Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Borosil Renewables Limited Q4 and FY 2024 earnings conference call, hosted by Axis Capital Limited. As a reminder, all participants' lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I'll hand the conference over to Mr. Jiteen Rushe from Axis Capital Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Nina. Good afternoon, everyone. On behalf of Axis Capital, I am pleased to welcome you all for the Q4 and FY 2024 earnings conference call of Borosil Renewables Limited. We have with us the management team, represented by Mr. P. K. Kheruka, Executive Chairman, Mr. Ashok Jain, Whole-Time Director, Mr. Sunil Roongta, Chief Financial Officer, Mr. Swapnil Walunj, Head of Marketing, Mr. Balesh Talapady, VP Investor Relations. We will begin with the opening remarks from the management, followed by an interactive Q&A session. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you. Good afternoon, and welcome to the Borosil Renewables financial year 2024 investor call. The Board of Borosil Renewables on 27th May approved the company's financial results for the year ended 31st March 2024 and for the last quarter of that financial year. Our results and an updated presentation have been sent to the stock exchanges and have also been uploaded on the company's website. We will discuss the operations of Borosil Renewables on a standalone basis as well as on a consolidated basis. I will also provide you with some highlights of the operations in our overseas subsidiaries. During the financial year 2024, the sales volumes of the company rose by 79.8% quantitatively due to full year's working of its new plant, that is to say, SG3, which was commissioned from 23rd February 2023.
Unfortunately, the significantly lower prices saw the company's recorded net revenue from operations rise by just 43.3% over financial year ended 31st March 2023 to INR 985.87 crores. Average selling prices during the year were about INR 109 per millimeter per square meter, a serious decline of 20.2% as compared to INR 136.5 per millimeter per square meter during the previous year. Export sales during the year, including to customers in SEZ, were almost flat at INR 199.78 crores, comprising 23.3% of the turnover as against INR 195.25 crores in the previous year, while direct exports were also flat at INR 181.92 crores, last year being 181.07 crores.
During the last quarter of the year gone by, the company recorded net sales of INR 227.23 crores, as against INR 187.54 crores in Quarter Four, Financial Year 2023, a 21% increase. From a quantitative standpoint, sales volumes had risen by 57% during this period. Average ex-factory selling prices during the last quarter were about INR 98.8 per millimeter per square meter, as compared to INR 132.7 per millimeter per square meter in the corresponding quarter in the previous financial year, a decline of 25.6%, leading to a steep erosion in the margins. Some more information about financial year 2024. Relentless dumping by solar glass producers in China and Vietnam caused prices to remain continuously depressed over the year.
As informed earlier to shareholders, after the lapse of anti-dumping duty on solar glass in August 2022, the floodgates were opened for duty-free dumping of Chinese glass. Unfortunately, this was coupled with a dramatic reduction in the cost of ocean freight from China and a further drop in FOB prices from China. Put together, this caused a severe decline in the landed prices of imports, leading to a slashing of our margins. Consequently, the EBITDA during financial year 2024 was INR 118.90 crores, corresponding to a margin of 12.1%, which was a steep decline as compared to an EBITDA margin of 25.7% in the previous financial year.
During the last quarter, the EBITDA was at INR 13.13 crores, corresponding to a margin of just 5.8%, as against 20.3% in the corresponding quarter in financial year 2023, and 9.4% in the previous quarter. In terms of selling prices, the last quarter saw a decline of 3.5% over the preceding quarter as the dumping continued unabated. Additionally, our production efficiencies were lower than normal in one of our furnaces for a few days. Against this backdrop of relaxing selling prices, the company recorded a post-tax loss of INR 16.52 crores for the year ending 2024, as against a profit of INR 88.54 crores in the previous year.
The last quarter recorded a post-tax loss of INR 13.37 crores, as against a profit after tax of INR 11.69 crores for the same quarter in the previous year. The solar industry is suffering from dumping and has struggled throughout the last year. Solar glass imports continue to remain completely exempt from all import duties. The 15% basic customs duty leviable on the imports of solar glass, were exempted since 1999, was set to end on 31st March 2024. You can well imagine the surprise and extreme disappointment in the industry when this exemption was unilaterally extended until thirtieth September 2024. Following our representations to multiple authorities, though, for a review of our issues with dumping, we were advised to apply for imposition of anti-dumping duty on imports from China and Vietnam, and a countervailing duty against imports from Vietnam.
