Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Sunteck Realty's earnings conference call for quarter four and full year FY 2024. We have with us today Mr. Kamal Khetan, the Chairman and Managing Director of the company, Mr. Prashant Chaubey, the Financial Officer, and Mr. Abhishek Shukla, the Vice President of Strategy and Investor Relations. Please note, this call will be for 30 minutes, and for the duration of the conference call, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode. This conference is being recorded, and the transcripts for the same may be put up on the website of the company. After the management's discussion, there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions. There is a Q&A session, and we request to restrict questions to 2 per participant.
Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing Star then Zero on your touchtone phone. Before I hand the conference over to the management, I would like to remind you that certain statements made during the course of this call may not be based on historical information or facts and may be forward-looking statements, including those related to business statements, plans, and strategies of the company, its future financial condition, and growth prospects. These forward-looking statements are based on the expectations and projections and may involve the number of risks, uncertainties, and other factors that could cause actual results, opportunities, and growth potential to differ materially from those suggested by such statements. I would now like to turn the conference over to Mr. Khetan, the Chairman and Managing Director of the company. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
A very good afternoon to everyone for joining us today, and thank you for taking the time to participate in our company's earnings conference call for the fourth quarter and the financial year 2024. We had a decent year on pre-sales growth and another strong year on cash flow generations, which has been the main focus of the company always. This has led to Sunteck achieving net debt zero as at end of FY 2024, yet again demonstrating our financial prudence. Gross debt is down 58% since FY 2022, and stands at just INR 294-295 crore, with a gross debt to equity ratio at 0.09. We believe we have a strong and liquid balance sheet, and this gears up to do more work.
Inventory month at our under construction projects from the area offered for sale stands as low as eight months, which we believe is amongst the lowest in the industry. With existing projects completing, we have geared up to release more area for sale in our large-scale projects across Goregaon West, Mira Road, Naigaon, and Vasai. We are also in advanced planning stage for new launches in South Mumbai, which is Nepean Sea Road and Bandstand Bandra West. Both offerings are of GDV value, which is more over, more than INR 3,000 crore. The sales momentum at our BKC inventory has picked up in FY 2024, as we sold this year, last year, INR 245 crore worth of stock versus only INR 203 crore sold in the previous three years, all put together.
With this momentum across projects, we are geared up to achieve a pre-sales growth of at least 30%-35% in FY 2025 and a higher growth of operating cash flow. On adding new projects, we are in discussions for adding projects in Mumbai City, especially in Western Suburbs and more in South Mumbai. As communicated earlier, we have embarked on the ambitious yet achievable roadmap of doubling our GDV, which is Gross Development Value, from INR 30,000 crore to INR 60,000 crore in the coming years. Our confidence to achieve this stems from our strong foothold in the market and our ability to capitalize on the deep consolidation within the industry. In the past, through meticulous planning and execution, we have seen our GDV double in less than 3 years till end of FY 2024.
On the annuity front, both our marquee properties around BKC are now fully leased out, with long-term lease signed. We have also moved ahead on planning for our commercial portfolio at Oshiwara District Centre at Goregaon West. We will be able to confirm the commencement plans on this very soon. I will now hand over the call to Mr. Prashant Chaubey, our CFO, for more information on earnings performance of Q4 and full year FY 2024. Over to you, Prashant.
Thank you, sir, and good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to the earnings call for the fourth quarter and full year of financial year 2024. The financial and operational numbers have already been published on the stock exchanges. I believe all of you must have gone through the same. Some of the brief highlights of the financial performance are as follows: We sold INR 1,915 crore worth of area in FY 2024, which is a 20% growth over FY 2023. Cash inflows, including collections for the full year of FY 2024, stood at INR 1,236 crores, resulting in our net cash flow surplus during the same time period of INR 484 crore.
The cash flow yield stood at 21%. In Quarter four, FY 2024, we recognized some revenue from MaxXWorld as we received Occupation Certificate and started handing over possessions and ODC projects. We have recognized approx INR 284 crores from Naigaon, and the project level margin stands at 30%.
