Torrent Pharmaceuticals Limited (BOM:500420)
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Q2 23/24

Oct 23, 2023

Operator

Good day, and Welcome to the Q2 FY 2024 earnings conference call of Torrent Pharma. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Sudhir Menon, Chief Financial Officer and Executive Director of Finance. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Sudhir Menon
CFO and Executive Director of Finance, Torrent Pharmaceuticals

Thank you. Good evening to all of you, and welcome to the second quarter earnings call for FY 2024. I'm pleased to share the details of our strong performance this quarter across all our focus markets. The branded business contributed to 73% of the overall revenue base this quarter and has grown by 18%. Germany, with incremental tender wins over the last three quarters, has helped in registering a constant currency high single-digit growth. U.S., we continue to take measures to enhance the cost efficiency in the base business, while we await new product approvals to start flowing in the future quarters, and this should start adding positively to the overall performance of the company going forward. During the year, we have discontinued low-margin products in the U.S. and streamlined our back-end processes, optimized resources in order to enhance the operational effectiveness.

Further, we've capitalized the oral oncology facility this quarter in July and have commercialized one product in the U.S. In terms of key financial performance highlights for quarter two, revenues were INR 2,660 crores, up by 16% compared to the previous year's same quarter. Operating EBITDA for the quarter is INR 825 crores. Operating EBITDA margin stands at 31%, registering a growth of 22%. Leverage is now at 1.16x, and we expect by March 2024, it should be below 1x. I would request Aman to present the performance of India business now.

Aman Mehta
Whole-Time Director, Torrent Pharmaceuticals

Thanks, Sudhir. India business revenue for the quarter at INR 1,444 crore, grew by 18%. Excluding the acquired business of Curatio, the base business growth was 12% for the quarter, against a market growth of 4% as per the AIOCD data set. Our market outperformance was led by continued double-digit growth in chronic therapies, revival in gastro demand, traction in the consumer division, and new launch performance. Our new launches in the chronic business continue to do well. Torrent is ranked number one amongst the branded generic players in the sitagliptin market, and we continue to gain market share. We expect to clock INR 100 crore sales on a MAT basis during the coming quarter for our sitagliptin franchise, which would be our fastest INR 100 crore launch, mainly on account of field force expansion undertaken last year.

The Curatio portfolio continues to deliver robust performance, with 17% growth for the quarter, led by the flagship brand Tedibar. Tedibar continues its growth trajectory upward of 25% on account of increased activation at pediatricians and more recently, digital media and e-commerce platforms. On the acquisition integration front, we have completed one year since the acquisition of Curatio. EBITDA margins are now 14% higher than pre-acquisition levels, which is also 6% higher than the previous quarter due to enhanced focus on cost synergy execution. We believe, we believe there is still significant headroom for margin improvement over the next 6-8 quarters, mainly through operating leverage. The consumer health division is progressing well, and our flagship brand, Shelcal500, continues to see increasing sales traction through media and trade activation.

The national media campaign for Shelcal500 was initiated towards the end of Q2, and other brands such as UNIENZYME, Tedibar, and Ahaglow are now all active on digital media and e-commerce engagement. At the end of the quarter, Torrent has 20 brands in the top 500 of the IPM, with 15 brands more than INR 100 crore sales as of MAT September 2023. We expect the India business to continue outperforming the market growth. Our focus during the rest of the year will be to continue improving our market share in our focus therapies, new launch performance, and improving field force productivity of the expanded divisions and regions, while executing our consumer health national rollout. I'll now hand over to Mr. Sanjay Gupta for the international business.

Sanjay Gupta
Executive Director of International Business, Torrent Pharmaceuticals

Thank you, Aman. We will start with our branded generics market of Brazil.

