Good morning, and welcome to our 2024 first half results presentation. I'm Ezequiel Nieto, Head of Investor Relations, and as usual, let me refer you to disclaimer on slide number 3 that shows the legal framework under which this presentation must be considered. First, let me introduce the participants of this call: Marc Murtra, Executive Chairman of Indra; José Vicente de los Mozos, CEO of Indra; Antonio Mora, Chief Control Officer; and Luis Abril, Managing Director of Minsait. Marc, the floor is yours.
Thank you, Ezequiel. Good morning to everybody. Welcome to this conference call, in which we are pleased to present our results for the first half of 2024. I extend my thanks to all of you for your attendance. It is an honor for me to address you today in my capacity as Indra's Executive Chairman. The first half of 2024 has been important for Indra, focused on setting us on the right implementation of our new strategic plan for 2024-2026, Leading the Future, unveiled in March of this year. That is our focus, execution. As defined in our strategic plan, Indra's vision is to become the Spanish multinational of reference in defense and aerospace and advanced digital technologies.
Over the last three months since the announcement of the plan, we have seen good progress, acting as a driver to build a path that will meet our Leading the Future strategic plan targets. Our double-digit growth in revenues, EBITDA, net income, and free cash flow compared to the first half of 2023 is, in our view, a good headline of our performance. Our increased operational profitability, evidenced by improved EBIT and EBITDA margins, demonstrate the impact of the actions and initiatives we have executed over the past months, some of which we will discuss today. The financial performance is a testament to the work we have made in each of Indra's businesses. In our efforts to develop a defense ecosystem around Indra, we follow a collaboration and corporation, cooperation strategy with stakeholders in the sector.
As part of it, Indra invested in ITP in the third quarter of 2023, and has now received a EUR 59.6 million dividend payment, representing the first returns on its investment. Please remember, ITP is not a financial investment for us. It is an industrial investment, but it has given us a good first return. In air traffic management, we're focused on maintaining our leadership position in Europe, Middle East, and Latin America, ultimately aiming to become the number one player globally, reinforcing our position in North America and Asia Pacific. We are making progress in these new priority geographies, North America and Asia Pacific, leveraging key collaborations to access major renovation programs. In Minsait, we are working hard to evolve towards a digitally focused portfolio, integrating capabilities in artificial intelligence, cloud, cybersecurity, and other high-potential technologies to establish an industry-leading offering.
In fact, digital and solutions joint sales accounted for 50% of Minsait sales. Integration of mobility into Minsait, as laid out in our strategic plan, is set to further drive our digital-focused offering. Also worth highlighting are the advancements made over the last months in our technology roadmap. We are immersed in a process to identify the key future technologies, capabilities, and productions in which to invest. This initiative builds upon previous tech developments Indra has been working on, and its progress until 2030 will be closely monitored by a tech control tower. We're strengthening our organization with new appointments. We have recently appointed Miguel Forteza Aguarón, formerly Deputy CFO and Investment Director of the Nortia Group, as our new Chief Financial Officer, also joining Indra's executive committee.
Additionally, we are launching a new geographical organization, which our CEO will detail later on, resulting in the appointment of new regional directors. Latin America and South Europe will be led by Pedro Rodríguez Veiga, previously in charge of Minsait's international business. Middle East will be headed by Luis Permuy Muñoz-Rivero, who has been responsible for Indra's business in Asia, the Middle East, and Africa since 2016. United States, United Kingdom, and Northern Europe will be overseen by José Jacinto Monge Bravo, who joins the Indra group. The rest of the world will be coordinated in an export model by José Luis Gascó, formerly responsible for the Asia Pacific region. Thank you for your attendance and attention. I will now give the floor to our CEO, José Vicente de los Mozos.
