Thank you. Thank you everybody for joining Sunteck Financial Year 2021 full year's earnings call. Last year has been one of tremendous growth and learning for me as an individual and for Sunteck as a business. The past year has given me some time to reflect on Sunteck's impressive growth journey over the last 20 years, and the path we are on for the future.
We had a great run so far, but our best days lie ahead. I'm excited to use this opportunity to introduce the next leg of our Sunteck journey, what I call Sunteck 3.0 or the new Sunteck. I will refer to a few slides to our earnings presentation, which I encourage you all to review in detail.
We also published an intrinsic value presentation a few months ago, which is on our website and goes through our various projects as detailed case studies that gives you a good understanding of our business. Our journey at Sunteck began in the year 2000. At the time, we operated a few business centers in Mumbai that we leased wholesale and subleased retail. We owned no real estate and had under INR 10 crore in cash.
In 2007, we made a research-based decision that a central business district like BKC would be desirable place not only to work, but also to live as a uber-luxury lifestyle. The decision and the vision paid off, and we have since helped hundreds of happy families find their own dream home in BKC and ODC in Goregaon West. Along the journey, we created enormous shareholder value. We now embark on the new Sunteck.
We realize that there are more efficient ways to do business rather than tying up capital in big land holdings or in finished apartments. Currently, we have close to INR 1,800 crores of finished inventory and focused on reducing this by 80%+ in the next few years. We are also focused now on not adding much new finished inventory. The objective as we do our launches is to stack it high and let it fly.
Our progress at Sunteck World in Naigaon is the exhibit of this new focus. You can see slide 32 of our earnings presentation. We have launched 2,840 apartments, of which we have already sold with high velocity 4,136 apartments. The overhead to run Sunteck engine is about INR 100 crores per year or less than that. This is the amount we would spend even if we did not do any construction for a year.
As you can see on slide 33, the four new near-term projects have an operating margin of approximately INR 6,200 crores. If this were delivered in the next six to seven years, we would add pre-tax income of around INR 6,200 crores. This is roughly INR 1,000 crore per year pre-tax, or INR 700 crores per year post-tax. This INR 700 crores has plenty of lumpiness. We may have INR 1,000 crores in one year and INR 500 crores maybe in another year.
It also could be higher as we add more projects. The key is to expand and strengthen our senior team and execution capabilities so that we could be doing six or seven or more big-sized projects simultaneously. Historically, our project-level margins have been closer to 25%, which was good. Future margins are trending higher towards an average of 35% per project.
You can see this in the economics of our Vasai and Vasind projects on slide 33. There are several reasons for our margin expansion. First, our size and the breadth of our experience that has allowed us to realize more and more economics of scale and savings. In addition, COVID brought in a period of tighter expense control, and a good portion of those cost control measures should stay in place even after COVID is long gone.
Finally, our price realizations are trending higher because of the strength of our brands and offerings. We have a big opportunity in 2021. Typically, we have to pay Maharashtra lot of fees and premium for each development, which includes fees to maximize the space we can utilize at a site. These fees can be significant and amount to 30% of the price we realize.
The state cut these fees by half for all of the calendar year 2021. This represents a good saving for Sunteck, and for Sunteck we take full advantage of this in 2021, and even pass on some benefits to its customers. We plan to prepay approximately INR 250 crores of these fees and premium in 2021. 50% saving means that we will be also saving INR 250 crores, which is wonderful.
This should further improve our project-level IRRs and leave us with more capital for growth. The benefit for this will come over the next two to three years. With demonetization, GST, RERA, NBFC crisis, and now COVID, there has been a major consolidation. Now we are seeing many more interesting deals being presented to us with minimal Sunteck capital required.
Of course, we are very selective, and I think significant shareholder value will be created if we are prudent on the deals and keep our error rate low. Our HR team is also working on employees' welfare and expansion plans to support the growth trajectory of Sunteck.
I'm excited about the road ahead for the new Sunteck and for sharing this journey with all of our stakeholders. Thank you. I will now hand over the call to our CFO, Mr. Manoj Agarwal, for his comment. Thereafter, I would be happy to answer your questions, if any. Over to you, Manoj.