In Q2, Brazil had a constant currency revenue of BRL 149 million, as compared to BRL 121 million in Q2 of prior year, registering a 23% growth. Adjusted for Q1 cutover sales, Q2 growth would be at 13%. As per IQVIA of the end of August, Torrent's Branded generic growth is 13% versus a branded generic market growth of 8%. IQVIA is showing that almost all of our products are growing much faster than the market. We have added 26 reps in CNS segment during August 2023, and this will bring the total number of Torrent reps in Brazil to 206 in CNS. This will expand our reach, and it helps us in balancing our portfolio amongst the two teams.

We'll be launching four more products before the end of this financial year, two in CNS and two in cardio diabetes. Our Generics business in Brazil continues to show strong momentum. Moving on to Germany. Our German business has registered a growth of 21% this quarter. Constant currency revenue was at EUR 30 million, up by 8%. During Q2, Torrent had good wins in tenders, which will have a positive impact on sales starting in the Q4 timeframe. We also expect the impact of our sales force expansion from eight to 15 to show in our OTC business by the end of this year. In H1, we have launched five products, three from partners and two in-house. Going forward, Torrent's focus will include cost optimization to improve the competitiveness in the tender segment, launching new progress products, and developing its OTC business.

In the U.S., we registered revenues of INR 248 crores, down by 15%. Constant currency revenue for the U.S. is at $30 million, down by 18%. Adjusted for one-off income in Q2 of the previous year, constant currency de-growth is at 16%. De-growth was due to loss of low-margin business and some short-term supply issues. Our Dahej facility has received the EIR, and now we can launch new products from this facility. As Sudhir mentioned, we recently launched our first oncology product from a new oral onco facility at Bileshwarpura, as well as a niche derma CGT product from our derma plant at Pithampur. Customer response has been positive for both these launches. To conclude, our focus will remain on deepening our presence in value generic markets, while continuing to grow in Germany and returning to profitable growth in the U.S.

Operator, we can open the call to questions now, please. Thank you.

Operator

Sure. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask questions may press star and one on their touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking questions. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. To ask questions, please press star and one. The first question is from the line of Damayanti Kerai from HSBC. Please go ahead.

Damayanti Kerai
Analyst, HSBC

Hi, good evening. Thank you for the opportunity. So my first question is on India business. So while you maintain your outperformance against the market, what we have seen is that the volume trends have been very muted. So, what are your thoughts on that? Like, how it will dictate the market growth ahead and your growth accordingly, and if you can also split your second quarter India growth into volume, price, and new launches.

Aman Mehta
Whole-Time Director, Torrent Pharmaceuticals

Yeah, we think that, while external data reflects market growth to be 4% in the case of AIOCD and, I believe 7%, in IQVIA, it, it's somewhere in the, in the middle, maybe even on the higher range, if you take 7%. Our view is that market growth is actually around 7%-8%, because otherwise we would not be able to be at, a 12% kind of a growth. So our, our delta has generally been in that range. So maybe we'll give it a few months or quarters for the market reflection to normalize the various kind of adjustments and normalizations that have been happening. So I would wait another quarter or so to just see the market reflection.

In terms of our growth break-up, so as mentioned, our reported growth is 18%, but the base business growth is 12%.

Damayanti Kerai
Analyst, HSBC

Mm-hmm.

Aman Mehta
Whole-Time Director, Torrent Pharmaceuticals

So out of that 12%, roughly 7% is coming from price, and rest is from volume and new products.

Damayanti Kerai
Analyst, HSBC

If you can specify volume contribution also, I guess that will give us some better insight.

Aman Mehta
Whole-Time Director, Torrent Pharmaceuticals

So volume would be about 1%-1.5%. New products is about 3.5%-4%, but new products is practically counted as volume because it's, it's from a zero base. So we would count... In the first year, new products is pretty much and volume to be seen in the same basket. So combined, let's say, volume growth is about 4%.

Damayanti Kerai
Analyst, HSBC

Okay. So according to you, say, like, there has been no, like you mentioned, market should see normalizing trends a few quarters from now. So according to you, do you think this, volume, muted, muted volume trends, which you are seeing, that's, not structural in nature, right? It's just maybe, some temporary, adjustment or some,

Aman Mehta
Whole-Time Director, Torrent Pharmaceuticals

That, that's correct. That's what we believe.