Thank you, Marc. Good morning, everybody, and welcome to our first semester 2024 conference call, and thank you for being with us here this morning. Let me begin by providing you all with Indra's main headline for the first half of 2024. In terms of financial headline, this result are a clear sign of a successful kickoff of the implementation of our strategic plan. Our revenues, EBITDA, net income, and free cash flow in first half of 2024 continued to grow at double-digit rate. Backlog and order intake grew by 5% and 7% respectively, showing our strong ability to generate business. This strong growth is accompanied by improvement in operating profitability, proved by increased EBITDA and EBIT margin across all our businesses.
Given the exceptional traction of Leading the Future strategic plan and the resulting financial result, with the chairman, we have decided to increase all our 2024 guidance metrics. In addition to this financial result, we are also proud to announce some of our most significant implementation milestone for our Leading the Future strategic plan during this first half of the year. We have successfully launched an automatic scorecard tool, focused on granular monitoring of the strategic plan's KPI and all level of the organization. This tool act as an enabler for the company to not only follow the achievement of Leading the Future up close, but to work together with a common goal in mind. We have also launched our new geographic model at around three focus region, with eleven home markets to ensure we are closer to our customer.
During this past six months, we have also focused on one of our most important strategic lever, inorganic growth. With an ambitious M&A target in mind, we have already working with a broad and deep pipeline of target companies, with advanced conversation being held with a significant number of them. As for joint venture and strategic alliance, we have engaged in partnership with key players such as Lockheed Martin or Middle East top player Edge Group. Turning back to our financial result, let me highlight the following: the double-digit growth achieved across our main metrics, together with both the volume and quality of our backlog, accounting for three times our revenue, which grew 4.8%, prove to be a good indicator to the near future growth of Indra.
The commercial momentum that the company is going through, with revenue growing at 15%, is strongly backed by all our businesses. Most notably, growth registered by air traffic management at +33% and by defense at +31%. All this has also allowed us to improve our margin and cash generation, empowering us to maintain financial leverage below our target of 0.2 for net debt ratio EBITDA. If we look at the picture for our second quarter of 2024, we see trends as positive as those of the first half. Revenue grew at +8% rate, and EBITDA and EBIT margin improved by almost 1 percentage point to 9.6% and 7.5% respectively. Despite higher structural costs, given the implementation of the strategic plan and one-off costs due to potential acquisition and disinvestment under analysis.
Net profit grew by +15%, and free cash flow stood at +EUR 1 million, a very positive figure, considering the seasonality of this parameter and inclusion of a one-off income tax payment of EUR 41 million. As I already mentioned, this first half result have allowed us to upgrade our guidance for the end of the year, improving all of the previously announced guidance metric by +4%. That is to deliver revenue of more than EUR 4,800 million, EBIT above EUR 450 million, and free cash flow over EUR 260 million by the end of 2024. One of the main lever behind this result revision has been, of course, the acceleration of the strategic plan as its monitorization through our scorecard tool.
Specifically, for the rigorous monitoring and acceleration of the activity plan, our Scorecard Tool operate under the guidance of dedicated monthly committees, ensuring that every aspect of our plan is thoroughly overseen and analyzed by business and initiative leaders. The tool logic is structured to provide different level of KPI visualization, tailored to meet the needs of various stakeholders with our organization. At level one, we present the key KPIs at the Indra Group level, offering a comprehensive overview of our overall progress. Level two break this down further, showcasing the key KPI for each of division: defense, air traffic management, space, and insights. This level of detail ensure clear visibility and accountability for every division across the company. Level three provides an in-depth view within each division, allowing us to pinpoint specific areas needing improvement.
Finally, level four offer detailed insight at initiative level, such as radar design and manufacturing, providing a granular view that help us fine-tune our action plan accordingly. Across all these levels, we monitor four type of KPI: financial, commercial, operational, and talent. This comprehensive approach ensure that we are not only tracking our financial health, but also our operational efficiency, such as use of AI tool, and the development of our talent, such as top talent recruitment and attrition. In summary, with this robust tool and structured approach, we are confident in our ability to steer our plan Leading the Future successfully, making informed decision that drive us all as a company toward our strategic goal, allowing us to continue producing the kind of financial results we are seeing here today. If somebody have doubt about the implementation of Leading the Future, please don't think more.