Our applications to DGTR in this regard have been prima facie accepted and already taken up for investigation. The government is now fully seized of the matter, and satisfactory decisions are expected to follow, perhaps within the next 5-6 months. Until then, the domestic industry will have to continue to contend with the pressure of unrealistically low import prices and ongoing injury due to dumping. It is ironical that domestic manufacturing of solar cells and modules, both of which have high import content, enjoy Basic Customs Duty protection at 25% and 40% respectively. While solar glass, a capital-intensive product with very low import content and high local value addition using skilled labor, in the absence of duty, is subject to relentless attack by subsidized Chinese solar glass.
With the results, a significant portion of the domestic capacity is remaining unutilized, unsold, due to Chinese dumping, where there is enough demand to serve. Solar cells and modules also enjoy ALMM approved list of models and manufacturers, and DCR domestic content requirement benefits, which make it compulsory for the buyers to use the local production. There is absolutely no such benefit extended to solar glass, and the module manufacturers are free to import their entire requirements. We have petitioned the authorities to take steps in this direction, since there is a strong need to include use of local solar glass and other components in these schemes. There is an unexpected glimmer of hope for more remunerative prices in the shape of an increase in import freight rates from Southeast Asia, which is likely to give us some respite. Some positive signs for the Indian solar industry.
Firstly, solar installations in India last year were 15 GW, an impressive growth over the previous year's installations of 12.8 GW. Secondly, after some hesitant steps, the government has firmly implemented the ALMM mechanism on 1st April 2024, which mandates use of only ALMM-certified modules in the projects being installed in India. This is leading to a quantum jump in the manufacturing of domestic modules, and thus an exponential leap in the domestic demand for solar glass. Domestic solar glass manufacturing capacity has now reached 2,300 tons per day, as against 180 tons per day in April 2019.
While Borosil remains the largest non-Chinese-owned solar glass manufacturer in the world, with 1,350 tons per day, including 350 tons per day in Germany, four new manufacturers have commissioned new capacities totaling 1,300 tons per day in India, taking the capacity to 2,300 tons per day. The government has announced a target of installing rooftop solar systems on the roofs of 1 crore houses under Pradhan Mantri Suryodaya Yojana, with a promise to provide free electricity up to 300 units to the households and a provision to sell the surplus power to the grid. This will give much required fillip to the rooftop solar program and generate program, and generate demand for solar modules and consequently demand for solar glass. Our German operations.
As mentioned in my previous call, the European solar module manufacturing industry suffered a serious setback towards the end of the second quarter of last calendar year from unabated imports of Chinese solar modules at dumped prices, which severely impaired the ability of local producers to sell at their cost of production. Cancellation of orders placed on them forced them to curtail their operations. This led to a cancellation of orders on GMB for quarter three and quarter four, financial year 2024. The steps taken so far by the European Commission and German government, although positive, are not sufficient to bring back the demand, and there's a need for some concrete and urgent business. As informed in the last call, the company had temporarily slowed down production due to paucity of orders.
Meanwhile, GMB has made inroads in other export markets to fill the gap created by a low domestic demand and has been able to resume full production from the middle of March this year. The German team is committed to carry out cost optimization steps, which are showing positive results. This may help to partly offset the impact of lower selling prices in these new geographies. Now, I come to the consolidated results for the quarter, which include the operations of the subsidiaries abroad. The overseas subsidiaries, including the step-down subsidiaries, have generated net standalone revenue of INR 55.88 crores, a negative EBITDA of INR 31.07 crores for the fourth quarter of the current financial year, of the financial year just gone by. As explained, the performance was impacted by reduced operations arising from demand slowdown, as well as due to lower average selling prices.
The consolidated net revenue and negative EBITDA for the fourth quarter of the current, of the last year, stands at INR 283.11 crores and 20.82 crores respectively. The consolidated net revenue and EBITDA for the financial year 2024 stands at INR 1,369.28 crores and INR 74.85 crores respectively. Looking at the higher landed cost of solar glass in both domestic and export markets, enabling better prices, the strong and expanded demand in domestic markets arising from the spurt in domestic manufacturing, the assurances received across the concerned government ministries in the context of imposition of duties on imports of solar glass. Finally, better performance of our subsidiaries on the back of high level of operations and cost-saving measures. For all these reasons, we continue to maintain a positive outlook on the sector.
