Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to EPL Limited Q2 and H1 FY 2026 earnings conference call, hosted by Systematix Shares and Stocks Limited. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on beliefs, opinions, and expectations of the company as of the date of this call. These statements are not the guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star, then zero on a touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Pratik Tholiya from Systematix Shares and Stocks Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Yeah, thanks, Ikra. Good afternoon, everyone. On behalf of Systematix Institutional Equities, I would like to welcome all the participants who have logged into this Q2 H526 results conference call of EPL Limited. From the management team, we have today with us Mr. Anand Kripalu, MD and Global CEO; Mr. Hemant Bakshi, CEO Designate; Mr. M. R. Ramasamy, COO; Mr. Deepak Goyal, CFO; Mr. Thomas Stephen , President AMESA Region ; and Mr. Onkar Ghangurde , Head Legal, Company Secretary, and Compliance Officer. At the outset, I'd like to thank the management for giving us the opportunity to host this conference call. I would now like to welcome Mr. Anand Kripalu to begin the proceedings of this call today. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you very much, Pratik, and hello, everybody. Very good afternoon to you. Thank you for joining us for EPL Q2 FY 2026 earnings call. At the outset, I'd like to take a moment to welcome Hemant Bakshi. As many of you know, I will be retiring at the end of this year, and Hemant will be taking over as MD and Global CEO with effect from January 1, 2026. It has been a privilege to lead this exceptional organization, and I'm proud of the progress we have made together over these last four years. Before talking about the results, I also want to share some great news, which marks a proud milestone in EPL's sustainability journey. We are delighted that EPL has been awarded the prestigious EcoVadis Platinum rating, placing us in the top 1% of 150,000 companies assessed worldwide.
We are the only packaging company from India who is globally certified. Moving on to the results, I'm pleased to report another quarter of solid performance marked by sustained growth momentum and enhanced profitability. We delivered double-digit revenue growth of 11%, robust EBITDA growth of 16.1%, and a solid 19.9% growth in PAT. Our EBITDA margin expanded to 20.9%, an improvement of 91 basis points over the previous year, while ROC stood at 18.7%, up 217 basis points year-on-year. This performance is a testament to the clarity of our strategy, consistent execution, and disciplined operational management. The beauty and cosmetics category continued its strong momentum, delivering 26.3% year-on-year growth, reflecting the success of our sustained focus in the segment. From a regional perspective, growth was led by the Americas and East Asia-Pacific. The Americas delivered an outstanding 27.4% revenue growth, driven by strong momentum and new customer wins.
EAP grew 10.6%, supported by healthy growth across oral as well as beauty and cosmetics. Europe recorded 2.8% growth, impacted by temporary softness from a few large customers, while lapping a strong base. India was largely flat due to oral, as customers cleared old inventories following the GST impact, even as margins have shown steady improvement. With a robust B&C pipeline and oral recovery expected, growth will rebound in coming quarters. Our EBITDA margin of 20.9% represents a 91 basis point expansion over last year. This marks our fifth consecutive quarter with 20% + margin. PAT grew 19.9%, supported by strong operational performance and prudent financial management. EPS improved to INR 3.26 per share compared to INR 2.73 per share in Q2 FY 2024. Our net debt-to-EBITDA ratio stands at 0.52.
ROC was 18.7%, 217 basis points over last year and nearly 400 basis points over the last two years, underscoring our sharp focus on returns and capital efficiency. Consequently, we are delighted to announce an interim dividend of INR 2.50 per share. As I mentioned in the beginning of the call, we are very proud that we have been awarded the prestigious EcoVadis Platinum rating. We started our EcoVadis journey in 2018 when we were first awarded a Bronze rating. Over the last four years, we have made significant improvements in our product portfolio, people, processes, and carbon footprint to get to Platinum. Further strengthening our culture of excellence, EPL has been again certified as a great place to work across seven countries, a reflection of our consistent efforts to build an inclusive, engaging, and high-performing workplace.
As we look ahead, our priorities remain clear: to deliver sustainable, profitable double-digit growth through focused execution, portfolio diversification, and capital-efficient operations. Our focus remains on the following four areas. First, accelerating growth through continued momentum in beauty and cosmetics. The beauty and cosmetics category continues to be a strong growth engine, delivering double-digit growth now for four consecutive quarters. The personal care and beyond portfolio, which also includes B&C, now accounts for 53% of our total revenue, underscoring the continued broadening of our category base. The investment in NEOSeam, as well as its student format, is helping us deepen partnerships while leading global beauty brands. We have a large headroom ahead of us, and this is just the beginning of scaling this success further. Second, scaling new growth engines.
