Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Huhtamaki India Limited Q2-Q3 2024 results conference call hosted by ICICI Securities. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. To get assistance during the conference call, please press star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I will hand the conference over to Mr. Mohit Mishra. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining us on the Huhtamaki India Limited Q3 2024 results conference call, where Huhtamaki India management call is presented by Mr. Dhananjay Salunkhe, Managing Director. Mr. Jagdish Agarwal . Executive Director and Chief Financial Officer. I would like to invite Mr. Dhananjay to initiate the opening remarks, after which we will have Q&A session. Over to you, sir.
Thank you. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. With our tradition, this is a quarter three call, and before we start our discussions, let me start with our safe harbor statement that whatever we discuss during this call, it may not be related to any future events or financial performance of Huhtamaki as such, so with this, I'll kind of start with quarter three performance. As you would have seen, in quarter three, we had a improvement in the volumes and net sales. Quarter on quarter, the net sales were up by around 2%. However, the margins were significantly impacted due to adverse customer mix, adverse products mix, and inflation in our raw materials.
In this quarter, the focus was more on to protect the share of wallet and market share, where the end consumer demand was subdued for various reasons. As you would have seen, most of the large FMCG companies have also reported the similar challenges in the end consumer demand. Having said that, we have our strategy in place to address our competitiveness in the long term and create a path for profitable growth. We continue to drive our innovative product portfolio, driving our world-class operations and strengthening our manufacturing and customer excellence. We have been investing in the operations and technology, where you can see that there is a clear impact in terms of investments.
At the same time, due to the certain commitments from our end consumers or brand owners, where we, their sustainability goals are kind of getting slightly shifted, so we are seeing some headwinds in the short term. At the same time, we continue to push forward our sustainability journey, along with introducing the sustainable packaging solutions, which are in line with our customer sustainability pledges, I would say, and which are very slightly delayed, but we have a strong belief that we shall find a way to get things going. So with this background, I can ask, request our CFO, Jagdish, to take us through to the financials of quarter three. Jagdish?
Yeah. Thank you, Dhananjay. Good afternoon, everyone. With Diwali around the corner, let me start by wishing everyone safe and happy, happy holidays. Diwali being the festival of lights, I hope it brings joy and happiness to one and all. I'm pleased to host this Q3 2024 Investor Call, along with our MD, Mr. Dhananjay Salunkhe. And I'll take you through the financial performance for nine months and for September quarter. With regard to financial performance, like, Dhananjay said, the volumes for the quarter have improved on quarter-on-quarter basis, relatively flat when we compare with the YOY. However, volume for nine months ended September 24 are almost flat versus the corresponding quarter of previous year. Revenue for the quarter stands at INR 6.3 billion rupees versus INR 6.4 billion rupees in Q3 2023 , representing a decrease of 1.5%.
Increase of 1.6 billion in the trailing quarter, which is almost 2% increase. On a nine-month period, the top line stands at INR 18.5 billion versus INR 19 billion during the corresponding period of 2023, again, representing a decrease of around 2-2.5%. EBITDA for the quarter stands at INR 313 million, compared to INR 488 million in Q3 2023. And for June quarter, June 2024 quarter, it was at INR 383 million. On similar lines, the EBIT performance was, EBIT for the quarter was INR 191 million, versus INR 379 million in Q3 2023. And in June quarter, it was at INR 263 million.
EBITDA for nine months is at INR 1.19 billion, compared to INR 1.48 billion during the nine months, 2023, reflecting almost a decrease of around 20%. When we look at our finance cost, finance cost has decreased on YOY basis. We have repaid almost all the debts, external debts last year, except ECB. And the surplus cash has been invested into term deposits and mutual funds, which is yielding a return of 7% plus. During the quarter ended September 2024, we have repaid ECB of INR 1 billion, and that's the only debt we have in our portfolio of ECB over billion.
Profit for the quarter before tax for the quarter, before exceptional, stands at INR 1.83 million, versus INR 312 million in Q3 2023, and INR 213 million in June 2024. Profit before tax for nine months, 2024, it stands at INR 709 million, versus INR 861 million for the similar period last year. Similar movement in the net profit after exceptional income and after tax for the quarter is INR 170 million versus INR 320 million in Q3 2023, and INR 385 million in June quarter. With that, EPS for the quarter at INR 1.45 per share.
