Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the NCC Limited 4Q and FY25 earnings call, hosted by JM Financial Institutional Securities Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Vaibhav Shah from JM Financial Institutional Securities. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you. On behalf of JM Financial, I welcome everybody to the 4Q and FY25 earnings conference call of NCC Limited. We have from the management today: R. S. Raju, Director of Projects, Sanjay Pusarla, Executive Vice President, and Mr. Neeraj Sharma, Head Strategy and Investor Relations. Now I hand over the call to the management for opening remarks, after which we can do the Q&A session. Over to you, sir.
Thank you very much, Vaibhav. Very good morning, everyone. This is Neeraj. At the very outset, I thank each of you for taking out time to attend this interactive meeting. I have with me my colleagues, Mr. R. S. Raju, Director of Projects, and Mr. Sanjay Pusarla, CFO. Yesterday, we have declared our audited financial results for the fourth quarter and for the financial year 2024-25. Hope you had an opportunity to download and study the results and the investors' presentation uploaded on our website and shared with the stock exchanges. Before I begin this interactive meeting, I will read out a very brief disclaimer. You may read a detailed disclaimer mentioned, highlighted in our investors' presentation.
This presentation may contain certain forward-looking statements concerning NCC's future business prospects and business profitability, which are subject to a number of risks and uncertainties, and the actual results could materially differ from those in such forward-looking statements. End of the disclaimer. This interaction is broadly divided into three parts. In the first part, I will talk about a brief overview of the business environment, our prospects, and also an update on the guidance. In the second part, our CFO will give a brief about the financial performance of the company for the fourth quarter and for the financial year 2025. In the third and last part, we will attempt to answer all your questions and clarifications. We are happy to share with you the fact that we have achieved the revised guidance shared with you in the last earnings call.
We are sitting at the highest-ever order book of INR 71,568 crore, and in the financial year FY25, we have booked orders worth INR 32,888 crore, which is about 50% more than the upper band of our guidance shared with you. The revenue on a standalone basis increased by 5%, which is in line with the guidance that we have shared with the street. The EBITDA margin was 9.1%, which is closely in line with the guidance that we have shared with you. For the FY26, that is the current financial year, we are seeing a healthy pipeline of future projects. We have a prospective pipeline of about INR 2.55 lakh crore, and we are pleased to share with you a guidance of INR 22,000-INR 25,000 crore for the order inflow. I repeat, the order inflow guidance for the FY26 is INR 22,000-INR 25,000 crore.
The revenue growth is 10% and EBITDA margin between 9%-9.25%. Now, I will very briefly touch upon a few of our large divisions. In our Buildings and Transportation Division, we continue to see good traction and a healthy pipeline of projects. We have an order book of ₹22,440 crore. I repeat, ₹22,440 crore in the buildings division, which is about 31% of our total order book. In the transportation division, we have an order book of ₹17,929 crore, which is about 25% of our total order book. The third large division that we have is Electrical (T&D) Division. Order book as of end of March is ₹16,666 crore. Let me repeat, ₹16,666 crore as of 31st March, which is about 23% of our order book. The order book in the Irrigation Division is ₹4,189 crore. I repeat, ₹4,189 crore, which is about 6% of our order book.
In our Water Division, we have an order book of INR 4,782 crore, which is 7% of our order book. Similarly, the order book in our Mining Division is INR 5,555 crore, which is about 8% of our total order book. Now, I will hand over to our CFO with a request to cover the detailed financial performance of the company. Over to you, Mr. Pusarla.
Good morning, everyone. This is Sanjay Pusarla, CFO from NCC Limited. I am pleased to announce the financial results for Q4 of FY25 and also for the year ending March 2025. My announcement will be in the order of order book, revenue, profitability, debt payment, and some of the important balance sheet items. The order book. Our order book stands at INR 71,568 crore as of the end of March 2025. As you are aware, the order book at the beginning of the year stood at INR 60,437 crore, and orders received during the 12-month period is INR 32,888 crore, which is the highest orders we ever received in a financial year. And in Q4, we received orders around INR 19,280 crore. After execution of INR 21,756 crore of work during the 12 months, the order book stands at INR 71,568 crore.
Coming to the revenues, standalone, turnover reported in Q4 is ₹5,376 crore as against turnover of ₹5,446 crore in the previous year. During the 12 months, turnover is ₹19,205 crore as against ₹18,314 crore, which is reported in the previous 12 months. This will record a 5% growth over the previous year. Coming to the standalone, turnover reported in Q4 is ₹6,131 crore against the turnover of ₹6,485 crore in the previous year. During the 12 months, the turnover is ₹22,199 crore as against ₹20,845 crore, showing a growth of around 7%. Coming to the profitability, standalone, we achieved EBITDA margin of 9.21% for Q4 as against 9.36% of the corresponding quarter of the previous year. And for the 12 months of the financial year 25, we achieved EBITDA of 9.09% as against 9% in 12 months of the previous year.