I am pleased to share that the Thailand plant has started operations in October, completing a world-class plant in just nine months. This could never have happened without the enormous support extended by the Indorama team, who enabled us to secure the site as well as critical licenses. We are starting with customer supplies in Q3, which is this quarter itself, in this very promising beauty and cosmetics market. Further, our Brazil plant continues to perform exceedingly well, making a meaningful contribution to the region's strong growth. We feel very confident of continuing this momentum in this high-potential market. Third, sustainability as a growth enabler. Our sustainable tube mix now stands at 38%, and we are making steady progress in this area. Now armed with the EcoVadis Platinum, we will be in the hunt for more business from our key customers who place sustainability as a critical priority.
Finally, fourth, margin expansion and capital efficiency. We have seen consistent margin improvement over the past quarters, in line with our commitment. We expect to continue improving our margins gradually through scale leverage and a few specific initiatives that will play out over the next few quarters. We have now turned our focus towards delivering strong ROC, which has seen consistent expansion. With further capital efficiency initiatives in place, we feel confident to move towards delivering our commitment of 25%+ ROC by FY 2029. Importantly, we are a company that manufactures in the U.S. for the U.S. Even as we await, and in fact, as the world awaits the final trade deal, we are well on our way to mitigate the impact through pricing as well as some creative solution sourcing options.
As I conclude, I want to express my heartfelt gratitude to all our stakeholders, but specifically you, our investors. It has been an honor to lead EPL through a period of transformation and to see it emerge stronger, more innovative, and more sustainable than ever before. I'm confident that under Hemant's leadership, the company will continue to build on this foundation and achieve even greater heights in the years to come. Before we open up the floor for questions, I would like to request Hemant to say a few words as he completes his first month with the company. Over to you, Hemant.
I must start by thanking Anand for leading EPL admirably for the last four years and laying strong foundations for the business. While I have spent just about four weeks in the business, I'm really excited by what I'm seeing. There's a lot to be proud about in our past, but more than that, I'm inspired by what lies ahead for us as a business. I'm just back from Thailand, where we inaugurated a factory that was built in just nine months. Not even some of the new age companies can claim to have this level of speed. We also had an opportunity to review our innovation pipeline in beauty and cosmetics, and I was just blown away with what I saw. I'm really, really impatient to see it all come alive on store shelves across the world now. These are early days, and I have a lot to learn.
I promise to come back to you in the near future with a plan and a program to take this fantastic company to even greater heights. Thanks a lot, and back to you, Anand.
Thank you, Hemant. With that, we will open up the floor for questions.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Mihir Shah from Nomura. Please go ahead.
Please go ahead.
Hi, Anand Kripalu. Thank you for taking my question. Firstly, congrats on a good set of numbers. Glad to see double-digit sales growth despite the headwind that we saw from India due to GST transition. Seems as though that it would have been better. I have a two-part question here on sales. Firstly, with Americas doing so well, how much of the growth was aided due to forex gains, and how much was driven by Brazil? That is one. Secondly, can one expect this double-digit growth trajectory on sales to continue in the second half also? It seems there can be a higher base that can start cycling due to higher sales from Brazil in the second half. Maybe India can take a little longer to come back to double-digit growth. Those are the two.
Maybe if I can ask, with Thailand commissioning production, will you start booking sales from 3Q, and how much will you start contributing? That is my first question.
Okay. Thank you, Mihir. Thank you very much. Let me try and address your questions, and I'll get my colleagues to chip in as appropriate. Firstly, as far as Brazil is concerned, I mean, Brazil is now pretty much in its third year of operation, and we continue to be super happy with how the momentum in Brazil is continuing. Having said that, I just want you to recognize the fact that our growth in Americas, which is very strong this quarter, is broad-based. All countries have grown double-digit. While Brazil has done extremely well, all the other countries have also done well. It is a broad-based growth from the Americas. As far as forex is concerned, it's honestly like this, right? We deal with currencies across the world from the yuan in China all the way to the Mexican peso, and everything in between.
