Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Cemindia Projects Limited Q1 FY 2027 earnings hosted by ICICI Securities Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference to Mohit Kumar from ICICI Securities. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Manav. Good afternoon. On behalf of ICICI Securities, I welcome you all to the Q1 FY 2027 earnings call of Cemindia Projects Limited. Today, we have with us from the management, Mr. Jayanta Basu, Managing Director, Mr. Nitesh Sharma, CFO, and Mr. Rahul Agarwal, Head of Investor Relations. We will begin with the opening remarks from the management, which will be followed by Q&A. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Mohit. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us today for the Q1 FY 2027 results call. This is Nitesh Sharma, CFO of Cemindia Projects Limited. Before we begin, I would like to mention that our discussion today may include certain forward-looking statements relating to Cemindia Projects. These statements are based on management's current expectations and assumptions and are subject to risks and uncertainties that would cause actual results to differ materially. I shall begin with an overview of the financial performance for the quarter, following which our MD, Mr. Jayanta Basu, will take you through the company's operational performance. We are pleased to report a healthy start to the financial year, with continued growth in both revenue and profitability. During Q1 FY 2027, operating income increased by 6% year-on-year to INR 2,721 crores from INR 2,576 crores in the corresponding quarter last year.
This reflects a steady execution across our project portfolios. EBITDA grew at 9% year-on-year to INR 285 crores compared to INR 261 crores in Q1 FY 2026. EBITDA margin improved to 10.5% from 10.1%. Profit after tax increased to INR 141 crores from INR 137 crores in Q1 FY 2026, representing a growth of 3% year-on-year. Order flow continues to remain strong. During Q1 FY 2027, we secured orders worth INR 8,519 crores. In July, we added another INR 247 crores of new orders, and we are presently handling projects valued at approximately INR 990 crores. Overall, this represents new orders of approximately INR 10,756 crores, providing strong revenue visibility, supporting growth and execution momentum over the coming quarters. Now, I would request Mr. Basu to take you through the operational performance.
Thank you, Nitesh, and I welcome all of you to this call for Q1 FY 2026-2027 results of Cemindia Projects Limited. As you can see that our Q1 performance for this year has been steady, compared to previous quarters. EBITDA around 10.5%, PAT 5.2%, and revenue around INR 2,700 crores, which is to be INR 700 crores year back per quarter. There is substantial increase, and there are plenty of opportunities. As you can see that our working and position is quite healthy as on date. Today, around INR 31,000 crores we work in hand, which is to be normally INR 18,000, INR 20,000 previously, as you know. We will be continuously pursuing to secure more job in the segments where we want to work. Interestingly, that in first quarter, we have secured more than INR 8,000 crores of jobs as compared to INR 2,900 crores secured during first quarter of last year.
Almost 3 x increase in work secured in this quarter compared to previous year's same quarter. I hope that this same momentum will be maintained and that's because there are a lot of opportunities. Naturally, we have to also internally be prepared to grab those opportunities and execute them. We are prepared for that. We are specially focusing on our team and some transformations also is going on. We are focusing mostly on digitalizations of various activities, technology part, use of technology, basically use of technology in construction method, use of technology in project planning and monitoring method, usage of AI. All these things are being pursued. There is routine follow-up from the board members and the senior management team. We are getting prepared also to handle the revenue jump that we are expecting now from this opportunity.
About the present projects, as all of you know, mostly all of you know that we have secured two metro jobs, one in Pune, one in Delhi Metro underground. Those are under population states, Pune has progressed a lot. Delhi Metro just started. In addition to that, we have secured a job at West Bengal, Burnpur, for Steel Authority of India Limited, which involves huge quantity of structural fabrications work, which we are used to normally because we have done plenty of airport work very recently. That is something. Beyond that, from the group also, we have secured around INR 6,000 crore jobs, and two of them are major. One is at Munger, which is elevated corridor plus at-grade road, and Morsagar in Rajasthan, irrigation canals and stuff like that. I think the opportunities are there. We are doing well.
I'll be happy to answer any questions going forward. That's all from my side now. Thank you.
Thank you very much, sir. We will now begin the question- and- answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question, may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We have our first question from the line of Jainam Jain from DAM Capital. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, congratulations on numbers. My first question is, we have received order for civil work for HVDC substation in Rajasthan. I am assuming that we have received this order from one of our group companies. I wanted to understand whether we are planning to expand our EPC work in T&D segment as well.
T&D segments, no. Because I do not know which one you are mentioning. We have received the order for Morsagar
HVDC.
Which is?
Substation building work.
Which is Morsagar generation work. HVDC was a very small work.
Yeah
Which is a part of existing airport. That was assigned to their T&D segment. We do not have to go to that segment right now.
Okay, sir. Second, sir, we have recently approved a fund raise of INR 5,000 crores via QIP. Sir, we are already a net cash company, and we have a gross level of INR 18 billion. So against that, a fund raise of INR 50 billion is a quite significant number. Just wanted to understand the purpose of this fund raise.
