Q4 23/24

May 29, 2024

Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to ITD Cementation Q4 FY24 Earnings Conference Call hosted by ICICI Securities. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in listen only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Mohit Kumar from ICICI Securities. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Thank you, Yusuf. Good afternoon. On behalf of ICICI Securities, I welcome you all to the Q4 FY24 earnings call of ITD Cementation India Limited. Today, we are pleased to host the management of ITD, which is represented by Mr. Jayanta Basu, Managing Director, and Mr. Prasad Patwardhan, CFO of the company. Without much delay, I will hand over the call to the management for their opening remarks, which will be followed by Q&A. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us on this Q4 FY24 results phone call. Before I begin, let me mention that there could be certain statements from the management today during the call, which will be forward-looking but would be subject to several risks and uncertainties. So we would like to bring this to your attention before we move ahead. We have declared our results yesterday, and I am sure everyone has got a chance to look at the numbers. We have had a very satisfying performance during the quarter, and a stellar performance has been reported for the year ending FY24. For the quarter ending March 2024, our total operating income was INR 2,258 crores as against INR 1,631 crores in Q4 of the previous year, representing a growth of about 38%. EBITDA, INR 242 crores as against INR 147 crores, a growth of 64%. PAT of INR 90 crores as against INR 38 crores a year back, which represents a growth of about 138%. For the full year, we have reported a top line of INR 7,700 crores, which represents a growth of 52% on a year-on-year basis. Our EBITDA has also grown by about 75% during the year, and PAT margin has grown by 120%, from INR 125 crores to INR 274 crores. Our balance sheet continues to be extremely healthy, and the net debt equity ratio is under 0.2 times. During the year, we have secured new orders for about INR 6,900 crores, and our order book as of March 2024 is a little under INR 20,000 crores. This is as far as our financial performance is concerned. I will now hand over to Mr. Basu for his initial comments, and then we will take your questions. Thank you, Prasad, and good afternoon to all for joining this call. I am very happy to share the numbers what we have just heard from Prasad. The substantial growth in top line and bottom line as well during this last year. We have grown from INR 5,000 crore to close to INR 8,000 crore in top line. In PAT level also, it is almost 3.6% of the revenue, which is I think the best PAT we have in recent past. I am sure that this momentum will continue further because we have several jobs opportunity. Some of them we have already tendered, some of the tender, work is going on, and some we are yet to receive the tenders that we have identified. Those are mostly the segments where we do good, like marine, underground metro, bridge. So the kind of jobs where we normally would perform better. Going forward, our focus is to have some more jobs from the overseas market, because as we find that there are new developments happening in Middle East, West Africa, so a lot of investment from Indian government, plus they are also investing money. So there are a lot of new projects are coming where we would like to participate. So our endeavor and efforts are there to get some new jobs from the overseas market as well. Now, this year, we have seen the revenue growth and margin growth. But there are a few jobs which we have secured towards the end of the last year. Big jobs where we can only They are still in threshold limit of the margin declaration. So we have taken the revenue, so margin is yet to be declared. So which will definitely add to the bottom line second or third quarter onwards. This is what I have to say in opening statement. Now, we will be happy to answer any questions you have going forward. Thank you. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and 1 on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and 2. Participants are requested to use handset while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. First question is from the line of Nikhil Abhyankar from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead. Thank you, sir, and congrats on a very good year. My first question is regarding, at this juncture, will you be able to provide some kind of a guidance for FY 2025 in terms of revenue growth, margins and order inflows? Revenue growth, as we have been maintaining, it will be 20% plus in terms of revenue. Margin also will be commensurate to that. Order inflow, we are expecting the order in what region, one participation in the horizon goes to INR 8,000 to INR 10,000 in between, say INR 9,000 crores. Our target is to have this year's order inflow. Around INR 9,000. The margin, is there any scope to improve beyond 10% going forward? It is difficult. You see, construction industry has got their own standard margin and revenue. 