PBT we achieved 6.2%, and PAT we achieved 3.9%, 94% in the current quarter, that is Q4, as against PBT of 6.29% and PAT of 3.41% of the corresponding period. Coming to the consolidated profitability, we achieved EBITDA of 9.07% and PBT of 5.95% and PAT of 4.28% in the current quarter, that is Q4, as against EBITDA of 8.49%, PBT of 5.97%, and PAT of 3.66%. Coming to the debt moment, the debt at the beginning of the year stood at INR 1,005 crore, and net debt after cash and cash equivalent standing at INR 517 crore. At the end of quarter four, it stood at INR 1,484 crore and net debt of INR 710 crore. And at the end of quarter three, the same debt was INR 2,415 crore and net debt was INR 2,344 crore. That means the net debt from Q3 ending to Q4 is reduced from INR 2,344 crore to INR 710 crore.
There is a decrease in debt by ₹931 crore. The debt equity ratio stands at 0.2% at the end of Q4, as against 0.33% at the end of Q3, and 0.15% at the end of March 24. Working capital, excluding cash and margin money deposits, at the end of Q4, it stands at ₹4,374 crore, which is 17% of the turnover. In terms of working capital days, it counts for 77 days. Debtors, that is receivables, outstanding at the end of Q4 has reduced from ₹3,142 crore to ₹3,098 crore, and the number of days also decreased from 74 days to 65 days in the current quarter. Unbilled revenue stands at ₹5,937 crore, which is 31% for Q4, as against ₹6,151 crore, which is 33% at Q3 ending.
Coming to the mobilization advances, the mobilization advances stood at INR 2,098 crore, as against INR 1,957 crore in Q4, increased by INR 120 crore. It is standing at 11% of the turnover. Of these mobilization advances, 79% are interest-bearing and 21% are interest-free. The average interest rate works out to 9.52% on these mobilization advances, which are interest-bearing. Coming to the CapEx, we have incurred a CapEx of INR 305 crore in the current financial year, as against the budgeted CapEx of INR 250 crore for the regular projects. So, as far as the dividend is concerned, this year, it was decided to declare a dividend of 110%, which will be INR 2.20 per share. Total amount of outflow will be INR 139 crore on this account. And coming to the investor-related ratios, the ROS stands at 14.61%, as against 14.04% at the financial year 2024 end.
EPS stands at INR 12.10, as at the end of Q4, against 10.10 in the last year. I think with this, I end my presentation. We can invite for the questions.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch-tone phone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We take the first question from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital. Please go ahead.
Thank you, sir. Sir, the first question is on the revenue. So, though we have achieved our revised guidance for FY25, 5% growth, but compared to the original where we were looking at 15%, and now we are seeing a 10% growth in FY26, don't you think that this is on the lower side given the kind of the order inflow that we have received, which is even higher than what we were looking at in FY25?
Mr. Shah, good morning.
Good morning, sir.
I think you are absolutely right. The last year, we had guided the market for about 15% growth, but we have been able to deliver only 5% growth, right? So when we talk about 10% growth for FY26, there is a handsome growth, right? Last year, we have grown at 5% in that range, and now we are talking about 10%. So that's a growth. Now, I mean, the latest, I mean, I will also try to dig a bit deeper. This is also a reflection on the ability of our clients to mobilize, to make the payments on time. This is a statement also on the uncertain environment that we are operating in. Primarily, this is dependent on the timely payments. It is not only about the execution. At the same time, we have to be cognizant of the fact that how much working capital we are committing.
So this is also a reflection on the ability of our clients to mobilize, make timely payments. So this is the reason we have shared this guidance with you. Should there be any change going forward, we would be very happy to come to you and update you.
Got it. Second, sir, this order inflow of INR 22,000-INR 25,000 crore that we are looking at in FY26, if you can clarify, I think last time we were having INR 8,000-INR 10,000 crore as L1 orders. So how much L1 do we right now have? And if it is, does this include the INR 22,000-INR 25,000 crore include the L1, or are we looking at the fresh INR 22,000-INR 25,000 crore?
See, your question has two parts. Firstly, the sum of the L1s that we had talked about in the past got converted in firm orders, and this is something that is reflective in our performance of INR 32,888 crore order book. Some of those L1 projects, we hope, will get converted in the coming quarters. As of now, we have an L1 project of about INR 7,000-INR 8,000 crore.
So INR 22,000-INR 25,000 crore includes the L1 of INR 7,000-INR 8,000 crore?
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Okay. Okay. Got it.