Leading the Future will be implementing at the right time, at the right moment. Now, let's shift our focus toward our new geographic model, which was introduced during our Capital Market Day last March. In the last month, we landed this model guided by three key principle. First, to increase local presence in high-value countries and region, allowing us to be closer to our customer with local production capacity and attracting local talent. Second, the implementation of clear and standardized mechanisms to assign operating models to country based on a set of objective parameters. And third, the rationalization of legal entities and simplification of a structure to increase focus, reduce costs, and reallocate more resources to our home market.
As a result, Indra Group will concentrate on these three focus regions, including several home markets, and maintain a core international export business to ensure that we keep a broad and impactful presence worldwide. The three international focus regions are North America and Central and Northern Europe, Latin America and Southern Europe, and Middle East and North Africa. By focusing our efforts on these key regions, we are better positioned to support our internationalization strategy, optimize our resources, leverage, and drive sustainable growth. As a result of implementing this new geographic model, Indra Group will significantly rationalize its international footprint. We will evolve from having a local structure in 45 countries to just 19, which accounts for more than 70% of our international sales. Of these 19 countries, 11 will be home markets with full structure, and the remaining 8 will have simplified structure.
This strategic consolidation will streamline our operation and focus our resources more effectively. Additionally, we anticipate a reduction of approximately 55-65 permanent legal entities in our international footprint. This simplification is a crucial step in optimizing our global operation and reducing complexity. This change underscore our commitment to enhancing operational efficiency, maintaining a strong presence in key market, and supporting our strategic goal. After having reviewed some of our key financial and business highlight for the first half of the year, please allow me to dig deeper into our financial result. It's important to remark the strength of organic growth, once we remove the impact of FX impact and inorganic contribution. 12% for the first half of 2024, and +6% for the quarter.
On the left-hand side, we can see the breakdown of our revenue by region in the period, which are spread across Spain, 50%, Europe, 21%, America, 20%, and EMEA, 9%. Currently, our international business account for 50% of our revenue. In terms of EBITDA distribution, Defense, Air Traffic Management, and Mobility represent 52% of the total for the first half of the year. Here, we can see the evolution of our workforce, broken down by business. Let me highlight here that we have improved our revenue per employee by 13%, while our workforce has only increased by 1% compared to June 2023. As you can see, we follow also our productivity. Now, I will leave the floor to our Chief Control Officer, Antonio Mora, for in-depth review of this performance of the division.
Before all this that the chairman has announced a new CFO, CFO, I want to thank Antonio Mora for his interim during this month. Antonio, the floor is you.
Thank you, José Vicente, and good morning, everyone. Now, once the big picture has been presented, let's dive into the performance of each of our four divisions, starting in page 19 with Defense. This has been a very strong first half for Defense, as you can see in the key figures on the slide. Order intake grew by 6%, mainly thanks to the integrated system and simulation areas, and despite the decline shown in both the FCAS and Eurofighter projects. More important are the very strong figure of sales, which grew 31% in one half 2024, with double-digit growth posted both in Spain and Europe... mostly driven by the contribution of the FCAS project. Excluding this contribution, sales would have increased by 5%.
On top of this solid revenue growth, EBIT margin stood at 15.5% in first half 2024, from 15.9% last year same period. Quarter-wide sales grew by 17%, also driven by the FCAS project. EBITDA, EBITDA margin stood at 16.3% versus 17.6% in Q2 quarter 2023, mainly due to higher structural costs derived from the implementation of the strategic plan, and one-off costs related to potential acquisition that are under analysis, as we mentioned before. For its part, EBIT margin was 14.9% for the quarter, compared to 16% in Q2 quarter 2023. Air Management also delivered very strong performance, as you see on slide number 21. The positive performance show by the order intake, 57% growth, was mainly due to the contracts signed in Canada and Colombia.