We are on track to complete Sunteck City 4th Avenue project in FY25, and due to better realizations, we expect to record higher EBITDA margins in this project from the revenue recognition. We expect to see a strong jump in profitability as well as margins in FY25. And finally, I'm pleased to report that the long-term credit rating of Sunteck has been upgraded from AA- to AA with a stable outlook. Thank you, and with this, we open the floor for questions.
Thank you very much, sir. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask questions may press star and one on their touchtone phone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use only handset while asking a question. In order to ensure that the management is able to address queries from all participants, kindly restrict your questions to two at a time. You may join back the queue for follow-up questions. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Kunal Lakhan from CLSA. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Good evening, sir. So my first question is on, you know, new launches for FY 25. You did said that, you know, Nepean Sea Road and Bandstand is something that you'll get, you'll launch. But, you know, are these the only two new launches in FY 25, or will there be more?
So, launch pipeline, first you have to understand, Q1 will be obviously what we are talking is mostly sustenance sales from all our six, seven projects, which are already launched, and they are there. Q2, we are targeting the new phases launches of Mira Road and new phase launching of Naigaon. And in Q3, we are looking to launch a new phase launch, which is 5th Avenue, in ODC, which is Goregaon West. And by the year-end, we will be obviously, we are trying to get ready for the launch of our South Mumbai project. You need to also understand, we also have sustenance sales, Kunal, at Sunteck Crescent Park, which is Kalyan, and Sunteck Beach Residences, Vasai, where we are obviously marketing also. All these projects are also obviously there.
Sure, understood. But in the past, right, when we have seen, like, when we have seen your sales really do very well, is generally when we have seen, you know, your new greenfield launches come through. So in terms of greenfield launches, Nepean Sea Road is the only... I know, and of course, like I think 5th Avenue seems like the two launches which are going to be large ones.
No, and obviously, the Mira Road, the new tower, because we have already got a best response in Mira Road, Tower One. When we launched second time, we did exactly something similar sales in Tower Two as well. And now when we launch Tower Three, I'm confident we will do a similar sales in Tower Three also. This each tower is, as good as one phase.
Understood, sir.
Plus, Naigaon is almost like we'll be launching more than 1 million sq ft. And always, if you see in Naigaon, we have whenever we have launched, we have sold close to INR 300 crore-INR 500 crore in each launch in the past, every time when we launched.
Sure, understood. My second question was on the enabling resolution that you have taken for raising, you know, up to INR 1,500 crores of NCDs and about INR 750 crores of equity. Do you intend to put, like, you know, execute this, or, you know, raise this kind of money, or it's just an enabling resolution?
Oh, yeah. So you're right. So you know, our net debt is we are cash surplus of INR 8 crore this year. Obviously, we don't want this, but, you know, as a practice, we have been taking this for the years, from last few years, that this enabling resolution is always there. But obviously, we don't plan to raise any equity or increase the debt. We are already net debt positive.
Understood. Thanks, thanks, and all the best.
Thank you, Kunal. Thanks.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pritesh Sheth from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi, good evening. Thanks for taking my question. First is on, you know, the cash flows that we generated this year, roughly INR 400 crore of net cash flow post-
I'm sorry to interrupt. There is an echo on the line. It's difficult to understand what you're speaking. May I request you to use your-
Sure. Sure, just one second.
Yeah.
Yeah, is it better now?
Thank you, sir.
Yeah. So just on, you know, the cash flows, you generated INR 400 crore of surplus cash flows, post CapEx, and obviously next year we'll see another increase on that number. You know, how do you intend to spend all these cash flows, you know, that you are getting? Obviously, you have cleared out on intentions on, you know, doing more business development, but, you know, any clarity in terms of pipeline?... of projects that you might, you know, acquire this, this year, would be helpful.
So thanks, Pritesh. So Pritesh, obviously, we have been doing more of JDA now. Obviously, we will not only, we'll see JD, we'll treat JDA as well as some buyout, but without obviously compromising on IRR and our returns. We are very clear. Plus, we feel now with leasing out these two commercial towers on the junctions of BKC, on our investment, we are making, like, a return of 30%, return on our investments, ROI. And once we start the ODC, 1 million sq ft close to a commercial property, and we are looking to start one more property somewhere in co- for commercial.