Yeah.
Yes, sir.
Is that at any point of time, if you see, there will be L1 project, and there will be conversion from L1 to the order. It is a cycle. Okay? It is not that L1 projects of the previous year will be taken in the last year order book and current year. It is a cycle. It comes to L1. Sometimes it gets matured into an order. Sometimes it doesn't get matured into an order. It is a cycle. It happens every time.
Got it. Sir, a couple of data points. Can you share the standalone order inflow for FY25 and retention money and for CapEx for FY26?
See, the order inflow for standalone, again, ₹32,888; the order inflow for standalone is ₹29,588 crore. Okay? And you asked for what else?
Retention money and CapEx for FY26.
Yeah. Retention money as on 31st March 2025 is INR 1,870 crore, as against INR 1,757 of the corresponding previous year. Sorry, INR 1,505 of the corresponding previous year. And CapEx for FY26 is at INR 750 crore. Yeah.
Yeah. And lastly, the loans and advances and investment in subsidiaries and associates.
One second. So investment is ₹1,065 crore, as against ₹1,033 crore. And the loans is ₹452 crore, as against ₹354 crore.
Okay. Thank you, sir, and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Good morning, sir, and thanks for the opportunity. My first question is, again, I'm going back to the revenue growth guidance. I think it looks a bit low. So does it mean that there are too many slow-moving orders in the book as of now? And is it the fact that the order which you received in the Q4, especially BS and the Phase II contract, what is the duration of the execution?
Three years.
Three years.
Three years is the CapEx time. The time to complete the project is three years.
And for any kind of slow-moving orders in the book, sir?
It is not a question of slow-moving orders for the guidance at 10%. It is dependent, as Mr. Neeraj said earlier, it is dependent on how the government takes these infrastructure segments and how the payments are going to come and how the clients are going to cooperate in the case of execution. And also, the projects which have come will have a little gestation period. It's not that immediately it gets converted after the order is received. It will have a little gestation period. Considering all those things, and we have also seen what happened in the previous year in the Jal Jeevan Mission project, so considering all these things, we gave the guidance of 10%.
Understood, sir. The second question is, sir, what is the Jal Jeevan Mission order book right now? And are you seeing any improvement in execution and payment?
Payments are a little getting delayed, but otherwise, the order book for Jal Jeevan Mission, about two-thirds of the Jal Jeevan projects were completed. One-third of the projects are still pending. You are aware of that for the last seven, eight months, there is a slow progress because of the delay in the payments by the client, that is, Jal Jeevan payments by the central government particularly.
Okay. Are you seeing that?
Yes. We received some part payment in the last two, three months, but still about INR 1,000 crore is yet to receive.
₹1,500.
1,500 crore yet to receive from the Jal Jeevan projects. The order book balance as on date is INR 4,300 crore.
Understood. That's very helpful, sir. My last question, sir, how is the traction in smart meter execution? Have we achieved any financial closure? If not, when do you think they'll achieve the financial closure? And any guidance on the order execution in FY26 of the orders?
In financial closure for smart meters in the case of Bihar, that is already achieved in the last year itself, and we have started running the loan. In the case of Marathwada, the financial closure yet to happen. We have received the term sheet from the lenders. We are yet to go for the financial closure. And as you are aware, these projects in Maharashtra, they were slow-moving in the last year, but now we have got all the clearances to execute them, and we are showing good progress in these projects, expecting a good turnover in the current year.
Understood, sir. Thank you, and very good luck. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Prithviraj from Unifi Capital. Please go ahead.
Sir, I just have a couple of questions. The first one is on the Maharashtra projects. Obviously, in the last couple of quarters, we have seen a delay with respect to execution. How is the activity now? Are we seeing any uptick with respect to execution and the payments from the Maharashtra side?
Yes. In the case of Maharashtra projects, we have seen we have got even the instructions even from the government also that we can go ahead with the pace of the projects, increasing the pace of the project execution, and we have been doing it, and all the tests, everything have been completed. Now, we have got a very good green signal from the government also, from the client also, to go aggressively on these projects.
Okay. The second one is on the Andhra Pradesh State Capital projects. We obviously received a couple of projects in the last few months. Is there any more activity that is happening there and any more pending orders that you are expecting, or everything is done from the State Capital side?
From the State Capital, you are aware that we have received a good number of orders for the infrastructure development, also for construction of some residential blocks, and also the High Court also, so these are the orders which we have received. About INR 9,000-INR 9,500 crore orders are on hand from the capital city, and as we see that the Chief Minister of Andhra Pradesh is announcing every day some of the other projects that he is announcing, but we do not know how much more projects that will be announced in the near future, but as of now, we have projects about INR 9,000-INR 9,500 crore, and the work and execution at these sites is in good progress, as we can see from the social media.