The position of our important market sources under selected export markets have shown recovery in demand. Demand in the USA has started in a small way. We expect this to go up in the later part of this year, as some more plants start module production and ramp up operations. This will raise export demand from India. We are actively engaged in improving efficiencies which lower our costs. We are negotiating an additional solar plus wind hybrid power plant, with an expected commissioning during first half of financial year 2025-2026. This will not only save costs for us, but will also enable us to meet a major portion of our demand for electricity from captive sources of renewable energy.
Finally, the company is getting three files around, to, file the draft letter of offer to SEBI, to raise funds by a rights issue of equity shares. The proceeds will be utilized mainly to reduce the debt for the Indian operations, as well as at the operating subsidiaries. The board has also approved further raising of funds through the issuance of instruments or security, including equity shares or any other security convertible into equity shares, including warrants, by way of one or more offerings, including a rights issue and/or preferential issue and/or qualified institutions placement, or through a combination thereof, in one or more tranches for an amount not exceeding INR 750 crore. In accordance with the regulations and subject to necessary approvals, including the approval of the members of the company and such other regulatory statutory approvals as may be required.
This is an enabling resolution to meet funding requirements for any opportunity which may come up. With that, I would now like to open the floor to questions that we may have. Thank you.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handset while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Ladies and gentlemen, you may press star and one to ask a question. Participants, you may press star and one to ask a question. The first question is from the line of Nikhil Abhyankar from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. So I just had one question regarding, so we were expecting some kind of tariff barrier to kick in from first of April, but most likely that in the budget that deadline has been shifted to September. So can you just brief us about what exactly has happened, and is there any scope of any barriers to be set in after September?
So actually, the situation is that there's an exemption circular. The circular comprises a wide variety of items in which solar glass is one of them, and because of the impending elections, the people were very busy, apparently, in the Ministry of Finance, and they could not segregate which items exemption was to be withdrawn and which one was to continue. That's what they've told us. Therefore, they pushed the whole thing back to thirtieth September. Of course, we shall be continuing to make efforts to have the exemption withdrawn at an earlier date, but this is uncertain.
Understood, sir. So, I believe that till we get any kind of exemption, all our CapEx plans and everything will be on hold, and there is absolutely no scope of any improvement in realizations till the barriers are in?
No, actually, the situation is this, that, we are continuing with CapEx as and when required. And in fact, every month we are adding CapEx because the demands of the industry keep changing and we need to stay alive. And if to do so, we have to, meet the demands of the industry or the customer. That is, answering your first question. Regarding the second thing, I just made a I touched upon it. The import freight rate into India from China has gone up from about $700 to about $3,200, and therefore, this may have, a positive impact on our selling.
Sir, are we already seeing the realizations improve in April and May?
Yes, there is an improvement in realization already.
Sure, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, you may press star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Sharon, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hello, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. So, are you able to hear me?
Yes, yes. Go ahead, please.
Yeah. So recently, I saw a news that in the U.S., Solarcycle, there is a company which is coming up with a plant of $340 million, which is about the recycling of solar glass and all the modules. And also they did mention that there is a huge supply of recycling of old solar panels and glass. Because of that, they are coming up with this. And in the earlier calls also, we discussed about our company exploring an opportunity for recycling as well, since there is a huge demand for that. So, do you have any update on that? Where are we on that?
We are aware about the Solarcycle plant coming up in USA at a cost of $340 million. As you know that, we set up our complete plant for 550 tons for less than $100 million. So I would say that, it's, it's a very expensive plant they, they're getting. How much solar glass they will find for recycling, again, is a question mark. So I would say it's a very, very noble initiative which they are taking. Its financial, what shall I say? Its, its financial performance is something which they are the best people to answer. I, I could not make any comment on that.
So far as India is concerned, we still have some time to go before we are able to consider recycling of solar glass. At the moment, I don't see those many modules being discarded, you know? So that may probably happen after another few years, that we'd have enough. And we are exploring all the technologies which are being discussed to recycle solar modules. And there are new technologies coming up every once in a while, and since we are not under any pressure to do so right now, we are waiting to see which one is going to turn out to be the most efficient.
Okay. Two years back, we wanted to increase our capacity to 3 x, and because of anti-dumping duty, that was kept on hold. Assuming that this year, September, if government put an anti-dumping duty, do you think that we, we have lost that two years time frame of the capacity expansion? Because from this September, again, if we start up, once we approve and start doing that capacity expansion, it may take another 1.5 years-2 years. Considering a huge demand, do you think that we are, like, we may, we, we are maybe behind in the growth of our organization in terms of capacity expansion and growth?
