Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Shaily Engineering Plastics Limited Q1 FY 2026 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Amit Sanghvi. Thank you and over to you, sir.
Thank you very much. Good evening and a very warm welcome to all the participants to the post Quarter 1 FY 2026 investor call with Shaily. I have with me Mr. Sanjay Shah, Chief Strategy Officer and SGA, our investor relations advisors. I hope you've had a look at our investor presentation that is uploaded on our website as well as the stock exchange. Let me start with giving some highlights on the operational performance and business overall. In Quarter 1, we have delivered strong revenue growth of 38% year-on-year to INR 247 crores, with an EBITDA margin expanding by 840 basis points to 28.5%. The growth is attributable to improved traction in our healthcare segment, which shows a growth of 181% year-on-year to INR 77 crores.
The healthcare segment's contribution to the overall revenue mix has doubled to 31%. Giving a brief on business updates. In the healthcare segment, in response to increased customer demand, we have installed a capacity which consists of 19 injection molding machines, an assembly line, and a printing line to add another additional 25 million pen capacity per annum. We intend to have this capacity expansion completed and on stream by the end of Q2 FY 2026. We've also received plant machinery for the manufacture of an eye applicator and have also successfully signed a new contract for supply of pens. We have officially started the commercial manufacturing of GLP-1 pens for semaglutide. In addition to the above-mentioned capacity expansion, we're also planning an additional line of 25 million pens for one of our other variants of semaglutide pen.
We plan to invest a total CapEx of INR 125 crores for the same in FY 2026. The said expansion is expected to be completed between the end of FY 2026 and the beginning of FY 2027. We are seeing significant growth on our IP-led pen platforms going forward. We're in discussions with multiple customers regarding volume commitments and capacity requirements for the next three to five years and would be aligning our manufacturing capacity and global manufacturing footprint accordingly. Our focus is in line with expanding our horizons to include contract manufacturing for medical devices, products featuring our intellectual property and personalized packaging solutions. We're on track with our guidance, expecting healthcare business to contribute significantly to our revenue and profitability over the next couple of years, thereby enhancing the organizational value.
Coming to the consumer segment, we have been awarded business for the supply of mixed materials products, steel and plastic. We have successfully received business for the supply of male accessories from one of our marquee customers in the FMCG space. We have also seen an improvement in our carbon steel business for the year. Revenues from the overall segment grew by 14% year-on-year to INR 151 crores. We have good visibility across our business segments and confidence to expand our reach and performance. That is all from my side. I shall now hand the call over to Sanjay Shah to give you the operating and financial highlights. Thank you very much.
Good evening, everyone. Thank you, Amit. I shall share with you the highlights of our operational and financial performance of Q1 FY 2026, following which we will be happy to respond to your queries. During Q1 FY 2026, we processed 7,016 tons of polymers as against 5,902 tons in Q1 FY 2025. Machine utilization rate has improved to around 49% in Q1 FY 2026 as against 39% in Q1 FY 2025. We expect utilization levels to improve quarter-on-quarter. Exports during Q1 FY 2026 stood at around 76% of total revenue. I shall now brief you on the consolidated results for Q1 FY 2026. Revenues stood at INR 246.7 crores as compared to INR 179.4 crores in Q1 FY 2025, a growth of 38% year-on-year.
EBITDA has nearly doubled to INR 70.4 crores as compared to INR 36.1 crores in Q1 FY 2025, a growth of 95% on a year-on-year basis. EBITDA margins have improved to 28.5%, an increase of 840 basis points on a year-on-year basis. PAT has grown to INR 41.1 crores as compared to INR 17.4 crores in Q1 FY 2025, showcasing a growth of 146% on a year-on-year basis. PAT margins improved to 16.7%, an increase of 700 basis points on a year-on-year basis. Cash PAT stood at INR 52.6 crores as compared to INR 27.6 crores in Q1 FY 2025, growth of 91% on a year-on-year basis. Now coming to consolidated segmental revenue breakup for Q1 FY 2026.
In the consumer segment, revenues stood at INR 151.4 crores as compared to INR 132.8 crores in Q1 FY 2025, a growth of 14% year-on-year. In the pharma segment, revenues stood at INR 77.2 crores as compared to INR 27.4 crores in Q1 FY 2025, a robust growth of 181% on a year-on-year basis. Industrial segment revenue growth stood at INR 18.1 crores as compared to INR 19.2 crores in Q1 FY 2025. We saw a minor decline on a year-on-year basis. This is all from our side. Now we can open the floor for Q&A. Thank you.