We also feel the same thing from the execution from our teams also, that there is a lot of demand from the clients to execute the projects at a very fast pace.
Okay. And final question on the debt number. So what's the target for the end of the year? Do we expect a significant reduction in the debt number?
Yes, so now, current year, you're seeing the order is closed at about ₹1,400 crore so current year, and next year, about 10% growth shown. At the same time, we need to invest in the smart meter projects, smart meter projects. We expect that debt stands around that one with an increase of ₹300-₹400 crore above the ₹1,400 crore.
Okay. That's all from my side, sir. Thanks.
Thank you.
Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Sarvesh Gupta from Maximal Capital. Please go ahead.
Good morning, sir, and thank you for giving me the opportunity. Sir, first question is basically on the transportation and water verticals. So I think, especially in transportation, we have seen that new orders have been a little bit slow to come by in the last five, six quarters. So how are we seeing this space now, and are you seeing any green shoots in terms of new order inflows, especially given the fact that last many quarters we have not seen anything? And on the water side, I wanted to understand, excluding Jal Jeevan, are you seeing some state government projects, etc., which could be meaningful for the order inflows?
Thank you, Mr. Gupta. As you are aware, most of the projects that were awarded in the last four, five years in the water space were primarily from this Jal Jeevan Mission, and as of last month, I mean, let me give you a little overview of this scheme. The scheme was announced in the year 2019. The outlay from the central government was more than INR 360,000 crore, and they attempted to provide potable water connection to all the households. About 80% of the target has already been achieved, so what remains to be provided potable water connection is about 20% of the households, so this is the update. This is the update on the Jal Jeevan Mission, and as you are aware, my colleague has already highlighted that there has been some slow movement in Jal Jeevan Mission projects across the companies.
I mean, everybody who has been working in this space had faced payment delays, these kind of issues. So this is the update on this space as we speak. But going forward, once the households are given potable water connection, naturally, this will lead to a lot of wastewater treatment plants, STP kind of projects. So we are quite hopeful that going forward, going forward, these two sub-verticals should see some traction.
Sir, on the transportation road space?
Transportation, we have a, I mean, healthy order book. We have been able to bag a good number of projects in the transportation. I mean, if we really talk about 25% of our total order book is from this transportation division. In terms of value, it is INR 17,929 crore. So it is already about one-fourth of our total order book, and we believe that we will see a good number of projects coming up for bidding in the transportation segment.
At an industry level, I think generally people have not got much of orders. So I think, are your orders more related to the state government side rather than NHAI and MoRTH?
The awards that we have got are from a variety of the projects. In most of the projects, for example, when we talk about the metro projects, the state government and the central government, both partner with each other. NHAI, unfortunately, we have not been very successful in the NHAI projects in the past.
Okay. Okay. And sir, finally, on the guidance, so I think this question was asked before also, but I think with the INR 72,000 crore sort of an order book plus an order inflow of maybe INR 20,000-INR 25,000 crore, from that bucket, if we are executing only around INR 25,000 crore, then it becomes like a very small sort of a ratio of order execution versus the order book. So, I mean, if you can give us some more color as to what are you seeing from the client side, are they not sort of, after giving the orders, they are not sort of proceeding to the next steps, including the central government-related orders, or are we anticipating any other procedural delays? Why should the order execution be so low compared to our large order book? Hello?
The management's line seems to have disconnected. Please wait while we rejoin them. The management line has been reconnected.
Hello?
Until what part was I audible?
Yeah.
The first point that I wanted to share with you was the ability to execute the project. I mean, having the required number of people, machinery, everything to execute the project. So this we do have. The second important part is whenever a project is announced, the client should make us available all the land which is required to execute, all the permissions, all the drawing approvals. So when this link is missing, there is little that we could do. So unfortunately, this is something that is going to impact our execution. The third important point is the ability of the clients to make payments, certify bills on time, make payments on time. So unless those things are in place, we will not be able to really execute from a larger share from our order book.
The fourth important thing that we need to keep in mind is we have been able to bag a lot of projects in the last quarter, that is, fourth quarter. It takes about three, four months' time to mobilize the project, get the land, get all the ROWs in place. There is a delay in the award of a project and the billing cycle really to start. I think these are the four important points that I wish to bring to your attention.
Thank you, sir. And on the order inflows also, I think we have guided for a lower order inflow compared to what we have received this year. So give me color on that, sir.
I think most, I mean, my colleague has already touched upon this capital city project. So we were, fortunately, most of these capital city projects, if not all, got converted in the Q4 of the last financial year. So we expect to see some movement, some new projects that might come up for bidding in the capital city. So that is the reason, or you could say that the project that we should have ideally bagged in FY26, we have been able to bag in FY25. So if you really add these two numbers, they look very attractive, right?