We have a kind of global portfolio of currencies. There are some quarters where we have headwinds from currencies, and there are some quarters where we have tailwinds from currencies. Because we are an INR reporting company, we do not really break this up separately. All I can tell you is that there is some FX benefit that has come this quarter, as indeed there have been FX headwinds in some of the previous quarters. As far as your question on Thailand is concerned, yes, we will start commercial billing this quarter itself, okay? Now, like any plant, it will start slow and then hopefully accelerate. We are already thinking about expansion in Thailand because we are very encouraged with the strength of our business development pipeline.
We are already thinking of now the next machine, even as the first machines start up and start supplying commercially. We remain very excited. We have just come back from Thailand, as Hemant said, inaugurating the plant. We are all super, super excited by the nature of opportunity as well as the kind of innovation that our teams are doing over there to harness that opportunity. Finally, will double-digit growth continue? We have delivered double-digit growth now for two quarters. Our intent has always been to be squarely in the double-digit zone, hugely fueled by success in beauty and cosmetics. If I am honest with you, our momentum on beauty cosmetics has only just started. We have enormous headroom for future growth. As you would recognize, oral has been a little soft, though much better in Q2 than Q1.
As oral comes back, because honestly, people are not going to stop brushing their teeth, and our shares are completely intact, as oral comes back and as the benefits of the B&C momentum continue to build, I am confident that this business is set up for sustained double-digit growth.
Got it. Thank you for that. Second question is on margins. Your operating margins are near your peak levels. I know historically the company has mentioned that margins will not go beyond a certain level. However, if I have to just think about with beauty and cosmetics continuing to grow strongly, mix improvement can still contribute to that margin lever. Even if.
Sorry to interrupt, Mihir. Ladies and gentlemen, the management line has been disconnected. Please hold while we get them reconnected. Ladies and gentlemen, thanks for being on hold. The management has been reconnected. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
I'm not sure. Was my last answer fully heard?
We heard your answer on the revenue front. I was asking the question on margins. Could you hear any of my questions on the margins front, sir?
No, I didn't hear any questions on margins. You got the full answer on the double-digit growth part, right?
I did, I did. Thank you for that.
Right. You want to come back in the queue, Mihir? I do not know what the plan is, the operation, but I have answered three or four of your questions already. That is why I am asking.
Sure. No problem, sir. I'll come back in the queue. Thank you.
All right. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sameer Gupta from India Infoline. Please go ahead.
Hi. Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my question, sir. Firstly, bookkeeping question. Americas' high growth of 27%. I know you mentioned double-digit growth across countries, but still there is a quite visible acceleration this quarter. Just wanted to understand the driver of this acceleration, and is it sustainable?
See, first and foremost, I just want to say that EPL is a portfolio of countries and regions. The power of a portfolio is that sometimes when something does not do so well, other things come in and chip in so that we can still deliver our overall global commitments. This quarter, Americas has performed extremely well, as I said earlier. Now, is it sustainable? I do not know how to answer that question. All I am telling you is that it is broad-based. All countries in the Americas region have delivered double-digit growth, with Brazil being even stronger. Our intent is for the Americas to certainly deliver higher growth than the global average on a sustained basis, right? That is for sure, right? This quarter is probably a tad higher than normal, but I still expect very strong double-digit growth coming out of the Americas.
Very clear. That is helpful. Secondly, sir, on India, if you could just call out the growth which is adjusted for the GST-led inventory corrections, and both in oral and personal care, if you could do that in India region this quarter.
We're not breaking up oral and cosmetics growth by region, okay? I think that's the level of detail. Too far, Sameer. Now, having said that, it is hard for us to precisely estimate what has been the impact of GST, right? Now, you guys track all the other consumer goods companies. You know that many companies have delivered a soft quarter or a flattish quarter on the back of a soft September, okay? It's hard for me to decode that. Suffice to say that we have plans in place to, of course, recover anything that we may have lost from GST, but also to accelerate momentum in AMESA, and that's specifically as far as India is concerned. The plans there include some recovery from oral care and strong momentum from beauty and cosmetics.
Thank you, sir. I'll come back in the queue. I have many other questions also, but I'll give others a chance.
