaining assets, and cutting costs. The guidance we feel confident to provide for 2025 is EUR 38 million FFO, up 6.7% versus full year 2024.
[E per tornare poi con un FFO un po' più generoso, è chiaro, vedremo anche dov'è il titolo a data e a quel punto si potrà fare qualche riflessione anche sul futuro dividendo, sapendo, ho già detto come la penso. Non esiste una SIIQ o un REIT senza dividendo. E quindi questo è un po' il full year.]
[Non starei a leggere gli allegati, ma ovviamente per qualsiasi domanda e approfondimento siamo qua. Vi dico che sia in chiave titolo, sia in chiave debito, lato mio e dell'investor elector, sicuramente non mancheremo a nessun appuntamento programmato per il 2025.]
We therefore, I'm always available 24 hours a day, anytime, also outside official institutional locations. Therefore, feel free to ask, and you will receive our answers. Now I leave the floor to you for any questions.
Thank you. Thank you very much. Now we will start the Q&A session. If you please want to ask a question, click on star one on your phone. Please ask your questions using your receiver. Star and one if you have a question. The first question comes from Arianna Terazzi from Intesa Sanpaolo. You have the floor.
Good afternoon, Roberto, and thank you very much for your presentation. I have a question concerning the guidance for 2025. If you can elaborate more on the implicit debt cost. Can you confirm the perimeter? Because as far as I understand, you are confident with your target through the disposal in Romania. I would like to know whether the guidance is on a like-for-like basis or not. Please can you confirm the perimeter as well?
No, Arianna. Thank you for your question. This is consistent with our business plan assumptions. On the one side, we have the disposal of some EUR 10-12 million in Romania. In that case, we would lose some net rental income, but then with growth and with less repayments as we would deduct the debt as we go along. Therefore, we will reach EUR 38 million.
It is based on the business plan, including also the disposals. In any case, the guidance today, I give this guidance today, and I have already lost about EUR 700,000 of net rental with the disposal of Food. This is the strongest assumption. As to the cost of debt, we made some forecasts in terms of revenue, sorry, of rate curves. As you know, until recently, a couple of weeks ago, the sentiment was that it would be already 50 basis points, but actually now we know it is just 25. I think that, I watched the press release, and I did not see significant answers on the part of the ECB. We expect a decline resulting from the two components. The decline of rates on the one side.
Actually, we put the little star that is no asterisk floating rate, and then we will see if we can do something better. But it's the like-for-like growth that we intend to have with our assets. We have some new initiatives in progress, and we certainly hope to achieve some more upside. Thank you.
La prossima next question is from Simonetta Chiriotti from Mediobanca.
Good morning, everyone. Good afternoon, everyone. I have a question on asset disposal. In the second half compared with the first half, did you have any changes? Did you have any major changes? Because if we look at supermarkets for full year, it seems the value is worse than what was expected in the first six months, in the first half. And also, what are expectations for 2025?
Yes, thank you for your question.
In the second half, we had no yield declines because actually the discount rate was flat, the net exit rate was flat too. Actually, you noticed for hypermarkets, in particularly the one in Naples, we had a reduction. We had a decline. This was because of a perimeter reduction because we opened it on Saturday, and we did not make a clear distinction between the situation, like-for-like situation, because actually this hypermarket lost value, but this was offset by the increase in value of the mall. As far as rates are concerned, the assessment of the experts was not particularly aggressive. Actually, our average discount rate went down by less than five basis points, considering the full portfolio, and also the net exit went up two basis points.
What I expect, and I have to say that also with the auditors in the calls we had with the auditors because they wanted to have visibility about everything, we had finally there was some optimistic sign that these yields could go down. [Sì, Marco]. It depends on the estimate. The next one is in June, and so the assessment, the appraisal would be done in May. Perhaps let me say it once again. The fact we had EUR 3 billion of transactions is the first message. I remember 2014, 2010, and also previous years when first we have the volumes with some opportunistic transactions, and then this is followed by the yields. It is important that we had some transactions that were also of core tenants, like I feel took Milan and Palermo.