Aim on the new contract, it's worth noting that NAV CANADA has joined the iTEC Alliance, thus extending its membership beyond European borders for the first time. Sales in first half 2024 grew by 33%, with all geographies posting growth, mainly driven by contracts carried out in Belgium, Azerbaijan, China, and Spain, as well as the inorganic growth for the acquisition of Park Air in the UK and the Selex business in the US. Finally, EBIT margin was in double-digit range of 11.9%. If we move to slide 22, we show the performance of the quarter, starting by 8% revenues growth bolstered by Azerbaijan, UK, and Norway projects.
EBITDA margin stood at 13.3% compared to 13.4% in Q2 2023, implying 7% growth in absolute terms, where EBIT margin posted 9.4% versus 10.2% in Q2 2023. If we move to the mobility division, order intake fell 9%, explained by the difficult comparable due to the tunnel management system contract in the UK recorded in 2023. Sales grew 13%, driven by the growth posted in all geographies, especially bolstered by America and Europe. The EBIT margin in first half 2024 improved to 3.8% from -3.2%, recorded in first half 2023. On the slide 24, we show the evolution of the division in the quarter. Revenues increased 9%, boosted by Mexico, Spain, and UK projects.
EBITDA margin improved to 5.3% from 6.6% in Q2 2023, and EBIT margin also went up to 4.3% from -7.8%. Now, on page 25, Minsait also printed a very positive first half of the year. The good commercial momentum goes on, with backlog growing at 17% and order intake 3% in first half 2024. For this part, revenues in first half 2024 grew by 9%, driven by the strong performance shown in public administration and healthcare, which grew 18%, thanks to the positive activity with the public administration in Spain and the election project in El Salvador and in Iraq. Energy and industry posted 7% growth, and financial services registered a 6% increase.
Finally, EBIT margin in 1H 2024 improved to 5.3% versus 5.2% in 1H 2023, thanks to higher operating leverage from the steady sales growth, as well as improved revenue mix towards digital and solution and the ongoing focus on cost efficiencies. On slide 26, in the quarter, Minsait posted 6% revenue growth, showing all verticals good performance: financial services, 10%; energy and industry, 5%; and PPA and healthcare, 4%, except for telecom and media, which declined 3%. Regarding profitability, operating margin stood at 6.9%, same level that Q2 2023. For this part, EBIT margin printed 5.2%, same level than in the second quarter of 2023 as well.
On page 27, the breakdown of Minsait revenues by horizontal, where you can see that we have improved our mix once again with digital and solution growing by 13% compared to first half 2023, and now representing 50% of our sales. On page 28, we show our order intake and revenues breakdown of Minsait. First half 2024 order intake was up 3%, standing out financial services, 19%, and telecom and media, 3% growth. Moving to the middle of the slide, revenues in first half 2024 grew by 9%, driven by public administration and healthcare, 18%, energy and industry, 7%, and financial services, 6%. On the contrary, revenues in telecom and media decreased 4%.
On the right-hand side, revenues in the quarter increased 6%, showing growth in all verticals: financial services, 10%, energy and industry, 5%, and PPA and healthcare, 4%, except for telecom and media, which posted 3% decline. Let's start the financial review with evolution of the free cash flow on slide 29. That amount, EUR 69 million, an excellent figure, taking into account business seasonality, the inclusion of the income tax payment of EUR 41 million corresponding to the delivery of shares of the medium-term remuneration plan for the period 2021, 2023, and considering that we are comfortably exceeding the figure for the first half of the previous year. This level of cash generation, as we see below, has allowed us to maintain our financial leverage in a very low level.
Now, in page 30, we see how days of sale improved compared to the same period of 2023. The good performer versus June 2023 can be explained by the improvement of accounts receivable, -6 days, and accounts payable, -5 days. Page 31 shows the net debt evolution of first half of 2024. The first step is a strong operating cash flow of EUR 225 million due to excellent performance of the business and the resulting higher operating profitability. As mentioned, net working capital stood at minus EUR 69 million, same figure as in first half 2023. Other financial liabilities stood at EUR 16 million, similar figure as the previous year, and net interest at EUR 14 million, EUR 7 million more than in first half 2023.