Damayanti Kerai
Analyst, HSBC

Okay. And, my second question is on Brazil. So, it includes the spillover impact, right, as you mentioned in your recent commentary? Yeah. So can you specify the total number of reps you mentioned for CNS, but if you can specify, like, total number in the market?

Sanjay Gupta
Executive Director of International Business, Torrent Pharmaceuticals

Yeah. So I mentioned the CNS reps. You can add cardio diabetes people, so 113 people to that.

Damayanti Kerai
Analyst, HSBC

So 206 for CNS and 113 for cardio segment.

Sanjay Gupta
Executive Director of International Business, Torrent Pharmaceuticals

Correct.

Damayanti Kerai
Analyst, HSBC

Okay. Yeah. So very broadly, if you can also, talk a bit about your expectations for the Brazil market outlook. Like you have added sales force, and then you have been picking up well on generics also. Your core segment is doing well, so how should we see this segment?

Sanjay Gupta
Executive Director of International Business, Torrent Pharmaceuticals

Yeah, thanks. Brazil, you know, our primary sales vary from quarter to quarter, so I would suggest that we look at a trend over two or three quarters to get a feel for how the business is performing. Let me give you figures from IQVIA for last fiscal year and then two quarters, and you get an idea. For fiscal year ending March 2022, the total market was growing at 14.5%, and then Torrent was growing at 22.7%, so about 8 percentage points higher. For Q1, the market was at 12.18%, and as per IQVIA, we were at 19.7%.

Currently, the quarter market is at 10%, and we are at 17.8%. So over long term, Brazil market is a double-digit market. Last six, seven, eight quarters, been a double-digit market, and the delta that we've been maintaining while for the full fiscal year and the last two quarters is in the 7%-8% range. I think I've seen it in the 5% range in earlier. So I consider 5% and above to be a very healthy level of growth above the market, and I would expect that to continue.

Damayanti Kerai
Analyst, HSBC

Okay, so you're broadly done with your sales force addition in Brazil, and maybe it's now launches and then better penetration, which can help you sustaining this kind of strong performance against the market? Yeah.

Sanjay Gupta
Executive Director of International Business, Torrent Pharmaceuticals

Then it's a little bit like, it's a cycle, right? So we added sales force, then we add portfolio. Then two, three years down the line, we might add more sales rep. So, you know, it's a virtuous cycle.

Damayanti Kerai
Analyst, HSBC

Okay. Thank you. Thank you for your answers.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Neha Manpuria from Bank of America. Please go ahead.

Neha Manpuria
Senior Analyst, Bank of America

Yeah, thanks for taking my question. Sudhir, on the 75% gross margin, is this a reflection of the portfolio optimization that we have done in the U.S., and therefore, we should assume that these are sustainable gross margins, or is there any one-off impact in that, that we need to consider?

Sudhir Menon
CFO and Executive Director of Finance, Torrent Pharmaceuticals

No, there's no one-off impact, Neha. If you remember last quarter, I think there was the same question which was asked, whether 75%, which we registered in quarter one, could be sustainable in quarter two.

Neha Manpuria
Senior Analyst, Bank of America

Mm-hmm.

Sudhir Menon
CFO and Executive Director of Finance, Torrent Pharmaceuticals

And I said yes, and part of it is, the cost efficiencies, which we've tried bringing as far as the U.S. business is concerned, which is panning out positively. So I think this should remain going forward.

Neha Manpuria
Senior Analyst, Bank of America

Do you think there's more headroom for expansion from here based on what we're doing in the U.S. and, you know, the new launches in Brazil and stuff like that?

Sudhir Menon
CFO and Executive Director of Finance, Torrent Pharmaceuticals

No, I wouldn't take that for the next two quarters, Neha. I would, I would remain at where we are.