So I would say that we are actually ahead of others because we have a batch house, which is a very expensive component of the entire solar glass manufacturing plant, which is up and ready already for 2,000 tons. So if we set up another furnace, we do not need to spend any money on the batch house. We'll be saving money on the capital. The second thing, the entire electrical installation is already ready with us. So we will not need to spend any money on that or very little money. The fundamental installation is there with us. So, you know, to that extent, we will have a head start on others. Plus, we have the land, we have everything worked out, we have the drawings and so on.
So we would be off to a fast start in case opportunities present themselves. And we will not be lagging behind in this, at least as far as I can speak now. You know, every day is a new day, and we don't know how things will unfold, but from our point of view, this is what we are thinking today.
Sir, as considering if there is anti-dumping duty in September month by Indian government, then how much time you think, like, with all this pre-work and fundamentals ready, for doubling or tripling the capacity, how many, how many months maximum it may take for you?
About-
From there.
I mean, I would say, conservatively, 24 months, but in the past we have set up a furnace in 14 months also. That's what we've done in the past; it doesn't mean we can do it in the future, but we have put up an entire furnace in 14 months from the placement of the first order to the commencement of production.
Okay. And sir, any update from Europe side? Any good news from that Europe government on-
Yes.
Anti-
The first quarter of this calendar year, which is the last quarter of the last financial year, was our worst quarter so far in Europe ever, because we were only producing from one production line out of two. Sometime in the last week of March, we got enough orders to start the second production line, and fortunately, we are continuing to get orders, export orders, domestic orders, enough to continue to use our both production lines fully. And again, the same issue, which is happening in our part of the world here, which is increase in freight rates from China, is also happening there. So markets there also are seeing a slightly better price as compared to what they were, say, a few months ago. So there should be some improvement in realization as well.
Sure, sir. Last question, sorry for taking more questions. Glass Technology also started a solar glass plant in UAE, about worth of $350 million. So my question is, like, there are many players coming up with new plants. Do we have a plan to capture these market shares? Like, do we have any customers in UAE? Since they are coming up with new plant, why we are not able to capture that market? And how are they getting benefit with competition from China and Vietnam? Yeah, can you throw some light on this?
You see, the money they've spent on that plant seems to be very, very high. So the investment cost per ton of glass produced is very large, and that's something that we cannot countenance that kind of investment. So if you look at depreciation, interest, and other things, it would not be very inexpensive, let me put it that way. And everybody comes up, you see, everybody comes up with his own luck, you can say, and with their own abilities and things like that. So I cannot really predict how they will do, but I guess, generally speaking, the demand for solar modules worldwide is ramping up, and I hope that they find a niche for themselves wherever, wherever they can. They have spoken about selling to Europe.
I can say that the three largest Europe, in Europe, have shut their shutters, you know, so that's how it is. But we'll have to wait and see how they fare.
So from our perspective, there is no much demand in Europe, in that part of the world where they are setting up the plant, because there is not much manufacturing of module happening over there. But I think they are going to be exporting, and we also have export base across the globe. So we will be competing with them in future, I suppose. And we have our customer base, which will help us to continue to sell our products.
Sure. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks, and appreciate your time, and wish you all the best.
Thank you very much.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, you may press star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Vijay Gupta, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Hello?
Hello.
Yeah. This is a little correction there. I'm Vivek Gupta, not Vijay Gupta.
Hi, Vivek Ji. [Foreign language].
Yeah. Sir, I spoke with you in the last conference call also, so I'm just extending the conversation on those lines.
Yes.
I just want to understand what is the cost of glass production, which we are incurring today, versus the Chinese glass prices, which are being sold in India?
Chinese glass prices are much lower than the cost of production of glass in India, because, see, we pay all duties and taxes. We have no kind of rebate, we have no support from the government in our selling prices. So-
No, no, on cost of production, not, not the selling cost of Borosil, the cost of glass production, which you are incurring currently for production.
Just to, just to clarify, the Chinese are having subsidized costs, whereas Borosil has no subsidies whatsoever. So from that perspective, our costs are a little higher. In terms of the percentage, if you were to know what, at what price Chinese sell versus our, what our cost is, it is about 10%-15% higher in terms of our cost. So that is the kind of subsidies they have.