10% plus is, I think, okay. If we can do something better, we will be happy. We will try for that. I think we have to live with this margin, 10%, little bit more than 10%. Sure. You mentioned in the opening remarks that you will be looking at overseas orders going ahead. What kind of opportunities are we looking at and what will be the share of overseas orders out of this INR 9,000 crore? We aim to do around 30% of revenue from overseas by another 2 years' time or 3 years' time. Today, the kind of job which we are pursuing, if we get some of them, I think it will be around 20% plus on our overseas business. Yeah. 20% plus from overseas. Okay. Just a final question. In recent years, there were a lot of road tenders which were opened in Maharashtra, almost around INR 90,000 odd crore. Did we participate? If not, why? Yes, we have. I do not know which one you are mentioning. There are many jobs, particularly coastal road and tunnel job between this special park, Sanjay Gandhi National Park. We have not participated because we found that it requires a lot of investment, particularly tunnel job, where the TBM charge is very tunnel boarding, which in charge is quite big and require a lot of investment. The stage what we have today, we have to contain our CapEx within a limit. That is the main reason. In some cases, probably there is a qualification issue as well. We have not participated because of these reasons. Okay, sir. I have got a few more questions. I will get back with you. Thank you and all the best. Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead. Hi, Jayanta sir. Congratulations on a good quarter. Thank you. Okay. Just wanted to understand from you highlighted that you will get about 8,000-10,000 crores of orders in the next year. So this factors in the election related and delays on the government formation, which may take some time, and also the order to pick up. Have you factored these while giving your guidance? Well, you see, it is not only that we are depending on the government order. Beyond that, most of the time in marine, our customers are mostly private client, like DP World, like Port of Singapore, like APM Terminals, and yes, Adani as well, JSW. All of them have got big marine jobs which we are pursuing. And yes, there are some jobs we have submitted our bid, like few metro jobs which are already there, which will definitely after July, August, they will be matured. And few jobs, it doesn't depend on the election. They're overseas job. Has nothing to do with our election result. Around four sub-job we are pursuing, and we are quite hopeful to get at least one or two, and they're big ticket jobs. What is the current pipeline in the marine segment? Because that is what is the most profitable segment for you. If you can highlight what is this pipeline there. Also, in terms of the upcoming BOT opportunities, do you think that you would continue to work as contractor towards larger players? Especially Adani, you have been doing their Ganga Expressway. Do you think you are open to exploring opportunities on taking subcontracting, at least on the NHAI road projects for leading contractors or developers? No. At the moment, we do not have such plan to the roadwork from NHAI. But if we get one more Ganga Expressway, probably we will be happy to do such work. On the marine side, sir, not directly from NHAI, but say if Adani wins some BOT toll projects or some other developer wins and he takes your support. Are you okay to give support bits to the leading developer where your scope of work will only be limited to EPC for the developer? Are you open to those opportunities? Yes. Definitely. If there is a developer, basically it depends on the due diligence of the project. Basically, we have to see whether the funds are available and the developer has got money and such kind of thing, and the location. If all these things matches, why not? If we are able to do in Ganga Expressway, we can do anywhere. In marine, of course, marine is our one of the strong area. As we just mentioned, pipeline years, there are at least seven jobs in front of my table, which we are pursuing now. All of them are INR 1,000 crores, plus minus. I mean, not minus, plus. If we get at least two of them, then that is a good deal for us. Okay. This is the last thing on the JV profits. I just want to understand from you that this year the numbers on the profit from joint ventures has declined. If you can highlight and help us understand what is the residual value of cash? Because I know we are very conservative, so I just want to understand how much of the profit is yet to be realized from underground metro projects. When do you expect it to get commissioned? Even from Kolkata Metro, anything is pending, which the TBM issue got happened, so anything there which can be realized. So, carrying value of unrecognized profit from the JV companies. If you can give some color on them. Yeah. One thing, Pranav, is that JV jobs are almost now on the finishing stage. Because if you see Kolkata Metro is completed, I think it is completed, leaving two work. Bombay Metro is almost completed, and there is no other JV jobs we are doing. So all are in the fag end, and there will be little bit of margin and cash will remain there. I do not have the number exactly yet. I can