Thank you, sir. Good evening, everyone, and thank you once again for joining us today. Hope all of you are safe and well. The financial and operational numbers have been already uploaded on the exchange. I hope you must have gone through that already. I would now like to run you through the key financial and business performance numbers. Pre-sales in Q4 FY 2021 stood at INR 371 crores against INR 349 crore in Q3 FY 2021.
That is an increase of 6% on year-on-year basis. I would like to highlight that we have achieved INR 1,022 crores of pre-sales for full year FY 2021 as against INR 1,221 crore for last financial year, same period, despite the effects of the ongoing pandemic. On collection front, we achieved our highest ever collection in this quarter as a function of healthy pre-sales of recent past as well as increase in home loan disbursements.
Recorded collections of INR 321 crore in Q4 FY 2021 as against INR 175 crore in the same quarter last year, and INR 252 crore in Q3 FY 2021. That is an increase of 83% on year-on-year basis and 21% on quarter-on-quarter basis. In terms of financial highlights, we reported consolidated revenue of INR 191 crore in Q4 FY 2021 as against INR 87 crore in the same quarter last year, and INR 217 crore in Q3 FY 2021.
Revenue for full year FY 2021 stood at INR 614 crore as against INR 560 crore in full year FY 2020, which is a 10% increase in spite of the hit of COVID in the Q1 during FY 2021. The consolidated EBITDA for Q4 FY 2021 is INR 39 crore as against INR 4 crore in Q4 FY 2020 and INR 49 crore in Q3 FY 2021. EBITDA for full year FY 2021 was INR 137 crore as against INR.
168 crore for full year of previous financial year. With respect to PAT recorded INR 10 crore in Q4 of this financial year as against INR 23 crore in Q3 of FY 2021 and INR 42 crore in full year FY 2021 as compared to INR 75 crore in full year FY 2020. As always, we continue to focus on our cash flow management and financial discipline. They help in this environment.
Debt continues to reflect in our low net debt to equity ratio, that is including quasi equity, which has been reduced to 0.18 due to our strong operating cash flow, which was positive by INR 286 crore during FY 2021. That helped us to reduce our debt of INR 233 crore. We can now open the forum for questions from the participants. Thank you very much.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on your touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question.
We would request the participants to please limit your questions to two per participant. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the questions queue is ready. The first question is from the line of Adhidev Chattopadhyay from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good evening, everyone. Firstly, sir, congratulations on the very good performance in a very tough year, obviously because of COVID-19-related disruption. Sir, going ahead, first question is, as you have said, you want to monetize a lot of your existing inventory, largely in BKC.
Going forward from 2022, how are you looking at your annual sales figure? Considering you've done just over INR 1,000 crores this year. How much would be from the unsold inventory, how much would come from the new launches? What is the broad target you are working with? If you could give us any guidance.
Good afternoon, Adhidev. Good evening. Your first question, monetizing from the inventory of BKC. We have been always maintaining that those are very high-end luxury apartments, and it is definitely not a fast-moving product. That will take some time. Our sales growth, whatever we are doing sales right now.
You can see the sales from the other segment, mid-income segment and the affordable segment. That is very robust. You can see in our presentation, which has been uploaded also. Also not only the sales momentum is good, also the collection, if you can see from across all the segments. Sales momentum in the mid-income and affordable will continue to be very robust.
Looking at the current sales position of the April, May, June, which we see it is much better than even, in fact, the last corresponding last quarter of the last year, this corresponding Q1 .
June especially, the momentum, we are seeing all of the momentum picking up. That is a clear indication, since the lockdown is slowly starting opening up, we are seeing that the Q2 will be much more robust, and that's what I can tell you about the sales momentum.
Okay. Any longer-term targets, means where you want to scale up the sales, annual sales or something you are working on?
If you see right now, we have two or three engines from where we are doing maximum sales. You can say two or three projects from ODC, Avenue One, Avenue Two, and Fourth Avenue, and Naigaon phase I and phase II, which is WestWorld and MaxxWorld. Obviously, there will be lot more new launches, whatever we have taken, Vasai, Vasind, and the Borivali one.