Thank you very much, sir. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handset while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. First question is from the line of Harsh Shah from Dalal & Broacha. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. Firstly, congratulations on a strong execution. I have a few questions. Firstly, in the healthcare division, the capacity that you mentioned, the 25 million getting executed, coming on stream by Q2 and another 25 million between the end of this financial year and the starting. Is the number that I'm putting out correct, that our capacity at the beginning of FY 2027 would be around 90 million pens in totality?
No. No, it will not be 90 million. The effective capacity will be closer to somewhere between 70 million and 75 million, 80 million.
Okay, this is post the expansion. What is the current capacity then?
There's two expansions, right? One that goes on stream by Q2 FY 2026. With that, it's about INR 45 million, and with the additional INR 25, the effective capacity will become INR 70 million-INR 75 million.
Got it. Okay.
You have to keep some space here for changeovers and the effective capacity is what we intend to manufacture and sell and essentially it's never going to reach 100% of what we're installing.
Correct. Got it. Also if you could help us quantify, say in Q1, what is the number of pens you have sold, and if you could split that between, say, GLP-1 and non-GLP-1?
Good question. Number of pens, I actually don't have that on the top of my head, but we can come back to you guys. I'd say the quantum of what we've sold in quarter one is our IP-led devices, which contains a mix of GLP-1 and insulin. Again, with GLP-1 taking the lead, which means close to 60%-65% will be GLP-1.
Got it. Also if you could give some color in terms of how the momentum is building in terms of, say, the new clientele for GLP-1 pens. Basically where I'm coming from here is that, are you facing any situation wherein your existing customer are demanding more capacities as against what probably you would have discussed earlier on? Is it safe to assume that by the next financial year, say, the FY 2027, the effective manufacturing capacity that you're putting up should be more or less kindly fully utilized?
It's really hard to give an answer when the product has not launched. Yes, customers are discussing increased capacity, wanting more product, or having adequate buffer to cater to the potential upside. Many such conversations are happening. Many such conversations are being negotiated into commitments and contracts. As far as 2027 goes, whether we'll fully utilize the 70 million-75 million capacity that we put up, it's very hard to answer that right now. There's obviously some math and commitment behind setting up the capacity. We feel that given a 24 months-36 months kind of timeframe, capacity is obviously going to be fully utilized.
Got it. Last question from my side. On the consumer part, sir, I believe the U.S. as a geography for us remains to be a very large one. How has been the response, say from the end customers in terms of the order ramping up? Are you facing any sort of delayed ramp-up or maybe orders getting canceled or anything of that sort? Some color on it would be very helpful.
No. Sorry, go ahead. Harsh, around 16% of the revenue comes from U.S., which is spread across consumer and industrial. Currently, we are not seeing any delays or any requests from customers for change in orders or something. It's a fluid situation. We really do not know how things will pan out. I think we will probably know over the next
60 days- 90 days in terms of how things are panning out. If you ask us today, I think we are currently making shipments to U.S. as we were doing earlier.
Got it. Lastly, on the consumer electronic part. Just wanted to pick your thought. Any role that Shaily may play, say, in the PLI scheme for component manufacturing or anything of that sort? Is there a possibility, or if you could give some color on it?
The PLI scheme is very specific for specific components. What we would be looking at is doing multiple components. We will have to look at in that perspective.
I think basically, you have the CapEx incentive and sales turnover incentive. The CapEx incentive, the deadline has passed, that is no longer applicable to us. We will be applying for a sales turnover incentive.
Got it. That's it from my side. I'll get back in touch. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Anant Jain from HNI. Please go ahead.
Congratulations on a great set of numbers, thanks for the opportunity. My first question is on the teriparatide launch by our customers, when do you expect or when can we expect the first Shaily own IP product in the market? It's almost been a year that we had thought it would come in. That's the first question. Second question is, how are our new lines coming up? Any challenges that you're seeing to run our lines at 80 parts per 80 BPM and even 160 BPM? How much of a capacity is current 40 million and eventual 70 million-80 million are backed by customer commitments? How much are backed by customer commitments and how much are backed by customer advances? If you could just give that. What is the market share in terms of the number of customers filing for Canada/Brazil/India, separately?
If there are 10 customers filing for Brazil, then how many are through a Shaily device? Are we also looking or any of our customers looking to launch a pen in China as well? You mentioned in the call that there is one new customer which got added for GLP-1 in Q1 FY 2026. Which platform is this customer on? In general, is it fair to assume that or if you could give some idea which platform is the most used platform or most platform that the customers are looking to go with as of now? I have many more questions, I think if you can answer these then I will come back with later when time permitting.