I wanted-
Their selling price is offset by the subsidies. Their cost may be equal, but it is subsidized.
So I was just thinking, sir, maybe this is a wrong question, but I wanted to understand if Chinese glass is available at much cheaper cost in India than the production cost which you're incurring. So why go and produce the glass itself? Just procure the Chinese glass, put the label for Borosil Renewables, and sell it to the customers.
You see, the thing is that, under the WTO, plus, if you look at the long-term intention of the government of India, the intention of the government, especially with the Prime Minister, very unequivocally, is that you have to make in India. And, there are all kinds of geopolitical reasons why India wants to lessen the dominance of China in India's economy. And, this morning, I was in a conference call with the honorable ambassador of India to China, and he was repeating the same thing, that the government is very keen that India starts producing on our own soil, the items that we need most. And, It is very much in the focus of the government that India should manufacture everything that it needs on its own soil. So they will come up with.
There are remedies available under WTO, the World Trade Organization, where it can be established that if there is any subsidy, then the WTO permits the government of the affected country to levy an anti-dumping duty on the imports of that product. That is the route we are going to follow.
For the similar reasons, what has been discussed, the government would not have levied any customs duty on import of modules and solar cells if the cost was only consideration. Because the modules are now subjected to 44.5% duty. The government could have very well done their solar program without attracting this duty at a cheaper cost, and the domestic industry would not have even grown. So that is not the kind of logic you always follow in the working of any country. The domestic production is very important, and this is a very strategic sector, energy security.
No, sir, I get that point. What I'm trying to understand is, till the time the things are not good, like, it is not rosy for Borosil, so let's just procure the Chinese glass at cheaper cost. It'll give us margins also, sell it in India to the players who are like wanting that glass also. Let's do that part and keep everything, everyone happy, like Borosil on the margin front and shareholders on the numbers side. So this is just a thought.
Yeah, yeah, you're right, but the problem is that this import duty, which is exempted, is subject to actual user. So we are not actual user in that case. If we, if we import and sell in the market, then the duty will be attracted, 15%. So it will no longer be cheaper, cheaper goods for us and for our customers. So trading is not possible. If you were using collectively for our own module production, then it was fine.
There's another issue. Under the laws of anti-dumping applications and so on, if we have imported a certain product in the past, which, on which we now are seeking anti-dumping duty, we are not even eligible to apply. So that's why, we have to stay away from it, otherwise we cannot seek trade remedies afterwards.
Okay. Okay, that helps. I have another question, sir. So I have seen that the overseas acquisition, which you have done, it has backfired to a great extent. You would believe it or not, that's a separate story, but I do believe that has backfired Borosil to a great extent. From the time we have acquired that subsidiary, so we are spending a lot of money for its maintenance. There are no numbers which are coming on that, and then we are being very hopeful of that, giving us numbers in the future. So you see that there's a debt overhang which has come up as a part of that acquisition. Now we are raising funds to clear up that debt. Not sure what was the idea behind that acquisition at the wrong point of time. Can you throw some light there, please?
When we bought the company, they had made a margin of EUR 70 million on sales of EUR 60 million. In a country like Germany, to have that kind of an margin is unthinkable. So, that is one. The second is, we had been shipping glass to Germany for many, many years, more than 12, 13 years, and this company has a very high reputation for very high quality, and it's a first-rate company. So when, the existing, the previous owners wanted to sell it, they actually evaluated us also, whether we were fit to run that company. And they said that, "You are very fit to run the company," and, we, we agreed to buy it. At that time, these issues were not there.
What we see is that, beginning from July of 2023, the Chinese have become particularly, vicious, if that's the word to use, because they have dumped their prices like anything. And I think it is just a game they are playing to establish world domination on the production of energy from renewable sources. But again, there's a very strong countercurrent to that in Germany and in the European Union in its entirety. As you probably know already, in the United States, they have imposed a 50% import duty on imports of solar cells and modules from China, so they are really very strong in encouraging domestic production. Same story in Europe. It is because Germany is ruled by a coalition government, there are three parties to that, and we know how coalition governments work.
It's taking a little time. But in the meantime, we are getting export inquiries, which we are meeting very happily, and we are investing in the German company. So, we have done it, brought in equipment which will reduce the cost significantly. So, you know, we are well attuned with the management in that company. So, we are working together very closely. Of course, we own it, but it's a fully German management, and we are working well with them. So we are hopeful about it, in short.