Yes. How much is Andhra, by the way, sir, of your overall order book?
It's somewhere around INR 9,500. INR 8,900.
₹9,500.
Yeah.
Okay. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Vaibhav Shah from JM Financial Limited. Please go ahead.
Yeah. So you mentioned the CapEx number at INR 750 crores for FY27. So is it at stand-alone level?
It's 26, 26.
So it is for stand-alone or FY26?
Yes. 6 is ₹750 crores.
For stand-alone or consolidate?
[crosstalk] Yes. Yes, please. Stand-alone.
So why is it so high the number versus the last year's number? So are we including smart meter CapEx as well?
It was somewhere around ₹305 crores. This year, we are expecting the TBM, which will be used for a tunneling project in Mumbai. That is expected to come this year. Okay? That itself is around ₹300 crores. So the rest of the money is expected to be invested in other projects, CapEx.
Okay, and sir, what is the status of the GMLR project?
GMLR project, they have got all the clearances. They have started building the approach roads. They have also started building the facilities for the casting yard and also started landing station also for the TBM. And they have also started for the cut-and-cover portion of the project. Okay? So these are the things which are happening now. It is expected that TBM machines can arrive anytime, maybe in the next one month, one and a half month. And thereafter, they should assemble them and put them in place at the landing station and start the work. You see the present status.
Okay. And sir, TBM investment will be done from stand-alone books?
Could you repeat your question, Mr. Vaibhav Shah?
Yeah. TBM investment of INR 300 crores, that will be done from the stand-alone books?
Yes. It will be done at the stand-alone books. Both the partners are buying one TBM, and they are deploying those TBMs from the owner's side.
Owner's share is INR 300 crores?
Yeah. Approximately.
Okay. And sir, secondly, what investments are we planning to do in the smart meter projects for 26 and 27?
About ₹280 crores is the total investment that needs to be made. We are expecting to do around ₹130 crores by Q2. Balance investments depends on the financial closure. It needs to be done.
We are planning to bring some partner with us. INR 280 will be entirely done by us, or we are still looking out for a partner?
At the moment, it is only the investment from NCCL, and we are on the lookout for the partners. We are scouting for them.
Okay. Sir, what will be the outstanding number for the receivables from AP? Last time, it was around INR 400 crores.
No. It was ₹147 crores last time. Okay? Capital city projects. Out of that ₹147 crores, we received some, and the outstanding at the moment is ₹110 crores for the capital city projects where there was an issue.
Any running projects?
Running projects, we are getting the money realization on time. And basic realization only, the execution is happening. There is no worry on the running projects.
What will be the number? Last time, it was around ₹250 crores as of December.
I think around INR 220 crores.
Okay. And sir, on the margin side, do we expect improvement in FY27, while it should be around INR 9.25 for 26?
It's a too long period to predict today. Difficult, really, to talk about FY27 margin. I mean, in the next year, when we finalize the budget for FY27, we should be in a position to commit a number to you. I think this is a little far away.
Sir, but given the mix of the backlog on the new orders we have received, are we hopeful for an improvement on a YOY basis or?
Yes. We are looking for improvement at the bottom line, and about the EBITDA margin level, it depends upon the mix of the projects. So at this moment, the larger size projects what we taken up for BSNL, including O&M, about INR 10,000-INR 11,000 crore project. The projects which have the more machinery-oriented generally reports the higher margins as a result to higher EBITDA margin rise. But in case of NCC, the mix of the projects contains not much of machinery-oriented projects. As a result, our EBITDA margin and gross margin level generally low compared to the industry levels. So in the current coming two years, our mix of the projects, particularly the BSNL projects with INR 10,000 crore, there is not any much CapEx investment. And also, we do not have a major portfolio of the roads. Generally, the roads and the mining industry have more machinery we use.
Generally, they give margins, and there is a chance of increasing the EBITDA margins. So going forward in the next two years, we expect an improvement at the bottom line but not at the EBITDA levels.
Okay. Thank you, sir. Those were my questions.
Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Anupam Gupta from IIFL Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity, sir. So firstly, on the order book, so like BharatNet, I think, has almost like 50% which is the O&M portion of the order. So of the total INR 71,000 crore order book, how much is the O&M order book which gets executed over a longer period of time rather than the next three years?
Whatever O&M execution to be done after the CapEx portion that was not included in the order book, generally what we do is that what we can execute in the next three years, that only will be considered in the order book. Out of that, around INR 7,127 crores, I think we have taken in the current order book. Balance value of the order book is still lying in the order book. Mr. Gupta, same for the smart meters also. If you recall, we had a discussion about smart meters. We have not considered O&M in our order book. O&M, we only take into our order book once the EPC part, that is, the construction part, is done.