Neha Manpuria
Senior Analyst, Bank of America

Understood. And, you know, second question on capital allocation. You know, there's a fair bit of, you know, Torrent has been in the news a fair bit in the last few months. I know you, you know, obviously, won't comment on the, news, but just wanted to understand, our M&A priorities. What are the focus area that we're looking at, and what's our comfort when it comes to leverage?

Sudhir Menon
CFO and Executive Director of Finance, Torrent Pharmaceuticals

No, so Neha, I think, as a policy, we do not comment on any speculative news with respect to any acquisition, I would say, and we would maintain at that at this point.

Neha Manpuria
Senior Analyst, Bank of America

Yeah, fair enough. Sudhir, I'm, I'm not asking you to comment on the news. My question is, you know, when we are looking at assets, now that Curatio is integrated, it's ramping up well, you know, growth in the base business is good. Leverage will be less than 1x. So when we are thinking about a capital allocation or M&A, you know, what's our comfort leverage that we're okay to take on our books? And second, how should I look at priorities? Would this be the U.S. market, the Brazil market, or would we focus on the deals that we have done in the past?

Sudhir Menon
CFO and Executive Director of Finance, Torrent Pharmaceuticals

No, absolutely. So I think all the past deals we've done more in India, right? I mean, none of the international geographies we've really done any acquisition, for whatever reason it is. Having said that, if, let's say, if I think of capital allocation in India at INR 100, possibly if I look at Brazil or some of the other markets, it would not be INR 100, it will be substantially lower, right?

Neha Manpuria
Senior Analyst, Bank of America

Mm-hmm.

Sudhir Menon
CFO and Executive Director of Finance, Torrent Pharmaceuticals

I mean, because India is something which we understand properly, and we've a track record of successfully integrating most of the acquisitions which we've done. So we're more comfortable doing it around India, I would say. That's point number one. I think point number two on what kind of debt or leverage we would be comfortable at, it all depends upon what kind of cash flows are generated by the company which we are acquiring, right? I mean, and both put together, what is the comfort which we have in terms of the cash flow generation and the cash flow being used for meeting the financial obligations which are there, still maintaining whatever capital is required for the growth which is required in the business, right?

I mean, that's the way to look at- But having said so, I think if you look at the past acquisitions, for example, Unichem, at that point, I think we've-

Neha Manpuria
Senior Analyst, Bank of America

Mm-hmm

Sudhir Menon
CFO and Executive Director of Finance, Torrent Pharmaceuticals

... gone, at that point, at the time of acquisition, we were at around 3x of net debt to EBITDA, which came down substantially over the two years' time. And that's the trend which we believe any branded business acquisition would deliver. And therefore, I would say if at all some acquisition is happening and we need to look at what we are comfortable at, what I would say is that a starting of 3x is something which should be comforting, provided that over the next two years, the leverage is coming down substantially, maybe to 1.5x-2x.

Neha Manpuria
Senior Analyst, Bank of America

Got it. Thank you so much, Sudhir.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Abdul Puranwala from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.

Abdul Puranwala
Assistant VP, ICICI Securities

Yeah, hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. So just on the U.S. front, this quarterly revenue of $30 million, so would it be possible to quantify, you know, the Q and Q decline in terms of what was the one-off impact and, you know, the impact of you guys exiting certain low-margin products?

Sanjay Gupta
Executive Director of International Business, Torrent Pharmaceuticals

No, actually, I would prefer not to disclose it that detailed. But generally speaking, we have, you know, single-digit price erosion as required. And then we also lost some volumes due to some contracts being lost and some supply-related issues. So, going forward, things should be in the $30 million-$35 million range, but I cannot guide you further than that.