Okay. Thank you, Sameer.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management will be able to address questions from all the participants, kindly limit your questions to two per participant. Should you have a follow-up question, please rejoin the queue. The next question is from the line of Kashyap Javeri from Emkay Investment Managers. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you so much, sir, for the opportunity. Congratulations for a great set of numbers. Just one question on the Europe margins. We see a significant contraction there by YoY as well as QoQ. Any particular reason for that? And where do we see those margins, particularly for that geography in the coming few quarters?
Yeah. First of all, please do not look at margins sequentially for the business. I will give you an example. The countries that celebrate Christmas in a big way tend to have among their softest quarters in Q3, our Q3, which is the October-December quarter. Do not look at it sequentially because there is some seasonality.
I'm looking at both YoY as well as QoQ because for straight four quarters, we had about 17, 18.
Yeah. I'm coming to that. I'm coming to that. I'm saying don't look at it sequentially. Now, if you look at it year on year, you're absolutely right that there has been a contraction of margins. That margin drop essentially has been because of loss of scale of the business on top line. I just want to reassure you that costs are completely intact, okay? Costs have been very tight. It's not as if costs have gone out of control. There's been a loss of top line and specifically a significant challenge of destocking with one major customer, okay? That's the reason why these Europe margins have happened. Our guidance on Europe margins has always been mid-teens margins, okay? Therefore, our objective is to deliver mid-teens upwards.
The comparative last year, right, was particularly high, and therefore we had a high base as well that we were lapping. Our objective is absolutely to get quickly back to mid-teens. I would say this quarter is less than what we would have liked, right, and certainly less than our mid-teens guidance. We need to quickly recover from here, and that is the objective.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Raman K.V. from Sequent Investments. Please go ahead.
Hello, sir. Congratulations on a good set of numbers. Sir, I just want to understand what's your current utilization on a blended basis and how much, if you can give a ballpark number, how much capacity will the Thailand plant add to our entire production capacity?
I'm going to hand over to Ramasamy for a roundup of our capacity utilization. On Thailand specifically, I don't want to actually disclose the specific capacity. I think we've already disclosed earlier the investment we are making in the Thailand plant. I've already said in my response to the previous question that we are already looking at further expansion, right? We are building this plant in a very modular way. As we see the pipeline of orders building, we're going to very quickly go and expand capacity to a second line. It's too early, I would say, to start reading into what the specific capacity for Thailand is. On the overall capacity question, I'll hand over to Ramasamy.
Hello. Good afternoon, yeah. See, overall capacity is a mathematics of many things which happens in the market. We have an overall dominated market, which are contractual businesses, or capacity utilization can be anywhere between 65%-70%. Where we are dominated by beauty and cosmetics growth, the capacity utilization that what we ideally plan will be around 50%-55% because the fluctuation in that market is higher. Generally, you can take anywhere between 60%-65%, we use it. When we get into 65% and above, we plan for a capacity. Capacity additions happen in modular, whereas market grows linear. At any point of time, we'll see anywhere between 65%-70%. Sometime when it goes to peak 70%, then we have a capacity to come back to 65%.
In this business, it's being a little capital intensive, plus variation in the marketplace is higher, about 5%-10% that we can always accelerate utilization if it is a suddenly it has to be done. That's how it's planned. I hope I answered your question.
Yes. Answer one small question. It's mainly on the bookkeeping part. In the PPT, we have seen there was a strong growth. I mean, it's more or less like a follow-up on the previous participant's question. The Americas business has a strong growth with revenue growing around 27% and EBITDA going around 40%-45% +. So how much of this is the contribution to the increase in the US dollar?
We're not specifically giving a breakup of effects, even globally or indeed by region, okay? Like I said in the preamble, right, there are sometimes pluses and minuses as far as effects are concerned. I mean, we are an INR denominated company in terms of our performance and results, right, at the end of the day. Is there some benefit because of the US dollar? Of course, there is, but I'm not sure what happened to the Brazilian real or the Mexican peso, right? It is a blend of movement of currencies and not just one currency.
No. I just want to understand, is this tremendous growth was an effect of the euro to dollar strengthening, or was it an operation efficiency? From that point of view, I just wanted to understand.
The bulk of those numbers are because of underlying performance.
Okay. Thank you.
Right? The cherry on the cake may be the effects, right? The cake is underlying performance.
Okay. Understood, sir. I'll join back.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Amit Aggarwal from Leeway Investments. Please go ahead.
Sir, our other expenses have increased by 15% this quarter. Can you throw some light on that?