So we are well, means gearing ourselves to deploy this all this strong cash flow which we are seeing coming, which will be coming over the next few quarters, to either put it in BD, business development, obviously again, at the cost of reputation, without compromising on our returns. Also we will be investing obviously more into the commercial property, where we can make, like, a similar return, what we are doing in our existing Sunteck Icon and Sunteck BKC 51, the two properties which we leased out for 29 years on the junctions of BKC.
Sure. And on business development, we will, you know, surely see some transactions getting closed out this year or we are, since we have so much of projects anyways in the pipeline, it would be a new transaction for us at it?
No. So, Pritesh, we are aggressively looking for more projects because looking at such strong cash flows, we have enough on our plate, but we want to grow. And most likely, we would love to grow more than 30%-40%, 30%-35% what we are claiming right now, and we are gearing ourselves towards that.
Sure. And secondly, on, you know, the revenue recognition, so, you know, I think, there's just very partial revenue, you know, as you have mentioned, is, has got recognized as we progress on possession, for MaxXWorld. And we will have, you know, Sunteck Fourth Avenue getting completed this year. Overall, how we see, you know, revenue recognition in FY 25 in terms of absolute number, if you can, you know, guide us on that?
So, Pritesh, Prashant here. As we have already elaborated in our opening remarks, in FY 25, we expect Sunteck City 4th Avenue to start getting recognized, and the Sunteck MaxXWorld project also will be partially getting recognized in the FY 25. So overall, FY 25 numbers are looking quite strong, but it will be difficult to give any guidance on that. And over and above that, you will have BKC sales as well, which will come through. So that's why, we are quite confident of having a good revenue recognition in FY 25 as well.
If you can just quantify the total potential. Obviously, I can understand, you know, you will obviously recognize once the, you know, proposition starts, but, you know, just the potential between the two, what is left in MaxXWorld and, what is the total potential at Sunteck City 4th Avenue?
Pritesh, again, I cannot quantify the number, but definitely can assure you that this number will be much, much bigger than the FY24 number.
Sure. Okay. That's, that's fine. I have a couple of more, but I'll join back with you. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Biplab Debbarma from Antique Stock Broking. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, sir. So my first question is on Nepean Sea Road project. So recently, I visited your Nepean Sea Road project. It's very... It's an excellent and parcel. So, sir, where are we at this project? What is the status of this project? I understand you launched it by Q4, but currently, what is the status of this project in terms of approval or any other processes?
So, Biplab, first thing I want to clarify that we are definitely looking to launch towards the Q4. It may go to Q1 of FY 2025. I don't promise you that, but I can only tell you that project is, we have almost vacated everybody, and we are in the process of getting all the approvals. And without, irrespective of this project coming or not coming, we are very clear that we will make minimum 35, 40, 30-35% pre-sales growth and, plus, and we have discussed on the revenue already.
Okay. Okay, that's, that's good. And sir, in the business development from within MMR, what are the locations you are looking at? And I mean, just trying to understand, are you- would you be looking at a project with GDV of INR 600 crore, ballpark number, typical ticket size, or you have some target, like I would be looking at INR 2,000 crore GDV, INR 5,000 crore. Is there any typical ticket size of GDV projects that you are looking at?
So, you know, Biplab, that we look at only large projects. Even when we were doing more projects in MMR, all our projects are very large, including, if you see, when we look at South Mumbai, Nepean Sea Road, which is more than, like, 2,500-3,000 crore, almost today to today's value, it is more than 3,000 crore of GDV value. So what projects? Right now we are looking more projects, not in MMR. I would specify that it is more in the MCGM limits, Mumbai Municipal Corporation limits, and more towards South Mumbai and these locations. And we are quite confident that we, on each project, we don't want to do very small, small projects. We are looking at sizable projects, and you will see some good news coming in FY 2025, for sure.
That's great. That's great. And my final questions are on the launches, the new phase launches that you have mentioned, sir. Mira Road, Naigaon, Oshiwara phases. Typically, what would be the GDV of these new phases? INR 1,000 crore, INR 2,000 crore, and-
So if you are talking about Mira Road, Naigaon, Goregaon, all put together, the GDV value of these projects, all three put together, will be more than INR 4,500 crore.