Okay. Understood, sir. And then going by your earlier commentary on the GMLR project plus the AP project, and also given the fact that a lot of orders came in the fourth quarter, which you said will ramp up over the second half possibly of this year, should FY27 we have much stronger growth than the 10% which we are doing in FY26 because order book plus the inflows which we'll get in this year, all of that will support that?
So Gupta, hopefully, yes. But give us some time. Give us some time. It's a changing, it's a dynamic world. So once we have a better visibility, better assessment, we should be able to update you.
Okay. Just one last question. What is the status of the Vizag land receipts?
In the case of Vizag land, whatever investment we have made, it is completely received back and equity. Whatever equity is there, it is received and whatever loan is there, out of the loan also, we received about INR 15 crores in the current year. Expect to receive about INR 120 crores in the next year. Balance thereafter.
What is the total balance left, sir?
It's including interest about INR 375 crores.
Okay. Fine. That's all from my side, sir. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Parvez Qazi from Nuvama Group. Please go ahead.
Hi. Good morning and thanks for taking my question. So a couple of questions from my side. Sir, did I get it correct that of the total INR 10,800 crore BSNL order, as of now, we have included only about INR 7,100 crore in our order book?
Correct. Yes.
Sure.
That's right.
Sure. Thank you. The second question was, what would have been our total execution or construction revenues in FY25, including the work that we would have done in our mining projects in our SPV?
The overall revenue of INR 21,756 crores. That is a construction business.
Sure, sir. And lastly, I mean, you mentioned that I think in Andhra capital city, we have about INR 9,000 crore of orders currently. So of these orders, how much quantum would we have received in FY25?
Almost all the orders were received in FY25 last quarter. A small portion may be ₹600-₹700 crores we received in the April month.
Okay. And of the L1 orders that we have, does that also include some portion from the capital city projects?
No. No, no, no. Not for the capital city project. This is from all the states put together.
Sure. And lastly, I mean, did we mention that there are more projects coming up for bidding in the capital city project? Or I mean, just wanted to get that clear.
We understand that a lot of projects have already been awarded, and that is reflective in the orders that we have already bagged in the last quarter, but at the end of the day, it's the call of the government. We understand that a few projects might also come up for bidding, let's say that come up for bidding this year as well, but we have to wait and watch.
Sure, sir. Thanks and all the best, Mr. Shah.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Anupam Shah from Elara Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. Thank you. Sir, what is the gross debt on the stand-alone level as of now?
₹1,484.
Sorry. ₹1,400?
84.
Okay. And do we expect finance expenses to go down because that has not gone down? That is why.
Yeah. We expect to take some steps like arranging some CPs and other things. Okay? And we are also trying to use the other projects like TReDS and purchase invoice accounting. We are hopeful that it may bring some savings in the current year.
Okay. Any quantum? How much are you expecting?
We will not be able to estimate at the moment because we need to even explore that. How can we convert the people who are on other modes of payment to these modes of payment? It depends on how the sellers will take it. The reason here is one of the reason for increase in the debt in the year 2024, 2025. Most of the mobilization loans earlier were easy to take from the clients. Generally, the interest cost is also lower than the 9% of what the banks are lending. But in the recent past, we observed that the cost of the mobilization advance sometimes exceeding 12%. Wherever the cost of the mobilization advance is more than 11% or 12%, we are not availing that mobilization advance. We are dropping that one.
Instead of using mobilization advance from the clients, we are relying on the bank's loans where we are getting around 9-9.3%. That is one of the reason for, again, to increase in the debt in the year 2024, 2025, and also in the coming years. The debt is slowly rising about ₹200-₹300 crores every year. It depends upon how the mobilization advance, how the terms and conditions they stipulate in the tender documents. But most of the clients, putting the interest clause, that is also the clause is also more than the bank interest. That is discouraging us to take the mobilization advance. That is the reason the debt, gross debt, is appearing on the high side. To give you more color on this, earlier in 2023, the interest-bearing advances were only 53%.
As we pass and now at the end of FY 2025, the interest-bearing advances are 79%. That is the main reason why the debt is being opted than the interest mobilization advance. And the mobilization advances today, they carry interest. And the costing for the mobilization advance at the end of the day is much higher than what we are getting from the lenders.
Got it. And, sir, we are also seeing increase in exposure to subsidiaries. I mean, this had gone down earlier, but now again increase. And we've got some impairment also done during the quarter in some subsidiary. We're looking at merging NCC Infra with the parent. I mean, what are we trying to do in the subsidiaries?