Other expenses have grown by 15% this quarter. Can you throw some light on that?
We'll take that right away.
Yeah.
Okay. I'm going to hand over to Deepak for that.
Yeah. If you see our other expenses, they are a critical part of the revenue growth. They are slightly ahead of, so other expenses have grown at 12.4% versus the revenue growth of 11%. These are driven by some investments that we have made in our S&D expenses. This is also driven by some power and fuel expansion or the inflation that has happened in the western part of the world. Equally, some amount of freight cost has gone up because of the customer mix expansion. This is a combination of inflation in power and fuel, some operating reasons like the freight, as well as some investments that we have made on the S&D expenses. All of this, the investment part, is also driving the revenue.
Do you think that it will continue or they will go back to the normal levels that it has been in the previous quarters?
See, ultimately, Amit, what we guide on is our EBITDA margin and EBITDA growth. We continue to maintain that we'll deliver double-digit revenue growth. Our EBITDA will grow faster than revenue. Our EBITDA margin will show improvement, gradual improvement now. That is how we manage the P&L. Now, the expenses line specifically, I don't want to comment on because it is very important for us to also drive revenue growth.
My second question is regarding the polymer prices. The polymer prices have remained constant or have gone down in the last two years. That must have helped you in giving better EBITDA margins. Can you segregate the percentage of polymer cost compared to aluminum cost? How is it going to affect in the future if polymer prices shoot up to the previous highs they had in 2022?
Amit, the commodity price indeed has remained stable, right? However, our revenue is a mix of contractual pricing where the entire commodity inflation or deflation gets passed on to the customer, and non-contractual pricing where we are able to negotiate with our customers on a need basis. This mix allows us to make sure that our P&L remains predictable, but at the same time, we also keep improving our EBITDA margin. I'm not sure if you have been part of our investment conferences or investor conferences or earlier calls, but we have always maintained that the effort of the business is to make our performance commodity cyclical proof, right? Even when the commodities are stable right now, we continuously keep monitoring our gross margins at a customer level. As the cycle reverses, we will start those pricing discussions.
Because the commodities are stable over a period of two years, let me just finish. Because commodities have been stable over a period of two years, there is no significant commodity benefit that has led to the EBITDA expansion. That is primarily coming because of our operational efficiencies and the margin improvement initiatives that we have taken.
Still, could you give a, how can you segregate the cost?
Please rejoin the queue for more questions. Thank you.
Okay. Thank you. Okay.
The next question is from the line of Sanjesh Jain from ICICI Securities Limited. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good afternoon, sir. Thanks for taking my question. Sorry, I joined a little late in the call. I apologize if it's repetition, but I just wanted to understand what has changed in this quarter for the Europe geography. We have been doing quite well in terms of revenue growth. I know you answered partly on the margin telling that it's largely driven by operating leverage, but sequentially, it has still grown by 0.6% while margins have been lower. Is that product mix has changed and the customer who has given lower order was predominantly a higher margin product? Is that how we should read this number?
No, I do not think that is how you should read it. I think you are probably reading more between the lines than is intended. The simple thing is, and I do not want to overstate it, but there has been a significant challenge of downstocking with a major customer, okay? This is not a broad-based kind of problem that is there in Europe, and I want everyone to just understand that properly, right? The bulk of the challenge has been with one customer, and there has been some significant downstocking that has happened across some of the countries in Europe, okay? Now, our belief is that this is going to bounce back. Their outlook in the future is much stronger, what they are sharing with us, okay? Basically, the short-term impact on margin is purely a loss of scale, right, largely from a major customer, right?
Now, other things keep the mix keeps moving, some positive, some negative, and so on and so forth, okay? The beauty and cosmetics performance, right, has been stronger and has been better than oral care, right? And this customer is largely oral care, okay? The drop has been largely in oral care, and our understanding is that it is largely because of destocking, right? There is no fundamental loss of business, and therefore, this should bounce back in the foreseeable future.
No, Anand, I get it. I get it. My problem is that sequentially, that revenue drop is not actually a decline. It is still a growth of 0.6%. That does not explain why the margin should contract so much because I can understand one customer moving up and down, but on an aggregate basis, that problem is really not hurting us. That margin mathematics is really something I'm difficult to reconcile.