Mm-hmm. And sir, one last and basic question is, like, being the shareholder in the company, the thing, the company is not able to deliver on anything. I understand there is no ADD and BCD, the Basic Customs Duty also getting extended till September and all. So what keeps a shareholder motivated to be invested in Borosil in current scenario? And do you see Borosil as a takeover candidate by the bigger players in the market with which have some modules manufacturing and all, so that they could be an end-to-end cycle production which they can do in-house?
We are actually one of the thoughts we have in our head is the possibility certainly exists for us to make modules as well. And that we have not ruling it out, we have not thought about it, we have not. It's not an active proposal, but a lot of people within the organization are asking me this question: should we not be making modules? And
Mm-hmm.
So it's something which we cannot rule out, but it's just a discussion.
Sir, takeover candidate, will Borosil be a takeover candidate down the line?
We are not sellers. We are fully bullish in the industry.
Exactly.
So, I mean, we are growing the company in India as well as Germany, so there is no question about being a seller. We are continuing to invest money in CapEx month after month.
Okay. Thank you. That's all from my side.
Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Jiteen Rushe from Axis Capital Limited. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you. Thank you for taking my question. So the first question I would like to know, what would be the difference between the realization of our glass price and the Chinese imported glass price in the country?
The pricing is about the same. Maybe we are getting about 2%-3% extra, but the pricing is benchmarked to the Chinese prices, landed cost of Chinese goods, and our price is similar to that.
So because of your realization has come up, so this is for reasons you have stated, but now with-
Yeah. Reasons were explained, reasons were explained like, the Chinese have dropped the prices, the import trade rate have gone down, which is why the landed cost has gone down and which has affected the prices.
But, sir, if ALMM and DCR content requirement, I understand most of the module manufacturers in the country are using Chinese glass or from the other countries. So, don't you know, with the management's getting in discussion with the government, whether we can allow, whether they are planning for a DCR containing which we can use only domestic manufactured solar glass. Is this a proposal in the pipeline, or is it in discussion with the ministry? Something like if you can throw some light on that.
We've discussed this issue with the authorities about including ancillary products also in DCR, and it's under their consideration. And there's another matter. You see, right now what is happening, that there are severe delays in shipments of glass for those people who have very happily decided to buy glass from China, and it's going to impact their production. So one cannot just simply bank on imported products, because you never know what's going to happen when. And therefore, the people who are our customers, they're very happy that they bought from us because they continue to get the glass, and their production is not suffering.
So for the sake of a 9% cost of, where the total cost is only 9% of one component, like glass, if they suppose decide to save 10% and buy it instead of 9% at eight, 8.1%, and the entire production program goes for a toss, then, you know, that becomes a very expensive decision, that saving becomes very costly. So I think, a lot of the customers are aware about that, and therefore, they are buying some quantity from us, and they buy some quantity from imports. And, free market, everybody takes his own decision, you know?
Yeah, that's true. That's. But also utilization of yours is, like, at its peak, like, you are at 55%-90%.
Yeah, yeah.
So now with the CapEx, as you said, probably at my understanding, rights issue, you are looking to do CapEx and bring down the debt, right? CapEx will take time, because once you become profitable, you can go for the CapEx. And again, as you are looking for, you know, wind or solar as a solution to support power internally as a captive power plant. So these, and again, module, which you said that module requires a very low CapEx, like you set up a module plant, probably you already have a line, and you require a very low CapEx for these out.
So if you are looking to integrate and going with a backward integration model where you have your own power, your own module manufacturing, where you can use your own glass, so how much CapEx you are targeting to invest in for these things in next couple of years, while you are also looking for a Rights Issue to bring down your working capital? So this, these are very significant decisions for by the company, but eventually, probably it should, you know, improve your bottom line.
See, this year we are planning to spend over INR 100 crore in CapEx, and this is for balancing equipment, which is required now because the type of glass which is being demanded by the customers, in order to make that, to manufacture that, we need to spend this CapEx. And, we have the services, we have the land, we have the built-up property, where all this is going to be installed, so there is no extra on that, and we have the manpower and very highly skilled engineers and things like that. So all of this is going to just make us much stronger, really speaking.