Two things, madam. One is the impairment is on account of Oman subsidiary at Oman. Okay? So that we feel that we may not be able to realize whatever we have invested. So we have created an impairment of that. And the second thing is that the investment is going to be there. Now we have started investing in the smart meter projects. We have invested about INR 70 crores in the smart meter projects. And we also have another LLP which we have started for producing some specialized concrete girders. So there also we started.
Okay. Okay. Fine, and sir, lastly, in the BSNL project, how much would be the bought-out component?
I am so sorry to interrupt you. We have lost the management line. I'll reconnect them. Just a moment.
Sure.
The management line has been reconnected. Ma'am, please go ahead.
Yeah. I was asking, sir, how much is the bought-out component in the recent BSNL order?
I'm sure about it. We need to evaluate it, madam. Madam, we have the Ms. Shah, Ms. Anupam Shah.
Yeah. Yes, sir. Yes.
We have just recently bagged this BSNL project. So we will have to do a thorough assessment of the project. Then only we shall be in a position to really determine how much is the bought-out component. And then we should be in a position to share that same with you.
Done. I'll take this up later with you then. Okay. Thank you so much. I wish you all the best.
Thank you. Thanks.
Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Parth Thakkar from JM Financial. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, can you help me with the PAC number for the Pachwara SPV for FY25?
Hello. Repeat me your question.
The profit for Pachwara for FY25 full year?
104.
104.
87%. One second. PBT is INR 104 crores.
No, no. Sir, I'm asking profit after tax.
78.
78 crores. Okay. And can you also repeat the total investment in smart meters for FY26 and FY27?
We have already explained it before. It was INR 280 crores the total investment that need to be made.
So can you help me with the how much in FY26 and how much in FY27?
FY26.
By Q2, we need to invest about INR 130 crore and balance it will be decided based on the progress and financial closure of the other project. Okay. And also, sir, what led to the working capital improvement in 4Q25? Was it largely driven through the improvement in JJM payments or was there any other factor?
So it was the GMLR payment. We are expecting that to come now.
Okay. Thank you, sir. That's all from my side.
Yeah.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Janam Jain from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Good morning, management. Sir, my first question is, as we have given the initial commentary of INR 2.55 crores of tender pipeline, how's the outlook on the building segment side? And which other major key projects which we expect to be tendered out in this year?
See, I mean, we don't really talk about the breakup division-wise of the prospective pipeline. When we talk about a prospective future pipeline of projects, what this essentially means is these are the projects which have been announced by the respective client, central government, state government, different PSUs. Some kind of approval has been given. So we compile this information across all our lines of businesses. So we really don't share the breakup of this prospective pipeline of projects, the division-wise.
All right, sir. And, sir, what is the amount of loan given to subcontractors as of March 25?
You were asking about subcontractors.
No, no loan. But we don't give any loan.
Give any loans to the subcontractors. It will be only a mobilization advance as a part of the work.
All right, sir. Sir, what is the reason for higher other income which we had in FY25? I mean, it's 51% YYI growth and yeah.
Other income. Other sale of property. The other income in FY25, one is on the dividend, which is almost like 44 crores that has come from Pachwara. The other one is there was sale of flats in Bengaluru. That is also part of the other income.
Okay, sir. All right, then I'm taking my question. Thank you so much.
Yeah.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Sajit Kapoor from Kapoor & Company. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Namaskar, sir. And thank you to the team for very detailed interaction, sir. Just a second, sir. Namaskar, sir.
Kapoor, sir.
Namaskar, sir. Thank you, S ir.
Sir, firstly, on this coal part, sir, what are we anticipating in terms of the contribution from the JV and the milestones for which we are expecting any ramp-up in the output going ahead? If you could just give some color there, sir. What is called? Okay. What else? The Pachwara coal mining projects where we are executing along with the other joint venture partner. Almost we have achieved the rated capacity for 15 million tons per annum. Already we achieved. And at this moment, we are in a position to produce more than 15 million tons in a year that we are trying to increase. And the production side capabilities are there. And the West Bengal Power Development Corporation Limited, they have the environment clearance for 15 million tons per year.
They are trying to enhance that 15 million tons to some 18 million tons and thereafter to some other things based on the requirement, the demand for the coal they have for their power projects, and in the meantime, we are building up our capacities, and also, sometimes we are achieving more than 15 million tons in some months also, which establishing our capacity to produce more than 15 million tons. So once the West Bengal Power Development Corporation, that is the client, receives that environmental clearance for more than 15 million tons, so we are able to produce that one. At this moment, the other milestones to fulfill the R&R activity. First village, the R&R activity we have completed. And accordingly, the land of that village is taken over to the project, and the second village is in progress.