Abdul Puranwala
Assistant VP, ICICI Securities

Sure, sir. And, secondly, on India. So, if you could share the outlook of the market first, and how Torrent will be able to grow, because we see Q2, the market itself has grown 4% and our organic or, you know, the base business group of 12%. We have significantly outperformed the market. So, you know, if you could just share your thoughts on how the market growth is going to pan out for fiscal 2024 or 2025, if you could throw some light there. Thank you.

Aman Mehta
Whole-Time Director, Torrent Pharmaceuticals

Yeah. So, we mentioned earlier that we believe, you know, the real market growth would be closer to around 7% or 8% this quarter. This should be sequentially higher than the previous quarter because some of the acute therapies seem to have increased in contribution, particularly in our case, for subchronic, there's been a revival in the gastro market. So from Q1 to Q2, there has been an improvement in the market growth. So if we assume that the current market growth is around 7%-8%, we believe the rest of the year should remain at this level, and our delta with the market growth should remain similar. And we don't really see anything different happening in the next year or two years.

We believe this should, I mean, two years is a long time to really comment on right now, but we structurally don't think anything different should be happening. This level of growth should be maintained.

Abdul Puranwala
Assistant VP, ICICI Securities

All right. So, so and final question, if I may. So on the trade generic business what we had set up, you know, some quarters ago, so how has been the traction there? Because, you know, the 1% volume growth, which you mentioned, I mean, does that include the trade-generic revenues as well, and this number, what you have reported? And, you know, going ahead on the acute side, how do we see some traction building up, in this particular segment?

Aman Mehta
Whole-Time Director, Torrent Pharmaceuticals

No, our volume growth that I mentioned was without trade generics. We don't count the trade generics as part of volume growth in our overall prescription business. Trade generics standalone has grown somewhere between 20%-25% this quarter for us, and we're just consistently adding new SKUs here. So I believe we now have about 75-80 SKUs. So both are continuing their own growth trajectory. Obviously, trade generics at a lower base will be growing slightly faster for the next couple of quarters. And then once we reach a certain level of base, it should be at high teens growth is what we believe.

Abdul Puranwala
Assistant VP, ICICI Securities

Understood. Thank you so much, and wish you all the best.

Operator

Thank you. Before we take the next question, a reminder to participants that you may press star and one to join the question queue. The next question is from the line of Shyam Srinivasan from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.

Shyam Srinivasan
Analyst, Goldman Sachs

Good evening. Thank you for taking my question. Just going back again to the capital allocation point. How do you think, how do you look at the valuations for some of the assets that are in the market, which you may be evaluating, may not be evaluating? Are valuations at this point of time stretched from a, you know, what are the 12 months forward kind of a basis? So does it mean are you reworking some of your, you know, payback metrics upwards to say, "Okay, it could take another year or two?" Because historically, we see Torrent has been very disciplined about when EPS accretion needs to come from some of its M&A. Right, that is one. And point number two is the size of the deal, right? So historically, we have done small deals.

Is there a change in philosophy now that there are available opportunities that the board, management are actually seeking for? What kind of assets you will likely go after?

Sudhir Menon
CFO and Executive Director of Finance, Torrent Pharmaceuticals

So I think, Shyam, I think the comment on valuation on other companies would be quite general, I would say, because there would be some positives or negatives playing out for them, and that's, that's how the market looks at the valuation for each and every company. Very difficult to comment on how the valuations are looking at this point in time. That's point number one. Point number two, I think at this point, whether thinking has changed in terms of aspiration on the acquisition ticket size, I think we are not in a position to comment at this point in time, I would say.

Shyam Srinivasan
Analyst, Goldman Sachs

Just trying to see your comment on, just trying to comment on your net debt where you said, organically has been done. Today, we will go to less than 1x, you know, net debt to EBITDA , and maybe historically in the past, you have gone up to 3x. Does it mean a change in our fact that, you know, we are open, there is debt availability, the high liquidity funds available, and just want to tie in the philosophy there, because I sometimes miss that. Do we want to be a top five company, top ten company? Is that our ambition? Sorry, we are already top ten, top five. Is that our ambition in India, or is it like, you know, we want to kind of systems how they are and we continue to outperform our basic markets?