I think that, and then I hear that every day, I think that there is quite a lot of serious appetite in the retail sector for the retail sector because we have to be honest. Over the last four years, we've had all sorts of things. We have COVID, we had hyperinflation, and so on and so forth. We hold pretty well. The true element to be monitored is consumption, consumption trends. As far as consumption is concerned, the situation is still unclear. If we look at some commodities or some products, especially personal care products and also jewelry, fragrances, they have very interesting results. As far as restaurants, that's also interesting too. Clothing is holding well. Therefore, I hope that the first six months of 2025 will bring some good signs.
I don't expect great results, but about EUR 1 billion, 800 million for us. Also 25 and 30 points of decompression of one of the two rates. That could be definitely a benefit.
[Mercato più liquido. L'operatività di questa società che.]
If I may ask a question in this more liquid market, this company that you set up, this vehicle you set up, when do you think it will start really operating? Will it start soon, or could you elaborate on this project and how it could be used, how this vehicle could be used?
Thank you, Simonetta.
Let's spend a minute to tell you what we mean by S IIQ is non-listed REIT practically. Of course, in compliance with the law, the law was amended three years ago.
In the past, you could have a retail company; you could have this SIIQ company if it was held by, well, 95% was held by a SIIQ . Now it is a different amount. It has to be controlled by a SIIQ by 51%, but the 49% partner can benefit from the same SIIQ regime, SIINQ, and there too there are dividend payout duties, but the taxation is levied on dividend and not on the company. Why did I set up this SIIQ vehicle? Because, as I said, it could be an aggregative box somehow. What do we mean? If we have, imagine, portfolios, if we see portfolios that are out there in SRLs or in funds that are about to be closed, if you contribute the portfolio to a company in a SIIQ, the contributor could have benefits.
It is an aggregative type of deal because IGD, in addition to its own assets, will have assets contributed by a third party. The SIIQ will increase enough and provided the portfolio, the contributed portfolio will go to the benefit of the contributor. As I said at the beginning, we told you about this SIINQ vehicle, SIINQ, and according to the law, there are 18 months. You have 18 months to actually fill that box with content. Should we not do anything within 18 months, it will stay a box as it is, a vehicle as it is. I am very fast. I am a fast mover. Maybe in 18 months, over these 18 months, we will get a nice opportunity to grasp. There is a will, and it was reinforced by the board this morning. There is a will by IGD to go back to growing.
As I said, let me reiterate it, this morning the board really stressed the fact that we want to grow. This SIIQ is an opportunity. There is nothing in it now, but today I would like to really stress the fact that we are looking forward, looking ahead. We set up a company. We defined a regime for it, and it is a good opportunity. In other European countries, it is a tool that is used very often because it enables those who have regimes with a different tax regime to contribute them into the SPV and benefit from this tax regime that I have just mentioned that is advantageous for the contributor, beneficial for the contributor. Thank you very much.
The next question comes from the line of Francesco Sala with Banca Akros.
Good afternoon to all of you. Thank you for the presentation. I have two, three questions.
First one is on the performance for the first two, three weeks of the year. What have you seen for shopping malls? How are tenant sales faring for the first few months of 2025? CapEx plan for 2025. Ever since the year started, can you reconfirm the guidance you gave in your business plan? One more thing about tenants. What is the response you've had in terms of renegotiating rents? What do you see when you interact with tenants? Thank you.
Thank you very much for your questions. Let me try and answer them in the right order. Both January and February basically showed the same performance we had last year, same trend we had last year. If I'm going to be really precise, 2024 Q1, we did not perform really well, all too well.
We are slightly better than Q1 2024, so we're still seeing this improving trend. Last year, if you remember, both footfalls and revenues, we started seeing results starting from Q2. Given what we saw in January and February, we're in line with that trend, with that performance. Finally, we no longer have the weight of inflation, what we had to do, we have done. When faced with new openings or maturities that are very close, sometimes with the tenants, we say, "Let's extend the contract by three years, but without break option." Maybe we have a first proposal with a 10% discount that I then recover over time. From a product category viewpoint, you also mentioned what kind of product categories. Personal care was good. Very interesting is that we have some leasing and renting on maybe non-valuable areas. Low-cost gyms are being introduced everywhere.