Shaily teriparatide launch. Really fingers crossed there is no further CRLs to our customer. It should be this year, this calendar year at least. I don't know what the timing are, but we have obviously supplied batches. It's about just when they get approval to launch. That's to the first question. Second was on capacity.
On the lines 80 BPM and 160 BPM.
Our 40 BPM line is running actually quite well. We have an overall equipment effectiveness of roughly 81%-82%. That is what we expect from the new lines as well. We think somewhere you would max out at 85% uptime. The OEE is never going to go beyond 85%. It will be somewhere between 80% and 85%. Did that answer?
No. I am more interested in the newer 80 BPM and 160 BPM lines.
The 80 BPM line will now be installed, so we have not installed it yet. The 80 BPM line is going to go on stream over the next 60 days.
Okay.
I think it will be at least six months beyond which we will be able to comment on what is the overall efficiency that we are getting. Your third question was, what is our most?
Capacity and how much of that is backed by.
Yeah.
How much of it is backed by customer
Out of the total, let's say 70 million, 75 million pens that we are setting up capacities for, I'd say somewhere between 50 million and 60 million would be backed by commitments. Again, the commitments don't run exactly a financial year. They would run a period. It could be more in some years, potentially less in some others. It's hard to comment right now. Let's say 50%-60% is backed by some sort of a commitment. Third. Sorry, fourth question was regarding?
Customers focusing Canada, India.
I think I can comment on Canada. Brazil, again, our customers also licensed to other pharma companies. That information is not always updated with us particularly. I'll let Brazil be. I think in Canada, if you look at all the filers which are available in the public domain right now, I'd say 70% are ours. Let's say 60%-70% are Shaily's.
Okay. India?
India, again, we would have a very significant share. That number should remain more or less the same across various geographies.
Do you have any customer taking the pen to China?
Do we have a customer taking the pen to China? Not that I'm aware of right now. The new one which we've added, which is in platform.
Which platform is.
Yeah
New customer that got added?
Neo. Neo is likely to be our highest-selling platform over the next five years.
One or two more questions. How many customers did we supply Tirzepatide exhibit batches in We have supplied in Q1 and when will you supply for the rest of the year?
Sorry, can you repeat the question, please?
Can you give some information about Tirzepatide exhibit batches that we have supplied. How many customers?
This has been over the last, I guess, 24 months. Is that the question? When you said last quarter.
Last quarter.
The last quarter.
Yes.
I'd say probably, I think even same customer as new variants of semaglutide are added by the innovator, we also supply those variants to existing customers. Right? Effectively today, I think there are now 11 variants of semaglutide across various strengths and cartridge sizes. I would say last two, three months, we would have supplied to three customers exhibit batches.
Okay. Last question from my side is this, eye applicator plant and machinery supplied by the customer, how big is this opportunity for us, and when can we start seeing different numbers?
We're in the process of qualifying the full asset base. Post-qualification and approval time, not a very long approval time, but I think by Q3 we should start supplies of the Sorry, Q4, we should start supplies of the applicator.
What would be the annual size of this product?
I think at maturity it'd be somewhere around INR 25 crores of business.
Okay, great. That's it from my side. Thank you, once again, all the best.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Mohammed Haris from Monarch Networth Capital. Please go ahead.
Yes. My questions pertain to the current pen capacity we have. Can you give the split between GLP and non-GLP? Also our own IP pen platforms and third party. On the additional capacity we are setting up, could you give the same split as well? Thank you.
Mohammed, I think when you look at the current 42 million, 45 million capacity, it's fungible between our own pens and contract manufacturing. That capacity is fungible. Effectively, at the end of the year, or let's say by beginning of 2027, we'll have roughly 45 million GLP-1 pen capacity and balance in non-GLP-1. All the new capacity which we are creating is basically for our own pen platforms. Yeah.
Okay. Can you also share the incremental CapEx that would be done over this financial year and the next one? Including the current expansion.
That was part of my speech, that we're doing INR 126 crore CapEx.
Okay. Last question is regarding the CapEx we are doing, will we incur any land costs, or in terms of if we'll be doing the expansion will be greenfield or brownfield?
We don't require any additional land for the CapEx that we want to do. The INR 125 crore CapEx is being done in the current plant.
For which we have a printing, which is there.
Okay.
Any new expansion which we do also will always be greenfield, but not any brownfield.
Okay. If you would also mention the utilization figure for the pharma segment. That would be helpful, sir.
We don't report that individually. We report end utilization only at the company level.
Okay. Thank you for the answer. Yeah. That answers my question.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Gautam Trivedi from Nepean Capital LLP. Please go ahead.