With all this, we have closed this first half with net debt at EUR 93 million on a leverage ratio of 0.2 net debt to EBITDA, as you can see in page 32. Slightly above the figure we presented in June 2023, but still at very low debt levels. And now, to finish my part, my part, a quick look to the debt structure in page 33. In 1H 2024, gross debt has been reduced to EUR 582 million, average maturity below 2 years, and cost of debt at 4.3%. The cash position at the end of June was EUR 489 million, and we also have EUR 680 million euro of undrawn credit facilities, so that we maintain liquidity while canceling gross debt with cash. With this, we finish the presentation.
Let's move on to the Q&A session. Today, we will take first the question from the analysts that are physically here with us, and then we will answer the question of the audience in the conference call.
Thank you, Antonio.
Good morning, Beatriz Rodriguez from Bestinver, and thank you for taking my question. I was wondering if you could give us some color on Indra's performance. Taking into account that some competitors have lowered their estimates for 2024, how do you see the evolution in the second half of the year? Are you seeing a slowdown in demand? Thank you.
Thank you, Beatriz.
I was expecting this question, actually. No, no, actually not, actually not. We are relatively confident with the guidance that we've given for the end of the year 2024, which basically, in terms of the top line, is to be in levels of growth of that which are higher than mid-single digit. We see no significant slowdown. We acknowledge that there is some uncertainty, actually, because we see what our competitors are saying. You know, but to be honest, we see, you know, a solid pipeline. We see interest in our customers on what we are doing. You know, we are relatively confident with potential additional growth in the future.
This may have to do with many things, actually. I think that we are doing things right. We are implementing several internal measures for improving commercial practices. We are adding new profiles of salespeople to our staff. We are redefining some processes. We are adjusting the incentive systems for our commercial people. And this probably is affecting the fact that we are growing. You know, also, the nature of our activity, it probably also helps. And by the nature of our activity, I mean the fact that we are typically large customers, more than in SMEs.
... which are more resilient, in, I mean, helping them in core activities, which give us some resilience as well. But as you've seen, I mean, all the sectors are tractioning well, and, you know, growth is being solid. You know, and probably we expect a better growth in the second half of the year than what we've seen in this quarter. As I was saying, you know, the guidance, we maintain the guidance of growing at least at mid-single digit, and we're relatively confident that we'll achieve that.
Thank you.
Hi, good morning. This is David from JB Capital. Thank you very much for taking my question. I have two. The first one is on the defense division. EBIT margin came 1% lower in Q2. Could you give more color on the reason of the decline in EBIT margin in defense? How do you expect this trend in the coming quarters? And the second question is on the outlook for defense. Can you maintain double-digit growth in sales in the coming years? Are there any bottlenecks in the supply chains or any delays? What is your view on the downside risk? Thank you.
Well, about the 1% EBIT, I think we have explained is the mix. Okay? I think we need to be focused more to increase the sale of the systems. But in spite of this, when we compare our competitor, we are in the best-in-class in defense. That we are not worried about this. About the portfolio and the sales, I think we need to push the internationalization and the export. If we take, for example, Latin America, in the past, last year we have sold EUR 9 million in defense. That we have the potential in security, modernization, that the implementation of the plan, for example, is the first region that we are working, that show us a potential growth. If we take Middle East, that also area, it was international by export.
We have a potential with Edge Group, business that we are going to develop. That all this item, the regions implementation will help us. If we take U.S., for example, our agreement with Lockheed Martin also will give us the fruit in the future. That is for that, one of the KPIs we request to the defense team is outside FCAS, outside Eurofighter, we need to grow EUR 1,000 million sales. With this indicator, at the end of June, we have achieved more than EUR 400 million in the plan. That people are focused in the main, in the system to sell and to support, not only in Spain, but also the, you know, our relevant role in the defense industry in Spain, but also internationalization. About supply chain. Well, you know, I came from industrial world.