Net profit after exceptional income and after tax for nine months at INR 763 million versus INR 822 million during nine months 2023. With that, EPS for nine months stands at INR 7 per share. Now, it's very clear that we have seen the challenges in the bottom line, in spite of relatively flat volumes and minimal movement into the top line. There has been pressure on margins due to our cost of business, which includes raw material inflation, supply chain constraints, and sales and product mix, to name a few. Global supply chain disruptions emanating from geopolitical issues are also having an impact on the export, as well as having an impact on import of certain raw materials and their cost, and we believe this is, this is a temporary blip.
However, our strategic focus is definitely going to help us to drive long, long-term growth initiatives, and I'm sure this is going to help the company in future. When we talk about overall market and demand situation in the September quarter, in our overall ecosystem of FMCG sector, from where we get more, most of our demand, inflationary pressures have impacted the demand across most of the segments, affecting the consumer spending, and this is having a spiral impact on overall performance of the company. Even though rural demand is recovering, but urban demand continues to be under strain. Things are uncertain, and even if demand may improve gradually, inflation may still continue. That may have impact on the margins. So there are a lot of uncertainty in the marketplace in the economic environment at this point of time.
When you talk about our liquidity position, debt to equity ratio is pretty strong. It is at a zero point one, and it was zero point two previous year, same quarter. The gross debt, when we look at, it's only INR 1 billion, which is on account of ECB. All external borrowings has been repaid last year. Overall liquidity is pretty strong from cash flow point of view, and there are open credit lines which are not utilized. Those are with us from a cash flow management point of view. When you look at our working capital, working capital has improved on YOY basis as well as quarter-on-quarter basis. On account of various levers and overall working capital management, when we talk about with the payables and receivables and all.
While we evolve some of the business performance, I would also like to take a moment to reinforce our commitment to strong corporate governance, our commitment to our stakeholders, and our commitment to providing sustainable packaging solutions. It is our belief that with our core strategy of operational efficiencies, technology-enabled innovations, and realization of value for our product in place, this will help the company remain competitive in the long run and to drive responsible and profitable growth. As always, we appreciate your continued support and investment in our company. Thank you. With that, I'm handing it over to Mohit.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to make sure that the management is able to address questions from all participants, please limit yourself to two per participant. Should you have a follow-up question, please rejoin the question queue. We will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Deepan Sankara Narayanan from Trustline Holdings Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Oh, good evening, everyone, and thanks a lot for the opportunity. So firstly, we would like to understand more about this backward integration process of Blueloop product in more detail. In the normal flexible packaging, basic material starts from PE, so how will it be different in case of Blueloop? And what kind of gross margin improvement expected from this Blueloop product?
I'll take this question. Look, when we envisaged our Blueloop products, we are not only looking at the film as such, right? We are looking at the solutions. We are looking at the sustainable solutions, and the film is one of the part of it. The solutions which are so film, and then the barrier properties which we generate by the metallization, and then the all other coatings, is the part of what we offer to our customers. When we are you know investing in this processes, we are investing across the spectrum of the manufacturing processes and not only in the film. That's one aspect.
And then that's where we are moving ahead in the our product portfolio, where we are offering the solutions under the various brands, and you know. So that's one aspect. The second aspect is, yes, as these are innovative solutions, so we definitely have a plans of having a aggressive gross margins than the current one.
Okay. So because these are monolayer materials as compared to the non-sustainable ones, which has the multilayer material, so we save a lot of material cost in the case of Blueloop.
I would say, answer to both. You know, one, as you said, yes, because we are moving from a multilayer to mono barrier, so there would be saving in the material cost. At the same time, the materials which we have to use are basically the unique raw materials, they are sourced from the unique suppliers, and they are expensive than the current raw materials. So essentially, when there is a reduction in the overall plastic or the content, overall cost structure are going to be slightly changed. Yeah, that's the reason why we may not be able to end up passing everything through the chain.
What solutions which we are right now offering are basically at a slightly higher premium, but they are surely giving a lot of reduction to our end customers, which are their targets are to reduce the, you know, the plastic impacts to the environment.
Okay. Lastly, so we discussed that Blueloop contributed 25%-27% of sales during last quarter. So what is its contribution during the current quarter? And why there were not much gross margin improvement there, despite we have added value-added
I'm sorry to interrupt, sir, but can you please rejoin the question queue for a follow-up question?
So that, this is the second question, ma'am.
Okay, sir. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir. So the Blueloop, what kind of contribution we had during this current quarter? And despite having 25-30% contribution, why there was not visible gross margin improvement so far?