Hi, Amit. Hi, Sanjay. A great set of numbers and really amazing progress. Question I had was with respect to the diabetes and GLP-1 in particular. India clearly is home to 100 million, and unfortunately 100 million diabetic patients. There's probably another 30 million, 40 million, 50 million who haven't got themselves tested. The market clearly is vast. The question really is with respect to injectables versus tablets. What's your view on that? Because the prices will come off starting January 2026. How do you view that? And is that potentially, I wouldn't use the word threat, but is that something that could impact your ability to add more capacity?
I will answer that, Gautam, in two ways. First is citing the latest published study by Lilly on oral orforglipron, which showed only a weight loss of 12%, 11%, sorry. That's the first thing. Fairly significantly under the actual numbers of injectables right now. Second, and again, I'm not in the business of doing pharmaceuticals, but what I understand from the experts in the industry is that the bioavailability of the oral is 1/10 or 1/8 of the injectable, which means the effectiveness is very low. Therefore, when you look at the orals, you see a very significantly higher API content in the tablet.
Even what, I believe Novo is going for in the U.S., if I'm not mistaken, it's a 25 mg or a 50 mg daily tablet against the highest dose which is currently available in injectable is 2.4 mg for the whole week, once a week. You see the economics. 50 times seven, 350 mg in a week versus 2.4 mg in a week. The math really has to add up. Will tablet orals take a market? I think orals are predicted to have somewhere around between 20% and 25% of market share. That's always going to happen. I believe injectables for the foreseeable future will continue to dominate, especially when orals are only going to be available from innovators. You will definitely see injectables dominate on the generic side.
Understood. That was it. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Next question is from the line of Ankit Gupta from Bamboo Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity and congratulations for the set of numbers. On the pharma front, they've recorded almost INR 75 crores of revenue for the quarter. Given how the launches are expected, the pre-launch quantities that we'll be supplying going forward in Q2, Q3, and Q4, can we expect that this will be a new base for the pharma and we should start wins from this and in the subsequent quarters?
Ankit, you're right that this is the start of it, and bulk of our revenues on the pharma business in terms of GLP-1s will happen in Q3 and Q4. You should look at higher revenue from the pharma business as we move forward.
Sure. On the consumer electronic side, have you got any approval from some sort of a product from our customer and do we expect some of the revenues to start from FY 2026?
Without commenting on any specific project or customer, we do expect to start revenue either by the end of this year or early next year.
Sure. Two questions on the technical side. As you were saying, Neo is expected to be a very good product. Have you done any Comparative Use Human Factors studies for this pen and how has been its error rate compared to the RLD device or the innovator device?
Yes, we have customers who've done the human factors on our devices. The best thing about the Neo is that it doesn't actually require human factors because it's a like to like device. It's not a device with any differences against the innovator, which is why the other mechanical devices require even Comparative Use Human Factors studies to prove that they have the same rates of error as the innovator. Whereas the Neo doesn't because it's a spring-driven device. Having said that, yes, we have data available which tell us exactly how the user behaves with the device.
Sure. Sir, one thing on the pen assembling and fill finish speeds. What we understand is from the fill finish side, as technologies evolve, the pen assembling fill finish speeds improve. Are pens able to sustain higher PPM speeds compared to our competition? If yes, what is the maximum PPM that pens can support?
I think the pens can very well support 300, 400, or 500 parts per minute line where we've not tested it. I think our largest line that our customers have procured is 160 parts per minute line. I don't see a challenge in terms of pen not being able to manage the high-speed assembly line.
Sure.
It's designed for high-speed assembly. You have to keep in mind, the ShailyPen Neo is an in-license product, right? The ShailyPen Neo was developed by one of the largest innovators in the world, experts on pen devices, and it's an in-license product, which means it is very capable of running at upwards of 3,400 parts per minute.
Okay. Just last question. Do we make our cartridges PFS in-house? If not, are pen compatible with PFS cartridge from just one player or two, three players or multiple players?
Our pens are compatible with the ISO standard of cartridges. There's an ISO standard for 3 ml, 1.5 ml, 1.8 ml cartridges. Our pens will be compatible with all of them.
Okay. We don't make them in-house?
No, we don't do any glass manufacturing.
Yeah. Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Dhwanil Desai from Turtle Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi. Good evening, everyone. My first question is regarding Shaily UK. If you can give some sense in terms of number of customers added, number of new projects, and whether anything on the innovator side. Also our employee cost has increased significantly because we were hiring a lot of people there at a top level. When do we see the resultant increase in that business, Shaily UK, Dubai? How should we look at that from FY 2026, FY 2027 perspective?