It is actually kicking. Sanjesh, what happens is that in any business, we plan for cost increases, investments, etc., basically forecasted in the planned revenue. Europe has definitely delivered a softer quarter than what we expected. We have gone ahead or we have continued with the investment that we have planned for, specifically in beauty and cosmetics because Europe remains one of the critical markets for us. That is why, while the overall costs are in control, the natural inflation has come in, and the revenue has not kicked in the way we expected. Is this permanent? No, it is not permanent. The revenue, and we are working with the customers, etc., is likely to improve as we go along. The cost lines, the investments have gone into the ground, right? Hence, the margin will improve.
In terms of margin, this quarter, I would say, is an aberration, and it will now start improving.
Got it. Got it, Deepak. Second on the EAP. Now, again, exactly opposite to Europe, everything has gone right there. What's working in EAP for us?
What is working in EAP? That's a rare question. To say, "Why is something working?" Anyway, let me explain to you. Actually, EAP, China is a country, and our region of EAP is really the leader as far as innovation is concerned, okay? China is leading the world on innovation, and not just in AI or technology, but also in cosmetics and skincare. Two very interesting things have been happening. One is, in oral care, we have seen significant volumes coming from a tube-in-tube format, right? I want to share this with you. A tube-in-tube format is rare for oral care, but basically, there are two cylinders, one inside the other, two concentric cylinders with two different products, right, in each that get dispensed, right, on the toothbrush.
The selling price, obviously, of these, because they have innovation, but they're also over all the bells and whistles in terms of the looks and so on, right, is significant. That has really propped up our oral revenue at a time when volumes in oral grow very modestly, okay? The revenue has been much stronger on the back of this. We have just finished a meeting with the EAP team, and the momentum seems to be continuing as far as this is concerned. The second is, we have said this earlier, that EAP for five years and now the sixth year has been delivering very solid beauty and cosmetics growth on the back of local kings, so local Chinese customers, and on the back of stepped-up innovation, which also brings in higher ASPs, okay? I think EAP is solid from that point of view.
I actually have to tell you this. I think the best is yet to come. Thailand, we have not even started selling from the Thailand plant, right? It is a greenfield operation with a zero base, and we are going to build that as aggressively as we can. I have already spoken about thinking about expansion while the first tubes are coming out, right, from that plant, right? We also think there are lots of opportunities in EAP which are unexploited by EPL till now, right? We are on the hunt for those as well, by the way. I do not think so. EAP, I think, is a fundamental outcome of the opportunity, the strategy, and some of the investment decisions that we have made supported by the right innovation capability.
That's quite clear. Just one last data-keeping question on the effective tax rate. Now we are back to 25%. Should it continue, or have we exhausted all the benefits that were there on the tax rate? How should we look at effective tax rate?
Yeah. So Sanjesh, the quarter-on-quarter tax rate is a function of the country mix as well as the intercompany dividend flow which happens. Last quarter, our effective tax rate was close to 14%. This quarter is close to 25%. On a full-year basis, our tax rate would be in line with the guidance that we have been giving, which is about anywhere between 20%-22%. That is how we should look at it.
It doesn't change right now?
Yeah, that's right. It doesn't change right now.
Got it. Got it. Just one last question, if I may.
Sorry to interrupt, Sanjesh. Please reach out.
That's all right.
To you for more questions. Thank you.
Thanks. Thanks, Anand. Thanks, Deepak and Rama, for taking all my questions.
Thank you. Thank you, Sanjesh.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nikhil from SIMPL. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good afternoon. Thanks for the opportunity. I hope I'm audible.
Yes, of course.
Yeah. Just one question. Sir, it's been two to three years since we started Brazil, and I think we already went through one phase of expansion.
Sorry to interrupt, Nikhil. Your voice is muffled.
Is it audible now?
Yeah. Better. You were a little muffled for a moment, but this is better.
Yeah. So what I was trying to ask is that if you look at Brazil, we've been in the market commercial for the last two, two and a half years. And I think, if I'm not wrong, we've already done one phase of expansion as well. Do you think the market growth can sustain more, or are we saturated in terms of the opportunity which the market was providing?
As far as Brazil is concerned, I can tell you we've only just started. Brazil is the third-largest beauty and cosmetics market in the world, okay? While we've done really well, we're still very small. The headroom for expansion and growth, I mean, infinite seems an absolute word, but it is huge. Brazil will get priority for investment because we also have a very, very good margin profile in Brazil, okay? It is not an easy country to maneuver, but our teams over there, both the people on the ground as well as our regional leadership, right, really understand that country and really understand how to make things work in that country, right? With partnership from our corporate finance teams and so on, we've also weathered the currency uncertainty and so on and so forth.