I think to put the order, we need to work by order. The first action has been engineering. Today, we can monitor 100% of the project, will be on time, will be delayed three months, will be delayed more. Okay, that's we know. We know the profitability of project in granular mode. That is done. Now, industry. Now we are working in the supply chain processes, and also we are analyzing all the bottlenecks in manufacturing. For example, last year we increased 38% the production, and this year we continue this growth because we see a potential. The idea behind this is to reduce the order intake of the production to accelerate in the future new, new possibilities of the production. That is in process. I'm confident. I think people are very motivated and also study very deeply.
I can give you one example, that our defense director for 8 by 8, we have daily monitoring QA/QC in Aranjuez plant to monitor the 8 by 8, ocho por ocho, deliveries. That is a revolution in industrial, and that is done in Aranjuez. It's one of the example we are starting to monitor around the company.
Okay, thank you.
Ladies and gentlemen, the conference call Q&A starts now. If you wish to ask a question, please press star followed by five on your telephone keypad. Our first question comes from the line of Nicolas David from ODDO BHF. Please go ahead.
Yes, good morning. Thank you for taking my question. Actually, I have three. The first one is regarding FCAS. You recorded a super strong revenue in Q2, higher than the trend we probably imagined, initially imagined it. Is it a pull-forward revenue, or is it a higher run rate, including for the next quarters, this strong revenue you had in Q2? My second question is regarding the one-off costs. Could you detail a bit the amount you recorded in Q2? And are they all recorded in Q2, or do you expect more in the rest of the year?
If we look at this in the perspective of the annual guidance that you increase, where does cost did they vary also in the guidance perspective? Did they increase or are lower than what you initially expected? That's my second question. My last question is regarding the space business. Could you comment, please, what could be the implication for your space M&A strategy regarding following the recent announcement from Thales and Airbus Space, a potential merger? Does it change something for you? Does it prompt you to wait a bit more? Any color would be helpful. Thank you.
Thank you for your question. About FCAS, okay, we have more invoices than we expected. In H1, we have received EUR 137 million in H1 2024 versus EUR 49 million in 2023, and we expect for 2024 EUR 20 million versus EUR 139 million in 2023. But about one-off, we don't give details about this. Second half, yes, it's possible. About space business, we have announced in our capital market day that for us, it's important, space, because all the communication will go through the space. That to secure communication, we need to develop this business. We are working in the new core space around the value chains, and we are looking all the opportunities in the market and is creating different companies. Also, we follow very carefully Thales, Airbus, and all the movement are in the market.
That we are studying. When we have informal revelation, we'll anticipate, but we are following carefully. When we look at what's happened in a space business in Europe and worldwide, I think we are confident that it was the good moment to enter in this business space from Indra.
Thank you, José Vicente. Maybe regarding the one of cost, just, in the guidance perspective, is it something, even if you have cost in H2, is it perfectly in line with your initial plan? Or should we understand that you manage to increase annual guidance despite maybe higher exceptional cost, or it's nothing related to that? And maybe, if I can, very quick follow-up on air traffic management, could you give us some color about the decline in Q2? What do you expect in H2, there? Is it just a small slowdown and you still have good prospect, or is it more structural? Thank you.
You know me, guidance includes everything, okay? Don't worry. I think we don't find excuse, okay? We think we are in solid moment, and we need to continue to grow and improve our performance. But don't worry, everything is included in the new guidance.
Our next question comes from the line of Álvaro Lenze from Alantra Equities. Please go ahead.
Hi, thanks for taking my questions. The first one is on the geographic restructuring that you presented today. Just wanted to know whether this is mostly an attempt to improve your commercial performance. I don't know if your previous structure was a hurdle from a marketing standpoint, or whether this is mostly to simplify the structure and save costs, and in that case, how much could be the potential savings? My second question would be on the development of the 8x8 Dragon program. You mentioned that you are increasing the monitoring. I don't know if you have seen an acceleration of the production schedule. At the beginning of the year, we saw some pushback from, or some criticism from the Spanish government regarding the delays. I don't know if the situation is improved.