Yeah, it is to, as you know, that if you have to grow, you require money, as simple as that. Many jobs require new plant and equipment and investment for the various category of investment. It is capital, basically. Anticipating that, coming growth, we have decided to go ahead with this QIP.
Okay, sir. That answers my question. Thank you so much, and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Bhalchandra Shinde from Motilal Oswal Financial Services. Please go ahead.
Hello. Hi, sir. Sir, would like to know what kind of ordering flows we are expecting for FY 2027, and across the segments, if you can mention where we are seeing a good traction for the orders.
Yeah. I think, our target to secure around INR 25,000 crores, around that in whole year, this FY 2027. We have already in first quarter secured INR 8,000 crores. So balance another INR 20,000 crores, INR 17,000 crores, INR 20,000 crores is not a very I don't think it's a challenge ending up with INR 25,000 crore new order this year. Mostly it will be underground metro, marine, roof panel, and PSP hydro projects in this segment, and data center as well. If you see that in total at various stages, like some in tender, some MIT, not including tender, some already submitted some bids, some in the horizon, close to INR 90,000 crore plus visibility is there today.
Okay.
Opportunities are available today. That is long and short about the prospect.
On the execution front, on the existing order book, what kind of an execution cycle we should expect, and should we expect over next few quarters, the execution growth will be much better than this quarter?
Yeah. Sometimes what happens, some one-off or two-off jobs create problems. Otherwise, normally, execution is three-year time cycle. You can roughly estimate what will be the progress. Apart from that one-off or two-off job, we have got monsoon effect next quarter. I am not very particular about Q2, because Q2 for all the company goes little thin, but Q3, Q4 progress will be definitely better than Q1. And some of the jobs which we have secured recently, they will start producing also from quarter 3. Yes, the progress will be ramping up in Q3, Q4.
Got it. Thanks, sir. And congrats on that.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Dhananjay Mishra from Centrum Broking. Please go ahead.
Hello, sir. Congratulations on very strong order inflow. Sir, in marine segment, apart from this Vadhavan order which we are expecting, any other new project in port segment we are expecting some order?
Yes, marine Vadhavan, of course, is there. I mean, all know. We have a few jobs overseas at Oman and one Middle East, that is in U.A.E., two marine jobs we are pursuing. Bangladesh also, we are pursuing one or two jobs, all are marine. We have got Tuticorin Outer Harbour, which will come eventually sometime. Vizag Port, there is some job. We have altogether, roughly speaking, INR 15,000 crores of marine jobs in the pipeline. I mean, towards the lower side, if you say INR 15,000 crores of marine jobs are in pipeline, yes.
Okay. So INR 15,000 for this financial year in terms of pipeline or it will overlap?
I mean, INR 15,000 crore jobs we have to tender, and some of them will be matured, some of them we will gain, some we will lose. So today, we are dealing with the tender of INR 15,000 crores of marine jobs.
Okay. This road tunnel job we have mentioned. Which kind of project we are expecting this road tunnel?
See, now, slowly the focus of the government is shifting from the elevated to underground because of obvious reason that space congestions and elevated does not look good. It is not only one or two jobs, like Bangalore, we have got road tunnels. Similarly, in Mumbai also, as you know, there are few road tunnels. So there will be plenty of such kind of business going forward. Specifically, if you ask me, then there are jobs in Brahmaputra River. Below Brahmaputra, there are road tunnels, and in Mumbai, Gaimukh road tunnels, Bangalore road tunnels. These are very specifically you can see now.
How is the competition in this segment, in tunnel segment overall?
Competition is part of our business, so it will remain as usual.
Okay, sir. We are maintaining our this FY2027 guidance in terms of revenue.
Yes.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Vaibhav Shah from JM Financial. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Sir, what would be the Adani Group share in the current order backlog?
The order which we have secured, step by step I will tell. Around INR 8,000 crore we have secured. Out of that, INR 6,000 crore from Adani Group and INR 2,500 crore from the outsider. Today, backlog of INR 31,000, Adani will be around-
53%. Say 50/50. It is almost 50/50 now, as on date.
Okay. Incrementally, we were targeting roughly INR 17,000 crores of inflow in the remainder of the year. That also should be broadly in the similar mix from group and outside.
We cannot say because if we get. It depends upon how much you secure from external, it depends upon that. So percentages may vary.
But the pipeline which you mentioned, roughly INR 90,000 crores, that is mix in that would be similar, 50/50 from group and outside, the prospect pipeline?
I have to calculate now. You can presume same, 50/50.
Okay. Sir, what was our gross debt as of June and the cash levels?
At INR 1,000 crores. The gross debt was at INR 1,000 crores, and net debt position was at INR 700 crores.