What would be the more dominant philosophy there?

Sudhir Menon
CFO and Executive Director of Finance, Torrent Pharmaceuticals

Shyam, I think that's what I answered on the previous question, right? I mean, what we would be comfortable with in terms of the leverage, and based on the cash flows, which would be generated, both on the existing business as well as the acquired business. 3x is something which, as I said, to start with, could be comfortable, provided it goes down substantially to maybe 1.5x or near to 2x, if I can put it that way. I think other than that, I don't think there's any comment to be made at this point.

Shyam Srinivasan
Analyst, Goldman Sachs

Got it. My last question is just on the business side, which you said you outlined at the start of the call. I know this has been covered earlier, but you seem to be showing some of the traction now. So can you just elaborate a little bit on quality to come in around the digital marketing? What are some of the early successes that you have seen with the brand, and, you know, what can we expect going forward? Thank you.

Aman Mehta
Whole-Time Director, Torrent Pharmaceuticals

Yeah. So the larger allocation has been on Shelcal, and that's actually more on traditional media and not digital. Digital is a small part of Shelcal's campaign right now. We have initiated digital more on other brands on a pilot basis like Tedibar, UNIENZYME, and Ahaglow because they're a slightly different category compared to Shelcal. So we want to kind of play a wait and watch game every quarter. The early success or initial signs of positive success in Shelcal drove us to kind of go national for the campaign here, which is what has started. And we are seeing that in the media markets where we are present with both distribution, enhanced distribution and media visibility, we are seeing significantly higher growth compared to the non-media markets.

And, I think pre-consumerization of Shelcal and now almost, you know, three quarters later, we are seeing a very meaningful uptick in the sales of Shelcal500. And the rest of the brands, Shelcal XT, Shelcal HD, continue their good trajectory in the prescription segment, which is focused on gynecologists, physicians, orthos. So that is the broad segmenting that is done. And as we see more kind of success or failures in Tedibar and other brands, we'll scale up or scale down their campaigns accordingly. But we do believe that each of the brands that we have selected have ample potential to grow on each of these, Rx plus digital plus traditional media.

Shyam Srinivasan
Analyst, Goldman Sachs

Got it. Is there any investments that you're calling out for this, the, both this traditional push as well as this, digital, or this is just part of your overall, you know, SG&A?

Aman Mehta
Whole-Time Director, Torrent Pharmaceuticals

There has been an increase in SG&A, and particularly in marketing spend, advertising spend, plus field force, which is already reflected in this quarter. It was kind of initiated almost two quarters, three quarters ago, and now that cost is fully built in. So in this financial year, there is a higher increase in our cost base compared to last year, which is more of a one-time exercise. So we believe that the field force expansion in Rx, which is a Prescription business plus Consumer, required that initial investment, which is now stabilized. And next year onwards, there won't be any additional increase in costs from there. So this is now the cost that we will be operating at.

Shyam Srinivasan
Analyst, Goldman Sachs

Got it. Thank you, and all the best.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Saion Mukherjee from Nomura. Please go ahead.

Saion Mukherjee
Managing Director and Head of India Equity Research, Nomura

Yeah, thank you. Aman, just wanted to, you know, reconfirm your view on India here. So you mentioned, you know, you think 7%-8% growth that IQVIA is showing looks credible. You mentioned that's the kind of growth you expect going forward. Actually, this appears to be a you know, slowdown, because historically we have seen growth rate somewhere closer to 10%. Now, this seems to be structural in nature, given, you know, we see many companies launching trade generics. We are seeing, you know, Jan Aushadhi volumes picking up and some pharmacies launching generic medicines and pushing private labels. Don't you think these are structural changes, which are happening in the industry, which is dragging down the overall growth?

