Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the conference call on the results for CIE Automotive in 2022. Jesús María Herrera, CEO and Lorea Aristizabal, Director of Corporate Development will be with us. At the end of the presentation, there'll be a Q&A. I'd like to remind you the questions can only be asked in writing through the tool provided on the webcast. Now I hand over to Lorea, your head, please.
Very good morning, everyone, and welcome to the conference call for the results of the fourth quarter. We can start by beginning the main events during this fourth quarter in each market. We'll start talking about Europe. During 2023, the European market has grown by a significant 13% due to two main factors. On the one hand, a very undemanding and comparable base, where the year 2022 that was still at -26% versus the pre-pandemic. And on the other hand, the damned demand, basically in the fleet segment, a segment which in Europe carries a weight of approximately 50% of the market. In 2023, all the quarters have grown significantly. This last fourth quarter has grown by 7%, the same as the third quarter, below the two first quarters that showed high double-digit growth. Three main headlines in Europe.
One of the issues that has covered most headlines in these months has been the cooling off in the demand for the electric vehicle, a reality with more or less significant impacts on the production planning of many Tier 1 and OEMs, and something that has produced a communicating vessels effect in relation to the production of combustion engine vehicles with total productions that have had a very good performance. Another big issue on the front pages during 2023 has been the thrust of the Chinese OEMs that are gaining market share from the incumbent OEMs. BYD, MG from the SAIC group, and Geely have been some of the names that have stood out.
In response to the entry of the Chinese OEMs, European manufacturers are trying to protect their market shares with electric vehicles at lower prices and with strategic alliances such as the agreement between Stellantis and the Chinese company Leapmotor. One of the first consequences of this new scenario is that for the first time in 2023, European exports have been on the same level as imports, when there had always been a vehicle trade surplus in Europe. The fact of this trade continues f or 2023-2026, it is expected that there will be a trade deficit of around 1 million cars. And the third European headline regarding the news about suppliers, the focus is on their inevitable consolidation process. Two main variables are on the table.
Firstly, the enormous existing surplus capacity with a market size to produce 27 million cars, but which is stabilizing at around 17 million vehicles, which means a utilized capacity of only 60%. And secondly, the lack of profitability of suppliers, with over 50% of the suppliers operating below 5% EBIT according to CLEPA data. A reflection of this complicated situation is the chain of [f oreign language] t hat we've seen from Schaeffler, Continental, Bosch, ZF, or more recently FORVIA.
If we talk about the United States, a fourth quarter where, unlike previous quarters, the market has been flat with the impact of the strike of the UAW. In the total for 2023, a US market that has grown 6% based mostly on the gradual replacement of stock and on a strong demand with incentive levels from the OEMs that are still 35% below pre-pandemic levels. As we saw in Europe, also in the United States, there's talk about the slowdown in the demand for electric vehicles, and this communicating vessel effect has occurred with the internal combustion vehicles, which has generated a good performance in total vehicle production. Moreover, the context is that the number of electric models in the US that are eligible for tax deductions was reduced after the last legislative update.
Therefore, the OEMs are now working to adjust their supply chains, with the aim of their cars becoming eligible for the green vehicle credit. In parallel, we have Mexico, the Mexican automotive industry, that has proved to be very dynamic during the fourth quarter, as indicated by the IHS Production Data, with an increase of 17% in production, a very similar figure to the 15% in market growth for 2023 overall. The domestic market is still solid, backed by favorable perspectives regarding family income, a solid labor market, and an increase in real wages. On the other hand, sector exports that consolidate its relevance for the Mexican economy, exports that increased by 15% year to 2023, the biggest growth in the last six years, and which represents approximately 85% of the Mexican production.
Talking about the Chinese market, the headline is that this fourth quarter has been the best quarter in its history, with 8.8 million vehicles produced, beating the previous record in the fourth quarter of 2017. Production in the fourth quarter has grown by 21%, contributing to a 2023 of +10%. A strong growth in production that is explained both by the pull of exports and by domestic consumption. Regarding exports, in 2023, China has become the biggest car exporter worldwide, almost 5 million vehicles exported, overtaking the traditional great exporting powers like Japan with approximately 4 million vehicles, or Germany with approximately 3 million vehicles exported last year. Also, as a figure, almost a third of the vehicles exported by China are electric.