Okay. Sir, lastly, on the Bangladesh orders, what would be the outstanding backlog and the receivables, and is the execution ominous now?
Bangladesh, I'll answer your last question first. The execution is absolutely under control. We hope by few months from now, which is September or October, we'll be able to complete the whole job as far as we are concerned. Receivable is around INR 1 78 crores. There is some retention there. This is a normal payment cycle, so I don't think there is any issue on that.
Okay. Sir, we maintain our revenue guidance would be around 20%-25%, which you mentioned last time, growth?
Yeah, 25%.
Okay. Thank you, sir. Those were my questions.
Thank you.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Aditya Sahu from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thanks a lot for the opportunity. I did get cut out in between, so in case, I may have a few questions that might be repeating. My first question was with respect to the L1 in the total order book. So of the INR 31,000 crore order book that we have, how much of that would be L1 as on date?
No, INR 31,000 crore job, we are working hand.
Okay.
Already secured, already available with us.
Okay. Sorry, L1, how much L1 do we have as on date, if you could tell?
Around INR 900. Around INR 1,000 crore.
Understood, sir. On the Vadhavan port execution, I think we were facing some issues on that front, even during the previous quarter. How is that panning out right now?
Vadhavan port execution is yet to start. There are a lot of issues that's to be sorted out, which is beyond our purview, beyond our scope. We expected that those will be done, but it is still going on. But things are moving very positively. The government has taken very active action. There are cooperations from all corners. I hope that it will resume soon. But it's not in our control. We have to wait and see.
Any timeline that you're seeing over here in terms of the execution, or are we still waiting on that?
If we start the work, if there's no hindrance, we can tell that is the timeline. But we don't know when we'll be able to start the work. That is, as I told you, not in our hands.
Okay. On the bid pipeline, if I'm not wrong, that would be INR 90,000 crore would be our total bid pipeline as of date.
Yes. Bid means it is not totally under bid. Bid plus something which is visible, which will be bid in the days to come, things like that.
Understood. On the CapEx front, I think the last time we had guided a CapEx of about INR 350-INR 400 crores. Is that similar on the CapEx front, and what would be the CapEx that we would have done in Q1?
Q1 we did INR 80- odd crores, INR 81- odd crores additions.
Yes, so this year also, it will be, as you said, INR 350-INR 400 crores. There could be some exceptional job where we may have to buy some extraordinary plant and machinery, and in that case, the CapEx scenario will totally different. Otherwise, normally, it will be around INR 350-INR 400 crores.
Okay. Understood, sir. On the net debt to equity, how much would that be for the month as on June, if you can help me with that?
As on June, net debt to equity was 0.28.
Understood, sir. In the Bangladesh project, we were earlier sort of planning to get the execution done by June 2026. Now we are guiding that at September 2026. What would have caused that change in the timeline over here?
Actually, this execution, I think it was planned earlier also, around September, October, which we are able to maintain. What happened during the monsoon, which has just started now, it is sometime unpredictable that whether we will be able to work or not work, because Bangladesh is a perennial river, and the fluctuations for the river water is quite high. Sometimes the current is very high, so it is a matter of chance.
More of a climate issue, monsoon delay, I suppose what I would.
What happened that we thought that we will not be able to. You know what we are doing actually, we are doing foundation for the transmission tower. These are done in deep water. Sometimes the whole work goes underwater, so it is very difficult to construct. We have a different technology being adopted now. We are overcoming the situation. We will be able to complete the job as per our plan, what we have done earlier. I do not think there is any issue on that.
Understood, sir. Just one last question. If you can provide the receivable days and the net working capital days as on June 26.
Trade receivables stood at roughly 69 days. This included retention as well.
Understood.
The net working capital was around 120 days.
120 days. Understood, sir. That is all. Thank you so much, sir.
Yeah.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Manish Ostwal from Nirmal Bang Securities. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Am I audible?
Yeah.
Thank you, sir. First question on the project execution side. We are hearing, sir, that there is some kind of labor and technical people shortage in the project execution. Are you seeing in our project execution this kind of problem, and how we are tackling the situation?
I think you are right that technical, I don't know, but labor shortage is always a problem.
Still cutting.
Manish, there is some echo in your voice from the management.
Sir, that is from Manish's line. Manish, can you please use your handset?
Hello. Yeah, now I am handset.
Okay.
Very well.
Okay.
Shortage is.
Labor crisis is always there because the volume of construction has increased leaps and bound. If you see the construction we used to do in our country before five years back, now it is quite high. Naturally, that is one number. Number two, most of our, whom we call workmen, they are now migrating to different kind of profession, which is a little bit of white-collar type of job. That is a challenge. It is not just for us, all the Indian construction company going through the challenge, and we are trying to handle that. Yes, you are right. There is some issue of the labor shortage.