Yeah. So, as our CFO explained during his remarks, that the Blueloop contribution continued to be around 27-28%. But this quarter, we saw that, no, apart from the Blueloop, there is a challenge on the end customer demand, which basically revolves around the product mix. And as you can imagine, we are the part of a chain, where we have to also mimic the end consumer demand. And you would have read in the newspaper that in India currently a challenge in the end consumer demand and our customers have to really push for the, I would say, their product portfolio.
So when we have serviced those demands, the overall product mix has kind of got adverse. So that's the reason why we could not see the visible improvement in the margin profile.
Okay. Thanks a lot, and all the best.
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Saurabh Patwa from Quest Investment Advisors. Please go ahead.
Sir, am I audible, sir?
Yes, yes.
Yes, so first of all, thanks a lot for giving me opportunity to ask the question. So two questions. So one is, can you just highlight, I think in the presentation, as well as especially when in your opening remarks, you highlighted that you have a strategy in place to achieve long-term growth and sustainable profits. So can you throw some more light on that? Is it largely linked to Blueloop, or is it something more than that? It is, how much of it would be from market share gains from your existing from your wallet share, increasing existing customers? How much of it is from wallet in your market share gain?
The second question, sir, on, say, last four quarters, so four quarters back, I think we did a lot of exercise in two terms. One was on product rationalization, where we moved out of a lot of products which were, we were not making the kind of margin profile which we wanted. Subsequently, we also did a lot of work on our associated costs, which actually means we had to curtail because we decided to come out of some part of revenue. I think subsequently, there was one or two quarters when we saw some margin improvement.
However, I think that remained only for a while, and since so as you highlighted, the margins are again coming down because we are in product mix deterioration. So maybe you can just throw more highlight what's going wrong and how we plan to change it.
Yeah. So I think, your questions are well thought through. Thank you for this. So, first question. Our strategic intent, clearly it remains that we want to, gain the market share, and, in all the markets that we are operating. And Blueloop continues to be a very important, pillar of that. So that's, clear, okay? So but apart from, Blueloop, there are three to four areas where, we would want to focus. And as, you can see that we are a global company, overall our sales turnover are approximately 70/30 ratio, like 30%, 70% is domestic, 30% is, exports. So what we are, planning, of course, Blueloop is for all the markets.
In domestic market, as you know, Huhtamaki is a innovative player, and we continue to launch the new innovative products so there, what we are trying to do is focus on where to play. That is the markets where we have a strength, I mean, product portfolios which we have a strength, and there is a demand in the market. That's the focus right now we are creating, and that's where we have already had a certain products which are again from the Blueloop umbrella, and that's where we will be focusing in the domestic market and idea is basically to increase the market share and increase the share of wallet within the existing customers. That's a second advantage. First is, of course, Blueloop.
The third one is continuously focusing on our operational competitiveness, so driving operational excellence through... And as I said, you have seen last year, the first important strategic execution we did was the network optimization, consolidating our manufacturing footprint. And now we are kind of moving ahead in that internally. So there are many the operational improvement projects, which we are taken in hand and which are basically going to give us some value additions, which we will be working with our customers to kind of drive the benefits for mutual benefits. So that's the third aspect. And then continuously improving our talent pipeline, which will take us through the next phase of you know growth.
So that's something which we are applying. So it's basically, a five-pronged, approach and not only, Blueloop, but Blueloop remains in the, center of everything.
And sir, second question, sir. On your margins. Margins falling from last two, three quarters, despite several steps which you have taken, which you have been highlighting in last few calls, like the product mix improvement and associated cost reduction, like the reduction in number of employees, your reduction in your manufacturing points, which would have resulted in cost saving, which were visible maybe two quarters back for a quarter or two-
Yeah.
But, uh-
Yes. So, this is where the business, the dynamics comes in picture, that if you see this year is, brought, certain more challenging, external market, situations that, you know, the Red Sea crisis has impacted significantly the supply chain, around the globe. And, we, as we are globally, a global company, and, initial few, first couple of quarters, we had a challenges on outward, you know, the vessel availability or so. But later part of that, we also had, certain challenges for inward, right? So that's one large piece which was, really, impacting this year.
And second is the overall, if you see in first nine months in India, the FMCG companies are reporting, I would say, less than expected results, you know, and that impacts us as well, right? So we are a part of ecosystem. And as you would have seen in few months ago, one of the large FMCG CEO you know stating that there is no price in the market, and because there is no price in the market, what happens the focus we when our customers also focus on the squeezing out the price in the ecosystems, and we are the part of that, so we continue to face that headwinds on that. So that's the overall situation.