Regarding the Chinese domestic market, it has been particularly strong since the month of September and continues to stand out for the continuous pull of the electric vehicle, helped with the strong promotions launched by the OEMs. The Chinese government itself recognizes two important problems in the automotive industry: the surplus capacity with barely 60% of the capacity being utilized, and the current price war in the Chinese market. Therefore, the government has undertaken and I quote, "to take strong measures to prevent superfluous projects." Around 200 electric vehicle manufacturers are currently operating in China, including small regional manufacturers with very low technology and with production volumes of barely some tens of thousands of cars. And therefore, many analysts expect a major wave of bankruptcies and a significant consolidation of the sector in the coming years that we'll need to monitor.
Talking about India, the Indian light vehicle market has grown by 5% in the fourth quarter and accumulates an annual increase of 6%. Since in India, the passenger vehicle represents 50% of our sales and that we are exposed to other market segments, we're also going to talk about its performance. The motorbike segment, which is approximately 20% of our sales, has grown by 4% in this 2023. The truck segment, 10% of our sales, has been practically flat, and the tractor segment, which is another 20% of our sales, has dropped by 2%. So, developments, that are very different, in the various segments during this year. India like China, has this double driver of its domestic market and being considered, growing export hub. When we talk about the Indian domestic market, it's worthwhile regarding its magnitude and relevance in the world.
India is the biggest motorbike market in the world with 18 million units sold. India is the biggest tractor market in the world with approximately 1 million tractors sold. India is the third biggest market in the world in the sale of light passenger vehicles with more than 4 million units sold. India is the third biggest market in the world in trade vehicles with approximately 1 million units sold. If to all this we add that it's a market that recently is producing to export and is exporting approximately 3.5 million motorbikes and 700,000 cars to the rest of the world. We also highlight not just the strength of the Indian market in terms of volume and dimension, but also an Indian market that is looking for new, more advanced characteristics and extras in its vehicles.
For example, a growing demand for roof systems in the country, where 25% of the cars sold in 2023 were equipped with roof systems, compared to 7% 5 years ago. We move to Brazil. The last quarter showed a shrinkage of 4% in production. The closing of 2023 shows an increase of 1%, and we have seen a Brazilian market favored by 2 macroeconomic facts. Firstly, a lower unemployment rate, which has gone from 11% at the end of 2022 to a current level of 8%, and on the other hand, a drop in interest rates, from approximately 14% to the current 11%, something that is very favorable in a market where more than half of the vehicle purchases are financed.
With this review of the geographies, we've seen a global automotive market that continues to show a recovery and growth, which has been translated into a global increase in production of almost 10% with a strong growth in all quarters during the year. We're now going to review the evolution of CIE in this context, starting with the magnitude related to the P&L. First of all, I'd like to remind you that during this fourth quarter, specifically in October, we have closed the sale of our German forge business. Sales in 2023, which at an equal exchange rate and eliminating the negative effect of the pass-through because of the drop in prices in materials, we have grown globally in sales at a rate similar to that of the market. But it's true that we've had a 2023 that was characterized by two different situations in terms of market outperformance.
On the one hand, markets like India, Brazil, or North America, healthy markets with good growth prospects where we've significantly outperformed. And on the other hand, markets like Europe and China, which we can qualify as highly stressed markets, markets on the one hand with a significant overcapacity and secondly, markets with a price war, markets where our strategy is to preserve profitability in spite of the volume or a potential underperformance. In any case, we feel that the situation in these two markets is non-sustainable. It's circumstantial. And in any case, at the end of 2023, after the first three years of the strategic plan, we have met 75% of our ambitious outperformance goal.
We focus on profitability with an EBITDA that for the first time has surpassed the barrier of EUR 700 million, reaching EUR 713 million, an increase of 13% in spite of the negative impact of the exchange rate, an EBITDA that implies a margin over sales of 18% and a strong expansion compared to last year's margin, highlighting that EBITDA expands practically in all geographies and also grows in absolute value. As occurred with the outperformance, we are barely halfway through the strategic plan, and we have already met 75% of our goal to expand EBITDA margin over sales.
To this, we add in terms of net profit, we've grown by 7%, which is a tremendous merit if we bear in mind that our financial expenses have tripled compared to the previous year with EUR 60 million in additional financial expenses, and that the exchange rate has had a negative impact and has drained our net result. In other words, our operating management has more than offset the increase in non-operating expenses, non-operating expenses, that we also manage as far as possible, as shown for example, by the fact that we have continued to increase the percentage of debt at a fixed rate, which is now approximately 55%, and this partially buffers the impact of the increase in interest rates.