Okay. The second, sir, you said, the company is planning to raise INR 500 crores from QIP. The current order book is around INR 31,000 crores, and we have a net worth of around INR 2,500 crores. The kind of capital you are raising, that means the company is seeing a superlative growth in order books in next two, three years, maybe a lakh crore order book. That is what the signal from the growth capital, we should take it?
Yeah, I think it is up to you to speculate what is for that. But definitely, there is a planning, which may not be fair on my part to reveal now. But definitely, it is related to growth.
Hello. The participant got disconnected. We will move on to the next participant. The next question is from line of Rohit Natarajan from Axis Max Life. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Thank you for this opportunity. My question is more related to the capability part of the company, as in the sectors right now you are focused on maritime structures, urban infra, industrial structure, data center, water, highway, foundation, and civil engineering, maybe some sort of a hydro dam, tunnels and irrigation. Is there any other sectors that you wish to get into, strategically?
Strategically, we have already started data centers. As you have seen that we secured some job in data center, and we have been executing them quite well now. That is something, a new addition to our portfolio and then capability building up. Similarly, we are trying to get into the other prospective segments, maybe high-speed rail, nuclear power. Those are in plan now.
Got it, sir. Is there any other areas like residential commercial buildings that can also be explored as such?
I don't think we have got any focus on residential building or commercial building. Of course, if we get some signature project, because we already have the capability to do building work. We are doing that in few places. If we have signature project which makes sense for us to go, we'll try to do that.
Okay. And within power, if you could elaborate more on, will you be doing the BOP part? Is that something or maybe some other allied works to the renewable transmission? If you could touch on those aspects.
Now, power, as you know that there are various source of power, like thermal, like hydel, PSP also part of hydel. Then you have got solar, and you have got wind, etc. Thermal, as I said that it starts from the intake system, and that is our intake power of intake system on a power plant, and then material handling system, coal handling system, which is stacker-reclaimer, and the conveyor, and the transfer tower, etc. Then coming to the main power plant, of course, we don't do chimney and cooling water tower. Rest of the structures like turbine buildings and all that we do. If we get an opportunity, we'll do that. That is thermal power plant. In hydel, it's a basically mining job, tunnels, deep excavations and stuff like that. That is a common work we do.
We are doing also for three jobs like Chitravathi and few jobs in North India. We are doing that. For solar, of course, it is a different kind of thing. Solar, we have got huge amount of small structure like pile foundation that we are doing at Khavda in a mass quantity. For the turbine part, wind turbine, I don't think there is not much scope available now, but we are definitely focusing something if it comes in the marines front, like what has happened in the North Sea, that very big foundations for the wind power turbines. If it comes, we are willing to do that.
Got it, sir. One is that organically, you can develop this capability, qualification, and obviously the client access as such. But inorganically, will you be open to acquire a company and build up this capability? Which one will be the easier route?
If you grow organically, which is easy because you know the subject, you have to grow by volume. Inorganic growth in a construction company is always difficult because it has to go through a learning curve, and that is very painful, as we have seen before. It's always better to acquire some company. As of this moment, we don't have such plan. In case, if it comes, we have to plan for such kind of acquisition and go inorganic way.
Got it, sir. Essentially, I was trying to understand this INR 5,000 crore kind of a QIP. Technically speaking, it should either build up the capability, qualifications, or some adjacencies, new sectors where you have not explored, or maybe if it's going through organic route. I'm just trying to figure out how could we allocate such a big capital?
Yeah, I think it's a mix of both. You have rightly assessed that inorganic growth also in plan, but definitely, I cannot tell you that which segment we want to grow and what means. The detailing part is not there. But yes, part of this capital will be infused for the inorganic growth as well. O rganic also, if we have to grow, nowadays, sophisticated plant and machinery cost a lot, and in many projects, they are not allowed if it is beyond five years old. So there is a lot of capital investments as in this case, even organic growth also. So put together, that was the planning. Yeah.
Got it, sir. Thank you. That's it from my side. All the best.
Yeah. Thank you.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Abhinav from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah, sure. Thanks for the opportunity. My question is on the data center front. If you can help us understand what our scope is exactly and how have we developed your execution capabilities in this? That will be number one. Secondly, in terms of megawatt terms, the ordering for that we have received, what will be the number in terms of megawatt? Thirdly, what will be the opportunity size in the coming quarters from this particular segment?
Is this regarding data center?
Yes, yes.
Yeah.
Okay. Data center. First of all, I'll clarify that location-wise. We have already started working in Navi Mumbai. It is close to one year that we are working in Navi Mumbai. And we have got there three 140 MW. Correct? And two , 30 or 40 MW.
30 MW.
30 MW, two and three, 140 MW , 130 MW. So these five are already in progress. Civil structures are already in place. I mean, being constructed. In addition to that, we have secured some data center-related job in Vizag, which is basically civil structure for the time being. Electromechanical may come in future. And there are some prospects in also. In terms of the megawatt, totally it will be around-
320.
Yeah, around 320-400 MW on which we are working now.