So this, actually, this INR 100 crore includes three components. One is on the solar wind hybrid, close to INR 20 crore, which will be used in generating capacity power. INR 20 crore is for the processing equipment, where what Mr. Kheruka just mentioned, and about for 50 crore-55 crore is on the proposed rebuild of the first two furnaces. These furnaces will become for, become due for rebuild in next-
Mm-hmm.
Next one year or so, or maybe two years. So we are getting ready. We are just buying the refractories and other items for that, so that we are ready for any eventuality, and we are then able to deliver. So this INR 100 crore is broken up into three parts.
Which will be like-
If the furnace lasts longer, if the furnace lasts longer, we will happily work it. But we have to be prepared. We have to be prepared.
Okay. Okay, sir, that's all on my side, and all the best, sir.
Thank you very much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pankaj Gilat, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Hi, good afternoon, sir. I'm audible?
Good afternoon. Yes.
Okay. So my question is, in the past, Borosil used to take pride in, launching innovative product. I remember 2 mm glass, being launched some years ago. So, A, the question is, what is the traction on those, products? And, B, are we looking at product differentiation to beat the competition, or we are just, looking at, you know, pricing, as we need to in the future?
So, the 2 millimeter which we launched in 2017, we were about five years ahead of the time. The product sort of started getting traction in 2022. And, now, of course, it's a very important product, and everybody wants it, so we are fortunately ready with it. We are able to supply it. The other thing is now that they want a grid-printed glass, so there's a white paint, which is used to print the back of the glass, which improves the power generation. And, we have already implemented that, and, we have been selling that. Our product is very, very much liked, and, we are a ll the Indian glass manufacturers of solar glass do not have this. We do.
We have it, and perhaps one more has it, but nobody else has it. There is. So this is something which is coming up, and we are spending money on getting more lines to manufacture this product. We have—we are the only people in India, certainly, and very few in the world, who make a product called an Anti-glare glass, which is suitable for use near airports, because the existing solar panels, they reflect the sun into the eyes of pilots, and they cannot land there, they cannot operate the aircraft near airports. But we have developed a product which we have also sold to Indian airports and to international airports, which are able to give you solar power without giving a glare to the pilots. So that is something new that we've developed.
These things keep on happening.
This 2 millimeter glass is now almost 20%-25% of our portfolio, and which will soon become almost 60%-65% by end of this year. So this is very much in requirement now. And also the other thing, what we have done is to come up quickly is a large format glass, because there is a demand for larger module. It started to become very popular. We have been able to introduce the large sizes of glass for those modules, and which is now almost 90% of the requirement of the glass by the module manufacturer. So we have been keeping abreast of the market developments and trying to supply the products as required by the customers.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, you may press star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Jagadeesh Sharma, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thanks for giving me this opportunity. I have three questions. The first question is, I saw in the presentation that the capacity expansion is being on hold. Why is that, sir? Because I ask this question, why is this question is, when the situation is bad and we are doing our capacity and we are ready for the future, isn't that how we should be?
Yeah, so actually the CapEx plan was put on hold by the board of directors, looking at the scenario where there was no visibility of a proper return on investment. So before committing funds, and before raising any funds from the shareholders or from equity investor, one is to really see whether there is a enough amount of return on capital appearing in the projection. Before that, we cannot allocate the capital. So we decided purposely to wait for a right duty structure to be in place before we can move into this large project of say, INR 1,100+ crores. So we have put it on hold, but we will review it at appropriate time and take a decision.
Okay, okay. So my second question is, like, are you planning to enter into this EPC space? Because, this is, like, like, a new space, for all the solar related players. So are you related, are you planning to enter into this space, sir?
No, we have no wish to get into that business. Our niche is in making the manufacturing of the glass and allied ancillaries maybe, but not in the EPC or other type of businesses. We have yet to come to reasonable size of glass manufacturing, as we can say.
Okay, okay. Any guidance for FY 2025, sir?
We are doing our best, and in case the duty comes into play by first of October, this is what we are expecting. The situation in second half will be better from that perspective.
Okay, good. All the best for FY 2025. Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, you may press star and one to ask a question. A reminder to all the participants, you may press star and one to ask a question. As there are no further questions, I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Thank you very much, dear investors, for your questions. We appreciate the interest which you take in the business, and it gives us initiative to continue to work hard, to continue to do our best so that we can maximize returns for our investors. So, thank you very much, and we look forward to meeting you again after the next quarter.
Thank you. On behalf of Axis Capital Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.