You will see new phases getting launched from ODC and also a new phase from Naigaon. There are a lot of new launches which we are expecting. I would not like to give any numbers, but definitely I can see the growth will be very exponential in next two to three years. Very high exponential.
Okay. Sir, just my 2nd question. I'll come back to you later for more questions. Sir, there was a media article yesterday about this deal you have done with DMart in Avenue Two in Goregaon. Could you confirm anything on this deal and what are the exact contours and timeline for it? If you would like to comment.
The deal, obviously, I think it was there almost, because it's in the public domain, it has been registered. It's just we have sold almost 40,000 square feet of the showroom area to them, 3 levels, and that's what, at ₹25,000 a square feet. The deal, we are looking to give them a possession in next 12 months.
Thank you. We would request the current participant to please come back in with questions for any follow-up questions, as we have several participants waiting for their turn. The next question is on the line of Puneet Gulati from HSBC. It is with you. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you so much, congratulations on your good results. My question relates to your future capital allocation. How do you think you intend to allocate your capital? Is it more towards purchase of land, more towards joint development, or are you looking at redevelopment of societies also as a strategy?
Very good question. If you see, obviously our collections are very robust and it's going to only get more robust from here as we deliver more and more projects, because the receivables are very high. Also, our pre-sales are exponentially increasing, as I said in the last question. If you see, our debt-equity ratio has come down drastically from the negligible debt-equity ratio at, say, 0.24. It has come down to 0.18.
This we are looking almost we may end up with a very negligible debt or maybe somewhat very cash positive. We are definitely looking at all kinds of acquisitions in this distress period, and lot of opportunities are in the market. We will evaluate.
We are not averse to not buying the land parcels, but it's just at a good price and it should add good value to our shareholder and good value to the company. Otherwise, there are so many options of joint development, JV. Definitely if there is no complications and if there is a society redevelopment, but it has to be a very sizable development.
It cannot be a small society or a standalone development kind of thing. If they are large size projects, we will look at it definitely. If it makes economic sense, we will definitely look at it.
From sizing perspective, what kind of capital are you looking to deploy? Is it more like small tickets, or is it large parcel with large tickets?
If you see in the last four acquisitions, Puneet, we have done Naigaon and then Vasai and then Vasind, then SK. They are all very large size. They have a top line of more than INR 1,000 crore-INR 2,000 crore and we are looking at bottom line in all of these projects more than INR 500 crore-INR 600 crore.
We are looking at a very large size project and without putting much capital. If we are getting such kind of parcel, why should we put in the capital? First, we like to explore these opportunities. Only then if we feel there is lot of distress available and where we can make a good multiple IRR and that kind of projects, we'll definitely look at those as well.
Have you seen business go up post COVID or is it still the same? Because there was some improvement in the entire environment post the first COVID wave before the second one.
There is an improvement in the environment, but only what we are seeing, the sales are maximum swinging towards the only organized developers. We are all seeing that the maximum sales are switched. The market share of the organized developers are increasing more and more, Puneet.
This will only help to grow more of the organized player and who are corporatized or they're listed ones. I don't see the growth happening very soon with the others. Most of the developers are today struggling for the survival. I think the 10% of the developer which are growing, they will continue to grow. That's why there will be lot of consolidation.
Okay. Understood. That's very useful. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Amit Khetan from Laburnum Capital. Please go ahead.
Sir, thank you for the opportunity. You mentioned in your slides, you have some INR 1,700 crore of inventory at the BKC complexes, and you plan to sell them off over the next three to four years. Now, if I look at your previous sales run rate, you did about INR 100 crore in the last two years, and before that you were doing INR 300 crore. Where is this coming from? Are you planning to cut prices or are you seeing a lot of interest?
I don't think there is a necessity to cut any prices. Definitely, the velocity has to increase. There is only drop of sales in the last year. Otherwise, we have been doing close to INR 200 crore-INR 300 crore of sale year on year from last seven to eight years, maybe more than that, 8-10 years. Last year, definitely there were sales was only to the tune of almost INR 100 crore.