Yeah. In terms of opportunity in the coming quarters?
Opportunities are plenty, but we are trying to limit ourselves to a certain extent, which is possible by us to deliver, but there are a lot of opportunities there.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
We have our next question from the line of Nikhil Kanodia from Sunidhi Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. Am I audible?
Yes, yes.
Yeah. Good afternoon, sir, and congratulations on your high receivable order book. You have said about your marine opportunity of INR 15,000- odd crore in the bid pipeline, and you have recently scope on data centers. I wanted to understand from you, what is the total bid pipeline that is looking at? What is the iteration like segment-wise, if you can give the broad-based breakup of the opportunity size that is coming up in years to come?
Ballpark INR 90,000, each 15%, and if I have to divide it segment-wise, six segments, each you can say INR 15,000 -INR 20,000 crores. All are equal opportunity except building, which is very less. Generally speaking, INR 15,000-INR 20,000 is the size of opportunity for per segment. W hen I say per segment, it is marine, underground metro, and airports, and data centers, highway, bridges, and some waters.
Sir, hit ratio, you said 15%, right?
Yeah. I mean, earlier it used to be better, 20%. The more you tender and the volume becomes more, hit ratio also comes down with that. 15%, you can say.
Okay, sir. Understood. Of the INR 5,000- odd crore enabling resolution that you have passed for your QIP, wanted to understand if there are immediate plans to raise any amount and what could be that deployed for. You mentioned that the entire thing can be towards building up capacities, plant machinery, everything. What amount can we see any plans that we might do some CapEx in this year itself, or what is the plan going ahead?
See, it is a time-consuming issue. Once it comes, I don't think much of them will be utilized this year. Progressively, we have to utilize.
Timing purely depends on market plus the kind of near-term visibility now-
Yeah
as we are bidding and we are trying to convert these bids into orders. The pure timing is contingent upon the market condition and near visibility. Yeah.
Oh, yeah. Okay.
Sir, one last thing I wanted to know on your Q1 number. This is, what is the position for your receivables, payables, retention, and the consequence of the working capital, basically.
Sir, trade receivables, including retention, as I said earlier, stood at 69 odd days.
The overall net working capital was at 120 days, which comprised of inventory of around 30 odd days with WIP of 69 days.
Sorry, sir, I lost you. Inventory, you said is 29 days.
Inventory is of 30 days.
30 days, okay.
WIP included of 107 days, and the net working capital stood at 120 days.
Okay, sir. Those are my questions. Thank you, and all the best, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Vishal Periwal from PL Capital. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, on the margins front, can you give some perspective on the order book that we have, 50/50 between Adani Group and external. So how it is structured, fixed price, and complete pass through?
No, with Adani Group, it is a competitive bidding. There is no fixed price. In certain cases, we get material free of cost. You can compare it with normal tenders as you do for the external client. There are some advantages somewhere nowadays because you have seen that some government agency has reduced the performance guarantee from 10% to 5%. That is the advantage we have. M argin side, as you have seen that 10% + in that range, double digits, I hope that will be maintained. Is that answer your question or you have something specific?
Yeah. No. Basically, I was coming to in terms of margin, probably the cost inflation that system has seen in the last five, six months. Do we see double-digit margin for us, or is that cushion is coming from the nature of our contract, which is having a pass-throughs, or we have a buffer that we maintain the time of bidding, so, yeah.
I meant to say that nature of contract doesn't change, so I think it's quite predictable. But what is the variable part is the geopolitical situation. There is obviously some effect of the war going on, sometimes scarcity of the essential commodities. Sometimes we are not able to send the material. We are working in Abu Dhabi, and work is going on full swing. There is absolutely no problem. But something may happen sometimes, so that is unpredictable. But always we build up some cushions and safety factor in our estimate in such kind of job. And so far, it has been demonstrated that we are able to manage within the cost provision, and here also, it will be like that.
Okay. Maybe one last thing. In terms of order book, what could be the export share in this?
What is that?
What is the export?
Okay. Around 2% - 3%.
Okay. Maybe if I can just squeeze in, sir, in terms of revenue growth-
Yes
I think there has been a dry season, lack of monsoon. In terms of execution, we could still see, probably it is a little bit on the lower side. You are maintaining the guidance and things could be better. But any benefit that you see for us, the late monsoon or lack of rains that could have in terms of better execution for us or any color that can be provided?
Execution first quarter, as I told you that sometimes one or two jobs create problems. Here also, the Vadhavan port, which is a sizable job for us, we expected that it will start, but we have not done anything on that. A large chunk of revenue and work we are not able to get from this project. Similarly, three jobs we have secured at the gestation period like Delhi Metro and Pune Metro will result after a few quarters or from third quarter. That is why you could see that INR 2,700 crore revenue apparently looking less compared to what we have done last year. But if you compare it with the two years back to three years back, it is quite good. We used to do INR 700 crore per quarter. We are doing INR 2,700 crore, which is sizable increase.