Aman Mehta
Whole-Time Director, Torrent Pharmaceuticals

So this has been there for quite some time. It's not a very recent development or phenomenon. I think the trade generics and Jan Aushadhi, I mean, substitution risk or threat has always been around for almost, you know, several 4-5 years now. And we've always maintained our belief that some part of the market will remain generic, some part of the market will remain branded. So if there is an increased substitution level or increased penetration of generics, we can't really comment any specific numbers, but maybe, let's say, if we attribute 0.5% of IPM growth could be slowed down because of that, but it's not anything beyond that. So in our view, the risk of trade generics cannibalizing branded generics is overestimated right now.

In terms of reflection in growth, so, again, we mentioned earlier, but there are several factors right now, one predominantly being that almost half of the IPM is acute contribution. And that market, based on various reasons, whether it's seasonality and all, has somehow not picked up this year. The rest of the market is on track, especially our contribution, high contribution therapies, which are chronic. So we do believe that market should normalize in the next coming quarters. If right now at this 7%-8% level, could be slightly higher from here, but there is no real kind of structural threat that is causing this in our view.

Saion Mukherjee
Managing Director and Head of India Equity Research, Nomura

Okay. Thanks for that. And my second question is on the, you know, U.S. market. We have seen a sequential drop in sales. So this rationalization, was this something specific, you know, for this quarter? And also, you mentioned about onco launch. What kind of cost would have hit our P&L because of this facility commissioning, if you can, you know, give some numbers around that?

Sudhir Menon
CFO and Executive Director of Finance, Torrent Pharmaceuticals

So, Saion, we capitalized in the month of July. So all the costs pertaining to manufacturing is already captured as part of the gross margin, I would say or the EBITDA margin. So nothing incremental month-on-month, going forward from here. Sanjay, you want to comment on the launch, which we've done?

Sanjay Gupta
Executive Director of International Business, Torrent Pharmaceuticals

No, it's gone, gone well. I mean, we would have a double-digit market share, and it's a product called sorafenib, so we were the sixth entrant. So but it's a, it's a good start to our oncology franchise, and we've captured already in the first three months, double-digit market share, and let's see how it goes.

Sudhir Menon
CFO and Executive Director of Finance, Torrent Pharmaceuticals

And time.

Sanjay Gupta
Executive Director of International Business, Torrent Pharmaceuticals

Yeah.

Sudhir Menon
CFO and Executive Director of Finance, Torrent Pharmaceuticals

Because the capitalization of total oncology plan happened around 2 July, yeah? From that perspective, the quarter captures all the costs.

Saion Mukherjee
Managing Director and Head of India Equity Research, Nomura

Yeah. So I was looking at the quantum, if you can quantify.

Aman Mehta
Whole-Time Director, Torrent Pharmaceuticals

Well, I don't think it's very significant to be quantified, Sai.

Saion Mukherjee
Managing Director and Head of India Equity Research, Nomura

Okay. Okay. On the U.S., actually, I was looking at the sequential fall, and I was wondering if any specific thing happened this quarter. You mentioned like $30 million-$35 million run rate going forward. So how should we sort of think slightly longer term when you look at FY 2025 with new products coming, what should we sort of expect from the U.S.? Because I remember last call, you know, you mentioned U.S. can go back to $200+ million on an annualized basis. If you can comment on how should we think about U.S. from a slightly longer term perspective.

Sanjay Gupta
Executive Director of International Business, Torrent Pharmaceuticals

Yeah, longer term, I think that's correct. I think we're just waiting for two things. One is for new molecules and new products to get approved from the Dahej. So our pipeline has two types of products, right? One which were already gone generic, so we would be late entrants, and one where we would go generic on day one. So it's a mix of both. So I am waiting for some approvals to come from the Dahej, but also we have a significant number of filings from Indrad. So I'm waiting for Indrad plant clearance also to be able to launch that. And as you know, Indrad, we've completed all the formalities. We're just waiting for inspection. And so I don't know.

It's a function of approvals as to when we start to get a positive sales momentum. In the meantime, we're going to do as best as we can to maintain a base business that is reasonably profitable.