That's good. There are some categories, product categories that we call footfall-oriented, for instance, Action, the brand Action. In the past, they used to go to small, isolated retail parts. There was a discount may to transact Quest [or partner in] selling personal care products. Today, they want to enter shopping malls as well. When they open, the amount, the footfall they generate is really incredible. From this perspective, on Tuesday morning, I met with OVS, and we have a lot of stores with them. I told them, "Well, finally, we meet at a time of peace." It was a very pleasant meeting. We did not have to have a bargaining or strong negotiation with them. They are a strong customer, but I was very happy the way the meeting went with them. It's clear that we have to work hard.
They liked the digital ideas, the ideas of co-marketing we can do together. What we told them and what we told other big chains is not so much saving on cost, but spending better from a marketing perspective. It's useless to have marketing for one marketing for a shopping mall and another marketing strategy for the 100 different stores I have in the shopping mall. If we join forces and work in a more structured way, maybe we can do well. Today, we opened some very good channels as far as common activities that concern OVS, Tebie, Kiko. It's hard work indeed, and our teams are working with their teams, and they meet very often. What I'm seeing is that we're building a new landlord-tenant relationship, and that will indeed lead to results, meaning lower costs, but also improved performance. Today, now, retail is faring well.
I'm just talking to all these chains that come from Eastern European countries, Sinsay, Pepco, for instance, and they are really helping us improving our occupancy levels because they are very aggressive in their policies and the way they address the market. For restaurants and catering today, the funds are acquiring a lot of stakes in the restoration and catering restaurants and catering chains. This is very helpful for us. We have to wait and see. A selection will have to be made eventually. If you went to the special media, ARC, CGR yesterday, we heard the news. They will do a lot of development in that respect. For our clients, for our tenants, it's very good to have that kind of deployment in the shopping malls.
Retailers are also trying to find investors who are willing to strengthen the supply chain and really enhance it. That is really helpful to develop footfalls in our malls. Let me remind you that if you want to ask a question, you may press star and one on your phone. Next question comes from Giuseppe Grimaldi . Good afternoon to all of you. Thank you very much for your presentation. I have a very quick question from an operating viewpoint. This year, are you going to replicate the same net rental income you generated last year? Maybe a single-digit growth, mid-single-digit growth as you did in 2004. To what extent is that driven by occupancy or driven by net discount and maybe an indexation trend? Inflation indexation trend. Yes, you were right. Those were the two factors with BNP Paribas .
On like-for-like, we expect to be up 4%, and then we want to fill in spaces. We want to increase occupancy because, of course, that generates a double benefit. You get rent on the one hand, and you have less expenses for unrented spaces. In the EUR 38 million FFO guidance we provided, I think it's a good mix. We have occupancy upside and reduction, cost of debt reduction. Of course, sorry, not maybe, we could lose revenues through disposal. Disposing of assets to improve our debt, our NFP is also important. Also, out of respect for all the funding banks, for all the banks in the pool, what we get, it's also used to repay. In the previous question, I forgot about CapEx plans. Last year, we had a slowed down on the CapEx side.
Right now, we are only investing for sales purposes, for commercial purposes, and to, for instance, improve efficiency. It could be either equipment or photovoltaic systems. For on the remodeling side, we are trying to be cautious because every morning when we get up, there is a novelty to address. We try and be conservative. I cannot give you the exact impact, but generally speaking, we should be below the EUR 23 million we included in our business plan. Thank you very much. One more clarification on the guidance you gave. The EUR 38 million FFO, do they include the negative component you expect to have from the disposals you will be completing this year? Yes, exactly. It does include that. More than this, I do not know what to do to make you happy. I look at the share price that it is not really going up.
Giuseppe, yes, you are right. The EUR 38 million FFO also embeds, in addition to the EUR 700,000 we lost since 2014, we also embedded EUR 10-12 million worth of disposals, which means also a decline in net rental income. Thank you very much, Roberto. You were very clear. Also bear in mind that for 2025, the first quarter still included our, we still have the disposed portfolio. When we come up with the first quarter report with Q1, you still see a minus sign because it is about EUR 10 million, roughly EUR 10 million over three quarters of Q1 2025. We will still have a comparison with 2024 with food portfolio.
Thank you very much. Thank you, Roberto. Very kind of you.
For further questions, press star followed by one on your phone.
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Mr.
Zoia, for the time being, there are no more questions in the queue.
Very well. Thank you very much to all of you and see you next time. Thank you.
The call is still operated. The conference call has come to an end. You may disconnect your phones. Thank you very much.