Actually, we feel we've gone through the learning curve, and this is creating a platform for, I would say, explosive opportunities in Brazil in the future, right? Probably limited by our own imagination more than anything else.
Are we looking for the next phase of CapEx in Brazil, or what's the status there?
Not as we speak today, but all I'll tell you is that the last expansion of CapEx, we only started production three or four months ago from that new line and CapEx. As we see the volumes coming in, we will make sure that we proactively make investment decisions for expansion.
Okay. Thanks. I'll come back.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Manan Madlani from MJK Investment. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity and congratulations on a good set of numbers. My question is on Thailand. You mentioned pretty soon we'll be coming up with a new set of expansion. Is it fair to expect that from Q3 or maybe Q4 onwards we'll be at EBITDA level positive, particularly from that plant?
Sorry, which plant? You mean the Thailand plant?
Yes.
I mean, it's premature, actually, for that question. It is ultimately going to be a very, very good margin plant. Right now, we've just incurred all the setup costs and everything else. Once we hit, this quarter you can assume it's more of setup costs and so on and so forth, right? I don't remember exactly, but will it get margin positive from one or two quarters down the line?
The way we have set up the plant is that the indirect manning cost, which is the supervision cost in the plant, is very limited. It is the EAP leadership team, which is also looking at the plant operations in Thailand because it is only two hours away from our plant in China. Hence, the overall overhead costs are very limited, which means that the break-even point is very small. The plant we are starting is small, and it will get to break-even quickly. The idea is how quickly can we actually expand and explore the potential of the Thailand market. That is what we are focusing on.
Conversely, it is not going to be any kind of a material beta trade on our numbers, essentially.
Okay. Putting all together, the Thailand plant and the Brazil capacity expansion, what would be the peak revenue at the company level we can generate?
No, but we're not getting into specific country-wide volumes.
No, at the country level, I'm asking.
There is only one plant. All I am saying is that in Brazil also, we shared already the CapEx investment, which has been relatively modest in Thailand because we actually have a very creative model of how we have set up that plant in Thailand, and therefore, the CapEx also is very, very limited. In Brazil also, the capacity we have been expanding sequentially based on demand coming in. What is Brazil's contribution to total revenue today? I mean, I do not have that number offhand.
The challenge also is that we operate in 11 countries with 21 plants. At the moment we start going into country-level details, it becomes challenging. But our guidance.
Yeah, I meant.
Our guidance is pretty clear that we will deliver double-digit revenue growth consistently, and that growth is a combination of.
Ladies and gentlemen, the management line got disconnected. Please hold while we get them reconnected. Ladies and gentlemen, the management line has been connected again. Over to you, sir.
Yeah. Apologies, sir. I do not know why this line keeps breaking down and breaking the rhythm. So before, you were completing.
No, sir. I'm only saying that our guidance remains double-digit revenue growth on a sustainable basis. It will be a combination of geographical expansion as well as the organic growth in the current country. That's how we kind of guide for this.
That's another question because I think you had specific country questions, and we aren't really getting details of country-by-country numbers and profitability, huh.
Yes, sir. I understand. I meant to ask at a company level.
At a company level, I mean, I don't have a percentage for you because that, again, is like giving you the country-level performance. But these are growth drivers with zero-base, greenfield operations, countries where we have zero share, right? We are setting up plants, and you've seen how Brazil has helped us. We've already talked in this call about the Americas performance on the back of really an accelerated Brazil performance. Now I'm hoping that you will see EAP performing that way as Thailand ramps up.
Okay. Very good. Just last question on the beauty and cosmetics side. Maybe three to four years.
Listen, you're breaking up a lot. Actually, you're breaking up a lot.
Is it better now?
No, you're again breaking up, actually. I think maybe your line or where. Hello?
Hello. Is it better now?
No, no. There is a problem. I think I'm hearing it.
I'll join back in queue .
Thank you.
Yeah.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nilesh Doshi from Prospero Tree Asset Management LLP. Please go ahead.
Am I audible, sir?
You're audible, but I think there's some problem with maybe our line now. I'm beginning to think because you guys are breaking up a bit. Please go ahead slowly, and I'll try and follow your question.