We'll now move on to analyze the cash flow, and we have achieved an EBITDA conversion into operating cash of 63% in the fourth quarter and 65% for the year 2023, a year during which we have generated EUR 450 million in operating cash flow, which means reaching 80% of the goal in the strategic plan of reaching EUR 500 million in 2025, a free cash flow that has been slightly under EUR 300 million, and discounting M&A plus dividends, we have achieved a debt reduction of more than EUR 150 million in the year overall, which implies a closing 2023 with a debt level below 1.6 times net financial debt EBITDA. One more year, we have deleveraged between 0.4 and 0.5 times net financial debt EBITDA. In other words, an extremely high capacity for generation and deleveraging, which is absolutely unusual in the sector.
Looking forward, in a sector where there are still many uncertainties that hover over the sector of various characteristics, macroeconomic, geopolitical, and we're going to review some of the key aspects of the industry in the future. Europe, now that the demand has been practically met and that inventories are normalized, the main catalyst for the future of the European market is the renewal of the vehicle population, which has an average age of 12 years. Record level. The incentives that still exist for the purchasing vehicles and the possible price reduction should help during this replacement phase. Even so, -3% is expected for Europe in 2024, and on a more medium- and long-term, a growth of barely 1%, average per year is expected, with 27 million vehicles produced and not recovering the pre-COVID levels.
A future when one of the keys will be the Chinese OEMs making their own production plant implementations in the European market and generating major business opportunities for suppliers in the region. North America, with very favorable dynamics, has grown strongly in 2023, is expected to continue to grow in 2024, although at the usual rate of 1%. In North America, the United States is expected to grow more strongly in the short term more than Mexico, driven by the inventories that are 35% below historical levels and the possible reduction in interest rates. However, Mexico is expected to have, in the short term, a year 2024 without significant changes with a +1%, a certain political uncertainty that may be generated with the election situation, although the polls talk about a continuation.
But with a growth in the North American market and especially in the Mexican market benefiting from its condition of best cost country and the trend of nearshoring and friendshoring. China, the macro trend which weighs on the Chinese market without a doubt with a strong growth in 2023 makes it foreseeable that growth will be less in 2024. Inventories that are still below the historical levels, it's estimated that there will be a growth of 2% for 2024, which is normalized as well as growth in the medium and long term. India that will continue to grow after several years extremely strong growth with a 2024 at more normal rates around 3%. But many sustainable growth drivers, as you know, including the low rate of vehicle ownership and therefore a growth in the medium and long term with an average of 5%.
Brazil, a trend to lower interest rates, announcements for capacity and production increases at various OEMs like BMW, Volkswagen, Renault, BYD, and this means that the market will continue to grow and will gradually come closer to pre-COVID levels, a year 2024 with +3%, with inventories that are still 40% below historical levels, which means that the medium and long-term growth shows an average of 7% year-over-year. An estimate of the global market flat for 2024 with a very different snapshot depending on which market we're talking about, with very different performances. But it's important to underline that the IHS forecasts are still cautious in comparison with the forecasts of other analysts in the sector that talk about up to 2% to 3% for 2024 with the main differences in Europe and China.
In the medium and long term, an average growth of 2% is expected, normalizing the situation in the automotive sector with a record level of 95 million vehicles that will be recovered in 2028, but with very different geographic contributions. Regarding the future at CIE, we confirm once again our 2025 commitments, a reconfirmation that may sound repetitive, but it has to be underlined. The strategic plan was prepared at the end of 2020 with a five-year horizon where today it's estimated that 25 million vehicles less will be produced under the plan. Nobody then knew what a semiconductor was, nobody could guess the war in Ukraine, and nobody knew about the increase in raw material prices, energy, the cost of transportation, or inflation in general. The interest rate has gone up by more than 400 points, so the context surrounding the strategic plan has undergone an absolutely radical change.
Even so, we reconfirm our ambition and our guidance for 2025. With this, we end the call. We're going to give you a one-minute video summary of 2023 so that we'll all remember what this year has been. After that, we'll move on to the questions for Jesús María and myself. Thank you very much.
Hello, again. Well, we've moved on to the questions. As usual, we'll group them together because there are a lot of questions, and many of them are on the same subject. Starting with the top nine, ask for an explanation on the difference, evolution of the outperformance/underperformance by geographies and quarters. What are the keys to understand that different evolution by geography and by quarters in 2023?