Also, as you know, it has made the press, your interest on Tess Defence, which is the company that organizes the 8x8 program. I don't know if you could comment on your interest there or lack of interest in the SPV. Thank you.
Well, about geographic, it was mainly from export, Minsait in Latin. I think we have copy, Latin America Minsait, and from this experience, we are developed on all the company. But when we talk, when we have analyzed the region, the three regions, first, we need to start by the country, okay? We need to be focused in the country that we think we can be relevant. If we take, for example, Latin America, in defense, key country is Brazil. That we have monitored the key country that we think we have potential business. And also, we have studied how to improve our businesses, in this country. That can be in some country, organic and other inorganic. That all this diligence has been done. And that, we have analyzed, that we have a structure in 45 countries.
I think for internationalization is not to go to the country, put the flag, and go back. For me, is study the country, and minimum is to have EUR 200 million business. That is, for me, a home country. And that we have studied the 11 countries that we think we are very close of this, and we are in the same way that we have deploy Leading the Future, we are deploying Leading the Future in each country. For example, if we take Middle East, we have three country. We have Emirate, Arabia, and Morocco. That each country we are working in this strategic plan for this home market or simplified market. Success tool is a scorecard. Okay? And that is very important because we need to find the coherence between objective deployment and the Leading the Future result.
With this scorecard, it's very easy to analyze the different indicator, not only financial, but we need to have also process indicator. Process indicator become from sales, become from industrial, become from engineering. That is very important to find the coherence between process indicator and result indicator. And that has been done in this tool, a scorecard, and we follow with the chairman and myself every two weeks, and we're monitoring. And that is very easy tool because now we have started to prepare the budget 2025, will be very easy because we know where we are about the processes result, and that will be very easy to implement the result. About this, I leave the floor to the chairman.
Yes, with regards to our test defense and different rumors and different information that have appeared, we have to, of course, refer you to our strategy, our defense strategy, on our objectives in the different dominions, including the land dominion. And if there is anything for us to announce, we will announce it in due time. Thank you.
Okay, thanks. And just on the performance of the 8x8 program, if you could indicate whether there has been an acceleration on deliveries and whether the client is happier with the evolution of the project, or if things continue to struggle?
I think never has been said that Indra is delayed in Ocho por Ocho. The delay has become by test, okay? I don't want to disclose what has been the reason of the delays. Okay? But the announcement has been test delay, not Indra delays.
Okay, thank you for the clarifications.
Our next question comes from the line of Carlos Iranzo Perez from Bank of America. Please go ahead.
Hey, guys. Good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. I actually have three, if I may. So the first one on defense margins. Obviously, it's been impacted by the one-off, so could you please give us some color on these one-offs to try to understand what was the underlying margin in defense in the second quarter? And just following up here, any update you can provide in terms of capital allocation, particularly regarding Hispasat? And the last one, are there any potential cost savings related to the rationalization of the international footprint? Thank you.
Regarding higher structural costs derived from the implementation of a strategic plan and the one-off specific costs due to potential acquisition and divestitures under analysis, sorry, but we don't disclose this figure. But enough, more than enough, to suit the trend from negative to positive regarding the EBIT revenues ratio and the comparison between years.
Yeah, about productivity, we monitor the cost saving, okay? I can, you can see the ratio for, performer by employee, that we have increased 13%. But also we're monitoring, by cost. And in also including, we are studying what is the effect of the AI, implementation in the productivity, okay? That we are in these processes. About Hispasat, I think we have answered many time. We are interested in the space division. We are studying different option, different company around the value chain, and when we have some relevant information, we'll give, we'll, we will inform you.
Very clear. Thank you.
Our next question comes from the line of Lauren Door from Kepler. Please go ahead.