Things changed in this year, and then that's where we have to also change our strategy. This year, we have to clearly focus on maintaining the share of wallet at the existing customers. Then we saw that there is a headwind in the new business development or adding the market share. That three aspects kind of impacting our overall plans that we had envisaged in 2023 and moving forward. But yes, this is a business dynamic, and we have plans in place, and hopefully we will be able to you know come back.
Just a related question, if you allow. Can I just chip in one more question, sir, if you allow?
Go ahead.
Yeah. So, sir, I think when from the community of most of the FMCG companies it appears that the challenges are more on the food front. And it's so I'm just trying to connect, is our mix also inclined more towards the food part of the FMCG rather than the beauty and personal care, and that's where we have got impacted more? Is it this understanding a bit fair and especially including beverages, which has also got impacted?
Absolutely. Yeah, your understanding is right.
So, so how do you see the things improving? What would be the key driver, sir?
So innovative products is a key driver, and as you can see that regulations are getting changed or made, and our customers will have certain pledges around their sustainability goals, right? And what we are doing is basically helping our customers, and some of the customers' pledges are getting maybe slightly delayed, and that's where the headwinds we are challenged on. So innovative product is one of our critical piece of strategy. That's where we see growth coming in.
How many food and beverages? Just a little typical, and then I'll just join the queue.
I'm not sure. So to be sure, I mean, we have
No, I mean, normally don't go into that category level of-
... Just, just on a, like, trend basis.
By the way, if you need to do, then if you see Huhtamaki, we call ourselves as a food company, you know, food packaging company. So you can then,
Yeah, understand. Understand.
Food, food and daily essentials, okay? Food and daily essentials. So essentially, that's the focus in it.
Okay, thank you.
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Saket Kapoor from Kapoor & Co. Please go ahead.
Namaskar, sir, and thank you for the opportunity. Sir, if you could just explain to us the impact of on margins on account of the decline in raw material prices. How have the raw material prices behaved, and that had led to the depletion of margin in this quarter? If you could just quantify or give us an understanding, that would be better.
Yeah, I can, let me take this question.
Yeah.
Mr. Kapoor, I think we have seen on a primary two, item where we have seen a high inflationary impact. One of the BOPP and one is the polyester prices. And these two item are key item, key raw material for our production process, and we have seen a significant increase in the prices for these two, raw materials especially.
Can you quantify how, what have been the price trend in percentage terms for the BOPP and the polymers? I think you mentioned in percentage terms, and how are the price trends currently?
I mean, if you look at the increase of almost 10%-15% for these two products.
Okay. And our basket of raw material consumption, percentage terms, sir, how much % contribute?
It's a sizable, but again, we cannot talk specifically item consumption, but I think it's a sizable chunk.
Okay, majority of the same.
Yeah, it's a sizable chunk.
Okay, and, but just, just an understanding further here. So we are, I mean, we are not able to retrieve the inflationary part, the gain from our customers because of the lower demand and because of the competition, is what you are trying to-
No, it's a mix of, it's a mix of many things. Sometimes you have a time lag, sometimes you have a spot basis, sometimes you have contract timing and also there are mix of element of that. But definitely, yes, the entire recovery is not passing into the same quarter where you have an inflation.
So just to conclude for this point, first number point, have we taken any price hike to just to commensurate the inflationary impact going ahead? Or are we, according to the market trend, continuing with the same for the ensuing quarters also?
I mean, when you look at the market dynamics, demand and supply situation and the competitiveness in the market, so definitely we have to, you know, go to wherever the market, and we have to look into our contract, and accordingly, we'll take our decisions on the movement, recovery and all.
But what is the trend, sir? What are you, what are we exactly doing in terms of, restoring the margins again?
So if you look at like, when you look at demand and supply situation, definitely there is a capacity in the market and demand is not growing. In that context, we have seen even the third quarter demand is not coming from other market. And also there is definitely a pressure, and the competitive situation is really, really becoming more aggressive.
Okay. And second question is on the other expenses line item. Here also we see that, the line item, it, I think INR 115 crore, which are with, INR 100 crore for Q on Q, and last year also 94-95 crore. So what has led to this increase in other expenses? If you could explain that. And lastly, sir, on in terms of our non-core assets, disposal of them, what is the update? What are the assets under sale? If you could just give some color of the sale.