Good morning, everyone. I think that the comparison with the market cannot be made on a single quarter. You need to analyze the whole year. Looking at the whole year, what we find is that bearing in mind the same exchange rate and the negative pass-through, in the end this year, we've obtained a growth that's similar to the market, a growth of nine points, both for the market and us, with a few decimals difference that isn't important. I say it isn't important because the negative pass-through is difficult to calculate exactly, and that's why we feel that this year we've grown at the same rate as the market. So I wouldn't talk about underperformance at all.
And regarding the markets, well, you know that we focus on those markets that are going to grow the most in the short and medium term, and these are the markets where we beat the rest of the market by far. And going into the P&L,
What is the general impact of the strike in the U.S. on sales and results for CIE?
Well, the impact so far in 2023 has been very small. Therefore, there's nothing to be said. But there could be two phenomena, one positive and another one negative, let's say. But we hope that the scales will tip in our favor, of course. On the one hand, the trade union agreements reached in the United States could mean that some of the projects launched in Mexico will be transferred to the United States, so there we could have a slight loss.
But on the other hand, we have to consider that the U.S. today is losing competitiveness in relation to Mexico, so the transfer of the supply chain from Mexico or from the United States to Mexico, like from Asia to Mexico, is going to be quicker. Therefore, CIE is focusing many of its investments in Mexico. CIE is building new companies, especially in the north, that don't go directly to the Mexican market but to the American market, where logistics are very favorable.
Could you explain the evolution in margins by geography in the fourth quarter? Most of the questions are focused on India and Brazil. Well, as I said earlier, focusing on a single quarter, I want to make it clear that the results we report for 2023 for all the geographies are the recurrent results we have in all geographies.
In certain quarters, the margin may be more positive, like this quarter in India, or more negative as in this quarter in Brazil. But we shouldn't take that quarter in particular. We should look at the whole year. And for the whole year, what's obvious is that we've improved margins a great deal in all geographic areas, and the result of all this is an EBITDA of 80% over sales, which I think is a highly valuable EBITDA for our company.
And in fact, there was a more concrete question linked to the pass-through issue in the first question: What is the actual margin growth that 80% bearing in mind the pass-through?
Well, that's very easy to read. In 2022, and we mentioned it, we had 5 positive points in growth in sales because of the pass-through, because of the increase in raw materials that represented the loss of 1 point in EBITDA. In a way, without pass-through, it was 17.5, and with the pass-through, it became 16.5. Of this, we've recovered approximately half with a negative pass-through, so that 16.5 from last year becomes 17%. If our result has been 18%, more or less, we've improved our EBITDA by 1 point during the whole year. As I said before, it improves in all geographic areas. More related to the non-operating accounts, why have financial expenses gone up so much, and what can we expect in the future? Well, they've gone up so much. I don't know whether they've gone up that much.
They've gone up, well, the interest rates have gone up by 400 basis points, which, with the debt we have, makes it what it is. We have very little margin. It's true that the forecast is that it's going to drop. The EURIBOR is dropping, and a drop in interest rates is expected for the coming months. That, well, obviously, help to continue to increase our net profit.
But I think that the most important thing to be highlighted is that those EUR 60 million more in financial expenses we've had this year have been offset by production improvements in our EBITDA of over EUR 80 million, which has provided us EUR 20 million growth in the bottom line. It's been a magnificent year, a magnificent year, once again, which gives us confidence that our ambition, our management model, and our culture is the right one to be successful in this sector.
There are some questions related to cash flow. The first, the investment of almost EUR 50 million in working capital. Other years, we haven't invested that much, or it hasn't been so relevant. What has affected this figure this year? Well, we have to bear in mind that we grow in sales figures year by year. And when you increase sales, you increase investments in fixed assets and working capital. And our aim is to maintain the same percentage over year over sales, year by year. And we're being successful, even though the investment may be a little bit more, a little bit less, but nothing worrying.
This year, it's been a year of success in our company because of the major reduction in inventories, with a lot of work being done at each one of the 110 companies we have over the world. Continuing with the cash flow, this is a question related to CAPEX and the conversion of operating cash flow in the fourth quarter, which has been 63.5%, and the CAPEX growth has been higher. What is the recurrent figure in the future regarding CAPEX and operating cash flow, the conversion ratio?