We've got some very nice projects ongoing in Shaily UK. Some are confidential, which I will not be able to comment on, but we have a new product launch coming up at CPHI in October in Frankfurt. We're very much looking forward to that product launch. It's what we think is the next generation of GLP-1 devices, and it's targeted towards large innovator pharma. There's a lot of user research and studies have gone into coming up with a set of functionality for that device, and we intend to showcase it at CPHI in October.
Oh, that's very encouraging, sir. For such products, do our design team works on their own, or is it based on the feedback from innovators with whom we have done this tie-up and we're jointly developing this product?
No, we're not jointly developing it. We work on technology ourselves based on user research feedback. If you look at the MAUDE database, it will essentially have information on issues with the current devices on the market. You look at human factors videos, you get a sense of what is lacking. You then look at trends of what people are, patients are generally doing, and which is what you base your device on. Add sustainability to the equation, and then you come up with a set of traits that you want in your device. That's how we've developed it.
Got it. Sir, on the industrial side, I think we had won that large projects and on the north side also our supply had started. On Q1 FY 2026, I think we saw a slight negative growth. Can you help us understand, have we lost some business or is this just a shift of a business from a quarter to quarter?
No. We've not lost business. A lot of this also depends on if you look at quarter one, we had a launch happening in quarter one, so we had large volumes in quarter one last year, which has evened out in the current quarter. Otherwise, business continues to remain steady and we continue to add business there.
Okay. Got it. Sir, you talked about some improvement on the carbon steel business. Are we expecting breakeven this year? I think eventual goal was to reach to company level or at least consumer side of the business level margins over a period. How should we look at that business for this year and next year?
EBITDA levels were more positive last year. We hope that we would be at a net level. We'll probably end the year on a positive basis. If you look at it, we have added businesses in the last two quarters, which we should be commercializing between quarter three and quarter four. You would basically see again revenue going up from quarter four onwards into next year. Second thing is we are looking at adding more products and adding volumes on existing products. I think revenue should go up next year also.
Okay. Very good to hear, sir. Thank you.
Excuse me.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Rupesh Tatia from Shriram Managers PMS. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity, sir, and congratulations on the fantastic results. I have few clarifications to the responses you gave to one of the earlier participants. First, one question, sir, is these pen-assembling devices that the fill-finish formulator guys have to buy, the three, four vendors is my understanding. Proxlon is there, PIMA is there, Mikron is there. Are these guys now able to provide pen-assembling machines to the fill-finish formulators? Is there one or now many of them can provide pen-assembling machines?
You've got a dozen companies who Maybe less than a dozen, but close to 10, 12 companies globally. You have ATS, you have PIMA, you have Mikron, you have Harro, you have Cleantechnics. You have Truking out of China. I'm sure there's three or four more available. Yeah, they can all provide an assembly machine. Sorry, is that the question?
Yeah. There will not be any supply issue, right? If the fill-finish guys want a machine to assemble Shaily pens, these people have already ready machines for ShailyPen Neo, ShailyPen Harmony. Everything is sorted from supply chain point of view.
There's no ready machine. They're ready platforms, and the platforms then need to be customized for the device. One machine can handle multiple devices, but again, it has to be designed in that manner. Having said that, I think machine manufacturers are quite busy right now. Is there a capacity constraint? I don't think there's free capacity available anywhere. Customers would need to plan this well.
Okay. Clear, sir. Sir, the other question is for ShailyPen Neo, and you are very confident that it's similar to RLD device, and I think in one of the older calls, you have said that you have taken a lawyer opinion that we will pass any patent challenge. In Canada, do you expect the patent challenge and in case, let's say, in worst case we don't pass through the patent challenge, then do you have the CUHF regulatory support that you can provide your customers after the patents expire? I know some of these patents will expire in 2026. There are two questions there. Can you please answer those? Yeah.
What is the question again? Could you repeat? I think regulatory support for a patent challenge is not really needed.
No.
We provide regulatory support for our customers anyways.
Yeah. In Canada, do you expect patent challenge for ShailyPen Neo?
No, I don't.
Okay.
Patent challenge will depend on, there's nothing that prevents someone from litigating against one of my customers. There's a lot of expensive FTO work done on the pen, not today. This was done over the last three years. The customers have verified the FTO with their own attorneys, so we feel good that we shouldn't have any Again, having an FTO doesn't prevent someone from litigating anyways.
Okay. Let's say, my understanding is some of the spring-related patents expire in June or July 2026, in Canada. Let's say if we are, in unfortunate scenario, we can't launch till July 2026. After July 2026, if regulator asks you for a CUHF, user study, formative CUHF study. Have we done that study? You didn't answer to earlier question, how is our rate compared to, what is our user error rate compared to an RLD device?