Looking at the current situation and the current inquiries, we are quite optimistic and positive that we will have a good run rate even in BKC projects also, the sales in BKC projects also. What we are considering that to exhaust this inventory, not less than three to four years. We are very clear we are talking about, because this is not stopping the growth of the company anyhow.
I don't see that growth is getting. Because giving a discount will be only spoiling the more the brand image. Company is not at a distressed position that you need to cut down the prices and sell it desperately. We will definitely weigh the values of options, and we would definitely like to exhaust ideally the inventory even in less than three years. Looking at the product and the kind of demand, we definitely see that it will take at least more than three to four years.
Understood. Currently, are we getting any kind of leasing income from these units and how much would that be?
That is because the leasing income, we all know it is only 2% or 3% of the capital value. It doesn't make sense. Maybe two or three apartments, but we don't want to lease it more. That is only we have leased out those apartments because there are a lot of inquiries and we have sold those kind of apartments.
People who want to do just the investment because they see a lot of opportunity because BKC ones, there are a lot of things which are happening, actions are happening in BKC, more of lot of connectivity which are coming to BKC. As well as you see there is a convention center which will be operational. Unfortunately, all these things got delayed due to the COVID, I believe, but this will be post. Hopefully we don't have a second, third wave.
Thereafter you will see a lot of traction we see in BKC. We get lot of inquiries that people just want to invest and if there is a leased apartment to consulates and multinationals and which we have in our portfolio, they like to buy those apartments. Only from that angle we have leased out few apartments. The idea is not to keep them leased. The idea is to exhaust them, sell them and exhaust them.
Thank you. We would request the current participant to please come back in the question queue for any follow-up questions. The next question is from the line of Pritesh Sheth from Edelweiss Wealth. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Am I audible?
Yeah. Pritesh, you're very much audible.
Okay. Firstly on your launch pipeline that you indicated in your presentation, what is the particular size that we are looking to launch? I'm sure we are not able to launch a full project, obviously there will be phase-wise launches. What is the size that we are expecting to launch for both Vasant, Vasai and Borivali?
Pritesh, I think you are taking it from a mobile phone or something. The connectivity is very bad. Not able to hear your question properly.
Oh, yeah. Am I audible now, clearly?
Let us try. Can you repeat the question?
Yeah. I was asking about your launch pipeline for this year that you have indicated in the presentation. What is the exact size of the launches that we are targeting this year on your new acquisition that is Vasai, Vasant and Borivali?
The sizes of launches, I think in the 1st launch of Vasai, if you look at the total size which is we are looking at the sizes of close to INR 500 crore-INR 600 crore of the launch in the Vasai. If you look at phase I of Vasant, which will be again similar INR 300 crore-INR 400 crore. Again, Borivali SK Resort, we can look at a similar INR 500 crore-INR 600 crore from Vasai in the phase I. These are all approximately size would be INR 500 crore each launches.
Got it. That's helpful. Your next phase of Naigaon is not reflected there. Is it stuck for any approvals or you are altogether planning for launching in post FY 2023?
It is there. If you see on page 32, if you go to the residential side, additional operating margin expected in Sunteck World, Naigaon. Future phases, it shows INR 12,750 crores and the total INR 16,750 crore project operating margin.
Pritesh, hi. Pritesh, it is Prashant.
Yeah, Prashant. Hi.
Pritesh, the numbers are reflected on slide 32, and in slide 32 if you see Sunteck World, Naigaon has been given, and that Sunteck World, Naigaon includes WestWorld and MaxxWorld and the future phases.
Okay.
There if you see the additional project operating margin, it is close to INR 1,275 crores and the total is INR 1,675 crores.
Okay. You will be launching next phase in FY 2022. That's what I wanted to understand.
Yes. We'll be launching.
Thank you. If you are the current participant, please come back in the question queue for any follow-up questions. At the moment to the participants, anyone who wishes to ask a question, you press star and one now. The next question is from the line of Aditya Mehta from GK Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir, thanks for the opportunity. I still wanted to know what are the plans regarding rental and commercial portfolio, which we were targeting around INR 500 crore of annual revenue?