Saion Mukherjee
Managing Director and Head of India Equity Research, Nomura

Is there any change in dynamics in terms of price erosion in the recent past? Anything you would like to sort of comment how you see the market dynamic?

Sanjay Gupta
Executive Director of International Business, Torrent Pharmaceuticals

Sai, what happens is, when all the companies say there's no price erosion, the customers come back and they start price erosion in the subsequent quarters. So I prefer not commenting on price erosion. But I would say that generally the trends are pretty much what they were.

Saion Mukherjee
Managing Director and Head of India Equity Research, Nomura

Okay. So year on year, like mid to high single digit, is that right?

Sanjay Gupta
Executive Director of International Business, Torrent Pharmaceuticals

Yeah. Generally, a mid, mid single to high single, sometimes, depending on individual product situations and companies could be lower or higher, but-

Saion Mukherjee
Managing Director and Head of India Equity Research, Nomura

Okay. Okay. Okay, okay. That's it. Thank you.

Sanjay Gupta
Executive Director of International Business, Torrent Pharmaceuticals

Meanwhile, just, I've noticed customers are very sensitive to supply issues. So as a lot of players are discontinuing products, then suddenly pricing becomes less important than supply continuity.

Saion Mukherjee
Managing Director and Head of India Equity Research, Nomura

Yeah, I mean, I was thinking more at an aggregate level. I mean, you know, that dynamic has been playing out for some time, so I was wondering if anything has changed. Because mid-single to high-single seems to be, pretty much sort of a normal erosion aspect.

Sanjay Gupta
Executive Director of International Business, Torrent Pharmaceuticals

Right.

Saion Mukherjee
Managing Director and Head of India Equity Research, Nomura

Okay, thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Before we take the next question, a reminder to participants that you may press star and one to join the question queue. To ask questions, please press star and one. The next question is from Madhav Marda, from Fidelity International. Please go ahead.

Madhav Marda
Investment Analyst, Fidelity International

Yeah, yeah. Hi, sir, good evening. Thank you so much for your time. So just wanted to get your thoughts on, recently when the government tried to push the policy of, right, getting doctors to write generic names on prescriptions. I understand there's a, you know, challenge with quality of infra for testing drugs in India. But in case that sort of get built up in the country and there are some initiatives from the government side to ensure better quality, business thing, and then they kind of say, you know, write generic medicine. Fundamentally, is that something wrong, that doctors write generic names, or do you think branded generic is, like, the way to go, longer term for the country?

Because when we look at, like, developed markets, basically, as the country goes with growth factor, generally, it's generics which gets it in, right? So just trying to get your thoughts on that.

Aman Mehta
Whole-Time Director, Torrent Pharmaceuticals

So quality is one part of it, and obviously, the, I mean, there's NMC guidelines which govern different set of stakeholders. There's quality guidelines through DCGI. So there's a lot of different factors at play. But in our view, branded generics would remain even in that kind of a hybrid system, and many developed markets also have a branded generic market that continues to exist. So it's not that all developed markets only run on generics. So various factors could be at play, but in at least our view, the next couple of years, I mean, as evolution in framework and legal framework comes about in India, this basic framework should not change.

Madhav Marda
Investment Analyst, Fidelity International

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Okay, okay. All right. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you very much. That was the last question in queue. I would now like to hand the conference back to Mr. Sanjay Gupta, Executive Director of International Business, for closing comments.

Sanjay Gupta
Executive Director of International Business, Torrent Pharmaceuticals

I would, I'd like to reiterate that our focus will continue to remain in deepening our presence in branded generic markets, to maintain growth in Germany and also to turn around the U.S. business as we set our plans to put through the system. Thank you for your participation today, and this will be the end of our call. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you very much. On behalf of Torrent Pharma, that concludes the conference. Thank you for joining us, ladies and gentlemen. You may now disconnect your lines.

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