Okay.
But these phases put together.
Okay, sir.
So we are talking, just to give you a clarification, we are talking a sizable Goregaon, which is 5th Avenue, which will be close to 1 million sq ft, which itself is more close to INR 3,000 crore of GDV value. And when we talk about Naigaon, 1 million sq ft, which is again close to INR 1,000 crore. So, which is almost like... So like Sunteck City, the GDV value will be more than 2,500 crore. Sky Park, again, what we are launching, we'll be launching one more tower, which will be the GDV value close to INR 800 crore. Sunteck World, which is Naigaon, which is more than close to INR 1,000 crore.
So we have enough in the pipeline, plus we have the sustenance, plus obviously we, we are looking forward to launch as soon as possible, the Nepean Sea Road as well. But with irrespective of. Let me give this at the cost of repetition, irrespective of Nepean Sea Road, we are very confident we'll grow minimum 35%-40%, 30%-35% in our pre-sales number.
That's great, sir. Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vasudev from Nuvama. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity, sir, and congratulations on good set of numbers. So while most of my questions are answered, just one thing, what would be your thoughts on the Borivali launch? And just to confirm that you said Bandstand also, are we looking to launch in Q4 of FY 25 or it will slip to FY 26?
So definitely we are not talking about Bandstand right now, but we are very, obviously, we are looking to launch every project as soon as possible. We want to be top conservative number and over commit less and deliver more. That will be our endeavor. That's what we want to do. And plus, obviously, you have asked from Bandstand and then the Borivali. So the Borivali, obviously, we I don't know whether you are aware, that was in a special
Development.
development zone, SDZ. And government has come up with a policy for special development zone. So now we see that project getting fructifying that project, and we are working towards planning and other things. And I think very soon we'll be able to give you good news on that as well. But we cannot promise that it will be in FY 25 or worst case, obviously, FY 26. We are talking about only those projects where we are 100% confident and we are very near to the approvals.
Okay, sir. Also, can I get the inventory numbers for ODC, Naigaon, Vasai and Mira Road?
Yeah, Prashant. Yeah. So, Vasudev, Prashant this side. So the inventory numbers, the ready to move in inventory is close to around INR 1,500 crores-INR 1,600 crores, and the ongoing projects have an inventory of around INR 1,500 crores.
Okay. That's it. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Riddhi from Arihant Capital. Please go ahead.
Thank you, sir, for taking my question. This is Abhishek Jain. I have two questions. Can you tell me what is our thought process of capital allocation of we have got an approval for INR 2,250 crore of fundraising. Where exactly we are going to do that? And what will be the projects which we are in timeline? Because as most of the projects which we are doing right now is basically joint lending only right now, co-development only. So can you share some thought process on the same? Also, there are second question is on what is your thought process on Nepean Sea Road? When is the timeline to when we are planning to launch that?
So to answer your first question, I think we already answered this question, that this is just an enabling resolution. This is just an enabling resolution, like every year, what we take. Obviously, we are not interested in raising any funds. I believe you were not part of the other earlier Q&A round, because this question has already been answered. And I think your second question about-
About Nepean Sea.
Nepean Sea Road, I think I've already answered that as well. And if you want, I'll, at the cost of repetition, I'll answer once again.
No, you can.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. We'll take the next question from the line of Prem Khurana from Anand Rathi Shares and Stock Brokers. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi, thank you for taking my questions. Sir, so when I look at our presentation and what I observe is, so ultra luxury seems to have picked up, I mean fairly well for us this year, versus last year, INR 76 crore to almost on INR 250 crore. And what will you attribute this jump to? And has there been any change in the way we've been approaching sales in uber luxury now? And where do you see this number next year in terms of trend? Not necessarily the exact number, but in terms of trend, I mean, do you see this to move up substantially or, and it'll move up in line with your blended growth guidance that you shared with us?
So, Prem, so what we are talking about is, luxury obviously is doing, sales much better than and faster than the sales, of any mid-segment or. We are seeing, all of us are observing that, observing that, sales of uber luxury segment is faster than the mid-income segment or the affordable segment. So we are all geared up towards that. That's why, we want to launch even the Nepean Sea Road as early as possible. As I mentioned in my opening remarks, that, if you see BKC in last three year, pre this year, we sold inventory of close to INR 245 crore versus INR 203 crores sold in the previous three years put together.