Again, my question to you, Rupesh, is that what does a user study have to do with a patent challenge? The regulator is not concerned with patents. The regulator is concerned with the effectiveness of the therapy and then approving it.
Okay.
Am I understanding this incorrectly, maybe?
Your pen would be different, right, sir? In case if your pen is being different from the innovator, then you have to do-
It's not different. That's what we're saying. The Neo pen is not different than the innovator.
If this is not different, then there might be a patent challenge. That's I was trying to understand both sides of the equation. Yeah, I might have my answer.
Just because it functions the same way as the innovator does not mean that the internals are the same as the innovator.
Okay.
There's seven mechanical pens or 10 mechanical pens on the market today. Each function the same way, but the internals are all different for each of them.
Okay. Clear. Clear, sir. My final question, sir, is, in Brazil, Wegovy will be launched with Ozempic, or it will be launched maybe a year later. There is some technical item issue there. Maybe if you have some view on that.
Good question. I actually don't know. There's a possibility to launch together, and there's also a possibility, depending on when the customer has filed the individual variants, that it comes on stream a little bit later.
Okay. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for answering my questions.
Thanks.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all the participants in the question queue, please restrict your questions to two per participant. Should you have a follow-up questions, please rejoin the queue. Next question is from the line of Ritesh Shah from Investec India. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. Congratulations on a good set of numbers. Sir, first question is, have you started to take advances from the customers, either for CapEx or on commitment of capacities? If you could quantify those numbers, that would be great.
No, that is confidential, Ritesh.
Okay. Are we progressing on taking money from clients? Is it for CapEx or is it for volumes? Is it both?
We don't take money from any customer for CapEx. It's a business agreement that if someone is committing an X volume over a period of time, then the commitment towards that volume-
Is an advance payment towards supply.
Towards supply, basically.
Okay. Nothing on the CapEx side. Great. Okay. My second question is, why is it that you're not looking at capacities beyond 100, say 100- 200, given the lead times to set up the machinery and stuff that you do, the lead times are quite long. Any particular thought process, or we just would prefer to be conservative?
No, we are looking at large volumes. The only thing is that we don't think having one line with 300 parts per minute is a good idea. We've done a lot of evaluation on CapEx versus cost and complexity, and we've figured out that the most optimal CapEx cost is actually at 80 parts per minute. We will have multiple lines of 80 parts per minute, but never go into 300. Just to give you an understanding, cost difference between a 80 parts per minute line to a 300 parts per minute line is in the region of four to five times. Doesn't make sense.
Okay. My question was more from going from 100 million pens to 200 million pens. The manufacturing capacity, assuming 80, is consistent.
Yeah. We will do the capacity addition, as and when we see the commitments from customers coming in. I think all of our customers know that we have an 18 months lead time to add capacity.
All right. I'll presume if we have given certain numbers of effective capacity, say 75 million-80 million by FY 2027, a good part of it would already be booked by the customers. Wouldn't that be the base case?
Yes. That's what we said in the call as well. That yes, there is commitments based on which we are building the capacity. Like I said on my call, the product hasn't launched yet anywhere. Any number that anyone gives you can change, can be very high or could be low. We really don't know.
What will be a milestone that we will look at on this INR 80 million? Basically, what is the milestone by when we will actually look to go ahead for the next big phase of expansion?
Us signing on maybe capacity contracts. As we sign them on, we look at how much expansion we need to do over the years and when those expansions need to come on stream.
Sure. Last question. Is there any update on any large orders or any work we are doing for any consumer electric companies?
No. No update. One of the previous questions I answered was that we should see some revenue end of this year, beginning of next year. Apart from that, there is no update.
Sure. This is quite useful. Thank you so much. All the very best. Thank you.
Thanks. Likewise.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Sanjay Kumar Elangovan from iThought PMS. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Congratulations on very good numbers. First question, just a follow-up to a previous question. You said 50%-60% of capacity is backed by customer funding. Let's say if our capacity is INR 70 million-INR 75 million, does it mean FY 2027, we can do INR 35 million if these customers get approval irrespective of their market sales, offtake, whatever that is?
If we set up the capacity, we have the capacity to manufacture. It's very important the customer gets approval and has the volume, right? Without that, who am I going to ship to?
Yeah. I understand that they have to get approval, but once it's in place, you will start supplying to them. I'm just trying to understand what this customer backing is. Do they pay for the volumes, or do they pay for the minimum offtake agreement? Something like that?
Okay, yeah. Most of them would be take-or-pay contracts.
They have to take odd volumes, right?