Well, we also mentioned it earlier. The goal was 65%, which we've achieved these three years. And this year, with those EUR 60 million more in financial expenses, too, so a little more has to be said. That 65% would come close to 70% if the interest rates had been what they were two or three years ago. So, we continue with all the guidance with that goal of 65% because, again, the improvement we're having is greater than expected. Yes, because, Juan, I think you were asking about CAPEX, too, that has been a little bit higher in the last quarter. But life is not linear. Life is not linear, and there's an investment schedule.
And the total for the year is 5 point something percent over sales, which is where we are, and we maintain the guidance of approximately EUR 1 billion in CAPEX for the total of the five years. So it doesn't mean that there's a change in trend or anything.
Yes, and we also have to understand that the guidance, which we're prepared at the end of 2020 with certain variables, the variables have changed significantly, and yet our guidance doesn't change. And we're going to meet all of them during this period up to 2025. Looking at the future at 2024 and starting with sales, they ask, do we expect to grow in 2024, and will this growth be an outperformance versus the market? The fact is that we expect there will be no more pass-throughs of any kind. And what we're seeing now, and we've just finished the first month of the year, but yes, we're seeing a significant outperformance for this year. I think that from the first quarter, we're going to have an outperformance that will be recurrent during the rest of the quarters.
And we're also asked about the expansion of margins in a more complicated macro environment. How much should we expect our margins to increase if they do?
Well, those that have been following the company in recent years, CIE is improving its margins every year, more or less, except this year where the improvement has been enormous. But the improvement has been EUR 50 million in EBITDA year after year without the market improving. And these improvements have meant that we are improving EBITDA by about half a point a year. And this is what you can expect for this year: an improvement in growth, an improvement in margins, and with this, an improvement in our net profit once again. So the summary is that year after year, we're setting historical records. We've done it in 2023, and you can expect the same for 2024. And asking about the underperformance in China, what are we doing to correct it?
Is the price pressure being passed on to the chain, to the suppliers, and is it that way it's more difficult to correct this underperformance, or how are we managing underperformance in China? Well, during the various calls, we've said that the local Chinese customers are taking on a very significant market share at a very low price. We have a star product, and obviously can't be sold at that price level. In the continuous defense of margins, and you can see that the margins in China are very important, sometimes we have to say no, and sometimes we have to lose a bit of market share because again, what's important to CIE is profitability and to continue to generate cash and not get into competition, for products, with very low margins, and I would say in many cases negative margins.
And that's why many component suppliers in China are closing. They're shutting down. So it's a niche we're not interested in. And I said at the last call that we're trying to make some products that are less brilliant than the ones we make to make them more competitive. But we haven't got into that niche in a significant way yet. As I said, it's not very interesting, but we're looking at it and developing it. But to supplement, it's a bit complicated, a market that's constantly evolving, like the Chinese market.
To give you some idea, the discounts in industry in the price war is brutal. The average market discount has gone from approximately 10% last year, 10% of the value of the vehicle, to almost 20%. It's doubled. And Jesús María was saying that suppliers are vanishing and OEMs are vanishing. We've seen at least four bankruptcies this case: Aiways, Weltmeister, Enovate, Letin. In other words, we're seeing a changing world. We're seeing players like BYD take on large market shares. They've gone from nothing to 13% total market share and 35% in the electric sector. But others are having a very difficult time, like NIO, that hasn't reached bankruptcy but has major losses and is talking about cutting down thousands of jobs.
So it's a context that changes significantly, and we have to continue to monitor it to see what effect it has on OEMs and suppliers. Jesús María said we'll have to monitor it. And we're asked, Chinese outside China, in other words, in Europe, is it a threat or an opportunity? And are there any breakthroughs in the negotiations with BYD in Brazil or in other geographies with BYD?
Well, the Chinese, if they come to produce in Europe, which seems is going to be the trend because I don't think there's a very clear future for exports from China, the European Union as of 2026 is going to set up a sort of duty for CO2 emissions in the production of cars. So the only way will be to produce here. And if they produce here, obviously it will be an opportunity. And BYD in Brazil, you know they bought the plant in Bahia. You know that we're the only plant that's still standing there in Camaçari.
And it's true that we're the company that is currently negotiating directly for different technologies for the three cars they want to produce and also for the battery plant they want to set up. So we're in a very good position. There have been a number of meetings, but we haven't closed any agreements yet.