talk to you later on, but I can say that there is not much substantial contribution, neither plus or minus our cash from JV jobs going forward. Okay, sir. Sure. Only thing is I was looking at your order book guidance looks to be little bit on a muted side because now the book-to-bill of, I mean, this year maybe if you do and I think you had earlier guided close to about INR 9,500 crores of top line for FY 2025. So which means that we are just replacing our order book of INR 9,000 crores and we are still at closing maybe at about INR 19,000, INR 20,000 crores of backlog, which is two times book-to-bill. So if we need to grow from here on into FY 2026, we will need to at least get more than INR 15,000 plus crores of orders to deliver that kind of a growth. I just wanted a little bit more color and sense from you that how do you see the growth beyond FY 2025, given kind of muted info guidance for FY 2025? Yeah, we are thoroughly aware about the situation, and we are working, and there are plenty of opportunities because I have told you that we are not contained only in India. We are going overseas, and there is good overseas market as well. We have plans in place and future will tell. Okay. Sure. Thank you. Those are my questions. I wish you the best. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Prateek Kothari from Unique PMS. Please go ahead. Prateek Kothari, good afternoon, and thank you for the opportunity. My first question is on the competition. In the last call, we highlighted that be it underground metro, be it marine, it seems that more number of players have started participating and bidding for the projects. If you can highlight any change. And also in the context that currently the order inflow seems to be muted across players given elections are over there. How has the behavior been versus peers in terms of how they are pricing up? Are they dropping their margins to go out and get orders and how are we reacting to that? Well, I think this is a very constant phenomenon in any business. Today, if you are doing good margin in one segment or one particular type of job, tomorrow there will be more crowd. We have to go to new places. That is how business goes and that is what we do really. We have realized that a few segments, like small marine job is no more a profitable segment. One thing is that we have gone to bigger marine jobs or bigger jobs. If you see today our work-in hand, we may have 50 jobs in hand, but out of that, 8 jobs contribute to 80% of our revenue. The moment you go for the bigger jobs, we have less players, and fortunately because of our past we are able to get qualified as well for the bigger job. That is one thing. Second thing is that we are going to overseas market because last 2 or 3 years we have demonstrated that we can do overseas job, which is a new ball game, and we have established a team. Our market footprint is now big. Third thing is that we have got few clients and we are their delight because basically they want us to do the job. We are trying to maintain the good relationship with them to get more and more job for them. These are the strategy or the way we work to get out of this red ocean to green, blue ocean, whatever you want to say. Correct. And sir, regarding what you mentioned that top 8 customers contribute 80% of revenue. I mean, I understand that we do few large projects and we are able to concentrate on it much more, but doesn't this then create a much larger risk that if something, and historically something or the other goes wrong at some point of time. If something goes haywire, it completely affects our company as a whole. I mean, just your thoughts on how do we balance between concentration and diversifying across projects? Yeah, I think the basic has to be right. If you take a big job with poor margin, and if you execute wrong, then you are gone. That is true. Unless that is there, we are out from the zero date. That has to be first ensured that we are matured enough now to realize which job we will do, what, enough details we do, and then execute them well. If you have less amount of jobs, I mean less number of jobs, then you can control much better. It will be the balance, and your maturity and experience play in such things. Correct. Sir, there are some INR 40 crores of provision this year. Specific to any project, or this is ECL? No, it is a general provision. Basically, we have to follow the ECL regime and provide for it accordingly. So it is not related to any specific project. It is a general provision. Correct. Sir, last two data points, one, what will be your CapEx plan for FY 2025, and if you can share what was our order pipeline. Currently, what is our order pipeline? CapEx will be less than last year, because last year or second last year, we had to invest for the tunnel machines and trench cutters, so it was more than INR 450 crore plus, I think last year. This year, it will be around INR 250 crores, in that range. Order pipelines means, as we have mentioned that several overseas job and job we are pursuing, I can see around INR 25,000 crores to INR 30,000 crores jobs, different stage, either in tender or bid committed or tenders to come the coming six months, seven months time. Yeah. Sure. Thank you, and all the best. Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Vipul Kumar Anup Chand Shah from Sumangal Investments. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity, and congratulations for a great set of numbers. My question is regarding overseas biddings. Our parent will also be participating in those opportunities. How will you manage that conflict of interest? Is there any understanding that certain projects you can bid in certain areas? How it works? Yeah, that we have sorted out. If you have noticed that two to three years back, we never had been to overseas. Then we have discussed with our parent. It is not that they have interest, it is they wanted to see our ability to do overseas work. That we have demonstrated that yes, we can do and we can do well. So that is the first step. Then we discuss, of course, if they have interest, we don't go, or if we show more interest, they go away. So that is the common understanding. So there is no conflict, as a whole, to go for overseas business with our parent company. And sir, what is the order intake till date in this current financial year? Can you give that figure, please? This FY25? Yes, sir. So far, I do not think we have secured any value order. Sorry, sir? I mean, in the first quarter, I mean, this is May. In this year, we have not secured any job in the last 2 months. Sir, last question is regarding margin. So one of our Mumbai-based peers is continuously reporting 14%-15% EBITDA margin. We are very strong in marine, which naturally carries high margin. So why there is such a big gap with the peers? So what they are doing right, which we are not doing? Your comments will be welcome, sir. Yeah, if you see, the gap is coming down. We are increasing and other way around also, correct. As I said that it is not only marine job we do, because if we only depend on marine job, it's a big risk. So we do 30%-35% from marine job. Other segments like airport, corridor road what we do, we have to compete with the local players. So you might have seen the increase in the margin from last year to this year. We'll try to do better, to reach more margin. But today's scenario is that we don't have much overseas job. That is one of the reason we want to go to overseas work, because we believe margin will be better. But in India, whatever job we secure, most of the job we have to secure through competition. And there, if we have a competition, 10% margin, more than that is difficult. Okay, sir. Thank you, and all the best. Thank you. Thank you. Before we move to the next question, a reminder to the participants, to ask a question, you may press star and one. Next question is from the line of Nidhi Shah from ICICI Securities. Please proceed. Hello. I wanted to ask, what is the depreciation policy- Sorry to interrupt, Miss Nidhi. There is background noise from your end. Your voice is fading. Hello, am I audible? Yes, you are audible now. Please proceed. Okay. What is the depreciation policy for the TBM? Sorry, I did not understand. We have this instability in this. What is the depreciation policy for the TBM that we use? The previous ones depreciated. The current ones that we have in use are being depreciated over a period of 5 to 6 years. Okay. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Jiten Rushi from Axis Capital. Please go ahead. Yeah. Good afternoon, sir. Thank you for taking my question. I just wanted to ask more on the overseas generation. So these would be projects which will be funded by the multilateral agency or the Exim Bank, or it could be a project which is directly from that particular country, which is funded by the country. Yeah, our main focus is to go where there is funding by Indian Exim Bank. That is, in Bangladesh, we have secured a job funded by Exim Bank, payment being made in India. There are a few jobs where we want to go, not totally depending upon the foreign funding. There we have the associates, who we know very well, and the payment will be guaranteed. That is the first thing we have ensured, that payment should come. There are two, three models we are working. One is Exim Bank, of course, the other models we are working. Yeah, it's like that. So payment terms would be, these are fixed price contract, or you will have some escalation? How will be the payment terms here? See, basically in foreign contract, escalation normally you have to cover in your price. That is what you see in foreign contracts. Fixed price. Yes. Fixed price contracts. And sir, payment terms would be what? Because usually you get mobilization advance also, interest-free, when you do overseas contracts. I understand that you will be getting mobilization advance within these contracts. Again, the payment terms should be healthy, otherwise it becomes difficult, capital becomes a challenge. Yeah, we get mobilization advance. Like Bangladesh job we secured, and we have already got 10% mobilization advance. We have got Colombo, we have got 15% mobilization advance. Likewise, in future going forward also, we will get mobilization advance. In addition to that, there is some preliminary items, which is almost like a mobilization item. Against that you can bill initial few months to get the