Yeah. They don't have to take 100% of the volume that we are building. We build an upside for the customer as well when we get into such contractual agreements. We keep an offsite buffer for the customer if the market expands a lot faster than they've anticipated.
Understood. Okay.
The supply is always kind of a realistic number or a pessimistic number. That is what an agreement is based on. The capacity is based on what we think is going to sell.
Whenever your customer comes back and tells us, "Hey, look, it's taking me some time for that approval," we'll obviously wait for that customer to-
Yeah.
Which is what we're doing on
Yeah.
Got it. What would be the realistic number for FY 2027, sir?
Again, we will comment after product launch.
Okay.
I know the numbers for this year, which is building up for product launch, that stock needs to be consumed. Right? We will comment on that only towards the end of the year.
Okay. INR 77 crores from healthcare in Q1. Will Q2 have a similar run rate or were there any one-offs in Q1?
There are no one-offs in Q1. No one-offs in Q2. We should do well in Q2 as well. Run rates, so far so good.
My final question is on Canada. So far, five filings according to the regulators website. Of these five, how many are with us? I understand that there are two Indian companies. Are they both...
I think we have 60% of generic market share on semaglutide across the markets that are opening up.
Okay. Any customers launching Wegovy when the patent expires in January or March 2026, or is it only Ozempic?
I think most customers have filed Ozempic first and Wegovy later. It will follow the same process, likely to get approval for Ozempic first and Wegovy after.
Okay. Final question, sir. Sorry. Harmony is, I understand Neo is very similar to the innovator pen, but Harmony is a different pen, right? Have you done such a study there? Are the metrics similar to the innovator pen in Harmony? Do you see any risk in our customers getting approval with Harmony?
Harmony, we've done a very detailed human factor study. We have proven to the authorities that the success rate, error rates are fit are the exact same as the innovator. Yeah, I think so far regulators haven't raised any concerns, I think it's safe to say that we should be in a fairly good position.
The INR 25 million initial capacity CapEx that we're doing is for Harmony and DC.
We're doing INR 125 million for Harmony and INR 125 million for Neo. The Neo capacity comes in at the beginning of FY 2027.
Okay. Sir. That's it from this side. Thank you. All the best.
Thanks.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Aman Thadani from Solidarity Investment Managers. Please go ahead.
Hello. Am I audible, sir?
Yes.
Yes. Please proceed.
Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. Most of the questions have been answered. I have just one question. The margins in the services business has been declining the healthcare services. Just wanted to understand the key reasons behind it and when do you see it turning back to, again, 70% EBITDA margins that you have done in the past?
Aman, there are two things to it. We've been adding people there for development, so we are having a higher employee cost and we are expensing that out as we speak. That's one reason for the higher employee cost. I think you will see the margins improve on the service side from this quarter.
Got it. A follow-up to that is, since we are investing behind people and new products, and we are going to demonstrate that in the CPHI as well, could the future for this segment, in terms of growth, be meaningfully different versus what it has done in the past?
Yeah. Look, our primary objective now is to target big pharma. Right?
While we scale up, what is the pipeline? In the pharmaceutical business, you need to have a kind of a seven, 10-year game plan. Even if it changes frequently, you still need a game plan. The strategy is very simple. You scale up the businesses and the product that you've developed. Simultaneously, you need to look at developing breakthrough stuff on which there isn't a like to like device out there to target big pharma with their next generation of therapies. Now, GLP-1 is one area, but there are many other areas that we are doing innovation in as well.
Core objective is to spend more on innovation and come up with new technologies. Look, pens have sort of become me-too products now, right? Because of the GLP-1 market and how large it is, everybody wants to do pens. We need to develop the next generation of drug delivery, connected drug delivery. There's a lot that goes on. There's a lot that is going to change in the industry. Our target is big pharma.
All right. That's fair, sir. Thank you so much, sir, for the opportunity. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Pritesh from Lucky Investments. Please go ahead.
Sir, I just want to clarify on the expansion. We called out 70 million pens capacity by the end of this year, and did we call out another INR 125 crore to be invested for another 25 million pens? That's how it was?
No, Pritesh. We are investing INR 125 crore over the next 12 months- 18 months for the 50 million capacity which is being created in two steps, 25 million, 25 million.
Correct. Sorry, you need to come back again. INR 125 crore to be invested over 12months- 18 months. Correct?
25 million capacity is coming on stream, let's say end of this quarter. Right? End of the current quarter. The other 25 million, it will come on stream in Q1 of FY 2027. With these two, it's a INR 125 crore investment that we're looking at.
The 20 million- 70 million is basically all inclusive, is basically this 70 million that you are including.
Correct.
70 million tons. Okay.