Okay. Sure, sir. I think this is helpful. I will come back in the queue. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thank you. Sir, just to understand, are we only continue to have the EPC business, or is there also a plan that we can also look at the projects where we need to put our equity?
Not really, unless there is some special interest by the group. So far, we are trying to maintain the way we used to work in the EPC business.
Okay. In terms of CapEx, you mentioned INR 350 crore-INR 400 crore kind of a CapEx for this year, but you said that could be exceptional where we need to buy a specific machinery. What could be that? Going forward, obviously CapEx is linked to the kind of execution that we want to do. This year, though we are saying that our 25% kind of a growth will be there. Going forward, given the order book and the inflow kind of an opportunity we have, two, three things which are linked together. One, are we looking at minimum kind of a 20% kind of a growth for next couple of years?
If that is the case, in terms of the CapEx, given whatever the nature of work we are doing, this kind of INR 400 crore, INR 500 crore kind of a CapEx, is this sufficient or are we thinking kind of any specific project where maybe we need to do more than INR 1,000 crore kind of a CapEx?
It purely depends upon what kind of new job we will be doing. If you do like normal what we do, marine, road, industrial buildings, airport and all, the CapEx requirement will be the same what we have seen today, INR 300 crore, INR 400 crore, INR 500 crore in that range. But the moment you go for something like large diameter tunnel for the road, where essentially requires tunnel boring machine, which are pretty costly. So that's why I said that in such situation our CapEx requirement will be much more.
Okay. No, because what we are trying to understand is this INR 5,000 crore kind of a QIP that we are looking at, given if you are able to maintain a 10%+ kind of a margin, 20%+ kind of a growth, and then this kind of a CapEx. So actually, we don't need any kind of equity. The business model is self-sufficient. So where this money will be used, and this is a huge amount. So that's what we are trying to understand.
As we said, there are opportunities and we have to prepare for that, and one of the preparation is to have enough money to handle the situation. That is why we have gone for that. If we require, and if we don't get time, that money to raise, it will be problem. So that is the idea.
Okay. But current order book and the kind of inflow that we are looking at, 20%-25% kind of a growth at right now, is this doable for couple of years?
Yeah, it's quite possible. 20%-25% growth coming few years is quite okay. Yeah.
Okay. Thank you, and all the best.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Bhavya Gandhi from Bajaj Alternate Investment . Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, just rechecking, you mentioned INR 90,000 crore is the bid pipeline and 15% is the hit ratio. Is that the right understanding?
Yes.
Roughly INR 13,000 crore is the order inflows that one can expect?
Yes, you are right.
Or INR 90,000 crore is after calculating the 15% hit ratio?
No.
No, not right. Okay.
[INR 90,000 into 0.15] .
Yeah, got it, sir. In terms of competition, sir, if you can just explain in terms of capability, where do we stand out? Usually for the project that we bid, how many players are there in the queue? Is there any certain segment where we have some moat compared to other players, where we have the right to win? If you can explain on that front as well.
See, the competition is something which depends upon many factors. It is not the competency of the contractor. A competent contractor will put a proper price, and that price may be high than the party who has put a price which is, who are not competent and doesn't understand the job. It's very difficult to predict that if you are competent, whether you'll be able to compete with the price or not. I don't know whether there is any theory, but it's very difficult and sometimes it depends on the strategy of the company also.
Correct. Particularly, sir, in terms of maritime infrastructure, I believe there are only two players in the country. Is that the right understanding, or are there any more players beyond the two, three players?
Yeah. Basically, it is three players, but sometimes there are other player also tries to get into that. I will not tell the name. You can consider five players in this.
Okay. S ir, what would be the peak debt level, if you can just explain based on the order book that you have and also on the working capital that you will require for the current order book. Absolute number would also help.
Say, INR 1,000 crore.
INR 1,000 crore is the current debt position, which definitely would suffice to handle this kind of growth of 20%.
Gross debt.
INR 1,000 crore gross debt, you do not expect it to rise further? That is what I am trying to understand.
In the range of 10%-20%, because we have assessed the limit, plus we have also got an additional limit in place. So 20%, 25% growth in the gross debt also will suffice for this at least 25% growth in the top line.
Okay. In terms of working capital, similarly, if you can provide some number.
Working capital would be in the same range only, 110-120 days.
111.
Yeah. That is what the all efforts are.
I think for the larger interest of the investor community, everybody is just thinking more about the INR 5,000 crore because our asset base is closer to INR 1,100 crore and we are planning to raise INR 5,000 crore. I mean, is that the aspiration, that is the higher amount, or that is what you really want to raise in terms of QIP, the entire INR 5,000 crore?
No. That's an enabling thing and this would be completely dependent on the orders which we are trying to secure in the near future, but also on the market conditions as well.