payment early. And sir, which segment you are targeting? Only marine or it could be non-marine, especially something like micro or some small buildings. It is mostly marine, and there are another two jobs, which are bridge and tunnel. Tunnel also is involved. PBM with TBM. In Bangladesh project, you are doing your portion which is in the river portion, right? For that Power Grid Company of Bangladesh transmission company, right, sir? Yes. Your order book would be how big and when are we targeting to complete the project, sir? Our order value will be INR 1,700 crore in terms of Indian rupees. Rupees. Yeah. This is outstanding order book? Yeah. And your completion timeline would be on December 2025? Completion time will be December 2025 or maybe early 2026. Early 2026. Okay. And sir, this is your share, not the JV partner, right? No, this is our share. I mean, 1,700, I think it may have more, said more. It is around 1,200, 1,300. That range. That is your share. That is all my questions. Thank you and all the best, sir. Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Sri Ram R, an investor. Please go ahead. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, pardon me if I am asking the same question. I joined a little late. Can you share the order pipeline for domestic marine orders? Also, what is the proportion of overseas orders in your current order book? Current order book, we have got around 9% to 10% from the overseas. That is current order book. In pipeline, domestic and overseas, almost 50/50% in marine. Sorry, sir. Come again. Domestic? For the new job what we are pursuing, in marine, at least 50% from overseas and 50% from the domestic. How is the pipeline looking, sir? In terms of the number, you are asking? Yeah. I am just asking whether we will maintain the same share of 30% for marine going forward. Yeah, that is the aim, to have 30% marine from the overseas market. Today it is mostly marine we are working, if it is overseas. Around 8,000-9,000 crores of business in marine we can see from overseas in this year. I mean, opportunity. I mean, how much we will get, that is different. Yeah. And sir, the same for domestic, what will be the opportunity? Yeah, domestic also same kind. But domestic, some jobs are going little slow, and election also is a factor. The timeline was, I cannot say anything, but the opportunities are there. That is, projects are there. Okay, sir. Thank you so much. All the best. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, to ask a question, you may press star and 1. Next question is from the line of Mehul Mehta from Nova PCG. Please go ahead. Good afternoon, team. Thanks for the opportunity. Am I audible? Yes, Mehul. Please go ahead. Congrats on great set of numbers, especially on core working capital cycle. If we look at, it is virtually flat, on 51% revenue growth. How should we see it going forward? Is there something one-off during the year or we should see this sustainable? No, we have been reporting our working capital has been in similar range throughout the year. I think you can work with the similar numbers. There may be some elongation of the working capital cycle going forward, which is normal for our business, but it should not change significantly. If I can further enter into, is that when I am looking at debtors, inventories, and creators. If I look at net of that, it is flat. Maybe, whatever non-billable revenue contract and all that, I am not looking at. I am looking at debtors plus inventory, less creators. It is virtually flat. So that is very significant achievement for me. How do you see it? Is there something one-off? Because 50% is revenue growth, whereas this net working capital cycle is flat. How should we see it going forward? That is what is my question. No, in fact, on most of our projects, we are getting payments on time. As soon as we bill as per the contractual terms, we are getting our payment. So we do not expect any significant change in the working capital cycle going forward. But over FY 2023, in FY 2024, definitely there is. It is very, what do you call, efficient working capital. There is improvement. So what I am looking at is that FY 2024 should be continuing. That is sustainable. There is nothing like an on-off kind of. Sorry to ask again. Nothing exceptional or nothing that. We are expecting this similar cycle to be sustained in the next year. It may vary there, few days here and there, but more or less it should be sustainable. Sure. One more question is in terms of, if I look at order inflows, say in FY 2023, there were about INR 8,800 crores. This year it is about INR 7,000 crores. So annual average, if we look at, it is about, what do you call, INR 7,000 to, what do you call, INR 9,000, so maybe about INR 7,500 crores kind of average. Going forward, should we look at once government stable, government is in place, Sir has explained about it, but still, can we look at substantial growth on that as compared to average INR 7,500 crores for last two years average, so should we look at it? How can we look at it? Yeah. Basically, it depends upon the size of the job, what we are bidding for. Suddenly, if we get a job of INR 4,000 crores and another job of INR 4,000 crores, the whole