So what we sold in previous three years, we sold in the last year, which was more than that. We see this momentum to continue, and we will see better sales, in fact, in FY 2026 than what we have seen in FY 2025.
Sure. No, sir, the idea was to try and understand, I mean, as you rightly said, I mean, last three years, I mean, you did almost INR 200 crore in 2017, this year, you've done INR 245 crore. So have you changed anything in the way we approach sales? Because, I mean, the demand for luxury has been there for almost two, three years now. After COVID, we saw, I mean, the first, second level, that revival was the luxury. But for some reason, for us, I think, was, I mean, took some time to be able to pick up. So this year, I mean, it has been extraordinary. I mean, has there been any incremental effort that we put in, or this is organic? I mean, it was supposed to be there, that there are meant to for some time.
So obviously, we are trying to put more and more effort when we were seeing not happening, sales were not happening in luxury in BKC. I think BKC took some slightly more time as well. One was, and it's a mix of two, three things. Obviously, we started putting more effort that why BKC is not picking up. I think BKC took slightly more time than the other luxury because it's a different market, and like, there is not too much of market within BKC. So whatever market you see in Bandra, it is outskirts of BKC, and this is very, very luxury. And the target audience are much lesser, but obviously once it has, whatever we have done, it's working right now, and it has, it is doing well, and we'll continue with that.
I think we'll continue to make this sales grow further in this year and going forward to the next year onwards.
Sure. And the second question was on Borivali, the SK project. So I think, I mean, now it would come under a special, I mean, SDZ scheme. Would that make the potential change substantially? And, I mean, would the original agreement still hold, or you would have to kind of renegotiate because the numbers would change, which is where the landowner could try and renegotiate with you, or the original agreement still holds?
So agreement is stamp duty registered. Why would a landowner renegotiate? It is in the mutual interest, and I think numbers don't change because of this SDZ policy coming in soon means it was indefinite when it will come, this year, next year. But now, since the policy is there, only the approvals will come faster, and it will quickly start without changing any commercials. It has nothing to do with commercials.
Okay. Sure. Thank you, and all the very best to you.
Thank you. Thank you, Prem. Thank you.
Thank you. We'll take the next question from the line of Ronald Siyoni from Sharekhan Limited. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, sir. Congratulations on good pre-sales numbers and a healthy revenue booking. Sir, on the Nepean Sea Road project, you know, are we looking at adjacent land and land areas? You know, at what stage we are there, you know, it can potentially double the project size.
So, Ronald, yeah, obviously, we like to work with large projects and large scales. Obviously, we are trying to consolidate and make this project a bigger size. Two at the initial stage, we don't want to commit anything on that. We are working on it, but we are quite confident that we want to launch this project as soon as possible, either in Q4 of FY 25 or as early as early quarter of Q1 of FY 26.
Okay. And, second one, and last one would be, you know, sir, sales has been strong, but, you know, collections barring, say, BKC projects, it has been little bit slow during the quarter four. So have you, you know, changed, some terms with respect to, you know, payments, with respect to construction or are there any issues which have been going on? So just wanted to understand that.
Hi, Ronald, Prashant here. So, Ronald, as you are aware, we got the Occupation Certificate of Sunteck MaxXWorld in the last month of financial year FY 24, and those collections are coming in the first quarter of FY 25 and second quarter of FY 25. So that's what, that's the reason why there was a slight collection which has overflown to the next quarter and next financial year.
Okay.
Also, you will see that, that's why the collections in this year, financial year, and the net operational cash flow number will be much bigger, in fact, much, much bigger than FY 2024.
Okay. Great to hear that, and, and best of luck.
Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will take that as the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to the chairman and managing director, Mr. Khetan, for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Thank you all for taking out the time from your busy schedule today. In case if any of your queries have been left unanswered, you can get in touch with us. We look forward to your continued support. Thank you once again for joining us today, and please be safe. Thank you.
Thank you, members of the management. We thank you for taking out time for Sunteck Realty's earnings call. You may now disconnect your lines. Thank you, sir.