And regarding 2024, and the Chinese that are highly connected to the electric car, do you see a slowdown in electrification in the various markets?
It's not that we're saying it. Our customers say the OEMs, when they themselves are delaying launchings, and we're suffering that. They're delaying volumes that we're also suffering, and they're reducing their investments. And Brussels says it too when they're considering changing the law that forbids Mustang engine cars in 2035. So yes, there's a slowdown. And they also asked to close the chapter for 2024. What do we think about the consensus on this? Well, that's the consensus I've just mentioned. In the Blumen consensus, they refer to an improvement of approximately EUR 50 million a bit year after year. That's our target.
So I think it's perfect. That's what we're aiming at, and that's where we'll be, and we'll achieve it. In the Bloomberg consensus, it's true that they're very optimistic about financial expenses, but that's a variable that's not up to us. It depends on how interest rates evolve, if they go down drastically or not. That will affect the last line. But EBITDA improvements, efficiency, continuing to improve margin and providing those EUR 50 million more, we think that's perfect, and that's where we're heading. Then there are a couple of questions, the two sides of the same coin, about the guidance moving on to something else. The underperformance in 2023, does it put at risk the outperformance guidance of 20 points? Or others ask us about the other side of the coin. The strong accumulated outperformance, could you consider bringing forward your plan?
In other words, the glass half empty or half full? It's hard to answer that. Without a doubt, we're going to meet all the guidance, as I said earlier. And we're still in the first month of the year. And we have a positive forecast, as I said earlier. But I prefer to wait a few months to have more certain forecasts about the first half year, for example, to have a clearer picture and to see whether, as we've done in the past, we can bring forward the plan. Because as I said, we're between 75% to 85% of the completion of the plan. With 2024, where, we're going to outperform improve margins, etc., etc., you can imagine that that will be up to a figure of plan completion that will start with a 9. And, talking about capital allocation, what do you have in your M&A pipeline?
The EUR 5.5 billion there reference to wait for—is there something in the short term? When we talk about corporate operations, we don't just talk about M&A. We talk about M&A, the buying of our own stock, minority stake operations. We have already invested 10% more or less of this amount. M&A without a doubt forms part of the DNA of our company. And we're analyzing an M&A operation across my desk every day. But it's true that the current M&A at good companies means very high multiples. And compared with our share pricing, it's almost double. Years ago companies that were listed on the stock market had a premium of 20% to 25%. And today it's the opposite. Today as the companies are currently listed, you want to buy an unlisted company. And as I say, the multiples are 50% to 100% more expensive.
And that's why closing an M&A operation becomes difficult. Having said all this, as I said at the beginning, it's part of our DNA. We are still analyzing things. And, and if we find operations, that will bring about, significant improvements, that means contribute to provide value for our company, we'll look into them. And also about, capital allocation, what's the ROCE you're, obtaining? We used to report it, and, we don't do it anymore. Has it ceased to become to be an important KPI for us? Well, I would say it's the most important KPI at our company. In other words, our company doesn't do anything that well, instead of ROCE, we use a RONA. We don't do anything that doesn't give us a RONA of 20%. Everything I sign that has to do with investments, projects, etc., should give us a RONA of 20%.
Otherwise, we don't go ahead.
When we carry out M&A operations, we did ordinary operations in 2019, etc., etc. It's logical to have a significant drop in RONA, and then year by year we grow by 100 basis points, more or less. At the end of 2023, we're close to 19%. And the goal we have for the plan is 20%. And this, we achieve, with no problem. So, the RONA will be the most important thing at our company. And to finish with capital allocation, another question that's just come in: doesn't it make, more sense in view of the large, multiples, that are being asked for, by companies for M&A? What do we think about that? About what? About buying, shares? Yes. This is something we're always discussing. Without a doubt, the cheapest operation is, to buy CIEs and the most, profitable.
But if we buy CIE's, we won't be listed because the free float is very small. And that's why we put the brake on continuing to buy shares. But let's say the feeling of the team, the feeling of the board is that CIE is the best possible investment. But as I said, let's think more on the long term. So we're going to stay the way we are now. Well, there are no further questions.
Well, thank you very much, Jesús María, for joining us today. And thank you all very much for being here. And all the best with your results being here.
Well, thanks very much to everyone. And as I always say, keep trusting in this project, which is the most beautiful and most ambitious project on the market. Thank you very much. Look forward to seeing you again.