So other expenses when we talk about when we look at this quarter versus the previous quarter, largely it is happening to more element of that. One is that the freight cost is high in this year, and we know that because of trade crisis and all, the vessel availability, the container prices are pretty high. So that's one key element on that. And then we had some impairment on assets, and that's also the impact. So these are the two major reason. And even we have some repairs, repairs related expense also.
Right, sir.
Sorry?
Impairment, can you quantify for our benefit, sir? How much-
It's around 4.5 CR.
Four and a half, yeah. For the nine months, how much we have done impairment on assets?
So this is for whether you talk about three months or whether nine months. It's more or less same number.
Same number. Yes, please continue and, and in the next part.
In non-core assets, what we've already declared as assets for sale, I think we are done with all. So there are two land parcels which we have done the deal in the last year. One was for Ambernath and also Silvassa. So other than that, we have not declared anything as assets for sale.
Okay, we have concluded whatever was planned, sir. This is what you are saying?
Yes.
Okay. Thank you, sir, and should be public to the entire team. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you, sir.
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Parimal Mithani from Credential Investments. Please go ahead.
Hello? Can you hear me, hello?
Yep.
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. So, I just wanted to understand in terms of Blueloop, how do you see the pricing going on? So talking about this, is it as per your monthly expectation, and how is it? And in terms of the-
Can you... Sorry, there is a disturbance. I'm not sure, we are getting you properly. Can you repeat?
Let me know. Okay, sir, in terms of Blueloop... Hello.
Yeah. Yeah.
In terms of Blueloop, sir, how is the progress in terms of the product pickup in the market, and how is, are we competitive, are we?
Yeah. So first of all, you know, the investment what we have made in the Blueloop is going in the right direction, so all the equipment is up and running. They are delivering quite expected the product features what we you know I invested for, and if you see, we are globally, as I would have given this in the past conference calls also, that we have invested in different countries similar equipment, and we are seeing that there is a good traction coming in the developed markets.
Very clearly, that whatever product portfolio we have on offer, and there is clear acceptability in the developed market, and that gives us a very good confidence that eventually we will have a further traction in India.
And we have a good successes in India as well in certain product categories. However, the rate at which we wanted to introduce the products in the market has been below our expectations. And the reasons we are explaining the previous questions, that because those delays are due to various customers also kind of taking their time in terms of product qualification, the shelf life, and then their overall sustainability goals. But there is a positive development on the sustainable solutions adopted, adaptation by the end customers.
And clearly, it's a good sign in the developed market.
Okay. So how are we, sir, in terms of a competitor? Do they have a similar product in the market, or how are we pricing our... How are we moving in terms of differentiated products?
So first of all, the differentiated products are clearly, I would say, first in the market. And the second is that the amount of capacity invested by Huhtamaki globally and in India is, I would say, not a single competitor had invested in such a large scale capacity. So there are two clear differentiators. One, products clearly differentiated, and the equipments and location are clearly differentiated.
There was an echo. Yeah.
Yeah. Sorry, sorry, sir.
Yeah, so both areas we are far ahead of the competition.
Okay. Thanks, thanks, thank you.
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Akshay Bajaj from Medasis Advisors Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Am I audible?
Yes.
Yes. So, you know, just continuing with the question from the earlier participant on other expenses. So you mentioned that, you know, the delta that we've had quarter on quarter, as well as year on year, is about 50 odd crores on the other expenses, out of which you've explained about 5 crores, right? Could you also explain the additional 10 crores, how much of that is being contributed through higher paid costs?
Actually, there are many components of that when we talk about other expenses, and if you go through annual report of our last year, you'll find other expenses will have around 20-30 line items. It had a power and fuel consumables. There are many, many line item on that, so it's very difficult to go one by one on that. But one of item which we spoke about primarily is the impairment, and the other would be a freight. But not only these two items, but the combination of all that has been put together, that's the overall impact we had.
No, that's correct, sir, but I'm asking specifically about freight costs. How much did it really spike by in the last quarter, and has it now normalized in this quarter?
It is getting normalized, but still, it is not like the way it was probably last year, and it has an impact. When we talk very specifically, I'll say that maybe at least the impact will be in the range of around INR 25 million-INR 30 million for this quarter.
Understood. Okay, and do you think that freight costs have now begun to normalize? Because from what we have been reading in terms of data, there has been quite a sharp correction for July, in freight costs out of India.
Yeah, we have seen that, but again, it's very difficult to comment what will happen tomorrow. I mean, this year we have seen there were two, three cycles where freight came down and freight up kind of situations, but looks like that it should normalize soon.