Aditya, we all know that, I would say we got lucky, I would put it that way. We were supposed to just start our project, Fifth Avenue in ODC commercial portfolio, before the COVID-19 hit. It was fortunate that our approvals got delayed, and we could not launch. I think we all know the situation of the commercial post-COVID. The demands are continuously going down for the commercial, and we don't know there is a lot of uncertainty for commercial and retail.
At least I believe that commercial will not get revised till end of 2023. We will look at the market. If the commercial market revives, we have the land, we have everything. Why should we not start it? We will be looking to start as soon as we see the market getting better, and we will definitely launch that as well.
Okay. sir, my second question is regarding which are the projects that will be delivering in this financial year, and what is the amount of revenue that is yet to be recognized from them?
Prashant. Hi, Aditya. This is Prashant. In the current financial year, you will have projects like Sunteck City Avenue II which will be ready for delivery. You will also have Signia Waterfront, which is our project in Airoli, which will be ready for delivery. As and when these projects come through, the pending revenues which are to be recognized, those will be recognized. In order to get the detail of the revenue, I can provide to you that offline, sir.
Okay. Naigaon also we will be delivering this time, basically for commercial use?
Also Sunteck World, Naigaon. WestWorld, Sunteck WestWorld. The phase I of Naigaon will also be delivering in FY 2022.
Okay. Sure. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Adhidev Chattopadhyay from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity once again. Just referring to slide 38 of the presentation when you have talked about the INR 250 crores FSI premiums will be paying out. Sir, could you just help us understand for which projects will this be, and is the saving INR 250 crores instead of INR 500 crores?
If this premium reduction would have not come, obviously we would have paid INR 500 crores, let's say, approximately. This reduction is 50%. Obviously, if we prepay this, we have calculated approximately we'll have to pay INR 250 crores, it can be ±10%. These are the projects, because there are maximum projects which are under execution.
You can see Fourth Avenue, there we'll be having a lot of saving. We will have some savings in 2nd Avenue as well in Sunteck City. We have a savings in Andheri East project, which is Sunteck Crest. We have two commercial projects in the junction of BKC where we'll have savings. We'll have savings from all of these projects, and this will all tune up to approximately saving of close to INR 250 crores.
Okay. Sir, just another follow-up question. Approvals for Vasant Borivali. Are these fairly certain to be launched in second half this year, or is it contingent on certain key approvals, like environmental clearance or, I don't know, some other clearance?
Looking at the way we are getting the approvals, I think we are quite confident at least two out of the three projects we should be able to launch in the FY 2022.
Okay, sir. That was very helpful and all the best.
Thank you so much, Adhidev .
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Parvez Akhtar Qazi from Edelweiss Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi. Good afternoon, sir, and thanks for taking my question. A couple of questions from my side. First, if you could update us about the status of these two commercial projects in BKC. Second, also, in terms of value, what is the inventory that is with us in ODC and Naigaon?
Parvez, hi. This is Prashant Chaubey. Both the BKC Junction commercial projects, the construction work is moving in full swing, and hopefully in the next 12 months-18 months, we'll be able to complete both these projects and also derive the sales out of it. That is the status on Sunteck BKC 51 and Sunteck ICON. Parvez,
As far as the launch projects that we have done in ODC and Naigaon, as sir has already pointed out, in Naigaon, out of 4,800 units, we have already sold 4,100 units. 85% of the units have already been sold, and now the collection is on as the construction is moving forward. In fact, Sunteck WestWorld, as we receive OC, there will be significant collections, which will be coming into the company from the sales already done.
For ODC, Sunteck City Avenue One, Avenue Two, and Fourth Avenue projects have been launched. The total number of units is close to 1,675 units, and out of that, 1,000+ units have been sold. Balance 500-600 units can give me close to another INR 1,000 crores in the coming years as and when the sales are done.
That is the update that I can provide you right now. Construction, again, I want to highlight construction in all the three projects. That is, the two projects basically, Second Avenue and Fourth Avenue are moving in full swing.
When do we expect to complete ODC 2?
Sorry, which project you're talking?
Avenue Two.