thing changes. It is a matter of getting two big jobs. I am quite hopeful that we will get some big ticket jobs and we will be able to achieve the order inflow what we have targeted. Yeah. What I am questioning is once government stable, because off late, there has been significant orders which has been received by kind of H.G. Infra Engineering and PNC Infratech and all. It is coming up. Are we seeing in our segment also, marine or whatever segments we are very focused. Are we seeing with stable government in place, are we seeing that kind of growth? Your outlook. Marine, there are a few big jobs from the government which will be activated after the election results are there, like Vadhavan port and then few more other jobs. In private investment from Adani Group and from the DP World and from APM Terminals, those marine jobs are domestic. There are a few jobs. Altogether, you see, Vadhavan port is nearly INR 35,000 crore job. If we are capable, if we wish, we can take a chunk of that. It is a breakwater, it is a jetty, it is a bridge. Many things which is the cup of our tea. Likewise, I say that if we get two, three jobs like that, the things will totally, the order book scenario will totally change. Beyond that, we are going to work is also trying our best. Sure. Thank you so much, and all the best. Thank you. Thank you. Next follow-up question is from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities. Please proceed. Gentle sir, just wanted one clarification. If I see over the last four or five years, your gross margin has been coming down, and whatever the gains in your EBITDA margin, they are largely coming in because of high volumes and savings, because of that, lower employee expenses as a percentage of sales and even other expenses reducing. So just wanted to understand why is gross margin declining given that marine has gone up in the mix? If you can give some color in that. I think margin is better than last year. Can you just specifically tell, Parikshit? Gross profit margins. I am talking about revenue less material cost. So that is the gross profit. Your EBITDA margins have increased, but in the mix, your gross profit margins have declined over the last few years. Parikshit, I think you need to look at the material cost and the subcontract cost together. It depends on our execution strategy and methodology. In some projects, the subcontract element may be higher and the material cost may be lower. I do not think it is right to only look at the gross margin considering the material cost. Overall, as Mr. Basu said, our margins have only improved and that is what really matters. I agree, Prasad, that your other expenses also reduced as a percentage sales, but I will take this offline. My second question is on these last four, five quarters, we have been pretty stable in terms of no major escalation or cost overruns. I just wanted to understand, are all these tricky projects where we were running continuously on cost, they are largely behind, especially Bangalore Metro, I think it got completed, so anything pending there? Any other project which may create some issue for us in the coming quarters or now the worst is behind and we will see continuity at least in high single digit or early double-digit margins. Yeah. As far as the projects are concerned, we had Bangalore Metro, as all of you know. That is in the last two quarters before it has been behind us. So what is remaining now only is a claim and arbitration. If we get something from there, that will be only pluses. Beyond Bangalore Metro, there is no other job where we have got any such issues. Yes, we are in a comfortable situation as far as legacy project is concerned. Okay, sir. Thank you. Those were my questions. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Next follow-up question is from the line of Nidhi Shah from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead. Am I audible? Yes, you are. Please go ahead. I wanted to ask that the employee expenses are proportionately much lower, given that we've had a 51% increase in revenue and you're projecting another 20% increase next year. Would there be any further hiring that would sort of make the employee expenses more proportionate to last year? Yeah, there will be definitely for what is business, there will be some increase in our employee. That is a normal cycle of business. Not much, but if you have to do more revenue, you have to more people as well, not proportionate to the increase of revenue, but some proportionate will increase. Okay. Currently, would we see that the employee expense proportional to the revenue would increase by how much? Do you have any account on that? Difficult to tell, but delta increase in employee cost will be less compared to the increase in the revenue. In that way, proportionally, if you see, only marginal increase or even flat in terms of percentage. Okay. All right. I also wanted to know what you think are the two or three key drivers for growth of revenue this year. I couldn't get you, ma'am. If you can repeat, please. What are the two or three key growth drivers of revenue for this year? Well, first of all, we are focusing on big jobs. When I say big job, INR 1,000, INR 2,000, INR 