Okay. My second question is with respect to Blueloop. So you know, you mentioned that Blueloop is about 27%-28% of revenues, and secondly, your domestic to export mix is 70/30. So my question is this: with respect to Blueloop, how much of it is actually being supplied domestically, and how much of that is being exported out?
When we talk about a Blueloop or which is like a sustainable, product or monomix, there's not much change if you look at quarter on quarter. 25%-27% is a range what we have in last couple of quarters. It is not that it's the number is we are talking of September quarter, June quarter. The similar numbers we had into many previous quarters. And if you look at the ratio of this monomix share is more or less similar what it was previously into the domestic and export market, so there is not much variation on that account.
Yeah, so that's what I wanted to know. With respect to Blueloop, it's... Is it a similar ratio of 30/70 with respect to exports, and domestic market, or is it slightly different? Because I believe, you know, you had also articulated a plan where, Indian facilities would be used to cater to, you know, other, markets as well for Huhtamaki, especially with respect to Blueloop products.
So probably, when we were secure, he was saying that Huhtamaki as a group have invested into Blueloop, into many other legal entities, not only into India.
Mm-hmm.
So, there's a good response in other countries because in developed markets, and India is also catching up on that front.
Yeah, but that doesn't answer my question, sir. I'm asking specifically with respect to Blueloop. Let's assume that you have hundred crores of revenues for this quarter. Just assume for a minute. Out of the hundred crores, how much is towards domestic markets and how much is towards export markets? I just want the mix.
Ratio is, sorry, more or less similar to the overall revenue.
Okay, fair enough. I'll come back into queue. Thank you.
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Jay Shah from Castle Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, good afternoon. I have a couple of questions. So, since last two, three quarters, you know, we've been alluding to, term called operational excellence, and that we are moving on that lines. But if you see in terms of, absolute numbers or, as a percentage of sales, we're not seeing any improvement in any of three cost items. So, what is the operational excellence all about?
So, yeah. Look, when we start this, we call it operational excellence.
It is definitely there were two contexts I spoke about, right? One is the competitiveness, and second is the customer centrality or customer excellence, right? So in both ways, we are making progress in certain areas. Look, today, if you see, whatever improvements which we are doing are able to take care of the inflationary trends in terms of electricity, in terms of fuel, in terms of the annual, you know, salary increases and so on, which are basically significant, right? And if you see the percentages, that's the reason why we are able to maintain that. Now, so you can see those benefits getting into. We are able to kind of mitigate the cost increases per se.
Because if you see, YTD basis or quarter on quarter basis, our volumes and that, net sales have remained, I would say similar, right? So that's the reason at this moment. So, as I said.
We've been impacted on the EBITDA, so I don't know whether we've been able to absorb. If we would have been able to absorb the cost of operational excellence.
Yeah, so EBITDA-
Significantly deteriorated.
Right. That's why in the previous discussions, we had a challenging customer mix, product mix, and we had to focus on maintaining the current share of wallet and market share, and that's the reason why we had to be prudent about it, right? That's the one aspect, and that's where the margins generally got impacted. The second aspect is the overhead cost percentage to the sales, and which has been kind of similar. The reason is operational excellence helping to mitigate the cost increases and flat volumes. Now, we have been doing groundwork, and the moment we start increasing our share of wallet, market share and net sales growth, those benefits will get, I would say, better and better.
But considering the current market conditions, that needs to be some distance away, right?
Can you repeat?
Considering the current market situation, you know, every company is talking of a slowdown, et cetera, you know, increasing our market share or increasing the.
So we have to be open on that front, clearly that how the market is going to shape from the future. See, look, again, India shows two aspects, like there is a premiumization, premium products are going well, maybe mid-tier are having challenge. Again, there is urban versus rural, and now the rural demand. And then, so all these things, definitely we have to keep things in that perspective and take future decisions. Absolutely, you are right.
Okay. My second question is, now since we are a net cash company because of the money that we've received on account of land sales, et cetera, why are we continuing with parent loans? You know, we are bleeding significantly there on account of the rupee depreciation vis-a-vis Euro.
Okay, so maybe I can answer that question. So, first of all, you know, ECB, are governed with the RBI rules and regulations, so there are average maturity period for any ECB repayment.
Okay.
Secondly, it is possible we have already done that. Second, just to answer this, ECB into INR, so it doesn't have any Forex impact to us.
Why is that?
Into Indian rupee.
No, no, but we will have to repay at a higher rate when we repay, right?
No, no, no. That's what I'm saying. When we have to repay, we have to repay into the Indian rupee. So the entire issue we admit is into Indian rupee, so it doesn't have a Forex impact.