Sure. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, my question is related to the hello?
Yes, yes. Please go ahead.
Sir, my question is related to the imposition of the tariff and our business. EPL is operating many plants in different countries. Is it easy for EPL to change the location where the country is not affected by the unfavorable changes in the tariff? If the answer is yes, did the company have done such thing in the past or currently?
Absolutely. I think that's a very good question as well. I can tell you that, for instance, we make laminates in India and China. When China laminate duties to the U.S. went up, we shifted laminate production to India. Equally, when China commodity prices are lower, we shift manufacturing to China. We absolutely play the arbitrage as far as sourcing is concerned so that we deliver the best delivered cost to our regions and our countries. Now, very specifically, there is a tariff question which is not as easy to mitigate on the U.S. The good news is the bulk of our value add happens within the U.S. because we have a plant in the U.S., okay?
We are looking at creative solutions of what we can do, either to bring in stuff from other countries, laminates, or even tubes tomorrow, and also work with customers to get pricing. The current real challenge on tariff is the U.S., is the tariff on the imported laminate, right? Nobody knows exactly, but even this morning, there's news that tariff rates are going to temper, right? Hopefully sooner rather than later. In the interim, I just want you to know that we're not sitting quiet. We are actively engaged with our customers to get pricing and actively engaged with other possible partnerships to do creative sourcing, okay? We try our best to mitigate as much as possible any impact of U.S. tariffs.
Okay, sir. Thank you. Thank you, sir. That's all from my side. Thank you. All the best, sir.
Thank you, Nilesh.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Smith Gala from RSPN Ventures. Please go ahead.
Yeah. My question was regarding the employee expenses. Last year, we were maintaining a run rate of INR 200 crore-INR 205 crore. Due to annual increment, it went up to INR 215 crore in Q1 and now to INR 233 crore in Q2. Is it because of the Thailand plant getting commissioned, or what are the reasons behind the increase in employee cost run rate?
The Thailand plant will not be material to our global numbers at this stage, okay? It is not because of a greenfield startup. Now, we will get into the numbers possibly in more detail and address it offline. One of the major structural changes we have made is to ramp up our sales capability in beauty and cosmetics around the world, our frontline selling capabilities, because one of the realizations is that as we get into more value-added, smaller volume customers, you need to go and hunt down B&C sales, B&C opportunities, and that capability is quite different from key account management, which is really good at managing the large global oral customers. This has been a conscious increase in investment of people in sales, and this is something that I have spoken about in past quarterly calls as well, right? That is the major one.
Since you've asked this question, we'll take a look more closely to see if there's any other specific driver, but not to my understanding.
Okay. Sure. So are we planning to add any further sales force then?
I mean, some of this is an ongoing activity. I do not think there is going to be any significant step up, at least immediately, right? Please do recognize that as our ambition continues to grow beauty and cosmetics, not just double-digit, but much higher than just double-digit. As we get into dealing with more fragmented customers with higher innovation demands and higher agility and speed demands, we will need to increase resourcing at some point in time. That resourcing will be good cost because it will generate good revenue for the company and good margin because B&C also is very good as far as ASP is concerned. As long as my view is this, as long as we are increasing cost, which is good cost, right, which is delivering returns, we must absolutely do it.
We need to be ruthless about bad cost, which is cost that doesn't add value to the business. That has been our philosophy.
That was helpful. All the best for the future. Thank you.
Thank you. One last question.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraint, that was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Pratik Tholiya for closing comments. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Yeah. Thank you, Kripalu. On behalf of Systematix Institutional Equities, I would like to thank the participants for logging into this call. Again, I would like to thank the management for giving us this opportunity to host this call. Anand, would you like to make any closing comments?
No, I just want to say that, listen, it has been a privilege for me to interact with you every quarter and to interact with you even beyond that, many one-on-one meetings and so on. I am going to take away just wonderful memories of my time at EPL working with you all. As many of you know, I am not stepping off completely. I will continue on the board, so I will remain a very, very close follower of EPL 's performance. I have no doubt that the future is in very, very good hands with Hemant moving into the saddle on the 1st of January. I am excited to sit by the sidelines and applaud EPL 's continuing performance. Thank you all very much.
Thank you so much, sir.
Thank you, sir. On behalf of Systematix Shares and Stocks Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.