3,000, in that range. We execute them. Each job will give you much more revenue than what you do normally with the small jobs. That is one area that we are focusing on, the big jobs. Second is that execution speed. Nowadays, nobody allows the 5 year, 6 years time, particularly marine and all. We are trying to improve our individual cycle so that we can get more turnover per month by mechanizing the things and executing fast. These are the two drives for the big revenue. All right. Last question, if you don't mind. What is the order opportunity in underground metro that you see in the next 1 to 2 years? There are plenty. Immediately I can see that at least three jobs or four jobs we have submitted. We are waiting for the opening. Each underground metro project size of around INR 2,000 crore plus. There after also we have a few jobs in pipeline. I think around INR 15,000, INR 16,000 crore job opportunities are there in this year, and we have to bid for that. How much we get, we don't get, that is a different issue. All right. Thank you so much, and all the best. Thank you. We will take our last question from the line of Sunil Bhojwani from Wenkai Investments. Please go ahead. Good afternoon, sir. Congratulations for the great set of numbers. Can I know what is the order bid pipeline currently? What's the amount? Bid pipeline, some we have submitted, some we are working, some we are yet to start. Put together will be around INR 25,000 crore plus. Okay. You have given a guidance of about INR 9,000 crore of order inflow for this year, which approximately means that our success ratio is close to 30%-35%. Is that the correct understanding? Actually, 25,000 crore order pipeline which we have to submit our bid, but there are some already we have submitted before. 35% success rate is quite high. I think it is around 20%-25%. Basically, it does not depend upon the amount, it depends upon the number. If you are successful to get 20% success, the 20% value may be 30%, if you have the big-ticket jobs. That calculation has been changed little bit now. What is the submitted bid amount, sir? Submitted bid amount will be Just approximately. There are two figures. One figure will be around close to INR 20,000 crore, another figure will be around INR 8,000 crore. The INR 10,000 crore figure is a gray area, whether this project will take place immediately or not. Okay. We have submitted our bids for these projects. Collectively, it is 28,000 where we have collectively bid for the projects, but 20,000 is the timeline cannot be predicted, right? Is that the correct understanding? INR 25,000-INR 30,000 is the opportunity. We have submitted around close to INR 20,000. Out of that INR 10,000 crore, we are not sure when and how this project will take off. It will happen sometime, but we don't know about the timeline. Okay. If 20,000 is the bid we have submitted out of the 30,000 opportunity. Right, sir? Yes. Okay. The other 10,000 also we plan to submit a bid sooner or later? Yes, work is going on, but some of them are related to elections, so maybe another 3, 4 months time we will be able to submit. Okay. Out of this order pipeline, you said that domestic and international would be about 50/50, right? That is in particular segment, that is marine. Only in marine. Otherwise, what would be the breakup of domestic and international in these bids? Otherwise, it is predominantly domestic. There is some job in overseas which is not marine, but that is not much. I don't want to quantify now. I don't have the figure now. That is less. No, I'm just trying to understand, sir, if we submit, say, by next quarter, we are ready with the INR 30,000 crore opportunity, and with a success rate of 20%-25%, we are still left with INR 7,000-INR 8,000 crore new order inflow. We are going to realize about INR 9,500 crores of revenue. Yeah, I will tell you one thing. See, INR 30,000 crore, 20% success, this does not work nowadays. In one job if we get INR 8,000 crore, only one job. It has to go by the number. How many tenders we have submitted, and how much of them we may expect to get, and what is the value of that job. Sometime, marine has seen 35% success rate. Can I say that you are being a little conservative right now since the beginning of the year for the order inflow, and maybe you would revise the guidance going ahead? Is that the correct way to look at it? It is probably just around the conservative. I think whatever number I have said, that is the upper limit, around INR 9,000 crore, yes. Okay. You think that is the upper limit, and crossing that would be a bonus? Yes. Okay. And you maintain by the 20% growth guidance Yes as per now, sir? Yes. Okay. Fair enough, sir. That would be all. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, we will take this as the last question for the day. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for the closing comments. Thank you so much for joining us for this Q4 FY24 earnings con call. We appreciate your support and interest in the performance of our company. We look forward to interacting with you again next quarter. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. On behalf of ICICI Securities, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.