And the West Bengal already awarded the civil work to build the houses for the villages of the second village. That also, that contract also, we have taken. So we are executing that one in a period of six to nine months. We are able to complete that one. That village also, they shift to the new houses. So as of this moment, on work front is available to do the 15 million tons or more than 15 million tons, whatever West Bengal requires for that one. And the other one is the railway side. That is the biggest issue for the project. And West Bengal Power Development Corporation issued at the time of tender in a five-year period. They bring the CHP, the coal handling plant of the railway siding, to the pit mouth. But that work still is on paper.
So far, the contract is not awarded to lay the railway line from that has to come from 50 km to the pit mouth. At this moment, still we are doing the coal transport by road. But for which we developed the alternative railway sidings apart from the existing railway, the railway line what the original is given. So by developing other two alternative sidings. And now at this moment, we are transporting through three routes and distributed the density to three routes. And at this moment, coal transportation also going and meeting the requirement of the 15 million tons. That is a brief about that coal mining project.
Right. And sir, we have also seen that with Ken-Betwa project, DPR has also been floated. So any update on the same in terms of?
Yes. The Ken-Betwa project, we have bid it, and already the division has started the work now in the survey work and mobilizing the resources, establishing that site camp and mobilizing the required equipment, and all these things are going on, and at this moment, work as per schedule and taking some clearances permissions are going on, and the division has the required equipment also from the division also planning to take some of the equipment from the Mining Division to carry out the initial work required for the project. So some more update will come after 3-4 months. Some clarity or visibility will come in another 3-4 months' time, and moreover, coming monsoon season is there, and prior to monsoon, there won't be any good progress of physical work happens except establishing the resources and bringing the resources to the end of the project level.
From September onwards, the real physical work will move.
So as of now, the order book, sir, we might just.
I'm so sorry to interrupt.
Yeah, yeah. Ma'am, I'm just only concluding, ma'am. No question. Sir, as per the current order book status, do we have a portion of the Ken-Betwa or it is only the preparatory work that is going on currently?
No. Ken-Betwa is a part of the order book.
Can you quantify the amount, sir?
That is around INR 3,000 crores. Around INR 4,000 crores is there. That is the part of the order book we want to explain. 71,000 in that one. INR 4,000 crores is there.
Okay, sir. Thank you for all the detailed answers, sir. And we hope for better execution with you, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. We take the last question from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital. Please go ahead.
Thank you, sir, for the opportunity again. Sir, just to understand on the finance cost of this year, FY25, around INR 650-653 crore. So whatever we have said in terms of the mobilization advance, also having the interest-bearing. So broadly, is it fair to say this number more or less will remain the same in FY26 also?
No. Some more increase, about the 10% increase we have given the top line. The interest cost may go by another 4%-5%.
Got it. Got it. And sir, is it possible to give a break-up of order inflow and the execution?
Sector-wise.
Mr. Shah?
Raju, at the very outset, in the introductory remarks, I have already talked about broadly the order book in the important divisions. Would that be the recording?
Yeah. Yeah. No, no. I'm talking about the order inflow. So what we have received, can we give a segment-wise breakup and possibly the Q4 FY25 revenue segment-wise?
You have that? One second, Shravan.
Yes, sir.
40%, 20%, 15%. But it.
I have already given.
They have been asking. Whatever orders we have received, 32,882 crores.
Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Yeah. Yeah. Mr. Shah. Mr. Shah.
Yes, sir.
The broad contribution from different divisions of the order book I have already shared. Now I will talk about the breakup of the division-wise orders. For example, this total INR 32,888 crores that we have had, about 26% is from the buildings. I repeat, 26% from the buildings.
Yes.
The number is INR 8,447 crores.
Okay.
The second largest contribution is from transportation division, which is 24%. The value is INR 7,037 crores.
Okay.
The third large contribution is from electrical T&D, which is again 24%. The value is INR 8,031 crores. The fourth large contribution is from the Irrigation Division, which is 13%. The value is INR 4,138 crores.
Okay.
The last one is from the Water Division, which is 3%, INR 1,102 crores. That's all. And this total number will, of course, include the change in scope of various projects that we have in our order book.
True. True. And nothing is in mining in terms of the entire order inflow that we have received in FY25?
We have made INR 3,338 crores, 10%.
Got it. Got it. Okay and possible for Q4 FY25 revenue segment-wise breakup, sir?
I don't have the numbers ready, Shravan. Maybe offline, we can try to get that with you.
No issues, sir. No issues. Thank you, sir, and all the best.
Thank you. Thanks.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Thank you very much for your enthusiastic participation in this interactive meeting. In the investors' presentation that we have uploaded on our website and also shared with the stock exchanges, we have given one email ID. Should you have any questions post this call, you can get in touch with us. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks. Thank you so much.
On behalf of JM Financial Institutional Securities Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.