Okay, okay. It doesn't have a Forex.
Yeah.
All right. All right. Okay. Thank you so much.
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Yash Mehta from Art Ventures. Please go ahead.
I just wanted to ask that, what is the kind of revenue growth you see in calendar year, calendar year 2026? And, when do you see the margins improve further?
This is more speculative, I would say. I mean, I don't think we go give a guidance on the sales growth or so for the future. Any point there.
Volume growth, sir?
Yeah, that's what I think. Volume growth and sales growth is associated with each other. But at the same time, you know, if you go on the Huhtamaki website, you would get some directional figures, and that is what we are also trying to align our growth aspirations. Our growth aspirations are also aligned with the India as a country growth as growth, what's happening. The plans are being made in that context. What I would say at this point of time is that if you see our journey from last five to six years, we had been, you know, I would say flat in terms of our revenue growth, and that is where we definitely want to make some move.
Thank you, sir.
Yeah. Thanks.
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Dinesh from D.T. Parekh. Please go ahead.
Hello, sir. My question is that our turnover is stagnant for last two years. There is no increase in turnovers at all. And we have mentioned the Blueloop, but Blueloop is not a substitute for BOPP films, right? It will reduce the BOPP films consumption, but there is no substitute of BOPP films. Our main competitor, Cosmo Films and Uflex, they have a backward integration plant of BOPP. Are we interested in going for BOPP manufacturing? As in two thousand and fourteen, ultimately, you go in the BOPP film manufacturing and they have sold it. So any plan of manufacturing BOPP films in future or not?
So, definitely, you see, the BOPP, our Blueloop is having four strengths, I would say. One is monomaterial, then PP, and then paper. So very clearly, we want to have a play in each of the product portfolio. And, at this moment, yes, BOPP is also contributing or PP products contributes significantly in our product portfolio. And that's where our plan is to basically, you know, push and introduce the PE-based products, which are as good as or better than the product which are offered currently in the market. So that's the clear plan, that we want to be a player, having a play in the PE structures, largely.
PE, paper, definitely, we don't want to say no to PP, wherever it is required. And because we are, at the end of the day, derived demand, right? So whatever is requirement from our customers, we definitely are going to service it. No problem on that. No iota of doubt on that. So that's clear. Now coming to the backward integration on PP, no, we do not have any plans on that. So we want to invest in our focus, our R&D efforts and the investments on the PE and the paper.
Right. So but our turnover is not getting increased for last two years. It's stagnant. What is the reason for that?
Yeah. I mentioned that in the previous question that, yes, the turnover has been stagnant, and that is where we definitely want to make a move. And the Blueloop is one of the strategy. The second one is the category focus in specific categories in the Indian market. Growing or accelerating our exports is the third one. So we are definitely making the plans around that. And yes, the progress is slow, but we will be. We are pushing on that side.
Thank you, and another question, the last one is the other expenditures, as you said, there is an impairment of asset expenses, INR 4-5 crore rupees. Is it a recurring expenses or non-recurring expenses?
It is a non-recurring.
Non-recurring, right, and it is an impairment of fixed assets or current assets?
It's a fixed. It's, some project was there, so it's fixed assets.
It's a fixed assets, right? Thank you very much. Thank you. My question is over. Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Akshay Bajaj from Medasis Advisors Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Yeah, sir, thanks for taking my question. So, you know, I just wanted to sort of, you know, dive back into the mix between, you know, our exports and the domestic market. Now, obviously, you know, you're mentioning that we have been struck by multiple factors in this quarter, particularly on the domestic side. You know, one is, there has been a lack of demand. Secondly, you're talking about competitive pressures. So my question is this, you know, we basically did whatever we had to do in order to maintain wallet share. So, how much of, you know, margin impairment have we seen or realizations impairment have we seen in this quarter versus the previous quarter?
You know, is it that, you know, all the players are facing a similar kind of margin impairment as well?
Jagdish, you have any this one or you want me to take this?
I can take it. So
Yeah.
I mean, when we look at the ratio between domestic and export, I think it's more or less similar to what we have in two previous quarters also. Not much changing to that. But initially, we had said that there is definitely a change in the mix of categories, because if you look at the demand per se, the demand in certain category, there are not much demand in certain category. There's a contraction in a certain category. So the product mix, and when we look at the customer mix, definitely had impact. On top of that, we have an inflationary pressure that also had impact on the margins. So there are a lot of variables which had impact on the margin, not only one impact, where we can isolate and say this is impact because of that.