Yes, thank you. Good morning, gentlemen. I also have three questions. The first is also on defense. I was more interested in the outlook between 2025 and 2027. Basically, if you were to break down the defense business in three, FCAS, your fighter and the other programs, if you could share your view on those three sub-segments to help us to build our model on the different growth for those years. My second question is on Minsait. If you could share with us your exposure to ERP, and more particular to SAP and RISE with SAP. And my final question is on the EU projects from Minsait that have been helping the revenue in past quarters.
How much further, additional business, are you expecting from the EU in the next quarters or next two or three years? Thank you.
Okay. So, with regards to 2025 and 2026 defense prospects, we won't go into the specifics regarding FCAS or Eurofighter, up and above what has been told by official sources in these projects. But what we do see is a consolidation and more strength in the trends we have identified these last few years. Higher defense investment, higher investment in transnational programs, and growing importance in the command and control systems that are Indra's, Indra's core. So I think that all the news we have, and that we have been seeing in these last two, three months, reinforces with specific data and with political will and with budgets, what we see. So if anything, we see much stronger signs than we did three, four months ago.
But we haven't translated into specific changes up and above the changing guidance for 2024.
I think-
Mark, sorry to interrupt. But I understand you don't want to share everything, but my worry is that it seems like the FCAS is a trough at the peak, sorry, in revenue terms. I don't think you have to expect too much from your fighter. So I'm just trying to see where growth in defense is gonna come from, if there is a specific program you would rely on, or just multiple sources of small contracts. Anything, any granularity would be helpful on this question.
Yeah. Okay. You know, in defense, we are a system supplier, okay? In spite of what will happen with FCAS, we are working in the system, okay? That this system, electronic warfare and other system, will be implemented in different program. Thus, for us, this project is a booster to reinforce our position of system. Thus, for that, we are not pessimistic about this, independent of the program. And Eurofighter, you know, we have Eurofighter LTE. Thus, we have additional business in the following years. That we think, in spite of these two program, the rest we will increase in a strong way. Not only Spain, because, I repeat, we are focused in export internationalization on some key countries. That we need to understand the total overview of the business and the geography.
You can see our order intake and our backlog-
Yeah
... which will affect 2025 and 2026. They're doing very well.
The other two question was Minsait.
Thank you. Thank you, Logan. I can take Minsait, if you want. Okay, I will ask you to repeat the second one, okay? Because I didn't take it. On the third one, well, the fact is that, if we look at the future, we are expecting growth, you know, from all geographies and from all verticals. It is true that Europe, and specifically EU funds, probably will help and have been having helped in the past as well. But as you've seen in the presentation, you know, growth is all around. And there are no specific projects, which are actually, you know, moving the needle significantly.
You know, actually, if we take a look at the second quarter of 2024, it is more the opposite. I mean, if you take a look, for example, at elections figures, you know, the revenues coming from elections in this second quarter have been extremely low. Nine million, I think, or something like that, which is probably a sign of this message, you know, about our confidence in future growth. You know, because as I was saying, I mean, all verticals and most geographies are growing. We have good prospects for Europe, but also for other geographies. And you said, I mean, can, and if you-
The last question was on SAP.
You know, SAP, we see good prospects as well for SAP in the next, at least 2, 3 years. I think that SAP is doing things well. I mean, all this movement to HANA and, you know, with the RISE initiative, I think that it is showing good demand from customers. We are well-positioned. I think they are, at least in some geographies and in some segments. As you know, we have something like 2,000 SAP consultants. You know, and as I was saying, we expect good growth. This should be one of the digital offering lines that should help us keep on growing, not only in this second half of the year, 2024, but probably in 2025 and 2026.
Okay. I want to thank-
Okay, thank you so much.
I want to thanks everybody today to participate and listen us. Leading the Future is on track. That, I told before, some doubt about implementation. Leading the Future will be implementation at the right time with the right performance. Indra is growing in all the division. I want to thank this opportunity to thank all the employees in Indra and all the board support for us, and also the president for the confidence, because Indra go back. Thank you.
Thank you, José Vicente. Thank you, everybody. Good August.