70million-75 million. It's hard to put an exact number, but yes, somewhere in that range. Please keep a 15% error.
Okay. As of now, the expanded capacity will be 70 million by the end of quarter four or quarter one 2027, whatever be the timing.
Correct.
Okay. This 70 million ton or 75 million ton capacity, this will operate at 80% utilization, or this is equivalent to that 80% utilization, 70 million?
Yeah. It is equal to the 80%.
Okay.
Yeah, exactly. INR 70 million is the 80%, 85% capacity.
Okay. This capacity in your best guess, you should be utilizing it fully in FY 2028?
Yeah, that's the target. That is our estimate also, but can be earlier, can also be I mean, that's what we are basing our projections. Pritesh, a lot of it will depend on when launches happen and how is the response to those launches.
Yeah. As of now, based on the best guess, that's why I asked.
Yes, you're right. That's what our internal target is as well.
Okay. Thank you, sir. All the best to you. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Aman Vij from Astute Investment Management. Please go ahead.
Good evening, sir. I had two questions, one on the pharma business. Tirzepatide exhibit batches was supposed to happen in Q1. Did it happen or do we expect it to happen in Q2 now? That is the question on pharma.
It happened in Q1 and it is also ongoing right now.
Okay. We were thinking of supplying to two to three customers. That will happen eventually in the next one to three quarters, right?
No, I think with the NC E-1 date, all supplies need to finish by, I think last would be end of October. It cannot go beyond end of October.
Okay.
If a customer is targeting NC E-1 .
We have only three customers for it right now, right?
Correct.
Okay.
Look, we don't know all our targeting NC E-1 .
Okay. It will be too late for anyone to approach you and maybe target that-
Oh, yeah. Now it's too late. Yeah.
Okay. Second set of questions is on consumer business. It was interesting to hear that there's this mixed-metal business which you won. I think that was a plan from a long time. Could you talk about is that business scalable like the carbon business, even bigger opportunities there? If you can paint a picture for next two to three years for this particular segment because I believe this is a very big market.
If we put aside what's going on globally, economically for a second, the business is very scalable. There's enough opportunities to do mixed-materials. Many products where you do plastic and metal together. Certainly our business is scalable. We don't know what's going to happen, essentially little bit of uncertainty because of tariffs and little bit of uncertainty because of whatever's happening in Europe economically. In general, as a business, it's very scalable.
Sure, sir. Final question is, we had gotten two more customers for consumer business apart from our anchor customer. How is that scaling up? Well, can these customer contribute meaningfully to our business over the next one to three years or this is like a small opportunity, good customer? Any more such customer tie-ups we are looking for?
We continue to work with these two customers and look at opportunities
Sanjay, can this be a scalable business or this is like a small kind of business opportunity, not meaningful?
No, it can be a scalable business.
It can be a scalable business.
It can be a scalable business. I think it's important for us as well as the customer to understand each other, which is what we are trying to do. I think over the next three years, it can become a sizable business.
Okay. That is it from my side. Thank you.
You're welcome.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Kishore Kumar from Unifi Capital. Please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity. I just wanted to understand how the realization is shaping up for the GLP pens. Since the commercial supplies have started now for semaglutide, is it at a broad level or has it increased now?
Sorry.
Sorry. Realization, are they increasing or what's happening on realization? Right now, it's exhibit batches in most cases.
Yeah, I think we've started manufacturing commercial supplies for the GLP-1. The realization, with the volume, the pricing obviously is different. You will see that impact. I think with the mix of the product we have, more focused on GLP-1 than insulin right now, even as the volumes are going to be this year, we are going to be well-protected on the margins.
Got it, sir. If you could give some broad number for the realization for the GLP pens, that would be helpful.
Sorry, that will not be possible.
Got it, sir. Okay. If you can actually give us how much proportion is going for the exhibit batches vis-a-vis the commercial supplies.
What you will see, Kishore, is that quarter three and four will be very heavily sided towards commercial supplies. Quarter one and two will have a mix. Again, commercial supplies will be 50% or more, but quarter three and four will be substantially leaning towards the commercial supply.
Understood, sir. My final request is, if you can give us the volume supplied in Q1, that will be great, sir. Yeah, thank you so much.
Someone else asked that question, I don't have that number off the top of my head today. I apologize, we will have that answer ready on the next call.
Thank you so much. Thank you.
All right.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraint, we will take this as the last question for the day. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for the closing comments.
Thank you everyone for joining the call. We hope that we've been able to answer your questions adequately. For any further information, I request you to get in touch with SGA, our investor relations advisors. Thank you very much and have a nice evening.
Thank you, sir. On behalf of Shaily Engineering Plastics Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.