Yeah. So my question is this, you know, when we look at our export realizations, how significantly higher are they compared to our domestic realizations? You could just give me a factor. You don't need to give me the absolute numbers.
No, I'm not clear. You're saying that average-- So, see, each category is different.
So-
Each product is-
No, no. So what I'm saying... Yeah, so what I'm saying is that, you know, are my exports, let's say, 50% utilizations and exports 50% higher, 30% higher compared to my domestic realizations? That's what I want to know.
No, again, actually, it's very difficult to comment because we cannot compare apples to oranges.
Okay.
There are different artwork requirements for our different businesses. So it's very difficult to compare that, what is the export realization versus the domestic realization. It's not fair to compare in that way.
Okay. Fair enough. So is it safe to say that the kind of pressures that we are facing in terms of, you know, margins, particularly on the domestic side, right, there is, you know, all the other competition is also facing similar pressures, right? Is there a case to be made that over the next few quarters, we actually see competition sort of coming down? Because obviously people are not going to be-
I'm sorry, sir, but can you please rejoin the queue for a follow-up question?
Yeah, just, it's a follow-up question to that one. It's a second question. It's related to that. If you can just allow me to complete this one. So are you seeing competitive pressures coming down in the-
I'm sorry, sir. Can you please rejoin the queue?
Sure.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Bharat Sheth from Quest Investment Advisors. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. My question is again around the Blueloop. See, about, let's say, three, five, six quarters back, also we were saying Blueloop contribution around 25%-30% kind of a range. And for now, we recently in Q2, we commissioned a new plant, which we set up for backward as a part of the backward integration. So how much sales are coming from that plant and is really benefiting us? Or is that fully operational? I mean, if you can explain a bit more, and how that will really play out.
So, see, the offerings what we have in the Blueloop umbrella are in various modes, right? There are certain products which are mono -material, which used to be earlier also done. They were a combination of, let's say, outsourced products and then in-house products coming together. That's the first part. Second part is now new products which are getting adopted by the customers. Third is, our products get replacing certain, you know, foil-based or a PP-based or a PET-based product. So the Blueloop umbrella is a combination. So there is a new sales or there is also a replacement sale. So right now-
Sure.
Why are we not able to see the marked change in the percentage is because right now, most of the product now we are making in-house, so there is a clear backward integration, so we don't now go for certain products, films or, you know, manufacturing process outside. So that's clearly in-house. The second one, wherever we have replaced certain foil-based products also, this comes as a kind of a replacement, but we are able to reduce the dependency from external forces, the external market, the aluminum foil chain and so on. That's the second part. And third part is the clearly new products which are getting introduced. And in certain segments, we have introduced the new products, which are coming as an incremental sale, because we were not earlier playing in that space.
But that portion is still low and which is again below our expectations also. So that, all these three things put together, right now you may not be able to see the change in the percentage moving from what we want it to. But ultimately, you know, if we put our customers' sustainability pledges and their plans and our ambition, there would be... there will be significant improvement by next few years. And by the way, most of our customers are now pledging by twenty thirty, they would want to change their product portfolios, packaging, in the sense, to more sustainable by twenty-thirty, right? So we are the derived demand industry, so we are servicing their requirements. So eventually, we'll get there.
The only challenge, which is, we would say it's an interim, is the rate at which we are able to introduce those products. And those, these introductions will be dependent on, one, the legislation or regulation coming in place. And we are seeing that in certain countries where there is a stricter legislation or regulation coming in, the rate of adoption has improved significantly. Now, we are also, you know, expecting the same thing happening globally, right? So that would definitely be important. The second one is the nature of the product.
There are certain products which are food contact and the certain medical or pharma and so on, where the customers want to change to the new product, but then their protocols, their qualification criteria, are having a long-term, long gestation period. So that is where we can, we are seeing certain, you know, headwinds. So these two things put together, where we are, you are seeing from outside that the percentage is not moving, but it will move.
Thank you very much. That was the last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Dhananjay Salunkhe for closing comments. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Yeah. So, thank you for all the questions, and active engagement with us. We continue to do this and update about our strategy, our successes, our challenges, and in fact, we are also learning a lot from your questions. So please, I would continue to invite those and happy to continue to engage with all of you. And, before we close, I would want to also thank our finance team, Jagdish and his team, to continue to engage with the investor community, and also thank you to ICICI Securities to organize this call. Thank you.
Thank you very much. On behalf of ICICI Securities, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.
Thank you.