Avenue Two, we are looking to deliver in next three to four months.
Sure. Lastly, when can we expect any further launch in ODC?
We will definitely looking at some launch because we want to do a big sale once again in this year. We can see that happening very soon, anytime.
Thank you. We would request the current participant to please come back in the question queue for any follow-up questions. The next question is from the line of Sameer Baisiwala from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.
Hi, thank you so much, and good evening, everyone. Is it possible for you to talk a bit about the new project acquisition? I think it's a great job done with Vasai, Vasind, et cetera, but what's the visibility going forward? Are you in discussions with quite a few, these are city center or more suburban? Just some color would be very useful.
Hi, good evening, Sameer. Obviously Vasai, Vasind and Borivali, SK Resorts, I think it is one of the very prime locations, and it gives almost like a INR 25,000 a square feet price in that micro-market. I think this is something which you will not get very easily in western suburbs. I think going forward, we are in talks with at least three to four.
We are actively negotiating the deals, and these are all across, I can say MMR region. This is not like only suburbs or distant suburbs. These are all obviously in MMR region, and these are some towards the city, some in western suburbs, and some in eastern suburbs.
Okay, great. Just on your unsold inventory in BKC, now that COVID is behind us and stock markets are doing well, which just means the wealth effect is good. Are you seeing a pickup in inquiries, in visits? Do you have some sort of order book or equivalent to say that now you can have a quicker turnover over there?
Yeah, we are pretty confident, Sameer. We know that we are all concerned about such a big inventory. We are all looking forward and putting our best foot forward to see that this can be exhausted ASAP.
Okay, great. Just for the 2 BKC Junction commercial projects.
Yes.
Is it too premature to start the conversations on the sale? I think it's on the sale model. Is it strata-based or is it one or two large people who you'll sell it down to? Is it premature for that discussion and you'll be looking to do it later or any visibility on the demand over there?
Definitely we are just waiting for this COVID to stabilize or just another three to six months because at least the project is ahead for at least 12-18 months to complete the projects, both the projects at BKC Junction. We are looking three months, four months from now where we have all the options open.
We are not rigid on that we want to sell it, or we just don't want to lease it, or we can lease it, we don't want to sell it. We are open to all the options. Whichever gives the best value to the company, we will be opting for that.
Thank you. A reminder to the participants, anyone who wishes to ask a question, may press star and one now. The next question is from the line of Pritesh Sheth from Edelweiss Wealth. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for the follow-up, Pritesh Sheth. Just again on your launch pipeline. When you plan your next phase of ODC and Naigaon project and considering how the raw material prices have increased, are you planning to take any price hike across both these projects?
Pritesh, basically, the prices have only firmed up in last three to six months. We all know that prices have only firmed up. Fortunately, in Bombay, we are only operating in MMR regions, where our average selling price is not less than INR 15,000-INR 16,000 a square feet. The raw material prices, which is steel and cement, which is negligible in terms of the entire real estate value.
It is not that if you're selling a INR 5,000, INR 6,000 product and where your construction cost is itself INR 2,000 a square feet. In fact, I have made clear in my opening remarks that, in fact, our EBITDA margin, what we are looking at last few years to 25%.
Just quickly back on this one.
We will be looking at 35%, our EBITDA margin at 35%. We are not worried about the small rise in the price. Also the measures which has been taken, I think, during the COVID to cut down the cost and strongly manage the cost of the tools, I think that will pay a lot in offsetting the rise in steel and cement price.
Okay. Just one clarification. In your current presentation slide, just hold on, slide 31, where you mentioned that your finished inventory for Signature Island, Isles and Pearl BKC. Sorry, I got that. I think that is from my side. Sorry.
Okay, great. Thank you, Pritesh.
No problem. Yeah.
Thank you. That was our last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Kamal Khetan, Chairman and Managing Director for closing comments.
Thank you all for taking out the time from your busy schedules today. In case if any of your queries have been unanswered, you can get in touch with me or my team. We look forward to your continued support. Thank you once again for joining us today, and please be safe. Thank you once again.
Thank you. On behalf of Sunteck Realty, that concludes this conference.