By the simple multiplication, can we assume if your current base is INR 1,000 crore and if you are raising closer to INR 4,000 crore-INR 5,000 crore, can the order book also multiply by 5x going forward? Is that the right understanding?
Not really, because as I told you that, say, if we secure another INR 25,000 crore of jobs, that INR 25,000 crore or, say, INR 20,000 crore this year. That INR 20,000 crore job, it comes from the normal stuff like what we do, like marine and airport, like road and all. You require a CapEx of present current year, which is INR 300 crore-INR 400 crore. But if that INR 20,000 crore includes one road tunnel, which will be around INR 10,000 crore, and that INR 10,000 crore requires a huge CapEx. So it is subjective.
Yes.
It depends.
Like I think in the range of 3x to 4x order book is possible over the next coming years. Is that the right understanding, if you can verify that?
Yeah. If you see that last year we have secured the order of INR 14,000, INR 15,000 crores. This year we are planning to secure more than INR 25,000 crores. I think it will be incremental every year. I do not know 2x, 3x, but-
Got it.
Yes. Yeah.
That's what. Yeah, should be it. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Thank you.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Gurpreet, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Am I audible?
Yes.
Yes, sir. We can understand, given the nature of the industry, we can have lumpy quarters. Now, with the record order book of INR 31,300 crores, can you give us a specific revenue growth guidance range for FY 2027 and FY 2028? Also help us understand why revenue growth is decelerating relative to order book growth. What are the bottlenecks? Is it receivable or mobilization delays? Can you just unpack this for us?
Yeah, I think the statistics sometimes mislead ourselves because as I have maintained, the third time I am saying that two years back, three years back, we used to do INR 700 crores per quarter. Now I do INR 2,700 crores. That is because last year we have done better, we are looking less. Of course, in terms of order booking, we should have done a little bit more, I agree with you. Specifically, two jobs, one is at Vadhavan, a big job which we have secured, but we have got zero production there because of obvious reasons. We do not have much control. Then three big order we have secured. One is at Munger, one is at DMRC, and one is at Pune Metro, which comprising around INR 10,000, INR 12,000 crores of order which are secured. We could not do any progress because we have just secured them.
It requires design, and it will be taking six to seven months time to start the work. Out of INR 30,000 crore, around INR 12,000 crore order which is available with us, where there is no progress so far because of the initial mobilization is going on. These are the couple of reasons and some impact of the war in Abu Dhabi, a few months, there are a little bit of mute in the progress. All these have factored this revenue of quarter 1 little less than what is expected.
What is the revenue growth guidance you would give for FY 2027 and FY 2028?
25%.
25% growth?
Yes.
Okay. Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Mihir Manohar from TRUST Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks for giving the opportunity. Sir, little bit better sense. I know when we see this quarter, 6% topline growth. For full year, we are looking at 20%-25% topline growth. I mean, is it a case where certain projects were not able to meet the billing threshold, and consequently, there is a lower growth, and that we get compensated for billing some part of the year? How do we get a confidence on that 20%-25% guidance that you are giving us?
Like Munger, like Pune Metro, like Delhi Metro, like Morsagar , comparing this, all four jobs put together will be around INR 10,000 crore-INR 12,000 crore job where we didn't get any revenue last quarter. This will be finally after quarter 1 soon, we will get the revenue from these projects. And then one job, which is at Abu Dhabi, it is just picking up now. Hardly we are doing a progress which is half the requirement, and again, another two, three months time we'll progress. So with that four, five jobs which will be picked up, we are confident that we are able to do the overall revenue of this year, what we have predicted.
Okay. The job work is sitting in contract assets.
Yes.
Okay, understood. Sure. Second question was on the INR 5,000 crore fundraise that you are looking into. How much would be pure organic CapEx into it? Any broad cut number of organic CapEx requirement which could be there for us?
Again, as MD said that few of the jobs may have large CapEx requirements, anything in the range of, say, INR 4,000 crore-INR 5,000 crore, depending on, again, how many number of orders or how many number of work we get in hand.
Sure. Just last question was on, if I assume a similar 20%-25% growth next year also, I believe we have sufficient cash for the working capital purposes, which will be needed for executing INR 520, right? The INR 5,000 crores fundraise does not require a FY 2028 execution. Is that understanding correct?
Yeah. It would be a mix of both things, because large orders would definitely also require some working capital support as well. This INR 5,000 or say, whatever the number would be finally, this is on the orders. Largely, it would be towards your CapEx, and then a portion of that would be for the working capital as well.
No, but does the existing order book, INR 30,000-INR 31,000 crores, does the execution of that order book require more incremental working capital-
As of now,
from pure equity perspective?
No. As of now, with the current orders in hand, the current set of working capital, what we have and the cash or in limit what we have is okay. It is enough to support those executions.
Okay, understood. Yes, sure. That is it from my side. Thank you.
Thank you. Sure.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Bhavin Modi from Anand Rathi. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, just a bookkeeping question, sir. Do you have the numbers handy with respect to what was the cash flow from operation during this quarter 1?
It's not in my hand as of now, but we can give you the-
Okay. I shall take it.
Yeah.
Sir, second, what is the status of the Bangalore underground tunnel project, which was won by the Adani Group? What is the status with respect to the LOA?
Adani is, I think, waiting for the LOA from the government.
Okay.
That is the status today.
Okay. Sir, the last thing is, the promoter, the Adani Group has been placing the bids for many BOT projects in Maharashtra and Uttar Pradesh. Are we open for the back-to-back EPC arrangement for such projects?
Yes, of course.
Got it. Yeah, that's it from my side, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Nipurn Khemka from CD Research. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. My question was particularly regarding, is there any material change in the nature of our urban and marine infrastructure orders in the last five years?
Not really. We have been doing the work, same segment, what we have to do, what we used to do before. Will you specify your question? Do you have anything very specific?
No, specifically, I wanted to know, is there any change in terms of, let's say, the technical complexities or, let's say, the size of the order or the execution risk which we may face because of the rapid growth we have seen in the last couple of years? So that-
I got it.
Yeah.
See, normally the size of the project has been bigger and bigger.
Okay.
Earlier we used to do INR 300 crore-INR 400 crore job. Now we are doing INR 1,000 crore-INR 2,000 crore-INR 3,000 crore jobs. So in terms of volume, we have to handle more volume nowadays.
Of course, when you do INR 300 crore job in three years and INR 3,000 crore job in three years, there must be something different in technology you have to use. So you have to use machines which are faster. You have to have method which are more efficient. So there's a continuous process. That is always there. T hen, as I've told you before that we're trying to utilize the use of technology in terms of digital technologies, in terms of monitoring, planning, in certain operation also. That is something which we have started doing and giving a good result. So all these things are there in place.
Okay, sir. What will be that one core area of focus that we might be seeing for the next couple of years? Let's say that this would be the one thing that could change things materially for us. If you can point to it specifically, is there anything that you're planning?
It is purely technology. If we do today 10 meter for something, some problem, we should do 20 meters by another one or two years' time. That is what construction industry goes about, the progress and progress.
Okay. Thank you, sir. That is from my side. Thank you.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Jayesh Shah from OHM Portfolio Equi Research. Please go ahead.
Hello. Thanks for the opportunity.
Sir, first one, bookkeeping question. This Ganga Expressway, you said the project is largely over, but if I recall right, the tolling has started here by May. Is that true? Or how much of the job is left?
I don't know yet whether tolling has started, but as far as construction is concerned, it is done. It is completed.
I see. Is it lying right now as an unbilled revenue or inventory in our books, and will be booked in the coming quarter?
No, it is normal time cycle. We need time to get paid on time. There are some retention amount also there. There's nothing exceptional issues in this. Yeah.
Okay. But major part of this job is over.
Yes.
Okay. Secondly, again, I have a question again on this INR 5,000 crore QIP. If I summarize the understanding, you are saying this is only an enabling resolution where you will decide over time. Amount could be INR 5,000 crore or less, which you will decide, and this is based on your anticipation of fresh orders. Your current order book does not require any need for QIP.
Yes, you are right. Absolutely right.
Okay. These large projects, whenever you take these CapEx-intensive projects, will they still be a 10% EBITDA margin, or they could be at higher margins?
Well, this is very difficult to answer. First of all, if we adopt a different technology, we will definitely try for a job which will fetch a higher margin. Then execution also has to be seen how it goes. Yes, always focused to get better margin with this new technology, if we have invested something in the new technology.
Okay. Got it, sir. Last question is, your current year's revenue guidance of 25% implies overall revenues of INR 12,500 crores. Now, given your first quarter and second quarter trend, are we looking at a INR 5,000 crore revenue per quarter as a new normal starting from the third quarter, which would be a base new normal?
Third quarter and fourth quarter generally give better revenue, as you have seen before also in last year. Like if you see last year, our first quarter was INR 2,500 crores and second quarter was INR 2,100 crores, but quarter four was INR 3,000 crores. Similar trend will maintain. I cannot exactly say INR 5,000 crore per quarter, but it will be better, much better than this quarter one.
Yeah, but where I was coming from, sir, is that your current operations, capacity, and everything would allow you to work at INR 5,000 crores comfortably. Is it?
Yes, you are absolutely right.
Okay. Thank you very much and best wishes.
Thank you.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Aditya Sahu from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thank you. Just one question on the bid pipeline, the INR 90,000 crore bid pipeline that you mentioned. How much of that would be from the group? That is just one question.
Close to 50%.
Understood. Thank you so much. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question of the day. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Once again, thank you all for joining us on this call. I wish you all a very wonderful day. Thank you.
Thank you, sir. On behalf of ICICI Securities Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your line.